Families Against Planned Parenthood in Denver plans to picket the home of a company executive helping construct PP's new abortion mill on Christmas morning.

I think this is a proper and commendable idea.

Do you agree or disagree? Why or why not?

I disagree with it - it's messing with the privacy of their family too much.

Doug

I'm not comfortable with this plan. Protest at the work site where the building is going up or at the company's headquarters - great! But picketing at someone's home during Christmas will likely enflame the rhetoric of how those in prolife work are disrespectful of privacy and such.

I think it will definately send a message! I would agree with it if it were the only home on the block, but there are other neighbors on that block that are innocent here!

To me, abortion is the apitomy of death, destruction and despair.

Christmas, to me, is the apitomy of life, hope and happiness.

Mixing the two on a day that should only celebrate life, hope and happiness, to me at least, is uncalled for.

I think the protestors can find a way on Christmas morning to show love to the contractor, which, to me, would have more of an effect on him, his family & many surrounding neighbors.

I agree with it, only picketing at the work site makes things too comfortable for the people building it and it won't get the people to stop.

I completely disagree (which I'm sure isn't much of a surprise. Christmas is a time to celebrate love and, among Christians, to rejoice Jesus' birth (even if the date is off the mark). Using the Son's birth celebration to protest at a person's home (who is likely celebrating the holiday with his family) is uncalled for and completely defies the idea of peace, which has been incorporated into Christmas. It is an unspoken truce, or so it would seem. Using that day to protest someone doing their job because you dont like their client is ridiculous.

Christmas, to me, is the apitomy of life, hope and happiness.

Mixing the two on a day that should only celebrate life, hope and happiness, to me at least, is uncalled for.

I think the protestors can find a way on Christmas morning to show love to the contractor, which, to me, would have more of an effect on him, his family & many surrounding neighbors.

Posted by: AB Laura at December 23, 2007 12:56 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I completely agree with AB Laura.
(Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse?)

It is an unspoken truce, or so it would seem. Using that day to protest someone doing their job because you dont like their client is ridiculous.

Posted by: Dan at December 23, 2007 1:11 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yesterday Tim Russert was talking about German and American troops celebrating Christmas together during World War II.
They exchanged chocolate and smokes, and next morning picked up the war where they had left it the day before.
(That story made me choke up...)

AB Laura: I think the protestors can find a way on Christmas morning to show love to the contractor, which, to me, would have more of an effect on him, his family & many surrounding neighbors.

Nicely said, Laura. There are going to be many opinions about this, from one end of the spectrum to the other.

I also think it was nice of you to say it.

A big hug to you today.

Doug

It's a Christmas miracle!!!
Doug, Laura....Merry Christmas!

Well, let's see: it won't save any babies, won't help anyone, and will probably be seen by dozens of families with children visiting relatives in the neighborhood, which will only make FAPP look like bigger assholes than ever. Maybe the local news will do a story on it, then the whole city can cringe with disgust at the deranged anti-choice movement. All in all, sounds like a great idea, to me!

Jill,
Just out of pure curiousity, why do you believe that it is a proper and commendable idea?

I am pro-life all year, I don't take holidays off. Sounds like a great way to show love to the unborn as well as remind contractors their efforts will prevent some from experiencing the joy of Christmas. Great idea.

I disagree with it, mostly because I think on this day, we should be concerned with spending time with our family and appreciating what we have been given. Everybody deserves a day off I think...and this should be it for the Denver FAPP as well as for the company executive. Spend time loving your family and taking joy in all the gifts you have been given in every way. There's always the 26th! ;)

It's a bad idea. Not because he doesn't deserve to be protested. I personally don't care if this fellow's Christmas is ruined by protesters. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is "pro-choice" should never have a Merry Christmas, or any "Happy Holiday".

BUT... that is exactly how the story would be presented by the media, if it is covered at all. It would be those evil, evil pro-lifers stealing Christmas away from poor widdle kids and their family. So regardless of the intent, it's a bad idea.

John said, "As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is "pro-choice" should never have a Merry Christmas, or any "Happy Holiday".
-------
John, that's just rude!
Christmas was a gift to all...even pro-choicers.

Pro-choicers...I wish each and every one of you a Merry Christmas & I hope you have many happy holidays!

Perhaps people could spend an hour of Christmas in private prayer for this man? After all, it is God who converts hearts.

Elizabeth,
Amen to that!

It sounds like man's strategy dressed in clerical garb .... much more prayer seems needed. What is the purpose of this picket: to convert or to embarrass? Hope they pray about this.

It is a bad idea.

I have always disagreed with protesting at someone's home.

Even more so on Christmas.

As everyone else has stated, Christmas should be a time of peace and joy, not ruining a whole neighborhood's day.

It is a fact that little children will be witness to those god awful signs y'all hold. And as I've said before on here, a child who is young (& still innocent) does not know about abortions, nor should they be exposed to those graphic (& sometimes developmentaly wrong) pictures. Children should never be used or harmed by a politially charged issue.

For all you know the contractor, his family or his neighbors could be PL. Not to mention, y'all would be infringing on their privacy in rheir lawn with the protest.
------------------------------------
John:

Saying, "As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is "pro-choice" should never have a Merry Christmas, or any "Happy Holiday".

Way to show your true colors buddy! That is the Christian spirit right there man!

I thought Christians practiced forgiveness, peace and joy. I guess your not too good at your faith/religion.

Not to mention, that is just a horrid thing to say to people.

Laura,

It is an unspoken truce, or so it would seem. Using that day to protest someone doing their job because you dont like their client is ridiculous.

Posted by: Dan at December 23, 2007 1:11 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*
Yesterday Tim Russert was talking about German and American troops celebrating Christmas together during World War II.
They exchanged chocolate and smokes, and next morning picked up the war where they had left it the day before.
(That story made me choke up...)
Posted by: Laura at December 23, 2007 1:27 PM

This is one of the reasons why I love you...
I was going to post this exact thing. I recently read the story also (I believe they played soccer).

It started when the German side started singing a Christmas song in German, and the American soldiers recognized the tune. They joined in in English. It actually lasted for a couple of days.

I'd rather have the pro-lifers drop off dozens of cookies and then sing Christmas Carols. Or shovel their walk, or order them pizza. This is a time to show love and mercy. Plenty of time for protesting. Seems like some Random Acts of Kindness in His name would do more for everyone's souls...

British-German Truce

The truce began on Christmas Eve, December 24, 1914, when German troops began decorating the area around their trenches in the region of Ypres, Belgium, for Christmas. They began by placing candles on trees, then continued the celebration by singing Christmas carols, most notably Stille Nacht (Silent Night). The British troops in the trenches across from them responded by singing English carols.

The two sides continued by shouting Christmas greetings to each other. Soon thereafter, there were calls for visits across the "No Man's Land" where small gifts were exchanged — whisky, jam, cigars, chocolate, and the like. The artillery in the region fell silent that night. The truce also allowed a breathing spell where recently-fallen soldiers could be brought back behind their lines by burial parties. Proper burials took place as soldiers from both sides mourned the dead together and paid their respects. At one funeral in No Man's Land, soldiers from both sides gathered and read a passage from the 23rd Psalm:

The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures. He leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul. He leadeth me in the path of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil.

The truce spread to other areas of the lines, and there are many stories of football matches between the opposing forces. The film Joyeux Noël suggests that letters sent home from both British and German soldiers related that the score was 3-2 in favour of the Germans.

In many sectors, the truce lasted through Christmas night, but in some areas, it continued until New Year's Day.

The truce occurred in spite of opposition at higher levels of the military. Earlier in the autumn, a call by Pope Benedict XV for an official truce between the warring governments had been ignored.

British commanders Sir John French and Sir Horace Smith-Dorrien vowed that no such truce would be allowed again. (However, both had left command before Christmas 1915.) In all of the following years of the war, artillery bombardments were ordered on Christmas Eve to ensure that there were no further lulls in the combat. Troops were also rotated through various sectors of the front to prevent them from becoming overly familiar with the enemy. Despite those measures, there were a few friendly encounters between enemy soldiers, but on a much smaller scale than the previous year.

wikipedia

This was in our Parish bulletin today...Doug, it especially made me think of you for some reason...

