before this election is over, his votes against BAIPA will have made a fool out of Obama. (and Marcotte)

Wow, Jill, Amanda thinks your are the Pro-life zeitgeist!

Oh yes Obama, who whines like a petulant child when he's asked "unfair" questions and tells a journalist he doesn't like his ears made fun of.

If the senator makes a fool of anyone its himself.

It has been awhile since I used the word "hate" to describe my feelings toward another person, 5th grade perhaps? I'm not sure I can remember how to debate adolescently.

Hmm. That comment seems pretty adolescent to me. Seems you've remembered.

I think Amanda and all of her pro-abort BFFs should witness induced abortion and then have to care for a dying child fighting for life.

Let's just see how pro-abort they are then.

I hardly doubt they could handle the real truth.

The only thing Amanda needs is prayer and firm patience.

I wish her no ill, but also I have no desire to entertain her puerile rants.

Amen, Sandy !

Amen, Sandy !!!!!

Chris:9:11 AM: The only thing Amanda needs is prayer and firm patience.

Amen.

Sorry to interrupt the amen chorus, but...

Does anyone have a transcript or news account of the testimony before the Illinois legislature that the article refers to? I am curious.

I need to add my amen to the amen chorus.
AMEN!!

Sandy,
To be honest, I really don't think they'd bat an eyelid or two. I think Amanda would likely do what most of the proaborts on this board would do - wrap the struggling baby in newspaper and put it aside.
If you can abort your own children, or help others do it, why would this bother you.
And remember, according to SoMG, being squeamish doesn't mean your prolife! It just means you've got a weak stomach. So toughen up to wimpy proaborts!

God, I'm impaired today, or what?!! lol
The last line should read "So toughen up you wimpy proaborts!"

And Sandy, I didn't mean you personally - I was using the pronoun "you" collectively to mean proaborts!

Just how did Obama make Jill look like a fool?

The Act passed; wouldn't he look more the dunce for being the lone supporter?

If you're out there Amanda, I would really be interested in how you would react to an abortion such as Jill witnessed. Hypothetical, I know, but humor me.

I think Amanda and all of her pro-abort BFFs should witness induced abortion and then have to care for a dying child fighting for life.

Let's just see how pro-abort they are then.

I hardly doubt they could handle the real truth.

Posted by: Sandy at April 22, 2008 9:01 AM
*******************
What 'real truth'? That over 60% of abortions are performed by 8 weeks? that over 90% of abortions are performed in the first trimester? that between 96 and 97% of abortions are performed by RU486 or suction curettage? That there are fewer than 500 third trimester abortions in the US per year and the reasons for those are atypical? Which 'real truth' do you think other people 'cant handle'?

Janet,

ask MK or Bethany for my email addy or have MK or Bethany email your email addy if you are willing to share it with me. I need to ask you about something. If you don't want to share it, that's OK too, I totally understand.

I'm not all that familiar with RH Reality check, but their front page is a joke of journalism.

There's a pic of B16, with the line, "In 1968, Catholic Church doctrine forbade the use of contraception..."
Yeah. Great fact checking there.

She also describes the pope:
hierarchy headed by a man who built his career on opposition to liberation and feminist theology

It's almost like an Onion version of that stupid Emily X blog.

Janet, re your pathetic little tap dance to try to get your foot out of your mouth on the 19 April New Poll / Old Poll thread - if you had any integrity you would be embarassed for getting caught trying to pretend you could prove your inventions when you couldnt, and you would be ashamed of yourself. If you had any integrity you would simply admit you couldnt prove anything you said. But I know you are neither one. Youve lost any scrap of credibility you ever had.

Whether the abortion occurs at 8 weeks or 18 weeks a baby still dies.
That's the real truth.

At 1.5 million per year, that's alot of dead babies.

Patricia,
And millions of wounded women.

oh wait...TR will say...we were all whacked before we had abortions. Riigghhtt.

Youve lost any scrap of credibility you ever had.

OOOOOOooooooo...now you've done it, Janet.

You just blew your credibility with TR.

(And I ALMOST got through typing that with a straight face!) ;)

Janet, shame on you for ruining your TR credibility.

yeah, that's right Carla, apparently, there are 1.5 million women each year who are mental in the US.
OR maybe it's the same 1.5 million women who keep getting pregnant each year and having abortions.

48 million mental women since 1973.

Janet, shame on you for ruining your TR credibility.

yeah, that's right Carla, apparently, there are 1.5 million women each year who are mental in the US.
OR maybe it's the same 1.5 million women who keep getting pregnant each year and having abortions.

Posted by: Patricia at April 22, 2008 12:58 PM
*********************
Patricia are you possibly bipolar and in a manic state right now? Because you certainly are becoming less and less coherent.

TR 12:39:Janet, re your pathetic little tap dance to try to get your foot out of your mouth on the 19 April New Poll / Old Poll thread - if you had any integrity you would be embarassed for getting caught trying to pretend you could prove your inventions when you couldnt, and you would be ashamed of yourself. If you had any integrity you would simply admit you couldnt prove anything you said. But I know you are neither one. Youve lost any scrap of credibility you ever had.

Oh, do you mean how you asked me to prove my statement where I basically said "porn was bad", and after being at the blog all afternoon I had to do some housework, and that I said I had no desire to search the internet for RESEARCH ON THE HARMFUL EFFECTS OF PORN, and I suggested you ask some of your counselor friends for their opinions?

I've forgotten that already. Move on, dear. God bless you.

Patricia,
And millions of wounded women.

oh wait...TR will say...we were all whacked before we had abortions. Riigghhtt.

Posted by: Carla at April 22, 2008 12:45 PM
***************
Thats factual information Carla. I can see how youd be very uncomfortablecoming to terms with that.

oh so there's 48 million unstable mentally ill women in the us?
wonder how many mentally ill men there are?

Patricia: oh so there's 48 million unstable mentally ill women in the us? wonder how many mentally ill men there are?

What do you figure - 8? 10?

Oh, do you mean how you asked me to prove my statement where I basically said "porn was bad", and after being at the blog all afternoon I had to do some housework, and that I said I had no desire to search the internet for RESEARCH ON THE HARMFUL EFFECTS OF PORN, and I suggested you ask some of your counselor friends for their opinions?

I've forgotten that already. Move on, dear. God bless you.

Posted by: Janet at April 22, 2008 1:04 PM
*************
Of course you want to forget it. You made something up then got caught lying. You didnt say a thing about 'opinions' or 'my friends'. You told me to ask 'any' mental health care professional for 'proof' of the 'damage' pornography was doing to the United States and I asked you for studies which proved what you said. You couldnt do it so you started to tap dance just like youre tap dancing now. As Ive said before, if people had any integrity and valued the truth and valued telling the truth then they couldnt be antichoice. You just proved that to me one more time.

You just blew your credibility with TR.

(And I ALMOST got through typing that with a straight face!) ;)

Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 22, 2008 12:52 PM
******************
She got caught lying. Of course that doesnt mean a thing to antichoicers.

Whether the abortion occurs at 8 weeks or 18 weeks a baby still dies.
That's the real truth.

At 1.5 million per year, that's alot of dead babies.

Posted by: Patricia at April 22, 2008 12:42 PM
***************************
Killing babies is against the law.
Abortion is legal and its going to stay that way.
Thats the real truth.

Janet, how can you say "porn is bad"?
Badness is a matter of interpretation. Scientists don't agree on when badness begins. It's just silly to say that because the end results of pornography are bad, that porn is bad.

