I reported last week that Ann, Joe, and Eric Scheidler, and Jeff Eschbach were planning to travel to Denver this past weekend to rally the troops to fight Planned Parenthood building its new largest mill in the Mile High City.
Keith Mason provided me with details of the action.
The above photo is of nearly 300 people picketing outside the proposed abortuary Saturday morning. (That's Eric Scheidler speaking into the megaphone, with Joe's hat to his left.)
As planned, the rally moved to the nearby Radisson. Fortunately, the hotel was under contract, because PP tried to shut the pro-life event down by calling the hotel and saying it would be hosting America's most renown anti-abortion extremist....
(More photos on page 2.)
The event coordinator called Keith 5 days before the rally and said they had to hire four security guards, which doubled event costs. Here's a photo of America's most renown anti-abortion extremist, Joe Scheidler, speaking at the hotel:
After the wildly peaceful hotel rally, America's most renown anti-abortion extremist and pals moved on to picket the neighborhood of PP's general contractor, Weitz president Bill Hornaday. This was the latest of many, which Keith reported have been going well with pressure high.
The wear and tear on this community with an abortuary builder in its midst was evidenced when the chief of police and a lieutenant insisted on meeting organizer Will Duffy at his home the day before the rally.
Will told them the only two ways protests would cease were "if Bill snapped his fingers to end his involvement with the building, or if Bill moved, in which case protesters would follow him to his new house." Duffy reported, "the eyes of the officers got big" when he said house protests would go on as long as PP killed kids at the mill, if Bill continued to build it.
As for progress with slowing the building down, Keith reported, "We are now up to three contractors that have quit! Not including three laborers who literally threw down their shovels and walked off the job when a few pro-lifers explained to them what they were a part of. Praise God!"
Comments:
Denver -- Keep up the God work.
God Bless,
Roger
Good news and thanks for the recap. I needed something to cheer me up a little bit after reading this:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/677832,CST-NWS-abort03.article
Why oh why can't this be one of the cuts made at Cook County?
Posted by: Michael at December 4, 2007 11:50 AMDo these people have marketable skills?
Perhaps we could find them work
(It must be tough to be unemployed around Christmas. That's probably why they're hounding people who have real jobs. Envy is an ugly thing...)
Posted by: Laura at December 4, 2007 12:37 PMBoy, you know you're doing something wrong when the "Truth Truck" shows up...Gosh, I LOVE that truck!
Posted by: AB Laura at December 4, 2007 12:47 PMMichael,
Stroger must be really patting themselves on the back on that one!
Posted by: carder at December 4, 2007 1:40 PMYes! this is great! excellent!
Posted by: jasper at December 4, 2007 2:01 PMLaura,
In case you missed it, or are unaware of the workdays of most 40 hour jobs, the rally was held on a Saturday. Saturday and Sunday are two days when many people who work are free to do what they need to or desire. It's called a weekend.
/end sarcasm
In all seriousness Laura, your repeated comments in this manner show how much you envy the prolife movement for being able to rally so many people so frequently, unlike Planned Parenthood, which struggles to get 2 people to any event and is thrilled if they get 10.
Posted by: Michael at December 4, 2007 2:08 PMIn all seriousness Laura, your repeated comments in this manner show how much you envy the prolife movement for being able to rally so many people so frequently, unlike Planned Parenthood, which struggles to get 2 people to any event and is thrilled if they get 10.
Posted by: Michael at December 4, 2007 2:08 PM
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Gee, I remember a recent pro-choice rally that was the largest in DC history - perhaps American history - at over 1,000,000:
http://images.indymedia.org/imc/washingtondc/media/image/13/25cnd_march.6.large.jpg
Pro-choice people can't do that every day as they tend to place greater value on education, want to spend more time with their families, and apparently are more likely to be employed. (I have a lovely list of "pro-life" activists who have been tagged for being "deadbeat dads.")
Posted by: Laura at December 4, 2007 2:25 PMActually Laura that march was estimated at 500,000 TO 1,000,000. NOT over 1,000,000. And I think that was in 2004?
PLs have a march each year in January on the anniversary of Roe v Wade, and while that's going on in D.C. they also organize marches at the state capitals with thousands.
Posted by: Kristen at December 4, 2007 2:39 PMPro-choice people can't do that every day as they tend to place greater value on education, want to spend more time with their families, and apparently are more likely to be employed.
------------------------------------------------
Statistics, please. I'm calling you out on these. Put up or shut up.
Posted by: Michael at December 4, 2007 2:52 PMI love the Scheidler's. They rock. AND I love the "Truth Truck." Although I shield my daughter's eyes whenever it drives by us..at 2 year's old..that may be a little too much to handle.
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 4, 2007 3:06 PMLaura,
Pro-choice people can't do that every day as they tend to place greater value on education, want to spend more time with their families, and apparently are more likely to be employed.
Posted by: Laura at December 4, 2007 2:25 PM
Ridiculous stereotyping. Obviously the education isn't doing much good if they can't grasp the value of human life.
Posted by: hippie at December 4, 2007 5:12 PMPro-choice people can't do that every day as they tend to place greater value on education, want to spend more time with their families, and apparently are more likely to be employed.
