"Kudos to the aforementioned Washington Post for writing a fair story, even though editors apparently couldn't bear to see the word "pro-life" in the headline,"

Journalists have this little thing called AP Style. Each press has it's own version of AP Style. AP Style dictates how words are used in the press. Some presses don't like terms like "pro-life" and "pro-choice" because not all readers can relate to them and they give off a connotation that the press may not want to give, considering they're trying to be fair and unbiased.

It does NOT mean the Washington Post is liberal. It means they are adhering to their style requirements and not giving into the two-sided BS this whole argument has created.

If you're okay with calling pro-choice people "pro-abortion" I don't see how you can object to the Post saying "antiabortion" instead of "Prolife."

For what it's worth, I think the school was wrong to stop the club from forming.

hal, thank you for throwin us a bone!:}

At least the WP didn't say "anti-choice"!

I am glad the school finally decided to do the right thing.

Edyt said, "It does NOT mean the Washington Post is liberal. It means they are adhering to their style requirements and not giving into the two-sided BS this whole argument has created."

Just how would it be giving in to anything by calling a club by its real name?

Hey GREAT!
Just because teen motherhood is a disaster for young women, their children, and our country doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage them to whelp!
An infant is 8 times more likely to be murdered if the mother is a High School drop-out than if Mom has a college degree.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From a teen motherhood website:

Teen pregnancy is bad for the mother...

Future prospects for teenagers decline significantly if they have a baby. Teen mothers are less likely to complete school and more likely to be single parents. Less than one-third of teens who begin their families before age 18 ever earn a high school diploma. Only 1.5% earn a college degree by the age of 30.4

There are serious health risks for adolescents who have babies. Common medical problems among adolescent mothers include poor weight gain, pregnancy-induced hypertension, anemia, sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), and cephalopelvic disproportion. Later in life, adolescent mothers tend to be at greater risk for obesity and hypertension than women who were not teenagers when they had their first child.5

Teen pregnancy is closely linked to poverty and single parenthood. A 1990 study showed that almost one-half of all teenage mothers and over three-quarters of unmarried teen mothers began receiving welfare within five years of the birth of their first child.6 The growth in single-parent families remains the single most important reason for increased poverty among children over the last twenty years, as documented in the 1998 Economic Report of the President. Out-of-wedlock childbearing (as opposed to divorce) is currently the driving force behind the growth in the number of single parents, and half of first out-of-wedlock births are to teens.7 Therefore, reducing teen pregnancy and child-bearing is an obvious place to anchor serious efforts to reduce poverty in future generations.

Teen pregnancy is bad for the child...
Children born to teen mothers suffer from higher rates of low birth weight and related health problems. The proportion of babies with low birth weights born to teens is 21 percent higher than the proportion for mothers age 20-24.8 Low birth weight raises the probabilities of infant death, blindness, deafness, chronic respiratory problems, mental retardation, mental illness, and cerebral palsy. In addition, low birth weight doubles the chances that a child will later be diagnosed as having dyslexia, hyperactivity, or another disability.4

Children of teens often have insufficient health care. Despite having more health problems than the children of older mothers, the children of teen mothers receive less medical care and treatment. In his or her first 14 years, the average child of a teen mother visits a physician and other medical providers an average of 3.8 times per year, compared with 4.3 times for a child of older childbearers.4 And when they do visit medical providers, more of the expenses they incur are paid by others in society. One recent study suggested that the medical expenses paid by society would be reduced dramatically if teenage mothers were to wait until they were older to have their first child.4

Children of teen mothers often receive inadequate parenting. Children born to teen mothers are at higher risk of poor parenting because their mothers - and often their fathers as well - are typically too young to master the demanding job of being a parent. Still growing and developing themselves, teen mothers are often unable to provide the kind of environment that infants and very young children require for optimal development. Recent research, for example, has clarified the critical importance of sensitive parenting and early cognitive stimulation for adequate brain development.4 Given the importance of careful nuturing and stimulation in the first three years of life, the burden born by babies with parents who are too young to be in this role is especially great.

Children with adolescent parents often fall victim to abuse and neglect. A recent analysis found that there are 110 reported incidents of abuse and neglect per 1,000 families headed by a young teen mother. By contrast, in families where the mothers delay childbearing until their early twenties, the rate is less than half this level - or 51 incidents per 1,000 families.4 Similarly, rates of foster care placement are significantly higher for children whose mothers are under 18. In fact, over half of foster care placements of children with these young mothers could be averted by delaying child-bearing, thereby saving taxpayers nearly $1 billion annually in foster care costs alone.4

Children of teenagers often suffer from poor school performance. Children of teens are 50 percent more likely to repeat a grade; they perform much worse on standardized tests; and ultimately they are less likely to complete high school than if their mothers had delayed childbearing.6

And bad for us all...

The U.S. still leads the fully industrialized world in teen pregnancy and birth rates - by a wide margin. In fact, the U.S. rates are nearly double Great Britain's, at least four times those of France and Germany, and more than ten times that of Japan.3

Teen pregnancy costs society billions of dollars a year. There are nearly half a million children born to teen mothers each year. Most of these mothers are unmarried, and many will end up poor and on welfare. Each year the federal government alone spends about $9 billion to help families that began with a teenage birth.10

Teen pregnancy hurts the business community's "bottom line." Too many children start school unprepared to learn, and teachers are overwhelmed trying to deal with problems that start in the home. Forty-five percent of first births in the United States are to women who are either unmarried, teenagers, or lacking a high school degree, which means that too many children - tomorrow's workers - are born into families that are not prepared to help them succeed.6 In addition, teen mothers often do not finish high school themselves. It's not easy for a teen to learn work skills and be a dependable employee while caring for children.

A new crop of kids becomes teenagers each year. This means that prevention efforts must be constantly renewed and reinvented. And between 1995 and 2010, the number of girls aged 15-19 is projected to increase by 2.2 million.6

It does NOT mean the Washington Post is liberal.

No, it means the associated press is liberal.

They refer to pro-choicers as "pro-abortion rights" and pro-lifers as "anti-abortion rights" conceding that abortion is some sort of right and that we oppose rights. If they called us "Pro-Right to Life" people, it'd be more balanced.

Just because teen motherhood is a disaster for young women, their children, and our country doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage them to whelp!

We're not pro-teen motherhood. We encourage them not to create babies in the first place. You, however, encourage them to kill already created babies and continue their baby-creating unchecked.

PL Laura -

HI - Where have you been my friend? I haven't seen you at PP and hope everything is alright. Miss seeing you.

Anyway good point. Don't you just love semantics? :)

From The Crisis in Teen Motherhood:

Babies of teen mothers have 21% higher probability of low birth weight, increasing possibilities for infant death, blindness, deafness, chronic respiratory problems, mental retardation, mental illness, and cerebral palsy. It doubles chances for dyslexia, hyperactivity, and other disabilities.1

Teen mothers start parenthood with few viable economic skills. Forty-one percent of mothers under 18 finish high school, compared to 61% of 20- to 21-year-old first mothers. A scant 1.5% of teen mothers earn a college degree by age 30.1

Making matters worse, in the past 25 years, the median income for college graduates increased 13%, while the median income for high school dropouts decreased 30%.1

Frighteningly, babies of high school dropouts have an eight times higher risk of being killed than those of college graduates.3

Teen mothers are mostly single parents. Eighty percent of fathers do not marry mothers and pay less than $800 annually in child support, important income for poor children.