It is a potential bad which means it's not really bad at all so do whatever you want.

::snark::

TR's hyperventilating again.

Janet, I followed that entire exchange and I have to say YOU gave TR far more credibility than she deserved by even participating in trying to make sense out of her ravings.

Milehimama: I hope you make the same argument for guns, because if you don't you're a hypocrite.

TR: I don't feel like wasting time to review that post, because I don't care. We disagree. So what?

Hooves-

Yeah, What was I thinking? lol. What a waste of an afternoon it was.

"As Ive said before, if people had any integrity and valued the truth and valued telling the truth then they couldnt be antichoice. You just proved that to me one more time.

You wouldn't know truth if it hit you in the FACE TR. Like, uhm, women's pelvis' aren't designed for having babies. You mean like that truism!?

Doug: try and multiply 8 by 6 million
behind every woman who has an abortion is a man who made the baby with her - oh, but I forgot, you basically implied on the other post that "real" men don't make decisions re: abortion
They just leave the woman holding the bag.....
Maybe that's why 82% of women who have abortions are unmarried or separated...

TR:

I'm going to go now. Can I? Huh? Can I? Can I? Huh?, Huh? :)

Well, look at it this way:

She's good for a laugh, and that's about it.

Hooves,
The end results of guns are not always bad. Guns can actually do a lot of good.

Also, women aren't routinely sexually degraded while manufacturing guns.

Children aren't sold on the black market to satisfy the fetishes of gunowners.

I don't see how "porn" and "guns" are all that comparable.

What 'real truth'? That over 60% of abortions are performed by 8 weeks? that over 90% of abortions are performed in the first trimester? that between 96 and 97% of abortions are performed by RU486 or suction curettage? That there are fewer than 500 third trimester abortions in the US per year and the reasons for those are atypical? Which 'real truth' do you think other people 'cant handle'?

Posted by: TexasRed at April 22, 2008 12:31 PM

First of all, the thread is about late term induced abortions.

Second of all, please post your source TR. And I want an unbiased source. I bet Tiller the Killer performs that many third trimester abortions in his clinic in one year.

The reasons for these are atypical like.....
going to a rock concert? Wanting to go on vacation? Doesn't want to look fat?????

Janet:

You STAY!!

;)

I don't see how "porn" and "guns" are all that comparable.

They aren't. The point I was trying to illustrate is that when a left-winger (who usually is pro gun control) tries to defend something like porn using the argument that IT(porn) isn't GOOD or BAD...it's just how it's used that makes it good or bad, they won't usually ascribe the same "logic" to guns. Guns are ALWAYS bad. Guns kill people, they say.

Do you see the parallel I was trying to make about hypocrisy in logic?

OK--I've played long enough....gotta go change the oil in my car. Will check back later.

The point I was trying to illustrate is that when a left-winger (who usually is pro gun control) tries to defend something like porn using the argument that IT(porn) isn't GOOD or BAD...it's just how it's used that makes it good or bad, they won't usually ascribe the same "logic" to guns. Guns are ALWAYS bad. Guns kill people, they say.

Hooves, pretty good.

You know what Eddie Izzard said,

“Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun).”

You didn't ask me, Janet. Don't I MATTER....

Doug, 1:37PM

Thing is some monkeys are indeed ferocious enough to kill humans and do. They don't need a gun.

Nicole Simpson's killer didn't have a gun. Unfortunately neither did she.

I don't think Obama made a fool of Jill- not possible. Besides, hed be cutting off his nose to spite his face in light of the damage BAIPA did to his presidential campaign.

"She's good for a laugh, and that's about it."
----------------------------------------

Yup...that she is....

Patricia:
Get over yourself already! Lol :)

Don't know if you guys remember the rash of postal shootings back in the 80's (of the fame "going postal") but I saw a great bumper sticker back then that said:

Guns don't kill people. Postal workers do.

Nicole Simpson's killer didn't have a gun. Unfortunately neither did she.

Mary, I heard O.J. was going from golf course to golf course, "looking for the real killer."

You just blew your credibility with TR.

(And I ALMOST got through typing that with a straight face!) ;)

Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 22, 2008 12:52 PM
**********
HA! HA! LOL! HA! That is probably the most funniest thing I've read in a long time! I can't stop laughing! your on you way! ha!

Hooves, pretty good.

Wow...I got a nod from Doug. I'm flattered!

Patricia: oh so there's 48 million unstable mentally ill women in the us? wonder how many mentally ill men there are?

What do you figure - 8? 10?

Doug: try and multiply 8 by 6 million

You do realize I was totally kidding, right? Heck, if there's 48 million women who are "unstable" then I figure it's 60 or 70 million men who are. Hell, maybe 100 million.
......

behind every woman who has an abortion is a man who made the baby with her - oh, but I forgot, you basically implied on the other post that "real" men don't make decisions re: abortion

You don't need a colon after "re." Do you want me to be really serious, here? If so, then while yes, man and woman are involved, I feel strongly that the bottom-line decision is hers. He is free to give his opinion, and the woman can take it into account. A "real man" isn't going to go against what's best for the woman.
......

They just leave the woman holding the bag.....

You could say that, sometimes, sure, but it boils down to one person making the decision.
......

Maybe that's why 82% of women who have abortions are unmarried or separated...

I think you jumped the track there. Yes, the 82% sounds right - last I saw from the CDC and AGI was 83% being unmarried, though that includes those who are widowed and divorced.

I think your "why" isn't correct, however, since it's quite a substantial number of women who are married and/or who live with a guy - 42%. Add to that the women who are still in the relationship, where the guy didn't "dump" her, and it's a lot.

If anything I think we go the other direction, seeing that unmarried and separated or otherwise single women are going to be more likely to have abortions than married women. Makes sense to me.

Wow...I got a nod from Doug. I'm flattered!

Hooves, never said it was my mission to demonize every Pro-Lifer. ; ) Credit where credit be due.

I go right with what you said, that some arguments consist of saying, in effect, that "this is good because....it's good," and the same for "bad."

That's really not "logic," it's just stating opinion.

Doug 2:23PM

OJ never found him??

The point I was trying to illustrate is that when a left-winger (who usually is pro gun control) tries to defend something like porn

Oh, that explains why I was confused. I'm not exactly a left winger so I don't really "get" how they think (or don't think, as the case may be).

(or don't think, as the case may be)

LOL!

I was very anti gun control in college and got into lots of debates with "intellectuals" who would argue in favor of their pet perversion as being neither "good" or "bad", but when it came to guns the fangs would come out and GUNS WERE BAD!!

Freakin' drove me nuts. I retaliated by plastering the entire hatch of my Civic with pro-gun bumper stickers. It was very entertaining!!

Mary, no, somehow "the real killer" has always eluded O.J., though I think he alluded to him in the book 'If I Did It.'

Guys, check this out:

36 shootings, 9 homicides reported in Chicago over weekend

The Associated Press
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
CHICAGO: An outburst of gunfire rattled the city during the weekend, with at least nine people killed in 36 separate acts of violence.

The shootings were reported from Friday until Monday morning, police spokeswoman Monique Bond said Monday. They included gang shootings, drive-by attacks, and even one case in which someone used an AK-47 to shoot up a plumbing supply store.

Then on Monday evening, a man was shot to death and three other people were wounded in a robbery attempt at a McDonald's, police said.

Authorities did not immediately say whether any of the weekend shootings were thought to be related.

Police Superintendent Jody Weis blamed an excess of guns and gangs.

