I now know what Barack Obama was thinking when he said he wouldn't want his daughters "punished with a baby" if they "ma[d]e a mistake" and had premarital sex.

How sad that he surely had his own tribe, liberals, in mind, who sure know how to mete punishment with vicious aplomb in such case.

Thanks to a soap opera script on Daily Kos that Sarah Palin faked her pregnancy with now four-month-old son Trig to cover for his real mother, her 17-year-old daughter Bristol, the Palin family was forced to announce today that unmarried Bristol is five months pregnant.

The announcement was wonderful, in sharp contrast to Obama's thought of his own grandchild who might be conceived in a similar situation...

Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support.

Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family.

But the Left wants to make sure any girl in a similar situation aborts. Alternet has already got the long knives out, counting the days until Palin is off the McCain ticket and his judgment in selecting her:

... [T]here are legitimate larger questions about what the surprise choice of Palin as McCain's running mate reveals about the GOP presidential candidate's judgment and temperament.

The facts surrounding the Palin family's pregnancies... suggest the AK governor will at the very least have many distractions while she is campaigning this fall, to say nothing of her fitness to become commander-in-chief.

Pregnancies, as in plural. The Left also thinks Palin should have aborted the baby. Until today, it was positive it wasn't hers, a little boy with Down syndrome.

Both babies apparently render Palin unfit for national office.

Speaking of the latter, liberals could go no lower than Alan Colmes did Saturday, with a post he has been shamed into removing after it caused an uproar. But the Internet makes it hard to permanently remove anything. Here 'tis (click to enlarge):

Colmes did not apologize for what he said, just for not being clear enough about what he said. No, he blamed conservatives:

Liberals clearly drive mothers to abort. They cannot fathom birthing untimely or imperfect babies.

Ok, I don't know who the hell (pardonez moi mon francais!) this cracker-jack Alan Colmes is, but he knows NOTHING about pregnancy and labour.
My water broke with my third pregnancy and my doctor did not have me go to the hospital. He did a culture to check for infection (as he had done an internal and I had been in labour for 5 or 6 hours) and then sent me home to wait for labour to begin on it's own. I was 4 weeks early.

Just because a woman's water breaks doesn't mean she's gonna go into labour and have the baby IMMEDIATELY either! Sheesh! I didn't go into labour until 48 hours later. And my doctor had patients who went weeks without going into labour, buying the baby a few extra weeks to finish growing and maturing.

And like ACOG is an authority on babies. That's almost laughable now, in light of their proabort policies and stance. It's a wonder ACOG doctors have any patients left at all!

BTW, calling Palin, Princess Mooseburger is just plain nasty. These guys are pigs.

I just *love* how Alan felt the need to investigate how long it took Mrs. Palin to get to the hospital after her water broke. Excuse me, but WHAT does that have to do with ANYTHING?!? She is a mom who has had five children...I'm pretty sure she knows her body and knows the drill by now. Alan, are you calling into question what she does with *her* body? Why should her unborn child even matter to you--after all, it's her "choice," right? What a load of garbage, Alan. Sean Hannity should ditch you for his own show. You don't help the ratings, anyway.

The fact that Mrs. Palin's pregnancy was even in question should have women everywhere in an uproar. It's sick and disgusting, and frankly, I'd be disgusted if this were done to a liberal female politician as well. The whole tabloid hunt for Bristol's "baby bump" was just ridiculous.

The statement they released was so well-put, and as the sister-in-law of a woman who went through an unplanned pregnancy, I am proud to say that my in-laws rallied around my SIL as well, and it makes all the difference in the world.

Jill, as soon as I heard about this today, I thought of the exact same thing (Obama talking about babies as punishment...and I am struck by the polar opposites in this campaign.

Here's a question that's gnawing at me- If the Palins were so concerned about Bristol's privacy, why did they choose to throw their kid under the bus when it became politically expedient to do so? If they were genuinely concerned about making sure her pregnancy did not become an issue, they could have simply kept her out of the public eye for the next two months. That's what they wanted to do anyway. Instead they decide to quell those "nasty rumors" by dropping the dime on their daughter. They could have simply released Trig's birth records instead, and everyone would have gotten red in the face and slinked away. Something is definitely rotten in the Great White North Territory. This needs to be addressed. The Palin family and the McCain campaign have made it all fair game right from the beginning.

Ultimately, the focus of this whole kerfuffle shouldn't be on Sarah Palin and her family at all. Her family drama is a side issue.

The fact that all this drama exists, and that John McCain's camp was apparently totally unaware of any of it up until Saturday is the problem. McCain's campaign screwed up. They didn't bother to vet her, and now they're paying the price.

Just because a woman's water breaks doesn't mean she's gonna go into labour and have the baby IMMEDIATELY either! Sheesh! I didn't go into labour until 48 hours later. And my doctor had patients who went weeks without going into labour, buying the baby a few extra weeks to finish growing and maturing.

Posted by: Patricia at September 1, 2008 9:43 PM
*********************************************

The amniotic fluid is continually replenishing itself. This is why a woman whose water has broken can be put in the hospital and monitored on bedrest for a VERY long time (days) and still have a healthy baby.

My doctor told me to pay attention to my contractions after my water broke, and if they became regular and strong, and longer in duration, to come to the hospital right away. If not, she told me to hang out for about four hours or so before I came to the hospital, which is exactly what I did with my second pregnancy. And even after arriving, it was Pitocin plus twelve more hours before our son was born.

What I want to know is, is THIS what passes for investigative reporting? Is THIS the best they can come up with on Mrs. Palin: "She waited *a long time* to go to the hospital" ??? I can't believe they even bothered to get quotes from OBs for this.

Kel: my doctor did not even send me to the hospital except to have a nonstress test ? on the baby. Everything was fine and he told me to go home and wait.
I agree with you - it seems that it's an attempt to paint Palin as a failure at something, anything....
If she can't manage her family then how can she manage the country etc....

Merge divide,

Didn't you read Jill's post? They had to reveal her pregnancy because the left-wing-facist-smear-merchant-pigs were investigating Palin's daughter, saying she was the one who had Trig.

The left-wing made Palin's daughter an issue, not the McCain campaign.

Posted by: geez louise at September 1, 2008 9:51 PM

You need to read a little more. Palin DID tell McCain before he made his decision. He and his advisors told her that her personal life would come under harsh attack that she could not prepare herself for, and after a family decision, she said she would accept if offered the position. Please get over yourself.

As for Alan, the guy is unable to carry on even the slightest meaningful conversation as he continually proves on his show. He obviously knows nothing about child birth and a woman's relationship with her doctor.

With my third child my water started leaking early in the morning. I went to the hospital but because they were very busy and I was having no contractions (pain) they asked if I'd mind waiting to be put in a room. I said no problem. 14 hours later I finally got a bed, my doctor was not concerned with infection as I still had a good 10 hours before that was even thought to be a concern.

And if I had the choice between going to MY OWN doctor and some unknown that was a quack for all I knew, take a guess at what I would do.

GL: "The fact that all this drama exists, and that John McCain's camp was apparently totally unaware of any of it up until Saturday is the problem. McCain's campaign screwed up. They didn't bother to vet her, and now they're paying the price."

Actually McCain knew about it. He didnt find it relevant to her role as a VP of the United States, as most Americans Im sure also find it.

Here is a great article about it all...

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1837862-1,00.html

Jill:

The Libs are being exposed for all their vileness in support of abortion. They are pushing God to the edge. It's amazing to see Him work.

As I stated in my post of April 17, 2007 on this site, "Since abortion makes no sense to any rationally thinking person, there has to be other reasons for pro-aborts' "death grip" on this so-called "death right"."

It is no secret to me what abortion truly is and why I think it is used as a means to hold political power. I state it again as posted on previous threads as follows:

"You have to realize that pro-deathers are not driven by logic. They are driven by the lust for power, perhaps abortion followers without realizing it, but its leaders and initiators, guilty as hell."

and

"So, when they acknowledge the horror of a baby cooking video, or talk about how bad kicking a dead baby in a bag is, or allowing a baby to die in a toilet in an abortion deathatorium despite the pleas of the mother for the baby's life, they really are acknowledging the horror of abortion since to not do so would be illogical. What they fail to realize is that in doing so, they for a moment remove their masks, and their K-9 fangs show through the sheepskin, scaring even themselves. Does a werewolf know who he is?"

Abortion rights are not about women's rights, they are about power as if the mere possession of such power validates their behavior and rebellion towards God; the ultimate expression of self-righteousness and pride.

