by Jill Stanek

Rich and I are returning home from our Hawaiian vacation today, which has sensitized me more than ever to the devastation of population decline.

One elderly half-Hawaiian told me she thinks there are no pure blooded Hawaiians left; Encyclopedia Britannica puts the number at less than 10,000.

It is politically correct to blame Westerners for the Hawaiian demise. Numbering anywhere from 300k-500k or more when Captain James Cook arrived in 1778, it is true their numbers spiraled downward due to the introduction of our diseases, like chicken pox, measles, and STDs.

But omitted from discussion is the ancient Hawaiian penchant for human sacrifice, numbering in the tens to hundreds of thousands to angry gods, as well as a strict penal code with capital punishment for breaking numerous taboos that included crossing one's shadow over a chief's shadow.

Speaking of chiefs, also omitted from popular discussion is the ancient Hawaiian class system with the belief that inbreeding between siblings and other immediate family members was good, certainly also weakening the Hawaiian strain.

How many millions of their progeny did Hawaiians themselves snuff?

All of that was actually an aside. Troy Newman of Operation Rescue alerted me to this trailer about the soon-to-be-released documentary, Demographic Winter. Click on this image to watch it at its link....

From the Demographic Winter website:

Everyone knows all this. By "everyone" I mean the UN, statisticians, government leaders, and population experts. They just won't discuss it above whispers, if at all, because the facts either betray their established political agenda, or, would be too politically damaging to spotlight.

There was also inter island warfare. Hawaii wasn't unified under one king by handing out milk and cookies. I googled Hawaiian history and was surprised to find that the "indigenous" Hawaiians took the islands from their previous inhabitants who had lived on the islands about 500-600 years, the Marquesans, and enslaved them.
There's also evidence that the "first" Americans migrating across the land bridge to North America likely encountered ice age Pacific rim people and Europeans who had previously arrived by boat. And no, these people didn't love one another and frolic with the bunny rabbits in the forest. They brutally duked it out until the best man won. The descendents of these survivors are the people Columbus encountered, who still did not live peacefully with each other.

There's a politically correct tendency to romanticize history, especially where it involves "indigenous" people who may not in fact have been the indigenous people. We all want to think there was something exceptionally noble about our ancestors. In fact the history of the world is one of the powerful of every race preying on the weak of every race, warfare, slavery, brutality, greed, racism, sexism, ethnic warfare and tribalism.
Life was universally a very brutal struggle for survival.

I watched the trailer for the movie..it looks really interesting.

Hawaii was also ranked one of least prolife states in the country. Looks like their not done eliminating themselves yet...

Here's the link: Top 10 Least Pro-Life States

Here's the list:

1. Oregon
2007 Ranking: 1

2. California
2007 Ranking: 5

3. Connecticut
2007 Ranking: 6

4. New Jersey
2007 Ranking: 3

5. Vermont
2007 Ranking: 4

6. Hawaii
2007 Ranking: 2
,/
b.

7. New Hampshire
2007 Ranking: 7

8. Iowa
2007 Ranking: 20

9. Alaska
2007 Ranking: 8

10. New Mexico
2007 Ranking: 9

"no pure blooded Hawaiians left"

I don't know about you guys, but I don't mourn the loss of "pure" blooded anything. Mixed raced people are just as good as pure blood people.

1) I'm not sure I understand why a "demographic winter" is a bad thing - much less "devastating."

2) People choose to be chidlfree BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT CHILDREN. There's no way you can change that. What could you possibly do to reverse this trend that wouldn't punish unwilling parents and unwanted children?

Hal,

I don't believe there are "pure-blooded" people anywhere. Given the course of thousands of years of history with war, conquest, slavery, migration, changing borders, civil upheavel, trade, travel, etc. there's just been too much opportunity for fence hopping.
Yes there are homogenous populations, such as in Japan and in certain tribal areas, but even then, how can one be so certain of one's ancestry and who they may have encountered?
Scientists were very shocked to discover ancient European DNA in some east coast Indians. Not exactly what they thought they would find. This adds credence to the theory that ice age Europeans were in North America when the "native Americans" arrived from Asia.

For the most part, I think racially mixed people are considerably more attractive, especially the children.

mk:4:51,

On what criteria are the rankings based?

The long term consequences of (population decline) could be... devastating.

Why in the world would anybody think that?