During the Christmas rush two business executives were standing on Fifth Avenue at 57th street in downtown Manhattan waiting to cross. Even the pedestrian traffic on the side walk was a mess. "I hate this time of year", one of the executives said. "This is ridiculous. You can't even walk to where you have to go! This city is a nightmare at Christmas. Something needs to be done about this!" But the other man was a bit more philosophical. "You know, it's astounding, the romance of it. There was a baby born of peasant parents in a little out of the way place half way around the world. The parents had no money or social standing, yet two thousand years later that child creates a traffic jam on Fifth Avenue, one of the most sophisticated streets in the biggest city on earth. This irritates you? It should fascinate you!"

Merry Christmas Everyone!
Here's to the Babe that was born.
Here's to us all!

This is a time to show love and mercy. Plenty of time for protesting. Seems like some Random Acts of Kindness in His name would do more for everyone's souls...

MK, a great big hug for you too.

Doug

Right back atchya Dougster.

I agree with AB Laura and mk. And i know the pro-lifers would bring their little children out in the cold on Christmas day to protest. I mean even though I don't agree with all of my families beliefs but at least I try and be happy and agreeable on Christmas.
Can't we all just have a merry Christmas? Everyone?

Ok not agreeable but affectionate, yeah that was the word I was looking for.
Snorggles all around!

John,

John said, "As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is "pro-choice" should never have a Merry Christmas, or any "Happy Holiday".

I think those are the very people that should be blessed most on Christmas. I prayed at church today that every single pro choicer on this site would receive a small Christmas miracle and one ray of His light...just a peek...at His goodness and the wonder of it all.

We must, must, must make room at the inn for all of our wayward travelers.

It would be completely inappropriate. Christmas is a time to be with family and celebrate life, spirituality, and intimacy. Interfering with someone's time of celebration is extremely rude.

Christmas is the time to pray for the unborn and for the people involved, it is not a time for harassment.

Went to Mass with my dad today, MK. :P

*hug*

Have a great Christmas, all.

Demonstrating in front of this man's house on Christmas is exactly like Westboro Baptist Church members demonstrating at the funerals of fallen soldiers.

There is a time and place for everyone to promote your agenda, and this ain't it.

Hmmm……good question today Jill. A very thorny proposal. I think the general consensus here seems to be that a picket on Christmas would at the very least be presented as hypocritical. But at the same time, the reason Christ had to come to earth in the first place was because of the horrors of sin. So I guess I’ll throw my 2¢ for target practice to all:

I think the timing could be very productive IF this were a prayer vigil instead of a picket. To see a group of people on their knees in peaceful prayer and perhaps singing hymns while praying for conviction on the heart of the contractor and his conversion would be most appropriate on Christmas day. I think the end is noble, but the means is questionable if a picket is truly what they intend to do. Prayer is powerful and during our local 40 Days campaign I saw a lot of hostility towards us totally diffused by the fact that we were on our knees in prayer or standing silently praying rather than picketing…in fact, for our campaign no signs were even allowed. Even the police came to be helpful and appreciative of us whereas in times past they were ambivalent at best to the PL presence at the mill.

I personally would not participate in a picket of this man’s home on Christmas.

I would, however, participate in a prayer vigil at his home on Christmas. As my pastor said today: no one is beyond the Grace of God.

(And a peaceful, prayerful presence is a whole lot tougher for the media to spin.)

oh right on, MK.

Ditto MK...

Whatever happened to "do unto others...."?

I most certainly would not like PC'ers picketing with their "my body, my choice" signs in front of my house on Christmas day!

PETA says, YOUR CHRISTMAS HAM IS MURDER!
*holds up picture of Babe*

Hm, where do you live?

"I most certainly would not like PC'ers picketing with their "my body, my choice" signs in front of my house on Christmas day!"

Ahhhh, but AB Laura....think of the opportunity to witness!!

I am not comfortable with picketing someone's home....anytime. If I could be convinced it actually changes hearts, then maybe I could change my mind, but I personally think it is ineffective and bad p.r. for the pro-life side. Especially on Christmas, I think it would do more p.r. damage than do any good.

A terrible idea for all the reasons mentioned above that will only serve to enforce the idea in peoples' minds that pro-lifers are hateful and crazy. :(

"PETA says, YOUR CHRISTMAS HAM IS MURDER!
*holds up picture of Babe*"

Merry Christmas to PETA:

Bee Fish Ewe A Mare Egret Moose Panda Hippo Gnu Deer!

mk said: "I think those are the very people that should be blessed most on Christmas."

I agree. They should be blessed. Blessed in the sense of having whatever demons are manipulating them driven out forever. Not once has a single one of the pro-aborts ever given a reasonable argument for why abortion should be legal. The only conclusion I can come to, then, is some sort of demonic inspiration.

I will gladly wish, hope, and pray for these people to come to their senses. And, if a Merry Christmas helps that come about, then, I might even wish that upon them.

@Theresa: Hahahahahaha, that was clever! *giggles*

@John: There is no such thing as "demons". It makes you sound silly to talk about "demonic inspiration" or "possession".

Don't be intolerant, Rae.

I'm not being intolerant. It seriously makes people look "unhinged" when they start yammering on about demonic possession.

Pro-choice folks are not possessed, they are not evil...most are just very misguided or don't fully understand how incongruous abortion is with the rest of their views. Sure, there are some that deliberately and knowingly lie about abortion, but I feel they are just a very vocal minority (much like the "Army of God" on the Pro-life side: a tiny, vocal minority).

Now if you can empirically demonstrate that demons are real and that pro-choicers are possessed by said demons, I will eat my shirt (with barbecue sauce and french fries).

If demons aren't real then who ARE these voices in my head?

Maybe it's a fluke....but they keep telling me to krill myself in a little whale.

OMG--I can't stop....

OK, Rae, so you aren't being intolerant. You're just mocking the religious beliefs of millions of Christians as "silly", seeing as how Jesus himself said that demons exist.

Fine, then, I'll pray that the pro-aborts regain some vestige of sanity, regardless of the cause of the insanity. Happy now? Or is prayer also silly? After all, I can't provide empirical evidence that it does anything.

The only thing is, what about all those babies who will never know the joy of celebrating a Christmas with their families because their life was snuffed out in the womb? Lets remember those tiny ones and their moms and dads who now have empty arms and maybe troubled consciences.
I agree with John however, that the negative media portrayal negates any benefits of protesting. Pray to the Divine Infant that no one will have an abortion on this day, His birthday.

"Maybe it's a fluke....but they keep telling me to krill myself in a little whale.

OMG--I can't stop...."

@Theresa: Lol, that's great. Flukes are creepy, nothing more fantastic than parasitic worms.

But I gotta say, "krill yourself": I laughed out loud. :D

"Pray to the Divine Infant that no one will have an abortion on this day, His birthday."

I'm willing to bet no self-respecting abortionist is going to work on his paid holiday. I mean, there have to be limits you know....professional standards and all. I mean if one abortionist works on the "Happy Holiday" then people will start expecting them all to give up their day off on Dec. 25th....it'll be anarchy.

@ Rae:

Glad to see I'm not the only one here with a wacky sense of humor!

"OK, Rae, so you aren't being intolerant. You're just mocking the religious beliefs of millions of Christians as "silly", seeing as how Jesus himself said that demons exist.

Fine, then, I'll pray that the pro-aborts regain some vestige of sanity, regardless of the cause of the insanity. Happy now? Or is prayer also silly? After all, I can't provide empirical evidence that it does anything."

John, I apologize if I came off as hostile, I didn't mean to. I do think the concept of "demons" is silly, but that is my opinion. However, it was not my intention to offend, but obviously I did, and I apologize.

