Timing is everything

Barack Obama and the Democrat Party's decision to hold the Democrat convention before the Republican convention is a significant reason why he is losing momentum.

This meant Obama had to announce his VP before McCain.

If Obama could conduct one do-over, I'd bet it would be to pick Hillary Clinton as his running mate. He got cocky about his poll numbers and also allowed his pride get in the way of not wanting to be overshadowed in the White House.

Yesterday, Obama's loose-lipped sidekick, Joe Biden, said as much:

The tenuous relationship between Hillary women and Obama snapped when they were given a female alternative, no matter what her politics are we now see.

Obama's other problem with big mo is human nature. We build people up just to knock them off the pedestal. Obama had been on his for 19 long months. Just as people decided they were growing tired of him after the Berlin experience, along came a fresh face to speed the process.


Comments:

My guess is that Joe Biden will be asked to "withdraw" in favor of Hillary, for the "good of the party". Will he? Probably depends on what kind of enticements he is offered.

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 1:19 PM


What gets me is that Obama has been out campaigning for almost 2 years, bashing President Bush every step of the way with his hollywood and angry-leftist friends, but you don't hear President Bush whining and crying. Now that Obama is taking some criticism, it's oh poor me.

Posted by: Jasper at September 11, 2008 1:24 PM


When women learn that "Saint Sarah" as Mayor of Wasilla, in violation of the law, charged rape victims hundreds of dollars to process rape kits,
and then of course would require them to bear the rapist's child, the honeymoon may be over.

Her extremist views will alienate most women.

Posted by: LTL at September 11, 2008 1:31 PM


If they get rid of Biden doesn't that just go to show how weak and indecisive the Democratic party is!?! Shouldn't they be building up Biden right now rather then letting him tear himself down?

Posted by: becky at September 11, 2008 1:32 PM


When are folks going to realize that national polls never tell the story when it comes to the race. Likely voters in these polls do not count those that have registered in the past 9 months.

Does anyone know how much a rape kit costs and does insurance cover it?

Posted by: PeachPit at September 11, 2008 1:34 PM


Allowing babies to die on linen room shelves, that is what i call extreme!

Posted by: becky at September 11, 2008 1:35 PM


Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 1:19 PM


Don't you think that would be the end of Obama? I can't imagine it would do him any good.

Posted by: Kristen at September 11, 2008 1:39 PM


Rape kits have got to be covered under insurance and if you don't have insurance wouldn't a crisis center or something take care of it?

Posted by: becky at September 11, 2008 1:44 PM


Kristen, it might be, I don't know. On the other hand, it would really thrill a lot of Hillaryites. This is one very strange election cycle, I've never seen anything to approach it in my 64 years.

Shame on anyone who repeats the foul internet rumors like the "rape kit" one, which has been thoroughly debunked. That's a nasty way to support a nasty candidate.

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 1:49 PM


Charging victims for rape kit processing is a violation of Alaska state law and of the federal Violence Against Women Act, sponsored by Joe Biden.

But "Saint Sarah" wanted to save the taxpayers of Wasilla $15,000 per year, a small fraction of what SHE charges the taxpayers for living and eating at home.

Posted by: LTL at September 11, 2008 1:52 PM


LTL,
Link please. :)
Talk about extremist views. Sheesh.

Posted by: Carla at September 11, 2008 1:53 PM


"My guess is that Joe Biden will be asked to "withdraw" in favor of Hillary, for the "good of the party"
-----------------------------------

Now that the Obama/Biden campaign is crumbling...do you think Hillary is that stupid and accept the VP post if offered to her, now?

Let's face it, folks...what she's really after is the Presidency!

Party Unity My A** (I love this group *LOL*)...

Posted by: RSD at September 11, 2008 2:15 PM


RSD, you may have a point there. She may want to wait this four year term out, and go for broke in 2012. Obama may be stuck with Joe.

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 2:18 PM


RSD-

If offered the position I think she'd relish the opportunity, take it, and go around saying "I told you so" to every single Dem, and likely the Dems would win without a doubt just because there'd be a huge surge towards Hillary if she was genuinely enthusiastic about joinging the ticket.

Posted by: Dan at September 11, 2008 2:21 PM


This is nice....she is so caring!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-10-rape-exams_N.htm

Posted by: PeachPit at September 11, 2008 2:22 PM


On the other hand, Joe could come down with some rare tropical disease, and have to retire from the race for "health reasons", and then NoBama could pick some other proabort female as his running mate.

Joe may have some "sudden health problems" soon.

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 2:22 PM


From peachpit's link:

"Palin spokeswoman Maria Comella said in an e-mail that the governor "does not believe, nor has she ever believed, that rape victims should have to pay for an evidence-gathering test."

"Gov. Palin's position could not be more clear," she said. "To suggest otherwise is a deliberate misrepresentation of her commitment to supporting victims and bringing violent criminals to justice."

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 2:25 PM


LTL,
Link please. :)
Talk about extremist views. Sheesh.

Posted by: Carla at September 11, 2008 1:53 PM
......................................

It was reported in the Frontiersman back in 2000 Carla. Did you hear about O'Rielly ridiculing anyone that fell for the lipstick on a pig foolishness?

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 2:29 PM


"If offered the position I think she'd relish the opportunity, take it, and go around saying "I told you so" to every single Dem, and likely the Dems would win without a doubt just because there'd be a huge surge towards Hillary if she was genuinely enthusiastic about joinging the ticket.

Posted by: Dan at September 11, 2008 2:21 PM"
------------------------------------------

She might bite at the chance...but with less than 2 months before the GE and with a failed campaign to prop up...I highly doubt her people would agree with the decision.