Children living apart from fathers are five times more likely to be poor than children from two-parent homes. Children of uninvolved fathers are twice as likely to drop out of school, abuse alcohol or drugs or go to jail, and four times more likely to need help for emotional or behavioral problems.1

So, if teen mothers have no functional family of origin, no “village” to rely on, all parenting responsibilities fall on young girls who received little nurturing themselves. It’s no surprise they turn to welfare. One-half of all teen mothers and more than three-quarters of unmarried teen mothers receive welfare within five years of their first child’s birth.1

While on paper, married, two-parent families sound like stabilizing alternatives, chances of marital success are slim. Only 30% of married teen mothers stay married. Teen marriages are twice as likely to fail as marriages in which the woman is at least 25 years old.1 Plus, studies of welfare mothers suggest some teen moms may be better off unmarried for safety reasons. According to Esta Soler, president of the Family Violence Prevention Fund, “Studies consistently show that at least 50% to 60% of women receiving welfare have experienced physical abuse by an intimate partner…compared to 22% of the general population… A significant number of women receiving welfare also report a history of physical and sexual abuse in childhood.” In a California study, some recipients report lifetime abuse rates of 80% to 83%.4

While the absence of a caring father has profound consequences for children, the presence of an abusive one may be a matter of life or death. All of these factors take a toll on children. Teen parents are twice as likely as older parents to abuse or neglect their children.5 In reported incidents of abuse and neglect, 100 per 1,000 were families headed by teen mothers. The rate is less than half in families with new mothers in their 20s: 51 incidents per 1,000 families.1 Foster care placement is also significantly higher for children of teen mothers.1

Children of teenagers, then, come to school with baggage and consequently perform poorly. They are 50% more likely to repeat a grade, do worse on standardized tests, and are less likely to complete high school than if their mothers had delayed childbearing. Sons of teen mothers are 13% more likely to end up in prison; daughters, 22% more likely to also become teen mothers.1

But dismal statistics do not account for intangibles: persistent mother love, “villages” of grandmothers, caring teachers and teen moms in school, trying to graduate. If we as educators can help keep the mothers strong, I have better hopes that their children may thrive.

Sources:

National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy. www.teenpregnancy.org

“What to Do with Those Teenage Mothers,” Kathleen Sylvester. www.ppionline.org

“A Horror Called 'Neonaticide'," Charles Downey. http://sks.sirs.com

Testimony, Family Violence Prevention Fund, Esta Soler. http://endabuse.org

University of Georgia. www.county.ces.uga.edu
Posted April 1, 2005

I'm putting on my business analyst hat for a second and go into RCA-mode (root cause analysis):

So, Laura, considering ALL of the negative effects on the problem of teen pregnancy that you have outlined, What is the actual ROOT CAUSE of all this pregnancy and what is the suggested solution?

Laura,

I got pregnant at 19...does that mean I am included in those teen pregnancy statistics? Because while being a teenager..I also HAPPEN to be a legal adult. Do those teen statistics include 18 and 19 year olds? Just curious...

Hey Tara! I haven't been up there in a week...everything is just fine...how about w/you?

So, Laura, considering ALL of the negative effects on the problem of teen pregnancy that you have outlined, What is the actual ROOT CAUSE of all this pregnancy and what is the suggested solution?

Posted by: RSD at November 8, 2007 9:31 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have no clue.
I'm the geek who didn't lose her virginity until my 21st birthday - and this was back when you could still have sex and NOT DIE.
The difference between the teen pregnancy rates between the US and all other industrialized nations has everything to do with education and access to contraceptives. European teens are at least as sexually active as American teens, but they have a tiny fraction of out teen pregnancy, STD, and abortion rates.
(I am one of five daughters. My father had a brilliant idea for the "Norplant dart gun," but he never realized the dream...)

So, Laura, considering ALL of the negative effects on the problem of teen pregnancy that you have outlined, What is the actual ROOT CAUSE of all this pregnancy and what is the suggested solution?

Posted by: RSD at November 8, 2007 9:31 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have no clue.

Posted by: Laura at November 8, 2007 9:49 AM
------------------------------------------

From a purely objective point of view (no religion, no politics)...

The root cause is : Teen SEX ...Stop teen sex and you Stop teen pregnancy.

Some people will argue the current sex education is not effective or teens are using BC's wrongly or are using defective BC's etc..etc....These are SYMPTOMS of the problem.

The problem of Teen sex is that the root of the problem is NOT being tackled head-on. People are just focusing on "quick fixes" to the symptoms.

If people really want to solve this problem, stop it at the source!!

...removing business analyst hat....

RSD,
What do you think is the source?

Something like this happened at my school- except they started pulling that 'must be related to the curriculum' crap as soon as we formed our GSA club. To be honest, I don't care what kind of clubs for at a school as long as they are open to having clubs opposing or related to it. For example, we had the Young Republicans and the Young Democrats. I'm sure that this will encourage the more liberal students to form a counter-group. If they had formed the Pro-Choice group before the Pro-Life group, would you have been so up in arms?

Funny, teens in other industrialized nations are every bit as sexually active as American teens, and they rarely get knocked up. They also have MUCH lower STD and abortion rates.

Laura,

You're talking about 'minimizing' the problem...not Solving the problem.

Laura,

You're talking about 'minimizing' the problem...not Solving the problem.

Posted by: RSD at November 8, 2007 10:16 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah! You just go tell teens not to have sex. That will solve the problem!
Those abstinence-only programs have been a HUGE waste of time and resources - not to mention a stunning failure - but I'm sure that your plan will work JUST FINE!

... and they [teens in other industrialized nations] rarely get knocked up

I wouldn't make that statement without first defining what knocked up is. Let�s call knocked up - pregnant (at the point of conception.) Then consider the following: when did the other "other industrialized nations" begin promoting the morning after and the abortion pills over the counter? (a long time ago) Now, these women are knocked up (pregnant) when they are taking the pill, however, this dirty little statistic is not reported anywhere, nor is their pregnancy visible to anyone, nor is this reported.

when did the other "other industrialized nations" begin promoting the morning after and the abortion pills over the counter?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The morning-after pill is a contraceptive, and RU-486 isn't available over the counter.

"Yeah! You just go tell teens not to have sex. That will solve the problem!
Those abstinence-only programs have been a HUGE waste of time and resources - not to mention a stunning failure - but I'm sure that your plan will work JUST FINE "
-------------------------------------

Laura, Abstinence is a wonderful solution to the problem. The problem is NOT in the solution per se, but in the EXECUTION of that solution by the target audience/ participants.

Just because the teens refused to abstain cuz it's too difficult to contain their raging hormones OR that they are NOT getting proper instruction on it is no way related to the effectivenss of the solution.

and oh...teens that I know are getting smart and are not buying into the "they're going to do it anyway, so let's give them condoms" mentality...

I call this the "pet" mentality...rather than neuter the kids, we'll just give them BC's cuz they can't use their God-given brains and rational to decide for themselves.

Man...you're setting very low expectations on these teens...they're capable of so much more.

"we'll just give them BC's cuz they can't use their God-given brains and rational to decide for themselves."

RSD, it might be that the teens are using their "god-given brains and rational" to decide sex is a good decision for them. They might know better than you what is right for their life. As you noted, Teens are smart.

Yeah, you just go tell those 10 year olds not to have pleasure from those organs designed for pleasure, Laura. In fact, you tell those 7 year olds not to have pleasure by organs designed for pleasure! Yeah, you go tell them Laura not to have pleaure Laura. Who are you to decide what age a person can't have pleasure from organs designed for pleasure. And if you decide a age which others may not have pleasure from organs designed for pleasure, isn't that againest choice.
Aren't you for decision making(choice) of others(8 year old), having the right to make a decision by not being controlled by outside forces(autonomy)? Which means Laura, by your own principle of so called pro choice, you should and cannot influence or control the decision of a 8year old from doing what is natural, which is seeking pleasure from organs designed for pleasure. No wonder child molesters are increasing in numbers, they think like Laura thinks. In fact, children who are influenced by Laura, and we know she preaches for pleasure being natural, become child molesters from having their autonomy affected by Laura. Good job Laura.