Their families are dead.
Posted by: mk at December 4, 2007 5:52 PMTheir families are dead.
Posted by: mk at December 4, 2007 5:52 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Really? Nancy Pelosi has 5 kids. They seem fine.
Posted by: Laura at December 4, 2007 7:17 PM5 alive....
Posted by: AB Laura at December 4, 2007 7:27 PM5 alive....
Posted by: AB Laura at December 4, 2007 7:27 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What the hell does that mean?
Posted by: Laura at December 4, 2007 7:29 PMPro-choice people can't do that every day as they tend to place greater value on education, want to spend more time with their families, and apparently are more likely to be employed.
Their families are dead.
Posted by: mk at December 4, 2007 5:52 PM
..................................................
Ridiculous and childish mk.
Posted by: Sally at December 4, 2007 8:14 PMEric Scheidler speaking into the megaphone
Hmmm.... Could be, but that top picture looks like the Invisible Man.
Posted by: Doug at December 4, 2007 8:25 PMPro-choice people can't do that every day as they tend to place greater value on education, want to spend more time with their families, and apparently are more likely to be employed.
Their families are dead.
Posted by: mk at December 4, 2007 5:52 PM
..................................................
Ridiculous and childish mk.
Posted by: Sally at December 4, 2007 8:14 PM************************* Right. And diplomas mean jack sh*t!
Posted by: heather at December 4, 2007 10:00 PMAnd diplomas mean jack sh*t!
The haunting spectre of David Reardon once again appears...
And diplomas mean jack sh*t!
The haunting spectre of David Reardon once again appears...
Posted by: Doug at December 4, 2007 10:17 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Shhhhhhhhhh, Doug-
Don't discourage her. I retire in 15 years, and I can hire her kids to pick up the dog turds and mow my lawn.
Right. And diplomas mean jack sh*t!
Posted by: heather at December 4, 2007 10:00 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why don't you share that with Jaque and PIP and Bobby and Elizabeth and everyone else on this board working their butts off to earn their degrees.
Your venom reeks of envy.
Sally,
Ridiculous and childish mk.
I agree. Killing your unborn children is most definitely ridiculous and childish. Not too mentions twisted, sick and perverted. Did I mention horrifying?
Posted by: mk at December 5, 2007 5:52 AMSo Laura,
Who picks up your dog turds now?
Your kids?
Or do you hire cheap labor from Mexico,exploiting those people, from your inability to pick up after yourself and your dogs.?
In the end Laura, you've got the mind of a poor.
That's why you advocate murdering babies in the womb, your a product/result/sum of, of your poverty Laura.
Just like that poor Sanger was hired by the rich to do their wishes, by hiring a poor, to convince the poor, to murder their own.
Pro-choice people can't do that every day as they tend to place greater value on education, want to spend more time with their families, and apparently are more likely to be employed.
Their families are dead.
.......................................
Posted by: mk at December 4, 2007 5:52 PM
Ridiculous and childish mk.
I agree. Killing your unborn children is most definitely ridiculous and childish. Not too mentions twisted, sick and perverted. Did I mention horrifying?
Posted by: mk at December 5, 2007 5:52 AM
..........................................................
All your hysteria aside, most of us PC folks have families. To make the assertion that all family members of people that share the belief that gestation is a choice, are dead, is really ignorant mk. What is horrifying is the immaturity of such blatantly false remarks.
But then hysterical falsehoods are the platform for your stance
Pro-choice people can't do that every day as they tend to place greater value on education, want to spend more time with their families, and apparently are more likely to be employed.
Their families are dead.
Posted by: mk at December 4, 2007 5:52 PM
..................................................
Ridiculous and childish mk.
Posted by: Sally at December 4, 2007 8:14 PM************************* Right. And diplomas mean jack sh*t!
Posted by: heather at December 4, 2007 10:00 PM
..............................................
Flunked vacation Bible school again?
Posted by: Sally at December 5, 2007 8:44 AMSally,
But then hysterical falsehoods are the platform for your stance
Where is all the animosity coming from...I never meant to imply that all the "family members that were pro choice" were dead. Only the ones that were aborted...sheesh!
Posted by: mk at December 5, 2007 8:55 AMI never meant to imply that all the "family members that were pro choice" were dead. Only the ones that were aborted...sheesh!
Posted by: mk at December 5, 2007 8:55 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The quote was; "Their families are dead."
Posted by: Laura at December 5, 2007 9:28 AMWhy don't you share that with Jaque and PIP and Bobby and Elizabeth and everyone else on this board working their butts off to earn their degrees.
Your venom reeks of envy.
Posted by: Laura at December 5, 2007 2:59 AM
*************************************************************** Get the snot out of your ears you dumb butt! I meant that a DIPLOMA means jack sh*t over killing an innocent person! Besides, why do you always accuse me of being envious? You don't know a thing about me.
I think you are the one who is filled with envy. Why are you on a pro life site? Why bother? Nobody is even looking at the garbage you post. You are always off topic!! You can't handle it when I post about perverted abortionists. You are a bit slow for having an education. Plus+++ you're a bored hag!
