Breaking news: Another MI abortionist trashes babies in dumpster

Thumbnail image for breaking.jpgI think I've been away from the OR too long, because the video I just watched of what pro-lifers retrieved from the dumpster at the Women's Advisory Center abortion mill in Livonia, MI, made me queasy....

Monica Miller warned me the video was NC-17 rated. Seeing baby skulls and body parts and so much blood in the same trash as McDonald's and Olive Garden wrappers just got to me.

Citizens for a Pro-Life Society has posted this story on its website but hasn't yet released it to the press.

In April MI pro-lifers returned to search dumpsters at Alberto Hodari's infamous abortion mills to see if he had relapsed and begun throwing babies he had aborted into the trash (which he had not).

They thought while they were at it they'd check the dumpster at WAC and came up with a mother un-lode of aborted babies, many medical records, urine cups with names on them, unused syringes, sharps, and blood everywhere.

WAC is owned by abortionist Reginald Sharpe. He bought it from abortionist Rodolfo Finkelstein (recipient of my first annual abortionist of the year award) in 2005 before Finkelstein fled the country after being convicted of sexual assault of several patients.

In fact, Finkelstein started a late-term laminaria abortion on a mother the day before he fled in March 2005, leaving it for Sharpe to finish. That day Sharpe left the mill while the mother was laboring, and she screamed so loudly her mother in the waiting room called 911. Paramedics arrived and found she had just delivered a 28-week dead baby but was in acute medical trouble, so they rushed her by ambulance to the hospital.

sharpe 1.jpgFor that WAC job Sharpe was alerted on April 3, 2005, that his license was being suspended for 9 months for committing illegal late-term abortions. 2 days later his clinic burned down for unknown reasons. His license was restored in August 2006, just in time to begin aborting in a new building. Sharpe owns 3 mills.

The MI Department of Environmental Quality conducted its own search of Sharpe's dumpster after pro-lifers alerted it and confirmed finding what they found. But like it did Hodari, DEQ has merely given Sharpe a warning, "less than a slap on the hand," said Monica. "They're basically saying, 'Don't do it again, and we'll be back on this date to check you.'"

Read more details and see more photos at the CPS website.

[HT: Milissa at Catholic Pro-Life Committee; thanks for background info to stalwart pro-lifer Lynn Mills, who has tracked WAC since 1983]


Comments:

Words escape me.

I'm not sure I'm going to read any comments on this post. If I have to hear TR talk about this all being lies, or that we have violated womens privacy or that this is insensate, nonviable tissue, I don't think I will be responsible for my actions. I think I know what John L feels like now.

Posted by: mk at May 7, 2008 4:41 PM


The thing that really baffles me..other than the gruesomeness of the whole thing..

Is that women ACTUALLY trust these facilities to do "surgical procedures" when they are CLEARLY incompetent when it comes to even doing the simplest of tasks..i.e. disposing of this "medical waste."

Posted by: Elizabeth at May 7, 2008 4:44 PM


Did you watch it, MK? I'm terrified to...

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at May 7, 2008 4:45 PM


I did Bobby. I personally feel that seeing it keeps the fire burning, if you know what I mean. It's easy to become desensitized, and this reminds me of why I'm here. Plus it gives me a chance to grieve these little ones and share their horror. No one should have to go through that alone.

It's hard, but I make myself. If they can be aborted, I can stand next to them. I can't imagine what those "heroes" that saved them from the garbage heap must have felt like. These people know they are risking jail time. Watching the video also aligns me with them. It's the least I can do.

Like Lauras picture (with the vulture just waiting for that little one to die), pictures like this keep me from growing complacent or flippant. And I can share the suffering and offer it up for the degenerates that do this for a living...

Posted by: mk at May 7, 2008 4:52 PM


As Father Frank Pavone, founder of Priests for Life, has said, "America won't ban abortion until America SEES abortion."

How can they not charge this man with a crime? These are human body parts, tiny little babies destroyed before birth. This is MURDER.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at May 7, 2008 5:08 PM


Well.

Skull tissue. Toes. Eyeballls.

Proud of yourselves, PC?

Posted by: carder at May 7, 2008 5:19 PM


And nestled snugly with McDonald's and Olive Garden waste.

God help us.

Posted by: carder at May 7, 2008 5:20 PM


Disgusting, perverted, deranged monsters....

Posted by: Bethany at May 7, 2008 5:31 PM


So obviously these must be later-term abortions, but we should keep in mind that this is no more heinous than abortion during ANY stage of pregnancy. These videos provide images of the dead babies who "look like" what we normally think of as babies, but an embryo and even zygote are just as much babies as these are (I should say human beings to be more precise). This makes the horror of abortion clearer, but ANY abortion is just as deplorable. Killing an innocent person during any stage of life is unacceptable.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at May 7, 2008 5:34 PM


Absolutely agreed, Bobby!

Posted by: Bethany at May 7, 2008 5:36 PM


This makes me so sad. Poor babies.

Posted by: Mary at May 7, 2008 5:44 PM


This is pro-choice violence.

Posted by: Cranky Catholic at May 7, 2008 5:48 PM


I'm not watching this video. I've had enough of dismembered babies to last me a lifetime.
My guess is that nothing will be done however.

Posted by: Patricia at May 7, 2008 6:08 PM


I thought one sloppy abortionist was enough.

Now two?

Posted by: carder at May 7, 2008 6:43 PM


I really think these clinics should upgrade their level of practice and care. I imagine Planned Parenthood is thriving because these for-profit clinics are not doing a professional job.

Posted by: Hal at May 7, 2008 8:01 PM


Speechless. Just speechless.

Posted by: TS at May 7, 2008 8:02 PM


I'm an EMT and we would NEVER dream of dumping the medical waste into the same trash as the food trash and then putting it all into the dumpster.

When I clean up the ambulance after a run, anything that either does, or probably does, have body fluid on it goes in a biohazard bag.

