The Bible is full of references to homosexuality, adultery, whores, rape, sodomy, incest, and at least one refence to an ergot abortion. There's also a mother ton of sick, twisted, grisly violence - including torture murder.

What kind of freaks would give children access to that kind of material?

Laura,
The funny thing is that the Bible mentions those things in condemnation, while "It's Perfectly Normal" lauds them as acceptable, or even preferable. Also, the Bible's references to homosexuality, adultery, whores, rape, sodomy, incest, and at least one reference to an ergot abortion do not go into detail as to what they are, nor do they provide accompanying pictures or step-by-step instructions on how to do those horrible things.

So, you tell me ... "What kind of freaks would give children access to that kind of material?"

As Catholic and Enjoying It! blogger Mark Shea is fond of saying — quite rightly, I might add — "Show me a culture that despises virginity and I'll show you a culture that despises children."

Laura,
Yeah, but funny how you don't hear of anyone being hurt by the Bible, yet TONS & TONS of children are hurt by abortion and STD's each year!
---
"Planned Parenthood endorses It's Perfectly Normal"

Really? (hee-hee)

Laura,
The funny thing is that the Bible mentions those things in condemnation, while "It's Perfectly Normal" lauds them as acceptable
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah, and if I were a single or gay parent and my child was being taught that kind of "condemnation" (ignorant bigotry) shouldn't I be able to ban the Bible from the school library? Or should I accept the fact that tolerance is a two-way street?

Yeah, but funny how you don't hear of anyone being hurt by the Bible, yet TONS & TONS of children are hurt by abortion and STD's each year!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tell that to the kids at Jonestown or Waco.

Those would be kids that were hurt by men under Satan's hold,
NOT God, NOT the Bible.

LOL! That was totally the book my mom showed my sister "around that time."

However she did make margin notes such as "Adoption is an option, don't ever consider abortion a first choice."

Im sorry, Laura, but what public school (Grammer or High School) has the Bible in it's library?

It's a sex ed book! Of course there would be nudity in it. It's not like there are actual pictures of children in erotic poses. There's just illustrations of young adults with pubic hair.
And YES they talk about sex! That's what the book is about!

Flash: Masturbation doesn't hurt you. And it is considered a sin by some people. Again here, I don't understand what is being "attacked." mainly this video is about people being bored enough to call a kid's sex ed book "obscene and pornographic."

If you have a problem with explaining sex without a helpful education aid, then don't buy the book.

Holy crap people. Has the world gone insane. Let's find some middle ground here.

Laura-

Every public school has the Bible in their library.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=124221&title=this-week-in-god-burger-king

^^^
Talk about masturbation

Hery Bethany,
Thanks for featuring this book. I just found out about it too and immediately sent off an e-mail to Dawn over at the Dawn Patrol and am awaiting to see if she decides to write on this.

On another note, I just need to vent. First of all, my parents purchased my husband and I a computer for our wedding and we ordered a computer with Dell online. Then, while I was in training for a new job I just started, I kept getting phone calls from a very persistant and rude customer service rep. from Dell to confirm my information, but I clearly informed her I was unable to talk at this time and I'd call them back but she kept persisting. Later that night, I took the issue up with a supervisor, confirmed the needed information, and thought all was settled. Then the previous sales rep started calling not only my phone, but also my parent's phone persistantly and rudely for the same reason as before, despite that fact the issue had been resolved and the information recorded. So I called Dell again and spoke with another supervisor and this time, it was taken care of. Then I found out the credit card purchase didn't go through, so that had to be taken care of and was another day's delay. And finally I was given an estimated delivery time of a few days in mid November and it came and went, but came to found out the carrier tried to deliver once at my apartment, but because there was no answer (I sleep during the day since I work at night) they returned my computer to Dell and didn't even both leaving a recept or note of any kind for an attempted delivery, so I didn't find out until I looked into it myself today. And now Dell is telling me the delivery has been withheld because "there's a descripancy in my account" and when I called, I was redirced to a voice mail. What the ****! I'm soo frustrated. I've never heard of anyone having so many problems with purchasing a computer. Any suggestions for dealing with them, short of canceling the order?

My issue with the book isn't the nature of the book, yes kids should be taught accurate and age-appriopriate information on their bodies and sexuality. But this book goes overboard from the point of basic biology lesson to over-descriptive, graphic information. And features information they really don't need, such as step-by-step instructions with graphic cartoons on how to masterbate, it's something biological which most kids can and do figure out on their own. It appears more politically motivated to normalize abnormal and flamboyant sexuality.