Posted by: RSD at September 11, 2008 2:41 PM


This has already been discussed. The police chief's interest was having the rapist pay for the exams.
From your article:

"Fannon told the Frontiersman that the tests would cost the department up to $14,000 per year. He said he would rather force rapists to pay for the tests, not taxpayers"

Posted by: lauren at September 11, 2008 2:48 PM


Knowles signs sexual assault bill


Published on Monday, May 22, 2000 9:00 PM AKDT

JO C. GOODE / The Frontiersman / May 23, 2000


ANCHORAGE - Gov. Tony Knowles recently signed legislation protecting victims of sexual assault from being billed for tests to collect evidence of the crime, but one local police chief said the new law will further burden taxpayers.

The governor signed House Bill 270, sponsored by Rep. Eric Croft, D-Anchorage, outside the Sexual Assault Response Team (SART) exam room at Alaska Regional Hospital. In attendance at the signing were members of victims advocate groups, law enforcement agencies and legislators.



The new law makes it illegal for any law enforcement agency to bill victims or victims insurance companies for the costs of examinations that take place to collect evidence of a sexual assault or determine if a sexual assault did occur.

We would never bill the victim of a burglary for fingerprinting and photographing the crime scene, or for the cost of gathering other evidence, Knowles said. Nor should we bill rape victims just because the crime scene happens to be their bodies.

While the Alaska State Troopers and most municipal police agencies have covered the cost of exams, which cost between $300 to $1,200 apiece, the Wasilla police department does charge the victims of sexual assault for the tests.

Wasilla Police Chief Charlie Fannon does not agree with the new legislation, saying the law will require the city and communities to come up with more funds to cover the costs of the forensic exams.

In the past weve charged the cost of exams to the victims insurance company when possible. I just dont want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer, Fannon said.

According to Fannon, the new law will cost the Wasilla Police Department approximately $5,000 to $14,000 a year to collect evidence for sexual assault cases.

Ultimately it is the criminal who should bear the burden of the added costs, Fannon said.

The forensic exam is just one part of the equation. Id like to see the courts make these people pay restitution for these things, Fannon said.

Fannon said he intends to include the cost of exams required to collect evidence in a restitution request as a part of a criminals sentencing.

Palmer police chief Laren Zager said that to his knowledge, no sexual assault victim has ever been billed by the city of Palmer for an exam to collect evidence of a crime. Zager, who has been police chief since January, said he would never expect a victim to be burdened with the cost of a police investigation.

Im prepared to pay every dime in an investigation. As long as I am chief, I would never bill a victim, Zager said.

The new bill would also make law enforcement agencies that are investigating a sexual assault responsible for the costs of testing victims for sexually transmitted diseases and emergency contraception.

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 2:52 PM


And of course, there is no record of any rape victim ever being charged for a rape kit. But like chain letters, rumors spread like wildfire.

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 3:02 PM


This has already been discussed. The police chief's interest was having the rapist pay for the exams.
From your article:

"Fannon told the Frontiersman that the tests would cost the department up to $14,000 per year. He said he would rather force rapists to pay for the tests, not taxpayers"

Posted by: lauren at September 11, 2008 2:48 PM
.....................................

$14,000 a year? That sports complex cost what? That road to nowhere cost what? Better the victim pay for their own crime investigation than that tiny little town bear the burden.
Wouldn't it be nice if all criminals were forced to pay for the necessity of having a police department. To force rape victims to pay for their own crime detection is vile. What kind of woman is Palin? She certainly hasn't had a bit of trouble fund raising. She couldn't find a way to come up with $14,000 piddly bucks a year? Perhaps she could have thrown in that 60 bucks a night she was charging tax payers to sleep in her own home.

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 3:07 PM


Latest polls are showing the more people learn about Palin, the less they like her.

Posted by: LTL at September 11, 2008 3:13 PM


And of course, there is no record of any rape victim ever being charged for a rape kit. But like chain letters, rumors spread like wildfire.

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 3:02 PM
..............................

You mean like the lipstick on a pig foolishness? The Obama supports infanticide stupidity? People are getting sick and tired of perverted half truths and inuendos Doyle. Thinking people aren't buying what you are selling.

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 3:26 PM


"Latest polls are showing the more people learn about Palin, the less they like her.

Posted by: LTL at September 11, 2008 3:13 PM"
-------------------------------------------

Now, which liberal media poll did you get that from?

Posted by: RSD at September 11, 2008 3:40 PM


Cite please LTL, stop lying:

By 5-to-1 Public Thinks Most Journalists
Trying to Elect Obama

http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2008/cyb20080911.asp#1

Posted by: Jasper at September 11, 2008 3:41 PM


I'd think that they'd be all for McCain. Geezer is bound to kick it sooner than later, and presidential death is ratings, ratings, ratings!

I'm being a smart-a**, by the way.

Posted by: Erin at September 11, 2008 3:47 PM


Lost the Link,

"Latest polls are showing the more people learn about Palin, the less they like her.

Um, what polls....?


Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 4:22 PM


Saint Sarah worshippers: Go quarrel with Rasmussen. Their polls show Palin favorable with the hard right, equally or more unfavorable with independents.

As of today, probably only 10% of voters know of her extremist views, Mc Cain campaign lies about her record, etc. As the knowlege increases, her popularity will contine to slump, except with the extremists like you who share her views.

Posted by: LTL at September 11, 2008 4:24 PM


Enjoy the convention bounce, Jill. Obama's lasted 10 days; so far McPalin's has lasted five days and is on its way down.

Every night, there's another McPalin scandal on the news. Pretty soon, everyone will know her record and the bloom will be off the rose. 54 days to go...

Posted by: reality at September 11, 2008 4:38 PM


You know, in terms of states and electoral votes, Obama leads. Polling doesn't capture that. Oh, and if you cared about accuracy you would know it was called the Democratic Party. Just because you voted for a stammering alcoholic doesn't mean you have to take after his Delirium Tremens influenced speech patterns.