Posted by: Christina at May 7, 2008 8:03 PM


Christina,
I was thinking the same thing. What if a hospital was caught throwing out gall bladders, kidneys, amputated limbs etc... in a dumpster behind the hospital where the cafeteria waste was thrown.
What do you think the outrage level would be then? I bet the MSM would be all over that in a nano second.

I bet the governing forces over hospitals would be there in 2 nano seconds.

Those poor little souls. How can anyone think this is acceptable. We need to do all we can to win the legal war. These pictures will sure help to win the moral war.

Posted by: Sandy at May 7, 2008 8:11 PM


I just watched it. Lord, have mercy. I am so sorry sweet babies. So sorry.

Posted by: Carla at May 7, 2008 8:11 PM


Hal,

While I understand your point, do your realize how cold that sounds? After seeing this, your response was "Well that's not how professional's dump the bodies!" Think about that....please.

Posted by: mk at May 7, 2008 9:00 PM


My twelve year old son walked up behind me while I was watching this horrific video and he has a few questions for the bloggers on this site:

1. Why don't they just adopt?

2. How do they kill these children?

3. Why do they think it's right?

And he said this:. "It's horrible".

I asked him what he's going to do about this and he said, "Stand up for what's right."

I asked him, "do think this is wrong and why", he said, "definitely because it's like killing yourself."

I asked "why", he said, "becasue you were a baby once."

Out of the mouth of babes.......and a future Pastor who I pray will be a lion against this outrage.

Posted by: HisMan at May 7, 2008 9:06 PM


Hisman,

Jesus was twelve when His parents found Him preaching in the temple. Give your son a high five for me...

Posted by: mk at May 7, 2008 9:09 PM


Hisman's 12 yr old son can understand and articulate what 2 candidates running for President of the United States cannot.

Posted by: Jasper at May 7, 2008 9:22 PM


"Out of the mouth of babes.......and a future Pastor who I pray will be a lion against this outrage."

Maybe he won't need to be a lion against this outrage because it won't be around by the time he's old enough?

Posted by: Rae at May 7, 2008 9:37 PM


Rae:

We can only hope.......

Posted by: HisMan at May 7, 2008 10:22 PM


:(

How can anyone justify this carnage?

Posted by: Kel at May 8, 2008 1:12 AM


Silence and avoidance. Defense in the abstract and avoidance of the evidence. There's nothing about that foot that's an opinion or is non-factual.

What did Naomi Wolf say - "when they hold up the remains and pair of forceps we lose."?

What's the difference between watching this and overhearing the truth about Tuskagee while that was happening?

TR jumped in with a whole string of violence against abortionists - hard to look at a foot that size and call it an insensate blob of tissue.
What's the difference, other than the possibility of self-defense?

How can she expect others to be compassionate to her without having compassion on these so small? Where is her sensitivity and humanity?

Violence only begets violence.

It's not a question of what's legal - it's a question of what's right or wrong.

Is this right?

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at May 8, 2008 7:55 AM


This is what's amusing, somewhat:

Whenever Jill has posted some really heavy duty, in-your-face, graphic photos/videos of actual abortions, it takes awhile for prochoice to speak up.

As of my posting, Hal has been the only PC to comment, and even then he showed zero compassion for the eyeballs out of their sockets.

I don't know...I have my theories as to why they're slow to join the conversation, but I'll hold my peace and let them speak. That is, if they can defend this one.

Posted by: carder at May 8, 2008 8:36 AM


There's nothing about that foot that's an opinion or non-factual.

Thank you, Chris. Well put.

Posted by: Carla at May 8, 2008 8:55 AM


Do any of you live in MI? Do you know if they have more lax laws or at least enforcement regarding disposal? I know that the HIPAA laws are nationwide, but I'm sure the enforcement varies from state to state. With so many hospitals in Mass, it's VERY strict here...but I wonder about other places when I see stuff like this.

I don't know of any PP that will perform an abortion after 20 weeks or so, and it seems like all of the problems are coming from private clinics regardless. If nothing else, these late term abortions should be limited to hospital settings.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 8, 2008 9:16 AM


Ooops - that was me.

Posted by: Amanda at May 8, 2008 9:24 AM


Anon,

Limited to hospitals? How about "not exist at all." The fact that these even take place...!

Posted by: carer at May 8, 2008 9:27 AM


I thought late term abortions were so "rare" if they are so "rare" why were there a half dozen found in one dumpster over a few days, from one clinic???

In my state it is law that aborted babies must be cremated or (incinerated)

Posted by: Sandy at May 8, 2008 9:34 AM


Well, when a woman is having an abortion that late in pregnancy, its usually not just because she randomly changed her mind. Usually something is wrong - either with her or with the fetus. All I'm saying is, if its going to happen that late, it should be happening in a hospital, not an outpatient clinic setting. That way, its not only safer for her, the laws about privacy and disposal are enforced much more strictly, and if the fetus is viable, she could atleast be offered a C section, rather than have abortion be the only option.

Posted by: Amanda at May 8, 2008 9:42 AM


Kel asked, "How can anyone justify this carnage?"

And here's your answer:

"Well, when a woman is having an abortion that late in pregnancy, its usually not just because she randomly changed her mind. Usually something is wrong - either with her or with the fetus"


Carnage justified?

Posted by: carder at May 8, 2008 10:30 AM


Uhhh... not quite, considering the part of my post you left out was the part where I said that this could be AVOIDED by eliminating these private outpatient clinics...

Posted by: Amanda at May 8, 2008 10:43 AM


The fetal remains were of 16 to 20 wks gestation approx. We haven't arrived to the point where those little ones could survive early c-sections. As such, they go out with the trash.

You're right, if viability could be possible, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We're discussing the video footage, not late-term abortion in general.

If I understand Kel correctly, he/she was referring to the feet held up to the camera and the cranial cartilage and the rest of the fetal anatomy. Justification.