"And features information they really don't need, such as step-by-step instructions with graphic cartoons on how to masterbate, it's something biological which most kids can and do figure out on their own."
Should read
"And features instructions they really don't need, such as step-by-step instructions with graphic cartoons on how to masterbate, it's something biological which most kids can and do figure out on their own."

I don't remember if there were step-by-step instructions. I seem to remember only vague descriptions such as "rubbing the clitoris blah blah blah.."

But I have an agent on that, and she will get back to me.

These things are blown way out of proportion. 7 to 9th graders can handle it, I'm sure.

Aw man, I don't have a confirmation. But, I highly doubt that there is a step by step. Probably simply, "usually rubbing the clitoris until a climax blah blah blah." I'm pretty sure it wasn't too specific.

LOL I still have to laugh at that part of the video where they couldn't believe anal and oral sex were being addressed. Well geez guys, if you want your kids to know that oral and anal sex IS STILL sex, then why leave it out of your sex talk? If you forget to tell them, will they not know or do it?

I just don't understand it.

PIP, it's for 4th to 7th graders. And it does include erotic poses.

Jill, there are not "actual pictures of children in erotic poses." There are illustrations of people with pubic hair, and illustrating the subject of the talks. The intent is in no way meant to arouse someone. Other sex ed books illustrate the same sort of stuff. I guess we have to classify them all as erotica/pornography, then.
I'm sure some sick individual might get off on them, too.

"PIP, it's for 4th to 7th graders. "
The only "free" copies were handed out to 7-9th graders at a PP party. In no way is this book being systematically handed out to children. It is up to the parents to do so. My mom used it for my little sister. She turned out great, probably going to have her education free and an upstanding Catholic girl.
Again, what the heck is the big deal?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=110445&title=klassic-kolbert-civil-lights
another masturbation joke is laden in there.

Im sorry, Laura, but what public school (Grammer or High School) has the Bible in it's library?

Posted by: AB Laura at November 26, 2007 4:35 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All of them.

"On another note, I just need to vent. First of all, my parents purchased my husband and I a computer for our wedding and we ordered a computer with Dell online. Then, while I was in training for a new job I just started, I kept getting phone calls from a very persistant and rude customer service rep. from Dell to confirm my information, but I clearly informed her I was unable to talk at this time and I'd call them back but she kept persisting. Later that night, I took the issue up with a supervisor, confirmed the needed information, and thought all was settled. Then the previous sales rep started calling not only my phone, but also my parent's phone persistantly and rudely for the same reason as before, despite that fact the issue had been resolved and the information recorded. So I called Dell again and spoke with another supervisor and this time, it was taken care of. Then I found out the credit card purchase didn't go through, so that had to be taken care of and was another day's delay. And finally I was given an estimated delivery time of a few days in mid November and it came and went, but came to found out the carrier tried to deliver once at my apartment, but because there was no answer (I sleep during the day since I work at night) they returned my computer to Dell and didn't even both leaving a recept or note of any kind for an attempted delivery, so I didn't find out until I looked into it myself today. And now Dell is telling me the delivery has been withheld because "there's a descripancy in my account" and when I called, I was redirced to a voice mail. What the ****! I'm soo frustrated. I've never heard of anyone having so many problems with purchasing a computer. Any suggestions for dealing with them, short of canceling the order?"

--------------------------------------------------

Yes, But an Apple computer... they are better computers anyway. Either that, or go into a store to purchase. I am surprised you had such terrible service. I'm sorry.

PIP said, "Laura-

Every public school has the Bible in their library."

Thanks, PIP! It has been so many years since my public schooling days! I was not aware, especially after all of the ACLU/atheist suits, that the Bible was still "allowed". What wonderful news! Thanks for answering that for me !!!

No problem.

There is good reason to have the Bible allowed in a library. Even from a secular point of view, it is useful for context concerning literary allusions and for historical purposes. In high school, open topic papers often discussed the Bible. There would be no reason to want to remove the Bible from a library, as long as the public school isn't promoting the Bible as truth in the classroom.

Rebecca-

I second JM's proposal. Macs may be more expensive, but I've had mine since my senior year of high school (I'm a junior in college now), and have had very little problems with it. You are also paying for top service. They are easy to use, their website is full of troubleshooting and helpful message boards, and you can walk into the apple store and unless real manpower has to be done to your product they often fix any problem for free. They have saved my ipod on 3 different occasions--all for free.

PIP said, "Laura-

Every public school has the Bible in their library."

Thanks, PIP! It has been so many years since my public schooling days! I was not aware, especially after all of the ACLU/atheist suits, that the Bible was still "allowed". What wonderful news! Thanks for answering that for me !!!