Yeah it was strange you mentioned the loss of pure bloods. I am not Irish if I'm only half Irish?

The long term consequences of population decline would be a reduction in the amount of stress humans place on the ecosystem and proportional mitigation of carbon emissions and the resulting climate change. These are good things. They are also necessary for the long term survival of the human race. You can't keep growing the population indefinitely with finite resources available for support. Eventually it has to level off, or people start starving and/or going thirsty and/or going without heat in winter, etc. This is already happening in parts of the world, and we aren't willing to more evenly distribute resources to prevent it as it is. What happens when we have 10 or 20 billion people?

The short term consequences are difficulty for a few generations in taking care of aging populations, but frankly, we did it to ourselves by breeding like rabbits. It's a nice gift you want to leave for your grandkids, antis: worse climate change, and even more geezers for them to take care of.

Ray,

According to various climatologists that I've read, climate is controlled by many factors, most of which we are only beginning to understand, and the idea that man has any control is sheer arrogance, not to mention laughable. The climate will do what it damned well wants. In the mid 1500s(?) there was a major warming trend. Grapes were grown in England. People prospered. It was followed by a mini ice age, likely caused by a major volcanic eruption. How on earth did this global warming occur without mankind causing it?
Climate is so complex computer models can't be made. Some factors affecting climate are precipitation, the sun, the earth axis, sun/earth rotation(not always exact) and ocean currents. Carbon has been expelled into the atmosphere since creation. What about the volcanoes that have been and still are continuously expelling pollution into the atmosphere?
Please google "global warming hoax".

Nice, Mary. Are all antis climate change deniers? Anyone out there still think the earth is flat, or that the stars revolve around us?

A few web pages funded by oil companies do not negate the overwhelming consensus of the peer-reviewed scientific community and the extremely conservative viewpoint of the international community of nations that carbon levels several times higher than EVER in the geological record have triggered a alarming warming trend.

Ask yourself this. What if you are right? We spend a few bucks finding alternative energy that we will need someday anyway, when fossil fuels run out. What if you are wrong? Then you have left your children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren a horrific inheritance.

The fact is that we are only now discovering the myriad of ways that a few degrees change in global temperature can screw our ability to support ourselves royally. Look at the increasing amounts of drought and increasing acidity of the oceans for starters. Our current way of life is simply not sustainable at this level and with this many people, and I, for one, would rather do something about it now, before we have no choice. A good and easy way to start is to MAKE LESS PEOPLE.

Ray,

I do not deny climate change, I said the climate does what it damned well wants and man has no say. You didn't say anything about the factors I mentioned as affecting the climate. Does man control any of these? You also didn't mention the volcanoes and continual spewing of tons of toxins into the atmosphere. And please, how exactly did the earth experience the warming trend I mentioned a few centuries ago without help from the human race?
Why is it you assume these web pages are funded by oil companies? I saw many well credentialled articles. The high priest of global warming is Al Gore, and his credentials in science and climatology are what?
Contrary to what you think Ray, there is no consensus, only differing opinions and debate. You might try looking at both sides of the argument objectively.
I have no issue with finding alternative sources of energy.
Droughts are something new? I've seen plenty of them in my lifetime and they have occured throughout history. People in many cultures planned their farming and societal structures around them.
Carbon dioxide has been continually expelled into the atmosphere by every living thing since creation. Our furry friends expel it as well, and there are how many billions of them? I won't even speculate on the amount of methane the dinosaurs sent skyward.
By the way Ray, I just heard that some climatologists have noticed less sunspot activity and are concerned this might cause some global cooling. Well, 30 years ago we were told we were entering another ice age, maybe they're finally getting it right.

I don't think making less people is the answer to all of our problems. People are the greatest resource we have. Without them, nothing else matters.

God made the world and said it was good. He made man and woman and said "be fruitful and multiply". We stopped listening to Him, and look where we're headed. There's still time to change.

Janet,

You may be too young to remember but according to the prophets of doom, the human race was supposed to have died out by now because of overpopulation. We were supposed to have frozen to death as well.

Be fruitful and live in abject poverty. That sounds like a good message to me!

I don't think making less people is the answer to all of our problems. People are the greatest resource we have. Without them, nothing else matters.

God made the world and said it was good. He made man and woman and said "be fruitful and multiply". We stopped listening to Him, and look where we're headed. There's still time to change.

Posted by: Janet at February 13, 2008 8:12 PM
................................................................

