Three saline abortions failed? How does that even happen? At that point, if it were me, I would have just said, you know maybe this is a sign I should just have the kid.

The Edelin story ia about an abortion that occurred 35 years ago, in 1973.

The details have conveniently been left out of this really old case.

Jess - are you familiar at all with saline abortions?

The interviewer asks Edelin, "You've said that the Supreme Court decision a year ago upholding the federal abortion ban opens the door to bans on all abortion procedures. Can you explain why?"

Edelin:
"...if you look at the description of the procedure in the ban, it could be language used to describe any abortion procedure, at even eight weeks or 12 weeks."

Gruesome is as gruesome does.

Gruesome is as gruesome does.

Posted by: carder at May 21, 2008 6:56 PM
...............................................

No matter where you go, there you are.

Anybody who can't figure out what specific actions the PBA ban prohibits -- Well, he may be evil enough to be an abortionist, but he's too dumb to be a doctor.

"The habit of religion is oppressive, an easy way out of thought." --Peter Ustinov

"The Edelin story ia about an abortion that occurred 35 years ago, in 1973."

Yea, what the heck, he murdered 35 years ago, let's give the guy a break.

Yeah, well if you have to stoop to quoting Peter Ustinov, a paragon of atheism, that's pretty lame.

One would think exactly the opposite: the atheist doesn't really have to think about anything, whether what he's doing is right or wrong, whether he's accountable or not, even whether or how it affects another person. The atheist simply does whatever he wants.
On the other hand the Christian has to live his life responsibly, think before acting - he has some moral tenets to follow.

"One would think exactly the opposite: the atheist doesn't really have to think about anything, whether what he's doing is right or wrong, whether he's accountable or not, even whether or how it affects another person."

Actually, I would think the atheist would have to think a lot harder about what's right and wrong.

Yeah, that's why Christianity has produced Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, John Henry Newman, Karol Wotjya, Deitrich von Hildebrand, to name a few - all people who ne'er had an intelligent thought enter their head.

Come on, Christianity could have never produced the Great Douglas Adams!

Now it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful [the Babel fish] could have evolved by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.

The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED"

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

Edyt,

The next line is:

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

Most leading theologians claim that this argument isn't worth a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid from making a fortune when he used it as the central argument in his book Well That About Wraps It Up For God.

"I am convinced there is no God", and devoted himself to secular causes such as environmentalism. Despite this, he did state in the same interview that he was "fascinated by religion." [...] "I love to keep poking and prodding at it. I’ve thought about it so much over the years that that fascination is bound to spill over into my writing." His fascination he ascribed to the fact that so many "otherwise rational... intelligent people... nevertheless take it [the existence of God] seriously". Douglas Adams

Interesting.

[ot]

having trouble getting to rhrealitycheck link; is there a problem?

One would think exactly the opposite: the atheist doesn't really have to think about anything, whether what he's doing is right or wrong, whether he's accountable or not, even whether or how it affects another person. The atheist simply does whatever he wants.
On the other hand the Christian has to live his life responsibly, think before acting - he has some moral tenets to follow.

See, it's disheartening to me to think that Christians are only nice or "good" because they want to make sure they have a ticket into heaven.

I'm an athiest, and I think I'm a good person. I treat people well because I genuinely care about my fellow human beings and I hope that they, in turn, will treat me well also.

"There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing love for all religions." - ILN, 1/13/06

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." - Chapter 5, What's Wrong With The World, 1910

"The truth is, of course, that the curtness of the Ten Commandments is an evidence, not of the gloom and narrowness of a religion, but, on the contrary, of its liberality and humanity. It is shorter to state the things forbidden than the things permitted: precisely because most things are permitted, and only a few things are forbidden." - ILN 1-3-20

The above quotes are by G.K. Chesterton.

Anon said 12:09: See, it's disheartening to me to think that Christians are only nice or "good" because they want to make sure they have a ticket into heaven.

That's akin to saying "Children are only good because they want dessert". Children have rules to follow at home just as Christians have rules to follow. Christians are called "children of God" after all.

I'm an athiest, and I think I'm a good person. I treat people well because I genuinely care about my fellow human beings and I hope that they, in turn, will treat me well also.

That's a good thing. Good and bad come in all shapes and sizes, you know?

That's akin to saying "Children are only good because they want dessert". Children have rules to follow at home just as Christians have rules to follow. Christians are called "children of God" after all

To me, this just sounds like Christians cannot be trusted to "be good" unless they have a reward waiting for them. I guess I had hoped that Christians were good because they cared about their fellow humans, as Jesus did.

I didn't say anything about atheists being good or bad. But it must be pretty hard without some kind of moral code to follow or at least a moral code based on what....your feelings that day?

I didn't say anything about atheists being good or bad. But it must be pretty hard without some kind of moral code to follow or at least a moral code based on what....your feelings that day?

I DO have a moral code, Patricia. It's treating others the way I would want to be treated. It's being compassionate simply because human beings all deserve compassion. It's not hard at all.

