According to folklore, zombies are undead corpses, or living dead. Such is IL's parental notification law, and it needs cpr right now.

In 1995 - 13 years ago - the IL legislature passed a parental notice law.

All that was needed then was for the IL Supreme Court to write judicial bypass rules, i.e., provide a path through the courts for minors in abusive homes to abort around parents.

The Supremes, being liberal at the time, just said no.

But in 2006 the Supremes, now numbering more sound than unsound justices, issued rules.

By now, however, IL had a liberal attorney general, Lisa Madigan. (How liberal? She voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.)...

Lisa just needed to get a federal judge's stamp of approval, but she took such sweet time the Supremes finally sent her a kick-in-the-pants letter to get a move on.

So she did. Then the federal judge who was to give that stamp, David Coar, took his sweet time deciding, almost a year.

Finally on February 28 Coar issued his decision, refusing to lift the injunction. He agreed with the ACLU's argument that the law was faulty because it lacked a consent provision. Only this wasn't a parental consent law; it was a parental notification law. There is already an IL law providing proper consent.

Someone must now motion for Coar to reconsider, providing information on the statute he said was missing.

The only 2 someones this can be are Lisa or Cook Co. State Attorney Dick Devine, another pro-abort. And they only have 10 days, expiring tomorrow.

However, any of the 118 IL state attorneys can intervene if they think they are not being adequately represented. Which is where phone calls come in. IL pro-lifers need to call your state attorney today or tomorrow.

I understand calls are being made at a good clip. I just called my sa, and the receptionist said she had received 5 in the last hour. Numbers for northern IL state attorneys are on page 2. You'll have to google yours if living downstate.

COOK County: Richard Devine, 312-325-9200
DEKALB County: Ron Matekaitis, 815-895-7164
DUPAGE County: Joe Birkett, 630-407-8000
KANE County: John Barsanti, 630-232-3500
KENDALL County: Eric Weis, 630-553-4157
LAKE County: Michael Waller, 847-377-3000
MCHENRY County: Louis A. Bianchi, 815-334-4159
WILL County: James Glasgow, 815-727-8453
WINNEBAGO County: Philip Nicolosi, 815-319-4700

I'm having everyone I know in Illinois call right now! Thanks Jill! Of course they won't be saying what you would like for them to say.

Sally, you don't know what they will say. Maybe they will just stab you in the back. *snicker*

Attorney General Lisa Madigan gives birth to daughter
March 11, 2008
The Associated Press
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) -- Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan is a mother for the second time.

She gave birth this morning to Lucy Lillian Madigan Byrnes. Lucy weighs in at 7 pounds, 3 ounces, and is 20-inches long.

Madigan and her husband, Pat Byrnes, also have a three-year-old daughter, Rebecca.

Madigan says in a statement that she's thrilled and that Rebecca is proud to be a big sister.

Madigan will take a short break from her post as she recovers. Until then, she plans to be in daily contact with her staff.

Maybe some of the people you know don't agree with abortion.

oops, above is to Sally.

So, this woman is a mom? Sad that she sees it fit for other babies to die a horrid death. I wonder if she's a good mother.

Maybe some of the people you know don't agree with abortion.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 1:52 PM
.....................................................

You wish heather!

How do you know that they aren't just agreeing with you, because they fear you'll be a PIA if they say otherwise?

I never wanted to "rock the boat" with post abortive women before either. It's compatible to hitting a hornets nest with a stick. It produces lots of irate women. It was always just easier to agree with them.

I'd like to send Lisa Madigan a nice bouquet of flowers for the birth of her second daughter with a note urging her to PLEASE address this parental notification law.

How do you know that they aren't just agreeing with you, because they fear you'll be a PIA if they say otherwise?

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 1:58 PM
.........................................................

I know my family very well Heather. How well do you know yours?

I know that my parents had morals. They didn't believe in killing babies via abortion.

Sally, you don't know what they will say. Maybe they will just stab you in the back. *snicker*

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 1:49 PM
................................

Projecting how your family and friends treat you heather?

Heather,

I guess we just have to accept the fact that there are evil people in the world, heartless people who really can't be changed. These are mostly the feminist abortionists types (Lisa Madigan, Sally, etc). They're just to far gone.

Sally, I don't NEED a lot of friends. I have a lot of acquaintances. That's different.

jasper, true.

I know that my parents had morals. They didn't believe in killing babies via abortion.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 2:08 PM
.............................................

My family is better than your family heather? Could you be a bit more childish?

Sally, you said it. Not me.

Heather,

I guess we just have to accept the fact that there are evil people in the world, heartless people who really can't be changed. These are mostly the feminist abortionists types (Lisa Madigan, Sally, etc). They're just to far gone.
Posted by: jasper at March 12, 2008 2:14 PM
.............................................
Aunt M and Uncle D used to be the directors of the Harbor Light in Chicago. Perhaps you met them there Jasper.