People are a resource? Soylent Green anyone?

A good and easy way to start is to MAKE LESS PEOPLE.

Or we could just off some of the ones we've got now..oh wait..we already do that.

The elderly, disabled, unconscious, unborn...

Man, you think the environmental problems would be solved BY NOW with all the getting rid of people that goes on.

Oh, it isn't? I'm shocked.

Man, you think the environmental problems would be solved BY NOW with all the getting rid of people that goes on.

Oh, it isn't? I'm shocked.

Posted by: Elizabeth at February 13, 2008 10:21 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Getting rid of people?
We have the greatest number of people to ever exist at one time on this planet.

Sally,

I should have said "people are the greatest of God's creatures, because they are made in the image and likeness of God."

Mary,

I remember talk like that when I was younger. I am in total agreement with you, that we just don't have the ability to know whether global warming is a long term reality. Al Gore will have a new cause in ten years.

I'd prefer to see people worry about pressing problems like babies being killed in clinics all over the country, sometimes right in our own back yards. We know with 100% accuracy what's happening there. But we choose to ignore it. Aren't people funny that way?

Elizabeth:

Amen!

We have the greatest number of people to ever exist at one time on this planet.

So let's off some more! That'll fix all the problems with the trees and the oceans!

Oh wait...it won't. Garsh, guess you guys are going to have to find another problem to blame humans for.

You may be too young to remember but according to the prophets of doom, the human race was supposed to have died out by now because of overpopulation. We were supposed to have frozen to death as well.

Posted by: Mary at February 13, 2008 8:20 PM

Mary, I remember living through some of the coldest, snowiest winters on record in the late 1970's and early 1980's, when there was still snow on the ground in May.

So let's off some more! That'll fix all the problems with the trees and the oceans!

Posted by: Elizabeth at February 13, 2008 11:10 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This thread isn't about "offing" anyone.
It's about people who want a decent standard of living and choosing not to whelp.

Have you even bothered to read the research or see "An Inconvenient Truth?"

FF,

An Inconvenient Truth...come on..Mr. Al Gore...lol

I wouldn't bother watching that much propaganda even if someone paid me to do it.

Okay folks just a few facts. Africa is the most sparsley populated continent and the poorest. Europe is one of the most densely populated and is one of the richest.

No economic systems work with a shrinking population. Not communism, feudalism, capitalism, socialism or any other.

Google depopulation Russia. You will find many articles explaining how depopulation is economically devastating. Think black plague in Europe.

I am so glad we have strong immigration. It is what is proping up our economy. This is not my opinion, rather it is the opinion of leading economists. I just wish our gov't would make a concerted effort to help more come legally and treat them decently rather than letting greedy employers exploit them.

As for global warming, even if the warming trend is not our fault or even significant, controlling ground level pollution is a good enough reason to restrict all kinds of chemical pollution. However, some of the suggestions of the government have been criticized by many as being very expensive and not really very effective. I don't know enough to say what the answer is or really if anyone does.

1) I'm not sure I understand why a "demographic winter" is a bad thing - much less "devastating."

2) People choose to be chidlfree BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT CHILDREN. There's no way you can change that. What could you possibly do to reverse this trend that wouldn't punish unwilling parents and unwanted children?

Posted by: FetusFascist at February 13, 2008 5:16 PM

The point is not that a certain (small) percentage of people don't have kids. That has never been a problem. The problem is a sustained low birth rate. There are many single moms out there, so we know women want kids. Many (not all) would also like to be in a loving commited relationship. You have only to read the surveys in parenting magazines to see that many women (not all) with kids would also like to stay home with them at least for a few more years. Now I personally think and surveys also show that finances largely account for women going back to work when they don't really want to. I think we need to raise the minimum wage so more families can make it. I also blame illegal immigration for depressing wages. I think the government should allow far more to come legally and penalize employers who prey on vulnerable immigrants. I think Bush and his buddies like illegal immigration as long as it is illegal because then businesses can profit from lower payroll costs, and when their employees fall ill the public has to pay their medical costs because they aren't covered by employer insurance. Of course there are tax breaks for the rich who are the very ones profitting from the depressed wages.

Back to my original point though. The basic failure of relationships, in my mind, is at the heart of it. If men and women were forming lasting meaningful relationships at a higher rate, we would see more happy marriages and from that more children, at least replacement rate anyway.