It would be interesting, though, since patient records were found, to find out what was "wrong" with the moms and babies that warranted that treatment.

Posted by: carder at May 8, 2008 11:22 AM


Let's not dismiss how many even LATER term abortions this hell-hole probably commits. They probably don't have the nerve to dump the "waste" from them in the trash...but God knows where the remains end up....

Unfortunately, I doubt this is an isolated incident. There are probably remains like these that can be found in abortion clinic dumpsters across the country.

I agree: WHERE are the PCers now ??? How do they justify this bloodshed? No doubt we won't hear word one from them.

Human life snuffed out and discarded with fast food bags.

This sickens me to my core and is a sad commentary on what we value (or rather, DON'T value ) as a civilized nation. My heart aches for these innocent souls.

God have Mercy on us.

Posted by: Mike at May 8, 2008 11:34 AM


Did you mean Michigan? You posted about Wisconsin.

Posted by: carder at May 8, 2008 11:34 AM


Ok, TR, I follow you.

Which is why I mused as to what the trashed patient records would reveal vs what Amanda proposed (something wrong with mom/fetus) vs your post ( Thats not really 'late term' abortions).

Posted by: carder at May 8, 2008 11:49 AM


If I have to hear TR talk about this all being lies, or that we have violated womens privacy or that this is insensate, nonviable tissue,


Why do you have to lie?
Posted by: TexasRed at May 8, 2008 11:21 AM

Or by then people will have come to terms with the fact that a womans decision to end or continue her pregnancy is none of your business.
Posted by: TexasRed at May 8, 2008 11:34 AM

Okay, that's two out of three...c'mon TR, don't disappoint me...let's hear the one about insensate, nonviable tissue...make it three outs and call the inning!

Posted by: mk at May 8, 2008 12:13 PM


TR,

You said I was lying about YOU, when I could easily prove that you consistently call us liars when we post things like this video. Do you really want to pull up all of the posts where you've called us liars? And to refute my statement, you what? You call me a liar.

And then you state that it is violating a womans right to privacy when we say that abortion is wrong.

I don't need to defend my statements, you've proved them.

I didn't lie. I don't lie. And I don't kill unborn children, nor do I condone it. Thou shalt no kill is also one of the ten commandments. I refuse to get into an inane argument with you about whether or not the unborn are included in that commandment. This is not a post that I will desecrate with pointless insult swapping.

I just found it entertaining that you are so totally predictable.

Probably should have let it go...but hey, I'm human.

Posted by: mk at May 8, 2008 12:35 PM


Don't feed the TRoll

Posted by: Carla at May 8, 2008 12:38 PM


Carla,

You're right. And I've just lost it on a couple of other threads. I guess today is my day to be fed up with her. I'll shut up now. It's not like I'm saying anything new...

Posted by: mk at May 8, 2008 12:44 PM


It's ok MK. I do the same thing.
I just wanted to let you know that what you said at the top of the post was beautiful. Really. :)

Posted by: Carla at May 8, 2008 12:50 PM


Amanda, in the years following Roe V. Wade, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women in the United States who came to clinics to have abortions. Of the 1,900 questioned, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a list of reasons why they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. The results were as follows:[3]

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

Source:
Torres, Aida and Forrest, Jacqueline Darroch. (1988). Why Do Women Have Abortions. Family Planning Perpectives, 20 (4), 169-176. Retrieved April 19, 2007 as cited in Wikipedia: Late-term Abortion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-term_abortion

Here are two stories just in the month of February of this year, from two women who've underwent late-term abortions at 17 and 23 weeks respectively, for soscial reasons.

Maternal health and poor prenatal diagnosis are the minority of late-term abortions (16+ weeks) and a cloak pro-choicers hide behind to justify abortion on demand for any reason.

Posted by: Rachael at May 8, 2008 1:29 PM


Amanda, in the years following Roe V. Wade, the Alan Guttmacher Institute collected questionnaires from 1,900 women in the United States who came to clinics to have abortions. Of the 1,900 questioned, 420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks. These 420 women were asked to choose among a list of reasons why they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. The results were as follows:[3]

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other

Source:
Torres, Aida and Forrest, Jacqueline Darroch. (1988). Why Do Women Have Abortions. Family Planning Perpectives, 20 (4), 169-176. Retrieved April 19, 2007 as cited in Wikipedia: Late-term Abortion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-term_abortion

Posted by: Rachael at May 8, 2008 1:31 PM


Continued...

Here are two stories just in the month of February of this year, from two women who've underwent late-term abortions at 17 and 23 weeks respectively, for soscial reasons
http://community.livejournal.com/abortioninfo/455094.html
(second link in next post due to technical issues with posting)

Maternal health and poor prenatal diagnosis are the minority of late-term abortions (16+ weeks) and a cloak pro-choicers hide behind to justify abortion on demand for any reason.

Posted by: Rachael at May 8, 2008 1:33 PM


Sorry about that double post, been still having tech issues with posting

Posted by: Rachael at May 8, 2008 1:35 PM


Is that the best you can do to refute our arguments TR, plug your ears and yell "Liars!" Don't be a hypocrit, I caught you posting false information, glorifying the Hodari's Woman Care clinic in this thread: http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/05/hodaris_trashed.html#comments
and corrected you, yet you never replied, which is very telling.

Posted by: Rachael at May 8, 2008 1:45 PM


Hey Y'all,

Jill just posted a video of Eduardo from the Today Show interview this week. What a cutie!

Posted by: Janet at May 8, 2008 1:48 PM


Refresh my memory, TR. You said that you had some experience as a counselor or took counseling classes???

Posted by: carder at May 8, 2008 1:52 PM


Also, it's important to note, if I understand it correctly, the Doe v. Dolton ruling widely defines the terms, "life and health of the woman," allowing abortion at any time during pregnancy for the following reasons.

