Before we get into the debate on weather or not this story is legit because it was linked to a "biased" source...

www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-23/1202808249151590.xml&storylist=orlocal

www.koin.com/Global/story.asp?S=7857087

www.kptv.com/news/15272754/detail.html

"This is the tide unleashed when we agree in law that killing is an acceptable answer to human suffering"

Greetings from way up in the USA, Mars Hill, Maine, where it's a balmy zero degrees now, feeling like well below that. 3 feet of snow on the ground and drifts bigger than a house.

MK, that's a good topic, and I see a lot of the question as the degree of "killing" as far as an active or even malevolent process, versus letting someone end their own suffering.

Doug

Well Doug,

The husband claimed that this is what she wanted/desired

Just like Laurens mother claims that's what she wants/desires.

Just like Terry Schiavo's husband claims that's what she wanted/desired.

But Virginia, Lauren and Terry Schiavo can't tell us what they want can they?

Neither can the unborn.

This guy almost got away with murder. All based on hearsay.

Slippery slope indeed..

Doug wrote:
MK, that's a good topic, and I see a lot of the question as the degree of "killing" as far as an active or even malevolent process, versus letting someone end their own suffering.

With all due respect, that argument never fails to amaze me. People have been successfully committing suicide since the dawn of mankind. Someone who really wants to kill him/herself doesn't need our "help" to do so.

The whole point of the assisted-suicide movement is to involve other people in the death. That's not suicide anymore; it's killing. It is an active process, and an utterly malevolent one.

Doug -

Haven't you ever noticed that in abortion, assisted suicide etc. it isn't the person that is doing the dying that makes the decision? it is the ones that would be inconvienienced if they lived that are the ones making the decision. (BTW - many, people came forward during Kavorkians trial to say that the person who wanted assisted suicide did so because the people who would be the caretakers were letting these people know just how much work it took to take care of them. Do you really think it was their decision? Or do you think they felt worthless and a burden?)

Also -

You live in Maine? I've always wanted to go there. We were suppose to get snow...but it passed over us. So far the weather people around here have yet to predict the snow correctly this winter.

I miss real snow. I loved it in Minnesota. *sigh*

Even if Lauren said at one point "I wouldn't want to live like Terri, that's gross." Well, I know I wouldn't want to live that way either... That doesn't mean I want to be murdered if that happens to me!!! I mean to claim to know her wishes on such a vague statement that we don't even know if she made for a fact, is just ridiculous. Why would anyone want to base her life on it??

I would call what he did murder, you know , what it should be called.

Plenty of snow in Illinois! Another 4 inches supposedly on the way, yuck! I wouldn't mind too much if it weren't so darn cold!

When a society says it's OK to kill the most vulnerable of all, the rest is up for grabs.

Even if Lauren said at one point "I wouldn't want to live like Terri, that's gross." Well, I know I wouldn't want to live that way either... That doesn't mean I want to be murdered if that happens to me!!! I mean to claim to know her wishes on such a vague statement that we don't even know if she made for a fact, is just ridiculous. Why would anyone want to base her life on it??
Posted by: tori at February 12, 2008 9:13 AM

Tori, exactly!!

Valerie, regarding who is making the decision, let's not forget that Dr Kevorkian (a personal hero of mine) never killed anyone. He only gave them the means to do it themselves. They pushed the button that caused the drugs to be injected, not him nor anyone else. These were terminal patients in chronic pain who wanted to die, and an overzealous prosecutor in Michigan sent Jack to jail for fulfilling the physicians oath in helping them relieve their own tortured condition.

Ray,

It didn't work out so well for him, did it?

No Janet, it didn't. Kevorkian's prosecution was a travesty of justice. But, like many trailblazers, he moved the public debate forward, while paying a heavy price.

Greetings from way up in the USA, Mars Hill, Maine, where it's a balmy zero degrees now, feeling like well below that. 3 feet of snow on the ground and drifts bigger than a house.
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Greetings from the beautiful 92373!
We're looking at a projected 80 degree day, and I have a mild sunburn from working on my seed beds yesterday.

Sing along - "California dreamin' on such a winter's day..."

Ray,

and an overzealous prosecutor in Michigan sent Jack to jail for fulfilling the physicians oath in helping them relieve their own tortured condition.

You're kidding right? What physicians oath are you talking about?

"I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art."

Hippocrates

Greetings from the beautiful 92373!
We're looking at a projected 80 degree day, and I have a mild sunburn from working on my seed beds yesterday.
*
Sing along - "California dreamin' on such a winter's day..."

You know Laura,
People on here are always accusing you of being mean spirited and cruel. And I often stand up for you...

But this...this is beyond sadistic.

(Chicago, IL...windchill 9 degrees)

Ray -

"He only gave them the means to do it themselves. They pushed the button that caused the drugs to be injected, not him nor anyone else. "

Why do you think that excuse in court didn't fly?

oh...maybe because it isn't true.

Dr. Kevorkian allowed 60 minutes to air a video tape that he did himself showing that HE administered the lethal dose into the body of Thomas Youk. He was found quilty of 2nd degree murder and delivering of a control substance.

It was also found that many of his "patients" would have been physically incapable to administer the drugs themselves.

So...your personal hero actually did kill people. I'm sure that won't change your mind. The culture of death is an amazing concept.

Carousel anyone?

Generally this blog rocks, BUT as a practicing Catholic I resent your choice of a stern nun to accompany the story about murderers. It was a "stern" nun who encouraged me to write pro-life articles (including one against euthanasia)in an adult local paper when I was 10 years old. The loss of traditional teaching nuns goes hand in hand with the advancement of the culture of Death.