There have been so many rapes and molestations committed on women by abortionists. Imagine how many underage girls will fall prey to the devious baby killer. Protect your children from them.

Janet, 1:50p: Interesting... timely....

This bum Lisa Madigan actually got a "profile in courage" from the Kennedy liberary. Of course, getting any award from Kennedy is not saying much. I think Michael Moore may have received one too.

eeek..that picture is creepy.

There have been so many rapes and molestations committed on women by abortionists. Imagine how many underage girls will fall prey to the devious baby killer. Protect your children from them.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 2:29 PM
..................................

There have been so many acts of violence committed by men. Keep your children away from them. @@

That's right, and the abortion industry protects child predators too.

Sally,

How would you vote on the Born-alive bill...

Sally,

what we can't understand is your sides lack of empathy for unborn children who are killed (and born children). Do you see what I mean?

Sally,

How would you vote on the Born-alive bill...

Posted by: jasper at March 12, 2008 3:08 PM
................................................
Against it. I'm completely against big government and lawyers interfering with medical treatments and decisions.

Sally,

what we can't understand is your sides lack of empathy for unborn children who are killed (and born children). Do you see what I mean?

Posted by: jasper at March 12, 2008 3:14 PM
.................................................

I don't understand how your 'side' cannot see a difference between a zygote and a born child. I find the complete disregard for the essential involvement of a woman's body to create life to be dehumanizing.

That's right, and the abortion industry protects child predators too.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 2:54 PM

..............................................

You betcha! Along with the CPC industry and the RCC industry.

I don't understand how your 'side' cannot see a difference between a zygote and a born child. I find the complete disregard for the essential involvement of a woman's body to create life to be dehumanizing.

Posted by: Sally at March 12, 2008 3:20 PM

How can you be so blind to not differntiate a zygote from a viable baby who had the audacity to survive abortion. These are babies Sally, that should be given the chance to live since they survived the abortion.

Could you be present and witness a baby who could be saved by medical intervention (just like wanted pre-term baby) die while it is struggling for life and not take action? How sadistic.

And don't tell me that's what Jill did. It was against the law for her to interfere.

Sally,

Go take your medication and calm down...you're starting to look a little bit senile here.

Could you be present and witness a baby who could be saved by medical intervention (just like wanted pre-term baby) die while it is struggling for life and not take action? How sadistic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Isn't that exactly what Jill did in that utility room?
It's not like she demanded treatment or comfort measures or called an ambulance to have the premature infant taken to another hospital. She didn't She sat there and did nothing.

She sat there and did nothing.

Why do you care FF? You support that. Or are you switching sides on us? Outraged one minute and completely content the next. Are you sure you're not mentally unstable? You really can't seem to make up your mind.

I don't understand how your 'side' cannot see a difference between a zygote and a born child. I find the complete disregard for the essential involvement of a woman's body to create life to be dehumanizing.

Posted by: Sally at March 12, 2008 3:20 PM

How can you be so blind to not differntiate a zygote from a viable baby who had the audacity to survive abortion. These are babies Sally, that should be given the chance to live since they survived the abortion.

Could you be present and witness a baby who could be saved by medical intervention (just like wanted pre-term baby) die while it is struggling for life and not take action? How sadistic.

And don't tell me that's what Jill did. It was against the law for her to interfere.

Posted by: Sandy at March 12, 2008 3:33 PM
.....................................

What did Jill do? She held a fetus of insufficient gestational age to survive birth. A fetus without lungs capable of breathing. A fetus of questionable ability of surviving further gestation if it hadn't been aborted. There is no medical intervention capable of forcing a 22 week fetus to live. Would ripping it's lungs to shreds by attempting ventilation make you feel better? Talk about sadistic! What do you think this bill will accomplish?

What did Jill do? She held a fetus of insufficient gestational age to survive birth. A fetus without lungs capable of breathing. A fetus of questionable ability of surviving further gestation if it hadn't been aborted. There is no medical intervention capable of forcing a 22 week fetus to live. Would ripping it's lungs to shreds by attempting ventilation make you feel better? Talk about sadistic! What do you think this bill will accomplish?

I guess just stick it on a utility shelf then. RIGHT.

Sally and FF are sick women.

Is it just me or are Sally and Laura starting to sound like each other?

She sat there and did nothing.

Why do you care FF? You support that. Or are you switching sides on us? Outraged one minute and completely content the next. Are you sure you're not mentally unstable? You really can't seem to make up your mind.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 12, 2008 4:28 PM
......................................

Jill knows very well that there was no intervention available. Her issue seems to be 'comforting' fetii of insufficient gestational age to appreciate being 'comforted'.

What did Jill do? She held a fetus of insufficient gestational age to survive birth. A fetus without lungs capable of breathing. A fetus of questionable ability of surviving further gestation if it hadn't been aborted. There is no medical intervention capable of forcing a 22 week fetus to live. Would ripping it's lungs to shreds by attempting ventilation make you feel better? Talk about sadistic! What do you think this bill will accomplish?

