Morphing the story from the Morning After Pill to just the Pill


I smelled a rat when I read Matthew Balan's NewsBusters.com story....

It was bad enough. Balan outted ABC News for a lopsided segment on pharmacists' rights to refuse to fill prescriptions for hormonal contraception.

Here's where I sniffed something stinky, quoting Balan:

[ABC correspondent Gigi] Stone introduced the first woman, Megan Kelly, as a "married mother." Several years ago, as Stone described, Kelly "tried to fill her monthly birth control pills [when] a pharmacist refused."

That incident occurred in IL, and I knew the controversy here was not about pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions simply for birth control pills but for the morning-after pill.

Sure enough, I googled "Megan Kelly" and easily found this October 2005 ABC News article:

But last July, Kelly went to a pharmacy to pick up Plan B, emergency contraception that can be taken after unprotected sex. Her doctor had prescribed it as a precaution because she had missed three regular birth control pills. Plan B is legal - but Kelly's pharmacist refused to fill the prescription on moral grounds....

"The pharmacist actually came up to me and said 'I'm sorry I personally don't believe in this,'" said Kelly. "'I'm not able to fill this prescription.' And I just said to her, 'this is your job you need to get my prescription.' And she said, 'I won't.'"

What or who prompted ABC and Stone to run this story on World News in the first place? Then Stone couldn't even research her own company's archives? Or did she ignore inconvenient truths? My cursory search also revealed Kelly is on the speaking circuit in conjunction with Planned Parenthood.

Balan was right about this: "[Stone] later reported in a condescending tone about how the family of the pharmacist has nine children."

That's actually true. Watch the video.


Comments:

Nothing wrong with nine children.

Gigi shouldn't have just stopped it there. She could have balanced the piece with the pharmacist explaining his stance, but the nine-children ending makes it sound like his was the bigger transgression.

Posted by: carder at August 11, 2008 5:48 PM


Of course the pharmacist has the bigger transgression! It's reprehensible to have nine children don't cha know?

The Pill, Plan B, it's all the same to ABC. What's a little "spin" really anyway?

Posted by: Kristen at August 11, 2008 6:13 PM


Pot meet kettle.

Do a little more googling Jill. You'll see that Megan Kelly ran out of her regular BC pills over a holiday weekend, and her doctor wrote her a prescription for BOTH regular BC and Plan B in addition, because she had missed several days of pills.

The pharmacist refused to fill BOTH prescriptions.

Posted by: Hilarious at August 11, 2008 7:02 PM


ABC and spin? A South Dakota ABC affiliate actually called prolifers "anti-choice forces"!

When I sent an email chewing out the News Director, he replied that well, only one side was having a rally and they were reporting on it -- and this when I had already pointed out that the issue was calling prolifers "anti-choice forces", not that he was reporting that one side was having an event.

I scolded him again, and got yet another snotty response telling me I'd "won the semantics war" and that he'd changed the web site from "anti-choice" to "anti-abortion". Which is still bias, but at least not as glaring.

Since when is it okay for a journalist to refer to one side of an issue using the pejorative term the other side uses to insult them? Does he report on anti-homosexual activists, saying that they're holding an event to protest "faggots" and "sodomites"? If antisemites were having a rally, would he refer to a Jewish organization as "kikes"?

He can't even see how inexcusably unprofessional he's being.

If you want I can give you the screen capture of "anti-choice forces".

Posted by: Christina at August 11, 2008 7:04 PM


"Since when is it okay for a journalist to refer to one side of an issue using the pejorative term the other side uses to insult them?"

Doesn't Jill do this? "pro-aborts"

Posted by: Hal at August 11, 2008 7:10 PM


Hal, Jill is a blogger, not a professional journalist working for a network affiliate. Jill is openly advocating for one side. This clown at ABC is supposed to be simply reporting the news, not advocating for one side or the other.

Posted by: Christina at August 11, 2008 7:23 PM


Good for the pharmacist at Osco Drug in St. Charles, IL for standing up for what she believes in. This Megan Kelly had about 10 other pharmacies in her general area that she could have visited, but she's whining about one.

Another issue in IL, Gov. Rod Blagojevich and Attorney General Lisa Madigan need to stand up for what's moral and not what's politically expedient. Their support of abortion is a disgrace to the state of Illinois. We are still waiting for enforcement of the Parent Notification Law. Will it ever happen? Parents beware. Your girls can get abortions without your being notified.

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 7:52 PM


Hilarious, 7:02p: Read that. The pharmacist refused to fill the MAP prescription, that was the issue.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at August 11, 2008 8:19 PM


Good for the pharmacist at Osco Drug in St. Charles, IL for standing up for what she believes in. This Megan Kelly had about 10 other pharmacies in her general area that she could have visited, but she's whining about one.

Another issue in IL, Gov. Rod Blagojevich and Attorney General Lisa Madigan need to stand up for what's moral and not what's politically expedient. Their support of abortion is a disgrace to the state of Illinois. We are still waiting for enforcement of the Parent Notification Law. Will it ever happen? Parents beware. Your girls can get abortions without your being notified.

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 7:52 PM
.................................

If your daughter would not consult you before having an abortion, there is something wrong with your relationship that laws can't fix.

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 8:21 PM


I wonder if we can use the same logic – that the government can force a business to sell certain items – to force Planned Parenthood to sell and/or distribute pro-life and pro-baby material. After all, what’s good for the goose ….. Isn’t that why we have the equal protection clause of the constitution ….

Posted by: Charles at August 11, 2008 8:26 PM


If your daughter would not consult you before having an abortion, there is something wrong with your relationship that laws can't fix.

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 8:21 PM

Minors don't have the mental capacity/maturity to make such important choices on their own. There's a reason they have a voting age requirements, marriage age requirements, drinking age, insurance rate differences for younger drivers,etc... If the parent relationship is bad enough, another adult should be contacted. Parents have a responsibility to raise and protect their children. A government authority should not be able to interfere with it.

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 8:34 PM


Minors don't have the mental capacity/maturity to make such important choices on their own. There's a reason they have a voting age requirements, marriage age requirements, drinking age, insurance rate differences for younger drivers,etc... If the parent relationship is bad enough, another adult should be contacted. Parents have a responsibility to raise and protect their children. A government authority should not be able to interfere with it.

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 8:34 PM
............................................

Mandating parental notification is government interference. Just as passing a law prohibiting parental contact with a pregnant minor would be government interference. I just think it pathetic that enough parents have so little trust in their children that such a law would be passed to begin with. Seems to me that this law panders to lazy parents using the government to do what they can't be bothered to do. Communicate with their kids.

