Questions:

Who is the bishop of the diocese where Biden lives?

And how is it that given Biden's staunch support of abortion, he STILL receives communion on a weekly basis?

excellent video! just goes to reaffirm one of the many reasons i became Catholic!

The light will shine on this darkest of issues.

There are many Catholics who are extremely POORLY catechized (either only had CCD or had really bad religion classes where the teacher didn't know anything or was extremely liberal and pooh poohed over the REAL teaching). Biden should NOT be presenting himself for Communion and HE KNOWS IT.

And Pelosi should read the Catechism, since she is not a *real* Catholic.

Hooray for the bishops who are speaking out and using the conduct of these obstinate and publicly disobedient "Catholic" politicians as opportunities to teach their faithful.

Fox's Neil Cavuto should be commended for his excellent interview. His question to the Archbishop about why the majority of Catholics have historically voted Democratic was especially enlightening. Devout Catholics have come to understand the importance of being anti-abortion as an important requirement of their faith and are switching their allegiance to the Republican party.

Ray,
The Archbishop called your party the "Democrat" Party. I certainly don't think he meant any disrespect, do you? It's just become a colloquial term, IMHO.

That's something I never understood about Catholic/religous/anti-abortion voters who voted Democratically... No matter HOW vehemently opposed to the war or the death penalty one is, you would think they would prioritize when it comes to taking lives, and put the innocent unborn first on the list of lives to save when casting a vote. I can understand being opposed to any death, but on my own personal list of who not to kill, babies in the womb are a little bit above convicted murderers and terrorists like the person who killed my husband's friend the other day.

xalisae,
You are one smart lady! Well said!

I am so sorry to hear of the death of your husband's friend.

Thank you, Janet. It's hard, but he'll be ok. I'm too scared to ask if it happened anywhere near him. I'm just hoping it didn't.

Wow X! Praise God he's not dead. I hope he makes a speedy recovery.

Is your hubby coping okay?

Nancy Pelosi was unequivocally right on this matter. Spot on, and moreover the majority of Catholics in polls seem to agree with her view on abortion.

I've blogged on this here: http://weblog.xanga.com/tonysidaway/672422873/nancy-pelosi-is-right-on-the-history-of-catholic-thinking-on-when-human-life-begins.html

To summarize it: there are a lot of people trying to rewrite history. Nancy has caught them at it and they're brazening it out. I think Catholic voters will think twice before following their bishops like sheep to vote for McCain.

Tony:

There's been a lot of opinions about slavery since 1776 too but what does that have to do what the Catholic beliefs today? And fortunately the church does not decide the doctrine based on polls. And no one is stopping anyone from joining a religion that does not consider abortion murder.

I'm no church historian, all I have are 12 years of Catholic schooling. But I am sure that the idea that abortion was not murder never came up for debate.

I get a kick out of watching religious denominations trying to vote on doctrines. I mean what is the point of joining a religion you don't agree with and then voting to change it. If you don't think Buddha or Jesus or Muhammed was right, do you join up and then vote on what the long gone leader should have taught? Seems pretty silly.

There are other places to socialize than churches, temples etc. Like, join Toastmasters or some other civic organization. That way you don't have to get up early on weekends.

Tony @ 5:09,

Nancy Pelosi was unequivocally right on this matter. Spot on, and moreover the majority of Catholics in polls seem to agree with her view on abortion.

I've blogged on this here: http://weblog.xanga.com/tonysidaway/672422873/nancy-pelosi-is-right-on-the-history-of-catholic-thinking-on-when-human-life-begins.html

To summarize it: there are a lot of people trying to rewrite history. Nancy has caught them at it and they're brazening it out. I think Catholic voters will think twice before following their bishops like sheep to vote for McCain.

Tony, according to your profile you have no religion and live in England. You need to do some studying on the Catholic Church, and stop taking polls on so-called Catholics in the U.S. seriously. Please take time to read this recent letter issued just recently by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which explains the confusion many people have over the Church's position on abortion in history and the present.

http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2008/08-120.shtml

hippie @ 7:36,

Amen! Seems dumb to me too.

"recent letter issued just recently"

Oops! I admit it, that was dumb too!

It's true that the Church teaches that the pastor or bishop must, of course, catechize the manifest, grave sinner before denying Holy Communion, just to be sure they are fully aware of what the Church teaches on the matter. If the public sinner ignores the warning and continues to come up for Communion, and because they are public in their sin, the Bishop must then announce publicly that he and his Ministers of the Eucharist [ordinary and extraordinary] will deny. This is to avoid scandal [because the sinner & his/her sin is public], and to avoid sacrilege to Eucharist.