Satan tried to steal power from God Himself when he tempted Christ on the mountain, so, we should not be deceived; the outcome was sure. We have a Savior that has been tempted in all things and it is to Him we can go for strength to resist the onslaught of the abortion lie.

Many have fallen to that lie, even Protestant and Catholic Christians. It's time to call them home.

Where are women's right found? In none other than the person of Christ. Mary Magdelene knew this, the Virgin Mary knew this, Martha knew this, countless millions of other women have found this out too, as you know this. Now it is being demonstated to the world that Sarah Palin knows this and not afraid to tell the world.

Catholic and Protestants please wake up. Abortion is not God's will for anyone.

And what woman who has ever lived had more of a justifable reason, according to a Liberal's way of thinking, to abort a baby, than the Virgin Mary? She was very young, was engaged to Joesph, and the people who knew Joseph's character knew he would never have pre-marital sex. She could have been stoned to death. What else does God have to say to us about his heart towards abortion? Had Mary aborted Jesus, she would have singlehandedley destroyed mankind.

I praise God for you and Sarah and all the women who stand for life and give life. Thank you two so much for standing firm.

Posted by: merge divide at September 1, 2008 9:48 PM

Right, like it wouldn't have come out before the election? What? She'd just be gaining weight? Then you'd accuse them of a cover-up. They just can't win for losing can they.

"Merge divide"

What a joke. You sure seem like a "merge divider" coming in here to insult Palin's truthful statements about her daughter. You are telling me that as someone who wants to reconcile the two parties that you honestly find her daughter's business of that much import to this election? Clearly you are digging for dirt, scraping to insult Governor Palin. You are not living up to your name very well!!

1. Gov. Palin has told the media that just a very small amoung of amniotic fluid had leaked before her getting on the plane.

2. Just as abortion is anti-woman (look up the etymology of the word, "rape" and you will find "abduct" or "plunder" which is exactly what an abortionist does) these attacks on Gov. Palin and her daughter are outrageously misogynistic.

My wife and I have five children. You should have seen the nasty looks and heard the commetns we would get when we took them all grocery shopping with us. Even 'church' people would say negative things. We are a sick culture.

God bless and protect the Palin family, particularly their children and grandchildren.

Pro-abortion whore Kyra Phillips (from CNN) attempts to score points for Obama:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2008/09/01/bennett-live-cnn-rebukes-cnn-exploiting-palins-daughter-score-political

The sophomoric noise floating on the surface of the campaigns of both candidates seems to occupy most of the blogosphere, especially the comments.

The lack of intellectual rigor in mainstream America is something to behold. The inflation of trivia at the expense of honest consideration of serious issues is ridiculous.

Hisman, good remarks.

It's fascinating how abortion and pro-life issues are suddenly front and center in this campaign. Young Bristol, I don't suppose, appreciates just how catalytic her personal narrative has become of a broader discourse.

There will be no political peace or "unity" (pace Obama) in America as long as the killing of unborn humans persists. Pro-choice folk, unfortunately, seem animated toward deeper levels of hatred by the fact that their despised enemies haven't rolled over and peed for them.

Heh. Like that could happen.

If you were [truly] Abraham's children, then you would do the works of Abraham [follow his example, do as Abraham did]. But now [instead] you are wanting and seeking to kill Me, a Man Who has told you the truth which I have heard from God. This is not the way Abraham acted. You are doing the works of your [own] father. If God were your Father, you would love Me and respect Me and welcome Me gladly, for I proceeded (came forth) from God [out of His very presence]. I did not even come on My own authority or of My own accord (as self-appointed); but He sent Me. Why do you misunderstand what I say? It is because you are unable to hear what I am saying. [You cannot bear to listen to My message; your ears are shut to My teaching.] You are of your father, the devil, and it is your will to practice the lusts and gratify the desires [which are characteristic] of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a falsehood, he speaks what is natural to him, for he is a liar [himself] and the father of lies and of all that is false.

"They didn't bother to vet her, and now they're paying the price."

Are you completely INSANE? The only reason this is an issue at all is that the psychotic far-left decided that Sarah Palin wasn't big enough when she was six months pregnant, so that "PROVED" some kind of ridiculous conspiracy about her covering up her daughter's pregnancy. Why even bother to talk about something like this? Because the far-left is so hateful that they wanted to use something - anything - to try to discredit Palin. Their plan? "Prove" that "Palin LIED!" to protect her daughter, and thus be able to say "Palin is a liar, just like Bush!!" or some similar, equally absurd, unbelievably political bullcrap.

Turns out that it's well-known in Palin's home town that her daughter is pregnant, and that's she's engaged to the father. It wasn't exactly a big family secret, but it also isn't something that you normally would trumpet to the entire world.

Speaking of "vetting", when the hell is someone going to vet that anti-American, baby killing MANIAC on the top of the Democrat Party ticket? Before or after he destroys our nation?

John:

So awesome to see you back my friend.

Your passion is contagious.

Abstinence never fails. Condoms fail. Diaphrams fail. Sex education fails. People fail.

It is an imperfect world, full of imperfect people.

Everyone needs forgiveness.

From www.LenMunsil.com:

""JUNO" IN JUNEAU
As a matter of policy the press does not reveal the identities of minors who are involved in criminal activity. Children cannot enter into contracts because they do not have the legal capacity to consent. Medical treatment is confidential and requires parental consent.

But incredibly, today the mainstream media has prominently displayed the full name, photograph and medical condition (pregnancy) of a 17-year-old minor, and some have even tried to score cheap political points -- simply because she is the daughter of a candidate for vice president.

Why? Because it was necessary to respond to completely false and scurrilous accusations that her mother, Gov. Sarah Palin, faked her own pregnancy.

The story should be about phony, scurrilous accusations fueled by Obama supporters. Instead the media is trying to make some point about hypocrisy and abstinence education.

William Bennett on CNN got a little heated in questioning CNN's coverage of this issue, and he was right. And Bill Kristol on Fox News almost throttled Morton Kondracke for suggesting that Palin's daughter's situation demonstrates the failure of abstinence education.

I've experienced this type of coverage -- when I ran for Governor, supporters of one of my opponents committed a felony by illegally paying for a "push poll" to falsely claim I had an illegitimate child. The media made no effort to figure out who committed a crime in the midst of a political campaign. Instead they played up the two-decade old story of an engaged couple in their mid-20s, both college graduates, conceiving a child a month before their wedding - and partly because of that experience, being committed to the pro-life cause and to abstinence education.

Gov. Sarah Palin is not a hypocrite for supporting abstinence education, which is the right policy for the health of children who risk disease and profound emotional distress through underage sex, whether or not a child is conceived.

In the same way, Barack Obama is not a hypocrite for supporting anti-drug efforts even though he used cocaine as a young adult. And if, God forbid, one of his precious children were to experiment with drugs, he would still be right to speak out against drug use and the media would be wrong to focus on the child's indiscretion. The hypocrisy argument is bogus.

Morton Kondracke and Obama supporters should be ashamed of themselves for trying to make an anti-Republican political point at the expense of a child.

To his credit, Barack Obama declared the subject off-limits and promised to fire any member of his campaign who made an issue of it.

But here is a question for the "objective" media -- why are they so much more interested in the private problems of the Republican vice presidential nominee's 17-year-old child than the very public and relevant activities of the Democratic vice presidential nominee's fully grown, 38-year-old son, a Washington lobbyist who successfully gained millions of dollars of "earmarks" for his clients -- with the help of the supposed "change" candidate, Sen. Obama?"

God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it. There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust him to save them. But those who don't trust him have already been tried and condemned for not believing in the only Son of God. Their sentence is based on this fact: that the Light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the Light, for their deeds were evil. They hated the heavenly Light because they wanted to sin in the darkness. They stayed away from that Light for fear their sins would be exposed and they would be punished. But those doing right come gladly to the Light to let everyone see that they are doing what God wants them to."

kbhvac:

I like your style.

Keep fightin' the good fight my friend.

"God's Word will not return to Him void but accomplish the purpose for which it was sent".

I get the sense that each member of the Palin family has very powerful bonds together. I really think they had already all talked about this and that they are probably glad to make it public at this time. Whereas a person like merge-divide would hide her daughter instead and make her feel like she needed to be ashamed about what she had done. It is just a fundamental difference in some peoples outlook on life.

Hey, HisMan. You know the REAL reason why the Democrat Party (misspelling intentional) is so upset about Palin? Because they weren't ready to unleash their slime machine on her. Check this out:

http://www.democrats.org/page/content/thenextcheney

Keep in mind that that is the OFFICIAL website of the Democrat Party, not some fringe, ultra-left loon site. They were all ready to start attacking Cheney's VP pick with sludge, in diametrical opposition to the kind of politics that their nominee CLAIMS to stand for, no matter who it turned out to be. But they left Sarah Palin off the list, so they didn't know what to do!

