Vancouver couple have been arrested but will not be charged after posting an Internet ad on Craigslist, offering their seven-day-old baby for $10,000, police said Tuesday.

What if it wasn't a hoax? Surrogate mothers are often paid.

Clarify, Doug.

Carder, women give birth and are paid for it, delivering the babies to people who want them.

In this case, what if the woman or couple decided to do it with their newborn, rather than contracting to do it ahead of time?

I realize that as time goes on, fewer people will be in favor of it, was with teenagers, for example. Or would sentiment go back up for teens? ; )

Alternatively, what if they decided to do it, versus "leaving the baby on a doorstep," as with safe haven programs.

Doug, surrogate mother's aren't paid for a baby.

They are paid for the service of carrying the child for a couple who can't.

You can't put a price tag on a child.

They aren't objects or property to be sold.

So you are ok with selling babies on Ebay or Craig's List Doug?

So you are ok with selling babies on Ebay or Craig's List Doug?

Carla, no, I'd stick with Yahoo or babyexchange.com. But seriously, verification of the buyers would be a questiion, same as with adoption, and thus no, I wouldn't think eBay is suitable.

As for Craigslist, the end is the same as with somebody advertizing, saying they wanted to be a surrogate mother. People pay, and they end up getting a baby, so I'm not sure.

Doug, surrogate mothers aren't paid for a baby. They are paid for the service of carrying the child for a couple who can't.

Bethany, I think it's splitting hairs. In the end, people have paid to get a baby.
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You can't put a price tag on a child. They aren't objects or property to be sold.

Yet isn't that actually what happens in reality? "You want a baby? It's gonna cost you this much..." That's the case whether it's a surrogate mother, an adoption facilitator charging fees, or a foreign agency which has babies "in inventory."

If it's Craigslist which is facilitating things, rather than another agency or a private person-to-person deal, what is the real difference?

I think surrogate mothers are a good deal for both parties, often. I don't think "selling babies on eBay" would be good.

As for Craigslist, etc., who knows? I'm undecided.

Yes, it is splitting hairs, Doug, one of many many reason why I oppose surrogacy.

People put prices of babies all the time via other deplorable acts like IVF, when children all other the globe need parents.

Adopting from social services is a cakewalk. The state pays for everything. You fill out some papers and do a homestudy and viola: parenthood.

There are plenty of children to love. It's those that want a particular age or color that want to buy them or exploit women to get them.

Yes, it is splitting hairs, Doug, one of many many reason why I oppose surrogacy.

People put prices of babies all the time via other deplorable acts like IVF, when children all over the globe need parents.

Adopting from social services is a cakewalk. The state pays for everything. You fill out some papers and do a homestudy and viola: parenthood.

There are plenty of children to love. It's those that want a particular age or color that want to buy them or exploit women to get them.

People put prices of babies all the time via other deplorable acts like IVF, when children all over the globe need parents.

Jacqueline, I don't think it's "deplorable," because what is so bad about IVF if a woman is having trouble getting pregnant the "normal" way?

It'd be nice, yes, if all those children got good, caring parents, but you're still going to have lots and lots of people wanting to have their own (biological) kids.

Jacqueline, I don't think it's "deplorable," because what is so bad about IVF if a woman is having trouble getting pregnant the "normal" way?

Doug, I don't expect you to find IVF deplorable since tearing a fetus limb from limb is acceptable to you. What I find deplorable about IVF is that for every child that is born, about a dozen where created artificially and died. Same with surrogacy. I also view the divorce of sex from reproduction to be a perversion.

It'd be nice, yes, if all those children got good, caring parents, but you're still going to have lots and lots of people wanting to have their own (biological) kids.

That's true. I would love to concieve and bear a baby. It's a painful loss to not have that experience, that particular bond, passing along your eyes or nose, etc. Infertility is painful and I understand wanting a biological kid. But that doesn't excuse killing your kids in the process and exploiting a woman so desolate, desperate or naive as to sell her body.

Selfishness: Killing one's own children when you don't want them (Abortion) and killing one's own children when you desperately do want them (IVF, Surrogacy).

What I find deplorable about IVF is that for every child that is born, about a dozen were created artificially and died.

It's quite a stretch to say "child," there, Jacqueline. I realize you don't like it, but it's a good way for people to end up having their own kids.
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I also view the divorce of sex from reproduction to be a perversion.

The vast majority of sex in the US isn't "for reproduction." Good grief.....

You might change your mind on that, later on, as well.

How is surrogacy "killing one's own children," even in your opinion?

The vast majority of sex in the US isn't "for reproduction." Good grief.....

Sex doesn't have to be be had with the intent of reproduction, rather it just needs to be open to it.

And thank you for supporting my point that America's sex life is almost universally perverse.

You might change your mind on that, later on, as well.

If I were evil or selfish, which I'd like to think that I am neither. I'm offended by this implication.