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 9:32 AMoh, i'm beginning to sound like Texas Red. I hope I don't talk her up.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 9:34 AMLaura is a stalker.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 9:39 AMAND FOR THE LAST TIME!!! I HAVE A DIPLOMA, SO SHUT UP!
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 9:46 AMWhy don't you share that with Jaque and PIP and Bobby and Elizabeth and everyone else on this board working their butts off to earn their degrees.
Your venom reeks of envy.
Oh, like I'm sure you care sooooo much!
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 9:52 AMSally,
But then hysterical falsehoods are the platform for your stance
Where is all the animosity coming from...I never meant to imply that all the "family members that were pro choice" were dead. Only the ones that were aborted...sheesh!
Posted by: mk at December 5, 2007 8:55 AM
...........................
Ask Bethany about animosity. She seems to be having quite the melt down.
What would be your point in the obvious statement that an aborted conceptus would be dead? You cannot determine who or what is considered family for anyone but yourself.
Ask Bethany about animosity? Okay, then ask Sally about stupidity.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 10:53 AMAsk Bethany about animosity? Okay, then ask Sally about stupidity.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 10:53 AM
............................................................
Off your meds Bethany?
Posted by: Sally at December 5, 2007 11:32 AMSally, that was from me. LOL!
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 11:38 AMHeather,
I used to think degrees and professional licenses etc were some big deal until I earned several myself. One of my best friends only has a tenth grade education and she is the smartest person I know. Some of the high school (and even middle school) students I taught were smarter than some of my university professors.
Degrees don't make you smart and they don't make you good. They can help you get a job and work the system.
Hippie, Thank you. There isn't anything wrong with a woman getting an education, but to abort your child in order to do that is stupidity at it's best! Besides, you CAN do both if you want to. Who will be at your bedside when you take your dying breath? Your diploma? One more thing. I thought that abortion was supposed to free up women so they could go to school. The "cure all" to your problems. Well, I know quite a few 50 something year olds who haven't managed to do crap with their lives, and they all have something in common. They have all had abortions.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 12:00 PMHeather,
I used to think degrees and professional licenses etc were some big deal until I earned several myself. One of my best friends only has a tenth grade education and she is the smartest person I know. Some of the high school (and even middle school) students I taught were smarter than some of my university professors.
Degrees don't make you smart and they don't make you good. They can help you get a job and work the system.
Posted by: hippie at December 5, 2007 11:52 AM***************************************************************************************************************************************************** HIPPIE, I also KNOW many people like the one you have described. The smart 10th grader, that is. I have met plenty of doctors who where utter nit wits!!!! I also take a good look at the utter stupidity of some these politicians.
hippie, I gotta add this. Have you ever met the college educated woman who quips "I would rather go back to being a waitress." ......... I have met them time and time again. Education is good, but it's not the most important thing.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 12:25 PMHippie, Thank you. There isn't anything wrong with a woman getting an education, but to abort your child in order to do that is stupidity at it's best! Besides, you CAN do both if you want to. Who will be at your bedside when you take your dying breath? Your diploma? One more thing. I thought that abortion was supposed to free up women so they could go to school. The "cure all" to your problems. Well, I know quite a few 50 something year olds who haven't managed to do crap with their lives, and they all have something in common. They have all had abortions.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 12:00 PM
...................................................
Yup. The only 'crap' I've done is raise kids since that's what I did instead of furthering my education. My advice to young women is to not have kids unless you can afford to raise them yourself. That usually requires an education.
Posted by: Sally at December 5, 2007 12:46 PMSally said, "Yup. The only 'crap' I've done is raise kids since that's what I did instead of furthering my education. My advice to young women is to not have kids unless you can afford to raise them yourself. That usually requires an education."
-------------------
Or just a great, big bunch of blessings from our loving God! He ALWAYS provides!
Yup. The only 'crap' I've done is raise kids since that's what I did instead of furthering my education. My advice to young women is to not have kids unless you can afford to raise them yourself. That usually requires an education.
Posted by: Sally at December 5, 2007 12:46 PM************************** So, what did women do back in the days where the men worked, and women stayed home to raise kids? Oh how tragic!!
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 1:14 PMHeather,
My friend had two abortions to stay in college. She graduated with a 2.0 in English, worked as a nanny for a year. Finally, I got one of my friends to give her a good job. She stayed six months and got married, had three kids and has not worked outside her home since her first baby was born. What big impact did that education have? I have many friends who got degrees and only worked a couple of years. They wanted to stay home with their kids. If they were so interested in careers why did they spend less than five years in their jobs?
Posted by: hippie at December 5, 2007 2:16 PMHippie, right. My old neighbor and acquaintance also had 2 abortions while in her 20's. She's 54 years old now. She works as a cashier in a drug store. She makes minimum wage. She shacked up with a guy in his late 40's. He doesn't treat her very well. She settles. I asked her one day if she ever regretted her abortions. I was astounded when she replied "God, yes!" "I'm going to die alone." I never realized she had regret.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 2:39 PMI also had asked this woman why she chose abortions. She replied "My dad wanted me to go to college." She did get some schooling in, and then she dropped out. I know she's lonely. I wonder how her life might be had she not had abortions. Maybe she'd have 2 kids who'd love her to death, instead of a slave driving, emotionally abusive b/f.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 2:45 PMIs EVERYONE you know a total loser?