'...a woman has a constitutional right to abortion from six months to birth, if her doctor "in his best clinical judgment," in light of the patient's age, "physical, emotional, psychological [and] familial" circumstances, finds it "necessary for her physical or mental health." 'http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=410&invol=179

Which not only allows for abortions in the case where her life is physically endangered by continuing the pregnancy, but also allows for social reasons.

Posted by: Rachael at May 8, 2008 1:52 PM


"Well, when a woman is having an abortion that late in pregnancy, its usually not just because she randomly changed her mind. Usually something is wrong - either with her or with the fetus."

Rachael found a source to refute this, a source that bleeds pro-choice.

I'd be happy to read your source for your post.

Posted by: carder at May 8, 2008 1:58 PM


Doe V Bolton :)

Posted by: Carla at May 8, 2008 2:01 PM


uh, oh, I'd better correct that and should check the law page to ensure I didn't copy it incorrectly from them (although I imagine not(, thank you :-)

Posted by: Rachael at May 8, 2008 2:06 PM


Hey folks,

it's time for me to go .... have too much living yet to do ... this computer stuff and e-mail are at an end

sure do hope I've helped some very nervous people not to be so alone in their caring.

Jill, Bethany and MK - it sure has been great! As one friend used to say: don't keep the faith, spread it!

bye Doug, Carder, Janet, Leah, Bobby B, HisMan, Rae, PiP, Hal, etc ... will miss you all - even SoMG a little!

John

Posted by: John McDonell at May 8, 2008 3:57 PM


John McD:

Don't go! Who else can challenge us like you do? :) I'll miss you too! :( Thanks for everything! Come visit?

Posted by: Janet at May 8, 2008 4:29 PM


God love you, John! We'll see you again... I love the communion of Saints...

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at May 8, 2008 5:21 PM


WHAT THE HECK IS GOIN' ON AROUND HERE?????????


Laura gets banned.
John L leaves.
John McD leaves.

TR is still here.

What's wrong with this picture?!?!?!?


John McDonell, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!
I went to Mass this morning and prayed that today would go well on Jill's...and the whole time I was praying, I felt Him sayin' "Sorry, no can do"...and now this!

WHY JOHN, WHY????

Posted by: mk at May 8, 2008 5:59 PM


I do not miss John L one bit. He was just blatantly mean and bitter.

I consider him TRs PL equivalent.

Posted by: Erin at May 8, 2008 6:15 PM


Guys I need some really BIG TIME prayers. My cousin, a sweet, sweet girl (she lived with us for awhile when she was a teenager) has 2 daughters, 12 and 9. She's been going to school to be a nurse and graduates next Saturday. Last October, (some of you may remember this)her husband had a stroke, after which blood clots were floating around and there was nothing they could do. We'd all but picked out the coffin for him. After a really strange miracle, (involving A LOT of nuns and Our Lady of Frachou) he was given a clean bill of health. A week ago he fainted, and the tests have just come back...he has Leukemia AND Bone Cancer...Joe is a really great guy. Has five brothers and they all play in a band...The Dooley Brothers. Some of you (from the Chicago Area) may have heard of them. They've been around forever.

Anywho, PLEASE, PLEASE, pray.

Posted by: mk at May 8, 2008 6:47 PM


Well, let's see, on the pro-choice side we have Laura and Texas Red. And I guess on the pro-life side, yllas and John L(?? I didn't know him very well). My point being, you get extremists on both sides and just mean and vindictive people in society in general, this blog is no exception.

Posted by: Rachael at May 8, 2008 6:50 PM


mk: I will pray for your cousin and her family.

Posted by: Janet at May 8, 2008 7:35 PM


Why is John McD leaving?

Who ticked him off?

Posted by: carder at May 8, 2008 7:51 PM


Thanks Janet,

Carder, I haven't got a clue...but he has broken my heart...I really hope that he will at the very least email me one last time...I feel like crying. He was my secret love...:(

Posted by: mk at May 8, 2008 8:00 PM


Hi MK,
Already said a prayer for your cousin's husband.
Can we do a Novena again? I loved participating the last time.

Goodbye to John M. I loved reading his posts and will miss the wisdom. :(

Posted by: Sandy at May 8, 2008 9:25 PM


TR:
Now hear this. Now hear this.

I have posted this story before, but will again because it is important.

Back in the late 90's when the PBA ban was being debated heavily, a reporter in the city I lived wanted to do an article to support PBA since she like all PCers stated that late term abortion was a necessary procedure for women in a health crisis or for babies were diagnosed with fetal anomolies. she plunked herself in a clinic for several weeks to interview mothers choosing late term abortions. To her utter suprise, she discovered that the reasons women were choosing late term abortions were due to the top reasons on Rachels's post. There were no health risks to the mothers, there were no fetal anomolies.

Just women who "Oh, I don't know.....JUST PLAIN DIDN'T FEEL LIKE BEING PREGNANT ANYMORE WERE ABORTING!!!!!!!

She changed her position.


PS
Are you going to call the Gutenschlager report all lies???????

Posted by: Sandy at May 8, 2008 9:48 PM


"Why do YOU have to lie about ME, MK? I didnt say a thing about this story not being the truth, I didnt say a thing about this story being a violation of womens privacy. So why do you have to lie? Abortion is never condemned in the bible. Nothing in the scriptures gives any indication that abortion is a sin. But lying IS a sin and its condemned in one of the 10 Commandments. But you dont have any problem at all with lying. Why do you do it, MK? Why do you have to keep telling lies?

Posted by: TexasRed at May 8, 2008 12:21 PM"

The Bible is full of warnings about the shedding of innocent blood, about choosing life and not death. Based on the whole counsel of God it is actaully blaspemous to state that God approves of abortion.

You're starting to step over the edge TR making such false statements and I am going to rquest that you stop speaking such outrageous lies or be banned from this site. No one wants to hear your garbage, nor should we allow you to spew such filth, such pornographic and vile ideas as you proclaim, on a public site where there are impressionable souls that might actually think that what you are saying is actaully true.