Posted by: AB Laura at November 26, 2007 6:23 PM
.....................................

I think that the ACLU is against book banning but I'm not sure.

Sally-

Yeah it seems that most civil rights organizations would be against such things but I'm not an expert on the issue either.

PIP- I wish I could afford an apple. I'll get one someday.

I wish I could afford an apple, too...MUCH better graphics/applications for "photochopping"

I saw a "Thanksgiving weekend ad" for a new Mac...starts at $1849.00....OUCH!

But, no viruses...after all I've paid for removals, I probably should have bought one in the first place!

Yup, no viruses! And it comes with all the software to make movies, crop photos, etc. And usually comes with all the office apps, too.

Mine is an iBook G4, which for obvious reasons is less expensive. I still say its worth it though to get a desktop mac. The technology is advanced and there is much fewer problems and better benefits with a mac than a pc.

Leave it to someone involved with PP to put out this kind of trash.

PIP,

7 to 9th graders can handle it, I'm sure.

Perhaps, but it isn't geared towards 7th to 9th graders...it's geared toward 10 year olds. That would be 4th and 5th grade.

And again, if this book is sold in the adult department of a book store, whatever, but if it's in the children's sections I would have a real problem with it.

I once found an Edward Gorey book in the Children's section. Apparently someone didn't know his authors. A is for Amy who fell down the stairs. B is for Basil assaulted by bears. C is for Clara who wasted away. D is for Desmond thrown out of a sleigh.

Don't get me wrong. The book was hilarious. I bought it. But it didn't belong in the children's section.

Either does this book. There is a section in bookstores for books on parenting and such. It could go there. But no child should stumble upon this book. It definitely needs adult supervision.

While I detest it, and hate what it says, I understand that if I want my Catholic books in a book store, then I must allow this one there too. I'll just have to stop letting my kids roam free while I browse the grown up books. It's sad, but there you have it. The world has indeed gone mad.

Yup, no viruses! And it comes with all the software to make movies, crop photos, etc. And usually comes with all the office apps, too.

Mine is an iBook G4, which for obvious reasons is less expensive. I still say its worth it though to get a desktop mac. The technology is advanced and there is much fewer problems and better benefits with a mac than a pc.

Posted by: prettyinpink at November 26, 2007 7:09 PM
......................................

My kids gave me my Mac mini when I hit the big 50 this year. I love love love it! I also got a new flat screen and a JBL creature. I'm so spoiled!

Sally,
I am soooooooooo jealous!!! Happy belated 50th!!!

Sally,

Happy 50th....sounds like you have nice kids...

Sally,
I am soooooooooo jealous!!! Happy belated 50th!!!

Posted by: AB Laura at November 26, 2007 8:21 PM
.....................................................

Thanks Laura!

Sally,

Happy 50th....sounds like you have nice kids...

Posted by: jasper at November 26, 2007 8:26 PM

.................................

Thanks Jasper! My kids are fabulous.

"Perhaps, but it isn't geared towards 7th to 9th graders...it's geared toward 10 year olds. That would be 4th and 5th grade."
According to the video, it was given away to 7th and 9th graders. It is meant to be a teaching tool for those about to go through puberty. If you don't want your teenagers to find out about oral sex, anal sex, and masturbation from you/the book, just don't buy it. Again, what is the big deal. It would be pretty obvious if you don't like it just flipping through the pages. It's a personal buy, they are not handing these out in public schools or anything.

" There is a section in bookstores for books on parenting and such. It could go there. "
That's true. So is the only thing we are arguing is where these books are placed? Then hey, why don't you ask the bookstores.

"My kids gave me my Mac mini when I hit the big 50 this year. I love love love it! I also got a new flat screen and a JBL creature. I'm so spoiled!"
That's AWESOME! happy 50th btw!

Thank you PIP!

I was not aware, especially after all of the ACLU/atheist suits, that the Bible was still "allowed".

I don't know a single atheist who would support the removal of the Bible from school libraries (except maybe as a stunt, to illustrate the harm of book-banning). Contrary to popular misinformation, church-state separationists don't want to forbid students to read the Bible or mention Christianity in public schools. We just don't want the schools to officially promote religion (or officially disparage it, either; government entities should be neutral on religion).

Topic: I wish I could see a copy of this book and make up my own mind about it. The prison comparison is silly; just because a prison has a policy forbidding images of a sexual nature doesn't make the book porn. I'm reasonably certain those guidelines weren't drawn up with sex ed books in mind -- they were no doubt trying to forbid *actual* porn, and worded the policy very broadly.