If we lived in a society where we placed greater emphasis on the value of lasting relationships maybe things would improve. I think teens always hear that working towards a career is the most important thing, but I think for real happiness we should emphasize that relationships are just as important, not for the sake of society but for the individuals involved.

An Inconvenient Truth...come on..Mr. Al Gore...lol

I wouldn't bother watching that much propaganda even if someone paid me to do it.

Posted by: Elizabeth at February 13, 2008 11:40 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah, God knows you's never have anything to do with that Nobel Prize nonsense - much less have ANYTHING to do with an Oscar.
Go read "Hop on Pop" and "Goodnight Moon" for the 10,000th time.

Mary, I remember living through some of the coldest, snowiest winters on record in the late 1970's and early 1980's, when there was still snow on the ground in May.

Posted by: Janet at February 13, 2008 11:21 PM

I remember record snowfall of 300 feet on Mt Baker in Washington in 2000 and we went playing in the snow with my 2 year old on the 4th of July. We made a snowman. We were wearing shorts and it was about 70 degrees. It was so fun.

Ooooooooh Hippie-

I think your relationship theory holds water.
Here, have an interesting article. It seemed to me that building a foundation before you have kids is CRUCIAL:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/30/AR2007063001071.html

(Wow! We agree about once a year, and we got this one out of the way by mid-February! We are EFFICIENT!)

"I don't think making less people is the answer to all of our problems. People are the greatest resource we have. Without them, nothing else matters."

The only reason you think that is because your a person.

The point is not that a certain (small) percentage of people don't have kids. That has never been a problem. The problem is a sustained low birth rate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

About 20% of all American women will remain childfree by choice. Among White and Asian American women, the number rises to almost 30%.
I don't consider those small numbers.
I encourage immigration too.

Anonymous 12:32,

Now that sounds like fun! I hope you got some pictures!

Jess 1:28,

True. I bet your hamsters think they're number one.

HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY!

FF 11:34PM

Have YOU bothered to do any research, like both sides of the issue? An Inconvenient Truth? Al Gore's credentials as a scientist and climatologist are...what?
Google "global warming hoax" and you will find articles presenting an opposing viewpoint, ones that are written by people who unlike Gore, have credentials and actually know what they're talking about.

Janet 10:57PM

Mankind can control the climate like we can control tidal waves, earthquakes, volcanoes, and the sunrise and sunset.

FF 11:34PM
Have YOU bothered to do any research, like both sides of the issue? An Inconvenient Truth? Al Gore's credentials as a scientist and climatologist are...what?

Hee hee..and she calls David Reardon unqualified! haha Pot Kettle.

Mary,

Exactly! Where's Mr. Freeze when you need him?

No, actually I rely on the 3000 climatology experts from 190 countries that formed the UN Panel on Global Warming.

Even the idiot Republican Party has seen the light and has a position on reversing climate change - and those are people who boink their cousins and eat roadkill. Bush brought up the subject in his last State of the Union Adress, and John McCain includes global warming provisions in his platform. Get with the program...

Just a thought..could our efforts against global warming come back to haunt us? What if the pendulum swung the other way? Who's to say that we wouldn't be worse off with a global freeze than global warming?

Bethany,

I know right!

FF,

Don't be knockin' Goodnight Moon..that's a pretty fabbbb book. Although my daughter likes "Hooper Humperdink, Not Him" the best. It's cause her grandpa loves to read that one to her.

No matter how many times I read them, my baby loves them EVERY time. That's ALL that matters.

The climate has warmed in the past, but not as fast as it is now.

The effect of humans on the earth's climate isn't really at issue, as far as it being fact. The degree of it isn't yet settled, but as Ray noted, peer-reviewed scientists have established that we are making a difference.

If you want more wealth, produce more goods and services. That's a far cry from acting like an ever-expanding population and debt will somehow magically get around basic economic law.

Doug

hippie- the black plague actually had a very positive effect on the development of a middle class, a phenomena rarely heard of before that time.

http://www.poodwaddle.com/worldclock.swf

FF,

As I said there are plenty of opposing viewpoints by equally qualified climatologists. I remember when the great minds of science were also warning us of an impending ice age, and that was only 30 years ago.
I would expect people who boink their cousins and eat roadkill have fallen for this manmade global warming claptrap.

