Breaking news: Planned Parenthood offers Christmas gift certificates

breaking.jpgAnd just when you thought you could no longer be shocked. Well, sit down. Planned Parenthood of IN is selling Christmas gift certificates. And yes, they can be used toward abortion.

Can't respond any better than Matt did at LoneStarTimes.com:

... celebrating the most important crisis pregnancy of all time by selling gift certificates, perfect for the woman who has everything but moral fiber.... And it's so much easier than finding the perfect "Baby's First Christmas" ornament.

Here's the story, from WISH-TV...

Gift certificates have become a popular holiday gift option, but a controversial new one, already has people talking.

For the first time, Planned Parenthood in Indiana is offering gift certificates. The organization said a big increase in calls and visits from newly unemployed and uninsured Hoosiers prompted what it calls the unusual, yet practical gift option.

PP gift certificate.jpg

"People are making really tough decisions about putting gas in their car and food on their table, so we know that many women especially put healthcare at the bottom of their list to do," said Chrystal Struben-Hall, VP of PP of IN.

The certificates come in $25 increments. They can be used for everything from birth control to $58 examinations that include breast exams and pap tests. Men who receive healthcare at PP can use them too.

"They can be seen for sexually transmitted disease screenings, HIV tests and general prostate exams and those kinds of things," said Struben-Hall.

Some Hoosiers... asked if the gift certificates could be used towards abortions. The answer is yes. But, PP said that's not the purpose of the gift certificates.

Struben-Hall said, "They really are intended for preventative healthcare. We decided not to put restrictions on the gift certificates so it's for whatever people feel they need the services for most."...

Oh, please.

Planned Parenthood, this generation's King Herod, you know, the guy who ordered the mass slaughter of babies when Jesus was born.

[HT: friend John E.]


Comments:

well, if we had universal health care, we wouldn't need gift certificates for preventative care.

Posted by: Hal at November 26, 2008 2:27 PM


Or for abortions, Hal, because we'd all be paying for them!

Posted by: lauren at November 26, 2008 2:35 PM


So many times I want to write the sarcastic "This made me puke in my own mouth" but I'm usually able to refrain because it doesn't usually add much to a conversation. Sadly this time I can not refrain.

This made me puke in my own mouth.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at November 26, 2008 2:55 PM


I'm trying to decide if this shows more class than just sending a box of condoms outright to the ones you love. Hmmm...

Posted by: Kel at November 26, 2008 3:05 PM


For the 60 million Americans without healthcare coverage the cetificate could be a godsend:

Medical Services Provided by Planned Parenthood Affiliate Health Centers in 2006

Contraception - 38 percent of services in 2006

Reversible Contraception Clients, Women 2,441,768
Emergency Contraception Kits 1,436,846
Tubal Sterilization Clients 618
Reversible Contraception Clients, Men 95,188
Vasectomy Clients 2,913
3,977,333

STI/STD Testing and Treatment - 29 percent of services in 2006

STI Procedures, Women and Men 2,703,917
HIV Testing Clients, Women 203,478
HIV Testing Clients, Men 67,795
HIV Testing Clients, Gender Not Reported 42,887
3,018,077

Cancer Screening and Prevention - 19 percent of services in 2006

Pap Tests 1,070,449
Breast Exams/ Breast Care 882,961
Colposcopy Procedures* 47,557
LEEP Procedures* 3,036
Cryotherapy Procedures* 3,368
2,007,371

Other Women's Health Services - 10 percent of services in 2006

Pregnancy Tests 1,097,397
Prenatal Clients 11,058
Midlife Clients 11,206
Infertility Clients 316
1,119,977

Abortion Services - 3 percent of services in 2006
Abortion Procedures 289,750


Other Services - 1 percent of services in 2006

Primary Care Clients, Women and Men 19,557
Adoption Referrals to Other Agencies 2,410
Other Services, Women and Men** 140,968
162,935


Posted by: Laura at November 26, 2008 3:12 PM


How about a motto?

"PP gift certificates: When the holiday 'gift' you received wasn't quite what you bargained for. Happy Holidays!"

Okay, sorry, I'm just in a strange mood today. :-/

Posted by: Kel at November 26, 2008 3:26 PM


Historically, Herod is probably innocent of that crime, FYI.

You somehow think that abortions are the major service provided by PP. You're wrong. Of course. Look it up.