The images shown (well, mostly shown) in the video surprised me, but I didn't find them exploitative or titillating, nor did I consider the information anything that kids going through puberty shouldn't know. I do think that it would be better for a trusted adult, such as a parent, teacher, or doctor, to go over the information with a child rather than just handing them the book. That way, the kid would be able to ask questions, and the adult (especially a parent) would be able to discuss the information in the context of their own values and beliefs. On the other hand, my mom pretty much just handed me a book, and I turned out OK. :)

For the people who are calling this porn -- do you seriously find the pictures arousing? Is there no place for illustration in sex education?

Once again, I lament the lack of pro-life sex ed. (No, I don't think abstinence-only counts as sex ed.)

I bought this book for my child. It's an excellent book.

No "step-by-step instructions on how to masturbate," but it does mention that masturbation is normal and private. It also says that some people consider it wrong, and that not everyone does it.

It's full of valuable, accurate, harmless information. God knows ignorance doesn't help anyone make good decisions.

And wow, I can't believe he says the book doesn't mention abstinence. The index lists "abstinence" in five different places in the book.

Page 55 says: Sexual intercourse, or as it is often called, "making love," is a kind of sharing between two people. The very beginnings of a new human being -- a baby -- can form, immediately after sexual intercourse, if a sperm cell joins with an egg cell. Touching, caressing, kissing and hugging, often called "making out" or "petting" -- are other kinds of sharing that can make two people feel very close and loving and excited about one another. People can and do become sexually excited without having sexual intercourse. Choosing to wait to have sexual intercourse until one is older or feels more responsible is called postponement. Choosing not to have sexual intercourse is called abstinence. When two people feel they are too young to have sexual intercourse, do not know each other well enough, or do not want to have sexual intercourse for any other reason, they may decide just to hold hands, cuddle, dance, kiss or make out. Sharing between two people who care about each other always means having respect for each other's feelings and wishes, including respecting each other's right to say no to any kind of sexual activity -- any time and for any reason."

Page 68 says: "Whether or not to have sexual intercourse is a decision each person has a right to make. But a person should always remember that sexual intercourse can result in pregnancy and having a baby. Many young people choose to wait to have sexual intercourse until they feel they are either old enough or responsible enough. This is called postponement. Postponement means to delay until a later time. However, they only sure way not to have an unwanted pregnancy is to not have sexual intercourse."

Page 69 says: "Many people who choose to postpone or abstain from sexual intercourse say that they can still have a close, loving, and sexy relationship with another person."

Page 82 says: "Luckily, scientists and doctors have discovered ways in which people can protect themselves from getting HIV and lessen their chances of developing AIDS. One way is to abstain from having sexual intercourse with another person. This is called abstinence and is the only fully safe way people can protect themselves from getting HIV through sexual contact."

Why in the world is ALL lying about this book?

"That way, the kid would be able to ask questions, and the adult (especially a parent) would be able to discuss the information in the context of their own values and beliefs. "
Yeah that's what my mom did.

"Why in the world is ALL lying about this book?"
Heck if I know, tp. My mom bought it for my sister and I never found it inappropriate. It seems like people are forming an opinion without looking at it. Again my statement applies that it just seems like people are bored enough to call sex ed pornography.

And wow, I can't believe he says the book doesn't mention abstinence.

Well, he says the book doesn't mention the "virtues of chastity". I'm guessing the objection is that it doesn't argue that sex should be reserved for (heterosexual) marriage.

The very beginnings of a new human being -- a baby -- can form, immediately after sexual intercourse, if a sperm cell joins with an egg cell.

Wow, seriously? It says that? That's a lot better than I expected.

Bethany? Did you actually read this book?

PIP,

"Perhaps, but it isn't geared towards 7th to 9th graders...it's geared toward 10 year olds. That would be 4th and 5th grade."
According to the video, it was given away to 7th and 9th graders.

According to the book cover, it is labeled for children 10+...you can go to their website and see for yourself. But it's right there on the cover.

Sally, yes, I have read it...when I was at the Books A Million, and didn't know what it was until I opened it.
It was pretty shocking. I'm sorry, PIP, I agree with you on some things, but I would never let my children touch that book with a 10 foot pole. I'll be teaching them about sex....If I use books to help, it'll be books like Bloom and Boom, which are Christian publications, explain everything that they need to know, with no illustrations, and teach them how to actually love the person they meet in life, rather than how to have sex with them.
They don't need to see pornographic pictures to understand how their bodies work. They also don't need to be taught how to masturbate.

Yeah, I guess we simply have to disagree here. I have read it and don't find it bad at all.

For what purpose does one teach a child how to masturbate?