Doug,

And other peer review scientists say its hooey.
Look at both sides of the argument objectively.
When man controls the energy emitted from the sun, cloud cover, precipitation the earth axis, the sun earth rotation, and the ocean currents, then you'll convince me man can have an effect on the climate. Until then its arrogant and laughable to suggest we can.
Like I said Doug, 30 years ago these great minds told us we were entering an ice age.
Also, I'll believe the future climate of the earth can be predicted when I get an accurate weather report for the week.

Mary, the thing is that the rate of temperature increase is unprecedented, and that carbon dioxide and other "greenhouse gas" emissions do have provable and demonstrable effects.

Human emissions have increased the CO2 from 280 to 360 parts per million. One effect is that plants grow faster - photosynthesis is more efficient at higher carbon dioxide concentrations.

Doug,

How does one explain the warming trend I mentioned as occuring in the mid 1500s I believe? Grapes were being grown in England. It was in fact a period of great prosperity. It was followed by a mini ice age. How could there be such radical climate change with no help from man? Most likely because man has no influence, then or now.
Much of what you say is disputed by climatologists Doug. Please google "global warming hoax" and please keep an open and objective mind.

Doug,

Is that a picture of me?

Mary, that's a picture of one of my other favorite girls, the remarkable 'Olivia.'

Agreed that there have been some very warm periods in the past, and some ice ages too. What is different this time is how fast the temperature is increasing. For "radical change" as far as warming up, we have it now.

I went to www.globalwarminghoax.com and saw nothing that contradicts the factual numbers as I understand them.

I did find The latest eco-fads: Abortion and tube-tying

http://tinyurl.com/yshflj

Michelle Malkin is a babe but awfully conservative.

hippie- the black plague actually had a very positive effect on the development of a middle class, a phenomena rarely heard of before that time.

Even further, it has been argued that the major result of the black plague was the Renaissance. Not such a bad turnout.

Doug,

I said to google global warming hoax. Globalwarminghoax.com is just one website. The google global warming hoax has over 300,000 entries.

You haven't explained why these dramatic climate changes in the past occured with no help from man.

Doug,

I stand corrected. There are over a million entries. What was someone saying about a consensus of opinion?

Mary, lots of google hits on a search term do not a fact make.

There are no peer reviewed studies that contradict the theory that carbon and other emissions created on a massive scale by humans is changing the climate on a frightening scale, one that will have catastrophic consequences for a large portion of the earth's population.

If I owned ocean beach front property anywhere, I'd be selling, as it won't be there for much longer.

Ray,

Over a million hits of conflicting scientific opinions makes a "fact" highly questionable and puts the kabosh to any notion of a consensus. Ray, again I ask, how did the global warming trend and the mini ice age I mentioned, radical changes in climate, occur with no help from man?

If you'd unload that property cheap I'd buy it from you in a minute.

Mary, googling "flat earth" yields 15,900,000 hits. This doesn't make it so.

Sudden past major changes in climate have been attributed to major shifts in the atmosphere caused by volcanoes, meteor hits, etc. This one is demonstrably being cause by us.

Ray and Doug,

A word of caution. Some great scam artists are having a field day with this buying "carbon credits" horse puckey.
I hear one such firm planted trees in Uganda. Problem was destitute farmers who needed the land were cutting them down.

Mary, I am with you there. The carbon credits thing strains credulity, as verification is difficult at best. Using less carbon to begin with and advocating changes in policy and technology that affect carbon use...that is where it's at.

Ray,

15 million hits! Is the shape of the earth an issue being debated by the scientific community?

Bingo. Volcanoes! Thank you! We're making progress!
Ray, also the sun, clouds, precipitation, ocean currents, earth axis, and sun/earth rotation.

Ray,

A volcano was thought to have brought on the mini ice age. What caused the global warming that occured prior to that?

Mary, climate change caused by man is no longer being debated in the serious scientific community. The only thing being debated is how severe it will be and whether it is too late to prevent it or not.

I don't pretend to know climatological history in detail, just like I don't have to be an aeronautical engineer to trust that an airplane will fly. I have read explanations and summaries written by people whom I have no reason to disbelieve, and I am satisfied.

Ray,

Manmade climate change IS debated in the serious scientific community. Visit that google site and you will find people with impeccable credentials who say any notion of manmade global warming is a crock.

The airplane comparison is very appropriate. Like the climate we observe what it does, but have very limited understanding of how it works.