Posted by: Yo La Tango at September 11, 2008 4:42 PM


Is anyone else laughing to themselves over how desperate LTL and the crew are getting?

What idiots.

Posted by: Oliver at September 11, 2008 4:58 PM


This is nice....she is so caring!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-10-rape-exams_N.htm

Posted by: PeachPit at September 11, 2008 2:22 PM
PP,
I'm sorry, where in the article does it state that Sarah Palin agrees that women should pay for their own rape kits??

PS
why not read the whole article instead of just the "gripping" headline.


Posted by: Sandy at September 11, 2008 4:59 PM


Latest polls are showing the more people learn about Palin, the less they like her.

Posted by: LTL at September 11, 2008 3:13 PM

Source your information LTL. Your personal opinions don't count as facts.

Posted by: Sandy at September 11, 2008 5:02 PM


Is anyone else laughing to themselves over how desperate LTL and the crew are getting?

I have. :)

Posted by: Bethany at September 11, 2008 5:03 PM


YLT,

How recent are the electorate polls? Last time I checked a siginificant amount of states did not have a poll reflecting the RNC. Then again, you wouldnt look for something like that...it would hurt your flailing argument!

Posted by: Oliver at September 11, 2008 5:08 PM



Every night, there's another McPalin scandal on the news. Pretty soon, everyone will know her record and the bloom will be off the rose. 54 days to go...

Posted by: reality at September 11, 2008 4:38 PM

Which reality are you living in? Have you been paying attention at Jill's? The MSM are digging themselves deeper in a hole every day that goes by. (Talk to LTL, she thinks Sarah is a saint.)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
L @ 4:24,

Saint Sarah worshippers: Go quarrel with Rasmussen. Their polls show Palin favorable with the hard right, equally or more unfavorable with independents.

If you think you are annoying us Catholics by continuously calling Sarah a saint....you may as well give up. It's actually kind of sweet. If she makes it through all this media circus, she'll be well on her way to sainthood. She'd have to convert to Catholicism first, but wouldn't that be a kick?

Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 5:12 PM


Janet,

"She'd have to convert to Catholicism first [to be canonized a saint]"

It's technically possible to be canonized and not a Catholic, ehh? I think there are examples of groups of martyrs who are canonized but who weren't Catholic...

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 11, 2008 5:30 PM


It appears that LTL got her totally unbiased information from EMILY'S LIST ("Supporting pro-choice Democratic women running for congress and governor".)

http://www.emilyslist.org/multimedia/palin_poll/


Posted by: Bethany at September 11, 2008 5:32 PM


Sally said: "The Obama supports infanticide stupidity?"

All the stupidity was on Obama's part, for voting against the bill that would've outlawed infanticide not once, but THREE (3) TIMES, and then lying through his teeth about WHY he voted against it. Yeah, Sally, that was really, really stupid all right.. or was it just plain selfish and cold?

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 5:34 PM


LTL seems to be inferring that knowledge about Palin's dark side is reaching more people, and that early polling after the convention bounce reflected an early lack of such knowledge.

LTL is drawing the inference that "to know her is to hate her," and that the evanescence of the McCain bounce is due to folks getting to know her.

It's an entirely gratuitous inference -- not an inference at all, really.

And Rasmussen today is saying this:

"Yesterday, for the first time ever, Rasmussen Markets data gave McCain a better than 50% chance of winning the White House in November. These figures are updated on a 24/7 basis by market participants and currently give Obama a 48.0 % chance of victory. Prior to this past weekend, expectations for a Democratic victory had generally been in the 60% range."

Another poll:
http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-09-11-voa51.cfm

See here too:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/110260/Disproportionate-Shift-White-Womens-Preferences.aspx

Polls mean little for the election itself at this point. What the polls do, however, is demonstrate that early astonishment from the Left (such as wondering how soon cretinous McCain would reverse his astonishing gaffe of having selected such a bozo) was not only unwarranted, but bordering on unhinged stupidity.

Posted by: rasqual at September 11, 2008 5:35 PM


Oh yeah, Emily's List..... that wonderful organization of proaborts supporting proabort candidates ONLY all over the country, and losing nearly 100% of all the elections they had tried to influence. Yeah, that "unbiased source".

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 5:36 PM


HEY EVERYONE! You want lipstick on a pig? Well here it is!
http://blog.peta.org/archives/lovemedonteatme72B.jpg

Posted by: Jess at September 11, 2008 6:10 PM


Bobby @ 5;30,
I found a similar reference to the example you gave (on the Catholic Answers blog) where some of the martyrs canonized as a group were not Catholics. They were canonized as a group, not by individual name. There are saints that the Anglicans have named also. Interesting. I will have to do more reading on the subject! Thanks for your input! God bless you!

Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 6:10 PM


For those who don't like "Saint Sarah":
Palin was just described as a "cocky wacko" by Republican former US Senator Lincoln Chafee.

Posted by: LTL at September 11, 2008 6:12 PM


Cute, Jess! Does she have a name?
;^D

Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 6:13 PM


If that is the case, then ex-senator Chafee is a nasty RINO.

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 6:14 PM


Well, duh huh...Lincoln Chafee is a liberal.

Posted by: Bethany at September 11, 2008 6:14 PM


Aww cute picture Jess!

Posted by: Bethany at September 11, 2008 6:16 PM


For those who don't like "Saint Sarah":
Palin was just described as a "cocky wacko" by Republican former US Senator Lincoln Chafee.

Posted by: LTL at September 11, 2008 6:12 PM

"cocky wacko"-BAMA

That's kind of cute, too.

Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 6:16 PM


I like it, Janet!