And by the way, since there are so many graphic pictures of everything mentioned- when the book mentions that there are 9 "perfectly normal" reasons to abort, why don't they have some illustrations of an abortion procedure?
Wouldn't it be educational?

But that is the beauty- each parent can choose how to do the sex talk. These books aren't mandatory.

No, PIP, the book isn't mandatory, but please do explain to me why a child ever needs to see pictures of a child masturbating in order to be educated about how his or her body works?

Read this Amazon.com review of this book. It is very sad, and something that I would imagine could be VERY likely to happen, with the book getting into certain children's hands:

9 of 40 people found the following review helpful:
1.0 out of 5 stars

I was sexually abused because of books like this...,

October 6, 2006

By Ginger Parker "storm1161" (Washington) -

When I was about 5 as a little girl I was playing at another kid's house. That other kid was 5 years older and MUCH larger than me. She told me that she wanted to show me something and that it was a secret. I was excited about a "secret" and wanted to see. She led me into her room and closed and locked the door behind her. Her room was cluttered like any kids room and she pulled a book from underneath some small blankets on the floor. It was a book with cartoon pictures inside. They were cartoon drawings of boys and girls similar to the ones in this book. Some of those pictures included vague sexual activities. As a child I was curious about the book and in awe of what it showed. I was too young to understand all the words and I do not remember much of what I did understand. I remember reading the word sex, but that is the only one that I can confirm.
While viewing the book she said "I have an idea. Let's try these!" and pointed to a man and a woman having sex in missionary position and another photo of a girl having oral sex performed by another man. I told her that I did not want to try those and that they did not make me feel comfortable.
Unfortunately the whole event is something that I remember in great detail to this day (21 years later). I will not go into great detail, but I was forced to perform those actions, among others shown in the book. To this day I can remember the smells and tastes and the physical pain as I was being hit and my hair pulled when not complying and to put me where she wanted me to be. I remember the weight of her body as she forced herself down upon me so hard that I could not get away or even move.
I had not put much thought into the incident in my adult years. I remember it, but did not feel the pain... until I saw this book. It is books like these that portray sex to children in such a way that they want to explore it aggressively for themselves. And if they cannot find cooperative partners they will make one. It could be the neighbor's boy, it could be their sister, or their cousin. You may say, "No, not my child.", but I believe that children will do very bad things sometimes because they don't understand it. In this books case it would be condoned and therefore it might be ok to go farther because the people in the pictures were doing it.
Technical Criticism:
The images in this book are extremely graphic and even step into pornographic. I would say that some of the images also border on child pornography (and I am the type of person who thinks that it is ok for young toddlers to pose in underpants for clothing ads and that taking nudie photos of their little babies and funny little 2 year olds playing in the bathtub is just fine). They display people having sex and children masturbating or playing with themselves. There are far more nude photos of both sexes than needed for education and cartoons are not an accurate visual for anatomy. The birthing section just did not look right.
Additional Description:
I am typically a very liberal person. I know that many kids will figure out and practice masturbation and tend to figure it out without being told how. I believe in sexual education starting around 3rd grade. Sooner if you want to tell your kids how cats and dogs make the cute babies or how chicks are born. I believe that this all should be taken on a very clinical level. It is after all a very scientific occurrence. It may seem boring for the child to learn and they may not be interested. Don't push them. They are not interested because they are just not ready for it. They will remember what they need and you can provide a clinical informational book on the shelf for them that they know about. Then they can peruse the matter on their own volition. Kids don't need to be encouraged to have sex or engage in sexual activities. Humans have been doing this for thousands of years and never needed any form of encouragement to get there. Sure educate them, then if they forget and want to refresh their minds, just make sure and leave them the capability to find out on their own.
There are healthy books for teaching children sexual education.
Despite what others may think. I just don't want to see what happened to me to happen to other children. I believe that books like these should be burned.

As another note: I hope the author is just ignorant, stupid, or innocent and not just sick.

Since there is no talk of marriage, chastity or monogamy, why couldn't you just show them a Hustler magazine? I mean it's the same thing. Sex outside the context of marriage?

"See Susie. Susie has big breasts. Men like big breasts. Men like Susie"

"Johnny has a penis. This is what it looks like when it's happy. It feels good to put his penis in Janie's vagina. Johnny doesn't love Janie, but that's okay, because Johnny is using Janie to feel good and Janie lets Johnny use her because it feels good to her too."

"Marsha gets paid big bucks to show us her private parts. You can go to college if you like, or you can make lots of money feeling good with Johnny and getting paid for it"

"Silly Bill. Bill is not using a condom. Use a condom Bill. Use a condom Lindsey."