I don't find prayer silly. I don't use it because I find it useless, but if it gives you comfort I see nothing wrong with it. *shrugs* I see prayer as a way of dealing with things that you don't understand/can't comprehend. I think that is why prayer is said to help when you're sick, as it allows you to calm down and reduces stress (much like meditation, as prayer is sometimes like meditation is it not?) which makes you healthier.

I really didn't mean to come off as an arse or as condescending (though I can definitely see how I did come off as that...*cringe*).

Lol, Theresa:
"Bee Fish Ewe A Mare Egret Moose Panda Hippo Gnu Deer!"
I don't get it : (

The only time I harassed someone for eating meat was when my parents got live lobsters and I bonded with them.

Rae, seeing as how dialogue with pro-aborts is a complete waste of time, I have no 'choice' but to turn to prayer.

@Jess: If you read those words out-loud it sounds kinda like "We wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year".

@Rae,

It is very difficult to personalize evil in this way, especially when moral relativism is so fashionable. But this was a very large part of Jesus' own ministry and did He not send out His disciples to 'cast out devils ...'? Perhaps it is us with the perception problem!

"Rae, seeing as how dialogue with pro-aborts is a complete waste of time, I have no 'choice' but to turn to prayer."

Apparently you don't really think that too much as you frequently talk to a few of the "pro-aborts" on here.

*shrugs*

I always enjoy having a dialog with the "enemy" as [to me] it is interesting to see what the opposition is thinking. I'm fairly liberal, and I come on here to see what the opposition is up to and sometimes y'all make good points that I do take into consideration (ie the problems with Universal Health Care).

"It is very difficult to personalize evil in this way, especially when moral relativism is so fashionable. But this was a very large part of Jesus' own ministry and did He not send out His disciples to 'cast out devils ...'? Perhaps it is us with the perception problem!"

Well here's a little problem with this assumption John, I am not a moral relativist. I just don't think folks with a particular political view point (even one I disagree with) are evil. Sure, there are evil people in the world, I do believe it exists (I see it whenever I turn on the news and see that another person has been pointlessly murdered).

There is also the whole problem with Jesus sending his disciples to "cast out the devils". Perhaps he was speaking metaphorically? However, I can't really comment on this as I don't believe in Jesus' divinity. *shrugs*

So Rae, and I mean this in all sincerity (not trying to be an arse!) Since Jesus claims to be the Son of God, and part of the Triune God-Head that means if you do not believe he was Lord, then you are left with he was either a lunatic or a liar....I'm just curious which one you think it was?

I think that this is taking it too far. I agree with MK's random acts of kindness idea.

Oh my god, I agree with Laura.

I think I just fell off my chair....

Don't worry Carrie....I'm sure it's only temporary and probably not contagious. But still, you might want to sanitize your keyboard…..

@Theresa: Oh this is *probably* going to get me in trouble... but I'm going to say "lunatic" (even though I bloody hate that word).

*cringe*

I wonder who will be more horrified, me or Laura?

Don't cringe—I asked and was hoping for an honest answer. Frankly, I’d rather hear that you think he’s a lunatic than you think he was “a good teacher” or “a nice man” because either of those two opinions tells me you don’t know what you’re talking about. At least if you think He’s a lunatic, you give credence to the existence of his claims….and that makes you someone who’s intelligence (if not opinions!) I can respect.

I look forward to some lively debates.

(Plus anyone who knows what a Fluke is can’t be all bad!)

PS--Carrie: My guess is Laura.

Hey, for you guys that like making cookies and so on, like I do, do yourself a favor. Don't eat any dough that has raw eggs in it. That nasty flu-bug I thought I had is Salmonella, and this is TERRIBLE. Pain, throwing up, and it's supposed to last till after Christmas :-( Especially yous with kids. Bad bad bad.

BTW--I am disappointed that TexasRed never showed up....this thread should have sent her completely over the edge.

Of course, I had to pull both hooves out of my maw in order to make that statement.)

:)

@Theresa: Thanks, I think?

Flukes are great, I loved learning about flatworms in biology, they were my favorite "critter" that we learned about.

Wolbachia are a really fascinating genus of bacteria, they can feminize male insects and make them lay eggs through parthenogenesis.

Sorry to hear that Erin.

@Theresa: What? Hooves taste good. That's why babies are always sucking on their toes. Obviously there is something quite tasty about feet...

Me thinks I'm trying too hard to be clever.

@Erin: I'm sorry to hear that you have Salmonella. That sucks. :(

"Wolbachia"

Did you just call me a wolf-bitch? ;)

I consider myself a hardliner as far as tactics go, but the more I think about this idea the more it bothers me.

Rae--you must have missed our exchange. TR was having a meltdown and resorted to some comment about me not being able to deliver Christmas goodies with both hooves in my maw....which I thought was totally hysterical! It will now be my battle cry...or maybe my Native American name:

"With Both Hooves in Maw"!

That's it...I'm changing my screen name to Hooves in Maw.

Can I do that?

Oops...I just did!

It looks better with hyphens.

Hooves, you are on a roll tonight.

Carrie:

Can you elaborate?

I mean elaborate about what bothers you...

@Hooves-in-Maw/Theresa: No, I saw that exchange, hence the reason I was trying to be funny about how hooves/feet taste good. :)

And no, I wasn't calling you a wolf-bitch...eep! No, "Wolbachia" is a genus of bacteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolbachia

Well, I am not really sure. I don't have a problem with protests at private homes. I guess that fact that it is Christmas. What MK said really had an effect on me too.

@ Rae: I know you weren’t calling me that! I was trying to be funny, but I guess it fell flat—sorry! I’m no biology major, but have some longtime friends who are biologists with the Nature Conservancy, and I never tire of hearing about weird little critters.

Your wolf-bitch bacteria are particularly cool!

@Carrie: I agree it’s a tricky one. Bit of a dilemma really.

Although I don't agree with it, I do feel for the plers that are going to do it. They are going to have one tough day.

Merry Christmas Theresa. I have to start on my Christmas Eve dinner prep.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Merry Christmas all...must go myself!

Nice chatting with you Rae!

--Hooves

Well, it's their first amendment right, so I'm not going to stop them. But I disagree with it. If they're trying to send a message to respect the sanctity of life, why would they consider sending it in a disrespectful way? And I don't care how passionate people are about the issue, Christmas--if one celebrates it--should be spent with one's family. Not out in the cold "trying to get a message across."

Gosh, it isn't even Christmas yet and I'm all Christmased out. Two celebrations down, three to go...

Jill why do you find it a good idea?

This is Will, the founder of CO Families Against Planned Parenthood. It's my idea to do these protests, including on Christmas, so I figure I should probably defend them. (I haven't read every post here yet, but I'll sure try.)

The main reason to protest at someone's home is not only to convince them to stop what they're doing, but more importantly, to discourage the next person from doing it. Protesting abortionist's homes has the abortion industry in a crisis. Med students aren't willing to become abortionist's because of the lifestyle that follows, including home protests. Yes, even on holidays. (Does a baby-killer deserve a peaceful holiday?)

Protesting the homes of contractors who are willing to construct a building that they know will be used to rip the arms and legs off of little children is serving the same purpose. Anyone who is willing to work for Planned Parenthood is complicit in the crimes Planned Parenthood commits. Contractors out here in Colorado are already turning down this project because there has been media coverage of our home protests. Yes, even on holidays. The news has given special attention to the fact that we will be out there on Christmas. Yes, even on Christmas.

We are sending a message to the world that it's not okay to make money off the backs of dead babies. Working for Planned Parenthood is no different than working for Adolf Hitler. Oh yeah, their excuses were very similar to many on this blog. "We were just doing our job." We will not have child killing in tranquility and believe me, the last thing I want to be doing is protesting on Christmas morning. But it's my duty for the unborn and the Lord. Contractors now and in years to come will not help Planned Parenthood build their abortion super centers because of our home protests. That's a victory.

"I am pro-life all year, I don't take holidays off. Sounds like a great way to show love to the unborn as well as remind contractors their efforts will prevent some from experiencing the joy of Christmas. Great idea."