So they lashed out in all directions, making all kinds of stupid arguments, eg, Palin is inexperienced (yet more experienced than Lord Barry the Obamessiah), Palin is from a small town (thanks for the continued elitism, Obama camp), and Palin is unqualified (misogyny, anyone?).

They have yet to call Palin "The Next Cheney", but I'll be ready to laugh out loud when they do. It'll probably be a few minutes after she kicks Biden's dumb Democrat donkey rear in the debate.

"Hey, HisMan. You know the REAL reason why the Democrat Party (misspelling intentional) is so upset about Palin?"

Boooo. You are undermining my assertion that Jill has no idea what that epithet means.....

Okay so I could understand if people have policy issues with her.

I CAN'T STAND the notion that pregnancy is a disaster and/or makes a woman unfit to do her job.

FEMINISTS, listen to me! Grow a pair of lady balls and get over it!

The McCain Campaign has raised a record 10 million dollars in the 3days since the Palin VP selection.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/01/mccain-campaign-raises-a-record-47-milion-in-august/

Obviously I'm not going to be able to address every single poster in the forum who responded to my comment.

But to sum up my thoughts on the issue:

1. The Palins legitimized what amounts to low-level rumormongering by answering it with a press conference. If they had to do that, they should have just offered a credible journalist of their choosing the chance to see the medical records. That would have made it go away without the need for dramatic revelations.

2. The fact that Ms. Palin was willing to humiliate her daughter on the national stage demonstrates that she has terrible judgment,and an extremely self-serving attitude.

3. The entire debacle makes the McCain campaign look terribly out-of-control to anyone that hasn't decided on a president.

4. The contention that Ms. Palin's actions and relationships as a mother are not to be analyzed and commented on in the race is invalidated by the heavy-handed attempts to build this candidate's public profile on "family values". She looks increasingly week in that department because of her own actions.

Oliver, "Democrat Party" is not an epithet. The reason why Democrats get upset when their party is called the "Democrat Party" is that they want to be called "Democratic", so that people will think that they are "democratic" with a small "d", and thus, by implication, that if you are not a member of the "Democratic" Party, you are therefore not "democratic".

These geniuses play the same word games with the word "liberal". Although in modern political context, "liberal" means "left of center", they object to this definition and use others that they feel are more pleasant. And we absolutely know about the word games they play with the word "choice". Holy cow, do they play some Orwellian games with that one.

If I really wanted to use an epithet for "Democrats", I would use "Demoncats", "Dumbocrats", "Democraps", or something else fun like that.

Merge Divide,

Another brilliant post dude.

"The fact that Ms. Palin was willing to humiliate her daughter on the national stage demonstrates that she has terrible judgment,and an extremely self-serving attitude."

Who says she was humiliated. Maybe she offered to go public for her mother's sake?

Or heres a thought....maybe because of the investigation, it was close to being released. Keep in mind that her hometown pretty much already knew.

"She looks increasingly week in that department because of her own actions."

She looks weak because her daughter got pregnant at 17 years old and made the grown up decision to keep her child and marry the father? I think it makes Palin look like an amazing mother. Once again, I posit the question...how many abortions has Mrs Obama had to further her own agendas?

Oh but dont listen to reason...continue making your wild inferences!! You rule dude. Were you one of the "anarchists" protesting at the RNC in the face of Gustav destroying store fronts and setting things on fire?

merge:

1. Everyone in the Palin's home town already knows that the daughter is pregnant. It is not a dramatic revelation.

2. Everyone in the Palin's home town already knows that the daughter is pregnant. Revealing it wasn't a humiliation.

3. McCain knew that Palin's daughter was pregnant before he chose Palin as his VP.

4. You don't know what you're talking about.

John,

You know, I was actually not entirely sure why it was an insult to begin with actually. That makes sense though...calling them the "Democrat" Party in order to not compliment them as "democratic."

I also agree that it is a lame one. I also like "Democ-rats."

"Obviously I'm not going to be able to address every single poster in the forum who responded to my comment."

pick one then.

"The fact that Ms. Palin was willing to humiliate her daughter on the national stage demonstrates that she has terrible judgment,and an extremely self-serving attitude."

No, the left-wing smear merchants are the ones who are trying to humiliate her daughter. It's the opposite of what you said, if Palin were self serving she would have encouraged her daughter to abort. (Like many Democrats have done, Kennedy, Clinton, with their mistresses)

Merge Divide might be SoMG resurrected.

Beware.

Sadly how fast some people forget their basic principles.
here is the daughter of somebody who claims to be a moral leader of the highest order
and she commits the ultimate sin, and suddenly teenage fornification is
an admirable and desireable activity.
How about some straigt talk, she is clearly a slut,
and her parents have failed in the most basic task,
to insure their childrens purity.
Stop the execuses.

No, Merge Divide is not nearly as inteligent as SoMG...nowhere close.

TD Monk,

Thats a good outlook to have! Extremely realistic!

Do you then support women and men getting married at age 12? I mean, it would be the most logical outcome.

Our society has tried to outgrow our genetics. We expect our children to remain abstinent, but at the same time keep pushing the "exceptable" age of marriage further and further back. It was 13-14...then it became 18 so that the kids can get out of highschool. THEN it became 22 so that the kids can get their degree! Now its ridiculous to many Americans for someone to get married before they establish their career. How can expect everyone to deny their bodies so long? You may aspire to be so virtuous, but you cannot reasonably expect everyone to. In fact, you cannot reasonably expect most people to. Besides, how can you insult someone for not living up to the perfect ideal Christian? It isnt our job to beat each other down when we make mistakes.

HisMan,
I don't think SoMG is going to make the resurrection , at least without a change of heart and repentance that is.

I have been visiting other blogs and the biggest reason people are leaving the Democratic ticket and voting McCain is cause they think he is a liar and can't be trusted. Most of the swing voters actually seem to believe character is even more important than the policies of any political party.

with clarification:
I have been visiting other blogs and the biggest reason people are leaving the Democratic ticket and voting McCain is cause they think Obama is a liar and can't be trusted. Most of the swing voters actually seem to believe character is even more important than the policies of any political party.

TD Monk, your post is a sin worse than fornication.

By the way, women who have sex with their husbands-to-be are usually not called "sluts". Sorry.

"Stop the execuses.

Posted by: TD Monk at September 1, 2008 11:57 PM"

Well TD, if you stop the executions we'll stop the execuses.

Unbelievable.

Islamic leaders tied by federal investigators to the radical Muslim Brotherhood in America - including one under active investigation for alleged terror-financing - have recently donated to Sen. Barack Obama's campaign for president, according to Federal Election Commission records reviewed by WND. Read the latest now on WND.com.
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73719

Hear ye, hear ye, all you Liberals, this is real news that can affect you, like a nuke....not the mistakes of a 17 year old girl of a VP Candidate.

Hello, hello, hello.

with regard to the Post by: The Devil's Monk Sept 1, 2008 11:57 PM

TDM, what do you consider your role to be as part of the Obama team?

YIKES! I was all prepared to come on and comment about this post but am even more repulsed by the comments! SHEESH!
What the heck????
How can anyone not see that Alan Colmes' article was just meant to be a nasty piece? There was no other reason to write what he did other than to try to say that Sarah Palin was a bad mother because she didn't go straight to the hospital. He's an idiot!

As for the mistakes the McCain team made... you know who is saying it was a mistake that Mccain picked Palin? Liberals! They are trying to convince conservatives that they should be upset with McCain. Well, guess what? Not working!

They are grasping at straws and they know it! Sarah Palin is going to shore up any loose ends the Republican ticket had out there and I'll tell you what, as the mother of teenage daughters, she has earned even more of my respect with the graceful way she & her husband are dealing with their daughter's pregnancy.

Sarah Palin scares the liberals WAY more than John McCain ever did. She is a strong, intelligent, stands-by-her-morals woman and she is virtually untouchable.

Sex is always a sin (the ultimate sin) whether you are young or old
about to be married or single,
it is still a sin, you are giving in
to temptation, temptation of the flesh, lust.

For a man at least, lust is always involved in sex
and lust is always a deadly sin.
How about less talk about 'mistakes' or 'forgiveness' or other modern talk show BS
and more talk about Judgement and Sin.

Dear ACLU Supporter,

George W. Bush has launched a new assault on birth control and reproductive freedom.