Hal,

Sex IS good...as it was a gift from God. But with the gift comes Responsibility.

I don't think teens have enough of that at that age. Hey, it's not just me..check out how high the insurance rate is for teenage drivers.
Why do you think we have parental notification laws?

"Teens are smart"..sure, I agree but they do not have the benefit of experience and maturity, yet...and being pregnant at that tender age is a hell of a way to get that. (Check out Laura's list on the negative effects of teen pregnancy)

Wow. I think Yllas may be crazy Jentito.

(I wish she'd use my name a few more times...)

Oh, Laura, your principle of allowing others not to be controlled by outside forces(autonomy) when they make a decision, from a choice, is actually what makes you a crazy hypocrite to your principle of choice and autonomy.
Let me go slow Laura for your mind is lacking reason.
Ready Laura?
Question one. Is pleasure natural? Yes or no.
Question two. Is it not your principle that you are for the selection of alternatives and deciding to pick one of those alternatives, as a decision, which is the dictionanry definition of choose? Yes or no.
Question three. Are you pro autonomy? Not controlled by others or outside forces.2 independent in mind or,judgement;self directed.
That Laura is the dictionary definition of autonomy. Yes or no.Please use your humpty dumpty definitions if you choose Laura, as long as definitions are accurate and agreed upon. Simple questions, Laura. Only a crazy person would not answer those three simple questions from being crazy from propaganda being truth to you Laura.

Laura,

You wrote,
Funny, teens in other industrialized nations are every bit as sexually active as American teens, and they rarely get knocked up. They also have MUCH lower STD and abortion rates.

Posted by: Laura at November 8, 2007 10:14 AM

The rates went up after the emergency contraceptive was made available.

"As a word of extreme caution, it may be recalled that after Sweden introduced liberalized distribution of the morning-after pill in 1995, teen abortions rose an epidemic 32% between 1995 and 2001. As reported by a researcher at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, "Teenage abortion rates have gone up, from 17/1000 in 1995 to 22.5/1000 in 2001. Genital chlamydial infections have increased from 14,000 cases in 1994 to 22,263 cases in 2001, 60% occurring among young people, and with the steepest increase among teenagers." [Footnote 6: Edgardh, K. Adolescent sexual health in Sweden. Sex Transm Infect. 2002;78:352-356. Online at: http://sti.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/78/5/352]

in the five years following a Washington State pilot program to provide OTC MAP, teenage women showed a 23% increase in chlamydia infections. (Sexually Transmitted Disease Morbidity, Washington, State, Infection, Disease, and Reproductive Health, STD/TB Services & IDRH Assessment Unit, Washington State Dept. of Health 1997, available at http://www.doh.wa.gov.cfg.STD/mobidity.htm.)

these increases may well be associated with the increased and unprotected sexual activity facilitated by OTC MAP. Chlamydia causes infertility in a quarter of women and can reduce men's chances of becoming a father by 33%. As untreated chlamydia is a major cause for infertility, the availability of MAP OTC could lead to many women, especially teens, becoming infertile after several years of untreated and asymptomatic chlamydia. Plan B offers no protection against STDs. In the UK where EC has been OTC for five years, figures show that over the past four years there has been a 76% increase in chlamydia diagnoses, a 55% increase in gonorrhea, a 54% increase in syphilis, and a 20% increase in genital warts. In all of these infections, the highest rates and the fastest increases were found in the 16-24 age group. (The Observer, May 15,2005,

In Sweden, teenage pregnancies declined from 1975-l 985; abortions decreased as well. However, in the late 1980s, abortions increased. A changing pattern of contraceptive use was discussed as a contributing factor (e.g., less use of oral contraceptives due to fear of adverse effects). Since then, subsidies for oral contraceptives have emerged, and emergency hormonal contraception has become easily available. In spite of these factors, teenage abortion rates have been increasing, from 17/1000 in 1995 to 22.5/1000 in 2001. Furthermore, widespread availability of sexual education, contraception, and abortion services does not protect teenagers from STDs, pregnancy, and sexual victimization. (K. Edgardh, Adolescent Sexual Health in Sweden, Sexually Transmitted Infections: 2002; 78:352-356.) AAPLOG notes that in the 5 years following non-prescription EC availability, Sweden experienced a 31% increase in teen abortion. (K. Edgardh, Adolescent Sexual Health in Sweden, Sexually Transmitted Infections, 2002,78: 352-356.)

A Swedish study assessing the short- and long- term risk of unintended pregnancy in women receiving emergency contraception (and contraceptive counseling) found that in a long-term follow up, 10 of 134 women experienced an unplanned pregnancy, 9 of which resulted in abortions. All these women had either started and terminated oral contraceptives or had never commenced the prescribed oral contraceptives.. The study concluded that women who request emergency contraception are, despite a planned follow-up with contraceptive counseling, a high risk group for new unintended pregnancies. (Falk, G. et al, Young Women Requesting Emergency Contraception Are, Despite Contraceptive Counseling, a High Risk Group for New Unintended Pregnancies, Contraception, 64(1):23-27 (July 2001)).

(I wish she'd use my name a few more times...)

Posted by: Laura at November 8, 2007 11:23 AM************************************************************************************************ She did!

Oh GAWD...

The repetitive use of expression. The private conversation where she asks herself questions and then answers them.
She's off her medication again. Damn.

Three simple questions Lunatic Laura. All yes or no.

Out of the asylum and off her medication.

Laura,

Please note that each the references are from a peer reviewed journals or gov't agency.

Each emphasizes the ineffectiveness of contraception and emergency contraception. Each emphasizes the increase in pregnancies. abortions and STDs.

The complaint against abstinence education is that it does not decrease sexual activity and related hazards.

However, the complaint against contraception education is that it increases sexual activity and related hazards.

However, the complaint against contraception education is that it increases sexual activity and related hazards.

Posted by: hippie at November 8, 2007 12:16 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hippie, this is one time when I'm willing to admit that I don't have an answer.
I am continually STUNNED at the number of 15-16 year-olds who get pregnant intentionally. (After all, you can get as much as SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS A MONTH FOR THAT!)
Are you familliar with that "Baby Think About It" doll? The computerized one that acts like a real infant? Almost 30% of the girls who had Baby Think About It for more than four days ended up abusing and/or neglecting their plastic child.
I think that maybe if teens had a better clue about the realites of parenthood, they might make better choices.
Maybe if they knew that stress, isolation, and financial diffculties were standard they might think twice.
When I talk to teens I always get the feeling that they see motherhood in terms of baby showers, familial attention, and, of course, the baby daddy who is going to straighten out, become responsible, and love mommy and baby FOREVER! (We both know how well THAT turns out...)

Laura,

A friend of mine wrote her Phd. in hospital administration on teen motherhood. Her point was that these women use the baby as a way to get out of a situation (school) where they don't feel successful and into a situation in which they perceive they will be more successful.

Perception is generally more persuasive than reality.

I agree with you hippie.

Prochoiceamerica.org has conducted their state by state review of women's access to (so called) healthcare services. In their review they looked at the following metrics to determine the grade: state legislation affecting "choice", access to birth control, insurance coverage for contraception, access to abortion, etc. Each state is then given a grade. Those states with the greatest access to services receive high grades while those that don't receive low ones. Care to guess which States earned the highest marks? (hint: New York and California) You can check this for yourself by going here. So, if we agree to Laura's postulate, that greater access to "choice" and birth control reduces abortions — then let's compare the abortion rates of these states against those which have a grade of "F" - let's say Kentucky. Please take a look at this page - showing abortion data by state. (Please note the section titled - abortions by residents, in/out of state - and the definition therein) Then note the abortion rate of in state abortions for New York (32.0) and then look at Kentucky (6.3).