We all know 2 or 3 losers, but you seem to run in a vast, thundering herd of them.
I now know you too. That makes 4.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 2:51 PMLaura, what makes you feel like such a winner? The way you act makes you a total loser!
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 2:53 PMLaura, there are times I think that your parents treated you the way you treat us. Maybe you were programmed this way.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 2:55 PMWhy don't you share that with Jaque and PIP and Bobby and Elizabeth and everyone else on this board working their butts off to earn their degrees.
Your venom reeks of envy.
Posted by: Laura at December 5, 2007 2:59 AM********************* AND why don't you ask them all if they would choose life over education.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 3:00 PMLaura,
Maybe it's just that Heather, with her outgoing & witty personality, has many, many more friends than you could ever imagine?
I'm not saying this to demean you in any way, please don't misundersand my statement.
Maybe it's just that Heather, with her outgoing & witty personality, has many, many more friends than you could ever imagine?
Posted by: AB Laura at December 5, 2007 3:35 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of COURSE! It's her witty personality!
That must be it...
Yup. The only 'crap' I've done is raise kids since that's what I did instead of furthering my education. My advice to young women is to not have kids unless you can afford to raise them yourself. That usually requires an education.
Posted by: Sally at December 5, 2007 12:46 PM************************** So, what did women do back in the days where the men worked, and women stayed home to raise kids? Oh how tragic!!
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 1:14 PM
................................
My mother read a lot. Then dad died. With her 10th grade education she ended up bookeeping for the SA center for recovering alcoholics, settled for less and married an abusive nut job.
Oh, and I stayed home and raised the kids until hubby took a hike. Ended up working at Wal-Mart with my 12th grade education and settling for less and marrying an abusive.
Yes indeed. What did women do when they weren't allowed to work?
Well, my girlfriend is allowed to work, and she works at Drug Mart.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 6:55 PMWell, my girlfriend is allowed to work, and she works at Drug Mart.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 6:55 PM
.............................
Did you have a point?
Posted by: Sally at December 5, 2007 6:59 PMYes. She works at Drug Mart, and she had 2 abortions while she was in her 20's. Now she's 54. Where is her fabulous education?
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 7:34 PMYou know, the fantastic education that's supposed to follow after you kill your children?
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 7:36 PMYes. She works at Drug Mart, and she had 2 abortions while she was in her 20's. Now she's 54. Where is her fabulous education?
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 7:34 PM
.............................
One actually has to attend school to get one Heather.
Posted by: Sally at December 5, 2007 7:44 PMYou know, the fantastic education that's supposed to follow after you kill your children?
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 7:36 PM
.....................................
I hear tell that a fine education can be had in prison.
Posted by: Sally at December 5, 2007 7:45 PMSally, she did attend school. It wasn't for her.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 7:47 PMHave you ever met the college educated woman who quips "I would rather go back to being a waitress." ......... I have met them time and time again.
Heather, you certainly are not afraid to say what you think.
Doug
Posted by: Doug at December 5, 2007 9:33 PMI chose LIFE over education. I was a sophomore in college in a MUSICAL THEATRE/DANCE Major when I got preggo. I had my daughter, now I go to school for nursing AND schedule classes around my daughter (by taking some online and some on-campus). Sure, it wasn't my original plan in life but my life rocks way more now than it ever did. I'm learning about stuff I really am interested in and have a wonderful child I get to be a mother to. It involves being unselfish and self-motivated....something not many people can even grasp on to now-a-days.
"Choosing OUR life over YOUR life meant YOUR death"
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 5, 2007 11:43 PMI chose LIFE over education. I was a sophomore in college in a MUSICAL THEATRE/DANCE Major when I got preggo. I had my daughter, now I go to school for nursing AND schedule classes around my daughter (by taking some online and some on-campus). Sure, it wasn't my original plan in life but my life rocks way more now than it ever did. I'm learning about stuff I really am interested in and have a wonderful child I get to be a mother to. It involves being unselfish and self-motivated....something not many people can even grasp on to now-a-days.
"Choosing OUR life over YOUR life meant YOUR death"
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 5, 2007 11:43 PM
...................................................................
Elizabeth,
You made your choice and are making the best of it. You've set your sites lower for yourself and will make do for your daughter and pretend that you never had any ambition for yourself.
OR just admit that you really never did have any ambition. There is nothing wrong with turning away from a future you never really wanted.
Do you have larger hopes for your daughter than you do yourself?
I wonder if Eric Scheidler has ever seen "The Invisible Man" with Claude Rains....
Posted by: Doug at December 6, 2007 7:49 AMThey had some good, fine-grained photographic film in the 1930s - in one lens of the goggles you can see the reflection of a camera operator.