You know what, Patricia? I would never EVER take pleasure in the illness and suffering of another person. Even if I disliked that person immensely. Because everyone has family and friends who care about and love them, and those people are suffering, too. And the suffering of others is something no one should take pleasure in.

I've noticed on this site that there are plenty of people who consider themselves "Christian" who have a difficult time offering compassion to anyone who is not exactly like them.

Dear Anon,
I've noticed on this site that there are plenty of people who consider themselves "not Christians" who have a difficult time offering compassion to anyone who is not exactly like them.

Just sayin.

I see that too, Carla, dont' get me wrong. It just surprises me more when it's a person who supposedly follows the teachings of Jesus, who preached forgiveness.

I know. I hear ya. I am more a read between the lines type person. I always try to figure out the intent of the writer. Sometimes it is crystal clear that some here are in a lot of pain.

I am a patient person though and do believe that when you treat others as you want to be treated you can respectfully disagree. The snide comments and insults are not how all of us operate. :)

Janet said:That's akin to saying "Children are only good because they want dessert". Children have rules to follow at home just as Christians have rules to follow. Christians are called "children of God" after all

Anon said: To me, this just sounds like Christians cannot be trusted to "be good" unless they have a reward waiting for them. I guess I had hoped that Christians were good because they cared about their fellow humans, as Jesus did.

Maybe I should rephrase that....Christians are supposed to be good out of love for God, and their fellow man, not for fear of Hell or the promise of Heaven.

Anonymous, do you have a name? We're going to start confusing you with the others pretty soon.

Thank you, Janet, for clarifying. I may not understand how those with a religious viewpoint think, but that makes more sense to me than the punishment/reward vibe I was getting from your first response!

And thank you Carla, for being so resepectful. I'm sure you're doing so because you are a nice person, not just for future rewards! ;)

I'll sign off as Bee for now!

No problem, Bee.
By the way, my children love your movie!! :)

Bee:
but apparently lots of atheists and others too have no problem with the suffering of unborn children when they are aborted.....

but apparently lots of atheists and others too have no problem with the suffering of unborn children when they are aborted..

Because there is usually no suffering at all involved there, while the pregnant women, without doubt a thinking, feeling person, is considered by Pro-Choicers.

There are people of all backgrounds and faiths who are pro-choice. Some, like Doug, obviously believe that the fetus doesn't suffer. Some may not even care.

Some people are pro-life because they believe abortion is a sin against god. Some people are pro-life because they think that taking the life of another person is wrong, regardless of their belief in a higher power.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, Patricia.

Bee

There are people of all backgrounds and faiths who are pro-choice. Some, like Doug, obviously believe that the fetus doesn't suffer.

Ahem - to a point in gestation. For most fetuses, there is some awareness past a point in gestation - you won't find too many people who will argue with you there.

Sorry, Doug. I knew what you meant, but maybe my interpretation of it wasn't clear.

Bee

Welcome, Bee.

To Bee,
From Janet.

Patricia, you wrote: "Yeah, well if you have to stoop to quoting Peter Ustinov, a paragon of atheism, that's pretty lame."

Also a great intellectual and a great actor. Did you see him in SPARTICUS?

Hiya Bee.

SoMG, no doubt on Ustinov, really "Sir Peter Ustinov."

He won an actor for that 'Spartacus' role. He was one sly old dude, wasn't he?

Aww, thanks for the picture, and for the welcomes!

Bee

Doug,

He won an actor for that 'Spartacus' role. He was one sly old dude, wasn't he?
Posted by: Doug at May 23, 2008 6:52 AM

He won an actor? Really? Imagine the food bill. Where does he keep him, on the fireplace mantel?

Bee,

Glad you liked it! I took that picture yesterday in my garden. I guess it was meant to bee. (Sorry - that was baaad!)

Janet,

You took that!? Wow. I'm impressed!

He won an actor? Really? Imagine the food bill. Where does he keep him, on the fireplace mantel?

Oh MK, please have pity on me. I fell in with some bad company last night, and ended up with just four hours of sleep.

Anon,
Thank you, I have a great camera that does all the work for me.
Macro button, auto focus, and wha-la! (A Canon Powershot S5 IS.)

Is anyone else creeped out by this abortionist's photo?

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/images/snidely.jpg

Ya know, the guy at the top of the thread reminds me of Snidley (link above) from the "Dudley Do-right" cartoon!

Ha! Janet, I can see it. He just needs to grow the mustache a little longer, and use wax and curl up the ends.

Gotta love it.

(Groan) In college, guys said I looked like Dudley Doright.

Eeny-Meany, Chili-Beany, the Spirits are about to speak.

Doug,
I had to google Eeny-meany...I don't remember that! I see a definite resemblance between you and Dud!:) What a cutie!

Janet, thanks, but fear not - I don't look like him any longer. Last thing my wife said was something about "Ernest Hemingway..."

About all I could do was shake my head.