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 8:54 PM


I went to school with a boy who eventually had nine kids in his family (the youngest is I think 16 by now, the oldest is around 35 I think). The nine includes one set of twins. Nothing wrong with a large family -- lots of love to spread around. ;)

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at August 11, 2008 8:55 PM


I went to school with a boy who eventually had nine kids in his family (the youngest is I think 16 by now, the oldest is around 35 I think). The nine includes one set of twins. Nothing wrong with a large family -- lots of love to spread around. ;)

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at August 11, 2008 8:55 PM
...............................

My dad wanted a big family. He built a house with 5 bedrooms. As it turned out only 3 of mom's 9 pregnancies produced children.

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 9:08 PM


You can watch the whole video clip of this news story at CrankyCatholic.

Posted by: Cranky Catholic at August 11, 2008 9:43 PM


Sally @ 8:54, Seems to me that this law panders to lazy parents using the government to do what they can't be bothered to do. Communicate with their kids.

Did you tell your parents everything you did when you were young? If you did, you certainly weren't the norm. ("Hey Mom, I got drunk last night". "Hey Mom, I stole an iPod today". "Hey, Dad, I'm pregnant!")
Most kids teens spend their waking hours trying to hide their mischief from their parents. Do you blame this on the parents?

` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `
Sally @ 9:08, My dad wanted a big family. He built a house with 5 bedrooms. As it turned out only 3 of mom's 9 pregnancies produced children.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 9:49 PM


"Hal, Jill is a blogger, not a professional journalist......."
Posted by: Christina at August 11, 2008 7:23 PM

Then could you just inform Jill of that, please?

And since the demise of the Fairness Doctrine...well, you get what you lobby for.

Posted by: phylosopher at August 11, 2008 9:54 PM


Jill, so you mean to quote this as a NewsBUSTERS story instead of NewsMax?

Posted by: Cranky Catholic at August 11, 2008 10:19 PM


Sally @ 8:54, Seems to me that this law panders to lazy parents using the government to do what they can't be bothered to do. Communicate with their kids.

Did you tell your parents everything you did when you were young? If you did, you certainly weren't the norm. ("Hey Mom, I got drunk last night". "Hey Mom, I stole an iPod today". "Hey, Dad, I'm pregnant!")
Most kids teens spend their waking hours trying to hide their mischief from their parents. Do you blame this on the parents?

` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `
Sally @ 9:08, My dad wanted a big family. He built a house with 5 bedrooms. As it turned out only 3 of mom's 9 pregnancies produced children.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 9:49 PM
.......................

There were no IPods when I was a kid. My parents didn't rely on the government to raise their children. Neither did I. If my kids can't discuss absolutely anything with me, I'm doing something wrong and it isn't the government's job to fix it. You bith 'em, you parent 'em.


Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 10:33 PM


Sally,
It's good to see you strong in your convictions! I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Quick question: How would you feel if your (hypothetical) daughter came up to you and announced 5 years after the fact that she had had an abortion without your knowledge?

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 10:37 PM


Cranky,
I love the self-control "ad" you have on your site!

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 10:48 PM


I wonder if we can use the same logic – that the government can force a business to sell certain items – to force Planned Parenthood to sell and/or distribute pro-life and pro-baby material. After all, what’s good for the goose ….. Isn’t that why we have the equal protection clause of the constitution ….

Posted by: Charles at August 11, 2008 8:26 PM

Yes. Make PP sell diapers at government subsidized prices. Lol.

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 10:49 PM


Janet, there's just too few kids graduating with a self-control attitude.

Posted by: Cranky Catholic at August 11, 2008 10:52 PM


Sally,
It's good to see you strong in your convictions! I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Quick question: How would you feel if your (hypothetical) daughter came up to you and announced 5 years after the fact that she had had an abortion without your knowledge?

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 10:37 PM
.......................................

My daughter is 31 and I would ask her why she couldn't talk to me about it at the time. I surely would have had to have been in a coma or something. My kids trust me to never judge them, only guide them. I'm not a high drama mama.
Janet, do you not trust your parenting abilities?

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 10:54 PM


Yes. Make PP sell diapers at government subsidized prices. Lol.

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 10:49 PM
..........................

Do you think that having babies should entitle one to disposable diapers? Perhaps CPCs should be forced to provide those diapers for free. Along with a nanny and a wet nurse.

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 11:00 PM


I think that's a newsbusters, not a newsmax link. Are the two connected?

News interviewer, Gigi Stone, stands out as being particularly transparent. She's been wandering around the pharmacists' conscience issue for a bit, and YES, she waded into her pool of pharmacist interviewees without any preparation. In other words, she was making her calls before she bothered to read background information which had been provided for her, and was not embarrassed to admit this in our conversation.
The result of her work comes as absolutely no surprise.
As usual, Jill sniffs out the truth.

How about that-- NINE kids!! Way to go, Koelzers! & God bless! I expect those kids will be raised to know what's most important.

Posted by: KB at August 11, 2008 11:04 PM


Janet, there's just too few kids graduating with a self-control attitude.

Posted by: Cranky Catholic at August 11, 2008 10:52 PM
...............................

And that would be who's fault? Planned parenthood? The government?

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 11:09 PM


Charles, PP already does distribute pro-life, pro-baby material.

Posted by: SoMG at August 11, 2008 11:24 PM


My daughter is 31 and I would ask her why she couldn't talk to me about it at the time. I surely would have had to have been in a coma or something. My kids trust me to never judge them, only guide them. I'm not a high drama mama.
Janet, do you not trust your parenting abilities?

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 10:54 PM

Interesting question! I don't distrust myself at all. I guess it's many of the teens themselves I don't trust. I never looked at this issue from my perspective as a parent, because I know with 99.99% certainty that my daughter will save herself for marriage. It's how I was raised and how I am raising her. Abortion will never be an option in her mind. I wouldn't disown her if she came to me with an unplanned pregnancy, but I would be disappointed and support her. Still no abortion option! (Take a minute to laugh if I sound crazy and unrealistic...I don't mind.)

The social pressure for young girls and boys to become sexually active in their teens is extremely high. I think there are too many parents who neglect their duties. They don't tell their kids the the advantages of waiting until marriage to have sex and don't teach their children that abortion is wrong and kills a baby. So when an unplanned pregnancy happens, many girls have no idea there are other options. I think parental notification can be an important deterrent to sexual activity as well. It's late, I'm tired, so I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself the way I want to.. Good talking to you, Sally. Have a good night!

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 11:27 PM


I wonder if we can use the same logic – that the government can force a business to sell certain items – to force Planned Parenthood to sell and/or distribute pro-life and pro-baby material. After all, what’s good for the goose ….. Isn’t that why we have the equal protection clause of the constitution ….

Posted by: Charles at August 11, 2008 8:26 PM

Yes. Make PP sell diapers at government subsidized prices. Lol.

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 10:49 PM
..........................

Do you think that having babies should entitle one to disposable diapers? Perhaps CPCs should be forced to provide those diapers for free. Along with a nanny and a wet nurse.