You haven't explained why these dramatic climate changes in the past occured with no help from man.

Mary, I've already agreed with you that they have. The point now is that the rate of change is more than what happened in the past, as far as temperature increases.

I also agree with you on the "carbon credit" deal. Same for the "Kyoto Treaty" - just an impossible silly thing for a country like the US. I saw that China may well have as much "greenhouse gas" emissions in 20 or 25 years as the entire world does now.

Doug,

We agree these changes took place but you haven't addressed why, since human activities weren't an issue. Perhaps just nature taking its course no matter what?

Also your claim about the rate of change is open to debate and not all climatologists agree.

The notion of carbon credits is laughable and does little more than ease the conscience of those who want to continue their lifestyle, at the expense of the poor(Uganda). The Kyoto Treaty is equally a farce.

@Mary: I know this is pretty unrelated, but I think you may find it amusing:

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Ari-Chan,

I did, thanks.

Al Gore saves the planet...not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-NFB8IEJdU&embed=1

Ari-chan,

And we're supposed to drink 6-8 glasses of the stuff a day? Yikes! lol

MK,

Don't fall for that 6-8 glasses a day hooey. Drink only what you need to quench your thirst. All that water does nothing more than make your kidneys work overtime and has no proven benefits.
Stop to think of this, what other living creature drinks more water than it needs?

Mary,

LOL I don't fall for any of that healthy living stuff...shame on me. More like 6-8 cans of ginger ale a day. Just enough to wash down that piece of chocolate cake.

Anon,

My goodness I would weight 700 pounds if I did that! All that sugar! Also, you're very wise to be wary of any "healthy living stuff".

The black plague devastated Europe.

The recovery from it was based on a high birth rate.

That means lots of young folks and fewer older ones.

That is the opposite of what we have.

We have lots of old and fewer young.

Our situation is similar to the plague not the recovery from it.

I agree that once the population starts growing again we will have renewed prosperity like they had in the renaissance.

They birthed lots of folks and had a "rebirth" of prosperity.

8 glasses a day is what? It's only a half gallon, right? Heck, that ain't nuttin'....

Good for preventing kidney stones.

Mary: We agree these changes took place but you haven't addressed why, since human activities weren't an issue. Perhaps just nature taking its course no matter what?

I have indeed addressed this, and it's not at argument. Yes, there have been changes in the past, due to nature, not to human activity. Nobody says otherwise, unless they a nutjob.

There have also been some rapid cool-downs, as after volcanic eruptions. But there hasn't been as fast a temp. increase as we're having now.
.....

Also your claim about the rate of change is open to debate and not all climatologists agree.

Sure it's open to debate, but there's not much feeling against it, really.

Some great scam artists are having a field day with this buying "carbon credits" horse puckey. I hear one such firm planted trees in Uganda. Problem was destitute farmers who needed the land were cutting them down.

Mary, fear not - no tree-planting scams in Uganda for me.

Why would I even be interested, in the first place? I've got a line on a guy in Nigeria who died after buying a winning lottery ticket, and his wife will give me 20% of the fortune if only I send her some money to tide her over until the big prize is paid....

Doug (looking forward to Easy Street)

8 glasses a day is what?

Here again, we see how relative things are.

Who, barring extreme thirst, sits down and drinks 8 glasses of water? Not too many people.

Who drinks 8 glasses or cans of pop? Well, some people do - around here Mountain Dew is BIG.

Now who sits down and drinks 8 beers? A TON of people.

Doug,

All that water won't prevent kidney stones, my sister will verify that for you.

Yes Doug, there is much feeling against the rate of temperature change. Again, do your research and keep an open mind. Over a million entries on the google global warming hoax page would indicate there is little consensus on much of anything and a lot of disagreement on many things, including temperature change.

Doug, 3:07PM

There have been changes in the past due to nature and not human activity. Bingo! Nature! We are making progress!

Now who sits down and drinks 8 beers? A TON of people.

The amount of people that engage in an activity do not make that activity any smarter or better for their health.

And really...WHY 8 beers? I mean if you're trying to get drunk..do some shots..and THEN have a beer. lol.

"Try to drink 12 full glasses of water a day. Drinking lots of water helps to flush away the substances that form stones in the kidneys."

Doug,

Horse Puckey. It washes away your electrolytes, overworks your kidneys, and has squat for health benefits. It can also cause fatal water intoxications