Based on this empirical data, I find it difficult to believe that greater access to "choice" and birth control leads to less unwanted and terminated pregnancies. Now, wouldn't you agree?

Laura just can't help herself. She admits to herself she that she doesn't have an answer. Then goes on and has a conversation about plastic dolls being abused, realties of parenthood,finace, showers, baby daddy, being STUNNED, SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS A MONTH.
Take a chill pill Laura, your mania is overcoming your depressive personality.

Still waiting on a answer to those three simple questions to ya, lamia Laura.

Based on this empirical data, I find it difficult to believe that greater access to "choice" and birth control leads to less unwanted and terminated pregnancies. Now, wouldn't you agree?

Posted by: Charles at November 8, 2007 12:48 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Charles, you just pointed to the problem.
A lot of those girls don't access birth control or abortion because they WANT to get pregnant. They're not having "unwanted" pregnancies.

The whole thing mystifies me.
Maybe it's because I cared for younger siblings and nieces, and babysat A LOT. I had a clue about the effort, expence, and the endless patience it takes to be a good parent to tiny children.

expence
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Should be "expense." I'm having a dyslexic day.

Why don't we say Anti-Life? It's the opposite of Anti-Abortion.

Here's why the headline and the AP guide are wrong: The club is about more than abortion. It's also to fight euthanasia and the dismissal of the elderly and handicapped as unproductive members of society.

If the only topic the club focuses on is abortion, then yes, it is anti-abortion. But that's not the sole focus, as the article itself admits.

I think Charles point was despite the lack of contraceptive education and access in KY, their teen pregnancy and abortion rate was lower than in NY.

Did you influence the autonomy of your nieces and siblings Laura? Did you tell them that sex is natural and that those organs between their legs are designed for pleasure? Just as their taste buds are. If you interfered with their natural desire for pleasure, you have broken your principle of autonomy, their independence of mind, and self direction, which allows choice to be valued by the siblings and nieces.

You are Jentito, aren't you?

Yeah! You just go tell teens not to have sex. That will solve the problem!

It's insulting that you'd think kids are incapable of making good choices. We tell kids to just say no to drugs and alcohol, but when we suggest saying no to sex, you scoff and insist that no one can do that. I beg to differ- You didn't have sex until you were 21.

And those of my friends that are abstinent are mocked by you, called "about like the guy in the 'leave britney alone' video." And you also call us "as interesting as dry toast."

You also love to mock my virginity and say that my thoughts are invalid because of it (as if having sex is the beginning of all wisdom).

So we make positive choices, don't end up as teen parents and YOU MOCK US.

Perhaps it's you that's the problem, Laura! You and your pervasive, "no-one-has-self-control" ideology.

CALM People!!

I'm calm.

Still waiting lamia Laura, three simple questions. Easy yes or no answers, which any person should be able to answer. Especially one who is for choice and autonomy.
Should I ask one question at a time lamia Laura?
At what age should you break your principle of autonomy for others, Laura, and influence a child about the fact that those organs between their legs is designed for pleasure? This is more complicated then a simple yes or no answer lamia Laura, but knowing your intellectual prowness, it should be easy to answer.

hmmmm, I think they were designed for reproduction, but people have decided to use them for pleasure more than for reproduction (and I am PC)...

Just my opinion...

I think Charles point was despite the lack of contraceptive education and access in KY, their teen pregnancy and abortion rate was lower than in NY.

Posted by: hippie at November 8, 2007 1:18 PM

Thanks hippie, that was exactly my point.

The purpose of the organs of reproduction is for pleasure, when one uses methods to avoid their purpose. Reason does not deny the truth of purpose. Pleasure denys the purpose, and 99.9% of the time it is pleasure which is the reason for using those organs. Or you make up a percentage.
The reason for those organs is forgotten, diminished, in the back of the mind, and by the time a person has been influenced by Laura preaching sexual pleasure is natural, you are a victim of Laura at a abortion clinic.
Take Erin, a pure preacher for pleasure as being the reason for those organs. Ask Erin, about masturbation. Erin is pro masturbation as soon as a person can masturbate, since it makes the reason for those organs through pleasure become the reason for those organs. Who can deny it? But, that brings up a question for Erin.When do you affect the autonomy of a child and tell them the truth that pleasure is good and available from those organs Erin? Remember Erin, plesure is natural and designed into those organs for a purpose. What age masturbation, Erin?

what age masturbation??? any age.

why the hell not?

Hey Jentito-

Remember the time Planned Parenthood held your sister hostage for days and wouldn't let her go?

Another question for ya Laura.
Since sex is natural, as natural as eating, did you feed your siblings and nieces? Did you feed them food they enjoyed from their taste buds selecting from alternatives and making a decision(choice), by the pleasure of the taste for the food? Not affecting their autonomy and allowing them to decide what is tasty, which was driven by pleasure?. Well Laura, you were true to your principles of choice and autonomy. Congratulations.
Now Laura, about the naturalness of the pleasure of those other organs. Would you allow another person to reduce the autonomy of your siblings about those sex organs? If autonomy is to be reduced, why not you Laura, and not a stranger?
Who better to remove independence and influence choice/decision then you Laura, about those organs.
So Laura, being that those organs are natural, and that pleasure is natural from using those organs,at what age would you show them pictures,films, of those organs being used in a natural way? Or would you leave that up to a "pleasure educator" to show them that pleasure is natural from those organs.

Well Hal, would you reduce their autonomy by teaching them your choice for those organs? Are you for autonomy as a principle only for abortion? Becoming a master educator of masturbation of children is great Hal. By what methods are you going to reduce their autonomy and increase your choice for masturbation within the child? Shouldn't you being with your child first Hal, as being it is natural? And if not your child, how about a relatives child?

Where you at Hal? You said your for masturbation at any age. Practice what you preach Hal. Which child have you influenced to masturbate Hal? What child have you educated about masturbation being natural for children? Masturbation at any age Hal, that's your statement Hal. Preachy but no practice of showing children masturbation methods, Hal?

I don't mean this in any bad way, Yllas, but most children discover masturbation on their own. Many child psychologists find it to be normal in the physical and mental development of children. There's not really a reason to encourage it when it is part of normal development for some kids. Just saying my two cents.

No they don't, people such as Hal teach them. It is also one of the signs of sexual child abuse in children if they're masturbating. Hal stated, masturbation at any age.
Who you think your kidding Lyssie?
I am going to leave your statement about "no real reason for encouraging it" because that statement is no real reason of a mind that has thought about the results of that thought.

"Becoming a master educator of masturbation of children is great Hal."

I don't think children need instruction, dear yllas, I meant by "any age," simply any age they want. Some are very young, so are less very young. But it's not something to discourage. Lyssie is right, it's normal human behavior. And, something we should all be able to agree on, since it does not lead to unwanted pregnancies or abortion.

what's your problem anyway?

This is a good example of "I can understand being aginst abortion, but the other stuff you guys believe is a bit [insert kind but disapproving adjective here]."

So, Laura, considering ALL of the negative effects on the problem of teen pregnancy that you have outlined, What is the actual ROOT CAUSE of all this pregnancy and what is the suggested solution?

Posted by: RSD at November 8, 2007 9:31 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have no clue.

Posted by: Laura at November 8, 2007 9:49 AM
------------------------------------------

From a purely objective point of view (no religion, no politics)...

The root cause is : Teen SEX ...Stop teen sex and you Stop teen pregnancy.

Some people will argue the current sex education is not effective or teens are using BC's wrongly or are using defective BC's etc..etc....These are SYMPTOMS of the problem.

The problem of Teen sex is that the root of the problem is NOT being tackled head-on. People are just focusing on "quick fixes" to the symptoms.

If people really want to solve this problem, stop it at the source!!

...removing business analyst hat....

Posted by: RSD at November 8, 2007 10:03 AM
.............................................