Posted by: Doug at December 6, 2007 7:54 AMSally,
That was truly uncalled for. Elizabeth, I fear, is doing way too well for herself for you to say that she's "set her sights lower". It's evident that she is very happy with her life, and though it might be different from what she originally imagined, it's working out nicely. I daresay that going from a Musical Theatre/Dance major to a nursing/health major is "settling for lower". While nurses will always be in demand, many theatre and dance students will often be out of work for long periods of time. AND, as a biology major myself, I'm pretty sure she'll find her science courses to be fascinating and intellectually-stimulating. I know I do, and I wish her every luck imaginable. I'm glad she's doing what's best for her and her daughter.
*hug to Elizabeth*
YOU GO GIRL!!! *does victory dance*
Posted by: Lyssie at December 6, 2007 8:10 AMSorry, typo in my comment above...it should say "I daresay that going from....is NOT "settling for lower". Sorry, Elizabeth. :D
Posted by: Lyssie at December 6, 2007 8:12 AMElizabeth, isn't it always so much fun being insulted day after day:]? [See above posts from Laura to me]
Posted by: heather at December 6, 2007 8:13 AMSally,
Changing your goals is not setting your sights lower.
Being a good parent and a nurse is not only a worthy and lofty goal, it is also challenging and ambitious.
It shows that you adapt your goals to fit your life. Being a good mom does more good for society than many jobs for which you have studied etc. I know women who have quit these professional jobs to be moms. Two were dentists, one a petroleum engineer and my own personal physician sold her practice to stay home. It is okay for people to say they want something different from life. Would you say to my friends that they are setting their sights lower because they quit to do what they love and value? Do you think they are "making the best of it" ? Maybe I am taking what you said the wrong way. I just think that when people set their sights high that means doing what they really want and not succumbing to social pressure that says you have to have this or that job or social pressure to stay in the kitchen. It is not like women in certain jobs are better or even smarter than women who are in other jobs or who stay home. Some women's ambition is to be good moms. Even though patriarchal male referencing culture says that is not a worthy ambition, I think it is quite a challenge. Just because someone changes goals doesn't mean they have little ambition. I mean ambition here in the positive sense of course. I think your point about recognizing that a path you have set might not be what really want is a very astute observation. I saw many of my students set goals and then realize that it wouldn't really work for them. It wasn't really what they wanted even though at first they thought it was.
Posted by: hippie at December 6, 2007 8:14 AMheather,
I don't know about Sally, but Laura says she likes to stop by to
"poke the hyenas". She doesn't like us so she wants to say something to rile us. Maybe that is the reason for the insulting tone of her posts. Anyone can post their opinion and hold to their conviction without being condescending.
Doug,
You are a lovable lunatic! Eric Scheidler as the Invisible Man...hehehe.
Posted by: mk at December 6, 2007 8:41 AMHippie, thank you. I'm told that this often happens when they can't think of anything intelligent to say. I'm beginning to see a pattern.
Posted by: heather at December 6, 2007 9:30 AMSure, it wasn't my original plan in life but my life rocks way more now than it ever did. I'm learning about stuff I really am interested in and have a wonderful child I get to be a mother to.
Elizabeth, I am glad to hear that. Here's hoping for good luck for you and your daughter.
I hear you on the "original plan" changing, too - I never could have predicted how things have gone, but looking back it now makes pretty good sense.
Best,
Doug
Posted by: Doug at December 6, 2007 11:41 AMSally,
Changing your goals is not setting your sights lower.
Being a good parent and a nurse is not only a worthy and lofty goal, it is also challenging and ambitious.
It shows that you adapt your goals to fit your life. Being a good mom does more good for society than many jobs for which you have studied etc. I know women who have quit these professional jobs to be moms. Two were dentists, one a petroleum engineer and my own personal physician sold her practice to stay home. It is okay for people to say they want something different from life. Would you say to my friends that they are setting their sights lower because they quit to do what they love and value? Do you think they are "making the best of it" ? Maybe I am taking what you said the wrong way. I just think that when people set their sights high that means doing what they really want and not succumbing to social pressure that says you have to have this or that job or social pressure to stay in the kitchen. It is not like women in certain jobs are better or even smarter than women who are in other jobs or who stay home. Some women's ambition is to be good moms. Even though patriarchal male referencing culture says that is not a worthy ambition, I think it is quite a challenge. Just because someone changes goals doesn't mean they have little ambition. I mean ambition here in the positive sense of course. I think your point about recognizing that a path you have set might not be what really want is a very astute observation. I saw many of my students set goals and then realize that it wouldn't really work for them. It wasn't really what they wanted even though at first they thought it was.
Posted by: hippie at December 6, 2007 8:14 AM
.................................................
Changing your goals most certainly can and often does involve setting them lower. If you chose to be a mother, being a good one is only being responsible for that choice.
You speak of women with educations that they can call upon when their children are grown or can fall back upon if they need to support them on their own.
Blowing off an education to raise children puts a woman in a very precarious position. Not to mention the animosity she might feel towards her family for doing what others want her to do rather than what she wants to do.
Patriarchal society says that women are too stupid to make decisions over their own bodies and should adjust their lives to suit such society's whims over how they should live their lives.
Really, Sally, what have you been smoking?!
Civilized society says that no one, male or female, should have the right to impose murder on an innocent person. The unborn are innocent. Those who participate in their murders are not.