Late last week, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) proposed regulations that could seriously undermine access to basic reproductive health services -- including birth control and abortion.

Instead of striking a careful balance between individual religious liberty and patients’ access to reproductive health care, the Bush administration has taken patients’ rights and their health care needs out of the equation.

We have less than 30 days to stop these new rules from being enacted. Take a stand now.

The rule leaves open the possibility that -- based on religious beliefs -- institutions and individuals can deny women access to birth control. It also permits individuals to refuse to provide information and counseling about basic heath care services. And it expands existing laws by permitting a wider range of health care professionals to refuse to provide even referrals for abortions.

Act fast to protect access to basic care for the millions of Americans who depend on federally funded health care services.

This far-reaching proposal doesn’t need congressional approval. But, it can’t go forward without allowing for public comment. That’s where you come in.

Tell the Department of Health and Human Services to stop efforts to block women’s access to basic reproductive health services. Submit your comments now.

The public comment period on these insidious regulations is open until September 20.

That’s all the time we have to generate a massive public outcry. Take action now.

At a time when more and more Americans are either uninsured or struggling with the soaring costs of health care, the federal government should be expanding access to important health services, not undermining existing protections or interfering in programs that have successfully provided services for years.

Please act right now. The deadline on public comments is fast approaching, and we have to generate intense opposition to these dangerous regulations. After you take action, please forward this email to your friends and family who care about equal access to health care.

Thanks for standing with us.

Sincerely,

Louise Melling, Director
ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project

FOLLOW THIS LINK TO TAKE ACTION NOW AND PROTECT WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS!
http://action.aclu.org/hhs_comment

I just got this email. Seems that your chimp in the White House is getting desperate. Way to go, you conservative dogs. Way to ruin life for everyone. Keep preaching your words of ignorance, and keep telling me to go to AA. Like always, no one will ever listen.

The One
The Only
Skinhead Dan

TD Monk,

Every single child, with one exception, has done things which their parents have not approved. Whether it be premarital sex (with one's fiance), drugs, alcohol, lapsed church attendance, saying cruel things about other people, or any of the innumerable things that human beings dream up to do to themselves, their bodies, and others, it is a fact of life that no one is without their flaws.

I hate the idea of premarital sex, the frequency of it, the way that progressives would normalise it, but I cannot condemn Bristol Palin. We all fail in what we would do with our lives. The people of character are those who consistently try to avoid doing wrong, and, when having done wrong (best intentions nor good parenting not being prophylactics) do their best to be responsible and just. Bristol is not aborting, which would undoubtedly have saved her reputation and plans for college, but is carrying her child to term, marrying her boyfriend, and will bring up that child - a gift and miracle - with her caring, loving family.

We all screw up. Sarah Palin demonstrated that she is a truly awesome mom when she stated, unequivocally, that she is proud of her daughter. Would we all not want parents who, in the toughest of times, express their deepest love for us?

I, for one, think that a White House full of Palin children would be an awesome thing.

Sex isn't the ultimate sin, and in the proper situation is not a sin at all.

Read the Bible, clearly there are worse sins in there than simply sex. And yeah...forgiveness is a big part of the NT. Dang. Never heard anyone like you.

Did Joe Biden plagiarize more than once?

Unfortunately for Biden, more revelations of plagiarism followed, distracting him from the Bork hearings. Over the next days, it emerged that Biden had lifted significant portions of speeches from Robert Kennedy and Hubert Humphrey

http://www.slate.com/id/2198543/

Read more of the OT and less of the NT
The OT is where all the important, everlasting and unbreakable rules are.

How about less talk about 'mistakes' or 'forgiveness' or other modern talk show BS
and more talk about Judgement and Sin.

Posted by: TD Monk at September 2, 2008 12:35 AM

TDM, you are as phony as a three dollar bill.

As the joke went in the 1980s...

Did you hear Joe Biden wrote his autobiography?

It's entitled IACOCCA.

You are ludicrous. You would make a good fit in that head-banger monk band that was started up recently. I really wouldn't wish it on anybody but you though. BTW TDM

Jesus Christ is the revelation of all truth and the "Word Made Flesh". All that is in the OT and the NT. If what you preach is not right with Jesus then it's not the truth and it's not right with God. sed libera nos a Malo Amen.

This freaking cyber trash like TD Monk is a waste and their comments have no value except so that innocents like pip can be exposed to them in a safe environment and they can be shown for the idiocy they are. Ughhhhh

Posted by: Skinhead Dan Sept 2, 2008 12:39 AM

You wanna kill babies Dan, for now go ahead. But don't try and force your blood orgy on the hands of people of conscience. I would sooner kill a person who tried to force me to kill a babay then kill the baby. You want an abortion, go find and hire a killer. You want a prescription for abortificients, go find a pharmacist willing to sell you one. But don't try and force your freaking dirty lives onto the lives of people of conscience by forcing them to be a party to your choices; and acting as if their lack of participation in said killing is a violation of your "human rights". You are a piece all right.

Why is childbirth painfull?
To punish the woman for her sin of having fornicated.
The Lord clearly states so in the garden of eden.

pain and labor are part of God's judgment on sinners (Genesis 3:15-16).

To the woman he said,
"I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with pain you will give birth to children.


Christianity teaches us that abstinence,
even in marriage, is the way to salvation.
A woman has to groan in labor to
atone for her sin of marital sex.
When chloroform was discovered by Sir James Simpson
in the early 19th century for use in cases of difficult childbirth,
the church clearly condemned it.

This was a blasphemous attempt
to rebel against the curse that God had laid
upon Eve. Queen Victoria in the late
19th century was criticized heavily
for having used anesthesia, for having gone
against the dictates of the Christian teachings.

I don't know y'all, I just hope she really loves the father and isn't just marrying him to "do the right thing"- maybe they were just having fun and aren't really in love? In my opinion it's far worse for a child to grow up in a home where both parents are miserable because they don't want to be married than to have two loving parents who don't live together (and thus actually can get along). Sometimes you just can't make it work, and studies have shown that staying together "for the kids" can do more harm than good. I expect a barrage of comments about the importance of two-parent families, but I'm not willing to fight right now, so don't feel the need. Just wanted to put that out there. I just hope Bristol had a choice in the matter and didn't feel pressured to do so.

Oh, yeah, it should go without saying that any business can decide what products it will and will not dispense.

Hi, just dropping by to say thanks for the 'wayback machine' copy of Alan Colmes original hit piece. I tried to find it but couldn't. What a disgusting piece. Fox should fire that idiot and get a real honest liberal in there.

I just hope Bristol had a choice in the matter and didn't feel pressured to do so.
Posted by: common at September 2, 2008 1:32 AM

cmon common, Decent folk do feel pressure as part of the responsibility of raising a child.
Lasting love is more faithfullness and commitment then it is a "feeling".

Posted by: TD Monk at September 2, 2008 1:29 AM

TDM, You should take your act on the road.....
without access to the Internet

My wife and I have five children. You should have seen the nasty looks and heard the commetns we would get when we took them all grocery shopping with us. Even 'church' people would say negative things. We are a sick culture.

God bless and protect the Palin family, particularly their children and grandchildren.

Posted by: kbhvac at September 1, 2008 10:37 PM

I hear ya!

Has TD Monk posted here before? What a boat load of garbage his posts are. You have a warped view of sex, buddy.

TD Monk,

"Why is childbirth painfull?
To punish the woman for her sin of having fornicated.
The Lord clearly states so in the garden of eden.

pain and labor are part of God's judgment on sinners (Genesis 3:15-16).

To the woman he said,
"I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with pain you will give birth to children."

Yes, this is true. But you have not shown ho this implies that sex is evil. In fact, it argues the opposite point; that because sex is so good there is now a "price." But nothing about the verses you have quoted imply sex is evil. In fact, if you go back a 2 chapters to Genesis 1:28, you will see that God tells Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth. How are they to fulfill God's command? Lest you think this command was "void" after the temptation by the devil, we see the exact same command given in Gen 9:1 to Noah. One could go on and on with verses that support this (where are the quiverfull people?).

"Christianity teaches us that abstinence,
even in marriage, is the way to salvation."

This is almost as false as Pelosi's statement the other day on abortion. Show me either in Christian tradition or the bible where you find that abstinence in marriage is necessary for salvation. Yes there is a passage by Augustine somewhere where he seems to imply that one should only engage in the conjugal act if they are trying to have a child, but that isn't even the same thing.

In fact if what you claim is true, how did Christianity last 2000 years? Wouldn't it just die out like the Shakers (I think it's the Shakers)? Who are some examples of what you would consider the most holy Christians through out the last 2000 years? God love you.