Go Kansas! Pro-Life!

topekaprolife,

Generally this blog rocks, BUT as a practicing Catholic I resent your choice of a stern nun to accompany the story about murderers. It was a "stern" nun who encouraged me to write pro-life articles (including one against euthanasia)in an adult local paper when I was 10 years old. The loss of traditional teaching nuns goes hand in hand with the advancement of the culture of Death.

Couldn't agree with you more. Which is why she's there. Had she been around, this clown might have had a well formed conscience and not done anything as stupid as kill his wife.

I promise. I meant no disrespect.

"The authority of certain physicians to be designated by name in such manner that persons who, according to human judgment, are incurable can, upon a most careful diagnosis of their condition of sickness, be accorded a mercy death." – Adolf Hitler

“If we can get people to accept the removal of treatment and care – especially the removal of food and fluids – they will see what a painful way this is to die, and then, in the “patients best interest”, they will accept the lethal injection.” – pro-death advocate Helga Kuhse during the Fifth biennial Congress of Societies for the “Right to Die” in September, 1984. Inside quotation marks mine.

Well, assisted homicide is ok, so why not assisted suicide?

(sarcastic)

Naaman: With all due respect, that argument never fails to amaze me. People have been successfully committing suicide since the dawn of mankind. Someone who really wants to kill him/herself doesn't need our "help" to do so.

Actually, sometimes they do.
......

The whole point of the assisted-suicide movement is to involve other people in the death. That's not suicide anymore; it's killing. It is an active process, and an utterly malevolent one.

Not always; it's a good topic for discussion.

Haven't you ever noticed that in abortion, assisted suicide etc. it isn't the person that is doing the dying that makes the decision? it is the ones that would be inconvienienced if they lived that are the ones making the decision. (BTW - many, people came forward during Kavorkians trial to say that the person who wanted assisted suicide did so because the people who would be the caretakers were letting these people know just how much work it took to take care of them. Do you really think it was their decision? Or do you think they felt worthless and a burden?)

Valerie, Erin and others have said that they would not want to live in certain situations, and that's true for me too. We make our decision now, and let people know what to do.

If somebody wants to die because they feel they are a burden to others, that strikes me as sad, but the cases where people want to end their suffering are sad from the get-go.

If somebody is really deciding to die based on somebody else saying, "You're really a pain in the ass...." then I'd hope there are others willing and able to care for them. If not, then the old questions about to what extent are we really our brothers' keeper, etc., are there.
......

Also - You live in Maine? I've always wanted to go there. We were suppose to get snow...but it passed over us. So far the weather people around here have yet to predict the snow correctly this winter. I miss real snow. I loved it in Minnesota. *sigh*

My mom lives in Maine, but way down in Kennebunkport, not far from the Bush compound. I was just up there for a one-day job. We left NYC Sunday and saw more and more snow as we got farther north. Today got the heck out of there and ran into yet another winter storm going across the NY Thruway. Buffalo tonight.

Next month, Key West, FL, YEAH BABY.

I live in northeastern Ohio, and my wife and I also have a place SW of Atlanta, GA. My employer is in the WV Panhandle, and I spend more than half the year "on the road." Been to all the Canadian Provinces and 49 of the 50 states. Hawaii remains.

Best,

Doug

Greetings from the beautiful 92373!

Ha! That's it, Laura, rub it in... Tell you what - we got done late last night about 11 p.m. and the wind was blowing and so was the snow and it was in the single digits for temperature and it just makes you shake your head... I do enjoy the variety of weather and climates in our country, but I need to get a giant styrofoam baseball bat and whack my boss upside the head. Northern Maine in the dead of winter....

Tell you what, also - southern Californians know how to drive, they can merge like champs.

Doug

This seriously looks like a guy with whom I worked in New Brunswick.

Tell you what, also - southern Californians know how to drive, they can merge like champs.

Doug

Posted by: Doug at February 12, 2008 9:10 PM
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Southern Californians lead the country in freeway gun violence. Learning to merge courteously is a survival skill. Smile and wave!

Doug -

When I was talking about the people making the choices aren't the ones doing the dying I was referring to the people who have NOT made their feelings known. Also, in many cases, such as with the PVS stories, etc, it seems perfectly fine to believe hearsay - even if only one person says that what this person wanted. When it comes to death hearsay miraculously becomes fact and everyone wants to pull the plug. Even though there isn't a court in America that will allow hearsay in their courtroom until it comes to this.

If someone has a living will that they do not want to be kept alive by artificial means and that includes being fed through a tube, I have no problems following their wishes. I do have a problem believing ONE person over others. I also would not have a problem if the majority of family and friends said death is what the person wanted in these situations.

Since these stories are about people who do not have living wills and only one person says they would want to die - that is what I was referring to.

You and my hubby have alot in common. He travels away from home 2 - 3 weeks out of every month. Right now he is in NJ. He has been to about 47 states, some of Canada and a few of the US territories.

Hopefully he will get promoted and he won't have to travel as much. Of course when he would travel it mostly be overseas - Germany, Japan, France...etc.... ug!!

I do have a problem believing ONE person over others. I also would not have a problem if the majority of family and friends said death is what the person wanted in these situations.

Valerie, I definitely agree that it's best to leave no doubt, i.e. put it in writing.

Also, yeah - believing one person, especially over many others, is dicey, and people can and do sometimes have what we would both agree are bad motives in this area.

Doug