I warn you in the name of Jesus to stop doing this.

Tell me this TR, do you practice Wiccan? My discerning spirit suggests you do but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

If you'd like to do a contextual Bible study on your assertion that the Bible does not prohibit abortion, here are a few passages to get you started:

Numbers 35:33 Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it.

Psalm 106:37-42 They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons. They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood. They defiled themselves by what they did; by their deeds they prostituted themselves. Therefore the LORD was angry with his people and abhorred his inheritance. He handed them over to the nations, and their foes ruled over them. Their enemies oppressed them and subjected them to their power.

2 Kings 24:2-4 The LORD sent Babylonian, Aramean, Moabite and Ammonite raiders against him. He sent them to destroy Judah, in accordance with the word of the LORD proclaimed by his servants the prophets. Surely these things happened to Judah according to the LORD's command, in order to remove them from his presence because of the sins of Manasseh and all he had done, including the shedding of innocent blood. For he had filled Jerusalem with innocent blood, and the LORD was not willing to forgive.

Proverbs 17:15 Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent the LORD detests them both.

Proverbs 24:24 Whoever says to the guilty, "You are innocent" peoples will curse him and nations denounce him.

Isaiah 59:7 Their feet rush into sin; they are swift to shed innocent blood. Their thoughts are evil thoughts; ruin and destruction mark their ways.

Jeremiah 22:3 This is what the LORD says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

Deuteronomy 19:10 Do this so that innocent blood will not be shed in your land, which the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance, and so that you will not be guilty of bloodshed.

Psalm 9:12 For he who avenges blood remembers; he does not ignore the cry of the afflicted.

Proverbs 6:16-17 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,

Jeremiah 22:17 But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain, on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion.

Genesis 9:5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.

Leviticus 24:17 If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death.

Jeremiah 19:4 For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent.

Jeremiah 1:5: Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.

Isaiah 49:15 Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you!

Deuteronomy 30:19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.


Posted by: HisMan at May 8, 2008 9:51 PM


@Sandy: That is really disturbing that women would do that. :(

Posted by: Rae at May 8, 2008 9:58 PM


Father, your word says that we should boldly approach the throne of grace, seeking mercy in time of need. Lord now is a time of great need Lord. And I boldly come before you as one of your children and I ask you Lord, in the name of your precious son Jesus to heal Joe. I ask you to ease his and his family's minds and give them peace, your peace that passes all understanding.

I ask you to give MK your strength as she seeks to comfort her loved ones. I ask you to give her wisdom. I ask you to active Proverbs 31 in her life and I also pray your mighty word of protection as expressed in Psalm 91 over that entire family.

Lord, we don't always understand things, but we trust you; for even though we are unfaithful, you are always faithful.

I place Joe in your everlasting arms and I ask you to comfort him as a father comforts his child.

And when you answer Lord, as I know you most certainly will, I ask that you receive all of the glory and honor and praise and thanksgiving, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.

Posted by: HisMan at May 8, 2008 10:07 PM


TR: You are just SO laughable with your completely INSANE ideas about the Bible, abortion, etc.

You are truly a disturbed individual.

Posted by: Mike at May 8, 2008 11:41 PM


Rachael, I've posted before about women having trouble getting money or to an abortion clinic, which is number 2 on that list.

Which begs the question ... if abortions were cheaper and clinics were widespread, would more women have abortions earlier in the pregnancy?

(Number one on the list demands better sex ed - particularly pregnancy symptoms; three and four are related to social conditions - if abortion was less controversial, would she have had an abortion earlier?)

Posted by: Edyt at May 9, 2008 12:13 AM


I am saddened and shocked like everyone else that John Mc D. has decided to leave. Let's keep him in our prayers.

The LORD bless you and keep you!
The LORD let his face shine upon you, and be gracious to you!
The LORD look upon you kindly and give you peace! Amen.

Posted by: Janet at May 9, 2008 12:31 AM


I am saddened and shocked like everyone else that John Mc D. has decided to leave. Let's keep him in our prayers.

The LORD bless you and keep you!
The LORD let his face shine upon you, and be gracious to you!
The LORD look upon you kindly and give you peace! Amen.

Posted by: Janet at May 9, 2008 12:31 AM


Hisman,

That was beautiful...I got a little weepy there. I copied that prayer and sent it on to my cousin. It will comfort her greatly, I know. Thank you.

Posted by: mk at May 9, 2008 6:12 AM


Edyt,
More widespread clinics would mean more women would be having abortions overall. I thought the idea was to reduce the need for abortion. I think human reproduction and contraception education are only one part of the resolution. What about once she's already pregnant? What about providing better alternatives which meet the woman's needs (eduational, employment, housing), so women don't have to feel abortion is the only viable choice, especially later in the pregnancy?

Lower abortion cost, more clinics widespread?

Where would the funding for such clinics come from, tax payers? It's not financially feasible to lower the abortion cost as there are staff paychecks, operating fees, medical equipment, etc to pay for and it's definatly profitable in the private clinic sector.

Also, there are currently not enough doctors to staff the existing abortion clinics for two major reasons: 1)Most reputable ob/gyns won't have anything to do with providing abortions (conscious being one of the largest reasons) and 2)Most of the providers of the Roe era are aging and retiring. They'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel for doctors and combined with the opportunity to run a low-cost clinic, what kind of doctors or clinic owners do you think this would attract?
Ones like this?

Rapin Osathanondh
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/02/breaking_news_k.html

Posted by: Rachael at May 9, 2008 7:46 AM


John McDonell, we are going to REALLY miss you. I hope you will come back every now and then!!

Posted by: Bethany at May 9, 2008 7:49 AM


Continued...

Bertha Bugarin
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/02/clinics_raided.html

Posted by: Rachael at May 9, 2008 7:51 AM


Continued...