It's true that the Church teaches that the pastor or bishop must, of course, catechize the manifest, grave sinner before denying Holy Communion, just to be sure they are fully aware of what the Church teaches on the matter. If the public sinner ignores the warning and continues to come up for Communion, and because they are public in their sin, the Bishop must then announce publicly that he and his Ministers of the Eucharist [ordinary and extraordinary] will deny. This is to avoid scandal [because the sinner & his/her sin is public], and to avoid sacrilege to Eucharist. Archbp. Chaput refuses to do what the Church tells him he must do at this point - He must deny Holy Communion. He won't. Out of 263 US active Bishops, only 15 said they will deny. We have a divided Conf. of US Bishops, on 15 are faithful. Barb Kralis

Why are not the bishops and priests who refuse to abide by the teachings of the church removed or punished by their superiors? Why is the church for the most part looking the other way and allowing followers and clergy alike to ignore the official doctrine on abortion if it suits them and not cleaning house? If we ever want to get anywhere with protecting the lives of the unborn, some people need to get tough. "Pro-life" Dems need to leave the party, just like pro-abortion "Catholics" need to leave the church. Nancy Pelosi going to mass is like David Duke attending a Black Panther rally.

The Catholic Church has ALWAYS opposed abortion AND BIRTH CONTROL. There are people who think they know what the Catholic Church teaches, but usually get their information from anti-Catholic sources like Jack Chick. Or they pick and choose what they please -- like Peloisi, Biden, Ted Kennedy and others.

More bishops should be speaking out. The Pope was very clear about this issue among others when he was here last Spring.

Hi Eileen,

There have already been 8 Bishops that have spoken out against Pelosi's comments:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08082805.html

Nancy Pelosi can, should, and must be excommunicated unless she issues a correction about her intentionally misleading statements (ie, lies) about the Catholic Church.

Yes, it's true that hundreds of years ago, Catholic theologians came up with theories about exactly when life begins based upon the science of their time. However, 150 years ago, science proved that life begins at fertilization. Since then, the Catholic Church has held that any abortion is homicide. THIS IS THE OFFICIAL POSITION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, AS WRITTEN IN THE CATECHISM. ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS LYING.

And ANY Catholic who is pro-choice is committing BLASPHEMY every time he or she goes to Mass and receives the Eucharist. St. Paul wrote that those who receive Communion unworthily EAT AND DRINK DAMNATION UPON THEMSELVES. Ignore his words at your peril!

To call yourself a Catholic and to cite St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas to justify your pro-choice position is not only bad theology, it's also bad SCIENCE. The Church's position on abortion is based on modern science. St. Augustine's opinions were based on ancient "science" from over a millennium ago.

Google 'Didache' and 'abortion' and you will find the proof that the Church has considered abortion sinful since her beginning.

"you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is begotten" makes it pretty clear.

I also would like to see the Catholic Church remove all the bishops who refuse to deny communion to pro-choice politicians.

That would leave 15 Bishops in the USA. Still too many but a good first step.

LizfromNebraska, poor knowledge of the Catechism is only a small part of your problem. The bigger part is that most Catholics in the USA don't give a sh*t about the Catechism when it comes to sex issues.

I consider sex to be sacred, and exclusively for the institution of marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN. The so called "catholics" you are referring to are Cafeteria catholics, not devout ones that actually follow the Catholic church. The cafeteria ones have been drawn into a secular, godless society and don't care.

Thank you, Janet. It's hard, but he'll be ok. I'm too scared to ask if it happened anywhere near him. I'm just hoping it didn't.

Posted by: xalisae at August 30, 2008 3:10 PM

xalisae: I hope your husband is safe and doing ok. I'm sorry to hear about his friend.

somg wrote: I also would like to see the Catholic Church remove all the bishops who refuse to deny communion to pro-choice politicians.

This statement is stupid beyond belief and merits no more comment since it shows a profound misunderstanding of the Catholic faith.

Why are not the bishops and priests who refuse to abide by the teachings of the church removed or punished by their superiors? Why is the church for the most part looking the other way and allowing followers and clergy alike to ignore the official doctrine on abortion if it suits them and not cleaning house?

It's very difficult to remove a bishop from his seat. Instead the Church is carefully selecting the next replacements. Some of these men have been identified in the seminary (I think) and if they develop spiritually and theologically as they should they will be chosen. The auxillary bishop of my diocese was driving down a country road when the call came from Rome! He told me that the Vatican (unbeknownst to him) had been interviewing friends and fellow priests for months before he was chosen. His positions on key social issues was investigated thoroughly. The Archbishop of Toronto, Tom Collins is a wonderful man. He was my parish priest when I was a teen. He is a brilliant scholar, a quiet unassuming man but rock solid. As a young person, I found his homilies riveting - there was meat to them!