"There are just too many weapons here," Weis said Sunday. "Too many guns, too many gangs."

During the same weekend last year, there were 19 shootings, including four homicides, and 21 shootings were reported during the same weekend in 2006, police statistics show.

New police data released Saturday showed Chicago's murder rate for March was down about 1 percent from March 2007.

She's right...if we could just corral all those guns wandering aimlessly and un-chaperoned down the streets looking for someone to shoot we'd all be safe.

Sheesh.

Doug 3:45PM

That's a big "if" of course.

Quite a use for duct tape.

Great. Thanks Doug. Now I'm blind.

Hooves, fear not - that type of blindness is only temporary. (By the way - good job hitting the keys from memory like that.)

the majority of relationships end post abortion,
suggesting that abortion is a last ditch attempt by the women to salvage a relationship going down the tubes
The sex wasn't suppose to result in a baby by the mans way of thinking.
Unfortunately, women are designed to have babies from sex and to form relationships with the men they have sex with.
That's why no matter how you slice, women are still left holding the bag and abortion is not asolution for them, but another path to being used by men.
Not real men, just bad men.

Hooves-in-Maw, 4:13PM

Its like those SUVs that drive into houses, hit people, and race at high speeds forcing drivers off the road.
One even drove into a house and knocked a guy off the toilet.
These SUVs never have drivers, its always reported that an SUV did this or that.

Those are certainly some amazing vehicles.

Doug 4:25PM

Be still my heart a flutter.

Hooves in law 12:52...I read your post and it cracked me up!

Doug:

That's not duct tape.

He's a Sumo wrestler in hiding.

I think it's a mental disorder akin to being a pro-abort.

the majority of relationships end post abortion,
suggesting that abortion is a last ditch attempt by the women to salvage a relationship going down the tubes
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No, abortion is the responsible choice for women who don't want to drag a child into an already chaotic/abusive relationship.

hisman, can you send me an email sometime?

Next thing you know it will be SUV's with guns.

If you're going to just say no to crack...then do it with style.

And my heaven's...did I read that right--TR is a counsellor??!!

No, abortion is the responsible choice for women who don't want to drag a child into an already chaotic/abusive relationship.

Because heaven knows that staying in a chaotic/abusive relationship is just SO DAMN RESPONSIBLE.

I think I just had a mini throw-up...

He's a Sumo wrestler in hiding.

Ha! Good one, HisMan!

No, abortion is the responsible choice for women who don't want to drag a child into an already chaotic/abusive relationship.

Because heaven knows that staying in a chaotic/abusive relationship is just SO DAMN RESPONSIBLE.

I think I just had a mini throw-up...

Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 22, 2008 5:19 PM
................................................

Having a child with an abusive pretty much gives the abusive access to at least a portion of your life forever now doesn't it. Not to mention another person to abuse. Another pawn to play with.
What do you care? None of it is YOUR responsibility. You can simply sit on your high horse and pontificate.

And please do something about that acid reflux or keep your intestinal problems to yourself.

Since slaughtering a person is abuse,
any woman who takes any preborn child to be slaughtered in an abortuary is ipso facto dragging that child into an abusive "relationship". Perps always abuse their victims; and every abortionist is a perpetrator of murder of the unborn, whether the law currently recognizes this or not.

Never ceases to amaze how pro-aborts mindlessly cling to the monikers "pro-choice" when referring to themselves and "anti-choicers" when referencing those who are opposed to the slaughter of innocent human beings at any stage of life. Roughly 55 million slaughtered since 1973 (a figure dwarfed if you include the preborn killed by abortifacient "contraceptives" and women for whom the "responsible choice"-whether committed chemically or surgically, proved to be the "choice" that ended all choices for her as well as her and her killer-for-hire's main target, her child.)
None of the babies killed were pro-choice, or even given a chance to weigh in on a life and death decision in which they had the most at stake.

I've heard many post-abortive women state that they felt that they had no choice, that they had to do it. The legitimacy of the imperative sense is debatable, but that it precludes free choice is not.

I've also heard a number of them state that if they had known then what they know now, they would not have done it. That sounds more like bait and switch than a legitimate, responsible, medical choice.

And I've never met a pro-abort yet who wouldn't want someone to intervene and halt the proceedings if what is done to the preborn in an abortion were about to be done to them. Actually, since most of the living, breathing, blathering borties I've met were born after Roe v. Wade, it very well could have been done to them. If it had, it's not a foetus who would not be here today, but the kindergarten, elementary, middle school, high school, and college students; the professional working folks under 35, who wouldn't be here. After all, no individual stays a foetus for even as long as a year; and no individual becomes another person at birth, or at any time afterward.

It has been awhile since I used the word "hate" to describe my feelings toward another person, 5th grade perhaps? I'm not sure I can remember how to debate adolescently.
..................................................

But your buttons are popping with pride over having your name mentioned anywhere by anyone. Any publicity is good publicity eh Jill?

HI SALLY!! :)

gun control:

We don't want to take away the rights of Americans, but we want destructive guns out of the hands of criminals and students. So along with laws like stricter background checks, we need to find ways to reduce violence in general.

The argument "if only everyone had a gun, this wouldn't have happened..." is fallacious. Be careful what you wish for.

Talk about gun control, let's try to control the arms trade.

ROFL @ the idea of losing "TR credibility".

ROFLMAO @ TR apparently seriously saying that porn is not harmful to individuals and to the nation. No, porn has never ruined relationships, porn doesn't devalue the human person, and porn certainly doesn't cheapen human life and sexuality. HA.

By the way, as a resident of PA, I voted today... for Hillary! Actually it was a vote against Obama, but same diff. Obama is a such a freaking loon that I would be happy with a Clinton in the White House if it meant no Obama. Though obviously I'd much, much rather have a McCain in there.

As someone born while my mom was in a very abusive marraige, I'm sure as anything glad my mom didn't "do the responsible thing." Evidently, my dad even tried to kill my mom in front of me as a very young child (I don't remember it, just remember that they would fight). My mom divorced my biological father when I was three or four and remarried my dad who adopted me. He said I was part of the reason for marrying my mom (whom he loves very much). We have a very special relationship, having been able to "choose" each other. I now have five wonderful brothers and sisters. I have a husband I could not love more, a beautiful daughter and another baby due this coming month.

I am very, very, very glad my mom did not kill me before I was born, despite being in an abusive relationship.

Amen Elizabeth!!

Laura 5:15PM
Sally 5:41PM

Then my mother should have aborted me. I'm very thankful she didn't.

Yes PIP...we all know nobody ever gets shot in Washington DC.

And good luck in reducing violence in a society where you can dismember your children and flush them down a drain so you don't have to miss your party.

Oh, and Sally....shut up. If you want pontificating from a high horse go talk to Edyt.

Elizabeth G--great story, thanks for sharing!

Since slaughtering a person is abuse,
..........................................

No dearie, that would be murder. Death would ruin the abusive's jollies now wouldn't it.
..........................................................

any woman who takes any preborn child to be slaughtered in an abortuary is ipso facto dragging that child into an abusive "relationship".
..........................................................

Could you be a bit more illogical?
..........................................................

Perps always abuse their victims; and every abortionist is a perpetrator of murder of the unborn, whether the law currently recognizes this or not.
..........................................................

In your remarkably foolish opinion of course.
...........................................................