Many women whose lives were ended by submitting to "safe, legal" abortions at the whim of killers who couldn't make the grade in legitimate medical practice would gladly readjust their lives to suit the "whims" of a civilized society...if only they could.
And here's another breaking newsflash:
RAISING CHILDREN IS AN EDUCATION IN ITSELF...especially for those moms who choose to homeschool. If you had tried it, you would know much more than you do about a lot of things.
Here are a few of them:
MOTHERHOOD: The most creative, demanding, and important job in the world. It involves fashion, interior decorating, recreation, education, transportation, psychology, horticulture, romance, cuisine, literature, art, economics, bookkeeping, sanitation, government, hospitality, pediatrics, geriatrics, entertainment, maintenance, purchasing, law, religion, energy and management.
Over one hundred years ago, G.K. Chesterton asked: "Can anyone tell me two things more vital to the race than these; what man shall marry what woman, and what shall be the first things taught to their first child?" Chesterton goes on to comment that: "the daily operations surrounded her with very young children, who needed to be taught not so much anything but everything. Babies need not to be taught a trade, but to be introduced to a world. To put the matter shortly, a woman is generally shut up in a house with a human being at the time when he asks all the questions that there are, and some that there aren't...Our race has thought it worth while to cast this burden on women in order to keep common-sense in the world....But when people begin to talk about this domestic duty as not merely difficult but trivial and dreary, I simply give up the question. For I cannot with the utmost energy of imagination conceive what they mean....If drudgery only means dreadfully hard work, I admit the woman drudges in the home, as a man might drudge (at his work)....But if it means that the hard work is more heavy because it is trifling, colorless, and of small import to the soul, then I say give it up...."
How can it be an (important) career to tell other people's children about mathematics, and a small career to tell one's own children about the universe?...A woman's function is laborious...not because it is minute, but because it is gigantic. I will pity Mrs. Jones for the hugeness of her task; I will never pity her for its smallness.
Susannah Wesley's Rules For Raising Children:
1. Subdue self-will in a child and thus work together with God to save his soul.
2. Teach him to pray as soon as he can speak.
3. Give him nothing he cries for and only what is good for him if he asks for it politely.
4. To prevent lying, punish no fault which is freely confessed, but never allow a rebellious, sinful act to go unnoticed.
5. Commend and reward good behavior.
6. Strictly observe all promises you have made to your child.
Hippie, good comments, as usual.
Posted by: jtm at December 7, 2007 12:14 PMReally, Sally, what have you been smoking?!
Civilized society says that no one, male or female, should have the right to impose murder on an innocent person. The unborn are innocent. Those who participate in their murders are not.
Many women whose lives were ended by submitting to "safe, legal" abortions at the whim of killers who couldn't make the grade in legitimate medical practice would gladly readjust their lives to suit the "whims" of a civilized society...if only they could.
And here's another breaking newsflash:
RAISING CHILDREN IS AN EDUCATION IN ITSELF...especially for those moms who choose to homeschool. If you had tried it, you would know much more than you do about a lot of things.
Here are a few of them:
MOTHERHOOD: The most creative, demanding, and important job in the world. It involves fashion, interior decorating, recreation, education, transportation, psychology, horticulture, romance, cuisine, literature, art, economics, bookkeeping, sanitation, government, hospitality, pediatrics, geriatrics, entertainment, maintenance, purchasing, law, religion, energy and management.
Over one hundred years ago, G.K. Chesterton asked: "Can anyone tell me two things more vital to the race than these; what man shall marry what woman, and what shall be the first things taught to their first child?" Chesterton goes on to comment that: "the daily operations surrounded her with very young children, who needed to be taught not so much anything but everything. Babies need not to be taught a trade, but to be introduced to a world. To put the matter shortly, a woman is generally shut up in a house with a human being at the time when he asks all the questions that there are, and some that there aren't...Our race has thought it worth while to cast this burden on women in order to keep common-sense in the world....But when people begin to talk about this domestic duty as not merely difficult but trivial and dreary, I simply give up the question. For I cannot with the utmost energy of imagination conceive what they mean....If drudgery only means dreadfully hard work, I admit the woman drudges in the home, as a man might drudge (at his work)....But if it means that the hard work is more heavy because it is trifling, colorless, and of small import to the soul, then I say give it up...."
How can it be an (important) career to tell other people's children about mathematics, and a small career to tell one's own children about the universe?...A woman's function is laborious...not because it is minute, but because it is gigantic. I will pity Mrs. Jones for the hugeness of her task; I will never pity her for its smallness.
Susannah Wesley's Rules For Raising Children:
1. Subdue self-will in a child and thus work together with God to save his soul.
2. Teach him to pray as soon as he can speak.
3. Give him nothing he cries for and only what is good for him if he asks for it politely.
4. To prevent lying, punish no fault which is freely confessed, but never allow a rebellious, sinful act to go unnoticed.
5. Commend and reward good behavior.
6. Strictly observe all promises you have made to your child.
Hippie, good comments, as usual.
Posted by: jtm at December 7, 2007 12:14 PM
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Oh brother!
An unborn is as incapable of innocence as it is of guilt. Your opening remark is empty of meaning.
Your remarks about abortion providers are unfounded and reek of propaganda.