I agree.

"Gosh, it isn't even Christmas yet and I'm all Christmased out. Two celebrations down, three to go..."

Well, as an unbeliever in Christ Jesus, why go.

Will D: The news has given special attention to the fact that we will be out there on Christmas. Yes, even on Christmas.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

...And the Westboro Baptist Church carries their "God Hates Fags" signs at military funerals, Yes, even at military funerals.

I think both you and the Westboro freaks have earned some "special attention."

Will,

I completely agree. Thank-you for all of hard work in defending unborn children.

Laura,

That comparison is a real insult. btw: The Westboro Baptist Church leader is a Democrat, like you.

@Jasper: But he's not a *real* Democrat. Kind of like how he's not a *real* Christian either. A Christian like you.

@Jasper: This is not to say you're like Fred Phelps, you aren't. But you identify as a Christian, correct? So does Fred Phelps. Laura identifies as a Democrat, so does Fred Phelps. Kinda the same dealie. He's not a real Democrat, nor is he a real Christian.

So why he's brought up, is beyond me. Crazy old fool, I look forward to celebrating when he croaks.

Christmas is a celebration of life - in fact it is the celebration of a baby being born. If someone is for abortion than they have already crushed in their hearts the goodness that is celebrated on Christmas.
Protesters could not crush the celebration of life, only the one who is against the sanctity of life could crush it in his or her own heart.

That comparison is a real insult. btw: The Westboro Baptist Church leader is a Democrat, like you.

Posted by: jasper at December 23, 2007 9:43 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ted Bundy was a Republican, like you!
Do you have something like a point?

Rae,

Well, the bad Laura brought up the ugly comparion of pro-lifers to the despicable Westboro Baptist Church.

"We are sending a message to the world that it's not okay to make money off the backs of dead babies"
You consistently send such a message. Christmas is still an inappropriate time to protest someone's personal home. There's a time and place to do things.

Good for Laura.

Don't stoop to her level then, Jasper.

why are all of these non-believers commenting on how Christmas is a bad time to protest. When they really don't care or believe Jesus....

jasper, how many people here who say this are unbelievers? Why don't we start a count.

hm...there's dan and laura and rae and doug.

So that's 4. Anyone else out there I'm missing?

I still "celebrate" Christmas.

I think it's a good time to get together with my family and friends and be grateful that I know so many wonderful people. :)

I fully agree with what Will D. uses as justification for the Christmas protests. The "volume" of the message sent will be even higher given the fact that it is being broadcast on Christmas Day.
Putting pressure on abortion clinic builders etc. should be a 365 days a year task.

Rae-

Oh absolutely! I was responding to the charge of being "unbelievers."

Besides the fact that a number of very religious people here are expressing opposition, I feel the charge that certain people just don't "deserve" to spend quality time with their family and friends is just appallingly elitist.

If 'unbelievers in Jesus' can't express the fact that such a protest is inappropriate this is another example of what the pro-life movement wants to avoid. That is, alienating people.

You guys are acting like Christmas is this club that only Christians deserve to celebrate. Maybe the meaning is different for people; nobody says that this can't be a time of spending some quality time with family and friends and appreciate them. And non-Christian theists must not be able to pray on the day either, right? They don't deserve it!

Anyway I think that whole charge is stupid.

"The "volume" of the message sent will be even higher given the fact that it is being broadcast on Christmas Day."
What message do you think will be sent to people? That prochoice people are a**holes? That's the message that will be sent to most of the people I think.

pro-life rather than pro-choice people are a**holes*

Jasper (and others), just because you don't believe in jesus doesn't mean you don't celebrate.
Christmas, for me as a non-christian, is the only time I get to spend with my ENTIRE family. And that is why it is celebrated.

To protest someone's home during that celebration is a terrible thing to do. If you really want to be respected and still want to do something, I would suggest, as others here have, a silent prayer vigil, or something.
That way, you could get your message across, and still allow other people (like the other families on the street) to celebrate.

Jasper, I do not recall EVER saying I am an unbeliever. Simply because I do not follow one doctrine doesnt make me an unbeliever. I do believe in God, and Jesus Christ, His Son and savior.

I square my beliefs how I square them, and they are between myself and God. He will do with me what He believes I deserve, and I will accept that when it comes. I have chosen my course, and He will do as He wishes based on my own decisions.

Even if I were an unbeliever, Christmas can be celebrated without being Christian simply for the belief in the message it sends- love and peace.

Jasper:

I dont remember Jill asking just the Christians to answer the question.

I also dont remember anyone saying that "non-believers" couldn't celebrate Christmas either.

Please inform me where I can find this specific information.
----------------------------------------

I am agnostic, and I still celebrate Christmas. I was raised as a Christian (Presbyterian Church USA). I am actually still a member at my church, but I do not attend services there. I would find that to be hypocritical, and I never try to be one of those people.

Christmas is a time for me to spend with my family and friends: the people that I love, people I am loyal to, and people I would die for if need be.

This time of year is one of two times I get to see my grandparents. They are old and will not be around much longer. I sit and talk with them about anything and everything, b/c I want them to know how much they mean to me. Just b/c I do not think there is a God, does not mean I should not be allowed to do these things. You are sounding like a bitter old man.
________________________________________
Christmas is a time for love, peace & forgiveness.

By protesting outside of these people's homes you are showing the world that (1)you do not follow your faith as you should (2)your an a--hole
(3)you have no dignity and (4)your lower than scum.

If this was simply a "prayer vigil", I'd have no problem with it. And before you ask, no, I do not pray; I haven't in years. I find it silly and useless, but I respect other's opinions on the matter.

A prayer vigil would show that the PL side has some class, and can show love, mercy and respect. Not to mention, y'all might gain some more followers and respect from the PC side.

If y'all show up with those god awful signs and actually protest, I will lose a lot of respect (some that was gained here) for y'alls side.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK, I am done with my rant now. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas (even you Jasper).

:-)

Will D, I don't agree with this, but I still support all your other efforts as leader of FAPP in Colorado. You guys are going to have a tough day on Christmas. I hope you guys are safe.:)

I am concerned for you safety Will D. Will you come on here to let us know that you made it through the day OK?

As for the talk about non-believers and Christmas, I was an atheist for 20 years and still celebrated Christmas. I just didn't celebrate it for the reasons that believers did. I thought of Christmas as a time for family,service to those in need etc...

Ummm...so my answer to the original question:

I think you should spend Christmas morning with your family and loved ones, not trying to vindictively ruin someone else's Christmas with their family and loved ones.

It's interesting to note that the reason for this protest would be to reach the consciences and hearts of pro choice individuals...

And all of the pro choicers on this site have said that a "picket"on Christmas would make them think of us as "unchristian"...

If the point is to show them Christ, and everyone of them has said that this would turn them away from Him, then I think you need to think very hard and long about what you are trying to accomplish.

If you are just going for shock value, then have at it. But if you are truly trying to change hearts, then you need to ask yourself, "Why are we doing this"?

Knowing your enemy is an important strategy in any war. Loving your enemy is the most important strategy in THIS war.

The question is, Do you want them to hate us, or join us?

I'm trying to give them something. It sounds like you are trying to take something away. I want them to see the truth and come to love their babies, as well as THE BABY this season.

The three wise men were not Jews. They did not belong to the "faith" and yet they came bearing "gifts" for the "other side"...The Jews however, killed one of their own.

Lyssie,

Went to Mass with my dad today, MK. :P
*
*hug*
*
Have a great Christmas, all.
Posted by: Lyssie at December 23, 2007 4:20 PM

Miracle number one and counting...

You've made an old broad very, very happy. And you made me cry!

I love you. Merry, Merry, Blessed, Blessed, Christmas...

PIP, Midnite, Dan, Rae,

OK, I didn't mean to offend you. I was just trying to understand why non-Christians celebrate Christmas. Thanks.

Jasper,

I think non-Christians celebrate Christmas because the Holy Spirit is working...