I guess just stick it on a utility shelf then. RIGHT.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 12, 2008 4:33 PM
..................................
Like it would know the difference. RIGHT!

Carrie, you are right. Sally, now the baby is an "it?"

Sally and FF are sick women.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 4:38 PM
............................................

Heather and Elizabeth are ignorant of fetal development. That's the problem with believing in instant babies at conception

Sally, I maintain that you are a sick lady.

Heather and Elizabeth are ignorant of fetal development. That's the problem with believing in instant babies at conception

And Sally...well she's just ignorant.

Carrie, you are right. Sally, now the baby is an "it?"

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 4:46 PM
..............................................................................

it
pronoun [ third person singular ]
1 used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified : a room with two beds in it | this approach is refreshing because it breaks down barriers.
• referring to an animal or child of unspecified sex : she was holding the baby, cradling it and smiling into its face.
• referring to a fact or situation previously mentioned, known, or happening : stop it, you're hurting me.
2 used to identify a person : it's me | it's a boy!

Do you have a problem with the proper usage of the English language heather?

Heather and Elizabeth are ignorant of fetal development. That's the problem with believing in instant babies at conception

And Sally...well she's just ignorant.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 12, 2008 4:52 PM
......................................

I'm not the one ignorant of the definition of 'it' Elizabeth. Or fetal development. You are looking foolish.

Sally, I often watch THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL 'A BABY STORY'.. They show women who are at various stages of pregnancy. Some of these women are high risk. [[Your favorite thing to discuss]] They film at some of the BEST hospitals in the USA. The doctors ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS say "baby." Why is that?

Here are 2 more shows "BIRTHDAY" and "DELIVER ME." Sally, watch them sometime. You will surely learn something.

And yes, they do say "fetus", but they alternate that with "baby" so it's one in the same.

Hmmm....Sally...I know ALL ABOUT fetal development thank you.

Sally, I often watch THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL 'A BABY STORY'.. They show women who are at various stages of pregnancy. Some of these women are high risk. [[Your favorite thing to discuss]] They film at some of the BEST hospitals in the USA. The doctors ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS say "baby." Why is that?

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 5:01 PM
.......................................................

The doctor never referred to a baby with my high risk pregnancy. And what bloody difference does it make? Saying the word baby makes a fetus magically viable? Passing some bogus bill will magically make every conceptus viable? How naive can you get?

When I was 2 months pregnant, my doctor said "Let's take a listen to your baby's heart beat."

Here are 2 more shows "BIRTHDAY" and "DELIVER ME." Sally, watch them sometime. You will surely learn something.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 5:02 PM
........................................................

Put down the remote control and read a book on fetal development heather. Maybe you will learn something.

Sally, I'll go out on a limb and assume you're not a doctor. An MD is calling it a "baby." I'm agreeing.

Hmmm....Sally...I know ALL ABOUT fetal development thank you.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 12, 2008 5:05 PM
......................................

Really? Exactly what do you think this born alive thing would accomplish? What intervention would have 'saved' the 21 to 22 weeker Jill did so much for by holding?

I have news for you. The books say the same thing. Doctors read a lot of books. I'm sure they know what they are talking about.

I have news for you. The books say the same thing. Doctors read a lot of books. I'm sure they know what they are talking about.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 5:11 PM
...............................

Doctors know that baby is a generic term of endearment. Can't address the issue heather? What do you think this born alive thing will accomplish?

Um, medical intervention will be provided to an innocent child who nobody had any business trying to kill in the first place.

What intervention would have 'saved' the 21 to 22 weeker Jill did so much for by holding?

So you don't believe making someone comfortable while they're dying is the right thing to do then? Let them know that at the nursing home when you check in.

Sally, if you were hit by a car, would you want someone to stop and help you? Would you prefer to be left there injured and dying?

Elizabeth, How true!

Um, medical intervention will be provided to an innocent child who nobody had any business trying to kill in the first place.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 5:18 PM
..................................

What kind of medical intervention heather? What medical intervention would have 'saved' the fetus Jill held and why didn't she seek it? Would it be because none exists?

Because it would have been against the law @ that time. That's why the law was passed.

What intervention would have 'saved' the 21 to 22 weeker Jill did so much for by holding?

So you don't believe making someone comfortable while they're dying is the right thing to do then? Let them know that at the nursing home when you check in.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 12, 2008 5:19 PM
....................................................

Comforted? For the sake of argument, let's assume that this fetus was capable of feeling anything. How do you know that being touched wasn't painful to this fetus?
Projecting your emotionality onto a fetus doesn't make a fetus more than it actually is.
Apparently you are fully aware that this legislation is a waste of tax payer's money but support it any way because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy. It won't do anything to 'save' preemies born or aborted and you know it.

Because it would have been against the law @ that time. That's why the law was passed.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 5:30 PM
................................................

What would have been against the law heather? What medical procedure was denied this fetus?

