And a doctor who worked at a vd clinic and a 'writer' whose credentials I cant even find are experts on psychology by what virtue?

Sometimes you don't need stats, or sources...sometimes good old common sense just makes, well, sense.

TR - Good enough for The Times Online.

TR- Google is your friend. Learn to use it.

Suzi Godson:
Writes books on sex and is the Times' expert
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Suzi+Godson&x=0&y=0

Dr. Stuttaford is a doctor, author, and former member of parliament. He was trained at Oxford.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Stuttaford

I think these two are probably qualified to talk about side effects and how they affect sex lives.

Let's see: Sex leads to painful, humiliating experience. (This is assuming that the woman doesn't even see the fetus as a baby, that it's purely the procedure itself that was the problem.) What sort of masochist would you be to want to sign on for more?

Let's see: Sex leads to painful, humiliating experience. (This is assuming that the woman doesn't even see the fetus as a baby, that it's purely the procedure itself that was the problem.) What sort of masochist would you be to want to sign on for more?

Posted by: Christina at May 5, 2008 5:50 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah, probably the same reason most women lose their sex drive after giving birth.

Apparently child birth turns men and women off sex as well. Many relationships terminate after the birth of a child. The trauma of gestation and delivery can be a powerful motivation for women to avoid sex altogether.
Men with Madonna/whore complexes can find women with children sexually taboo. Didn't Elvis have that issue with Priscilla when she became a mother?

Is it easier to deal with circumstances where choice is not an issue?
I personally don't think so, but others might.

Yeah, probably the same reason most women lose their sex drive after giving birth.

Posted by: Laura at May 5, 2008 6:09 PM

Funny this never happened to my friends, most of whom have had 4 or more children. In fact, my girlfriend expecting her ninth has an excellent sex life. Even with a body falling apart! I think good sex depends alot on the relationship OUTSIDE the bedroom and NOT between the sheets.

Funny. Decreased sex drive after childbirth is really common, and may just be Nature's little way of spacing babies to ensure resources and survival:

http://pregnancyandbaby.com/pregnancy/baby/When-sex-drive-slows-after-childbirth-4600.htm

I agree with Laura on this one?

Yes it's true...after I had my daughter it was impossible to even think of sex..I was like..never.again.

I suppose it has to do with being in the baby haze for the first couple of months. Which is why I'm amazed at peoople who have a 3-month old and are pregnant again. To each their own, but I think I would fall over dead if that were me.

Yeah, probably the same reason most women lose their sex drive after giving birth.

No. Getting up every 3 hours to breastfeed a baby will do that to you.

Abortion is supposed to be a painless, carefree way to deal with a problem. Life is supposed to go on as usual after abortion.

No one expects that after childbirth.

One more reason childbirth should be outlawed:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

When we think of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, we think of a war veteran who witnessed unspeakable acts or catastrophic events such as September 11th. What we don't think of are women who have given birth.

For approximately 7% of women, the birth experience itself is so traumatic, that they now suffer Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) After Childbirth. This is only one of the less common but certainly more serious of the postpartum mood disorders. Others include Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) After Childbirth and Panic Disorder (or Anxiety Disorder) After Childbirth.

Unlike women who have experienced these types of disorders, the onset or beginning of symptoms in this case, doesn't start until after giving birth.

There are 2 common features of childbirth that make it potentially traumatizing: extreme pain and a sense of loss of control. For example, if the medical staff does not honor the mother's right to privacy by appropriately covering her or by allowing other unknown people into the delivery room such as students. These types of events could result in emotional trauma. There are also more obvious forms of trauma. These could include anesthesia not being delivered effectively during a cesarean section or the death of the baby.

What is also important to understand is that it is the mother's perception of what is defined to her as traumatic.

Signs/Symptoms PTSD After Childbirth:
The person has experienced an event, which they perceive as traumatic;

Flashbacks of the event occur (sudden and vivid memories);

Nightmares of the event;

Inability to recall an important aspect of the event - psychgenic amnesia;

Exaggerated startle response, constantly on edge;

Hyper-arousal, always on guard;

Hyper-vigilant, constantly looking around for trouble or stressors;

Avoidance of all reminders of the traumatic event;

Intense psychological stress at exposure to events that resemble the traumatic event;

Physiological reactivity on exposure to events resembling the traumatic event - panic attacks, sweating, palpitations;

Fantasies of retaliation;

Cynicism and distrust of authority figures and public institutions;

Hypersensitivity to injustice

Masking Symptoms:
Many times, symptoms of PTSD After Childbirth are masked by other symptoms such as Alcohol and Drug Abuse, Eating Disorders, Compulsive Gambling or Compulsive Spending, Psychosomatic Problems, Homicidal, Suicidal or Self-Mutilating Behaviors, Phobias, Panic Disorders, Depression of depressive symptoms, Dissociation Symptoms, Fainting Spells, or Psychotic Episodes.

Research Study:
Dr. Cheryl Beck, Researcher and Professor at the University of Connecticut's School of Nursing is conducting a case study on PTSD after Childbirth. She has invited other mothers who may have experienced these types of symptoms to contact her by e-mail at cheryl.beck@uconn.edu for participation in her study.