Frantz Bazile
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2006/08/world_magazine.html

Posted by: Rachael at May 9, 2008 7:52 AM


Continued...


Krishna Rajanna
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2005/06/when_will_he_no.html

Just to name a few. PCers need to first focus on the cleaning up the currently existing clinics and abortion industry before talking about building more clinics.

Posted by: Rachael at May 9, 2008 7:53 AM


TR, all of your posts in this thread have been deleted. You are welcome to post when you are interested in debate and not insult fests.
I'm about tired of just ignoring insulting posts. From now on I'm cracking down on these. Everyone else who likes to troll around, take note.

Posted by: Bethany at May 9, 2008 7:57 AM


Bethany,

I'm about tired of just ignoring insulting posts.

THE CROWD ROARS!!!

Posted by: mk at May 9, 2008 8:17 AM


In defense of TR ( I can't believe I typed that), her vitriolic posts make us look good. REAL good.

But I agree. If she really did take classes in counseling, it's time she put them to use.

Posted by: carder at May 9, 2008 8:33 AM


Carder, usually that is the only reason I leave her posts up most of the time. It shows clearly what the abortion position is all about, without pulling any punches. I think she's been posting so much lately it's frustrating everyone, and I think it's about time she figured out a nicer way to behave, at least for now.

Marykay, (smile)

Posted by: Bethany at May 9, 2008 8:37 AM


Thank you, Bethany. :)

Posted by: Carla at May 9, 2008 8:46 AM


Now, seriously, Edyt,

All this got started because of footage of unborn fill-in-the-blank lying next to Happy Meals.


Hal thinks these clinics need upgrading.

Amanda suggests confining the kid-chopping to hospital settings.

TR foamed at the mouth and decried the "invasion of privacy". The woman's, that is.

You're suggesting more, cheaper clinics.


Not one PCer has expressed outrage over the limbs and cranial tissue. NOT ONE!

Why is that?

Posted by: carder at May 9, 2008 8:57 AM


HisMan at May 8, 2008 10:07 PM

Amen!

mk- been praying for Joe and his family. God is good, so when things like this happen, we need to discern His divine purposes, which may be to test our faith and prove it's worth. He is sovereign - and sufficient for every trial.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at May 9, 2008 9:29 AM


Well, Carder, I would suspect that it is hard to admit the atrocity of all that so they just detach and focus on the logistical/procedural part of it. If they admitted that seeing those little feet made them weep as it has many of us, they MIGHT actually have to admit that abortion is :gasp: a bad thing. That may make their pro-choice brains explode then.

(Hehe, okay that last line was more sarcastic but the rest of it I meant.)

Posted by: Elizabeth at May 9, 2008 9:33 AM


Carder,

I did. I wanted to know why it is that clinics can get away with disposal and HIPAA violations in MI, where in MA, there is no WAY a clinic could get away with it - an abortion clinic, a dialysis clinic, whatever.

If outpatient settings in a particular state are not being inspected well enough, I highly doubt thats just limited to abortion clinics. And the reason I mentioned eliminating private clinics is because hospitals are held to much higher standards in regards to privacy and sanitation.

As far as the specific body parts, abortion is legal. Whether your or I like it or not, there is nothing illegal about those medical remains, other than the means in which they were disposed of.

Posted by: Amanda at May 9, 2008 9:59 AM


Amanda, my question to you is, do you feel sad personally, when you see those little feet and limbs of tiny babies, being thrown away as though they were garbage? Does it hurt you inside?

Posted by: Bethany at May 9, 2008 10:06 AM


Amanda,

You're too smart to say something like that. Legal? Legal is now the definition of whether something makes you sick in your soul? If they were illegal, would you suddenly find those body parts horrifying?

The legality of the act has nothing whatsoever to do with that sweet, little, tiny foot. With that child's skull fragments. Or with that single eye.

Please tell me the North on your moral compass is not legal/illegal. Please.

Posted by: mk at May 9, 2008 10:10 AM


"I did. I wanted to know why it is that clinics can get away with disposal and HIPAA violations"

There we go again. Violations, ok, yeah, shoddy and shame on them.

I'm asking for specifics on the human contents of those Hefties. And "legal" is
all you can come up with?

Atrocities too numerous to count have been legal throughout history. My consolation these days is that someday our country will come to its senses and wipeout this legality. Someday.

Posted by: carder at May 9, 2008 10:20 AM


It's an issue you consider everyday, at least that's what I remember from one of your posts awhile back.

"Whether you or I like it or not, there is nothing illegal about those medical remains"

You're right, I don't like it. How about you?

Posted by: carder at May 9, 2008 10:28 AM


carder: You rock !

Posted by: Mike at May 9, 2008 10:36 AM


carder: You rock !

Posted by: Mike at May 9, 2008 10:37 AM


Carder does rock.

Posted by: Bethany at May 9, 2008 10:46 AM


As far as the specific body parts, abortion is legal. Whether your or I like it or not, there is nothing illegal about those medical remains, other than the means in which they were disposed of.

Posted by: Amanda at May 9, 2008 9:59 AM

Just because slavery used to be legal, did it make it right?

If it were still legal today, would you support the right to own and enslave blacks?

Posted by: Sandy at May 9, 2008 12:48 PM



@Sandy: That is really disturbing that women would do that. :(

Posted by: Rae at May 8, 2008 9:58 PM

Hi Rae,
I wish I could find the article. Since it was pre-internet it is difficult. I called the paper she was employed by and called the library too. Nobody could help me locate the article. Since I don't know the date of the article it has been impossible to locate.

Also,
I have posted the story several times about the girl I knew who aborted her almost viable baby to date the college football star. (I used to work with her sister)

She was 18 and was pregnant with her high school boyfriend's baby. She broke up with him and had to do something about that little inconvenience growing inside her since she started going out with a "college man".