Comforted? For the sake of argument, let's assume that this fetus was capable of feeling anything. How do you know that being touched wasn't painful to this fetus?

You do know that after a fetus comes out of the mother it is no longer called a fetus don't you? It's technically called a neonate or a baby. So you can stop calling the baby that despite the abortion lived, a fetus. And being stuck on a utility shelf is comfortable? Well, let's stick you on one then when the rest of the world has determined you can't feel anything k? Let us all know how comfortable it is.

Had to take a shower break. Jill would probably have to explain the specific situation to you Sally. I wasn't there. Not that you're listening. However, I've given birth before, and I was blessed to immediately hold my own children in a warm blanket after their births. You're a mother. Why can't you relate?? Would you have wanted one of your newborns to be whisked away and tossed onto a utility shelf?

More background on Coar's decision is at http://www.lifenews.com/state2976.html

Also, if you have ever delivered vaginally, you feel that baby squeeze out. Even during an abortion, wouldn't your curiosity be peaked? Now, what kind of a female would feel such a thing and not have one ounce of curiosity? Sorry if I'm getting too graphic, but it's just so bizarre to me!

You do know that after a fetus comes out of the mother it is no longer called a fetus don't you? It's technically called a neonate or a baby. So you can stop calling the baby that despite the abortion lived, a fetus. And being stuck on a utility shelf is comfortable? Well, let's stick you on one then when the rest of the world has determined you can't feel anything k? Let us all know how comfortable it is.

Posted by: Elizabeth at March 12, 2008 5:44 PM
..........................................................

Quit dodging the question. What medical intervention was denied? What proof do you have that the fetus was capable of feeling anything? And it's a free country. You call a zygote a baby, I can call an dead fetus whatever I like.

What proof do you have that the fetus was capable of feeling anything?

Would that change your mind?

I am NOT dodging the question. What proof do YOU have that a baby doesn't feel any pain? Spare me the info from a PC site. Jill rocked the baby until he died.

OK...here's a way we can solve this issue of Sally and the non-viable, unable to breathe BABY.

Sally will volunteer to have her lungs tied off to the point where she can't breathe.

Then, we'll see how she likes it.

Next, we'll offer her comfort care and put her on a shelf in a closet and shut the door.

After a few hours we can come back in and see how she's doing.

We'll even give her an advantage that the babies don't get: We'll give her a pad and paper and let her write down how it feels.

When it's over, we'll await her response.

Mike, well said. Cripes. I just don't understand why you don't view this as being totally wrong Sally!

It's almost like pro aborts are saying "So what?" "It's not me."

Had to take a shower break. Jill would probably have to explain the specific situation to you Sally. I wasn't there. Not that you're listening. However, I've given birth before, and I was blessed to immediately hold my own children in a warm blanket after their births. You're a mother. Why can't you relate?? Would you have wanted one of your newborns to be whisked away and tossed onto a utility shelf?

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 5:52 PM
.....................................................

Yes, I am a mother and I really don't care what was done with my dead fetus. I certainly hope is was disposed of properly. Of course passing a law making it an infant may have made it mandatory that I pay burial fees. Would that have made it less dead? Would a piece of legislature have magically created a medical procedure to sustain it's life? Of course not.
Once again, what do you think this born alive thing change?

Sally, these aborted babies are born alive. It's not a stillbirth. They are born and left to die. Get it?

"what do you think this born alive thing change?"

It will mean that babies who survive abortion will HAVE to receive medical attention. They can feel pain, and they can respond to their environment. Viability currently is around 22.5 weeks. That means if you are going to have an abortion and it doesn't work, your baby is going to live and you can't say yes or no, cause it's not in YOUR body anymore.

Sally, these aborted babies are born alive. It's not a stillbirth. They are born and left to die. Get it?

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 6:17 PM
......................................

As opposed to what heather? What do you think will make them not die? What medical intervention will keep them alive?
It isn't about saving babies is it heather? It's about forcing women to continue pregnancies with legal terminology. You know very well that there is nothing that can be done to force an embryo or fetus to live once removed from a uterus regardless of the cause of it's removal. You and all of the rest of the PL only wish to control the reproductive freedom women enjoy. It has nothing to do with concern for babies.

"As opposed to what heather? What do you think will make them not die? What medical intervention will keep them alive?
It isn't about saving babies is it heather? It's about forcing women to continue pregnancies with legal terminology. You know very well that there is nothing that can be done to force an embryo or fetus to live once removed from a uterus regardless of the cause of it's removal. You and all of the rest of the PL only wish to control the reproductive freedom women enjoy. It has nothing to do with concern for babies."

The key is that these babies will be helped that are viable and those that survive will be comforted as any human person would want to do.

That it unless you're a barbarian and do what they did - put them out to die (or in a utility room).

No one is forcing any woman to continue a pregnancy. Heaven forbid that we tried to do that dastardly deed.

And I see that you do indeed equate women's reproductive freedom with abortion. Just to be clear.

The key is that these babies will be helped that are viable and those that survive will be comforted as any human person would want to do.