Homeschooling? Learning along with your kids? No thanks. My kids deserved better than that and got it. My daughter finishes her master's degree today! She wouldn't be there if I had homeschooled her. She passed up my knowledge and ability in math in the 5th grade.
You could have saved yourself the effort on the rest of your drivel. My kids are happy, successful adults raised without antiquated concepts of motherhood.
Posted by: Sally at December 7, 2007 3:31 PMHomeschooling? Learning along with your kids? No thanks. My kids deserved better than that and got it. My daughter finishes her master's degree today! She wouldn't be there if I had homeschooled her. She passed up my knowledge and ability in math in the 5th grade.
You don't know that, Sally. My son, who I have been homeschooling, is 7 years old and is in 5th grade, excelling past what I ever thought he would so soon.
There is a homeschooling family that I saw on TV just last week, who have about 3 or 4 children who were in college by the age of 12.
I don't know why you feel your ways are always superior to everyone else's, Sally.
By the way, if you have been educated to a 12th grade level or higher, why do you not feel that you can teach to a 12th grade level or higher?
What does that say about the teachers who taught you, if you feel that you, as a high school graduate, aren't capable of teaching your own children to be high school graduates?
Posted by: Bethany at December 7, 2007 7:20 PMSusanna Wesley has always been one of my heroes!
Posted by: Bethany at December 7, 2007 7:25 PMSally,
Really? A musical theatre major and a nursing major are QUITE challenging majors (I should know I have been BOTH)...just in slightly different ways. HOWEVER, I recognized that to raise my daughter in the way that she deserves I needed a STABLE career. One that provides health benefits, good salary, and reasonably good hours so I can spend as much time with her as I can. I don't pretend to have no ambition for myself..in fact I have A LOT of ambition. The thing I lacked before having my daughter was direction FOR that ambition. I don't have the luxury of figuring it out as I go anymore. And really, that isn't anything of a luxury ESPECIALLY with having been a dancer. Professional dancers are the LEAST paid of any performing industry. My brother is on the jofferey ballet which is a world-renowned company in case you didn't know..and he still lives at home. (Go see him in the Nutcracker this year..he will be amazing by the way.) I am quite interested in nursing and all it has to offer. The knowledge within science is endless and I love absorbing it. I also get to help people and bring them some sense of peace and comfort in otherwise uncomfortable situations. If you view THAT as less for myself, well then you seem surely jaded by your own shortcomings in life. And to assume that one can only find joy in doing one thing in life is also rather short-sighted. But maybe that's why you're so bitter, Sally. Either way, it doesn't really matter to me because I love this life I have been given. Sleep well and try not to let your hatred for your own existence skew your view of ANYTHING you think you know about me or my life.
Lyssie,
Thank you girl..you rock too and I can't wait to see some pics of that beautiful baby!!!
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 7, 2007 11:15 PMHomeschooling? Learning along with your kids? No thanks. My kids deserved better than that and got it. My daughter finishes her master's degree today! She wouldn't be there if I had homeschooled her. She passed up my knowledge and ability in math in the 5th grade.
You don't know that, Sally. My son, who I have been homeschooling, is 7 years old and is in 5th grade, excelling past what I ever thought he would so soon.
There is a homeschooling family that I saw on TV just last week, who have about 3 or 4 children who were in college by the age of 12.
I don't know why you feel your ways are always superior to everyone else's, Sally.
By the way, if you have been educated to a 12th grade level or higher, why do you not feel that you can teach to a 12th grade level or higher?
What does that say about the teachers who taught you, if you feel that you, as a high school graduate, aren't capable of teaching your own children to be high school graduates?
Posted by: Bethany at December 7, 2007 7:20 PM
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Why are you so condescending and self righteous Bethany?
Why do you pass off copy and pastes as your own thought? Why do you find people on tv shows to be role models?
I attended one of the highest rated school systems at the time. I excelled in Biology and History. My daughter's gift is Math. My highest learning in Math was Geometry. She passed up that knowledge before leaving grade school. While I was reading at the 12th grade level at 9, she was doing equations that many many 12th graders cannot do. What part of this do you not understand?
Do you really think that you have the credentials to teach? Let alone enough knowledge on any given subject to teach well?
Why are you so condescending and self righteous Bethany?
Coming from you, that is quite funny.
Why do you pass off copy and pastes as your own thought?
I didn't. I posted a link to my source.
Why do you find people on tv shows to be role models?
Susanna Wesley is NOT a TV show character. Good grief, Sally. Look her up.
I attended one of the highest rated school systems at the time. I excelled in Biology and History. My daughter's gift is Math. My highest learning in Math was Geometry. She passed up that knowledge before leaving grade school. While I was reading at the 12th grade level at 9, she was doing equations that many many 12th graders cannot do. What part of this do you not understand?
What part did I imply that I did not understand, Sally? Thank you for explaining why YOU YOURSELF would not homeschool YOUR child.
My point was originally that I do not appreciate you condemning others for their decision to homeschool their child. Your implication that others CANNOT BE ABLE to homeschool their children successfully. Just don't lie, that's all I ask. Just because YOU weren't capable of teaching your child, or learning along with her, doesn't mean others aren't able to do so.