Good luck! I was married at 18. Would you have wasted your breath attempting to badger me into celibacy until my 20th birthday? Married or not, I decide whether or not to have sex. I decide whether or not to gestate a pregnancy. Not a thing that you can do about it.

It does NOT mean the Washington Post is liberal.

No, it means the associated press is liberal.

They refer to pro-choicers as "pro-abortion rights" and pro-lifers as "anti-abortion rights" conceding that abortion is some sort of right and that we oppose rights. If they called us "Pro-Right to Life" people, it'd be more balanced.

Posted by: Jacqueline at November 8, 2007 9:22 AM
.....................................

Anti-rights is appropriate for your stance.

Yeah, you just go tell those 10 year olds not to have pleasure from those organs designed for pleasure, Laura. In fact, you tell those 7 year olds not to have pleasure by organs designed for pleasure! Yeah, you go tell them Laura not to have pleaure Laura. Who are you to decide what age a person can't have pleasure from organs designed for pleasure. And if you decide a age which others may not have pleasure from organs designed for pleasure, isn't that againest choice.
Aren't you for decision making(choice) of others(8 year old), having the right to make a decision by not being controlled by outside forces(autonomy)? Which means Laura, by your own principle of so called pro choice, you should and cannot influence or control the decision of a 8year old from doing what is natural, which is seeking pleasure from organs designed for pleasure. No wonder child molesters are increasing in numbers, they think like Laura thinks. In fact, children who are influenced by Laura, and we know she preaches for pleasure being natural, become child molesters from having their autonomy affected by Laura. Good job Laura.

Posted by: yllas at November 8, 2007 11:10 AM
...........................................

Since when are 8 year olds considered teens? Exactly how many 8 year olds do you fantasize are in the least bit interested in having sex let alone capable of becoming pregnant? If one should be impregnated are you actually advocating such 8 year old being forced to gestate? Talk about child abuse mentality.

Hey Jentito-

Remember the time Planned Parenthood held your sister hostage for days and wouldn't let her go?

Posted by: Laura at November 8, 2007 3:07 PM
...........................

Do do do do do.........hearing theme song from twilight zone. How did it end up here?

Well Hal, would you reduce their autonomy by teaching them your choice for those organs? Are you for autonomy as a principle only for abortion? Becoming a master educator of masturbation of children is great Hal. By what methods are you going to reduce their autonomy and increase your choice for masturbation within the child? Shouldn't you being with your child first Hal, as being it is natural? And if not your child, how about a relatives child?

Posted by: yllas at November 8, 2007 3:40 PM
......................................

You are flipping nuts. And obviously sexually obsessed with young children.

Sally, it's tough, cause I can even figure out what yllas is trying to say.

I am absolutely sure that "Yllas" is "Jentito," a trip-case from the AOL boards who once mentioned that she would refuse to take the medication for her schizophrenia when she wanted to punish her mother. Her stories are, well, fascinating...
A number of us have kept "Jentito's Greatest Hits" from the old board. Tell me that this isn't the same person":

"Yllas" today:
The purpose of the organs of reproduction is for pleasure, when one uses methods to avoid their purpose. Reason does not deny the truth of purpose. Pleasure denys the purpose, and 99.9% of the time it is pleasure which is the reason for using those organs. Or you make up a percentage.

"Jentito" from a year ago:
What I find interesting about the evolution theory, is that its a theory. Theories are not facts and one of the best know theories is cause the Circular Motion Theory. This is how "athiest" scientists date rocks. The rocks date the date, and date date the rocks. How can you date something if you don't know what date it is? Because they have rocks. Does anyone understand? Athiests as we know are very educated in this area. Maybe they could explain it to us?

Yllas, there's no reason to get up in arms over something that is known as fact. SOMETIMES, masturbation at a young age is indicative of molestation. Otherwise, it's normal behavior for some very young children. Touching and exploring body parts is a part of what young children do, without intending to be sexual. Why do you think little boys are always...well...for lack of a better term... "playing with it"? Hence the "do you think it's gonna fall off?" when parents are telling their child to stop fidgeting with his boy parts.
I don't mean that they realize they're masturbating or anything of the sort because someone taught them, I just meant to say that sometimes it just happens.

Your a lowly intellectual coward formed from being a propagandist lamia Laura.
Three questions, easily answered, lamia Laura.

Look its Sally the miracle worker of hot air ballons. Do you agree with Hal and his/her statment "masturbation at any age"? Yes or No Sally, the thinker of planned accidents is not a oxymornic statement.

Sally the hurtling person of planned accidents. Do you agree with giving birth control to 11 year olds? Yes or no Sally.

Look its Sally the miracle worker of hot air ballons. Do you agree with Hal and his/her statment "masturbation at any age"? Yes or No Sally, the thinker of planned accidents is not a oxymornic statement.

Posted by: yylas at November 8, 2007 11:53 PM

.....................

Take your meds fruitballoon. And get help for your obsession over little children and sexuality before you act upon it and get arrested.

Sally the hurtling person of planned accidents. Do you agree with giving birth control to 11 year olds? Yes or no Sally.

Posted by: yllas at November 9, 2007 12:01 AM
...............................

Duh! If that 11 year old was actually in need of it. Like some 11 year old married off to some freak obsessed with children and sex like you.

Do do do do do.........hearing theme song from twilight zone. How did it end up here?

Posted by: Sally at November 8, 2007 7:29 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

She haunts abortion-themed message boards. She also claims to be a nurse and a counselor for women with crisis pregnancies.

Sure Hal, your for masturbation at any age since it is natural. You and your fellow pro masturbation partners, Sally,Erin and that lamia Laura grew up masturbating before you knew the word masturbation existed, or the definition. Yes or no Hal? If you did know the definition of masturbation, then you were influenced by another and your independent judgement was reduced, your autonomy was reduced, to the opinion of another. Who told you, Hal? Did you keep your knowledge of pleasure from other children, as you did not want others to to know your knowledge of those organs between your legs, is for the pleasure within them.Yes or no Hal? Or did you influence the autonomy of others Hal by telling them your knowledge of those organs is for the pleasure contained within that organ? I think one can safely conclude you, Hal, influenced and advocated masturbation for others, from the day you found touching your organs designed with pleasure within those organs, since you still do today. All that remains, is to know the age you discovered your knowledge of using your will to self pleasure yourself, Hal. And when you told others your knowledge of the pleasure received from that organ, by using your will, for the natural good that comes from pleasure. Or, are we going to get a story of being a late bloomer, a dim wit, a slow mind of where pleasure can be attained for free from a part of Hal, a undeveloped hypothalamus, who did not masturbate early enough and now advocates "masturbation at any age", from making up for lost pleasure.

Remember Hal, you stated masturbation at any age. That statement means from birth to death.

Since you agree with 11 year olds using contraceptives, Sally the witness to the miracle of hot air ballons, rising while losing hot air, it is the outcome of your thinking that those organs have a design of pleasure within them. Congratulation Sally, another convert to using pleasure as it was designed to be used. How about a 10 year old Sally using that organ as it was designed to be used, which is to give pleasure? Yes or no Sally.

yllas, don't worry about Sally's insults. She's a 50 something year old woman who believes that Paris Hilton is actually jealous of her.....Yeah RIGHT!! LOL!

Only a true "fruit balloon" would believe that! Sally, didn't you say that Paris passed you at Caesar's Palace, and she looked like she was jealous of your balloon hat?

Still waiting lamia Laura to answer three simple questions. Typical propagandist, when confronted with a question that will progress your principles of pro choice and autonomy, you can't answer them. When asked about your practice of masturbation, by your mother, Laura, did you change the subject or accuse her of being Jentito?
Did you keep your knowledge of pleasure being designed into those organs from your siblings, from being selfish Laura? Or was it the other way around, and your siblings removed your autonomy about a organ of the body?
Dang, three questions for Laura. I predict classic agitational propaganda from Laura, begun in childhood, and still usd by Laura today,where the question is avoided, and "expressive words" are used without knowing the definitions.
In, three, two, one.