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 11:00 PM

Diapers are the "pro-life version" of government subsidized (or low-cost, whatever you want to call it) birth control that PP sells. Just a response to Charles. I should have issued a *sarcasm* alert. Sorry.

########

Charles, PP already does distribute pro-life, pro-baby material.

Posted by: SoMG at August 11, 2008 11:24 PM

Hi SoMG. I know of one PP that refused to allow pro-life resources from an outside source into their building. They took it away from a woman as she entered the building. How pro-life is that?

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 11:38 PM


Here's a question: what if Bush's initiative protecting health-care-workers of conscience passes, and then a pro-choice pharmacy worker says it's against his religion to work for a pharmacy which DOESN'T dispense all forms of bc, and sues for "reasonable accomodation"? Will he be able to force the pharmacy to sell the morning-after pill?

Posted by: SoMG at August 12, 2008 12:08 AM


Here's a question: what if Bush's initiative protecting health-care-workers of conscience passes, and then a pro-choice pharmacy worker says it's against his religion to work for a pharmacy which DOESN'T dispense all forms of bc, and sues for "reasonable accomodation"? Will he be able to force the pharmacy to sell the morning-after pill?

Posted by: SoMG at August 12, 2008 12:08 AM

No. The owner's rights trump his. You don't get a job at Burger King if you want to sell Big Macs.

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 12:19 AM


Janet, PP disallowing RTL propaganda from outside inside their facility is neither pro-choice nor right-to-life. PP is a medical facility and is legally responsible for any info clients get inside PP. If someone leaves printed lies in PP's bathroom, and a client picks it up, PP could be liable.

And it's just a fact that they distribute pro-life, pro-baby material. Also pro-abstinance material.

Regarding your daughter, you should know that children of parents who are DEAD SURE their children are not sexually active are in fact just as likely to engage in sexual activity as children of parents who are not so sure.

In other words, the fact that you are 99.99% sure your daughter is/will be chaste does not make it any more likely to be true than if you were only 30% sure.

Would you disown her if she told you she'd already had an abortion? Would you tell her she is a murderer?

Posted by: SoMG at August 12, 2008 12:20 AM


Janet, similarly, you shouldn't get a job as a pharmacist if you don't want to sell bc.

Posted by: SoMG at August 12, 2008 12:21 AM


My daughter is 31 and I would ask her why she couldn't talk to me about it at the time. I surely would have had to have been in a coma or something. My kids trust me to never judge them, only guide them. I'm not a high drama mama.
Janet, do you not trust your parenting abilities?

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 10:54 PM

Interesting question! I don't distrust myself at all. I guess it's many of the teens themselves I don't trust. I never looked at this issue from my perspective as a parent, because I know with 99.99% certainty that my daughter will save herself for marriage. It's how I was raised and how I am raising her. Abortion will never be an option in her mind. I wouldn't disown her if she came to me with an unplanned pregnancy, but I would be disappointed and support her. Still no abortion option! (Take a minute to laugh if I sound crazy and unrealistic...I don't mind.)

The social pressure for young girls and boys to become sexually active in their teens is extremely high. I think there are too many parents who neglect their duties. They don't tell their kids the the advantages of waiting until marriage to have sex and don't teach their children that abortion is wrong and kills a baby. So when an unplanned pregnancy happens, many girls have no idea there are other options. I think parental notification can be an important deterrent to sexual activity as well. It's late, I'm tired, so I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself the way I want to.. Good talking to you, Sally. Have a good night!


Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 11:27 PM
.............................................

It's earlier here and I'm a night owl. I'm sure you'll catch me tomorrow if you like.
My daughter was 29 when she got married. I never expressed to her that she should forgo sexual experience until she was married. It is a natural part of our beings and with her ambitions she certainly didn't need to be obsessed with sex the way one needs to be to completely cut oneself off from that need.
Do your children have ambitions, goals or dreams beyond getting married and having children Janet?

Posted by: Sally at August 12, 2008 12:23 AM


Hi SoMG. I know of one PP that refused to allow pro-life resources from an outside source into their building. They took it away from a woman as she entered the building. How pro-life is that?

Posted by: Janet at August 11, 2008 11:38 PM
.............................

What did that resource consist of? A nun tucked under her arm?
Sarcasm alert Janet.

Posted by: Sally at August 12, 2008 12:30 AM


Sally,
I need to go to sleep! Just a few answers.....

The nun.. Hmmm...we'd probably have fewer abortions if a nun accompanied every person into PP. :)

It is a natural part of our beings and with her ambitions she certainly didn't need to be obsessed with sex the way one needs to be to completely cut oneself off from that need.

I don't think living in chastity and purity results in an obsession about sex. That life can be fulfilling as well. It's not for everyone, but not impossible for some.

Do your children have ambitions, goals or dreams beyond getting married and having children Janet?

I think it's important to have life experience, working, traveling, and for a woman to be able to support herself independently before getting married. My daughter doesn't want to wait as long as I did to have children, because she doesn't want to be an "old" mom. :) I will let her make her own path, follow her own dreams, as she wishes. She's still young, so there's much time for her to figure that out. Right now she loves sports. The more the better! I'm trying to get her interested in the piano to round out her interests a bit.

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 12:53 AM


Janet, you wrote: " I wouldn't disown [my daughter] if she came to me with an unplanned pregnancy, but I would be disappointed and support her. Still no abortion option! "

What would you do if she told you she'd already had an abortion?

Posted by: SoMG at August 12, 2008 1:22 AM


Also, what measures would you take to prevent her from having one?

Posted by: SoMG at August 12, 2008 1:25 AM


If my daughter came to me and said she had an abortion(or for that matter, one of my sons came and told me he brought his girlfriend for one)I would wrap her up in my arms and lead her through the healing journey of abortion recovery. I know a little bit about that. :)

Posted by: Carla at August 12, 2008 8:15 AM


From the video, when Megan said:

"...very, very shocking, and very unsettling, and one of those moments where, you know, as like a female, you're not sure if you want to cry, if you want to get really mad..."

...I couldn't help but call to mind Example #101 of Stuff White People Like—Being Offended:

White people also get excited at the opportunity to be offended at things that are sexist and/or homophobic. Both cases offering ample opportunities for lectures, complaints, graduate classes, lengthy discussions and workshops.
Posted by: John Jansen at August 12, 2008 8:56 AM


Carla,

"If my daughter came to me and said she had an abortion(or for that matter, one of my sons came and told me he brought his girlfriend for one)I would wrap her up in my arms and lead her through the healing journey of abortion recovery. I know a little bit about that. :)"

While I don't doubt your sincerity, you have failed to realize that not everyone either suffers from or comes to regret their involvement with abortion.

Additionally, simply because you harbor regrets does not mean that there is anything inherently wrong with the act of procuring an abortion itself. The logic behind this assertion is faulty--regret is not a sufficient basis to universally condemn an act.