Posted by: Leah at November 26, 2008 3:41 PM


well, if we had universal health care, we wouldn't need gift certificates for preventative care.

Posted by: Hal at November 26, 2008 2:27 PM

yeah, Hal, please explain how your two abortions were "preventative care"?

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 3:42 PM


Historically, Herod is probably innocent of that crime, FYI.

Posted by: Leah at November 26, 2008 3:41 PM
******************************

Got a link with that info, Leah? I'd be interested to see it. Thanks! :)

Posted by: Kel at November 26, 2008 3:43 PM


More at http://www.lifenews.com/state3669.html

Posted by: Steve Ertelt at November 26, 2008 3:44 PM


Patricia, you're changing the subject. The gift certificates are meant to be used for preventative care. Planned Parenthood won't refuse them for abortions, but that's not what they're designed for.

Posted by: Hal at November 26, 2008 3:47 PM


Abortion Services - 3 percent of services in 2006
Abortion Procedures 289,750

If you believe this stat Laura, you are very very gullible. Very.

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 3:49 PM


no one is "ordering the mass slaughter of babies" , it's a provision of a discount on a variety of health-care procedures. Though I do give you kudos for your biblical hyperbole, its so over-the-top that it becomes funny.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at November 26, 2008 3:55 PM


Kel:

I read it in the latest National Geographic... I have no idea how to access it electronically--sorry!

Posted by: Leah at November 26, 2008 4:02 PM


Patricia, could you maybe show something refuting the Planned Parenthood stats.. or, do you just not want to believe it and therefore think it's crap?

Almost every girl I knew through high school went to Planned Parenthood for EC and birth control.

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 4:03 PM


"Patricia, you're changing the subject. The gift certificates are meant to be used for preventative care. Planned Parenthood won't refuse them for abortions, but that's not what they're designed for."
- Hal

Hal, people can give a gift certificate from Planned Parenthood to their family members as Christmas gifts.

Can you even conceive as to why that sickens us?

If people want "preventative care", they can go to a real doctor. Doctors that work at Planned Parenthood are the bottom feeders of the medical industry. That's because medical students with actual promise would rather pursue noble careers.

Preventative care... what a crock.

Posted by: Alex at November 26, 2008 4:06 PM


Patricia, you're changing the subject. The gift certificates are meant to be used for preventative care. Planned Parenthood won't refuse them for abortions, but that's not what they're designed for.

Posted by: Hal at November 26, 2008 3:47 PM


wrong again Hal. Some Hoosiers... asked if the gift certificates could be used towards abortions. The answer is yes. AND "We decided not to put restrictions on the gift certificates so it's for whatever people feel they need the services for most."...

so they CAN be used for abortions. You never answered my question. Do you think abortions constitute preventative healthcare and were yours?

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 4:08 PM


alex: yes, exactly!

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 4:08 PM


can someone delete the spammer post from 3:56 PM adverting an adult site?

These gift certificates are very disturbing.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at November 26, 2008 4:09 PM


"Chrystal Struben-Hall"

Why is it always a hyphenated last name? Ha!

Or maybe she just didn't want to be "Chrystal Hall" because someone might call her "Crystal Ball".

*Looks at "health care" list provided at Planned Abortionhood*

What, no physicals? No flu shots? No treatment of wounds? No setting of broken bones? I thought they were "health" clinics? Why does 90% of their business revolve around throwing condoms at teenagers, checking for STDs, and aborting babies?

And, isn't it intriguing that Planned Parenthood wants to FORCE every hospital and clinic to provide abortion services, but they themselves don't even provide numerous services which are actually legitimate forms of health care?

Posted by: John Lewandowski at November 26, 2008 4:09 PM


I suppose an arguement could be made that abortions apre preventative healthcare, but that's a stretch.

Birth control and cancer screening is preventative heathcare. I understand why they decided not to put restrictions on the gift certificates, it would be pretty rude to someone who has a $100 certificate to say you can use it for x, y, and z, but not an abortion.

Posted by: Hal at November 26, 2008 4:11 PM


@ John Lewandowski at November 26, 2008 4:09 PM

Actually, they do breast exams and "lady" exams, which both check for cancer. I've never been there, but I know a LOT of girls that have. It's based on your income, so most of these girls are getting exams for a $20 donation. It's a pretty good deal, really..