Do you really think that you have the credentials to teach? Let alone enough knowledge on any given subject to teach well?
Absolutely! I also have the extra advantage of being able to give my children individual one on one attention during the day...many children don't get that opportunity.
Posted by: Bethany at December 8, 2007 8:13 AMSource: HSLDA
Link: http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
1. In 1997, a study of 5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families was released. It was entitled, "Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America." The study demonstrated that homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects. A significant finding when analyzing the data for 8th graders was the evidence that homeschoolers who are homeschooled two or more years score substantially higher than students who have been homeschooled one year or less. The new homeschoolers were scoring on the average in the 59th percentile compared to students homeschooled the last two or more years who scored between 86th and 92nd percentile. i
This was confirmed in another study by Dr. Lawrence Rudner of 20,760 homeschooled students which found the homeschoolers who have homeschooled all their school aged years had the highest academic achievement. This was especially apparent in the higher grades. ii This is a good encouragement to families catch the long-range vision and homeschool through high school.
Another important finding of Strengths of Their Own was that the race of the student does not make any difference. There was no significant difference between minority and white homeschooled students. For example, in grades K-12, both white and minority students scored, on the average, in the 87th percentile. In math, whites scored in the 82nd percentile while minorities scored in the 77th percentile. In the public schools, however, there is a sharp contrast. White public school eighth grade students, nationally scored the 58th percentile in math and the 57th percentile in reading. Black eighth grade students, on the other hand, scored on the average at the 24th percentile in math and the 28th percentile in reading. Hispanics scored at the 29th percentile in math and the 28th percentile in reading. iii
These findings show that when parents, regardless of race, commit themselves to make the necessary sacrifices and tutor their children at home, almost all obstacles present in other school systems disappear.
Another obstacle that seems to be overcome in homeschooling is the need to spend a great deal of money in order to have a good education. In Strengths of Their Own, Dr. Ray found the average cost per homeschool student is $546 while the average cost per public school student is $5,325. Yet the homeschool children in this study averaged in 85th percentile while the public school students averaged in the 50th percentile on nationally standardized achievement tests.iv
Similarly, the 1998 study by Dr. Rudner of 20,760 students, found that eighth grade students whose parents spend $199 or less on their home education score, on the average, in the 80th percentile. Eighth grade students whose parents spend $400 to $599 on their home education also score on the average, in the 80th percentile! Once the parents spend over $600, the students do slightly better, scoring in the 83rd percentile.v
The message is loud and clear. More money does not mean a better education. There is no positive correlation between money spent on education and student performance. Public school advocates could refocus their emphasis if they learned this lesson. Loving and caring parents are what matters. Money can never replace simple, hard work.
The last significant statistic from the Strengths of Their Own study regards the affect of government regulation on homeschooling. Dr. Brian Ray compared the impact of government regulation on the academic performance of homeschool students and he found no positive correlation. In other words, whether a state had a high degree of regulation (i.e., curriculum approval, teacher qualifications, testing, home visits) or a state had no regulation of homeschoolers, the homeschooled students in both categories of states performed the same. The students all scored on the average in the 86th percentile regardless of state regulation.vi
Homeschool freedom works. Homeschoolers have earned the right to be left alone.
**********************
Just to be sure you understand that I have posted a source for this article, I will post it again here at the bottom....In case you missed it at the top.
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
Sally,
But then hysterical falsehoods are the platform for your stance
Where is all the animosity coming from...I never meant to imply that all the "family members that were pro choice" were dead. Only the ones that were aborted...sheesh!
Posted by: mk at December 5, 2007 8:55 AM
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Ask Bethany about animosity. She seems to be having quite the melt down.
What would be your point in the obvious statement that an aborted conceptus would be dead? You cannot determine who or what is considered family for anyone but yourself.
Posted by: Sally at December 5, 2007 10:01 AM
Ask Bethany about animosity? Okay, then ask Sally about stupidity.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 10:53 AM
Ask Bethany about animosity? Okay, then ask Sally about stupidity.
Posted by: heather at December 5, 2007 10:53 AM
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Off your meds Bethany?
Posted by: Sally at December 5, 20Why are you so condescending and self righteous Bethany?
Why do you pass off copy and pastes as your own thought? Why do you find people on tv shows to be role models?
I just realized, Sally, that higher up in this topic, you seem to have me mixed up with Heather.
I stand corrected as to the extent of Sally's experience in motherhood. I just would never have guessed it from the parroting of marxist/reminazi babbling about patriarchal societies, etc. This is the sort of thing I tend to hear from a new bunch of college-age proaborts in socialist-based "educational" systems just about annually.
But by Sally's own admission, I stand by my view that she would still have learned a great deal about a great many other things had she "learned along with her kid(s)"...but calling a view of motherhood "antiquated" doesn't invalidate it. It is valid or not on it's own merits, regardless of what time it is.
Innocence is the absence of proven guilt. All unborn are innocent, unlike Sally and her babykilling allies. I think they disparage, belittle and impugn the innocence of their victims because it makes them look like the bloodthirsty, bloodguilty monsters they are.
Posted by: jtm at December 9, 2007 4:33 PM