"A woman has to groan in labor to
atone for her sin of marital sex."

Funny maybe I never had sex for my second child seeing as I had a 20 minute labour and almost NO pain!

I think liberals had better tread lightly here.
Their sanctimonious chest pounding over Palin's daughter is as laughable as it is hypocritical. There are plenty of parents in this country who have faced and continue to face this situation every day and will relate very strongly to Palin.
What this shows is that PL people also face situations such as challenged children and crisis pregnancies. We also have financial problems, imperfect spouses and failed marriages. Our children don't always turn out as we hoped.
It puts the kabosh to the argument that PL people speak from the vantage point of having perfect children and never facing crisis pregnancies.

I wish there was this much "concern" over Obama's association with terrorists. Imagine if Palin had had a similiar relationship with abortion clinic bombers that Obama had with NYPD and Pentagon bombers.

"Why is childbirth painfull?
To punish the woman for her sin of having fornicated."

Oops, I overlooked this part. This is CLEARLY not true. This is simply nowhere to be found in the Genesis text, and I"m sure it's not implied anywhere in any other parts of the bible.

"Why is childbirth painfull?
To punish the woman for her sin of having fornicated."

Oops, I overlooked this part. This is CLEARLY not true. This is simply nowhere to be found in the Genesis text, and I"m sure it's not implied anywhere in any other parts of the bible.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 2, 2008 7:26 AM

well my question-- if this were true, how exactly are MEN punished for this sin? Or is it just the woman that has to bear the brunt of this?
This reeks of Manichaeism.

I really enjoyed reading the responses to Colmes "apology".

==Everyone needs forgiveness.==

Not everybody has access to it, however. Few will find the narrow gate. I'm gonna be in THAT "few" group.

Obama should fire himself for making negative comments regarding Bristol's pregnancy. He said that subject was "off-limits" and would fire anyone in his campaign who does--yet it's OK for him to say--he wouldn't want one of his daughters "punished with a pregnancy". Think that is negative enough--I do!!

==Show me either in Christian tradition or the bible where you find that abstinence in marriage is necessary for salvation. ==

Malachi 2:15 AMP
The purpose of the union of a man, as husband, and a woman, as his wife, is the production of Godly children. This simulates the "marriage" of Christ, as Bridgegroom, to His Chirch, His Bride. The Church is supposed to produce Godly children, too.

So, outside marriage, sex is called "fornication," and does not produce Godly children.

Paul said that it is better for a man who can control himself NOT to marry, that, if he cannot control himself sexually, he should marry.

Therefore, only Godly "children" will be saved. Abstinence prevents the ungodly from producing ungodly children.

==Sex is always a sin (the ultimate sin) whether you are young or old
about to be married or single,
it is still a sin, you are giving in
to temptation, temptation of the flesh, lust. ==

This is true cuz God wants us not to treat each other as objects, as is done in prostitution, for example.

Sex is to be done in the context of marriage, for the purpose of producing Godly children [Malachi 2:15 AMP]. The union simulates the "marriage" of Jesus, the Bridegroom, to His Church, the Bride. The Church is supposed to produce children [of God], too.

Oh man, the comments on this thread are a GREAT way to start my day! LOL.

==If the Palins were so concerned about Bristol's privacy, why did they choose to throw their kid under the bus when it became politically expedient to do so? If they were genuinely concerned about making sure her pregnancy did not become an issue, they could have simply kept her out of the public eye for the next two months. ==

Cuz the Libs made it such a big deal, the Palins were forced to explain the situation. Were it not for the filthy Libs, they would've kept it private where it belongs. People like you will, however, milk it for everything you can.

When did Bristol become pregnant? At conception? Birth? When the doctor told her?

Oh I think I may have misunderstood something here... Are Monk and Mr. I claiming that sex outside of marriage is a sin? Or sex altogether? Because of course I agree that sex outside of marriage is a sin, but it seems to me that Monk was saying that married people should not engage in the conjugal act. I completely agree with what Mr. I says when he writes

"God wants us not to treat each other as objects, as is done in prostitution, for example.

Sex is to be done in the context of marriage, for the purpose of producing Godly children [Malachi 2:15 AMP]. The union simulates the "marriage" of Jesus, the Bridegroom, to His Church, the Bride. The Church is supposed to produce children [of God], too."

but he seems to be agreeing with Monk, which seemed to me to be taking, as Patricia pointed out, a Manichean understanding of things, where the flesh is evil etc etc.

Palin's future son-in-law:

"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."

"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] ass," he added.

He also claims to be "in a relationship," but states, "I don't want kids."

This keeps getting better and better...I can't wait til they tell me she has foreign relations experience because she is close to Russia...

So, outside marriage, sex is called "fornication," and does not produce Godly children.

The way a child is conceived in no way makes them Godly or UnGodly.

I was conceived out of wedlock and am saved by the grace of God.

My parents could have never saved me. Only Jesus can do that.

==Are Monk and Mr. I claiming that sex outside of marriage is a sin?==

I merely report what the Word of God says.

==The way a child is conceived in no way makes them Godly or UnGodly.==

Yes, it does. Only if the child is born again does he become Godly. The product of an ungodly union is ungodly. At some point, later, when he gains Knowledge -- capitalized to indicate God's Knowledge -- he can put himself in the position of being born again. The product of a Godly union is ungodly in the sense that Adam made him so, and, so, he must be born again, and, from the time he is born, his parents educate him in the ways of God.

I always suspected that Alan Colmes was a token liberal on Fox who was picked because he was so ugly and so stupid, and now I know for sure.

Just when you the fanatical extreme leftist proaborts can't get any lower, along comes Alan Colmes to prove they can.

Bethany,

When did Miss Palin become pregnant? At conception? Birth? When the doctor waved the flag?

Second paragraph should read: "Just when you THINK the fanatical extreme leftists proaborts can't get any lower, along comes Alan Colmes to prove they can.

I am confused by what you are saying, Mr. Incredible. Are you saying that children are automatically Godly if their parents are Godly, or are you saying that children who are conceived to parents who are Godly are just exposed to God at an earlier age?
Or are you saying something else?

When did Miss Palin become pregnant? At conception? Birth? When the doctor waved the flag?

Okay, now I'm even more confused. What do you mean?
Of course I believe she was pregnant at fertilization.

"==Are Monk and Mr. I claiming that sex outside of marriage is a sin?==

I merely report what the Word of God says."

Yes, and I agree with you, as I stated above.

"Bethany,

When did Miss Palin become pregnant? At conception? Birth? When the doctor waved the flag?"

Mr. I, Bethany is the most pro-life person on this blog.

Peach Pit 8:11am

The relevancy of your post is... what??

Thanks, Bobby! :)

Do you think you can help me understand the meaning of Mr I's posts? I don't know why but I just can't seem to figure out what he's trying to say.

If both godly and ungodly children need to be born again..then where's the other stuff coming from?

Am I the only person who doesn't see this as a huge non-issue?

I agree with Obama:

“Let me be as clear as possible,” Obama said. “I think people’s families are off-limits, and people’s children are especially off-limits. This shouldn’t be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin’s performance as governor or her potential performance as a vice president.”

TD Monk -- try reading the NT again. In confronting the woman caught in adultery and her accusers -- "those of you without sin, cast the first stone" and to the woman " your sin is forgiven, now go and sin no more".

It was the sin of disobedience that drove Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden and resulted in the pain of childbirth and having to toil or labor for their sustenance. Adam and Eve wanted to make themselves like God. Isn't that the root of all sins? "I know better? I don't need to follow any rules or adhere to any religious doctrine."

Hal, 8:50am

On this we definitely agree. I commend Sen. Obama for this. He also pointed out that his mother was 18 and pregnant with him when she got married.
At that time, biracial births were very stigmatized and biracial children were viewed as better off dead. Also, illegitimacy was not as accepted as it is today and was a social stigma.
Obama's mother faced much to bring him into this world. I wonder if he ever preferred not to have been born or valued his life any less.

Bethany: I don't understand what Mr I is trying to state either.

Children born out of wedlock carry original sin, as do we all when we are born and unbaptized. To state that they are somehow more "ungodly" than the rest of us is just NOT true. There is no theological basis for this.

And sex within marriage is not sinful - it is sacred and beautiful if done in the manner designed and intended by God.

And as for Mr. I being the most prolife person on this blog - I can think of at least 5 people who match his qualifications for this title.

"Do you think you can help me understand the meaning of Mr I's posts?"

Well, in his last post, he does talk a lot about being born again.