Sally, I think that Paris Hilton may have been looking at the sea of photographers, not your balloon hat.

Heather, Sally is challenged from acts of reality influencing her pursuit of pleasure. Next, thing ya know, Sally will be giving me a story about her ruff and tuff life, where she witnessed a hot air ballon "planned accident",which made her immediately come to this board and post about her visions of that hot air ballon "being a planned accident". In fact, Sally waited no more then a minute before thinking how to use a tragedy of a hot air ballon for her agitational propaganda.
I think she read about the accident and then thought it was a great agitational propaganda story, which Sally could use at this post board.
Hey Sally, how many post boards did you use your story, where you read about that hot air ballon "planned accident", and converted to progressing your propaganda stories?

yllas, Sally is mixed up!

Heather, Sally is typical propagandist, and her insults are unoriginal. I could courteously yield or submit to a original insult, but Sally is a cliche of thinking from a lack of intelligence. I guess Sally has never learned a new word since the 60's agitational propaganda was new and fresh. I have met hundreds of Sally's in my life, and their words are worn and tattered shreds of past desires and innocence lost cheaply for pleasure. To deny your past life is the beginning of personal hypocrisy which some can not face or admit. They grow old and become unable to accept change, such as a change in abortion laws, and is the result of their success of youthful desires to change the world. Sally cannot change, it is a rebuke of her youth and her inability to allow autonomy of those which come behind them. Sally is a rebuke of her youth and those parents of hers which allowed autonomy in Sally, but denies it for the next generation. She just can't see it though.

yllas: "Remember Hal, you stated masturbation at any age. That statement means from birth to death."

yes, of course, from birth to death. Why not?

Anti-rights is appropriate for your stance.

Pro-death is appropriate for your stance.

Hal,
Did you begin to practice masturbation before you knew, or were aware of the definition, of the word masturbation? Yes or no?
2.Did you begin the practice masturbation after you were aware of the definition, and understood the definition, of the word masturbation.Yes or no.
3. Do you understand the definition of autonomy? Yes or no? Please give me a definition so I may communicate with you Hal.
4. When you began to practice masturbation, did you explain the act, and define the act, to others?
5. What is the definition of child sexual abuse Hal? Do you accept the Medical Encyclopedia of Medline which states; Child sexual abuse is the deliberate exposure of a minor child to sexual activity.Yes or no
6. Is masturbation a sexual activity Hal? Yes or no.

Lyssie, there is a difference between "touching oneself in exploration", and a act of will/volition, which is directed to a purposeful end. Do you know the defintion of masturbation Lyssie?
But, again, Lyssie, if pleasure is designed within this one set of organs, on purpose,and pleasure is a natural action which enforces those actions, should you not encourage those actions which are harmless pleasure and release frustration? Yes or no Lyssie.

yllas, you forgot to call me a viceperson! I like to think that I earned that title! ^_^

Also I have minions now, muahaha.

Hey Hal,
If you were stranded on a island for for 6 months with the same sex, and the design of those sexual organs are made for pleasure, would you
1. masturbate
2. confirm the theory that you were born a homosexual and were hiding your homoseuxality from being homophobic
3. become chaste and deny your will to pleasure, which increased your frustration till you beat your same sex partner daily, to relief the amygdala of its excess neuronal discharges from being imbalanced.

yllas...What the h-e-double-hockey sticks are you talking about?

"to relief the amygdala of its excess neuronal discharges from being imbalanced"

WHAAAAAT?

Simply answer the questions Hal, or assume another personality, and answer those questions, Hal. Nothing personal, Hal. Put a "persona on", a mask, Hal, which can make your ideas for masturbation more complete then just "masturbating at any age".
Are you related to lamia Laura, who can't answer questions which move her ideas forward?
BTW, there are some more questions for ya, Hal.
Do you realize the depth of your homophobia Hal?

HOMOPHOBIA?

Take a glance at the gay-bashing political cartoons on the first thread. I'm pretty sure we aren't the homophobic ones.

How the hell do you get homophobia in any of my comments?
Is it possible to have a rational discussion with you?

I like the stranded on the island questions. Are those my only options?

Damn Erin, the hypocrite, the part of the brain which regulates anger(among other purposes). It works with the hypothalumus. Since Hal is getting frustrated from not having sex, his frustration is increasing his anger. Just like you Erin, when you don't masturbate, but preach for masturbation, hence the hypocrite included in your name Erin, you get angry and express your desire to murder a baby in the womb.
I have mercy for ya Erin. I am willing the true good for ya Erin, that is love Erin. Mercy is love shown to those who do not deserve to be loved, that don't have a claim on my love. Mercy is love shown to those who do not love. Get it Erin, or is your anger rising and increasing those neurotransmitters in your amygdala? You know what you need to do Erin when your amgydala is aroused Erin, practice a act of self love.

Yea Hal, you can begin by answering the questions about your being stranded on a island.
Or, go to those simple questions asked before your island experience made it known your homosexual traits were just 6 months in waiting.
Heck Hal, make that a month and answer those questions.

It's VICELORD Erin, damnit.

yllas, you make a lot of assumptions. Who says Erin and I are not having sex? (not together of course) I'm having the best sex of my life.

So, back to your fantasy: I'm on a island, for a month or six. There's another guy there. Is he good looking? Do we have wine? What the hell does this have to do with abortion? I guess I should be glad you didn't put me on an island with a child. Anyway, I don't want to beat him up daily. That sounds unnecessarily mean. I don't think I'd want to have sex with him, but that doesn't make me homophobic does it? I might maturbate, but if my life was in danger I might have other things on my mind. Does this help you understand anything? I have no idea what your point is.

Homosexuals state that a person is born homosexual, and one who hides his homosexuality is hiding his homosexuality from fear of being a homosexual. Homophobia, homophobic.
Therefore Hal is either going to masturbate on that island till his hand fall off, from being chaste, which leads to frustration and anger by being denying his natural needs for pleasure, or do what Hal knows is his true self, revealed by the reason that pleasure is designed within those organs, and share that pleasure with another. I think Hal will be selfish and not share pleasure with that same sex person,since Hal has practiced selfish acts since before he knew the definition. A true autonymous person.

...what the hell are you trying to say? I can't understand a word of it.

wow. Some people are born with a homosexual orientation, so for those people hiding their homosexualtiy is an issue. Not all people silly yllas. Many people are heterosexual. Some people are bi-sexual.

I think on the island I'd have other things to worry about, and wouldn't be masturbating so much my hand would fall off. You have some hang-ups about sex I think.

Congratulations Hal, your a bigot, a person who would not share your natural pleasure with another same sex person. Would you share you natural desire with a person of another sex on that island? Yes or no. Hal. Deny it all you want Hal, your a homophobic bigot Hal. Or a masturbating homophobic bigot who can not share those natural pleasures within those organs with the same sex person on that island.
And yes Hal, it has to with abortion, but I have to go slow with a person whose reason is devoted to really knowing those organs are for pleasure, first and foremost. See the picture yet Hal, you bigoted homophobe?

Ummm, what is heck is going on here?

Oh, BTW Hal, the island has plenty of food,water and a ideal climate, A Polynesian island.
And since you brought up children,Hal. Make the island experience with a 12 year old boy, who does not know the definition of masturbation. Since masturbation is natural and good Hal, and you do state that masturbation is for all ages Hal.
1. Do you allow autonomy of the 12 year old boy or whisper in his ear, Masturbation is natural and all ages should practice masturbation. You are pro masturbation, right Hal?