Never ceases to amaze how pro-aborts mindlessly cling to the monikers "pro-choice" when referring to themselves and "anti-choicers" when referencing those who are opposed to the slaughter of innocent human beings at any stage of life. Roughly 55 million slaughtered since 1973 (a figure dwarfed if you include the preborn killed by abortifacient "contraceptives" and women for whom the "responsible choice"-whether committed chemically or surgically, proved to be the "choice" that ended all choices for her as well as her and her killer-for-hire's main target, her child.)
None of the babies killed were pro-choice, or even given a chance to weigh in on a life and death decision in which they had the most at stake.
......................................................

What a lot of meaningless hyperbole. Attributing impossible attributes to that which is incapable doesn't make your circular argument work.
.....................................................

I've heard many post-abortive women state that they felt that they had no choice, that they had to do it. The legitimacy of the imperative sense is debatable, but that it precludes free choice is not.
.....................................................

Do you fancy yourself the judge of imperatives? God luck with that.
......................................................

I've also heard a number of them state that if they had known then what they know now, they would not have done it. That sounds more like bait and switch than a legitimate, responsible, medical choice.
.......................................................

You're a nutter now aren't you. You have demonstrated no bait and no switch.
.......................................................

And I've never met a pro-abort yet who wouldn't want someone to intervene and halt the proceedings if what is done to the preborn in an abortion were about to be done to them.
..........................................................

Gee! How many people have you proposed the concept of getting sucked out of a woman's uterous, to? Did they tell you to take your meds?
..........................................................

Actually, since most of the living, breathing, blathering borties I've met were born after Roe v. Wade, it very well could have been done to them.
...................................................

Not getting out much or not listening to your elders isn't a good excuse for your foolishness.
....................................................

If it had, it's not a foetus who would not be here today, but the kindergarten, elementary, middle school, high school, and college students; the professional working folks under 35, who wouldn't be here. After all, no individual stays a foetus for even as long as a year; and no individual becomes another person at birth, or at any time afterward.

Posted by: Pat at April 22, 2008 5:42 PM
.....................................................

What's your problem Pat? Not enough young working persons to support you on the dole?

The argument "if only everyone had a gun, this wouldn't have happened..." is fallacious.

Prove it.

Be careful what you wish for.

I wish I could get a concealed weapons permit in California so I wasn't breaking the law by carrying my gun in my purse. But I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6....so be it.

Sally, if you can't converse without being insulting why don't you just go away.

Yes PIP...we all know nobody ever gets shot in Washington DC.

And good luck in reducing violence in a society where you can dismember your children and flush them down a drain so you don't have to miss your party.

Oh, and Sally....shut up. If you want pontificating from a high horse go talk to Edyt.

Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 22, 2008 6:14 PM
...................................................

Shut up? No. You pick up your toys and go to your room little miss snotty nose.

Sorry, that should have been:

Why don't you just go away AGAIN.

Shut up? No. You pick up your toys and go to your room little miss snotty nose.

Another example of a 14 year old posing as an adult.

"The argument "if only everyone had a gun, this wouldn't have happened..." is fallacious.

Prove it."

Imagine VT shootings where everyone has a gun. I'd imagine that there would have been several students shot that were just scared and panicked and assumed that any other person with a gun could have been the killer. Concealed guns on campus with immature students...sounds like a riot. Literally.

And SERIOUSLY, what is your problem?! When have I EVER suggested that cities like DC don't have violence problems? I live in St. Louis, for Christ's sake. My point was that we need to reduce violence rather than trying to ban guns as much. Because if gangs are a problem its not the guns, it is the gangs.

ALSO, repeat this again: PiP is pro-life....PiP is pro-life...PiP is pro-life....you don't think I understand that abortion is another symptom of violence?

HiM....you are not making any sense.

for Christ's sake

You can leave out the blashpheme thank you. And you can calm down....I really don't see what I said that got you all up in a twist. And your hypothetical situation in VT doesn't PROVE anything....you were the one who said "The argument "if only everyone had a gun, this wouldn't have happened..." is fallacious. I never made that statement and I simply asked you to prove your claim somehow. Honestly, why that got you so huffy is a little beyond me.

Hooves-

I really don't want to be a trouble-maker..I don't pretend to know the solution to the guns question. Thank God I don't need a gun where I live. Have you ever looked at gang videos on U-tube? I found at least one that was taped live. (See "Chicago Gangs", or something like that....) Kind of bizarre.) How in the world do we address this problem? Yikes.

Doug:

If TR is truly a counselor, her comments on this site could probably be used to get her credentials yanked or, at a minimum, have a letter of concern inserted into her file, by the regulating board in her state.

And I don't believe any counselor would make such comments unless they themselves needed vast amounts of counseling and were willing to risk their carreer. She's probably a phychic or some charlatan like that.

Further, I can't imagine anyone, even a pro-abort, going to see anyone like this for therapy, knowing her real attitudes towards life. People that need counseling are usually looking for someone to lift them up, not screw them up with a death mentality. I have never once read anything that TR wrote that could be considered uplifting, edifying or otherwise positive in nature.

By the way porn is one of the most destructiive influences in society today. It leads to prostitution, child molestation, divorce, etc.

Conclusion: observe a liar in action, but don't take notes. Her kind of person is toxic to mental and spiritual health.

John:

Operation Choas in action.....cool!

Shut up? No. You pick up your toys and go to your room little miss snotty nose.

Another example of a 14 year old posing as an adult.

Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 22, 2008 6:22 PM
...............................................................

What's next? Poo poo head?

Sally, if you can't converse without being insulting why don't you just go away.

Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 22, 2008 6:20 PM
............................................

If you your only claim to intelligence is insulting that of others, you might go someplace that you won't shame yourself quite so much. Touchy little ego you have going on.

This has a point, I had the most infuriating conversation with the stupidest white guy who claimed since he was 1/8 Native American he knew all about racism and that it was a scam because if people wanted to go to Harvard or whatever all they had to do was work for it. So stupid! And he said he was pro-choice because it is the woman's body, and that he had a girlfriend who had an abortion even though he wanted the kid but that was fine. He looked so upset when he said it, talk about brainwashed. If you don't want your girlfriend to abort your kid don't have sex with her. You do have a choice! Keep it in your pants! Honestly.

Anon, apparently you don't read so good. Sally is the one hurling insults at everyone she can with as much spite as she can muster. I am quite capable of having intellegent discourse with folks I do not agree with here (like Doug), folks who don't resort to insults and spite. It's not my problem if you and Sally cannot handle having me call a spade a spade...by the way, if you think the likes of you or Sally are capable of bruising my ego you need some ego deflation yourself!!

Hisman @ 6:47:

I was thinking the same thing....

No, abortion is the responsible choice for women who don't want to drag a child into an already chaotic/abusive relationship.

Posted by: Laura at April 22, 2008 5:15 PM

Oh yeah -let's kill them to prevent the abuse! That's real smart. A little Laura-logic going on here....

And Elizabeth G and Mary, I"m glad your mothers didn't abort you either!!

Patricia 7:37PM

Thank you for the compliment.
However, whatever we do, let's not hold the abusers responsible for their actions. Heavens no.
The obedient little woman will abort like she's supposed to, and then return to her abuser. How truly liberating. We all know that good and obedient women are never abused, right?

The obedient little woman will abort like she's supposed to, and then return to her abuser. How truly liberating. We all know that good and obedient women are never abused, right?

Posted by: Mary at April 22, 2008 8:21 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We've all seen it about a billion times.
We've all known a woman who not only takes the abuse, but goes back for more again, and again, and again...
If that's what the woman wants, then it's her business, but once she starts producing helpless, vulnerable victims to participate in her sickness and misery it becomes everybody's business.