Posted by: Bethany at September 11, 2008 6:17 PM


Doyle, my 6:14 post was directed to LTL, just in case there was any confusion! :) We posted at the same time.

Posted by: Bethany at September 11, 2008 6:19 PM


Bethany that's what I hope to do with my life. Carry around cute pictures and say, "Look at this cute animal. It's wearing pants! Don't eat him!"

Posted by: Jess at September 11, 2008 6:39 PM


I have this shirt and I wear it everywhere. And I say, "please don't abuse animals thank you!"

http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/images/2008/03/13/maincutehamster.jpg

Posted by: Jess at September 11, 2008 6:44 PM


It appears that LTL got her totally unbiased information from EMILY'S LIST ("Supporting pro-choice Democratic women running for congress and governor".)

*snicker*

Posted by: mk at September 11, 2008 6:44 PM


Sally said: "The Obama supports infanticide stupidity?"

All the stupidity was on Obama's part, for voting against the bill that would've outlawed infanticide not once, but THREE (3) TIMES, and then lying through his teeth about WHY he voted against it. Yeah, Sally, that was really, really stupid all right.. or was it just plain selfish and cold?

Posted by: Doyle at September 11, 2008 5:34 PM
......................................................

What is stupid is asserting that the legislation had anything to do with infanticide. What is stupid is pretending that Obama was the only person against the legislation. What is stupid is pretending that the legislation wasn't a cold and calculated attempt to interfere with decisions made by a woman and her doctor. What is stupid is believing that everyone is stupid enough to by your ridiculous self serving spin doctoring.

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 6:46 PM


Jess,

You know I have a dog. And a bunny. But did you know that we just got two new gerbils??? See, I'm doing my share!(If you don't count dinner last night)

Posted by: mk at September 11, 2008 6:50 PM


Well congratulations mk on your new addition to your family! Gerbils are wonderfully loving creatures I'm told, though I've never had the pleasure of adopting one yet. What are the two little angels names?

Here's some info if you'd like to take a look:
http://www.helpinganimals.com/animalsHome_gerbils.asp

Posted by: Jess at September 11, 2008 6:58 PM


LTL

If pregnant cows have bovine fetuses,

and pregnant dogs have canine embryos,

and pregnant cats have feline fetuses,

what kind of embryo/fetus do pregnant women have?

with any and all due respect

lame brained knuckle dragging neanderthal

Posted by: kbhvac at September 11, 2008 7:22 PM


LTL, PeachPit, Sally. YLT and all other haters of women in the womb:

Has anyone every told you that lying is a sin? No. Well here goes:

Lying is a sin.

Posted by: HisMan at September 11, 2008 7:32 PM


LTL, PeachPit, Sally. YLT and all other haters of women in the womb:

Has anyone every told you that lying is a sin? No. Well here goes:

Lying is a sin.

Posted by: HisMan at September 11, 2008 7:32 PM
.......................................

Then you had better stop lying eh HM? Women in the womb? @@
Oh the drama!

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 7:40 PM


Then you had better stop lying eh HM? Women in the womb? @@
Oh the drama!

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 7:40 PM
--------------------
I see nothing dramatic at all about born women who claim to be for women heartily advocating for the extermination of their sisters who reside in the womb. Actually, beside being evil, double minded, hyprocrtical, and illogical, it's pretty dumb killing your voting block. But not dramatic.

To the contrary, you're extremely dramatic always playing the victim when in fact you are the victimizer.

Have you ever read "Little Red Riding Hood"? No, well, "Little Red Riding Hood is a famous fairy tale about a young girl's encounter with a wolf".

Now, in the holocaust play called "abortion" who do you think Little Red Riding Hood is? Yep, the little innocent baby girl in the womb who thinks all is well, the world is beautiful and couldn't possibly dream of anyone wanting to hurt her, especially another woman. Well, God forbid, we can't have that woman think that, we'll just show her how bad the world is, how mean it is, how hostile it is, we'll just kill her.

And who is the wolf Sally in your little abortion holocaust drama? Right answer Sally.....the wolf is disguised as a harmless grandmother....whose only goal in life is to consume LRRH's flesh for it's own self-gratification. Does the metaphor ring true Sally?

My, my, Sally, now how do you think we should cast you? Show us those fangs Sally and you've got the part. Aw, never mind, you've already made the cut.

Posted by: HisMan at September 11, 2008 8:04 PM


LTL

You really don't like that question, do you?

You know Corrie Tin Boom said, The local Germans would avert, their gaze, look the other way, when ever the soldiers would march the prisoners in public.

You do the same thing. You run away when ever that question confronts you.

yor lame brained knuckledragging neanderthal

Posted by: kbhvac at September 11, 2008 8:04 PM


Sally,
Why don't you work on other life issues that don't involve abortion instead of tearing down the pro-life movement? If everyone were free to abort and did, your other issues wouldn't mean much, but since that won't happen you'd probably be happier doing something positive. But then, maybe not. Just a thought. (I'm trying to be friendly here, so please don't bite my head off.)


Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 8:05 PM


Yo his man,

what is this track back thing next to comment?

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at September 11, 2008 8:07 PM


HisMan,

The LRRH story? Excellent observation. Now I can even see a parallel between the girl, her red jacket and the baby hidden in the womb and the color of blood. Perhaps the metaphors you describe indicate the real meaning of the story. You know what they say, the more things change, unfortunately, the more they stay the same.

I heard something from a friend today that I think I've heard you mention in the past. Each time a baby is aborted, a demon is released from hell. Scary stuff, Lord have mercy on us all.

Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 8:24 PM


the Democrat Party's decision to hold the Democrat convention before the Republican convention

Jill, I think it's tradition that the party in the White House gets to go last.