"See Jessica. See Jessica take a pill. Jessica takes a pill so that she can have fun with Johnny too."

"See the baby? The baby is bad. Kill the baby. Then Kimberly and Johnny can have more fun."

I'm sure that many of you, pro-choice or not, would not want your kids getting jobs as porn stars. How would you feel if someone put out a childrens book on how to be in the porn business.

This is morally offensive to us, even tho to you it all seems, well, Perfectly Normal.

Again, if a parent wants to show this to their child, then go for it. But it should not be in the childrens section of the library OR bookstore. And the fact that it was being sold at a school book fair (per Bethany) is truly disturbing.

Well, I've read this book.

The only page that doesn't have graphic cartoons is the abortion page.

Hmmmm...wonder why. It's fine to show sexual positions but not a dismembered cartoon baby.

"For what purpose does one teach a child how to masturbate? "
It doesn't really teach, just explains.

"why don't they have some illustrations of an abortion procedure?
Wouldn't it be educational?"
Sure. You should write to the authors and ask!

Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. I went away and before I left decided to leave another note.

"For what purpose does one teach a child how to masturbate? "
It doesn't really teach, just explains.

Okay, PIP, for what purpose does one explain to a child about masturbation?

With graphic pictures, btw.

Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. I went away and before I left decided to leave another note.

No problem...I was gone for a bit too.

"No, PIP, the book isn't mandatory, but please do explain to me why a child ever needs to see pictures of a child masturbating in order to be educated about how his or her body works? "

I guess nobody NEEDS to hear any of it, but if a parent thinks they should know everything, masturbation should be included in their education. If not, don't buy the book.

" It is very sad, and something that I would imagine could be VERY likely to happen"
The book explicitly states that nobody should be forced to do anything, and I think the book should be read and explained to by the parents so that they can be made very clear that it is inappropriate to do such things.
I was also saddened by the situation. She needs someone who cares about her and good counseling to help her through that horrible ordeal. However, I don't think we should necessarily BLAME the book, just like we shouldn't BLAME the Bible if a child tries to walk on water and drowns.

"Since there is no talk of marriage, chastity or monogamy"
Sure there is. Did you read the book?

"I mean it's the same thing. Sex outside the context of marriage?"
Um...nope. I don't think they could be put into the same category.

"How would you feel if someone put out a childrens book on how to be in the porn business."
What a silly accusation.

"This is morally offensive to us, even tho to you it all seems, well, Perfectly Normal."
Then don't buy the book. Why is it necessary to raise a big stink about it?

"But it should not be in the childrens section of the library OR bookstore. "
If that is what this debate is all about, why don't you write letters to your library? This guy was all up in arms because the book was handed out to 7th to 9th graders at some PP party? Well I think that section of the population is generally not going to be offended by it. I also think it was intended for kids entering puberty (yes for some people it is around 10 years old) then, most people agree, the parents should use discretion. If they don't want a reading tool don't buy one. If all the sex ed books are in the childrens sections and you don't like them there, bring it up with them. I'm sure most pictures in the book are comparable to those in other sex ed books. Mine showed a naked man and a lady in a bathtub standing up staring at each other, for one, and it was more conservative on things than this book was. If you consider it pornographic, don't give it to your kid.

"Okay, PIP, for what purpose does one explain to a child about masturbation?"
To let them know that it's perfectly normal? (or, I guess for you guys, that you should never do it?)

"With graphic pictures, btw. "
lol, really, I don't think those pictures are unnecessarily graphic.

Mine showed a naked man and a lady in a bathtub standing up staring at each other

That just makes me giggle. What concept was that illustrating, exactly?

Then don't buy the book. Why is it necessary to raise a big stink about it?

I would think that if they can publish a book, targeted to children, we have a right to respond, just as well.

They have freedom of speech, and we have freedom to respond to their speech, whatever it may be...that's just how it is.

But besides all that, I don't think they should have freedom of selling pornography to children.. That's going too far. You may not consider it pornography, but I definitely do. And so do a great deal of concerned parents.

Not to mention, the book advocates abortion and lists 9 reasons to abort...but no reasons to choose life? Hmmmm.....

It's fascinating that most of this comment thread consists of one person arguing that the book is OK.

The purpose of videos like this is to educate the public about attacks on their children. "It's Perfectly Normal" is in school and city libraries around the country. Many parents would be horrified to know that their kids have access to this material in school. It's not simply a matter of not buying the book. It's also up to parents to rid their libraries of this trash.

"That just makes me giggle. What concept was that illustrating, exactly?"
LOL I guess the "men have penises and women have vaginas" concept? Not sure.