"Only if the child is born again does he become Godly. The product of an ungodly union is ungodly. At some point, later, when he gains Knowledge -- capitalized to indicate God's Knowledge -- he can put himself in the position of being born again. The product of a Godly union is ungodly in the sense that Adam made him so, and, so, he must be born again, and, from the time he is born, his parents educate him in the ways of God."

So my guess is that he would say that you (as someone born of "ungodly" parents) need to be born again. Now, I'm not sure if he's saying that someone who is born of godly parents does NOT need to be born again, though. I would assume he would use something like John 3 to justify his position, but I don't see godly or ungodly parents mentioned there. This whole distinction between godly and ungodly parents is unfamiliar to me.

I haven't been on for the last few threads and am only now catching up.

I see that SoMG has been banned. My heart is broken. If ever a man needed friends, it is he.

I posted this quote on another thread, hoping that he will read it. For everyone, please, as a favor to me, pray for him. Loneliness is an awful disease.

SoMG: A final quote, from one of our favorites. PLEASE read it and think about it...PLEASE...

"To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket - safe, dark, motionless, airless - it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. The alternative to tragedy, or at least to the risk of tragedy, is damnation. The only place outside Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from all the dangers and perturbations of love is Hell." - The Four Loves

Patricia,

I said BETHANY is the most pro-life person.

Bobby, my apologies.
My brain must have transposed the comment!
I'd go for Bethany as one of the most prolife prolifers! She's certainly one of my favs!! :-D

mk: it IS too bad that somg was banned.
What I did not like was the constant sexual innuendo and perverted references he always made. Mind you, this gives good insight into what's in (and maybe on) his mind alot.
This sort of crassness is quite common in the liberal mindset. The profaning of the sacred. And isn't abortion a profaning of a the beauty and innocence of life?
What makes me sad is that his intellect and his gifts are being used to destroy rather than build up people. That, to my mind, is the incredible tragedy.

Hal: "Am I the only person who doesn't see this as a huge non-issue?"

Does or doesn't? It sounds like you think it's not all that earth-shaking. Neither do I.

Is this a presidential election, or an episode of Jerry Springer?

Hal, Mary, and bmmg, I agree. I consider a lot of the comments on this subject to be in poor taste, and shameful. Support for women experiencing crisis pregnancies, and the ability for a young and/or single woman to carry her pregnancy to term without becoming a pariah are positive progress, IMO, and they're things that decrease the abortion rate, which I think both pro-lifers and pro-choicers can agree is a good thing. I'm proud that our society has come this far in terms of supporting women, and I'm ashamed to see people resorting to finger-pointing and laughing. I don't care if you do it in the name of your religion or in the name of your political agenda -- it's equally wrong either way, and it's something I had hoped we had moved beyond.

Patricia,

Make no mistake. SoMG's behavior was atrocious. He made the "choice" to behave as he did. Having empathy for his inability to love or be loved, is not the same as excusing his behavior.

I am saddened that he made the choice that he did.
I wish he would have made a different choice.

I wish we could have reached him.
I wish...

mk: as you said, somg exercised his "choice"
he's all for freedom of "choice"
but there ARE consequences to our "choices"
he's just very use to help people get out of the consequences of their choices - he's an enabler

Do you really think someone is unfit for office because they recently had a baby or because their daughter is pregnant?

I mean that could disqualify nearly anyone.

Would Joe Biden be a drag on the ticket if his wife had just had a baby or if his daughter were pregnant?

Would Hillary be unfit if Chelsea were pregnant?

It is absurd.

This is pure sexism.

Critics need to focus on candidates' records and policies not on the pregnancies of familiy members.

It is like we are in the 16th century with this reasoning.

No matter how it came about. Regardless if it came from Abstinence only or Birth control failure. Whether it came at a bad time, or to a too young girl, or to the daughter of a would-be vice president...

A new life has been created.

Celebrate.

So my guess is that he would say that you (as someone born of "ungodly" parents) need to be born again. Now, I'm not sure if he's saying that someone who is born of godly parents does NOT need to be born again, though. I would assume he would use something like John 3 to justify his position, but I don't see godly or ungodly parents mentioned there. This whole distinction between godly and ungodly parents is unfamiliar to me.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 2, 2008 9:08 AM

My sister in law is very religious. She says that when you have a child you invite the serpent into your house.

She means that in children you see some of the basest of human motives albeit expressed sometimes in endearing ways.

How beautiful that Sarah and Todd Palin have built a home built on a foundation of love and dignity. Bristol is obviously secure in the fact that her parents will love and stand by her no matter what. It is obvious that despite Sarah's political career and further political aspirations, she is about supporting her family first and letting the rest fall as it may.

I was not a big McCain fan, but I was turned on Friday by his choice of Palin. If it's true McCain was aware of Bristol's pregnancy and selected Palin anyway, he has earned an even deeper respect on my part.

Just because life is messy doesn't mean we should hide it away or render it sterile. God bless this family and their very public witness to faith, hope, love, commitment and life. They are truly a breath of fresh Alaska air in a political world that has become suffocatingly void of integrity and spirit.

Thank you, MK, for your "celebrate" post. It's something everyone needs to remember. I wish I had known you when I was 19, pregnant and alone.

No matter how loving and close the Palin family is, this has to be an exremely trying time for all of them, and especially hard for Bristol. Imagine, at the age of 17, having your most private relationships and actions being discussed at length by an entire nation. Poor girl. In a way it makes me a little upset with Sarah Palin for putting her daughter in this position. Not the pregnancy, obviously, but for placing her in the spotlight at a time when she's probably already scared and confused.

I love PeachPit's posts. Everyone of them shows how ignorant she really is. I do appreciate the other pro-choicers on this subject though. Even Hal has the common sense to realize this is a non-issue. Too bad the Amandas and LTLs of the world are so focused on anything to degrade Palin that they go out for this stupid issues.

Thank you, MK, for your "celebrate" post. It's something everyone needs to remember. I wish I had known you when I was 19, pregnant and alone.

Dittos MK

Bee,
I agree, this must be a very difficult time for Bristol Palin and her family, but if one considers the widespread dialogue about pregnancy and abortion that has resulted, I see it as a blessing for our nation and a blessing for the Palin family which is a conduit for changing the hearts of Americans. God bless us all.

I had a horrible nightmare that Obama won by one percent of the vote. We need to make sure we conitnue being fired up! If we maintain this positive energy over the next few days, no matter what dirt they throw at Palin and McCain, we will be able to keep the ticket strong! We cant lose!

I agree, Janet, that the far-reaching and long-term results of the situation are positive. Can a 17 year old see that? I hope Bristol is strong enough to realize it! I know that I was not at that age.

Sorry to interrupt crazy time, but the smart money is betting Palin quits or is dropped in the short term, maybe before her speech tomorrow.

Those of an age remember Thomas Eagleton, who dropped out as vp candidate for merely seeking professional treatment for depression.

The son-in-law to be, on his My Space page describes himself as a "f-ing redneck", warns that no one should "f with him" and that he is in a "relationship" but doesn't want kids.

This cetainly bodes well for marital happiness.
GOP family values, I love it!

That 10:27 comment was me. I have NO idea why it says Janet posted it!!

Sarah Palin's daughter having a baby:

get 3 front-page stories on the NY-times.

Barack Obama's longtime friend (William Ayers, who also started his political career once bombed the prentagon and said said after 9/11 he wished he did more damage:

hidden by the MSM.

LTL 10:34am

Get real. Eagleton was the one who had suffered from and was treated for depression, not his daughter.

What is the relevance of the baby's father? Obviously Palin's daughter has some questionable taste in boyfriends. The lament of many a mother for generations. This is hardly any fault of the baby's or Palin's. I'm sure a few ladies on this post, myself included, can count a loser or two in previous relationships.

PL people are hardly immune to unplanned pregnancies, challenged children, and their children becoming involved with less than desirable people. What is important is that Palin lives up to her PL convictions, which she obviously does.
Face it LTL, if she had arranged an abortion for her daughter and one for herself when she discovered she was carrying a Downs child, you'd be squawking about what " a typical PL hypocrite" she is.

Jasper, 10:42am

Exactly. Just imagine the reaction if McCain or Palin were this cozy with abortion clinic bombers. Oh gee, we were just casual aquaintances, we served some time on boards together, I went to their home and sought their blessing when I began my political career.

I have a face-saving solution for the Palin problem. In the 90's Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party, which advocates succession of Alaska from the US. Solution:

Alaska becomes an independent nation, Palin is the President, and everyone is happy.

LTL,

I'll bet Alaska was just a hairbreadth away from succession too! Whew, what a load off my mind that its still in the Union.