That it unless you're a barbarian and do what they did - put them out to die (or in a utility room).

No one is forcing any woman to continue a pregnancy. Heaven forbid that we tried to do that dastardly deed.

And I see that you do indeed equate women's reproductive freedom with abortion. Just to be clear.
Posted by: Patricia at March 12, 2008 7:42 PM
...........................................

Abortion past viability is illegal in most states. And redundant in the rest. Heather and Elizabeth have failed to explain exactly what medical intervention was withheld from the aborted fetus from Jill's story. Perhaps you can explain how a 21 to 22 week fetus is to be kept alive.
Perhaps you can also explain how such a fetus could possibly be comforted.
And duh! Of course the right to terminate a pregnancy is part and parcel of reproductive freedom.

Abortion past viability is illegal in most states. ******* Well, what happens if it is legal in some states?

Sally, it's not a failure to explain. What was done when babies survived abortions? They put them in the trash.

Abortion past viability is illegal in most states. ******* Well, what happens if it is legal in some states?

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 8:28 PM
............................

You tell me heather. How many late term abortions are performed in this country and why are they performed? Give me some facts. You haven't come up with a single thing yet to support the necessity of this proposed legislation.

One abortionist said this "Aborted babies are just garbage." "That's all they are." Sad? I'd say so.

Sally, here is a site that you may visit. OPERATION RESCUE. George Tiller is an abortionist in Kansas. He will perform a late term abortion at any time, on any woman, and for any reason. It was one of the first sites I found before finding Jill's site. It actually lead me to her site.

Sally, here is another informative site. It's called the Prolife Action League. There are stories about converted abortionists, clinic workers, and women who sought forgiveness after their abortions. I found it interesting. And yes Sally, there are plenty of people on there who had no intention of turning pro life. No way. No how!! However, it happened. I guess you really have to be very tired of all of the lies from the side of choice. These folks finally reached that point.

Former Abortion Clinic Owner Carol Everett
Carol Everett's descent into the abortion industry began after she aborted her third child in 1973, under pressure from her husband and doctor. After the abortion her life began to fall apart; she had an affair, started to drink and eventually left her husband.

With a psychiatrist's help she got her life together enough to go to work for a medical supply company, which led her into the abortion industry. Working for an abortionist showed her how much money can be made in the abortion business, so she decided to open her own clinics.

Ms. Everett told her story at the first Meet the Abortion Providers conference in November 1987. Her statement has been slightly edited for readability.

Carol Everett
We opened our clinic and the first month we did 45 abortions. The last month I was there, with two clinics functioning in the Dallas area, we did over 500 abortions a month in that clinic. I was compensated at the rate of $25.00 per case plus one-third of the clinics, so you can imagine what my motivation was. I sold abortions.

I had made $150,000; was on target in 1983 to make $260,000; and when we opened our five clinics, I would have been taking home about a million dollars a year. I expected to make more than that after we were functioning.

At the time we were planning to open the five clinics there were some problems between the partners. We decided to call in a business counselor and worked with him for thirty days. It turns out this man was a preacher. He told me that God had sent him because there was someone in there that the Lord wanted out. I left in 27 days.

Selling Abortion to Confused Young Women
I'm sure you've seen those numbers advertised that say "Problem Pregnancy," "Abortion Information," or "Pregnant?". When a young girl finds out she is pregnant, she may not want an abortion, she may just want information.

But when she calls that number that's paid for by abortion money, what kind of information do you think she is going to get? Remember, they sell abortions. They don't sell keeping the baby. They don't sell giving the baby up. They don't sell delivering the baby in any form. They only sell abortions.

The counselor that the girl speaks to on the telephone is paid to be her friend. She is supposed to seduce her into a friendship of sorts to sell her the abortion.

I cannot tell you one thing that happens in an abortion clinic that is not a lie.
There are usually two questions the girls ask. The first is: Does it hurt? "Oh, no. Your uterus is a muscle. It's a cramp to open it: a cramp to close it; it's a slight cramping sensation. Everybody's had cramps - every woman in the world."

Then they ask: Is it a baby? "No, it's product of conception; it's a blood clot; it's a piece of tissue."

When the girl goes in for the abortion she pays up front then goes into a room for counseling. They give her a 6 to 12 page form. This form is written by an abortion attorney to confuse the girl to death. It works and she doesn't ask any questions. She goes back to the two questions: Does it hurt? Is it a baby?

I cannot tell you one thing that happens in an abortion clinic that is not a lie.

[Back to Top]

No Words To Describe Abortion
I've never been able to come up with the words to describe the abortion procedure. There are no words to describe how bad it really is. It kills the baby.

Carol Everett at Providers I
I've seen sonograms with the baby pulling away from the instruments that are introduced into the vagina. And I've seen D & E through 32 weeks done without the mother being put to sleep. Yes, they are very painful to the baby. But, yes they are very, very painful to the woman. I've seen six people hold a woman on the table while they did the abortion.