They may not "believe" in God, but they believe in "Love" and whether they realize it or not it is the same thing...

He believes in them, and has an effect on them, whether they realize it or not.

I certainly don't celebrate "Eid al-Fitr or Diwali...I don't believe in them. But I also don't think the "spirit" of them can touch me because I don't think it exists. I'm not "moved" to celebrate...

But even non-believers of Jesus' birth ARE moved, because the spirit is REAL...it affects them. It affects us all.

Miracle number two...non believers are "touched" and "moved" by the Christmas Spirit...

Have a very beautiful Christmas Jasper...
You're the best!

Will, Thanks for your leadership in Colorado. You are in my prayers as we fight the evil PP has brought to our community in Illinois.

Laura, more twisted logic with the westboro thing. Just when I think it can't get any more looney you post again. More insight into the minds of the pro-aborts.

Why all the non-believers defending their celebration of CHRISTmas? Seems to be bordering on hypocrisy.

Oh, and Merry Christmas to all...

MK,

Thanks so much for explaining that to me. I agree.

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Tim,

Becoming a Christian, a believer, is a journey. Who you meet on the path can mean the difference between continuing the journey or quitting and going home.

Why would I want to "hog" Christmas, or put "rules" on who can and who cannot celebrate it. You may be further along in your faith journey, but perhaps by celebrating one aspect of Christmas, a person will be moved to move a step or two more in their own journey.

My favorite line in any Christmas song is from O Holy Night, a song written by a non believer...

"Long lay the world, in sin and error pining...Til He appeared and the soul felt it's worth...A Thrill of hope and a weary world rejoices..."

This is not a gift for me alone. It is a gift offered to anyone willing to accept it. Let EVERYONE celebrate. Let EVERYONE be open to the possibility of hope. You never know which "Moment" will be the one...

Do you honestly want to turn people away simply because they are not as far along as you on their journey.

"Come in, Come in! Warm yourself! Have something to eat!"...This must be our response to the travelers.

Jasper,

You actually knew it already...
It's a fine line between "defending" our faith and "promoting" it. I understand.

But I think that this is the point of Christmas. To lay down the weapons and embrace the beauty. The simpleness of a baby...unarmed and unable to communicate in any but the simplest of ways. For one day of the year, it's all about open arms and a child's smile...bare bones, no frills, pure, innocent love...

The complications can come tomorrow...

Well said mk. I agree and would prefer all to celebrate Christmas. I just find it odd that there are some here who profess their non-beliefs and then defend their Christmas celebrations. That doesn't seem to be intellectually honest.

Merry Christmas

Tim,

But don't you think that what lives in the mind and what lives in the heart are not always the same thing. You can "say" that you don't believe, but isn't it possible that you are just "unaware" that you actually do believe?

Weren't most of those fires in California started from a single spark?

Tim,

And the Merriest Christmas to you too...

ABL, PiP: You asked why I think this picket is "proper and commendable." Several reasons.

I'll first say that MK does persuade me with her cookies suggestion, and the German/American analogy is also persuasive.

But the horror of what those people are facilitating overrides all that in my mind.

To picket on Christmas Day does almost seem sacriligious, but it's a day these people (and all pro-aborts) do not celebrate with the right understanding of it anyway. Seems to me a picket on Christmas Day stands a chance of helping them get it more than any other - the ghastly juxtoposition of celebrating Jesus' birth to their support of abortion.

I am concerned this picket will have the opposite impact, yet pickets on the other 364 days of the year appear not to compel them.

Also, this picket more than anything else done to date will impact those considering helping PP Denver - and any other around the country. I think that is my biggest reason for supporting it.

That said, I appreciate that other pro-life activists will disagree; there's a little of me that disagrees with myself on this one.

Jill,

I see where you are coming from, but just as they don't "celebrate with the right understanding of" Christmas, I think they will also not "get" the "juxtaposition" that you speak of.

They don't see Christ, they won't see the irony of abortion compared to Christ.

To properly understand the message that you are killing babies on a day meant to celebrate the birth of One, will be lost unless they accept the "reason" they are celebrating to begin with.

Am I making sense?

yet pickets on the other 364 days of the year appear not to compel them.

tsk, tsk...such a defeatist attitude...who says we are not "compelling" them the other 364? We might not see the fruits today, but seeds take a long time to germinate, let alone grow into plants.

Aren't we the ones that claim "unborn" babes like "seeds" are every bit as real as born babes and full grown plants?

Only time will tell if we are impacting the uninitiated or not...

Jill,

Merry Christmas my dear, dear friend! In the words of a child that would have been aborted in todays climate...

"GOD BLESS US EVERYONE"...

Jill, Your comment above is exactly why I have removed all links to this blog from my websites and blogs. While many of your articles have inspired me. I am under impression however that many of your articles are aimed at stirring up debates that often are heated with hatred. My goodness, if any of pro-lifers behave the same way in front of abortion mills as they do here- a lot of damage is being done. I think it is very unwise to encourage such protest. On Christmas of all days! If the other 364 days are not doing much good, maybe it is time to reevaluate one's tactic and approach? What if this executive is "post-abortive"? Did any one tried to talk to him ad explain what he is doing? If am not mistaken you've had written plenty about all the lies involved in Aurora. What if this executive has no idea he is helping PP? Aurora authorities were deceived, were they not? I would suggest to try establishing some sort of communication with him before considering this action. If it comes to it, I do hope it will not be Christmas day. I wish you luck but I do hope people in Denver will decide against this protest.

Vlad,

I do not understand why it is you think that Jill is the one stirring up these "heated debates filled with hatred." If you have read many of the comments there is very little hate on them from the PL side. If you read some of the other comments, however, they are filled with it. I also do not understand how you really can think that the abortion debate isn't a heated one anyway. It draws lots of emotions out in people regardless of what Jill posts. You constantly point the finger at pro-lifers and I really can't understand why that is since you claim to BE a pro-lifer.

It is heated already, and I am well aware of that. There is no need of hate in this debate. The fact that defenders of abortion hate us is not an excuse for us to hate them back. Christ certainly will not do that. I point my fingers to things that I believe prevent us from being successful 364 days a year.

Vlad,
You are such a drama queen!

Merry CHRISTmas, though!!!!

Elizabeth,
I am sure that I am no pro-lifer by your standards. I do however believe that God wants "post-abortive" people to heal first, so they in turn can free the wold from the evil of abortion.

Laura,

I will take "drama queen" over "Satan" any time. :)

Merry Christmas to you as well.

Jill,
Thanks for your response. Very interesting! After reading your post & Will's post, it got me thinking as to how many times I was at PP praying, protesting, etc. I remember some people that were there and said that God was leading them to do "this". There was a man standing there every day with the "gory" signs - he's been doing this for 15 years. He said that he was doing it because God has led him to do. I certainly do not know the hearts of those picketing in Colorado on Christmas day, but if God is REALLY leading them to do this, then I say "go for it"!

Like John McD said, I hope they have really prayed about this!

MK--

I just got caught up on today's posts and I want to say that you are very eloquent and thoughtful. I just started attending a new church about 6 weeks ago that I have really come to like. Yesterday morning I found out that on Wed. night there was a crash at the intersection of my church which killed one young man and seriously wounded 8 others. It actually pushed the cars into the church lawn. Thursday morning when the pastor found out he rallied the church and many individuals have donated time and resources to provide refreshments, fire-pits and counseling at the vigil that’s been going on informally (on the church lawn) at the scene since it happened. (up to 120 people there at any one time) The pastor himself has spent every day since Thursday travelling to four different hospitals and the business that is owned by the woman who caused the crash (as he said: no one is beyond the grace of God). He has even taken lead of the memorial service of the young man who perished at his parents’ request. All this has been done with no strings...none of these many folks go to this church and to the pastor’s knowledge, none of them are saved. The whole church has rallied in compassion knowing this is an amazing opportunity to witness and minister in sacrifice. I know a lot of churches (I’ve been to them!) who would have done NOTHING for any of these people….but this church seems to echo your sentiments about reaching out in Christ’s love. (And many of those churches who would have done nothing consider themselves “seeker churches”…you know, the one’s who say they welcome anyone and then teach you nothing. I know in this church if the opportunity arises to witness, these kids and their families will hear the real truth.) In fact, the pastor hadn’t even had any time to work on a Christmas sermon….his entire sermon yesterday was recounting the story with tears in his eyes.