She went in for an appointment and left. The clinic kept calling her back to get the job done. Her baby was aborted just in time, just a couple days before viability.

Posted by: Sandy at May 9, 2008 12:56 PM


Carder, because it's tiresome to come to threads like these where you and all the other pro-lifers are waiting for us to say one thing that you can jump on us for.

I have stated MULTIPLE TIMES on MULTIPLE THREADS that I do not and will not support a doctor or clinic that is violating laws or lying to patients or whatever else they could do wrong.

There, I said it. Happy now? *sigh*

I'm not about to change my stance on abortion because some doctor did it wrong, just like I'm not about to stop going to the dentist because he stopped washing his hands. I'm just going to go to a different dentist. That's all. You try to make it sound like all abortionists are these horrible people when in fact, like every other industry, there are a few kooks. Revoke their medical licenses. I don't care. You don't stop a practice all together just because there are some kooks.

Posted by: Edyt at May 9, 2008 12:59 PM


Why stop at slaves, Sandy? How about the mauling of Christians and prisoners of war by wild beasts?

Or the hearts ripped out of living victims by the Aztecs?

How about nailing people to beams of wood so they can die horrifying deaths?

Or forcing Native Americans off their land?

Textbooks are full of this stuff.

At one time this was all legal, whether they liked it or not. Therefore, there was nothing wrong about it.

Elizabeth, I liked your point about detachment. "Disconnect" was the term that has been brewing in my brain. An intentional short- circuiting of the moral wires. What do you think: Left-brain Therapy? Give these guys prolactin shots?

Posted by: carder at May 9, 2008 1:05 PM


Edyt,

I'd switch doctors, too. I don't think all abortionists are horrible people. In fact, I know of one that goes to church (not mine). I just think they are terribly, terribly misguided.

Let's just say Dr. Sharpe had a bad day and wasn't on top of his trash, but on most days he's diligent about getting those limbs in the tupperware and out of everyone's eye distance. He followed the rules. What then? Just cuz the parts are hidden, does it make it okay?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the PCers are concerned about the lack of protocol, whereas the PLers are outraged about the humanity being desecrated.

I'm not trying to pick on you, Edyt. I enjoy the dialoge.

Little fingers and toes get to me.

Posted by: carder at May 9, 2008 1:18 PM


Yes, well it's the same dialogue every time an abortionist gets caught doing something wrong.

Pro-lifers: *collective outrage*
Pro-choicer: Gross.
Pro-lifers: Aren't you upset that this doctor is doing XYZ?!?!
Pro-choicer: Sure. I'd go to another doctor.
Pro-lifers: But abortion is gross and wrong and you're supporting people like this!!!!!
Pro-choicer: I thought you were appalled at this doctor's practices. I am too. Oh, I see, you just needed another reason to slam pro-choicers. Great. See ya.
Pro-lifers: Pro-choicers don't care about adequate medical practices or life!!!!

*yawn* You'll forgive me if I bow out of this one, right?

Posted by: Edyt at May 9, 2008 1:27 PM


Go ahead, Edyt. I'm sure there are other fish to fry.


(But if it bores you, why do you keep coming back to the blog?)

Posted by: carder at May 9, 2008 1:33 PM


Yes, it's the same dialogue every time an abortionist gets caught doing something wrong (which Edyt has unwittingly admitted is not a rare occurrence, as she has apparently witnessed this same scenario on quite a few occasions).

Out of only about 700 clinics nationwide (about 1200 of which have been shut down in the last 30 years-many times for disgusting practices such as this case), the amount of clinics being caught doing these disgusting deeds is not at all "rare", no matter how anyone would like to spin things.

Pro-lifers: *collective outrage about baby parts*
Pro-choicer: "It's legal, so what? Women can just go to a different clinic."

Pro-lifers: Aren't you at all upset that these abortionists are throwing out what is obviously baby parts and leaving them in dumpsters as though they are garbage? You can see hands, feet, eyes, and the skulls. Can you really deny that this is wrong, after seeing with your own eyes what is happening?

Pro-choicer: Sure. Whatever. I'd go to another clinic. They should keep that stuff hidden from sight - That way we don't have to acknowledge what is actually being done and we can keep calling it "choice".

Pro-lifers: But these are obviously babies, and you're supporting people who would not only kill them, chop them to pieces, but then leave them in dumpsters along with fast food wrappers, and other miscellaneous garbage. Doesn't this even bother you, to see those baby feet?

Pro-choicer: I thought you were appalled at this doctor's practices. Oh, I see, you just needed another reason to slam pro-choicers. Great. See ya.

Pro-lifers: Yes, we are appalled at the doctor's practices of killing the unborn. The other stuff is to be expected of those who don't care about the basic right to life. Abortionists obviously don't care about adequate medical practices, life, or women.

Posted by: Bethany at May 9, 2008 1:57 PM


Edyt,
The problem is that you say you will just go to another dr. But why when you want safe and legal abortion available for women don't ANY of you go after these guys. Where is NARAL??????????

You would rather have abortionists continue to do their dirty work even if it means letting them off the hook. You down play this behavior.

It is digusting. You stand for a woman's right to choose safe and legal abortion, but ignore the very facts that prove this guy has violated health codes. If he is doing this, what other horrors are taking place in his office? It seems like a pretty simple rule to follow. "Don't dump medical records and aborted babies in the dumpster"

He has already admitted in a presentation to medical students to lying to his patients and not washing his hands. Time is money I guess. Takes to long to wash hands between abortions. He probably doesn't wash his gruesome aborting utinsels between takes either.


If your dentist is not washing his hands do you report him to the ADA?? I would sure hope so.
Sheeeezzzzzz.

Posted by: Sandy at May 9, 2008 2:54 PM


Sandy, really!

Posted by: Bethany at May 9, 2008 3:06 PM


Hi Sandy. I don't work for NARAL, but if I did, I would love to start an effort to ensuring all clinics are safe and clean.