Two Reactions: Acceptance or Denial
After the abortion, the girls are brought to the recovery room where there are two reactions. The first is: "I've killed my baby." It amazed me that it was the first time they called it a baby and the first time they called it murder. That is probably the healthiest reaction. That woman is probably going to have the ability to walk out of there and deal with it, and perhaps be healed and move on.

The second reaction is: "I am hungry. You have kept me in here for four hour and you told me I'd only be here for two. Let me out of here".

She is running from her abortion. She is not dealing with it; she's choosing to deny it. They say it's now an average of five years before people actually deal with the fact that, yes, they did kill their baby.

[Back to Top]

Women Injured -- and Killed
The girls that walk out of there are the lucky ones. We were seeing over 500 abortions per month and doing one-day second and third trimester abortions. We didn't use the laminaria, we did all the dilation on that one day and we were seeing a tremendous amount of complications.

The girls that walk out of there are the lucky ones.
Yes, we had a death. A 32-year old woman with a 17-year-old son and a 2-year-old son. Never made the papers. Her boyfriend felt guilty for his part in the abortion and he didn't want to deal with it. Her family thought, yes, she had probably had an abortion, but they didn't want to deal with it. It never came out. No lawsuit.

Then there was the girl who the doctors decided had a fibroid tumor at the back of her uterus. That's a highly common tumor that's very rarely malignant. The two doctors decided they were just going to pull it out after her abortion. They didn't know they were pulling on the back of her uterus, and they pulled the uterus out wrong-side-out of a 21-year-old; she had a hysterectomy.

The Effectiveness of Pro-Life Witness
Every time you pro-life activists are standing in front of the clinic you are holding a light on inside that clinic. You are holding those people accountable.

That day they are less likely to do an abortion on the woman who is not pregnant, or the woman who is too far along. The abortionist who brags about doing eight, ten, even twelve abortions an hour will slow down. He's afraid of you.

[Providers Index]
[Back to Top]

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Sally, this woman aborted 3 children and operated an abortion clinic. She is now pro life.

Sally, here is a site that you may visit. OPERATION RESCUE. George Tiller is an abortionist in Kansas. He will perform a late term abortion at any time, on any woman, and for any reason. It was one of the first sites I found before finding Jill's site. It actually lead me to her site.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 8:43 PM
................................................

Tiller's web sight clearly states for fetal anomaly. That isn't just any reason. Post viability abortion is illegal in KS. Are you completely incapable of thinking for yourself? Researching anything at all?

Tiller's site may say that, but that's not true.

Sally, this woman aborted 3 children and operated an abortion clinic. She is now pro life.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 8:59 PM
.......................................

You poor thing! How long has the cult been holding you prisoner?
I am quite familiar with the trash you read. Not a one of them can answer a straight question either.

Slumps to floor. Okay. Maybe next time. I can't say that I'm really surprised that you aren't exactly embracing this information, but I assure you that I didn't just pull it out of The National Enquirer. Sally, I think that you are in denial and pain. I will continue to pray for you. Someone must have done some praying for Carol Everett.

Sally, until you are out of denial, you won't begin to heal. I believe that must come first.

Tiller's site may say that, but that's not true.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 9:06 PM
...........................

I was incorrect in not adding that abortion is legal in Kansas in cases of detriment to a woman's health. Still not just any reason.

Tiller's web sight clearly states for fetal anomaly. That isn't just any reason. Post viability abortion is illegal in KS. Are you completely incapable of thinking for yourself? Researching anything at all?

Posted by: Sally at March 12, 2008 9:03 PM

Sally,
why do you think this man is under investigation?
Also, most states have laws that allow abortion past viability for the "mothers' health reasons"
This statement is left undefined so that a woman could request and abortion over a hang nail up to full term.

It happens all the time. You are the one you has drank the kool-aid Sally. Wake up.

Look up the laws Sally and quit with the same old tired rhetoric that doesn't work.

"At Women's Health Care Services, we specialize in "late" abortion care. We are able to perform elective abortions to the time in the pregnancy when the fetus is viable. Viability is not a set point in time. Viability is determined by the attending physician and is based on sonogram results, physical examination and last menstrual period date (if known). Our telephone counselors will ask you a number of medical questions to determine if you are eligible for an elective abortion. If you have visited another clinic or physician, we will ask for the results from a recent ultrasound.

Kansas law allows for post-viability abortion procedures when continuing the pregnancy is detrimental to the pregnant woman's health. Each person's circumstances are reviewed on a case-by-base basis. Please call so that we can discuss admission criteria with you."

http://www.drtiller.com/elect.html

Sally,
I believe that a woman's "mental health" also falls into the "it's ok to kill the baby after viability" clause also.

Sally, until you are out of denial, you won't begin to heal. I believe that must come first.

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 9:22 PM
............................................

I've never been afflicted with the inability to think for myself, question or research. I cannot imagine why I should need to be healed from ability. But thanks for the 'deep' insight into a typical PL. Best wishes Heather! See ya round the cooler.