That’s why I like this church….and I know I’d like you too!

I'd just like to say also that this question has prompted some of the best responses (as far as being thought out) that I’ve seen here so far. Of course there is some knee-jerk reaction from the usual suspects, but I think this has really stirred up some intelligent discourse from both sides!

Huzzah Jill!

Merry Christmas, eveybody. This was the front of my sister's card this year. Her kids, Andrew Douglas, Victoria Faith, and Nathan Scott.

I am sure that I am no pro-lifer by your standards. I do however believe that God wants "post-abortive" people to heal first, so they in turn can free the wold from the evil of abortion.

Vlad, are you a post abortive father?

Doug,

A Merry Christmas, happy new year, and happy holiday season to you and everyone on this blog. I think I covered all my bases and no one is offended!
The children are beautiful. Thank you. The eyes on that little girl!! My eye fixation strikes again!

It is heated already, and I am well aware of that. There is no need of hate in this debate. The fact that defenders of abortion hate us is not an excuse for us to hate them back. Christ certainly will not do that. I point my fingers to things that I believe prevent us from being successful 364 days a year.

Vlad, Elizabeth didn't even imply that she or anyone else here hated abortion supporters. In fact, if you would have read her post, she said the exact opposite. I suspect that you didn't even read her post before you replied.

Those children are beautiful! All of them...just gorgeous.

Merry Christmas Mary and to everyone.

That little boy on the right could be a model...talk about eyes!!

I agree with you AB laura! Vlad is a drama queen. What will we do without his lectures and admonishments? You also made a good point in your recent paragraph about the Christmas protest.

Carrie,
Thank you! Have a very, merry CHRISTmas!!!

Doug,
Your family is absolutely beautiful!!! I swear, every one of them can be models, including your niece which you've posted here before! Beautiful names that match these beautiful children!

Have a very, merry CHRISTmas!

HUZZAH!

I got to ope a gift early last night. And I got a brand new coffe and espresso/latte maker! It grinds the beans, and froths the milk! OOOOOHHHHH, I am going to be on en espresso high for months to come!
__________________________________________________
MK: I love ya, have a safe and happy holidays! I promise to come visit when it gets warm in Chicago again (Southern skin does not fair well in extreme cold).
---------------------------------------------
Bethany:
Happy Holidays to you too! I will find time to drive north to see you sometime in January :-) !!
--------------------------------------------------
To everyone else: Merry Chirstmas, Happy Holidays, Happy New Year!
__________________________________________________

I am off to see Santa drive by on a fire-truck for my friend's little boy. And tomorrow I leave for the beach, so I dont know how much time I'll have to check in over the next few days.

Midnite, I'm looking forward to it! :) Merry Christmas everyone. :)

Vlad, are you a post abortive father?

Bethany,

No, I am not. Would you treat me different if I was? If so, then treat every one the way you would treat me if I was post abortive father. You can't go wrong with that. :)

Vlad—nobody here would treat you differently regardless. I’m sure the only reason Bethany asked was to ascertain your point of view as it relates to your life experience…which is perfectly legitimate in this forum. If you’ve been on here for a while I’m sure you know the only thing that would be different if you were post-abortive is that you would receive many sympathies and prayer for your healing. And that’s not an appropriate way to “treat every one”….I am not post-abortive either, but wouldn’t appreciate someone treating me as though I was….it wouldn’t make any sense.

Thank you very much, hooves in law...you cleared my reasons for asking up quite nicely.

And I agree with your sentiments about being treated as though you're post abortive when you're really not. It definitely would not make sense.

Oops, I'm sorry. Your screen name is Hooves-in-Maw. I got that wrong the first time. :)

Hooves,

You would not appreciate to be treated with respect and love???

Well then. I have nothing more to say.

I am not saying you shoul should jump into offering prayers and support to every who comes here to comment. That is not what I am saying at all.

Just simple adherence to the golden rule will do, just fine.

On the other hand it would be better if prayers were offered to a non post abortive person, rather than calling a post abortive woman or man a baby killer, a satan, a possesed and all sorts of other names.

Just simple adherence to the golden rule will do, just fine.

Maybe you could start applying the golden rule when you speak to pro-lifers.

Our Denver FAPP brothers & sisters have proven to be of sober minds when tough decisions are in order. On this matter of picketing Christmas morning, it is not a haphazard thought. Rest assured, they have bathed it in prayer. Their plan is not sinful. They are trusting in God for the outcome. I commend them for their faithfulness and regret I am not able to join them. Let's hold them up in prayer for the rest of today and into tomorrow, whether we agree with this action or not...they need it!

The point is to embarrass those who are doing despicable things (and who know what they're doing and don't care), because only disrespect from others will make them change their minds.

You have to reach those people whose respect they most desire -- their neighbors, coworkers, family and church friends. The point of these protests is to let those people know their friend or relative is participating in the killing of small children. Let's see how proud they are of their death camps, then!

If Christmas is the only day when that message can be brought through, clearly and soundly, then it's the best day for a protest. I don't think God or Christ would disapprove of this noble act, standing up for His own most precious sons and daughters. These people are heroes!

Hmmmm….Vlad, I think they are right:

You are a drama queen. Either that or you are deliberately not paying any attention.

#1) I think it’s obvious that every PL’er on this board not only believes in, but follows the golden rule as it pertains to how the opposition is treated here. With the occasional exception of responding to directed provocation.…which can happen to anyone who is being poked with a stick…not to condone it, but we are human too.

#2) I’ve been watching this board for months and have yet to see any PL’er call anyone who’s had an abortion “baby-killer”, “Satan”, “possessed” or any other names. What I do see is compassion, empathy and a sincere desire for healing. I think if you are really paying attention what you will see here is that most acrimony tends to be directed at the perpetrators and proponents of abortion….post-abortive women and men are treated here as victims of this sinister industry as much as their aborted children are.

And please don't drag down your arguments with ridiculous rhetoric like “wouldn’t you like to be treated with love and respect?” I think the only valid response to that would be: “Well, DUH!” and I do prefer to try to keep the discourse on a level that offers more than superficial rhetorical vollies….

Greg,

I think you are definitely walking a fine line, but it sounds like you have got your priorities outlined and are walking with God on this one. I hope you have prayer warriors out there with you, and will be praying for your safety and effectiveness. Your motives and directives appear to be clear and I admire your boldness….even if I have mixed emotions about your tactics.

Bethany--can you tell me how to get your text to italicize? I haven't been able to get it to work...

Sure, no problem! ... I will have to email you though, because if I send you the code through a post, it will disappear when it is posted. :)

Can you send me an email, and then I can reply to it? My email is listed on the sidebar...just click on my name in the moderators list.
Thanks! :)

Actually, this may be easier...check out this website which tells you how to italicize, bold, and underline, etc...

http://www.annabella.net/basics.html#italics

Hopefully it'll help you out...if not, you're still free to send me an email and I can help you more! :)

Angela, I will definitely hold them up in prayer today and tomorrow. I am concerned about them and I hope that they are ok. I will pray for Will D. and the rest of the FAPP CO.

Vlad, isn't pride a sin? That's something that you seem to have in abundance.

"Vlad, are you a post abortive father?

Bethany,

No, I am not. Would you treat me different if I was? If so, then treat every one the way you would treat me if I was post abortive father. You can't go wrong with that. :)"

Vlad, of all people, Bethany always treats people with respect, pro-aborts and pro-lifers.

I think your problem is mostly with me here...and I see you still haven't forgiven me over the Satan comment. I'm not perfect, but I do know the Truth about abortion should not be hidden, but exposed. Planned Parenthood already does the job of hiding the truth about abortion. Again, the pictures are not to condemn people, but warn them.