I'm in awe.

ok, i'm on this island, and it must be fantasy island because you think everyone is really excitable all the time. But what if the other guy doesn't want to "share my natural pleasure?" what am I supposed to do then?

Hal is having his philosophy about masturbation, being for any age, progressing towards its natural conclusions. On the way, I found out Hal will not share natural sexual pleasure with another person of the same sex. I think that is homophoobic.

If the other person does not want to share natural sexual pleasure with you Hal, you are on a Polynesian island with a bigot, a homosexual bigot, and you must educate him about his homophobia. Try telling him again your statement that masturbation is for all ages, and include all sexs. That should get him to think of his fear of same sex being wrong. Then, to clinch the bigot, tell him that sex is for pleasure again.

Do you deny Hal, the statement by leaders of the homosexual community, that homosexuals are born that way? By denying that statement Hal, your going againest the truth of those who know homosexuality better and more intimate, then you Hal. And you do know what they call people who deny their truth, that homosexuals are born homosexual? It starts with the letter, B. Sometimes they include another word also, which is phobia.

Ummm, what is heck is going on here?

------------------------------------

..beats me...

Yllas, why would anyone need to encourage a child to masturbate when those who do already know that it causes pleasure? Children who explore and discover this will eventually uses it as a means to an end, anyway, just as you stated. Personally, I don't care if there are children out there doing this, at least they aren't hurting themselves or others by doing so. I wouldn't encourage, as an adult, any child to behave in a sexual manner unto themselves, because as you said, it would translate into molestation. If they discover said sexual act on their own, fine, but I will neither encourage or discourage it (nor do I care to hear about it...it is not my business). If it doesn't hurt or affect the child or anyone else, I don't care what the child does. In regards to actual intercourse, children (at least older ones) need to realize that it affects another person (as well as themselves on a more profound level), and should be advised to take precautions about the consequences (I already said that abstinence should be emphasized and advocated ABOVE ALL to young people and teens, but children who are engaging in it already need to know how to lower the risks they are taking. That is NOT encouraging sex, however, because abstinence is pushed to minimize possible negative effects on other people as a result of the child's/teen's actions.) I start caring more about the issue when other people and negative consequences become involved. Children acting only on themselves, without involving anyone else and not hurting anyone else or themselves, need not be worried about or encouraged/discouraged to continue what they are doing. It is a neutral act. I don't need to worry about them if there will be no repercussions as a result of their actions, and I have no reason to care whether or not they discover their "organs of pleasure" as long as they don't hurt themselves in the process.

Lyssie,
You fancy yourself as being informed about children and sexuality, and truthfully your owned by pop psychology and psychiatry. Those so called sciences have never met enough sexual pleasure in any human being, and do not include the words wrong or right in their vocabulay. Your now needing to go on a inland trip with Hal, and discover your self with Hal.
But, since your being moderate about self love in children being natural and good for them, Chew on this. Masturbation is learned, and it is a learned act, because of pleasure being a principle reason for those organs, for the child, or a late bloomer? who has become a 13 year old, to this fact of life.
To avoid abortion, is it not more logical to seek the pleasure within those organs where that action will never occur? Yes or no. Lyssie.
Avoiding the classic dilemma of, if I do this, this action may end in a action which I did not intend, but is possible. A simple yes or no is all that is required Lyssie to the above question. Feel free to expand on your answer to the one question I asked Lyssie.

"To avoid abortion, is it not more logical to seek the pleasure within those organs where that action will never occur? Yes or no. Lyssie."

Can someone please translate this for me? The words appear to be English, but the meaning is lost on me completely.

Hal, how did you get mixed up in this whole conversation?

I Don't know Bobby, it seemed like a bit of harmless fun. But it spiraled out of control. Feel free to stop me sooner next time.

LOL, will do.

Poor Hal.
To make abortion impossible, and still enjoy/use/ the pleasure contained within the organs of reproduction, what acts should one practice to make abortion physically impossible?
This use of the organs, designed for pleasure, should be shared with another, in this case study of thinking about the pleasure purpose of sexual organs, Hal.
What options, are there, which leads to a decision of using the pleasure designed within the reproductive organs, that make abortion impossible Hal? You name them Hal.

Well Bobby, I am showing Hal, the great advocate for masturbation at any age, his philosophy being practiced in its most natural form.
Although Hal has not been able to see the connection to abortion yet, it begins with the masturbatory principles of Hal, which make children/teens know the reason for the sexual organs, is for the self pleasure contained within them. Practice makes perfect, right Hal?

Who wants to make abortion impossibe? You want to make unplanned pregnancies impossible? And you don't know what options there are for sexual pleasure without intercourse and you want me to make a list for you? I don't think so. I don't think Jill wants that list here, and I can't believe you couldn't come up with a list on your own.

If you really can't do it, send me your email and I'll email you a list.

Oh Hal, the logical conclusion for avoiding abortion by a women, is nothing nasty. Since your a pro masturbation philosopher, that knows the natural pleasure within those organs of reproduction is natural and good, the answer is, be a lesbian.
Is there any other reason for those organs which are designed for pleasure Hal? Give me another reason, and we can discuss it concerning abortion. You'll end up on that island again because of your principle of pleasure is the actual reason for those organs.

you've lost me. I can't be a lesbian. (Not that there's anything wrong with that) Sorry. Have a great weekend.

"To avoid abortion, is it not more logical to seek the pleasure within those organs where that action will never occur? Yes or no. Lyssie."

Yllas, I suppose my answer to your question would be "yes", if teens want to seek pleasure from their bodies without engaging in sex (which has the potential to harm others), I have no problem with them self-pleasuring. However, you told me I could also explain myself more fully on this stance- where I also feel that there is no need to advocate for masturbation. I never said that masturbation was a "good", I believe it is neutral in its effects on a young person. So I am neither for it nor against it. Furthermore, one can warn about the consequences of sex in young people by promoting abstinence above all and offering ways to reduce the effects of this risky behavior, WITHOUT advocating other sexual acts (like masturbation). It is no one's place to do so. I think advocating any type of sexual act is inappropriate for any adult to do toward a minor (even one where no one but the minor is involved). One would think that a minor with all the information about intercourse's effects (and seeks to refrain from it due to these possible consequences), who also knows that these organs cause pleasure, would, ON THEIR OWN, find the only route that allows them to enjoy said organs. I don't need to tell them about it, inform them on it, for them to find it if they REALLY want to seek pleasure. As I said, it is not my place. There is no need to advocate the act of masturbation, when some kids will come to the conclusion on their own. Also, Yllas, some kids, even when presented with the all possible consequences of sex, will still engage in it, while some will remain abstinent (and discover masturbation out of a desire to avoid sex yet still receive pleasure), and some will have no inclination toward any pleasure at all. I'm reasonable enough to admit that even with extraordinary emphasis on abstinence that some will ignore the message, while some will seek out a less risky alternative without prompting. There is no need to push the alternative, because kids who still want the pleasure can find it on their own.

The question was, to avoid abortion and make it impossible, while still using the organs of reproduction for their natural pleasure within them, was answered by becoming a lesbian.
Remember Hal, it was a question not directed at you, but a question directed to making abortion impossible and still use those organs for their pleasure within them with another person.
Being a lesbian, is the safest use, of using those organs for the pleasure within them, and eliminating the angst created by the side effects(this discussion board) of using those organs for the pleasure offered by those organs.
True or False, Hal.
BTW, Hal, I am 11 years old.

I don't believe you're 11, but I've decided to stop this conversation anyway, because I don't understand anything you're trying to say.

If the fault is mine, I'm sorry.

"I am 11 years old."

Really? You seem to know a lot for an 11 year old. Where are you from, Yllas?

Well Lysssie, since you said Yes, to my question, then being a lesbian is the most logical answer. Yes or no Lyssie? It makes abortion impossible from actions "which will never occur".