Posted by: A. at August 12, 2008 9:56 AM


Dear A,
I do not fail to realize anything about abortion, nor do I assume that all women regret their abortions. I answered in regards to a specific incidence. Assuming one of my children has or is involved with abortion, I would love them unconditionally and help them heal.

I have lived through the horror of abortion. I spent the weekend with women involved in Operation Outcry. We filmed more stories of abortion regret for the show Faces of Abortion.
Maybe you can have a look see.
http://www.afa.net/womansrights/index.html

My opinion of abortion comes through living it.I am not alone in condemning the killing of a child. It is your opinion that my story has no validity and must be dismissed. So be it.

Posted by: Carla at August 12, 2008 10:15 AM


Carla, of course your story has validity. I haven't seen anyone dismiss it.

The "love thelm unconditionally" part is wonderful, the "help them heal" part assume they need some healing, which may or MAY NOT be true. That's where people are challanging you. If your daughter or mine comes to us and says they had an abortion, I think we need to see if they're comfortable with it or not, before we "lead her through the healing journey of abortion recovery."

Posted by: Hal at August 12, 2008 10:27 AM


Carla,

I do not dispute that your story has validity--for you. What I dispute is that story or any woman's story should be sufficient to declare a medical procedure universally wrong or harmful.

The regrets of one should not define the choice of another.

Posted by: A. at August 12, 2008 10:27 AM


Has it ever occurred to you that some people cannot afford to have nine children?

Posted by: Jess at August 12, 2008 10:44 AM


Not everyone needs to have a PS3, an XBox and luxury cars, either, Jess. That boy that I went to school with grew up in a house where most of the kids shared a room, they didn't have a girl until I was in the 3rd grade (can't remember when their first girl was finally born -- they have a total of two girls in the family). Just want to point out that not everyone NEEDS those luxuries. Those families read or play board games together. They don't go to Disney World every year or take trips to Europe. Or own a Mercedes.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at August 12, 2008 10:51 AM


Dear Hal and A,
I know my own children better than anyone. Like yourself. They know my story, they know I work tirelessly with women who regret their abortions. Believe me, they know. Before my daughter would have an abortion, she would have had unprotected sex, found out she was pregnant, made an appt. and had an abortion, all without telling me. Don't see that happening, but ok. What would be her purpose in telling me she had an abortion? As a post abortive mom, don't you think she would KNOW where I stand? I can't help but laugh that you think I am assuming what I know to be true for myself and my own flesh and blood. Tired of forecasting the worst case scenarios on this blog.

Operation Outcry collects the testimonies of women and men and uses them to further prolife legislation. We have the largest body of legally admissable evidence that abortion hurts in the world. My story has been used in prolife legislation in several states. Valid enough for the courts but not for you.

I am hardly talking about the regrets of just lil ol me.

We will never agree. Fine with me.

Posted by: Carla at August 12, 2008 10:53 AM


Let me rephrase.

We have the largest body of legally admissable evidence in the world, that abortion hurts women.

http://www.operationoutcry.org

Posted by: Carla at August 12, 2008 10:59 AM



The regrets of one should not define the choice of another.

Posted by: A. at August 12, 2008 10:27 AM

Define? You are right, but taken into consideration? Definitely.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

If my daughter came to me and said she had an abortion(or for that matter, one of my sons came and told me he brought his girlfriend for one)I would wrap her up in my arms and lead her through the healing journey of abortion recovery. I know a little bit about that. :)

Posted by: Carla at August 12, 2008 8:15 AM

Beautiful. I wasn't sure how to answer the question, but your comment was perfect. I would hope I could be just like you!

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 11:08 AM


Valid enough for the courts but not for you."

It's valid for what it is. It's not a valid reason to deny other women the right to make their own decisions on this issue. We don't need more "nanny state" regulations. A woman who doesn't want an abortion shouldn't have one (and shouldn't be pressured) a woman who does want one should be allowed. If she later has regrets, that's life.

I regret some decisions I made in my life, but I sure as heck wouldn't have wanted my right to make those decisions taken away from me.

That said, the "abortion hurts women" argument is perfectly legitimate (valid) in your efforts to convince individual women not to choose abortion. It just not, in my opinion, a valid reason to outlaw abortion.

"abortion is murder" is the argument you want if you want to outlaw abortion. That argument fails, however, because it's not true.


Posted by: Hal at August 12, 2008 11:12 AM


Has it ever occurred to you that some people cannot afford to have nine children?

Posted by: Jess at August 12, 2008 10:44 AM

Of course. Parents who are open to life put their trust in God to provide what they need. What they think they need, and what they actually do need are often quite different. You have to have a sense of humor to have a large family as well. My parents said they were done after having six kids because there were only eight hot dog buns in a package.

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 11:14 AM


Hi Janet!!

I actually wasn't even going to comment but then did and kinda opened up the usual can o' worms. I'm tired. :/

Spent the weekend taping abortion stories with women from my state...the cameraman actually had to stop and have a good cry and then continue. Hard stories to bear.

Posted by: Carla at August 12, 2008 11:14 AM


Carla,
How difficult that must have been. God bless you for all you do. I hope you can take a few minutes for yourself today. A picnic lunch in the backyard, or something... :) Let the kids prepare the meal and you provide the lemonade?

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 11:18 AM


It does take some time to regroup.

It's raining cats and dogs outside but an inside picnic is always a hit. :)

God Bless you, Janet.

Posted by: Carla at August 12, 2008 11:21 AM


"If your daughter would not consult you before having an abortion, there is something wrong with your relationship that laws can't fix."

That's a laugh. I don't care what the relationship is like between a daughter and her parents, a teenage pregnancy is something that a kid would CERTAINLY want to hide from her parents if she can get rid of it discretely and privately. I get along great with my parents - they really respect what I've done with my life so far. IN FACT, that's why, if I ever got a girl pregnant, I would be VERY tempted to keep it from them. I'll bet there are women out there that feel the same way about their parents. Opposition to parental notification just make abortion that much more sinisterly attractive to young people.

Posted by: Alex at August 12, 2008 11:34 AM


I get along great with my parents - they really respect what I've done with my life so far. IN FACT, that's why, if I ever got a girl pregnant, I would be VERY tempted to keep it from them.

This is a valid point. It's not always the kids who are scared of their parents who will avoid telling them -- sometimes it's the kids who are just so used to not screwing up.

I know that when I was in high school I got lyme disease, but I didn't know it was lyme at first. I made it through most of my mid-terms okay but got really ill during my math exam. I had to throw up but wasn't allowed to leave unless I turned in my exam. So I hastily scribbled what I hoped could pass for partial credit on the remaining portion of the test, and handed it in. I ended up failing, which -- despite my A average to that point -- got me moved to a lower-level math class for the rest of the year. ANYWAY my point is that I was so, so, so extremely terrified to tell my parents about it. Even though, in retrospect, I didn't even do anything wrong. I begged the principal to just let me switch the course on my own, without notifying my parents. I was just so used to being the straight-A student that I was desperate to keep from disappointing them.