"They have freedom of speech, and we have freedom to respond to their speech, whatever it may be...that's just how it is."
Well of course you have a right. I just think it's a pointless cause. I am expressing my freedom of speech when I say there are actually worthwhile things to pursue.

"You may not consider it pornography, but I definitely do. And so do a great deal of concerned parents."
So, you don't want any illustrated sex ed books to be on the market?

"Not to mention, the book advocates abortion and lists 9 reasons to abort...but no reasons to choose life? Hmmmm..... "
From what I remember they said it was an option, as well as things like adoption. My mother wrote in the margin "adoption is an option, abortion should never be a first choice."
It's parenting! There can be no substitutes for parents.

"It's fascinating that most of this comment thread consists of one person arguing that the book is OK."
Maybe you should re-read this comment thread.

"It's also up to parents to rid their libraries of this trash."
Then I fully expect all illustrated sex ed books out of the library. Fair's fair.

So, you don't want any illustrated sex ed books to be on the market?

Then I fully expect all illustrated sex ed books out of the library. Fair's fair.

(apologies in advance- I feel sarcastic today)

No, of course not, PIP, I think that children should have access to ANY "sex education" they can get their hands on. That's why I think that Kama Sutra books should be right beside "It's Perfectly Normal" in the kids section, so that children never have to be ignorant of any sexual activity they may not be aware of, or how to perform in different positions. Not to mention, they should know that "It's Perfectly Normal" behavior for any person, no matter what age you are, as long as it "feels good".

I mean, there's nothing to be ashamed at, looking at those images, learning about how you can use your body, as a young child, because we all know it's educational, right?

Don't you agree, that kids, as well as adults, (with their parents loving guidance of course) should have the right to browse through Kama Sutra in the kids section, PIP? Because if you don't, you must want all sex education books to be off the market...right?

Would you be offended if Planned Parenthood (or anyone) began endorsing THOSE books for children? What about Playboy? Playboy is full of human anatomy, PIP! Are you against children learning Human Anatomy?

If a Playboy like book was found in a child's section at the library, targeted to 10 and up, would you have a problem with it? If so, does that mean that you against children being educated about the structure of their bodies?

Where do you draw the line, PIP? Would you be offended if Planned Parenthood published books with actual photographs of a child masturbating? For EDUCATIONAL purposes, of course?

What makes a drawing any less offensive to you, when it's done in such an obviously nonclinical manner?

"No, of course not, PIP, I think that children should have access to ANY "sex education" they can get their hands on"
I'm just saying, every other sex ed book also has "graphic" pictures, so I expect a movement to put all of these teaching tools (yeah, I mean the ones meant to teach children) into the parenting section. I don't think targeting one book is getting anybody anywhere.

"Not to mention, they should know that "It's Perfectly Normal" behavior for any person, no matter what age you are, as long as it "feels good"."
Well, I wouldn't say that. "feeling good" isn't related to freedom.

"I mean, there's nothing to be ashamed at, looking at those images, learning about how you can use your body, as a young child, because we all know it's educational, right?"
After flipping through the book a few times before we gave that one away, I did not feel any sort of repulsion or "kiddie porn" vibes from it. But if you do, don't buy it and keep your kids away from it. It's up to you to decide what you feel is appropriate for your child.

"Don't you agree, that kids, as well as adults, (with their parents loving guidance of course) should have the right to browse through Kama Sutra in the kids section, PIP? Because if you don't, you must want all sex education books to be off the market...right?"
What a silly thing to say.

"Would you be offended if Planned Parenthood (or anyone) began endorsing THOSE books for children? "
Kama Sutra? Um..yeah. Those books are completely instructional and meant for adults. Sex ed books are created to teach children about sex and meant for children. If I reread IPN today I would probably feel patronized.
I mean, if you can't distinguish the two....?

"Playboy is full of human anatomy, PIP! Are you against children learning Human Anatomy?"
I am against showing kids Playboy, mainly because it is pornography that is meant to entice sexual arousal and IPN is set up to tell kids what sex is and what puberty is.

"If a Playboy like book was found in a child's section at the library, targeted to 10 and up, would you have a problem with it? If so, does that mean that you against children being educated about the structure of their bodies?"
Idon't think your slippery-slope arguments work here, which is what your entire post is about. There is a BIG difference between actual softcore/hardcore porn and a book meant to teach kids about puberty and sex. I can give you a hint. One is full of women naked with blowjob lips and their legs spread open, and one is full of paragraphs like "what is a period?" "why is there hair down there?" "why are the girls in my grade taller than me?" and illustrations of bodies in different development and what sex looks like.