Posted by: Doug at September 11, 2008 9:05 PM


"The tenuous relationship between Hillary women and Obama snapped when they were given a female alternative, no matter what her politics are we now see."

Not necessarily. We'd have to wait till election numbers to turn out. Keep in mind that Hillary told her own supporters to vote for Obama and Palin's political views are pretty much the exact opposite of Hillary's. It's kind of insulting to think that women would flock to her just because she is a woman, though it does seem like for now at least the mccain camp has presented her as a good alternative.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 11, 2008 10:06 PM


Serious question.

LTL and Sally, are you both Hell-spawn?

Seriously. The way you are intentionally distorting the facts regarding Palin, all for political gain and to ensure the continued slaughter of unborn children, is unbelievably evil.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 11, 2008 10:32 PM


I don't know why the McCain/Palin are even bothering with these liberal phonies in the MSM. There is no objectivity left, all's they do is kiss Obama's ass.

Posted by: Jasper at September 11, 2008 10:36 PM


Pretty in Pink

At the risk of sounding misogynistic these polling numbers which suggest that some women that supported Hillary have jumped ship from the democrat to the republican candidates reminds me of the Jack Nicholson line from 'As Good As It Gets' when he describes how he creates such believable female characters in his books: 'I think of a man and take away reason and accountability.'

Must be a woman thing. I do not get the 'Oprah' thing either. I give her props and creds. Can't argue with success, the market place don't lie. A billion dollars is hard to overlook.

But Hillary voters switching their support from o'bama to Palin. Must be some misplaced subliminal, subconscious anti-irish sentiment.

Posted by: kbhvac at September 11, 2008 10:58 PM


"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."

Barry Goldwater (R) Late Senator & Father of the Conservative movement

Posted by: bhvack at September 11, 2008 11:01 PM


My, my, Sally, now how do you think we should cast you? Show us those fangs Sally and you've got the part. Aw, never mind, you've already made the cut.

Posted by: HisMan at September 11, 2008 8:04 PM
..........................

HM, you are so goofy you are almost likeable. You know who Goofy is? No? Well...........
Seriously. Imagining that embryos are capable of thinking about anything is quite the fairy tale. Are you fond of sock puppets? Embryos would be what we are referring to when discussing abortion in the truley vast majority of cases.
As for the fangs, well, the orthodontist filed them down when I had my braces removed. They tended to get stuck on my lower lip when I smiled.
Your Red analogy is pretty kindergarten HM. In your particular version of Red, the wolf would be an evil man and his need to control or destroy women through deception and emotional manipulation.
The Brothers Grimm and traditional children's stories as well as rhymes are quite interesting. Based upon life's ugly truths they are. I personally prefer the original Cinderella that ends with the wicked step mother and sisters dancing on hot coals until they die. I don't find encouraging women to be forgiving martyrs a healthy message. I'm sure that you disagree.

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 11:03 PM


"But Hillary voters switching their support from o'bama to Palin."

lol. I think in the end those women would not vote for Palin. I think that Hillary voters will realize the more they think about it, that Palin is sort of the very opposite of Hilary save the second X chromosome. I highly doubt they would vote against their belief system in a national election for some sense of retribution.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 11, 2008 11:11 PM


Please everyone, a moment of reverent silence at the mention of Barry Goldwater. PBUHN


There are some times where circumstances conspire against conscience and men of good will must set aside convictions for the sake of compromise. After all we never would have ratified the constitution with it's implicit acknowledgement of slavery it we had let the perfect stand in the way of the good. Politics after all is the art of the possible.

Posted by: kbhvac at September 11, 2008 11:12 PM


Goldwater's wife Peggy was an avid supported of Planned Parenthood and was friends with Margaret Sanger.

Posted by: HisMan at September 11, 2008 11:17 PM


Sally,
Why don't you work on other life issues that don't involve abortion instead of tearing down the pro-life movement? If everyone were free to abort and did, your other issues wouldn't mean much, but since that won't happen you'd probably be happier doing something positive. But then, maybe not. Just a thought. (I'm trying to be friendly here, so please don't bite my head off.)


Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 8:05 PM
............................................

Friendly? Oh OK. I'll be friendly. Why don't you abstain from attempting to interfere with my and every other woman's reproductive life and spend your time doing something worthwhile? Oh that's right. There was no injustice, crimes, poverty, murder............until abortion was relegalized in America. Get real Janet. I do work on real life issues. Why don't you?

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 11:17 PM


"lol. I think in the end those women would not vote for Palin. I think that Hillary voters will realize the more they think about it, that Palin is sort of the very opposite of Hilary save the second X chromosome. I highly doubt they would vote against their belief system in a national election for some sense of retribution. "

A lot of Hilary voters are upset at the campaign that Obama has run, and because of this have defected to McCain. In fact, many of them had already defected, prior to Palin's introduction.

Posted by: Oliver at September 11, 2008 11:18 PM


"Why don't you abstain from attempting to interfere with my and every other woman's reproductive life"

I dont know, maybe because abortion involves the unjust violation of another human being's right?

Oh crap, I keep forgeting you are just here to try and piss people off, not to actually debate the issues.

Posted by: Oliver at September 11, 2008 11:21 PM


Sally:

You make one huge mistake in saying it's "your reproductive life".

After all who do you think has power over life and death, you?

If you have power over life Sally, then I guess you have power over death as well?

Tell me, you gonna live forever?

This too, how come after thousands of years and billions and billions of people, we don't have a few people that are let's say 200 or 300 years old?

Ya think maybe that there is something called God's will that set the lifespans of his creation?

Posted by: HisMan at September 11, 2008 11:23 PM


HM

That was a quick retort and right to the point.