Laura,

The point is that aborting the woman isn't going to solve anything. What about the children she already has or will have?
Yes I have seen women go back time and again to more abuse, or go from one abusive relationship to another. However, I have never seen abortion in anyway solve the problem.

HiM,

Never knew Christ's sake was blasphemous. I do apologize. But seriously, I live in the most violent city in the nation. Our bank has gotten robbed, several students mugged and a few raped by stepping a block or two off campus.
I was not terribly angry or upset, but I was a little frustrated that you didn't listen to anything I said and made broad assumptions that didn't make sense. Like I don't think I ever claimed that DC was a safe city, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.

"The argument "if only everyone had a gun, this wouldn't have happened..." is fallacious. I never made that statement and I simply asked you to prove your claim somehow."

I think Mary hinted at that statement, and so so so many people have before, so I thought I would bring that up before more people started saying it.
It is flawed in its logic--claiming to reduce violent crimes by handing everyone a gun doesn't make any sense at all. I was giving you a situation to illustrate my point. The way to reduce violent crimes means being able to dig deeper into the root of the problem, rather than looking at the surface of things.
Kind of like abortion, no? Or even the death penalty, in my opinion.

Porn causes child molestation?

Seriously? LOL

Could I see a link for that from a reputable source?

PS - Im back from my trip! Hi everyone!!

Hooves...things here were soooo much further from a middle school lunch room when you were gone.

Hey Amanda! How was your trip?

Hooves...things here were soooo much further from a middle school lunch room when you were gone.

I'm sooooooooo glad Hooves is back!!!!
I missed her!

PIP, 9:33PM

For the record, I support the right of gun ownership and the right to use the gun in self defense. Criminals need not use guns. Baseball bats, knives, fireplace pokers, and bare hands suffice very well.
You may have been referring to my statement concerning the killer of Nicole Simpson. He didn't have a gun, and unfortunately neither did she. She might well be alive today if she had. If nothing else, the knowledge she had one, had a very good aim, and was more than willing to use the gun, may have considerably discouraged him from even coming on her property.
A late family friend of ours was an ex-con who never minced words and was fiercely protective of my family. He said the only thing a stalker or predator will respect is the fact you are dirtier than him/her. If he/she stalks or threatens you, the only thing they will respect is the fact you're going to use whatever means necessary to defend yourself, including killing them.

"No, abortion is the responsible choice for women who don't want to drag a child into an already chaotic/abusive relationship.

Posted by: Laura at April 22, 2008 5:15 PM"

This type of post is an embarrassment to anyone with any sense of morality, dignity, self-respect, integrity, faith or optimism. Would someone please tell me where this type of thinking originates. (I alredy know the answer).

PIP

On a lighter note. I knew a very handsome married man who has had more than a few ladies slip him their phone numbers etc. He and I have been friends for years and can speak very candidly.
He is a very decent,upstanding, and loyal man but I had to kid him and ask him how he resists all this female attention. He replied "its simple, my wife knows how to use a gun!"

Rae,

Thanks! It was AHHHHHMazing.

Theres pics on FB. You know where to find them ;)

Amanda, welcome back from your trip, hope you had a nice time.

"Porn causes child molestation?

Seriously? LOL"

Amanda, yes it can:

http://www.protectkids.com/effects/harms.htm

LOL Mary!

I have no problem with personal ownership of guns. I think education has to be a big part of it...one person in my town was shot and killed by a man that thought he was a burglar when in fact he was just drunk and thought he was locked out of his house. That is why I support legislature that calls for more background checks and mandatory education classes. It doesn't mean that I think guns are evil, I just don't want to hand them out like candy. I think reasonable restrictions are necessary. But ultimately it is the violence we need to solve first...and regarding weapons in general, I think if we are going to focus on it, why not try controlling the arms trade first?

@Amanda: I don't think we're friends on facebook. :(

Amanda, be my facebook friend!

TR 12:39: Janet, re your pathetic little tap dance to try to get your foot out of your mouth on the 19 April New Poll / Old Poll thread - if you had any integrity you would be embarassed for getting caught trying to pretend you could prove your inventions when you couldnt, and you would be ashamed of yourself. If you had any integrity you would simply admit you couldnt prove anything you said. But I know you are neither one. Youve lost any scrap of credibility you ever had.

Oh, for the record, the original posts where the discussion really began, about porn, were under the thread called "AuschWeitz" on April 18, 2008.

I wish I could get a concealed weapons permit in California so I wasn't breaking the law by carrying my gun in my purse. But I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6....so be it.

Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 22, 2008 6:19 PM

****

Troublemakers better stay clear of UC Santa Barbara. they'll get a surprise if not.

No, abortion is the responsible choice for women who don't want to drag a child into an already chaotic/abusive relationship.

Posted by: Laura at April 22, 2008 5:15 PM

****

if they do then okay but most don't want to. better to wait until they're in a good relationship to have kids.

Jasper:10:22: Thanks for linking to the site by Donna Rice Hughes:

"Protecting Kids in Cyberspace"
http://www.protectkids.com/effects/harms.htm

Her main site is also full of great information:

"Enough is Enough"
http://www.enough.org/

I would copy and paste, but I legally can't.

TR: Check out the links at 12:05 post on effects of porn, thanks to Jasper for finding it!

TR's hyperventilating again.

Janet, I followed that entire exchange and I have to say YOU gave TR far more credibility than she deserved by even participating in trying to make sense out of her ravings.

Milehimama: I hope you make the same argument for guns, because if you don't you're a hypocrite.

Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
****************
Maw, youre a liar. I asked her to back up what she said. Thats hardly ranting. But you and she are both proving my point about how willing antichoicers are to lie.

TR's hyperventilating again.

Janet, I followed that entire exchange and I have to say YOU gave TR far more credibility than she deserved by even participating in trying to make sense out of her ravings.

Milehimama: I hope you make the same argument for guns, because if you don't you're a hypocrite.

Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 22, 2008 1:17 PM
****************
Maw, youre a liar. I asked her to back up what she said. Thats hardly ranting. But you and she are both proving my point about how willing antichoicers are to lie.

TR: Check out the 12:05 links. END OF STORY.

TR: Check out the links at 12:05 post on effects of porn, thanks to Jasper for finding it!

Posted by: Janet at April 23, 2008 12:07 AM
************
I asked for studies from secular sources published in credible journals to support your assertion that mental health care professionals would 'tell me' that pornography was destroying America and that these professionals "know" how much damage pornography did to our society, and thats all you can come up with? Are you poorly educated enough to think that constitutes any kind of 'proof'? Youve got two people giving their opinions and nothing more impressive than that. You made something up, you lied trying to cover your backside, and now youre trying to get away from the fact that you were caught lying by telling more lies.

TR: No lying going on here, dear.

TR: What's this obsession you have with LYING??

TR: I'm going now. Can I?

Anon, apparently you don't read so good. Sally is the one hurling insults at everyone she can with as much spite as she can muster. I am quite capable of having intellegent discourse with folks I do not agree with here (like Doug), folks who don't resort to insults and spite. It's not my problem if you and Sally cannot handle having me call a spade a spade...by the way, if you think the likes of you or Sally are capable of bruising my ego you need some ego deflation yourself!!

Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 22, 2008 7:17 PM
........................

Don't read so good? Obviously English isn't your first language.

TR: What's this obsession you have with LYING??