I think picketing someones home shows the total lack of respect antichoicers have for everyone they dont agree with and just how self centered and inconsiderate they are. They dont care about family, they dont care about neighbors, they dont care about anyone but themselves. Then they whine 'but its for the baaaaaaabies'. It isnt. Its for themselves and their own control freak megalomania.

Yea!! TR finally showed up!!

;)

Bethany--thanks for the help, I'll check out that site once I get a break in the Christmas dinner prep!

Directed to TexasRed --
Every "thought" you wrote (posted: Dec 24th 1:08PM) is being repudiated by this author, on behalf of pro-lifers.
Let it be known that what you wrote is YOUR OPINION and NOTHING MORE.

Directed to TexasRed --
Every "thought" you wrote (posted: Dec 24th 1:08PM) is being repudiated by this author, on behalf of pro-lifers.
Let it be known that what you wrote is YOUR OPINION and NOTHING MORE.

Posted by: Angela at December 24, 2007 1:47 PM
****************
Not a single thing I pointed out is being repudiated and putting thought in quotation marks makes you look foolish. Let it be known that your opinion is worth exactly jack diddly squat as far as Im concerned. Antichoicers prove themselves to be egocentric, self centered, self absorbed, selfish and megalomaniacal time and time again. They wimper 'its for the babies' but it isnt. Its for their own self centered egocentric control freak megalomania. NO ONE should be ALLOWED to disagree with them! How laughable!

"If Christmas is the only day when that message can be brought through, clearly and soundly, then it's the best day for a protest."

It is not the only day. Why would they "get the message" more on Christmas than any other day protesting? The message isn't changing, and the only thing that will change is that pro-lifers seem more like jerks than previously thought.

An image we are trying very hard to erase.

As somebody already said, if you feel that protesting the other 364 days of the year hasn't been working, then protesting on Christmas isn't going to, either. It would be time to think about changing the strategy.

I just had a thought...what if the family you are protesting isn't home? Plenty of people go away for chirstmas...
Because if they aren't home, not only do you look like jerks, but you aren't accomplishing anything and just bothering all the neighbours....

"Why would they "get the message" more on Christmas than any other day protesting?"

to let know them how strongly we feel about the horror of abortion.

"The message isn't changing, and the only thing that will change is that pro-lifers seem more like jerks than previously thought."

Well PIP, you can worry about what other people think and we'll worry about the unborn children being slaughtered.

If hijacking Christmas to promote your political agenda is appropriate, wouldn't THIS be appropriate?:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2007/12/22/2007-12-22_man_protests_commercialized_christmas_by.html

Heck, the guy expressing himself on his own property!

jasper-

"to let know them how strongly we feel about the horror of abortion."
With all due respect they already have a good idea and a small quiet prayer vigil would send the same message in a more peaceful manner.

"Well PIP, you can worry about what other people think and we'll worry about the unborn children being slaughtered."

Well jasper, maybe you could explain to me how laws will be changed if we alienate and offend the people we need to be on our side.
Public thought needs to change-people need to see abortion for what it is- if we want abortion to be illegal. I'm sure they'd love to listen to our arguments when they think of us as "egocentric, self centered, self absorbed, selfish and megalomaniacal."

It's time you start thinking critically jasper. ;)

PIP,

Good question, I'll answer that in about 2 hrs. I have to go out now. thanks.. Merry Christmas.....

Merry Christmas to you too, jasper! I'm pretty excited. Any special plans for the holiday?

Well PIP, you can worry about what other people think and we'll worry about the unborn children being slaughtered.

Posted by: jasper at December 24, 2007 2:18 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You hate children.

Why else would you endorse waving a bloody, revolting fetus photo in a residential neighborhood?
You know that the children on that street will be out of school and launching their new bikes, Big Wheels, scooters, skates, and 'boards.

Puritanism. The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
H. L. Mencken

OK—this is for all us Megalomaniacs. Let us all say the pledge *raise hooves*:

(My apologies to Pixar)

“I am a nice Megalomaniac.
Not a mindless ego machine.
If I am to change this image I must first change myself…

Pro-abortionists are friends
--Not food.”

OK—I will start the testimonies.

Hi, my name is Hooves-in-Maw (ask TR)
It has been three weeks since I last ate a pro-abortionist.

ON MY HONOR!!

Or may I be chopped up and made into soup.

Liberalism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, might be taking responsibility for their actions.

hi, my name is prettyinpink
It's been 3 months since I ate a pro-abortionist.

On my honor, may my fashion sense and taste in men be faulty (truly a bad outcome indeed).

Oh, PIP--that's amazing!

Keep up with the program!

(Lest we need an intervention!)

lol I will try. Interventions take a lot of energy!

Yes indeed....we'd have to change your name to something horrible.

Like "Pretty in Gingham-Check" ;)

lol how horrible!

Regardless of whether it's Christmas or St. Patty's day, I think it's wrong to picket someone's house, particularly because they're not an abortionist or someone who had an abortion, but a construction worker.

Those people work VERY hard and often don't get a lot of work in the wintertime, so they struggle to make enough to take care of their families. If I was struggling, I would take the job. After all, it's just a building. I mean, saying a construction worker shouldn't build a clinic that MIGHT be used for abortions is like saying an atheist shouldn't build a church.

The building could change, too. Maybe one day (if abortion is made illegal) it will be used for something else, a dentist's office or something. Don't blame the construction workers for what happens in the buildings they make. They're just trying to make an honest living doing what they do best.

And their families don't deserve to be treated that way, on Christmas or any time of the year. That kind of radicalism harms families and makes pro-lifers look like jerks who have no family values.

I think people should have the right to protest, but there are boundaries and the privacy of a person's home is one of them. Not just on Christmas, but any time of the year.

Vlad, isn't pride a sin? That's something that you seem to have in abundance.

Carrie, How did you arrive to this conclusion? Hooves-in-Maw, I guess I just need to say thank you. Being called wice "drama queen" is much better than once being called Satan. Jasper, I did forgive you. It does not mean it did not leave a bad after taste or that I should forget. All, Have a Merry Christmas. Don't be afraid to change. ;)

To forgive sans forgetting is no different than not forgiving in the first place.

Walk your talk, Vlad.

Hi,
My name is MK and I haven't eaten a prochoicer since last night *burp*...well, I didn't actually eat one, just nibbled. But if we're going to be honest here...

And I chased a 90 year old prochoice old lady with my umbrella screaming "RUN, RUDOLPH, RUN!" but she got away.

I know I have a problem because it is affecting my family life. There is a pile of bones under my bed and just last night the dog choked on one.

And the 7 year old keeps looking at the jar of Pro choicers eyeballs that I keep on the dresser and asking me for a gumball...

I cannot stop alone. I need help and that's why I've come tonight...

Vlad, I don't think you're Satan. I do, however, think that you are a Pharisee.

To all the prochoicers on here that claim we never jump on one of our own, take note...

Forgive:
for·give (fr-gv, fôr-)
v. for·gave (-gv), for·giv·en (-gvn), for·giv·ing, for·gives
v.tr.
1. To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
2. To renounce anger or resentment against.
3. To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).

lol MK @ your pro-choicer eating post. LOL

Directed to TexassRed --
You wrote:
"Not a single thing I pointed out is being repudiated and putting thought in quotation marks makes you look foolish."

According to the American Heritage Dictionary:

re-pu-di-ate, verb

1. to reject as having no authority or binding force
2. to reject with denial
3. to reject with disapproval or condemnation
4. to reject emphatically as unfounded, untrue or unjust.

So listen up: Every "thought" you wrote (posted: Dec 24th 1:08PM) is being repudiated by this author, on behalf of pro-lifers.

It is all a matter of understanding language.

Just to clarify, since it seems some of the comments think these protests are directed toward construction workers -- they're not.

The protests are directed toward the homes of the tip-top Presidents and Vice Presidents of the companies responsible for building the abortion death camps. These are the people who would fire those modest construction workers simply for expressing a desire to not construct an abortuary out of concern for their mortal souls!