I have known some Goldwater (PBUHN) conservatives. They are all charter members of the republican party. They have gold keys to the executive wash room to prove it. Everyone else are interlopers and illegitimate imposters.

Getting people with R's in front of their names is the primary concern. Everything else is negotiable.

Posted by: kbhvac at September 11, 2008 11:26 PM


Serious question.

LTL and Sally, are you both Hell-spawn?

Seriously. The way you are intentionally distorting the facts regarding Palin, all for political gain and to ensure the continued slaughter of unborn children, is unbelievably evil.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at September 11, 2008 10:32 PM
.............................

Really John? What fact have I distorted? Not one. Baring false witness is a big Christian no no John. You are going to hell. Do not pass go and no pay day for you.

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 11:26 PM


"If you have power over life Sally, then I guess you have power over death as well?"

That makes no sense.

Posted by: hal at September 11, 2008 11:30 PM


Oliver,

It makes little sense to me that they would so be upset that one candidate won over the other (when they are SO similar on the issues) that they are willing to completely abandon their party and vote for someone ideologically opposite of them. It would make more sense if they decided not to vote in protest. Voting republican 'in retribution' is short-sighted.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 11, 2008 11:36 PM


"Why don't you abstain from attempting to interfere with my and every other woman's reproductive life"

I dont know, maybe because abortion involves the unjust violation of another human being's right?

Oh crap, I keep forgeting you are just here to try and piss people off, not to actually debate the issues.

Posted by: Oliver at September 11, 2008 11:21 PM
....................

I'm glad that I piss you off Oliver. Perhaps that might lead you to think rather than repeat meaningless rhetoric you can't begin to back up with any kind of thoughtful consideration.

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 11:39 PM


Pretty in Pink

There is a scene in the movies 300 where the antagonist, Theron, renigs on a agreement he has made with the queen, that if she has sex with him he will support her in her attempt to get the senate to send reinforcements to not only save the king and his 300 but more importantly their way of life. Theron, not only breaks the deal, he publicly accuses the queen of trying to seduce him. Enraged the queen grabs a sword from a guard and disembowels Theron. Before he falls to the floor, she whispers his own words back to him, 'This will not be over quickly. You will not enjoy it. I am not your queen.'

I can just see Palin leanin in close to Biden at the VP debate, 'This will not be over quickly......

Like the queen, american women want to stick to the man. They see Palin as just the one to do the job. Biden is just the first man in the long line of men who have used them for their own political gain.

Posted by: kbhvac at September 11, 2008 11:50 PM


Sally,

You really are a Scrooge. BAH HUMBUG, yourself.


Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 11:50 PM


(I'm trying to be friendly here, so please don't bite my head off.)

Sally, that was my first mistake.

Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 11:51 PM


Sally:

You make one huge mistake in saying it's "your reproductive life".

After all who do you think has power over life and death, you?

If you have power over life Sally, then I guess you have power over death as well?

Tell me, you gonna live forever?

This too, how come after thousands of years and billions and billions of people, we don't have a few people that are let's say 200 or 300 years old?

Ya think maybe that there is something called God's will that set the lifespans of his creation?


Posted by: HisMan at September 11, 2008 11:23 PM
...................................

My mother made me and brought me into this world. I could be taken out at any time. No magical power involved. No deep meaning in any of it. I don't wish to live forever. You must have quite an ego to think that you living forever would serve anything or anyone.

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 11:53 PM


Sally, your poor attitude is your loss.

Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 11:54 PM


Sally,

You really are a Scrooge. BAH HUMBUG, yourself.


Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 11:50 PM
...........................................

Oh like ..... Boo! Did I make you jump? Didn't think so.

Posted by: Sally at September 12, 2008 12:08 AM


Sally, your poor attitude is your loss.

Posted by: Janet at September 11, 2008 11:54 PM
..............................

Janet. You have my attention. You don't have to resort to childish poo poo head remarks to get my notice. Jeesh!

Posted by: Sally at September 12, 2008 12:17 AM


Courtesy of Cranky Catholic...

Posted by: jasper at September 12, 2008 12:31 AM


There was no injustice, crimes, poverty, murder............until abortion was relegalized in America. Get real Janet. I do work on real life issues. Why don't you?

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 11:17 PM

Since I seem to have your attention, I never said that was the case, nor did I infer it. Get real yourself, Sally. I work on the abortion issue because people like you don't think it's important enough. Maybe I'd have time for the post-born, if your type weren't so focused on your precious reproductive life - and your right to eliminate that life at a whim.

Posted by: Janet at September 12, 2008 1:07 AM


PIP: "It makes little sense to me that they would so be upset that one candidate won over the other (when they are SO similar on the issues) that they are willing to completely abandon their party and vote for someone ideologically opposite of them. It would make more sense if they decided not to vote in protest. Voting republican 'in retribution' is short-sighted"

Unfortunately what makes sense does not necessarily take place.

My wife's mother in law is in fact doing so, along with hundreds of other women in her circle. They are upset with how Barack's campaign manipulated the Texas caucus system amongst other dirty tricks to win the Dem Primary. My favorite trick is that he came out swinging hard left, only to centralize himself (including claiming now that his plan to remove Bush's tax cuts would hurt the economy.) He has the Dems entranced, so he is free to court the independents by betraying much of what he promised in the Dem primary. Also the whole bussing voters into Texas from Louisiana wasnt cool.

Posted by: Oliver at September 12, 2008 1:11 AM


Janet,

Dont talk to Sally. She is obvious an average naive teenager...or at least has the maturity and intelligence of one.

Posted by: Oliver at September 12, 2008 1:13 AM


Did anyone else think that Palin did an awesome job in the face of Gibson's hard interview?