JLM, yes he does do it for "mental health" issues. Even if there really aren't any. Thank you for the reminder.

Post viability abortion is illegal in KS. Are you completely incapable of thinking for yourself? Researching anything at all?

Kansas law allows for post-viability abortion procedures when continuing the pregnancy is detrimental to the pregnant woman's health. Each person's circumstances are reviewed on a case-by-base basis. Please call so that we can discuss admission criteria with you."

http://www.drtiller.com/elect.html

(just in case you missed it!)

Sally, not too sure what that meant, but LOL anyway!

Sally, you see? Post viability abortions.

...legal in Kansas

Sally, some of these women go through almost 9 months of pregnancy, and then they decide that they want an abortion. George Tiller will "doctor up" the mental health report if need be. The pregnancy is terminated. No questions are asked. The end!

Sally,
Although it is somewhat unusual for a 22 week old fetus to survive, it does happen:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/20/ap/health/mainD8NDO9E80.shtml

As technology and medical treatment continue to improve, the age of viability is lowered. In the 1950's age of viability was around 30 weeks; 25 years ago it was around 25 weeks; and it has continued to drop since that time. About 40 percent of babies born at 23-24 weeks survive.

Nevertheless, if a baby survives an abortion at 21 or 22 weeks, comfort care should be given to these babies. It may be that they will not survive, but we should do all we can to help them.
Viability is not measured really by weeks gestated - it is a very individual factor, since we all develop at different rates. It is dependent upon weight but also other factors as well and the technology available.
Babies under 24 weeks are kept alive using a variety of means: antenatal corticosteroids, mechanical ventilation, and exogenous surfactant replacement among others.

Please call so that we can discuss admission criteria with you

This admission criteria would be:

--you woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day.
--the baby kicked you funny
--you have a headache
--you just took your childbirth class and decided you were NOT going to go through that.

Sally

4:31 post

"There is no medical intervention capable of forcing a 22 week fetus to live."

At our local hospital a 21-week old baby was delivered 6 days ago and is still alive.

Sandra,
That's incredible! Let's hope this tiny one makes it!

I think Sally has checked out. Hopefully, she will read the last few posts before getting her beauty sleep.
I'm off to get mine!

Sally,
You don't need to be healed from "ability, questioning, research or thinking for yourself."
The way you treat people is evidence of the pain that you are in. You don't believe it's a baby. Your heart knows it is.
I pray for you too!!

If you have had an abortion and regret it and would like to further prolife legislation, please go to http://operationoutcry.org
You can now type out your abortion story online and submit it. Your story will join mine. Your voice will be heard. Abortion hurts women.

I love you Carla! You're such a great mommy!

Right back atcha my sweet Elizabeth!!

Sally, some of these women go through almost 9 months of pregnancy, and then they decide that they want an abortion. George Tiller will "doctor up" the mental health report if need be. The pregnancy is terminated. No questions are asked. The end!

Posted by: heather at March 12, 2008 9:38 PM
........................
Sure they do. And of course he will because you read it somewhere. Go drink your Kool Aid.

Sally

4:31 post

"There is no medical intervention capable of forcing a 22 week fetus to live."

At our local hospital a 21-week old baby was delivered 6 days ago and is still alive.

Posted by: Sandra at March 12, 2008 9:57 PM
.......................

Really? What is the prognosis? I'd bet good money that you don't know and don't care.

I'd bet good money that you don't know and don't care.

Dang, Sally...what happened? Get into a fight with the bf? Sad the kids aren't around?

Relax a little...there ARE other opinions out there..you know other than your own. I know that MAY be shocking but try to grasp it okay.

Tiller's web sight clearly states for fetal anomaly. That isn't just any reason. Post viability abortion is illegal in KS. Are you completely incapable of thinking for yourself? Researching anything at all?

Posted by: Sally at March 12, 2008 9:03 PM

Sally,
why do you think this man is under investigation?
Also, most states have laws that allow abortion past viability for the "mothers' health reasons"
This statement is left undefined so that a woman could request and abortion over a hang nail up to full term.

It happens all the time. You are the one you has drank the kool-aid Sally. Wake up.

Look up the laws Sally and quit with the same old tired rhetoric that doesn't work.

Posted by: Sandy at March 12, 2008 9:23 PM
.........................

Damn! You folks have pulled down your facades for me today and totally exposed your agenda for what it is. None of you PL have a clue about gestation or fetal development. Mindless wonders. Each and every one. Bueno bye bye. Got a paper to write.

email to Lisa Madigan:
We are parents of six children in Illinois. Their ages are 16, 14, 12, 8, 2.5, and 1 years old. The state of Illinois expects me to "exercise reasonable control" over my children. I do not mind that at all. I agree that parents should have responsibilty for their children’s actions and for the welfare of their children. And the state acknowledged this when they passed the Illinois Parental Notification Act of 1995.