I am from the other side of the tracks from Sally.
Sally is backwards to me, and quite slow mentally from taking drugs that made her hallucinate.
Some say I am the ghost of Sally's past, who has been alife for 11 years.

Hmmm... not sure I follow...

you've lost me. I can't be a lesbian. (Not that there's anything wrong with that) Sorry. Have a great weekend.

Posted by: Hal at November 9, 2007 3:49 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wonder if Yllas is a lesbian.
I do know that she's opposed to dating rocks.

Hal,
Enjoy yourself Hal, and my communication with you has been enjoyable. I simply am using your masturbation principle as my logic. You end up on a island, trapped into a position I don't think you really wanted. Use it on a friend where you have more control over time and speed of communication. Say after your taste buds have tasted a few Buds or other suds!!!

Bobby, spell my name backwards, or Sally's backwards

Wow, I'm dumb! Okay, gotcha...

Yllas, how does it follow that if one wants to engage in pleasure without involving anyone else, that they should become lesbians? It does not logically follow from my argument...because engaging in what you would consider lesbianism actually DOES involve another person. I said I DO NOT advocate any sexual acts, nor do I suggest ways to engage in pleasure for young people. They'll figure it out on their own. I don't advocate heterosexual intercourse, so why would I advocate lesbian or gay sex acts? My premise is that if kids WANT to receive pleasure from sex organs without involving others, they will find a way to do it (i.e. masturbation). Your premise that advocating lesbianism does not follow the reasons I put forth earlier for warning against physical acts with another person-it can affect another person, which is why I said I would advocate against sex(heterosexual or homosexual) for young people.

Since you agree with 11 year olds using contraceptives, Sally the witness to the miracle of hot air ballons, rising while losing hot air, it is the outcome of your thinking that those organs have a design of pleasure within them. Congratulation Sally, another convert to using pleasure as it was designed to be used. How about a 10 year old Sally using that organ as it was designed to be used, which is to give pleasure? Yes or no Sally.

Posted by: yllas at November 9, 2007 1:46 AM
.......................................

I agree with 11 year olds being protected from the likes of you. Actually, I believe society might need protection from nut jobs like you. Are you one of the mentally ill rendered homeless by Regan politics? Yes or no?

yllas, don't worry about Sally's insults. She's a 50 something year old woman who believes that Paris Hilton is actually jealous of her.....Yeah RIGHT!! LOL!

Posted by: heather at November 9, 2007 2:10 AM
..............................

Poor thing you! Paris indeed looked like she wanted to join the fun of my daughter's wedding party. I turned 50 in July and look damn skippy. Of course the younger wedding party outshined me and her lonely self standing there all alone but surrounded by shopping bags. I saw a longing look in her eyes. She is a human being after all and it isn't impossible to look good at 50. Or have an amazingly beautiful daughter with lots of beautiful friends and family. You don't get out much do you.

Heather, Sally is challenged from acts of reality influencing her pursuit of pleasure. Next, thing ya know, Sally will be giving me a story about her ruff and tuff life, where she witnessed a hot air ballon "planned accident",which made her immediately come to this board and post about her visions of that hot air ballon "being a planned accident". In fact, Sally waited no more then a minute before thinking how to use a tragedy of a hot air ballon for her agitational propaganda.
I think she read about the accident and then thought it was a great agitational propaganda story, which Sally could use at this post board.
Hey Sally, how many post boards did you use your story, where you read about that hot air ballon "planned accident", and converted to progressing your propaganda stories?

Posted by: yllas at November 9, 2007 2:36 AM

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Take a deep breath fuzzyhead. The planned landing of the balloon was the cause of the accident. (Reading posts under the influence of heavy drug usage isn't your best friend).
Get your keeper to call the San Juan/Chama construction sight in ABQ and ask if there were witnesses to the balloon accident. Then swallow both of your feet.

I am from the other side of the tracks from Sally.
Sally is backwards to me, and quite slow mentally from taking drugs that made her hallucinate.
Some say I am the ghost of Sally's past, who has been alife for 11 years.

Posted by: yllas at November 9, 2007 4:38 PM
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Holy mokets! How many bodies do you have burried in the basement? What is your freak over the number 11? Some secret thing that only you know? Is it the secret number that God gave you?

Jill might want to save your irrational rants for evidence in possible future muder investigations. Subjects considered emotional by many can attract dangerously unbalanced people.

Poor thing you! Paris indeed looked like she wanted to join the fun of my daughter's wedding party. I turned 50 in July and look damn skippy. Of course the younger wedding party outshined me and her lonely self standing there all alone but surrounded by shopping bags. I saw a longing look in her eyes. She is a human being after all and it isn't impossible to look good at 50. Or have an amazingly beautiful daughter with lots of beautiful friends and family. You don't get out much do you.

Posted by: Sally at November 9, 2007 10:39 PM******************************************************************* Sally, who were you asking about being off of their meds?????

You saw the longing look in her eye? Maybe she WANTED your balloon hat..............

Sad Sack Sally.
Are you for giving oral contraceptives to 12 year olds? Yes or no.
Ps, Sally we know your challenged by victimhood from your grandmother and family having dead babies everywhere.
It explains why you have become soo emotionally involved with abortion, that many have noticed your,well rants.
Also, did you not write about your drug use of mescaline?yes or no.
Did you not write about a hot air ballon "planned accident"? Yes or no.
Do you understand the definition of logic, and the fact that if one "plans a accident" it is not a accident. Yes or no.
Did you not eyewitness a hot air ballon planned accident, and post about it for propaganda purposes related to your selfish concerns about your personal hatred of god? Which we now know stems from rotting flesh of dead babies inside your grandmother,which was caused by your version and vision of your personal god. Yes or no.
Do you understand by you changing words of a eyewitness account(hot air ballon planned accident) of a event you witnessed, reduces your truth-y-ness? Yes or no. Which leads others to doubt you really were a eyewitness to such a event, and made it up for your sick twisted propaganda purposes, that move forward a agenda based on a lie.
Did you not write that you have witnessed more death then most people have, especially Heather? yes or no.
Since you have written, you Sally, have eyewitnessed more death than most others have, Have you been treated for post traumatic shock? Yes or no.
Are you now taking drugs for PTSD? yes or no
Do you remember what you write Sally beyond one day? Yes or no.
That nothing that is not a human being has the potential of becoming a human being, and nothing that has the potential of becoming a human being is not a human being. True or false.
That the above statement causes in you Sally a inability to understand the statement is true from being affected by your personal extremeism for abortion. Yes or no.
That you, Sally, know Paris Hilton's personality enough, to know her emotion state was lonliness through seeing her eyes. Yes or no.
That Paris Hilton's eyes are lonely from being attached to her personality. Yes or no.
Do you know Paris Hilton as a friend?Yes or no.
Have you eyewitnessed Paris Hilton before you eyewitnessed her in a state of being lonely in Vegas. Yes or no.
Trapped on a pleasant Polynesian island with only Lamia Laura, would you have sex with Lamia Laura.Yes or no
Trapped on a pleasant Polynesian island with a 12 year old same sex person taking oral contraceptives would you have sex with her. Yes or no.

Sally noticed Paris Hilton having a longing look in her eyes. And Paris was her lonely self too. Then Sally has her mind mention to herself how "it isn't impossible to look good at 50."
Strangers in the night exchanging glances
Wondr'ing in the night
What were the chances we'd be sharing love
Before the night was through

Something in your eyes was so inviting
Something in your smile was so exciting
Something in my heart
Told me I must have you

Love was just a glance away
A warm embracing dance away

Well guess my question about Laura and Sally having sex with each other, using their sexual organs on each other on that island, has been answered.

I've got it!!!! Sally must be Jenito!

yllas, you are one "interesting" dude or dudette.