I will say that although it was very obvious he was gunning for her, that in a certain sense Palin had to expect it. She had refused comments from other media members, and has openly refuted them. I think she did admirably in the face of essentially retaliation. I actually respect her positions, beyond my respect for her general leadership. Also...after seeing her poise and firmness, I cant wait to see her debate Biden. I doubt he will stand a chance.

Now if only Obama stutters his way through the debates and McCain goes for the throat.

Posted by: Oliver at September 12, 2008 1:18 AM


There was no injustice, crimes, poverty, murder............until abortion was relegalized in America. Get real Janet. I do work on real life issues. Why don't you?

Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 11:17 PM

Since I seem to have your attention, I never said that was the case, nor did I infer it. Get real yourself, Sally. I work on the abortion issue because people like you don't think it's important enough. Maybe I'd have time for the post-born, if your type weren't so focused on your precious reproductive life - and your right to eliminate that life at a whim.

Posted by: Janet at September 12, 2008 1:07 AM
....................

There is no abortion issue Janet. Those like you have made it up to avoid dealing with real life issues too difficult to address and handle.

Posted by: Sally at September 12, 2008 2:04 AM


Janet,

Dont talk to Sally. She is obvious an average naive teenager...or at least has the maturity and intelligence of one.

Posted by: Oliver at September 12, 2008 1:13 AM
...............................

You obviously want me little boy. Or girl. Ollie/Lauren. What is it that Ollie teaches? Doiley making/machine shop at night school?

Posted by: Sally at September 12, 2008 2:13 AM


My mother made me and brought me into this world. I could be taken out at any time.
Posted by: Sally at September 11, 2008 11:53 PM


How interesting are the results of living in a three generation, anti-Catholic klan, devoted to deathsex worship.

How often did you tell your creations that you could have taken them out at ANY time when they were accuiring your deathsex personality Sally? Do your children live in the same town as you Sally, or do they live as far away as they feel safe from you, their potential murderer?

Since Hisman gave you a analogy from a fictional story, let me tell you the story of a guy that made jokes of being "taken out at any time".

The joke went, that growing up in his family, his male creator told his children that he could "take them out at any time, and make another just like him".

One child's name was goddamit, and the other child was Jesus Christ, since that is all he ever called them when they were children.

Coming from me, and shortening the joke, removes all the laughter the crowd got from this joke by Bill Cosby.

So, in keeping with your great anti-Catholic klan intelligence, knowing that the Grimm's fairy tales are about "ugly truths" of life, Bill Cosby got served his own Grimm's Fairy Tale.


CNN - Actor Bill Cosby's son found shot to death - Jan. 16, 1997LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- The only son of entertainer Bill Cosby was found shot to death ....

For years, Bill Cosby was just another liberal comic, living the abortion/contraception theology which you practice Sally. Then on Jan. 16,1997, Cosby learned a ugly truth of life.

Cosby learned the ugly truth in his fairy tale life, that one actually can't "make another" son "just like him".

When Cosby began breaking away from his liberal values and decisions of life, he was immediately attacked by smear pigs of the press.

Of course, trying to leave the "liberal plantation" always brings out the most vicicous charges and accusations usually based on the faulty definition of "hypocrite".



Soo Sally, why do you post here, since this site is a rebuke of your conscience formed from making sex into a act of death? That you write anti-Catholic statements, formed from discredited historians of the " Victorian Age", and really think such history of Catholics is always a factual reality of past events.

That if you lived in Germany in the 30's, you would not be able to accuire a conscience to know the ugly truth of your nation.

That if you lived in the USSR, you would be another product of the state education, unable to see the ugly truth when the state took away that Catholic neighbor, and never appeared again in your thought controlled anti-Catholic mind.

That your not your own person Sally, but the product of all the words and thoughts of anti-Catholicism and deathsex minds that lived before your picking up their ugly truths as a glorious way to live your PTSD life.

That the "ugly truth" of your life is summed up in one sentence;
My mother made me and brought me into this world. I could be taken out at any time.


Socrates said in The Republic that virtue can know vice but vice cannot know evil. The penalty for vice is the vice itself, the not seeing the good in its fullness, the good that ought to be there.

Can you really know you ugliness Sally?


Posted by: yllas at September 12, 2008 2:21 AM


Angry, Bitter Sally said: "What is stupid is asserting that the legislation had anything to do with infanticide."

After days and days of documentation and discussion about this issue on this forum, you still don't have a clue what the legislation said? You don't know what "Born Alive" means?

All I can say is "There are none so blind as those who have eyes but will not see".

Posted by: Doyle Chadwick at September 12, 2008 6:25 AM


Biden was RIGHT about Hillary being more qualified but he should have added more qualified than Obama to be PRESIDENT of the United States.

As for Palin forcing rape victims to have a baby?

Hmmm Her "beliefs" versus her public policy. Thought Police are CRAZY! You not only have to do what they say but you have to BELIEVE what they tell you to believe. Whoa! Governor Palin is one of those All American kind of leaders who holds her own beliefs but doesn't impose them on others. Get a grip on yourself if you believe Americans are going to let you tar and feather this truly wonderful, capable, Country First Leader/Woman.

Here is a bit of our latest post on www.CountUsOut.Wordpress.com

Targeting Trig Palin by Obamessiah and His Worshippers in The New (un) Democratic Party
Obama supporters go negative–on a baby.
By JAMES TARANTO
September 11, 2008
“South Carolina Democratic chairwoman Carol Fowler sharply attacked Sarah Palin [yesterday], saying John McCain had chosen a running mate ‘whose primary qualification seems to be that she hasn’t had an abortion,’ ” Politico reports. Fowler later apologized “to anyone who finds my comment offensive.”