When I read SoMG's posts, among others, it only brings to mind what President Bush had said in an address to those present at a March For Life. He talked about what had been done with legislation but he also emphasized the need to pray for the change of hearts -- that will ultimately bring the end of abortion.

I think its funny that people complain when others have recieved communion. To goto communion one must be free from sin - aka having confessed their sin. How often do these people goto communion? And how long did they spend online, racking up their sin before going to confession.

Yo La,
My particular Church has Confessions scheduled throughout the week, and even during some masses. Some people go once a week, some once a month.... I believe I heard that Pope John Paul II used to go every day.

From: http://www.usccb.org/

USCCB corrects Pelosi on Church teachings on abortion

USCCB responds to House Speaker Pelosi’s misrepresentation of Church teaching against abortion

Cardinal Justin F. Rigali, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Pro-Life Activities, and Bishop William E. Lori, chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine, have issued the following statement:

In the course of a “Meet the Press” interview on abortion and other public issues on August 24, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi misrepresented the history and nature of the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church against abortion.

In fact, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law." (No. 2271)

In the Middle Ages, uninformed and inadequate theories about embryology led some theologians to speculate that specifically human life capable of receiving an immortal soul may not exist until a few weeks into pregnancy. While in canon law these theories led to a distinction in penalties between very early and later abortions, the Church’s moral teaching never justified or permitted abortion at any stage of development.

These mistaken biological theories became obsolete over 150 years ago when scientists discovered that a new human individual comes into being from the union of sperm and egg at fertilization. In keeping with this modern understanding, the Church teaches that from the time of conception (fertilization), each member of the human species must be given the full respect due to a human person, beginning with respect for the fundamental right to life.

More information on the Church's teaching on this issue can be found in our brochure "The Catholic Church is a Pro-Life Church". http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/abortion/teaching.shtml

Statement on Responsibilities of Catholics in Public Life
http://www.usccb.org/catholicspubliclife.shtml

Jasper @ 10:39,

Forgive me if I duplicated any of the material in your links. I didn't see your post!

Oh, no problem Janet, thanks for the info :)

Don't you think it's cute that SoMG pretends to know what Catholics think even when confronted with proof of the opposite on this blog?

My Pastor talked about the USCCB's Response to Pelosi's Misrepresentation of Church Teachings on Abortion, today at Mass!
The congregation applauded!!! God bless our priests!

The heart of the matter is simple: the Church is guided and directed by the Holy Spirit. This is the fundamental difference between a world view that is Catholic, Orthodox and Apostolic verses one that is not.

The command "turn the other cheek" was spoken in the first person singular--if you wrong me, I am bound to forgive you. But what if your wrongful act distorts or destroys the image and likeness of God in others? Then I am duty bound to protect the innocent.

There are two constants in politics; power and corruption. When a person realizes this, then one can easily break down their choice of candidate upon the altar of morality. A catholic's first obligation upon that altar is the protection of life--if a presidential candidate can defend those who cannot defend themselves, then it is logical to predict that the candidate who is a public defender of life can lead the military and care for his or her country. Of the Names of God "Trinity" is the most descriptive and the most mysterious. We know that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We know that of the operations of God, His Holy Spirit is the Giver of Life who is everywhere and fills all things.

That said, those who oppose, promote, or willfully sanction that which is not a product of Church Teaching are not in accord with the Will of the Holy Spirit--which is blasphemy--and we all know what happens to those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:22-30 & Matthew 12:22-32).

As for Catholics who have received the dignity of the Life Giving Sacraments of Baptism, Holy Eucharist, Chrismation yet choose to live "according to their own conscience;" I think it will be as St. John Climacus said in the 6th century: "If all who are baptized are not saved, then I will pass in silence over what follows."

The confusion rests in his name, you know; Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy have spent so much time promoting socialist ideals and genuflecting in mosques that they think that O'bama and O'prah are good Irish catholics.

The writings of St. Augustine and other early Church fathers, which Nancy Pelosi referred to were addressing the issue of when the body is infused with the soul. It had more to do with working out an understanding of the Blessed Mother's Immaculate Conception than when human life begins.

As Quo Vadis points out, from the time of the Apostles, abortion at any point in pregnancy has been considered a grave sin.

Jasper, thank you for the lifesite news link!