They weren't disappointed in me, though. They were very supportive, and I ended up getting tested for lyme disease. My mom bought me a little stuffed dog with its leg in a cast, which she said was to remind me that even the cutest, sweetest little things get hurt, and your reaction is to hug them, not get angry them.

That's my story about me being a stupid teenager. I remember I actually contemplated jumping in front of a moving car, just to avoid having my parents know how much I'd messed up. But them knowing was the best thing for me, in the end.

Posted by: Alexandra at August 12, 2008 11:55 AM


Mandating parental notification is government interference.

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 8:54 PM

THAT'S the funniest thing I've read today! The dems are for big government, the more the better according to them. They want to be involved in EVERYTHING. Unless, of course, it means someone might not be able to get an abortion.

Posted by: Kristen at August 12, 2008 11:56 AM


Kristen, you're thinking so "20th Century." Since Bush, the Repubs are the party of big government, and the Democrats are the party of Freedom and the Constitution.

Posted by: Hal at August 12, 2008 12:19 PM


Democrats are for freedom with these exceptions: if you're a child in the womb (especially if you MIGHT have a birth defect), a Christian, or a disabled adult who needs nourishment to survive.


Posted by: LizFromNebraska at August 12, 2008 1:11 PM


Alexandra, how's your Lyme disease now? I have a friend who didn't get treatment in time and now has chronic LD. I hope you were able to get help before that happened!

Posted by: lauren at August 12, 2008 2:12 PM


Alex...EXACTLY!

I would venture to guess that a huge percentage of girls who have abortions without telling there parents are "good girls" who are afraid that their parents will be disappointed in them/disown them.

Posted by: lauren at August 12, 2008 2:14 PM


Oh, I'm fine, Lauren, don't worry! For a while we lived in an area where lyme disease was really common. So once I told someone how crummy I was feeling, they pretty much immediately knew what it was.

And I'm pretty glad I didn't throw myself in front of a car just because of a math exam. So I guess it all worked out for the best!

But yeah, I think that for a lot of teenagers, the first time you really do something disappointing is a scary thing. If you go through it and come out with a stronger relationship, that is a really valuable lesson. But if your parents don't handle it well, or if you are able to just squirrel away your screw-ups in secret, then you don't ever really know, concretely, that there's nothing you can do that will make your parents stop loving you. You know that that's what they SAY, but there's nothing like feeling absolutely wretched and ashamed, and having someone know about it and hug you anyway, to make you really understand.

Posted by: Alexandra at August 12, 2008 2:47 PM


Posted by: Hal at August 12, 2008 12:19 PM

Nope, dems have always and will always be big government. In any low level government class you take that's the first thing they teach you. I'm too tired to go into it anymore than that but you already know what I'm going to say anyway.

Sorry, pesky kids up and down our street at 3:00 this AM. I'm sooo tired!

Posted by: Kristen at August 12, 2008 4:51 PM


Mandating parental notification is government interference.

Posted by: Sally at August 11, 2008 8:54 PM

THAT'S the funniest thing I've read today! The dems are for big government, the more the better according to them. They want to be involved in EVERYTHING. Unless, of course, it means someone might not be able to get an abortion.

Posted by: Kristen at August 12, 2008 11:56 AM
........................................

What's funny is your assumption that I am a democrat. I'm rather libertarian politically. What is your excuse for supporting government interference in parental concerns Kristen?

Posted by: Sally at August 12, 2008 9:16 PM


"Not everyone needs to have a PS3, an XBox and luxury cars, either, Jess. That boy that I went to school with grew up in a house where most of the kids shared a room, they didn't have a girl until I was in the 3rd grade (can't remember when their first girl was finally born -- they have a total of two girls in the family). Just want to point out that not everyone NEEDS those luxuries. Those families read or play board games together. They don't go to Disney World every year or take trips to Europe. Or own a Mercedes."

Are you really that nieve Liz? You think everyone has all those things and if they just saved a little they could afford to have as many children as they want? Working with children who were basically being supported by the state I saw kids whose parents couldn't afford to buy them diapers half the time. Even if you have two parents working full time at minimum wage jobs (which is impossible if they have children who are too young to take care of themselves, daycare would take up a whole salary) they would barely make enough to rent a two room apartment. You really think they would be able to pay for food, clothing, medical bills, school supplies for nine kids?

Posted by: Jess at August 12, 2008 9:22 PM


*naive
Sorry.

Posted by: Jess at August 12, 2008 9:24 PM


Liz, your husband or father pays all your bills doesn't he?

Posted by: Jess at August 12, 2008 9:28 PM


Carla and Janet, what if your daughter had had an abortion and didn't care or feel guilty or need healing or anything like that?

Also, neither of you answered, what measures would you take to prevent her from getting an abortion if she told you she was pregnant and going to?

Posted by: SoMG at August 12, 2008 9:44 PM


"If your daughter would not consult you before having an abortion, there is something wrong with your relationship that laws can't fix."

That's a laugh. I don't care what the relationship is like between a daughter and her parents, a teenage pregnancy is something that a kid would CERTAINLY want to hide from her parents if she can get rid of it discretely and privately. I get along great with my parents - they really respect what I've done with my life so far. IN FACT, that's why, if I ever got a girl pregnant, I would be VERY tempted to keep it from them. I'll bet there are women out there that feel the same way about their parents. Opposition to parental notification just make abortion that much more sinisterly attractive to young people.

Posted by: Alex at August 12, 2008 11:34 AM
............................

You have made my point. You don't trust your parents not to withdraw love and support if you should do something to dissapoint them. It isn't the government's fault that you don't trust your parents.

Posted by: Sally at August 12, 2008 10:01 PM


SoMG@ 9:44,
1) I'd deal with it if and when it came up. I probably would pray, pray and pray.

2) More prayer. I'd bring her and the father of the baby to talk to a priest and a good pro-life doctor.

3) Oh, it won't happen because she know better. I keep her up with what goes on here at Jill's, on the news, with PP, etc. It's all rather repulsive to her.

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 10:06 PM


"If your daughter would not consult you before having an abortion, there is something wrong with your relationship that laws can't fix."

That's a laugh. I don't care what the relationship is like between a daughter and her parents, a teenage pregnancy is something that a kid would CERTAINLY want to hide from her parents if she can get rid of it discretely and privately. I get along great with my parents - they really respect what I've done with my life so far. IN FACT, that's why, if I ever got a girl pregnant, I would be VERY tempted to keep it from them. I'll bet there are women out there that feel the same way about their parents. Opposition to parental notification just make abortion that much more sinisterly attractive to young people.