Do you oppose anything on moral grounds? Murder of post-born people, for example? How'd you like it if I implied that your mind might change on that if someone reeaallllly pissed you off?

How is surrogacy "killing one's own children," even in your opinion?

It's not adoption. It's the placement of embryos from one set of parents in an unrelated woman, many of which will die.

You might change your mind on that, later on, as well.

Condascend much, Doug?

You know that some people have moral convictions that self-interest can't shatter. You probably don't, but save your projections for someone else.

Would you kill your wife, Doug?

Jacque, great posts, and I agree about Surrogacy and IVF, btw.

"The vast majority of sex in the US isn't "for reproduction." Good grief....."

J: Sex doesn't have to be be had with the intent of reproduction, rather it just needs to be open to it.

Uh, no, not necessarily.
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"You might change your mind on that, later on, as well."

If I were evil or selfish, which I'd like to think that I am neither. I'm offended by this implication. Condescend much, Doug?

We're all "selfish, i.e. our motivation comes from the self, we try to do what we want the most from among our available choicers, etc.

I don't think you're evil, but it's not condescending for me to note what is true for many people. I'm only saying there's a possibility.
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"How is surrogacy "killing one's own children," even in your opinion?"

It's not adoption. It's the placement of embryos from one set of parents in an unrelated woman, many of which will die.

Okay, I didn't know it was common to place several embryos that way, there.
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I would not kill my wife, but there could be a situation where I would favor stopping life-support or medical measures to keep the body alive, and the same for me if she had to make the decision.

J: Sex doesn't have to be be had with the intent of reproduction, rather it just needs to be open to it.

Uh, no, not necessarily.

Unless it's perverse, yes it does.

We're all "selfish, i.e. our motivation comes from the self, we try to do what we want the most from among our available choicers, etc.

Well, I know several people that are irrational in that they make altruistic choices. People that decry altruism are typically those that want to feel normal in being selfish bastards.

I don't think you're evil, but it's not condescending for me to note what is true for many people.

I am not many people.

I'm only saying there's a possibility.
Anything is possible, but it's offensive to make that claim to me. It's possible that you might become a homicidal maniac, but I wouldn't condascendingly accuse you that "someday, when you're all grown up, you might change your mind..."

Okay, I didn't know it was common to place several embryos that way, there.

Doesn't matter if it was only one embryo they place, he/she has a fraction of a chance of survival. These parents wouldn't take those chances with their own lives.

I'll bet if you said, "We could give you a biological child, but the chances are 97% that you'd die in the process" these parents would say, "We'll adopt instead."

These people take risks with their children's lives which aren't theirs to take.

I would not kill my wife

Your mind might change about that... See how shitty a thing that is to say, now?

J: Sex doesn't have to be be had with the intent of reproduction, rather it just needs to be open to it.

"Uh, no, not necessarily."

Unless it's perverse, yes it does.

Nope - you don't get to decide for other people, there.
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Okay, I didn't know it was common to place several embryos that way, there.

Doesn't matter if it was only one embryo they place, he/she has a fraction of a chance of survival. These parents wouldn't take those chances with their own lives.

They're doing it because they haven't been successful in having fertilization take place in the woman's body. I just don't see that as a bad thing. I do understand that you do, though.
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I'll bet if you said, "We could give you a biological child, but the chances are 97% that you'd die in the process" these parents would say, "We'll adopt instead."

These people take risks with their children's lives which aren't theirs to take.

You saying that does not make it so.
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"I would not kill my wife."

Your mind might change about that...

It can't be ruled out, sure, on the basis of not being impossible, but what I said is true for me at this point.
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See how shitty a thing that is to say, now?

I don't see it as "shitty." It's a point of argument. And indeed, some people do end up killing their spouses, so yeah, it's not impossible.

Meanwhile, a LOT of people's attitudes about sex change.

"I would not kill my wife."

Your mind might change about that...

It can't be ruled out, sure, on the basis of not being impossible, but what I said is true for me at this point.

Doug, You should be careful what you write on the internet. Those words could come back to haunt you.

Janet, what I said is true for anybody, since the negative can't be proven.

Doug, not me!

Janet, if one doesn't have a spouse, etc...?

I sure wish I had a pretzel and a beer right now...

Doug, Yum! With a slice of salted swiss cheese too. Talk about carbs!

After last weekend, I'm on the straight-and-narrow as far as diet.... Sigh.

Janet, that reminds me - definitely, pretzels and cheese, what a great combination. Many is the time I've sat down with a pound or so of each, and a half gallon of tea...

Karen at the Families against Planned Parenthood web site is asking for everyone's special prayers. A 14 year old couple is scheduled to have an abortion at 7 AM tomorrow (Friday) morning. They are being pressured by their parents. Please pray that they change their minds and do not go through with the abortion.