According to the Act which was unanimously passed by the Illinois General Assembly:

“The medical, emotional, and psychological consequences of abortion are sometimes serious and long?lasting, and immature minors often lack the ability to make fully informed choices that consider both the immediate and long?range consequences.
Parental consultation is usually in the best interest of the minor and is desirable since the capacity to become pregnant and the capacity for mature judgment concerning the wisdom of an abortion are not necessarily related.”

I whole-heartedly agree with the sentiments expressed in this Act. It is my understanding that parents in 34 other states have been afforded this protection for their children and that the U.S. Supreme Court has deemed these types of laws constitutional. I am disgusted that this law has been on the books now for thirteen years in Illinois and has still not been enforced.

I do not trust these privately run abortion clinics that Planned Parenthood is opening up all over the place. They have virtually no governmental oversight, because they claim “reproductive privacy” about the abortions they perform. They are not open and honest in conducting their business. They have a record of hiding their intentions from the townspeople when opening new abortion clinics. In fact, Planned Parenthood Executive Steve Trombley has been on the record as stating he hid the opening of the new facility in Aurora from the residents, because he did not want them interfering with the building process.

I also know that the Aurora City Council voted unanimously to pass a resolution asking you to please give them an enforceable Parental Notification Act. These girls are not even at the age of legal consent for sex in our state. It is our government’s duty to enforce this law and give parents a way to maintain oversight of their unemancipated minors. Please reply and let me know what you intend to do to correct this travesty of justice.

"In fact, Planned Parenthood Executive Steve Trombley has been on the record as stating he hid the opening of the new facility in Aurora from the residents, because he did not want them interfering with the building process."

Hey, isn't that the same guy seen flying to Texas with Jill Stanek last month?

Sally,

According to the 14th amendment of the US Constitution, We become citizens and should be granted all the civil rights afforded to persons under the Equal Protection Clause.

“ Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. ”

Don't feel bad Sally, I know a guy who studied Constitutional Law and he voted against the Born Alive Infact Act on Constitutional grounds. I guess he musta missed class when they covered the 14th Amendment.

12:22 post should have said:

According to the 14th amendment of the US Constitution, we become citizens and should be granted all the civil rights afforded to persons under the Equal Protection Clause.

“ Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. ”

Posted by: truthseeker at March 13, 2008 12:22 AM

I got the same thing wrong again, sorry I am having formatting issues. Try one more time:

According to the 14th amendment of the US Constitution, WHEN WE ARE BORN we become citizens and should be granted all the civil rights afforded to persons under the Equal Protection Clause.

“ Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. ”

Posted by: truthseeker at March 13, 2008 12:22 AM

Posted by: truthseeker at March 13, 2008 12:28 AM

http://neoreviews.aappublications.org/cgi/content/extract/7/10/e511

This kind of data is good. Sometimes I like passing around information from Japan, because abortion supporters certainly can't whine about the data being tainted by prolife bias. More than 15 year ago, the Japanese ministry of health pushed the threshold of viability back to 22 weeks gestation, and Japan's neonatologists intervene to treat kids at that age. I can give some nice data from the U.S. also, but I think the abortion supporters might digest the info from Japan a bit better. The smallest kid I ever "fed" weighed less than 400 grams, and my experience is not extensive.

A few examples of some goodies which help keep the young preemies alive. Beractant is the name of the lung surfactant that allows the little preemies to breath. For prospective early deliveries, moms get betamethasone injections, 2 of them, 12 or 24 hours apart. It helps with lung maturation processes in the fetus, before delivery. There's a problem with patent ductus arteriosus, in the very young kids, and they receive treatment with indomethacin for that. Look up the newer use for Vitamin A given 3 times per week.

Sally,
I note that you did not give any evidence that you read or understood my 9:42pm post.
You asked what medical interventions are capable of aiding a 22 week old fetus? Your question seems to imply that there is nothing that can help such a young baby. However, I provided you with an answer.
When Sandra provided further proof, you blew her off!
What IS your problem?
Are you so pigheaded that you can't concede any point?
"Damn! You folks have pulled down your facades for me today and totally exposed your agenda for what it is. None of you PL have a clue about gestation or fetal development."

Your above 2 statements make no sense.
It's actually YOU who don't know what you are talking about. You don't want to know about fetal development. You can't know about fetal development because then the delusion bubble bursts.

Patricia, sadly this seems to be a pattern with Sally. Selective comprehension.

Google fetal development and it isn't too tough to figure out. I have 4 pregnant blogging friends who have a little ticker on their sidebar...counting the days and the showing the babies development.

But what do I know?! I'm just a mommy.

Thanks Kb for your interesting information. I know the mom's getting shots before prospective deliveries has been around for some time now.
My girlfriend had her first baby 2 month premature and had the shots. He's now 24 years old!

All parental consent laws must be OPPOSED because they end with "....and then you can kill the baby."

Regulating abortion is worse than a mortal sin.

The all-conquering Rob Zombie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1MQW5e6KcE