Posted by: Janet at April 23, 2008 12:32 AM
*************
You got caught lying. You didnt have the integrity to admit youd just made something up. You tried to cover your backside and it didnt work. You just told more lies to try to cover up. Then you got bent out of shape because you'd been caught lying. That's no ones fault but your own.

TR: Youve got two people giving their opinions and nothing more impressive than that. You made something up, you lied trying to cover your backside, and now youre trying to get away from the fact that you were caught lying by telling more lies.

Wait a sec., what two people do you mean? Lies, upon lies, I'm soooo confused!!!

TR: Check out the 12:05 links. END OF STORY.

Posted by: Janet at April 23, 2008 12:30 AM
****************
Whining 'end of story' proves my point. You lied. You made something up and got caught doing it. Those links dont even remotely come close to supporting your accusations. And they certainly dont come close to being what I asked for.

girls with guns - what a concept.

TR: Youve got two people giving their opinions and nothing more impressive than that. You made something up, you lied trying to cover your backside, and now youre trying to get away from the fact that you were caught lying by telling more lies.

Wait a sec., what two people do you mean? Lies, upon lies, I'm soooo confused!!!

Posted by: Janet at April 23, 2008 12:42 AM
*******************
Yes, you are very confused. That you imagine those links prove your point proves you are confused. You have two web pages with two people giving their opinion of pornography. You have a lot of assertions and assumptions but no backup.

You made the statement "Pornography is such a large problem in this country" and I called you on it - you replied (Call your favorite Psychologist/Psychiatrist, Counselor, Mental Health Worker....They will tell you what a growing problem pornography is in this country.)

Posted by: Janet at April 18, 2008 2:26 PM
****************
I asked you to back that up with studies from secular sources in credible publications recognized by the mental health community - not some priest you heard talking on the radio or something you heard someone else say somewhere sometime. Thats when you started tapdancing. And youre still tap dancing. You got caught lying. You just made something up, tried to pretend you were somehow knowledgable about the subject, and you got caught.

TR: Youve got two people giving their opinions and nothing more impressive than that. You made something up, you lied trying to cover your backside, and now youre trying to get away from the fact that you were caught lying by telling more lies.

Wait a sec., what two people do you mean? Lies, upon lies, I'm soooo confused!!!

Posted by: Janet at April 23, 2008 12:42 AM
*******************
Yes, you are very confused. That you imagine those links prove your point proves you are confused. You have two web pages with two people giving their opinion of pornography. You have a lot of assertions and assumptions but no backup.

You made the statement "Pornography is such a large problem in this country" and I called you on it - you replied (Call your favorite Psychologist/Psychiatrist, Counselor, Mental Health Worker....They will tell you what a growing problem pornography is in this country.)

Posted by: Janet at April 18, 2008 2:26 PM
****************
I asked you to back that up with studies from secular sources in credible publications recognized by the mental health community - not some priest you heard talking on the radio or something you heard someone else say somewhere sometime. Thats when you started tapdancing. And youre still tap dancing. You got caught lying. You just made something up, tried to pretend you were somehow knowledgable about the subject, and you got caught.

TR:

This has been so much fun, thanks for playing along with me!

I'll be busy for the next ten years, but after that I hope we can catch up.

Wait a sec., what two people do you mean? Lies, upon lies, I'm soooo confused!!!

Posted by: Janet at April 23, 2008 12:42 AM
************
I take that back. Its only one person. Donna Rice Hughes is behind both of those web pages.

TR:1:12: NO KIDDING! Hmmmmm, A lie???????

TR:

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that pornography is destructive. No proof is needed as this is common sense. So get off the professor box please you fake.

If you were truly a legitimate counselor you would know by the cries of your client wives that discovered that their husbands were using pornography at how devastating this is to a relationship. Besides, real counselors don't stay up this late posting. If you can't sleep, why don't you just go clean your house instead of wasting people's time.

TR and I wouldn't want to get within a ten mile readius of where you habitate as your life is a ticking time bomb ready to implode on itself.

Janet:

Don't waste your time on TR. She is a verbally sadistic person who gets some sort of perverse pleasure in screwing with people. I say we should all ignore her as we enable her sick behavior.

tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap!

:) I've always wanted to learn to do that!!!

Hisman, I'm still praying for you and your family, and thanks!

What 'real truth'? That over 60% of abortions are performed by 8 weeks? that over 90% of abortions are performed in the first trimester? that between 96 and 97% of abortions are performed by RU486 or suction curettage? That there are fewer than 500 third trimester abortions in the US per year and the reasons for those are atypical? Which 'real truth' do you think other people 'cant handle'?
Posted by: TexasRed at April 22, 2008 12:31 PM

If I take your data then since Roe V Wade that means 1.6 million post eight week abortions in the US alone. Sickening. And "atypical" doesn't even begin to excuse the barbaric practice of third trimester abortions.

The rest of the truth, Red, is trying to give love to the babies that someone else just discarded and left for dead. Could you handle that Red?

Donna Rice Hughes?

Let's see...
Apparently she thinks that boinking married men, ruining careers and busting up families is OK, but looking at pornography is BAD!

It kinds of reminds me of "Dr." Laura Schlessinger. If you Google her you can find all of her advice about family values and a foundation built on traditional Christian values, or you can just look up her nudie pics. (Warning; if you go for the nudie pics, bring a machete.)

Someone asked me to post the testimony I gave before Obama in committee. I testified 3x (although he refused to let me speak when he was chair of Health & Human Services in 2003).

Here's the 1st:

Testimony of Jill L. Stanek, RN
IL Senate Judiciary Committee
March 27, 2001

I am a Registered Nurse who has worked in the Labor & Delivery Department at Christ Hospital in Oak Lawn, Illinois, for the past 5-1/2 years. Christ Hospital performs abortions during the second and even third trimesters of pregnancy.

The abortion method being called into question that Christ Hospital and other IL hospitals practice is called �induced labor abortion.� This abortion technique sometimes results in infants being aborted alive. In the event that an infant is aborted alive at Christ Hospital, she or he is given no medical assessments or care whatsoever but is left to die.

The induced labor abortion procedure can be performed using a couple different medications, but the goal always is to cause a pregnant woman�s cervix to open so that she will deliver a premature baby who dies during the birth process or soon afterward. At Christ Hospital the physician inserts a medication called Cytotec into the mother�s birth canal next to the cervix. The cervix is the opening at the bottom of the uterus that normally stays closed until a mother is about 40 weeks pregnant and ready to deliver. But Cytotec irritates the cervix and stimulates it to open early. When this happens, the pre-term baby drops out of the uterus, sometimes alive.

In the event that a baby is aborted alive at Christ Hospital, he or she is not given any medical care but is rather given what my hospital calls �comfort care.� �Comfort care� is defined as keeping the baby warm in a blanket until the baby dies, although until recently even this was not always done. The baby is then offered to the parents to hold until she or he dies. If the parents do not want to hold their dying aborted baby, as is most often the case, it is left to nursing staff or support staff on the floor to hold the baby until she or he dies. And until this past December, when staff did not have time or the desire to hold the baby, the baby was taken to our Soiled Utility Room and left there alone to die. Christ Hospital�s comfort care policy, #WHS492, only requires that live aborted babies be checked for signs of life once an hour, or �as needed in order to verify time of death.�

It is not uncommon for a live aborted babies to linger for an hour or two or even longer. At Christ Hospital one of these babies once lived for almost an entire eight-hour shift. Last year alone, of the 13 babies that I am aware of who were aborted at Christ Hospital, at least four lived between 1-1/2 to 3 hours, two boys and two girls. Christ Hospital says that it compassionately aborts babies with very serious mental or physical handicaps. But Christ Hospital will also abort for life or health of the mother. And so at least two of the second-trimester babies who were aborted last year, for instance, were completely healthy.