LTL,

Do you know if any of Palin's associates in the Alaska Independence Party set off bombs?

Do you really think someone is unfit for office because they recently had a baby or because their daughter is pregnant?

I mean that could disqualify nearly anyone.

Would Joe Biden be a drag on the ticket if his wife had just had a baby or if his daughter were pregnant?

Would Hillary be unfit if Chelsea were pregnant?

It is absurd.

This is pure sexism.

Critics need to focus on candidates' records and policies not on the pregnancies of familiy members.

It is like we are in the 16th century with this reasoning.

Posted by: hippie at September 2, 2008 9:51 AM

I think your right on that Hippie. I guess from a political point of view, you throw everything at the wall, hoping something will stick.

It's obvious that's what's happenening before the debates start no matter how low the blows.

I agree, Janet, that the far-reaching and long-term results of the situation are positive. Can a 17 year old see that? I hope Bristol is strong enough to realize it! I know that I was not at that age.
Posted by: Janet (Oops, Bee) at September 2, 2008 10:27 AM

Bee,
Me too. I'm writing responses to my own posts now because no one will talk to me. Life is cruel. :(

LTL :GOP family values, I love it!

Yes LTL, they are imperfect. Life is messy. Bristol Palin and her boyfriend were teenagers wanting to play at grown up, (sadly, not an uncommon occurrence no matter which side of the aisle your parents sit) and found themselves in a life changing situation.

You're obviously upset that instead of rushing off to the abortion clinic, which would have given Dems the desired opportunity to cry "hypocrite", Bristol has the maturity and family support to own up to her responsibility and give birth to her child. It is yet another example that this family walks the talk.

I'll take imperfect family values over the Dems continuous attacks on the family any day!

When our government funds abstinence only programs and the vp candidate stands by those..there is some newsworthiness to the whole thing. I just think it is neat that Palin's child and her grandchild will be in the same grade (or close). That is SO cute.

The Palin pick was a political pick aimed at the small minded one issue voters who refuse to say - which candidate is best for MY country.

I have a face-saving solution for the Palin problem.
Posted by: LTL at September 2, 2008 10:55 AM

You know, "LTL" in the shipping business means "less than load".
By the way, I think Palin has a beautiful face. :o)

Wow, the NYT articles on this subject are sickening. I can not believe all the blatant sexism their showing. Seriously, I can't even read this stuff. It just makes me sick.

Here's a newsflash to EVERYONE. Daughters of "good parents" get pregnant. It is a testimony to the strength of the mother daughter relationship that Bristol was able to come to her mother and tell her about her pregnancy instead of quietly sneaking off to have an abortion because it would be "better for everyone". How many girls do you think have abortions because they don't want to disappoint their parents? A lot. (Yes, I could dig up the statistics on 17-23 year old abortions, but is that really necessary?)

It isn't a matter of Abstinance Only vs/ Comprehensive...young girls will get prenant. I got pregnant my freshman year of college even though I knew all about birthcontrol. In fact, my mom was the type who took me to get on the pill when I first got into a serious relationship. Guess what, all that knowledge didn't stop me from getting pregnant.

Perhaps absitnance only would have in my case? Who knows. The point is that we can arm our children with information, but they ultimately choose their own actions. To pretend that Bristol's pregnancy is some huge reflection on the horrible religous right is ridiculous.

Good for the Palin family for not just being pro-life when it is easy.

Will Bristol's baby be a citizen of the USA or of Alaska when it leaves the union? Palin is a traitor..palin and simple. Get it? Get it?

LTL waxed wroth:
Sorry to interrupt crazy time, but the smart money is betting Palin quits or is dropped in the short term, maybe before her speech tomorrow.

That would be a tragedy. Throwing Palin under the bus would enrage all of the very same people who are getting so excited about her. Furthermore, it would make McCain look like a weak & indecisive leader. We had 8 years of Presidency-by-poll under Clinton, and we know how that went. Gimme a leader who can actually stick to his ... or her ... principles.

Speaking of which, The Palin Pregnancy Panic is actually a perfect way to demonstrate how true pro-lifers respond to an unplanned pregnancy with love and grace. For years, pro-choicers have been spreading scurrilous lies about the "hypocrisy" of pro-lifers who supposedly moralize about abortion in public and then sneak off to the abortionist when it's their careers, reputations, or children on the line. Well, the Palin family is proving you all to be the hateful liars that we knew you to be. Under enormous pressure, this family is sticking to its principles. Go, Palins!

More LTL:
Those of an age remember Thomas Eagleton, who dropped out as vp candidate for merely seeking professional treatment for depression.

Did you miss the point that the McCain campaign knew about the Palin Pregnancy Panic before picking Governor Palin as VP? That simple point makes your Eagleton analogy seem irrelevant....

More LTL:
The son-in-law to be, on his My Space page describes himself as a "f-ing redneck", warns that no one should "f with him" and that he is in a "relationship" but doesn't want kids.

So he's a bit immature. Shockingly, he's 18 years old. He's supposed to be immature at that age. What's your point?

Also, didn't you get the memo from Pope Obama that families -- especially children -- are off-limits? But hey, keep piling on the slime. Targeting kids will only backfire and add to our margin of victory. :)

Take your lead from Hal & Alexandra. They're providing the model of good behavior right now....

Peach Pit

Please name any Alaska Independence Party associates of Palin who ever wiped their feet on the American flag or planted bombs.

Psalm 15:2 He who walks with integrity, and works righteousness, And speaks truth in his heart.

Did Joe Biden or Obama wipe his feet or plant bombs?

I do not have evidence of those things with those two guys...

But hey, if you are ok with voting for someone that didn't want to be an American, go for it.

Since the announcement of Palin, McCain's popularity has gone down a little. The chart is the average of the Rasmussen, Hotline, CNN, CBS and Gallup polls. Obama's popularity has continued up, and is now higher than anytime in the past year.

"The son-in-law to be, on his My Space page describes himself as a "f-ing redneck", warns that no one should "f with him" and that he is in a "relationship" but doesn't want kids."

Yeah, LTL, he's 17. You know what, that's how *most* 17 year old's talk. But, shockingly, those same 17 year olds, when faced with responsibility, usually rise to the challange.

I would imagine (because I have seen it play out with several people) that the young man will get a job (probably in the oil field) upon graduation to support his family. They will surivive. Having children tends to hasten people's maturity.

If he remains immature, well, it's obvious that Bristol has the support of her family who will no doubt help her to raise her child and position herself to figure out her long term situation.

I have a cousin who's parents are very wealthy democrats. She got pregnant in college with a guy who was, shall we say, not ready to be a father. My cousin stayed in school, and her parents help her with child care. She'll graduate from college next year with an education degree, and manage just fine as a single mother. It was not ideal, but it is the reality of the situation. It's life.

I'm sure the Palins will be supportive of her daughter even if her fiance does fizzle out. Hopefully though, this young man will realize his responsibilities and become a good husband and father.

DeeL @ 11:06,

I'll take imperfect family values over the Dems continuous attacks on the family any day!

Amen!

Happy to be called a hypocrite.

Doug,

Obama is enjoying the typical post convention bounce.

How interesting, apparently Obama was doing drugs when he was the same age as Bristol Palin.

Peach Pit,

Please, like Obama, does Sarah Palin associate with bombers and those who desecrate the American flag by wiping their feet on it?

Yes,it't time for proaborts everywhere to fall in line behind their obamessiah and stop the nasty personal attacks on Sarah Palin and her family. But does anyone actually believe they will? If so, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to talk to you about......

Palin's future son-in-law:

"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."

"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] ass," he added.

He also claims to be "in a relationship," but states, "I don't want kids."

This keeps getting better and better...I can't wait til they tell me she has foreign relations experience because she is close to Russia...
Posted by: PeachPit at September 2, 2008 8:11 AM
*************************************

Again, can we say "smacks of desperation?"

So we're now going to judge a VP candidate based on the words of her teenage daughter's boyfriend?

ROFL. Seriously. ROFL.

LTL: the smart money is betting Palin quits or is dropped in the short term, maybe before her speech tomorrow.

I don't know about that, and it would be surprising.

I have read that McCain had only met Palin a time or two before picking her for Veep, and the New York Times says the team sent to vet Palin didn't arrive until one day before the announcement.

The L.A. Times says that McCain's advisors have now sent a team of attorneys and helpers to Alaska to deal with things, so there may be some worry.

I don't think the pregnant daughter is a big deal at all.

If anything, I'd say the investigation into Palin's firing of the state safety commissioner would be the real problem.