We’ll leave the offense to others. We find Fowler’s comment revealing and disturbing. And she is not alone in striking this theme. Here is Andrew “Beagle With a Smear” Sullivan of The Atlantic:
to continue reading, please click here:
http://countusout.wordpress.com/2008/09/12/targeting-trig-palin-by-obamamessiah-and-his-worshippers-in-the-new-un-democratic-party/#comments

Posted by: Count Us Out at September 12, 2008 6:48 AM


"Keep in mind that Hillary told her own supporters to vote for Obama"
-------------------------------

And we all know how WELL she convinced everybody on it, right??

Posted by: RSD at September 12, 2008 7:36 AM


"And we all know how WELL she convinced everybody on it, right??"
You don't honestly think that Hillary wants her supporters to vote for McCain?

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 12, 2008 8:53 AM


Oliver,

Again I think near the end they will probably change their mind. However, should they decide to vote against their ideology because they are miffed, then they should not complain if McCain wins, even when he does what he promises to do!

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 12, 2008 9:21 AM


It's like those people who voted for Bush's second term, knowing he would act the VERY SAME WAY, and then complained the whole time about him acting that same way. That's when I say, "well, you did vote for him, and you knew that he would continue doing what he's doing."

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 12, 2008 9:27 AM


PIP,
Is it also like those who vote and the one they voted for doesn't win, and they complain? :)
Lots of complaining going on whatever the outcome.

Posted by: Carla at September 12, 2008 9:34 AM


"You don't honestly think that Hillary wants her supporters to vote for McCain?

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 12, 2008 8:53 AM"
--------------------------------------

Were you honestly convinced that she does?

You can see it in her body language...she's just mouthing off the line the DNC wants her to say, for "Party Unity"...

Hey, even my hardcore Democrat/ liberal/ Obama-voting officemates were NOT convinced.

Posted by: RSD at September 12, 2008 10:21 AM


Oliver @ 1:13, Janet,Dont talk to Sally. She is obvious an average naive teenager...or at least has the maturity and intelligence of one.

You're right. She's impossible to reason with. I'll pray for her instead, asking God to help her and all the Catholic saints to intervene on her behalf. Obviously the rest of us have no influence over her. Lord have mercy on us all.

Posted by: Janet at September 12, 2008 10:55 AM


she wants obama to fail so she can try to get the nomination next time. She probably has a "McCain/Palin" bumper sticker

Posted by: xalisae at September 12, 2008 10:59 AM


Actually, believe it or not, Sally is around 50-60. Truth is, I would expect much more from a pro-choice teenager. Look at someone like Dan.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at September 12, 2008 11:01 AM


There is no abortion issue Janet. Those like you have made it up to avoid dealing with real life issues too difficult to address and handle.
Posted by: Sally at September 12, 2008 2:04 AM

Sally, in all seriousness, it is time to address what is at the root of all of your anger -- for the sake of your physical and mental well-being.

Posted by: Eileen #2 at September 12, 2008 11:24 AM


Barack Obama didn't think about the full implications of the "messiah" theme. He forgets what happened to the real messiah.

So before the convention, Obama was riding into Jerusalem on a donkey. Now the same people who were yelling hosanna, are becoming stangely quiet...

We all know how the story ends, though I don't believe Obama's political career will be able to "rise from the dead".

Posted by: Tony at September 12, 2008 12:26 PM


I think Hillary was dissatisfied with the outcome, but again I think she is smart enough to know that any feeling of 'retribution' in another republican presidency isn't worth it. If she honestly believes in all of the tenets of the "Democrat" party she couldn't honestly want McCain to win or else that would be putting the entire country in a state she doesn't believe in. I'm sure she is enjoying all of the fierce loyalty though.

Posted by: prettyinpink at September 12, 2008 12:43 PM


"Sally, in all seriousness, it is time to address what is at the root of all of your anger -- for the sake of your physical and mental well-being.

Posted by: Eileen #2 at September 12, 2008 11:24 AM"
----------------------------------------

Wait, wait...why do you want Sally to change?

She's not suffering from any mental disorder...she's actually enjoying it...*JK*

Posted by: RSD at September 12, 2008 1:57 PM


PIP, along with that feeling of wanting to avoid retribution, there's an fairly fast "reset" for politicians.

Case in point - people were going on and on about Hillary and Barack bashing each other; well Holy Crow, look at what Bush Jr. said to McCain and about McCain during their race, and McCain turned right around and "forgot" it.

It's funny, I've always liked McCain, and aside from the women's rights issue I'm fine with him being President.

Posted by: Clem Douglas Kadiddlehopper at September 12, 2008 3:54 PM


Oops, tribute time to Red Skelton was supposed to be over.

At the end of this show, didn't he say, "Goodnight, and God bless."?

Posted by: Doug at September 12, 2008 3:55 PM


"Sally, in all seriousness, it is time to address what is at the root of all of your anger -- for the sake of your physical and mental well-being.

Posted by: Eileen #2 at September 12, 2008 11:24 AM"
----------------------------------------

Wait, wait...why do you want Sally to change?

She's not suffering from any mental disorder...she's actually enjoying it...*JK*
Posted by: RSD at September 12, 2008 1:57 PM

I'm not saying that Sally is mentally ill! But I have seen how anger can take a terrible toll on a person.
I have a family member whose spouse is suffering from a mental disorder that stems from deep-seated anger that has not been dealt with properly-- this person can not forgive what has been done to them and it is taking its toll mentally on this person as well as eroding their marital and familial relationships. It is very sad. Hopefully something can be done as they have just begun to see a Catholic psychotherapist. Mental illness can really only be successfully dealt with by someone who is also approaching it from a spiritual perspective.

Posted by: Eileen #2 at September 13, 2008 3:43 PM


Eileen, indeed - witness posts by Hisman, yllas, John L., etc.

Posted by: Doug at September 14, 2008 1:34 AM