Getting Help:
If you or someone you love is experiencing the above symptoms, get help immediately. This type of condition doesn't get better on its own. Go to your local Emergency Room or call your physician.

More support can be found online at Postpartum.org.

This page is brought to you by:
ECHN's Family Development Center

Related Topics:
Pregnancy Resources - Safe Houses
Adoption Agency Locator
Teen Pregnancy Links
Postpartum Depressive Disorders
Postpartum Support Groups (state by state)
Health and Safety Links

Yeah, probably the same reason most women lose their sex drive after giving birth.

No. Getting up every 3 hours to breastfeed a baby will do that to you.

Abortion is supposed to be a painless, carefree way to deal with a problem. Life is supposed to go on as usual after abortion.

No one expects that after childbirth.

Posted by: SUZANNE at May 5, 2008 10:53 PM
.................

No s***! The woman just feels lucky to be alive after the experience of childbirth.
Every three hours to breast feed?
Be honest. You have never given birth let alone breast fed a baby.

Edited by moderator Bethany at 8:37 AM

No s***! The woman just feels lucky to be alive after the experience of childbirth.
Every three hours to breast feed?
Be honest. You have never given birth let alone breast fed a baby.

I breastfed all three of my children every 3 hours, Sally. Did you ever breastfeed? Sometimes it was every hour, the way my children ate!

Check it out on any baby website. Because your baby can digest breastmilk much more easily than formula, they need to be fed more often. Every 2-3 hours is the basic professional recommendation.

You are correct Bethany! Oh and those growth spurts were the craziest! Nursing all the time or screaming!

I know. LOL!! So true. With my first baby I had him sleeping in the crib, and I would wake up to do his feedings. (I was trying to do everything "by the book"). By the second time, I was like, "why would I torture myself like that again?", and my daughter co-slept with us until she was about 9 months old and could sleep almost through the night. And my third did the same.
Being able to just turn over and nurse, without having to really wake up 3-4 times a night is soooooo much easier!

I would just like to say something on babies which is neither relevant nor constructive...

My little cousin Rose is THE cutest baby in the world! She is 10 months old and she waves and tries to imitate us when we make monkey noises (which she really likes) and plays peekaboo and is learning to walk etc etc etc. Plus she's a super-happy baby and she sleeps through the night.

Just thought you all should know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r84kalQz8g&feature=user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AGRPnXsRAM&feature=user

Worth your time, my friends. Rose is amazing.

She is adorable, Leah!!

Oh man...I didn't even bother cause she wanted to sleep with me from the time she was born..she was in my bed in the hospital with me! We share a room so I have no choice but to bring her in bed with me still..she will sleep in her own bed but when I come in to go to bed...it's like "okay mom I'm ready to come in your bed now" Lol.

I'm proud of her as though she were my own. I love when she gets up from naps: she has this HUGE smile on her face and she waves really enthusiastically.

I hope my babies are half as sweet as her.

For all the mothers out there who breastfeed regularly ... please be careful and don't do it any longer than you have to.

From the Story of Stuff.

There are over 100,000 synthetic chemicals in commerce today. Only a handful of these have even been tested for human health impacts and NONE of them have been tested for synergistic health impacts, that means when they interact with all the other chemicals we’re exposed to every day.

So, we don’t know the full impact of these toxics on our health and environment of all these toxic chemicals. But we do know one thing: Toxics in, Toxics Out. As long as we keep putting toxics into our production system, we are going to keep getting toxics in the stuff that we bring into our homes, our workplaces, and schools. And, duh, our bodies.

Like BFRs, brominated flame retardants. They are a chemical that make things more fireproof but they
are super toxic.24 They’re a neurotoxin—that means toxic to the brain. What are we even doing using a
chemical like this?

Yet we put them in our computers, our appliances, couches, mattresses, even some pillows. In fact,
we take our pillows, we douse them in a neurotoxin and then we bring them home and put our heads
on them for 8 hours a night to sleep. Now, I don’t know, but it seems to me that in this country with so much potential, we could think of a better way to stop our heads from catching on fire at night.

These toxics build up in the food chain and concentrate in our bodies.

Do you know what is the food at the top of the food chain with the highest levels of many toxic contaminants?

Human breast milk.

That means that we have reached a point where the smallest members of our societies—our babies—
are getting their highest lifetime dose of toxic chemicals from breastfeeding from their mothers.

That whole bottom part should be in italics, btw.

Guess you didn't read this yet, Edyt!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7385097.stm

"Abortion is supposed to be a painless, carefree way to deal with a problem. Life is supposed to go on as usual after abortion."
------------------------------------------

Suzanne..have you ever had an abortion??

Are you serious, Edyt? You really believe that nonsense?

I hope my babies are half as sweet as her.

Leah, I am sure they will be.
:)

Leah, I am sure they will be.
:)

Oh stop. :D

Bethany, the fact that synthetic chemicals do affect our bodies is a fact. Have you heard about the amount of ingested chemicals appearing in tap water because they go through our body and back into our water system? Now compare that to toxins coming directly from the source ... the body itself. No filtering process whatsoever.