Posted by: Alex at August 12, 2008 11:34 AM

You have made my point. You don't trust your parents not to withdraw love and support if you should do something to dissapoint them. It isn't the government's fault that you don't trust your parents.

Posted by: Sally at August 12, 2008 10:01 PM

Maybe the lack of trust is not between teens and their parents. Remember, parental notification would protect pregnant girls from other adults taking them for abortions without their parents knowledge. We hear stories about counselors at school taking girls for abortions during school hours, and child! You are twisting this issue to make parents feel guilty about wanting Parental Notification laws to be enforced; can't you see that?

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 10:15 PM


Janet, you wrote: "Oh, it won't happen because she know better. I keep her up with what goes on here at Jill's, on the news, with PP, etc. It's all rather repulsive to her."

You are a brilliant self-parody. Ever read anything by Shakespeare? Romeo and Juliet? Othello?

Posted by: SoMG at August 12, 2008 10:55 PM


Sally,
I need to go to sleep! Just a few answers.....

The nun.. Hmmm...we'd probably have fewer abortions if a nun accompanied every person into PP. :)
.................................
I have a story.
I was 5 and my oldest sister 16 when she had her gall bladder removed. Mom took me with her to the hospital to visit but I was too young to be allowed up to see my sis. Mom left me sitting in the waiting room. Fidgeting and seriously trying to be good and not to turn the room into a jungle gym as I was known to do. Two nuns took pity on me and escorted me up to my sister's room. Boy did I feel special! But my mom's face was priceless. Grandma considered the Pope to be the anti-Christ. You can just imagine what mom was thinking with me in the company of two nuns! I found it pretty funny even at 5. I had a precocious sense of humor.
............................................
It is a natural part of our beings and with her ambitions she certainly didn't need to be obsessed with sex the way one needs to be to completely cut oneself off from that need.

I don't think living in chastity and purity results in an obsession about sex. That life can be fulfilling as well. It's not for everyone, but not impossible for some.
.................................

I read an interesting testimony for a Vatican council considering the Vatican position on birth control. It was written by a Catholic theologian and husband expalining he and his wife's dissatisfaction with NFP. As he and she explained it, having their natural expression of mutual desire limited to specific times of the month left them feeling unnatural and rather obsessed with sex. Obsession with avoiding sex is still obsession.
............................................

Do your children have ambitions, goals or dreams beyond getting married and having children Janet?

I think it's important to have life experience, working, traveling, and for a woman to be able to support herself independently before getting married. My daughter doesn't want to wait as long as I did to have children, because she doesn't want to be an "old" mom. :) I will let her make her own path, follow her own dreams, as she wishes. She's still young, so there's much time for her to figure that out. Right now she loves sports. The more the better! I'm trying to get her interested in the piano to round out her interests a bit.
.......................................

I'm in total agreement with you in encouraging female children to take value in supporting themselves. There is nothing sadder than a widow or divocee with children and no means to support their family.
I could never get my daughter interested in sports beyond the drill team in middle school. She did letter in her junior and senior years in academics. Like that counts in physical fitness! Her brother got her into running and weight training during her college years thankfully.

Posted by: Sally at August 12, 2008 11:09 PM


SoMG @ 10:55
I have no clue what you are talking about.

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 11:14 PM


Janet I am talking about the fact that parents like you who think their children are chaste are often wrong!

Posted by: SoMG at August 12, 2008 11:20 PM


Maybe the lack of trust is not between teens and their parents. Remember, parental notification would protect pregnant girls from other adults taking them for abortions without their parents knowledge. We hear stories about counselors at school taking girls for abortions during school hours, and child! You are twisting this issue to make parents feel guilty about wanting Parental Notification laws to be enforced; can't you see that?

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 10:15 PM
.............................................

I think that parents should be ashamed of themselves for putting their parental responsibilities upon the government. If your daughter is hanging out with adults you don't know anything about, it isn't the government's responsibility to step in and be the parent. If you aren't abusing your children, aren't a drug addict etc......... a school counselor isn't going to feel the need to step in and take over your job as a parent.
This law isn't about protecting children, it's about making excuses for lousy parents.

Posted by: Sally at August 12, 2008 11:30 PM


Lol Sally at your Grandma thinking the Pope is the anti-christ. All of them or one in particular? Lol. My Lutheran Grandma's problem with priest? "They don't have children. They don't even try to have children. Everyone want's children."

Posted by: Jess at August 12, 2008 11:36 PM


Sally @ 11:09,
Funny story about the nuns! Some were very kind, indeed!

I read an interesting testimony for a Vatican council considering the Vatican position on birth control. It was written by a Catholic theologian and husband expalining he and his wife's dissatisfaction with NFP. As he and she explained it, having their natural expression of mutual desire limited to specific times of the month left them feeling unnatural and rather obsessed with sex. Obsession with avoiding sex is still obsession.

Obsession is hardly a good thing. I'm not trying to be funny, but maybe they need to find some new hobbies, preferably strenuous ones. If that doesn't help, they should talk to their priest for spiritual help and he will be able to find further help for them if they need it. We can't really assume that this is an overwhelming problem but I'm sure there are many Catholics who are uncomfortable with the sacrifices it requires at times. There are Natural Family Planning classes available through out the year at most Catholic Churches - taught by couples who have dealt with these issues in the past. Currently the Catholic Church encourages engaged couples to attend these classes to give them a head start on how it all works. Also, there are Catholic OB/GYN's and Family Practitioners who can recommend groups that teach NFP. It works just as effectively for non-Catholics. I think the more people understand about the Churches teaching on this, the easier it becomes. My husband and I have adapted well to NFP.

I'm glad to hear we agree on the importance of girls being able to support themselves. Thankfully, that was a value my Dad instilled in me.

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 11:52 PM


Janet I am talking about the fact that parents like you who think their children are chaste are often wrong!

Posted by: SoMG at August 12, 2008 11:20 PM

Well, sometimes parents aren't wrong. You're trying to scare me and it won't work! Lol!

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 11:54 PM


Of course. Parents who are open to life put their trust in God to provide what they need. What they think they need, and what they actually do need are often quite different. You have to have a sense of humor to have a large family as well. My parents said they were done after having six kids because there were only eight hot dog buns in a package.

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 11:14 AM
........................................

To my way of thinking, putting your trust in god as you say, is little more than a refusal to take responsibility for your life. Gambling if you will.
Lucky for mom that I was the 3rd and last of the nine pregnancys to survive gestation and birth. It was tough enough for her having me still at home when dad died let alone at least another two with major special needs.
Did your parents just quit having sex rather than buy an extra bag of buns Janet? (That was sarcasm meant to be humorous.)

Posted by: Sally at August 13, 2008 12:03 AM


Sall @ 11:30,

I think that parents should be ashamed of themselves for putting their parental responsibilities upon the government. If your daughter is hanging out with adults you don't know anything about, it isn't the government's responsibility to step in and be the parent. If you aren't abusing your children, aren't a drug addict etc......... a school counselor isn't going to feel the need to step in and take over your job as a parent.
This law isn't about protecting children, it's about making excuses for lousy parents.