One night, a nursing co-worker was taking an aborted Down�s Syndrome baby who was born alive to our Soiled Utility Room because his parents did not want to hold him, and she did not have time to hold him. I could not bear the thought of this suffering child dying alone in a Soiled Utility Room, so I cradled and rocked him for the 45 minutes that he lived. He was 21 to 22 weeks old, weighed about � pound, and was about 10 inches long. He was too weak to move very much,
expending any energy he had trying to breathe. Toward the end he was so quiet that I couldn�t tell if he was still alive unless I held him up to the light to see if his heart was still beating through his chest wall. After he was pronounced dead, we folded his little arms across his chest, wrapped him in a tiny shroud, and carried him to the hospital morgue where all of our dead patients are taken.

Other co-workers have told me about incidences of live aborted babies whom they have cared for. A Support Associate told me about a live aborted baby who was left to die on the counter of the Soiled Utility Room wrapped in a disposable towel. This baby was accidentally thrown into the garbage, and when they later were going through the trash to find the baby, the baby fell out of the towel and on to the floor. A nursing coworker told me about an incident she was involved in last spring that she said �I just can�t stop thinking about.� She participated in the abortion of a healthy 23-1/7 week baby who was given no medical assessments or care after delivery but was allowed to languish for 2-1/2 hours until she died, even though she showed early signs of thriving. Just three weeks after this baby was aborted, another mother came to the hospital under similar circumstances, carrying an identically aged baby, and she was offered the same options. But she said that she wanted her baby. And so present at her delivery � because Christ Hospital is a Level III mother/baby care hospital - was a neonatologist, a pediatric resident, a pediatric nurse, and a respiratory therapist � all assigned specifically to take care of that little girl at delivery. And for the two days that I tracked her, that little girl lived. Christ Hospital is one of only 11 hospitals that the State of IL has designated as a Level III perinatal institution - its highest ranking - which means that Christ Hospital is considered to have both the best equipment and the most highly trained medical personnel care for the sickest of the sick mothers and babies.

Another nurse friend told me about the patient she was caring for who had chosen to abort her second trimester baby, having been told that the boy had gross internal and external fetal anomalies.

When her baby was aborted alive, however, he looked fine. The mother became hysterical and screamed for someone to help her baby. A neonatologist was called over but told them family that the baby had been born too early to help. The mother was so traumatized that she had to be tranquilized, and it was left to the grandparents to hold the little baby boy the � hour that he lived.

Last July, I was asked to testify before the U. S. House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution regarding the babies I knew about who were aborted alive and left to die at Christ Hospital. Another nurse who worked at the hospital but who has since moved to Virginia, Allison Baker, also agreed to testify. Allison described walking into the Soiled Utility Room on two separate occasions to find babies left naked on a scale and the metal counter. She told about the patient that she herself had who didn�t know that her aborted baby might be born alive, and after he was taken to the Soiled Utility Room she kept asking, �Is he dead yet? Is he dead yet?�

Allison and I were called to testify in Washington in regard to a bill called the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. This bill simply clarifies an apparently confusing tenet - that any baby born alive, completely separated from his or her mother, whether through abortion or not, has the same rights as American citizen human beings that you and I have. This would include the right to medical assessments and care and not just �comfort care� when a baby is not wanted.

The Born Alive Infants Protection Act flew through the Judiciary Subcommittee, which had some well-known pro-choice congresspersons on it such as Jerry Nadler and Maxine Waters. It then passed in the House by a large vote of 380-15. Almost everyone on both sides of the abortion debate clearly saw that what was being discussed was infanticide. It was still confounding that 15 Congresspersons could vote against this bill in favor of infanticide, but they did. World Magazine listed these people and called them �the Fanatical Fifteen.� The congressional session did end before this bill could be introduced in the Senate last autumn and will stands to be reintroduced in the House very soon.

Meanwhile, here in IL, life and death go on. Four months ago Christ Hospital unveiled its �Comfort Room.� So now I can no longer say that live aborted babies are left in our Soiled Utility Room to die. We now have this prettily wallpapered room complete with a First Foto machine, baptismal gowns, a footprinter, and baby bracelets, so that we can offer keepsakes to parents of their aborted babies. There is even a nice wooden rocker in the room to rock live aborted babies to death.

It is wrong that current IL law mandates a doctor to pronounce a born-alive aborted baby dead but does not mandate the doctor to assess that baby for life and chances of survival. It is wrong that IL law mandates both birth and death certificates be issued � admitting that these aborted babies are indeed human � but does give these babies any rights whatsoever to medical care. No other children in IL or America are treated this way. It is just not right that a baby should be left to die simply because her mother does not want her. It is not right that the very doctors who may be miscalculating due dates and fetal birth weights or misdiagnosing fetal handicaps are the same ones deciding that these babies should not be assessed after delivery. They�re being allowed to destroy the very evidence that might make them liable for lawsuits if they have been wrong.

What is the difference between a teen-age girl at her prom putting her unwanted baby in the garbage to die and the medical staff at a hospital putting an unwanted baby in a Comfort Room to die? There is no difference.

little miss snotty nose.

Poo poo head?

we all know nobody ever gets shot in Washington DC

Hooves, does anybody ever not get shot in Washington D.C.?

tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap! tap!

:) I've always wanted to learn to do that!!!

Janet, sounds tailor-made for the "hunt and peck" method.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that pornography is destructive. No proof is needed as this is common sense. So get off the professor box please you fake."

My Dad once looked at porno when he was young and he turned out fine.

Your dad may not be ADDICTED to porn, Jess. Thank the Lord if he isn't.

PIP 10:30PM

Good points.

"Your dad may not be ADDICTED to porn, Jess. Thank the Lord if he isn't."

Amen. BIG difference. Porn addiction, I believe, is analogous to drug or alcohol addiction.

Jasper, Janet - that link was NOT a reputable source. It was a website - not a journal article.

Let me see a study, a journal article - not someone's webpage, that links (through research, not antedcote and opinion) child molestation to consenting adults viewing pornography.

Thanks.

Laura 2:38am

What I can never understand is why people are stupid enough to have their pictures taken in these, um, circumstances as well as making sex videos. Then they're aghast this stuff ends up in the wrong hands, on the internet, or in some magazine.
I think one of the funniest stories I heard was years ago when you had to take film to the store to be developed. The local police chief very stupidly took some sex films of him and his wife to be developed. Not surprisingly they ended up all over town. I mean, dahhhhhhh. At least have sense enough to go out of town somewhere to develop the film and please keep in mind the clerks are not blind!

Bobby B 9:52am

You are right about the comparison. Addiction of ANY kind can have a very devastating impact on people's lives, whether its porno, drug, alcohol, food, or gambling, to name just a few.

Porn addiction, I believe, is analogous to drug or alcohol addiction.

Bobby, should we throw professional wrasslin' in there too? [wink]

Maybe a balanced approach, WWF on the TV, a skin mag on the coffee table, a controlled amount of controlled substances, and only six beers...?

The local police chief very stupidly took some sex films of him and his wife to be developed.

Mary, ha! Gotta love it....
......

At least have sense enough to go out of town somewhere to develop the film and please keep in mind the clerks are not blind!

I don't know....Hooves went blind after just seeing some duct tape over a guy's butt.