In fact, these presidents and vice presidents have lied to contractors, issued threats to make sure no one breaks their contracts (even though they were lied to), and some of those who have left the project for reasons of conscience now live in fear for their lives because of the vehemence of the threats against them by these presidents.

Weitz is evil, because the management has embraced the project wholeheartedly, have refused to listen to reason, and use questionable and likely illegal tactics to do their dirty work. The people who work for them may not be evil, but they associate themselves with the evil (just as did the German camp guards) by doing the bidding and not standing up to say, "This is wrong! I will not do this!"

OMG--MK!!

I bow to your powers of hilarity!!

I'm not worthy—I’M NOT WORTHY! *bowing with hooves outstretched*

(Now….May I have a gumball?)

And all pro-lifers here I am sure agree with you wholeheartedly too, Anonymous. Thanks for helping TR understand the English language a little better today.

Tomorrow's word check for TexasRed: "Megalomania".

...just place it between the clove, lest it roll off my outstretched hoof.

Directed to TexassRed --
You wrote:
"Not a single thing I pointed out is being repudiated and putting thought in quotation marks makes you look foolish."

According to the American Heritage Dictionary:

re-pu-di-ate, verb

1. to reject as having no authority or binding force
2. to reject with denial
3. to reject with disapproval or condemnation
4. to reject emphatically as unfounded, untrue or unjust.

So listen up: Every "thought" you wrote (posted: Dec 24th 1:08PM) is being repudiated by this author, on behalf of pro-lifers.

It is all a matter of understanding language. BTW, 1) it is no concern of yours whether or not I look foolish and 2) all you did the second time around is repeat your "thoughts" of old. Don't worry....be happy!!

Also, Edtyl, the building is being built so it cannot be used for other purposes (not entirely, anyway). It has "surgical" rooms for mass performance of abortions, and has an incinerator with a smokestack on the back, just like they had at Auschwitz. At least that's what I understand from those who have seen the blueprints.

Stick the babies in the oven, and up the smokestack they go! Do you realize that in Kansas, people protesting Tiller's center have the ash of burned babies falling upon them as they march around the block? It's disgusting. You surely don't want to associate yourself with these Nazi-like people, do you?

Greg--

Just be glad those tippy-top VP's don't have the power to toss us into a camp.

Yet...

Thank you for the clarification that blood money floats...right to the top of the rancid stew.

In fact Greg, I'm the one who posted way (hope my try at italics worked!) back there about not picketing, but being willing to join a prayer vigil out there....

You have officially changed my mind.
BTW--not an easy task...congrats. Too bad I'm stuck out hear on the "left coast" or I would join you tomorrow....I would still be a prayer warrior and not carry a sign...

But I would be there.

Blessings in your effort.

GREG: I commend your tenacity...God bless you!

BETHANY: It is my pleasure to take one by the hand and lead them out of the darkness. However, I do feel some "tugging" on this one, as I make the attempt! Thanks for your encouragement!

BETHANY: Just a moment ago, I read your shpeel on "forgive". So, we are two lovers of language here. Sorely needed.

To whoever wrote about the "smoke stack"...

I do believe that big mortuaries have these as well for people who want to be cremated. There neighbors will have "ashes" on them as well.

I've thunk about this some and am now for-it mainly because the Colorado group prayed diligently about it. There is a multitude of ways to make this into bad PR ... like, REALLY BAD PR. but they are still led to it ... then, good for you people (my brothers and sisters). As one soul who is now on the front lines of the euthanasia battle, I am more than pleased that this atrocity be carried right into homes (the media sure ain't doing it.) Oh: if some folks are disturbed by the harshness, I'll bet that the temple-tax-collectors were more than a little perturbed by a ragging Jesus overturning their money tables.

@Hooves-in-Maw ... wonderful, brilliant :) "Liberalism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, might be taking responsibility for their actions."

I do believe that big mortuaries have these as well for people who want to be cremated. There neighbors will have "ashes" on them as well.

Yes, but those people weren't forced to die by someone else's will.

BETHANY: Just a moment ago, I read your shpeel on "forgive". So, we are two lovers of language here. Sorely needed.

I completely agree.

Actually Bethany,

They could have died against their will. You do realize how many murders occur in the US each year correct?

Merry Christmas to you too, jasper! I'm pretty excited. Any special plans for the holiday?

staying home in the morning then going to my brothers house. thanks. hope you enjoy your Christmas.

"Well jasper, maybe you could explain to me how laws will be changed if we alienate and offend the people we need to be on our side."

shouldn't they be offended by the crime of abortion and not by people exposing the crime?

When I first saw what abortion really was, I wasn't offended at the people showing me the pictures, I was offended by abortion itself.

"I'm sure they'd love to listen to our arguments when they think of us as "egocentric, self centered, self absorbed, selfish and megalomaniacal."

Again, I disagree with your charateriztion of pro-lifers. It's really the opposite of what you discribed above. And, I really don't care what they think, I know pro-lifers are wonderful people.

Hooves - Great to hear! Thanks!

Midnite - As Bethany noted, these babies do not "want to be cremated"! And your comeback fell flat -- both murder and abortions are crimes in God's eyes. Both will be punished on judgement day, but our laws don't yet recognize abortion as murder. I pray they someday will.

Actually Bethany,
They could have died against their will. You do realize how many murders occur in the US each year correct?

Yes, Midnite, of course I'm aware of that.. :-S

But so far, I'm not aware of any other organization which involves killing innocent people first, then cremating them second. Do you?

Most people who are being cremated in mortuaries, if murdered beforehand, were not killed legally, and have had some sort of justice (ie. the murderer is being sought, or has been found, and been given a just penalty for his deeds). This isn't the case with PP.

Using your analogy about moratoriums is almost the exact same as if someone had said something about the holocaust grave sites, how horrific they were, and your reply was, "Well, I happen to know that other graves have human bodies in them- what makes these graves so much worse?" Do you see what I am saying? Now, I need to ask you to please not take this above analogy to mean that I am saying that you support the holocaust or anything like that. Please do not miss the actual intended message I am trying to get you to see here.

Obviously, the reason the holocaust graves were so much worse were because of the nature of the crimes that were committed (legally) against the Jews, etc- ... and the reason that these mentioned crematoriums are so dreadful, is because every single baby who ashes are there, was killed unjustly (and legally) by the hands of others people who felt they were also less worthy of life.

WAA WAA WAA!! I THINK ITS WRONG!! WAA WAA WAA!!

Look you whiners, Enyart and the gang have promoted making a law against protesting outside someone's home. They promoted such a law around 6 years ago just after I had visited them and went with them to protest outside of an abortionist's home.

Their request to bring up and vote on such a law was shot down by both Republicans and Democrats because they thought that such a law would not stand because they claimed that this law would be found unconstitutional.

What they did instead was to demand that the protesters keep moving along a path rather than stand still in the cul-de-sac. Of course, this changed nothing really, but at least the Christ-hating liberals felt a little better about it.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Here is some evidence from an abortionist that the holiday abortionist home visits have had an effect on the abortion industry as far as recruiting new abortionists goes. I expect the same effect for those contractors and companies that work to build killing centers (and that same positive effect is what we have seen so far in Denver).

READ THIS from the recent LA Times article.

"None of you will be an abortion provider," he told the students. "You don't have it in you."

"Do something else. Fix broken legs," he often advises. "No reasonable person would do this."

"Liberalism is a mental disorder"....

I think we have a member of the Savage-Nation among us!!

(I have it on good authority that Hooves is a "Savagette"....)

FYI - that quote from the article was from abortionist Warren Hern who Enyart and friends protest in the Denver area.

"staying home in the morning then going to my brothers house. thanks. hope you enjoy your Christmas."
I'm off to my grandma's after presents for dinner. Have a good one!

"shouldn't they be offended by the crime of abortion and not by people exposing the crime?"
Well I could say, "You big fat stupid idiot, why don't you listen to my argu