Seriously, if you want to get mad, how about TV which is FULL of violence and sex and doesn't require going through shelves after shelves of books to find. It just requires pushing the "on" button. Why are you burning one sex ed book and not the others? Why aren't you writing TV stations asking them to take off law and order, sex and the city, the sopranos, nip/tuck, prime time tv?

Thanks everyone for the advice on the computer issue. I went to a website called My3cents, which features consumer reviews on products and companies and not surprising, there were a lot of complaints about Dell customer service as well as HP, but the reviews for Macs were pretty positive. I did consider canceling the order and just purchasing a Mac (I've always been impressed with Macs), however decided against it because Mac's aren't compatable with most Windows software yet :-( After talking to my husband about the situation, we decided to continue with the order since Dell is one of the better computer manufacturers for what we need.

As for the book, I'm really undecided on it, but will have to check it out next time I'm at Barnes and Noble.

One day in 8th grade, the teacher left the classroom for a little while and the class clown thought it funny to draw something on the board to make the classroom laugh. He made a crude illustration of the male and female sex organs engaged in sexual intercourse. I knew how babies were created from mom and dad's cells, but the very intimate act of how this happened was never shown to me until that moment. And it shook me. I knew at that moment was innocence was and it had just left me forever. I couldn't look at girls the same way again because my mind kept going back to that drawing. It make me so sick that day. If only this had been explained to me as an act of love... as something sacred and special, then I wouldn't have felt so robbed of my innocence.

This book can and probably does do the same thing to the minds of children. There's no love or sacredness in the book. It's all mechanics. And it contributes to the objectivity of boys, girls, and sex.

Seriously, if you want to get mad, how about TV which is FULL of violence and sex and doesn't require going through shelves after shelves of books to find. It just requires pushing the "on" button. Why are you burning one sex ed book and not the others? Why aren't you writing TV stations asking them to take off law and order, sex and the city, the sopranos, nip/tuck, prime time tv?

If I found any of those shows (or anything similar) coming on one of the cartoon channels that my children watch, I would be outraged and I would do the same thing, PIP. That book is in the CHILDREN'S section at the bookstore, PIP. I shouldn't have to worry about what my kids might see, when they're in the CHILDREN's section.

If that's the only problem, let's try to move them to the PARENTING section.

I would much prefer that, PIP.

But I would also like the 10 and up sign to be removed. Do you think 10 year olds should see that stuff?

This book can and probably does do the same thing to the minds of children. There's no love or sacredness in the book. It's all mechanics. And it contributes to the objectivity of boys, girls, and sex.

Exactly, CC, very good point.

P.S. Just to clarify, the location is not the only problem with it. The child porn being in the book is definitely a big part and I think the book should be discontinued permanently.

But if it came to choosing locations, I would choose an adult section over children's section. Not that I think it should be in either.

"But I would also like the 10 and up sign to be removed. Do you think 10 year olds should see that stuff? "

Well some kids hit puberty at age 8. That's why the sticker is probably there, so that parents know that it is targeted towards children who are entering puberty and are curious as to what it means and why it is happening. Many kids I knew were getting the talks around that same time. I think I got mine around age 10 or so. But everyone develops differently so parents should use discretion and do the talks when they feel their kids are ready. But I can understand if parents don't want to show this book to their children, which is why there are several sex ed books to choose from.

"The child porn being in the book is definitely a big part and I think the book should be discontinued permanently."
I guess that is where we differ. Generally from my experience the pictures aren't drastically different than what is found in other books of that kind.

But PIP, they aren't clinical at all. Let me give an example so you can see the difference:

Here is a clinical picture of the sexual organs...one could use a picture like this to describe anything a young teen going through puberty would need to know about their bodies.

http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/femalerepro_1.gif

Compare that to the picture of the mom and dad rustling around in bed, and the children masturbating. Can you not see a difference?

One is meant only to explain.

One is meant to entice.

there are clinical pictures of a penis inside a vagina. Would you consider that enticing?

I just simply think that illustrations are meant to reach out to children because especially for younger ones, words don't quite get across to them. If illustrations of a man on top of a woman are too much, don't buy a book that illustrates it. And buy a book that doesn't address masturbation.

I just simply think that illustrations are meant to reach out to children because especially for younger ones, words don't quite get across to them.

Don't you think that if a child is too young to understand the words, they don't need to be exposed to that type of drawing in the first place?

Not necessarily. There are many things that are hard for me to visualize without pictures. Doesn't mean I shouldn't see them.

Pip, children are more impressionable than adults, yes or no?

Yes.

Bethany, I don't know what you want me to say. I don't find the pictures terribly inappropriate, while you do. All I can say is if you find it offensive don't let your children read it.