Oh mary, a new question! Actually, she does. She associates herself with those that do not want to be American. If you are referring to Obama's relationship with Ayers, I suggest you do some research on the subject before popping off.

Doyle, that is such a tired use of his name. Can you think of something else or are you limited?

I'm just glad the Palin's have the choice to keep all their babies...unlike China where they govern the uterus...

Obama is enjoying the typical post convention bounce.

Mary, perhaps. Biden was a small net positive for Obama, and thus far - from the polls - Palin has been a small net negative for McCain. We shall see.

Per discussion on godly vs. ungodly parents:

WE are not saved according to our parents' salvation or lack thereof.

We must account for ourselves.

And I have to say that I know some pretty wonderful godly young people who are serving the Lord now who were born out of wedlock.

A person's illegitimacy at birth does not disqualify them from salvation. To even imply such a thing is ridiculous.

Romans 3:23. Is anyone here exempt? I don't believe so.

Doyle: stop the nasty personal attacks on Sarah Palin and her family. But does anyone actually believe they will?

Doyle, there will always be people getting on the case of candidates they don't favor and lauding the ones they do, whether it's even remotely justified or not. Not a big deal at all.

Doug wrote:
Since the announcement of Palin, McCain's popularity has gone down a little.

This comment makes me smile. You've forgotten something....

Obama's convention just ended last week. He is supposed to be getting a "bounce" in the polls right now. If McCain's popularity wasn't going down, Obama would be screwed in the long-term.

So why am I smiling?

Because the Palin Pick has all-but eliminated the Democrats (and their convention) from the news. It's been really funny watching CNN & MSNBC over the last few days. Here's my rough summary of the MSM's coverage:
"Palin's the pick!"
"Palin's hot!"
"Palin might have done something bad with her sister's ex-husband or somebody ... we're no sure, but stay tuned for more!"
"Look, here's some footage of Palin with a gun!"
"Palin has no experience! In fact, she has almost as little experience as Obama does! Are you scared of her yet?"
"By the way, did you know that Palin's baby has Downs?"
"Still hot...."
"Hey, Palin's daughter is pregnant! Teenage mother alert!"
"Oh, some guy named Ohama, Olama, Obama, whatever ... he gave a speech. Now back to our 24-hour Palin coverage!"

W00t!!!

Naaman, it remains to be seen what Palin will do for McCain, if anything.

I hear you and Mary on the "post-convention bounce," but they are of little if any predictive values.

I was just looking at the effect of the Biden and Palin announcements.

Doug wrote:
Naaman, it remains to be seen what Palin will do for McCain, if anything.

Yes and no. I agree with you that it is much too soon to see what the effect on the polls will be. However, one effect is already obvious. Palin has energized the conservative base like nothing else that McCain could have done. And that matters.

A campaign needs footsoldiers. They need volunteers to call people, to get out the vote, to post signs, to staff events, to do all sorts of things. Those footsoldiers come from the base. Obama already has the liberal base singing to his tune. Frankly, after eight years of Bush/Cheney and fantasizing about "the coming theocracy," the liberal base would have been electrified for nearly anyone with a pulse. However, in spite of all of his many failings, Obama is a charismatic and history-making candidate. So he's got the liberal base turned up to 11. (That's one louder, y'know.)

Meanwhile, the conservative base was in danger of sleeping through the election. We were going to vote for McCain just because he isn't Obama, but we weren't really engaged in this election. Palin has changed that. Just read the comments on this blog for a sample! Palin gives conservatives (especially pro-lifers) a reason to vote for the GOP, not just vote against Obama.

McCain/Palin in 2008! (And again in 2012!)

Then....

Palin/Jindal in 2016! :)

Naaman - who knows? I've said all along that we got us a horserace.

I think a Huckabee would have "energized" the more extreme "conservative" sector just as much and probably more than Palin.

Aside from the VP candidates, it'll be interesting to see the polls after the Republican convention ends.

One thing I heard today is that Bush Jr. will indeed speak - a thing that McCain's handlers had hoped to avoid if Bush would get tied up with hurricane damage and danger - the desire to distance himself from the precious Administration is certainly there for McCain.

Peachpit, how about "The Obamanation"? Do you like that better?

Doug wrote: "Doyle, there will always be people getting on the case of candidates they don't favor and lauding the ones they do, whether it's even remotely justified or not. Not a big deal at all."

Hey Doug, in case you missed it, the buzz right now is not to attack "the candidate", but to go right after her kids! And you think that's "not a big deal"?

Woah, even the Obamanator told them to shut up!

As I mentioned (and got dogpiled on as a result) and as others have mentioned, Palin's family drama is a side issue, except to the extent that it further emphasizes how little McCain's campaign knew about her before they signed her up as his running mate. Consider this:

1. Palin is in the middle of an investigative probe over her allegedly retaliatory firing of the State Safety Commissioner.

2. She has already been caught lying about her office's involvement in pressuring the SSC to fire her ex-brother-in-law.

3. She apparently has a history of retaliatory firings, beginning with her election as mayor in Wasilla.

4. The night that McCain announced her as his pick, she used her speech to outright lie about her support for the "Bridge to Nowhere" and has now been busted by national media for lying.

5. She has links to an Alaskan separatist group.

6. The church she attends has links to Joel's Army, which is about a half a step away from advocating full-on domestic terrorism.

7. Her positions on abortion and teaching creationism in the classroom are well outside the mainstream.

She was a bone that McCain threw to the wingnut brigade in hopes that they will turn out for him the way they turned out for Bush. Based upon the responses to her that I see here, it worked. Too bad that the pick also demonstrates McCain's incredibly poor judgment.

Naaman:

Regarding your latest comment.

Boom, there it is, boom there it is.

Badadbing, badaboom.

Swisheroo, a three pointer.

Touchdown.

Hole-in-one.

It's outta here, a walk-off grand slam.

Palin's future son-in-law:

"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."

"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] ass," he added.

He also claims to be "in a relationship," but states, "I don't want kids."

This keeps getting better and better...I can't wait til they tell me she has foreign relations experience because she is close to Russia...

Posted by: PeachPit at September 2, 2008 8:11 AM

PP,
You are really grasping at straws to think this has ANY relevance to a VP pick.

Posted by: PeachPit at September 2, 2008 11:07 AM

PP, I am two months older than my niece too. It is kind-of-cool. We were close as children and I remember calling her on the telephone phone almost every day when I got home from school.

And BC is the wonder-solution you would make it out to be.
1) It fails, over 50% of abortions are committed on women who were using BC when they got pregnant
2) It is not healthy for girls to ingesting high-dose steroids over long-periods of time.

I'm definitely not putting my girls on them.

Mary, perhaps. Biden was a small net positive for Obama, and thus far - from the polls - Palin has been a small net negative for McCain. We shall see.

Posted by: Doug at September 2, 2008 11:36 AM

Doug,
How do you see Palin as a small net negative?
McCain's campaign raised over 10 million dollars in two days after the Palin announcement. What is your poll source?

Geez Louise wrote:
As I mentioned (and got dogpiled on as a result) and as others have mentioned, Palin's family drama is a side issue, except to the extent that it further emphasizes how little McCain's campaign knew about her before they signed her up as his running mate.

Are you illiterate? If not, read this:
http://www.johnmccain.com/mccainreport/Read.aspx?guid=5f9faddd-4d87-4b78-a1e9-ef2826498d31

I'll summarize for you:
* Palin was vetted
* All of the slime that y'all are trying to throw now was already known to the McCain campaign before Palin became the VP pick
* Knowing all of that stuff, McCain picked her anyway

Look, you hate Sarah Palin. I get it. She's the real substance, of which Hillary Clinton and most so-called feminists is just a shadow. She has a family, a career in politics, and a faith in God.

Is she perfect? Nope.
Is her family perfect? Nope.
Do we seek perfection in our politicians? Nope.
Is she bearing up under the strain with the grace and character that we'd like to see? YES!

Y'all need to be careful. Excessive mudslinging against Governor Palin is only going to "out" the Hard Left as vicious sociopaths. You're going to do the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's work for them. I mean, we all knew that you were vicious sociopaths, but you've had the rest of the country fooled until now.... :)

6. The church she attends has links to Joel's Army, which is about a half a step away from advocating full-on domestic terrorism.

7. Her positions on abortion and teaching creationism in the classroom are well outside the mainstream.

Posted by: Geez Louise at September 2, 2008 12:11 PM
********************************

Joel's Army?? Are we talking about the religious belief which has NOTHING to do with terrorism but with a spiritual belief based on the book of Joel which is also considere