Here's an analogy. Aspirin can't be given at school without a parent's permission. Is this because children are afraid to ask their uncommunicative parents for aspirin at home? Or is it because the government wants kids to be protected from people who don't have the child's best interests in mind? I'd say it's the latter. Same in the case with abortions.

If that doesn't make sense to you, we'll have to agree to disagree.


Posted by: Janet at August 13, 2008 12:09 AM


Sally 12;03,
To my way of thinking, putting your trust in God as you say, is little more than a refusal to take responsibility for your life. Gambling if you will.

Well, we disagree on that one, let's not argue that point, OK?

Lucky for mom that I was the 3rd and last of the nine pregnancys to survive gestation and birth. It was tough enough for her having me still at home when dad died let alone at least another two with major special needs.

I'm very sorry about your difficult situation and your father's death when you were so young. It must have been very hard.

Did your parents just quit having sex rather than buy an extra bag of buns Janet? (That was sarcasm meant to be humorous.)

About quitting having sex, the answer's no. Luckily, the old "calendar method" worked well for them. :o)


Posted by: Janet at August 13, 2008 12:19 AM


Lol Sally at your Grandma thinking the Pope is the anti-christ. All of them or one in particular? Lol. My Lutheran Grandma's problem with priest? "They don't have children. They don't even try to have children. Everyone want's children."

Posted by: Jess at August 12, 2008 11:36 PM
.............................

All of them. Grandma was raised Mennonite. Her maternal grandparents were from Mannheim. She left the Mennonites and became a Salvation Army officer after attending what other organized religions call seminary. She believed that only the Anti-Christ would be capable of commanding others to murder in the name of Christ.
She had a complete conspiracy theory, rather like hisman's but less franticly paranoid, all tied up in a bundle. It involved the Red Menace. I inherited some of that literature. Fun stuff!

Posted by: Sally at August 13, 2008 12:21 AM


Sally, just one more point, and then I need to retire..I'm sleepy!

"Taking responsibility for your own life" seems to be a recurring point you are stressing on this thread, and I agree with you that it is very important. I take my roll as a parent very seriously, as I'm sure you do too. I don't think it's wrong to want government co-operation on certain things, like parental notification as a back-up measure.

Good talking to you. Good night!

Posted by: Janet at August 13, 2008 12:28 AM


Obsession is hardly a good thing. I'm not trying to be funny, but maybe they need to find some new hobbies, preferably strenuous ones. If that doesn't help, they should talk to their priest for spiritual help and he will be able to find further help for them if they need it. We can't really assume that this is an overwhelming problem but I'm sure there are many Catholics who are uncomfortable with the sacrifices it requires at times. There are Natural Family Planning classes available through out the year at most Catholic Churches - taught by couples who have dealt with these issues in the past. Currently the Catholic Church encourages engaged couples to attend these classes to give them a head start on how it all works. Also, there are Catholic OB/GYN's and Family Practitioners who can recommend groups that teach NFP. It works just as effectively for non-Catholics. I think the more people understand about the Churches teaching on this, the easier it becomes. My husband and I have adapted well to NFP.

I'm glad to hear we agree on the importance of girls being able to support themselves. Thankfully, that was a value my Dad instilled in me.

Posted by: Janet at August 12, 2008 11:52 PM
............................

Either sex is a natural need or it isn't. If marriage is the only natural reason to have sex, than it would follow that the need for sex would only occur when one is married.
The Vatican actually invited the respected theologian and his wife to speak and lend his thoughts. At the end of the collective Bishop's investigations, scouring scripture etc..... they determined that birth control is not a sin. The Pope overrode their determination. The current Pope was one of those involved but absented himself from the vote. He didn't even vote present.
With NFP you are scientifically probing yourself for signs of fertility as well as attempting to alter natural needs for physical affection to the satisfaction of a religious dictator. Not god.
Voltaire said that anyone that can make you beleive absurdities can make you commit injustices.
Do absurd beliefs prevent you from doing justice to your sexual relationship with your husband?

Posted by: Sally at August 13, 2008 1:09 AM


Sall @ 11:30,

I think that parents should be ashamed of themselves for putting their parental responsibilities upon the government. If your daughter is hanging out with adults you don't know anything about, it isn't the government's responsibility to step in and be the parent. If you aren't abusing your children, aren't a drug addict etc......... a school counselor isn't going to feel the need to step in and take over your job as a parent.
This law isn't about protecting children, it's about making excuses for lousy parents.

Here's an analogy. Aspirin can't be given at school without a parent's permission. Is this because children are afraid to ask their uncommunicative parents for aspirin at home? Or is it because the government wants kids to be protected from people who don't have the child's best interests in mind? I'd say it's the latter. Same in the case with abortions.

If that doesn't make sense to you, we'll have to agree to disagree.


Posted by: Janet at August 13, 2008 12:09 AM
...........................

Are you trying to pretend that abortions are being provided by school nurses in school facilities while they can't provide a potentially lethal drug such as aspirin?
Exactly why would a child need to be given an aspirin at school? To thin the blood during a heart attack?
Janet, having children is not some entitlement program created by your deity to be supported by society.

Posted by: Sally at August 13, 2008 1:37 AM


SoMg,
My daughter at the age of 8 already knows what abortion is, what it has done to my life, why I volunteer to help others that are hurting and that her sister Aubrey is in heaven.
Going back a bit...my daughter would have had to be dating seriously, having unprotected sex and taken a pregnancy test to find out she was indeed pregnant and decided on her own to have an abortion all without my knowledge. It doesn't add up. WE TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING.

I cannot keep my daughter from having sex. She knows saving oneself is God's plan. I cannot keep my daughter from having an abortion. She knows it is the taking of a life.
I can tell her all that I know to be true, listen to her and love her and be there for her. I consider that to be the definition of MOM.

Posted by: Carla at August 13, 2008 6:56 AM


Continued...
You forget SoMG that you and I come from two very different spiritual backgrounds. I believe in God. I believe that everything in my life, including my abortion, God has a plan for. God is using my abortion story to help others. What Satan tried to destroy, God uses for good. My faith is not what I say, it is how I live my life. I shower God's word on my children and pray over them every day. I do not live in fear or What ifs. Everything is in God's hands and He does what pleases Him. My children belong to Him. They are given to me for a time and I point them in His direction.

My daughter has choices to make, just as I did. Praying for her and instructing her in the way she should go and bringing glory to God by how I raise her is my highest calling in this life.

If she becomes pregnant I would say, "I love you and I love that baby and we will get through this together. Momma is here for you." The exact words I wish I had heard 17 years ago.