This guy deserves to have his license revoked. What more do you want me to say? I'm not saying he should be allowed to continue business as usual.

Posted by: Edyt at May 9, 2008 3:12 PM


Edyt,
You don't have to work for NARAL to do something. Please, what a lame excuse. Write letters to them and local papers, start your own group to ensure all abortion clinics are safe. You guys let the pro-life people do allllll the work to out these creeps and then you sit back there and criticize and make fun of the movement for doing something. Many clinics that have been shut down is do to pro-life organizations who are on the watch. Pro-lifers are more interested in saving women's lives than you are.

Posted by: Sandy at May 9, 2008 3:24 PM


Edyt 3:12PM

As I recall, just legalizing abortion was going to guarantee clinic safety and cleanliness. Why hasn't it. It sounds like all legalizing abortion has done is allow hacks to put out their shingles and carry on business with no legal interference.

Also, why would starting a group be necessary. Shouldn't this be a matter of great concern to NARAL already? How about NOW. Where are they?


Posted by: Mary at May 9, 2008 3:46 PM


Amanda, 5/8 9:42am

Its been shown time and again that women having late term abortions are NOT having them because of any risk to themselves or the fetus. Late term abortions dispose of mainly healthy babies and are done on mostly healthy women.
Also, any woman who is at risk for any reason need go no further than the nearest hospital equipped to mangage her care.
That's why we have high risk maternity care units and specialists as well as newborn intensive care units.

Posted by: Mary at May 9, 2008 3:59 PM


Edyt 12:13am

You ask if a woman would have an abortion earlier if it were less controversial.
I think if abortion was truly controversial a woman would be more strongly inclined to have as early an abortion as possible, making it less likely anyone would know she was ever pregnant or had an abortion.

Posted by: Mary at May 9, 2008 4:06 PM


Sandy 2:54PM

Can you imagine any reputable doctor admitting to medical students that he/she doesn't always wash his/her hands between patients? If your own doctor made such an admission?
I find it very reassuring that my doctor washes his hands when he first enters the room, and again before he leaves. I'm sure the next patient greatly appreciates it as well!

Posted by: Mary at May 9, 2008 4:11 PM


bye Doug, Carder, Janet, Leah, Bobby B, HisMan, Rae, PiP, Hal, etc ... will miss you all - even SoMG a little!

Oh John, I love you.

Major lump in my throat.

I have never met anybody like you, really like you. You soar upon the winds in your knowledge and explanations of nutrition and how our bodies work. I've seen you riding high, and I always will.

Here's hoping you do return to say Hi once in a while. It'd mean a lot to me and many others.

Best,

Doug

Posted by: Doug at May 10, 2008 9:31 AM


John,

I second Doug. The very best to you and please pay a visit when you can.

Posted by: Mary at May 10, 2008 9:58 AM


John,
God bless you!!

Doug,
What you wrote gave me a major lump in my throat.

Posted by: Carla at May 10, 2008 11:49 AM


Hey John:

Please resonsider. Your posts are awesome and you make great contributions. Your loss cannot be replaced.

At least pray about it my friend.

Posted by: HisMan at May 10, 2008 1:49 PM


@HisMan,

just thought I'd want you folks to know ... it's not you people at all! This new computer has broken down far too many times already.

I am financially poor, so I've taken this opportunity to spend the time left as a happy soul vs a frustrated one. Can't even send nor receive e-mails.

Silence and prayer await ... bonne chance ... lotsa love do need prayers though .... you folks have also helped me immensely, especially MK and her Dad!


Peace,
John

Posted by: John McDonell at May 10, 2008 4:25 PM


Pray for us, John McD.

Posted by: carder at May 10, 2008 7:59 PM


John, I thought you meant that being online and having e-mail were taking too much of your time, versus the "living you have yet to do." I understand the frustration and waste of time that computer troubles can cause, but is there a solution that could have you remain, without wasting time, in your opinion?

E-mail me at porkloin@aol.com, and let's see what we can do.

Doug

Doug

Posted by: Doug at May 12, 2008 12:40 AM


Doug,

I was thinking the same thing. I want to help financially and I think I'm not alone. If you could email me, I think we could "fix" this....

Posted by: mk at May 12, 2008 6:27 AM


I'm confused - besides the gross factor of digging through medical waste, what's illegal here? What exactly did one expect would happed at a clinic that provides abortions, a funeral? No.

So - aside from being morally offended, what was the point of reporting them to the police?

Posted by: Danielle at May 19, 2008 4:01 PM


The actual regard for any human life here is gradually declining.I have seen people's response to the Bodies The Exhibit that is touring this country and these poor people that were murdered in Chinese prisons, mental institutions,and abortion clinics ;along with a poor woman pregnant and her abdomen cut open and exposed to show her child while she poses with her hand behind her head like a model.I have tried to protest against it and they say it is educational.They bring their children to see it as a summer vacation attraction! Bodies of dead captives exposed ,skinned like animals ,plastized and mummified into horrendous ,macabe attractions as a for profit entertainment.The only way to show an objection legally is to demand a REFUND.They are making millions of dollars on these tours all over the world.God is not far from a tremendous outpouring of wrath.The sanctity of life is not regarded as a sacred right before life emerges from the womb nor after it begins, or even after it ends.This money at all costs religion has cast out conscience ;and human realization that the creature has begun to worship himself instead of his Creator;has gone beyond anyone's comprehension.Earthquakes? Famine? Epidemics? God is patient, God is merciful but time is at it's peak and man cannot even recognize his sins for what they are.his pride has totally over run his reason.

Posted by: Ellen at July 30, 2008 9:33 AM


Oh calm the hell down. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. Jeeze. You people sure do get yourselves worked into a tizzy.

Posted by: benny at September 2, 2008 11:08 PM


ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats disgustind & i dont even know what it is!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: jessica at December 11, 2008 1:29 PM