I'm not saying breast feeding doesn't have positive results for babies. But it is growing more dangerous the more we fail to regulate chemical use. So I didn't say "Don't breastfeed" I said "Don't do it any longer than you have to."

Oh okay, thanks for clarifying, Edyt. Of course, I agree we have a problem with all of the chemicals in our water supply and different things that we use on a daily basis, but I think it's inevitable that our babies will be exposed to it...and feeding them formula as an alternative surely doesn't change matters in that regard (I can pronounce maybe one or two of the ingredients listed on formula containers). The air we breathe is likely more toxic than breast milk ever could be..
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/vocbaby.htm

I'm not saying breast feeding doesn't have positive results for babies. But it is growing more dangerous the more we fail to regulate chemical use. So I didn't say "Don't breastfeed" I said "Don't do it any longer than you have to."

Edyt, Although your motives may be good, I think you are unnecessarily alarming women with your vague declaration. I agree with Bethany.

Bethany, note that the study says "air we breath within our home" is more toxic.

And if you consider what I posted about BFRs, it's natural to conclude that because these chemicals are in our mattresses and such, they'll probably be in our air. We generally have more flame retardant furniture indoors than out, right? ;)

Secondly, that study .... well, only took eight milk samples from three women in Baltimore. Do I need to say more about that?

I think these two are probably qualified to talk about side effects and how they affect sex lives.

Posted by: Milehimama at May 5, 2008 5:00 PM\
***********
Neither one of them apparently have any training in psychology or counseling. You think they are qualified. I dont.

TR - Good enough for The Times Online.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at May 5, 2008 4:25 PM
************
And?

Secondly, that study .... well, only took eight milk samples from three women in Baltimore. Do I need to say more about that?

I didn't see the references for your research, except a link to a site that didn't have the article you quoted. Let me see the research for yours and then we can keep discussing it, if you like.

Sometimes you don't need stats, or sources...sometimes good old common sense just makes, well, sense.

Posted by: mk at May 5, 2008 4:04 PM
********
Sure, if you think an uneducated backside is a good source of information.
I dont.

Let's see: Sex leads to painful, humiliating experience. (This is assuming that the woman doesn't even see the fetus as a baby, that it's purely the procedure itself that was the problem.) What sort of masochist would you be to want to sign on for more?

Posted by: Christina at May 5, 2008 5:50 PM
***********
Oh yeah - sex is bad - sex is only for making babies. No one should have sex except when they want to reproduce. And antichoicers wonder why this kind of argument just opens them up to ridicule.

Sleep deprivation made me lose interest in sex - if I had the chance to be in bed I wanted to get every minute of sleep I could. When I pointed out to my husband that if HE would take on some responsibility with the baby during the night every once in awhile I might not be exhausted when I GOT to bed his nose got seriously out of joint.

Bethany, the site cites its sources.

Eeep...well Gabriella still wants to breastfeed about once a night..and she's 2..looks like she's gonna be all screwed up and have tons of chemicals in her body.

Only..she's had about one cold in her whole life and that went away in 2 days..oh and she's had the stomach flu (damn Christmas parties).

I think I'll stick with the breastfeeding. I would never give a baby formula..yuck. Talk about putting gross stuff in babies bodies..formula is awful, and it costs you an arm and a leg.

The whole benefit of "it's free!" for breast milk really seals the deal. :)

Bethany, the site cites its sources.

The site you linked to goes to the first page of the site, and is not linked to the original article that you posted a paragraph from, Edyt. Maybe you could direct me to the study itself?

The whole benefit of "it's free!" for breast milk really seals the deal. :)

Absolutely, Leah!

Eeep...well Gabriella still wants to breastfeed about once a night..and she's 2..looks like she's gonna be all screwed up and have tons of chemicals in her body.

LOL

Leah, 3:28 p.m.

That pretty much did it for me!!

Bethany, there's a link for the whole script where every source is cited.

And I agree with you, Elizabeth. Formula IS really gross and right now breastfeeding is the best we've got. I just can't understand why we haven't developed a safer version of breast milk yet ... or at least tried to remove common toxins from our everyday products.

Pet food is another thing you wouldn't expect to be really bad, but I've read a bit about how some pet food can be downright poisonous! Yikes.

Oh Edyt I know! I have read some stuff about pet food that is seriously disgusting!

No s***! The woman just feels lucky to be alive after the experience of childbirth.
Every three hours to breast feed?
Be honest. You have never given birth let alone breast fed a baby.

I breastfed all three of my children every 3 hours, Sally. Did you ever breastfeed? Sometimes it was every hour, the way my children ate!

Check it out on any baby website. Because your baby can digest breastmilk much more easily than formula, they need to be fed more often. Every 2-3 hours is the basic professional recommendation.
Posted by: Bethany at May 6, 2008 8:42 AM

...............................

Funny that you have a problem with the word s***. What did you clean from your collective baby's butts?
Yes Bethany. I breast fed. Did your mother? Or am I one of those women that made it OK for you to do it too?
Every 3 hours? What is that about?

I have no idea what your above post was supposed to mean, Sally.

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