Discussing what to do IF seems rather pointless though doesn't it?? :)

Posted by: Carla at August 13, 2008 7:28 AM


Carla, your daughter may talk about everything with you NOW, but these things have a way of changing, sometimes suddenly. The emerging sex drive is coupled by natural selection with an equally instinctive drive to rebel against parental authority no matter how benevolent.

Posted by: SoMG at August 13, 2008 7:30 AM


Hi Sally,
I wish I could stay up later and have a chat with you too!! :)
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Posted by: Carla at August 13, 2008 7:31 AM


Yes SoMG,
And still you forecast destruction and despair on my life.......:)

Please remember I was raised by parents that didn't care. I have much to tell my children from my own life experience don't I??

God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.

I am going to pray for you all day today.

Posted by: Carla at August 13, 2008 7:36 AM


Sally,

Aspirin can also be used for pain...what if a child has a headache or a girl needs pain medication to help with bad cramps? We're talking aspirin or an Advil or an Aleve. Not Heroin or Marijuana.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at August 13, 2008 7:47 AM


I just read the article and watched the video. What a bold liars these people are.

Posted by: Bethany at August 13, 2008 8:06 AM


Carla, your daughter may talk about everything with you NOW, but these things have a way of changing, sometimes suddenly. The emerging sex drive is coupled by natural selection with an equally instinctive drive to rebel against parental authority no matter how benevolent.

SOMG, try not to project your realities onto Carla. Children only rebel when they have been constantly treated in a way that hurts them; If they have some reason to be resentful of authority.

Children start seeking independence post puberty, but in a family where they feel loved and accepted, there is no need to rebel against their family in order to become independent.

I know many, many families of teenagers whose children love them and talk to them all the time, and have never "rebelled".

I am certain that Carla will be a parent to a teenager, then adult, who loves and admires her very much.

Posted by: Bethany at August 13, 2008 8:11 AM


"My cursory search also revealed Kelly is on the speaking circuit in conjunction with Planned Parenthood."

well, that explains it, this feminist had an agenda to be filled

Posted by: Jasper at August 13, 2008 9:54 AM


Bethany 8:11,
You are on a roll! Good points!

Are you trying to pretend that abortions are being provided by school nurses in school facilities while they can't provide a potentially lethal drug such as aspirin?
Exactly why would a child need to be given an aspirin at school? To thin the blood during a heart attack?
Janet, having children is not some entitlement program created by your deity to be supported by society.

Posted by: Sally at August 13, 2008 1:37 AM

1) For someone who prides themselves on clarity of thinking and choice of words, you are making too many assumptions about what I am saying.
2) I said nothing about abortions in school facilities.
3) Call your public school district about laws for medications given at schools. Things have changed over the last 10-20 years.
4) Your talk about dieties and sarcastic remarks about religion are getting old very fast. I will not argue Catholicism or religion with you. I have better things to do.
Have a good day Sally.


Posted by: Janet at August 13, 2008 11:08 AM


Thank you, Janet! :)

Posted by: Bethany at August 13, 2008 1:18 PM


Sally,

Aspirin can also be used for pain...what if a child has a headache or a girl needs pain medication to help with bad cramps? We're talking aspirin or an Advil or an Aleve. Not Heroin or Marijuana.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at August 13, 2008 7:47 AM
..........................................

Aspirin and Ibuprofen are potentially dangerous drugs Liz. Parents without complete understanding of their children's health history as well as current condition should not be handing them out as quick fixes. School nurses without a complete medical history of a given child and a comprehensive education of how a drug works has no business handing drugs out.

Posted by: Sally at August 14, 2008 11:23 PM


1) For someone who prides themselves on clarity of thinking and choice of words, you are making too many assumptions about what I am saying.
....................................

Translation: I can't back up what I say so don't expect me too.
...........................

2) I said nothing about abortions in school facilities.

............................

Why did you bring schools into the subject matter? A 'look over there' ploy to avoid the fact that you don't have thoughtful answers to direct questions?

...........................

3) Call your public school district about laws for medications given at schools. Things have changed over the last 10-20 years.

.................................

Like how? Please explain how the laws have changed in my school district.

.......................................

4) Your talk about dieties and sarcastic remarks about religion are getting old very fast. I will not argue Catholicism or religion with you. I have better things to do.
Have a good day Sally.

.......................................

Your deity worship got old centuries ago. You believe what you believe not out of thoughful consideration but rather being too lazy to think for yourself.

Neither you nor Jilly have a special understanding. A little more like the opposite.

Posted by: Sally at August 14, 2008 11:49 PM


Wow, Jasper, do you really think "feminist" is a diss? You say it coldly. My view of feminism is that women should have all the social and career opportunities that men do. I don't think feminist and "nasty abortion proponent" necessarily go hand in hand all the time...

Posted by: common sense at August 15, 2008 12:26 AM


Sally @ 11:49,

Well aren't you chipper.

Translation: I can't back up what I say so don't expect me too. Right.

Why did you bring schools into the subject matter? A 'look over there' ploy to avoid the fact that you don't have thoughtful answers to direct questions? Right again!

Like how? Please explain how the laws have changed in my school district.Dunno.

Your deity worship got old centuries ago. You believe what you believe not out of thoughful consideration but rather being too lazy to think for yourself. Right.

I don't know why I try to talk to you. Grow up and smell the coffee, Sally. Why don't you try to figure out what/who you are so angry about and deal with it. Stop looking in the past. Maybe a little "lazy" reliance on God through prayer might help. I hope you find peace in the future. God bless you Sally.

Neither you nor Jilly have a special understanding. A little more like the opposite.

Jilly? Understanding of what? You?


Posted by: Janet at August 15, 2008 4:30 AM


Your deity worship got old centuries ago. You believe what you believe not out of thoughful consideration but rather being too lazy to think for yourself.

If I believe in a deity who I revere and you have no deity to revere, who is the lazy one? It is much more work to believe and act on that belief than to believe nothing and do nothing.

What happened to the salvation army and mennonite beliefs of your ancestors? Were they not good enough?

Posted by: Janet at August 15, 2008 10:45 PM


Exactly why would a child need to be given an aspirin at school? To thin the blood during a heart attack?

Posted by: Sally at August 13, 2008 1:37 AM

To be fair, I should have said "ibuprofen" or "tylenol" instead of aspirin. I'm showing my age. Surely you remember the days when aspirin was the pain-reliever of choice.

My analogy was to demonstrate the fact that while a teacher cannot dispense a pain-reliever to a child at school without a note from parents, a teacher/counselor has been known to bring a child for an abortion without a parental notification.
Doesn't that blow your mind?

Posted by: Janet at August 16, 2008 9:15 AM


Go Janet!

Posted by: Bethany at August 16, 2008 9:41 AM


Exactly why would a child need to be given an aspirin at school? To thin the blood during a heart attack?

First of all, was he a heavy smoker?


Posted by: Doug at August 17, 2008 2:48 PM