Jill,
What goes through a person's head when they are not moved by your testimony? What?

I was just thinking that Carder!

"Bobby, should we throw professional wrasslin' in there too? [wink]"

Yeah why not? I know my brother fits that category.

Doug 10:17am

Hooves' blindness was definitely a defense mechanism at work.

Mary, so I guess what they say is true, then?

"Size matters."

"Your dad may not be ADDICTED to porn, Jess. Thank the Lord if he isn't."

Ugh he isn't. But then again I don't follow him around 24/7. It was on of those old 70's National Lampoon magazines I found in his car. I confronted my parents with it and my Dad said it was a collectors item and my Mom said I was a prude.

No my parents are the romantic sort that still hold hands when they walk down the street.

Jess, there's a "National Lampoon 1964 High School Yearbook" which is a hilarious parody.

It's still around, like the "39th anniversary reunion edition" of it.

Amanda:9:54: Jasper, Janet - that link was NOT a reputable source. It was a website - not a journal article.

Let me see a study, a journal article - not someone's webpage, that links (through research, not antedcote and opinion) child molestation to consenting adults viewing pornography. Thanks.

Please, it seems everyone is an expert these days. Amazing. Did you check the end of the article for the citations? Not good enough?

"my Mom said I was a prude"

Really? How old were you? That seems an unusual thing for a mother to say to her daughter!

It was just this summer. I know right? And I'm the Godless pro-choicer of the family : )

Have a feeling Jess that your family is praying hard for you!!

Doug 11:32am

You old dog, I ain't goin' there.

@Janet: Lol, my mom says the same thing to me, and I'm 20! I still look away or make faces when my parents kiss eachother in front of us chitlins (even though we're 20, 18 and 13). My mom keeps telling me I should wear more...revealing (but not skanky...all about the class!) clothes to attract a boyfriend and future husband so she can get some grandkids.

@Rae, let's dress like whores to attract husbands!

Rae,

That's too funny. It's very sweet that they are affectionate in front of you, but don't listen to her. (Did I say that?) My Mom never pressured me to marry young, thank God. Her advice was to wait!

Jess,
This summer?, I won't even ask why. (Don't need to know:)Lol.

@Janet: Lol, my mom was already engaged at my age and she got hitched at 21 and is still married to the same guy (my vati, obviously).

I think it's also possible that the reason she wants grandkids so bad is because she only had 3 kids when she wanted more than that (but it wasn't meant to be...).

Rae:

There was a lady from church when I was growing up who took in foster children - newborns. She'd have them for only a week or two and cared for them until they were adopted out. Every week at church she was holding a new baby. (It must have been so hard to "let go", and exhausting too!) I always admired her for that.

Thanks for posting that Jill. Obama is a weasel
and they really need to take the crucifix off the side of that hospital and change the name.
It sickens me to no end that the hospital is called "Christ" hospital.

"I think it's also possible that the reason she wants grandkids so bad is because she only had 3 kids when she wanted more than that (but it wasn't meant to be...)."

Considering they didn't even want me my parents can wait for grandkids : )

It sickens me to no end that the hospital is called "Christ" hospital.

Posted by: truthseeker at April 23, 2008 11:17 PM

Me too. The irony. As Pope Benedict's message said, Christ is our Hope! Miracles do happen. Let's keep praying! +-

Jess, God bless you!

As Pope Benedict's message said, Christ is our Hope!

As opposed to Obama, who hopefully will be our hope if can hopefully change. Because Yes! We Can!

Did anyone else notice he ripped off the slogan from Bob the Builder... Can we Do It? Yes, We Can!

As Pope Benedict's message said, Christ is our Hope!

As opposed to Obama, who hopefully will be our hope if can hopefully change. Because Yes! We Can!

Did anyone else notice he ripped off the slogan from Bob the Builder... Can we Do It? Yes, We Can!

Milehimama,

Sorry, but it's too early for sarcasm. I don't know what to make of your post.

I'm saying Christ is our Hope for ending abortion at Christ Hospital (Oak Lawn, IL.) Let's pray for an end to abortion.

Milehimama: Thanks for reminding me about the bob the builder theme song. I am going to be stuck on that all day. I used to work at a toy store and they played that ALL the time.

Obobba the Builder.

to Sally, and anyone legitimately concerned:

Not that it's any of your business, but for the record, I am currently working two jobs and considering a third, so I'm not particularly concerned about people supporting me on the dole. But that's a fact, so I wouldn't expect you to be familiar with it.

"Gee! How many people have you proposed the concept of getting sucked out of a woman's uterous, to? Did they tell you to take your meds?"

I've never met a pro-abort who would care to be dismembered, or pickled alive, with or without anesthesia. Any intelligent person would have grasped that I was thinking of the particulars of surgical induced abortion, not it's location in utero. Sounds like you'd best focus on your own crying medical needs.

Here's your bait and switch: a Jew in Nazi Germany who was told to strip naked for a refreshing, de-lousing shower and gassed to death instead was the victim of a bait and switch; being led to expect something entirely different from what is actually planned. Many women have been likewise misled to believe that abortion does not kill an innocent human being, that it is safe, that it is not excruciatingly painful (LIKE YOU CARE), etc., ad nauseam, in order to further a sick and invalid social agenda. You can read some of their stories here:
http://www.lifedynamics.com/Pro-life_Group/Pro-choice_Women/...if you care.

"Not getting out much or not listening to your elders isn't a good excuse for your foolishness"

The statement that anyone born in America since Roe could have been legally slaughtered before birth is not foolishness, but fact; you don't even know my age, or how much I do or don't get out; what is your excuse for your own folly? Bigotry? Oh,say it isn't so!!!...but first, give us a reason to believe you. The aversion to facts you've expressed here and elsewhere isn't terribly trust-making, dearie.

So murder is not abuse? Only if the murderee give full and informed consent to be murdered.
Most normal people have survival instincts, and there is no reason to believe that the unborn don't have these, too. Civilized, fair-minded, compassionate, sane people (the kind who should be making social policy) simply don't view murder as proper treatment of one's fellow humans, especially those weaker or disadvantaged in some way; the decent thing to do is use one's advantages to help them, not to exploit or destroy them. Improper treatment = abuse. Both are destructive, in case your own logic is too lacking to make that simplest of connections.

"Do you fancy yourself the judge of imperatives?" Not to the extent that you falsely fancy yourself my judge. God is my judge; you are not qualified. Some needs and imperatives are evident; preserving innocent human life is one of them to anyone who is not a murderer/murderess.

"Attributing impossible attributes to that which is incapable doesn't make your circular argument work."

Hold that thought until you are arbitrarily deemed "not fully human", and some post-human monster who wants you killed for convenience conveniently interprets your resistance as mere gas, or involuntary reflexes, etc.

"Death would ruin the abusive's jollies now wouldn't it." I wouldn't know firsthand; but I expect that the main concern of an abuser whose victim dies from the abuse is covering his/her backside legally. That was the main point of Roe v. Wade. Sometimes beatings, stabbings, etc. are intended to kill people, and often the people who commit those abused expect that to happen...at least in the real world, not Sally-land.

"In your remarkably foolish opinion of course."

Your own remarks are hardly remarkable for their brilliance. A shame; a little fact-finding, and giving your innocent preborn neighbors at least the benefit of the doubt, could have prevented that.

Excellent post Pat.
Dehumanizing human life, before you murder that human life is a virtue for those that murder innocent human life.

Wrong, yllas. The unborn in this argument are just as human as you & me. It's not the issue.