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 4:14 PM


These gift certificates can say so much:

"I already gave you the gift that keeps on giving. Now go get some penicillin and it'll clear right up!"

"Make my holidays happy -- promise not to reproduce!"

"Love you, honey. BTW your cootchie stinks. Go get it looked at."

"Have a bloody Christmas!"

I though gift certificates for plastic surgery were the tackiest thing ever.


Posted by: Christina at November 26, 2008 4:20 PM


If your loved one is strapped for cash, GIVE THEM THE FREAKING CASH! You can get a nice card to put it in. But the message, "Go spend this getting your junk examined. I imagine you need it!" is pretty tastetless.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 26, 2008 4:22 PM


Josephine, do they do physical examination of the eyes, ears, nose, and throat? How about checking reflexes? Checking the lungs? Testing blood glucose and cholesterol levels?

If not, why not? Aren't those "health care"? If everyone must be forced to provide abortions because abortions are "health care", then Planned Parenthood should be forced to provide those legitimate forms of health care.

I also find it disturbing that "almost every girl" you knew in high school went to Planned Parenthood. Where do you live, the ghetto? Doesn't anyone have a family physician any longer? Good grief.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at November 26, 2008 4:22 PM


I go to a different doctor for my lady exams than I do for other exams. Well, in all honesty I go to my dad for most exams.. and, well, ewwww. MOST girls go to different doctors for lady exams than for, I don't know... a sports physical.

I live in a gated community about 30 minutes outside the city of Chicago, and I went to a private high school. So, no, I didn't live in the "ghetto". But, in order to go to family physicians, you have to talk to your parents/they could find out. I don't know about you, but I don't have any desire to talk to my parents about sex-- ever. :)

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 4:30 PM


The certificates come in $25 increments. They can be used for everything from birth control to $58 examinations that include breast exams and pap tests. Men who receive healthcare at PP can use them too.

"They can be seen for sexually transmitted disease screenings, HIV tests and general prostate exams and those kinds of things," said Struben-Hall.

What is the problem with women (& men) getting healthcare services (besides abortions) at PP with a gift certificate?

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have health insurance and cant afford to have annual examinations, or STD tests done at the local doctor's office or hospital.

Posted by: midnite678 at November 26, 2008 4:37 PM


I understand why they decided not to put restrictions on the gift certificates, it would be pretty rude to someone who has a $100 certificate to say you can use it for x, y, and z, but not an abortion.

Posted by: Hal at November 26, 2008 4:11 PM

yup, downright bad manners if you ask me, to tell a person they can't use their gift certificate to snuff out that little one...

Josephine, is it not unethical to be treated by a family member who is a physician? I thought that was against the doctors code of ethics .... not that they have one these days by any means....

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 4:46 PM


Does anyone seriously believe that abortion is only 3% of PP "services"?

Posted by: Joanne at November 26, 2008 4:48 PM


I don't know about you, but I don't have any desire to talk to my parents about sex-- ever. :)

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 4:30 PM

now this is a funny attitude for such a liberal gal!
My kids and I talk about sex alot. Boyfriends, dating, marriage, the whole shebang. Of course, age appropriate. The conversations I have with my 19 year old are a little different from those I have with the 11 year old. And my 19 year old is quite eager to discuss things with me. Rather surprising for a bunch of bunged up, conservative Catholics, doncha think?

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 4:52 PM


"Josephine, do they do physical examination of the eyes, ears, nose, and throat? How about checking reflexes? Checking the lungs? Testing blood glucose and cholesterol levels?"

Why would I make an appointment for things like that? When I needed a physical for school, yes, I would go to a doctor at my dad's practice. But for most things I just needed checked out-- yeah, I just went to my dad. He's never treated me or written a prescription. For things like that, I go to my doctor at his practice. There is absolutely nothing in the doctors code of ethics about that. In fact, I can do many of those things to myself now. :)

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 4:53 PM


Does anyone seriously believe that abortion is only 3% of PP "services"?

Posted by: Joanne at November 26, 2008 4:48 PM

I agree Joanne. This figures are a blatant and very unsuccessful attempt to portray PP as your nice neighbourly family-oriented healthcare provider. Makes those creepy, fanatical prolifers look just slightly unhinged...

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 4:54 PM


Patricia, you never addressed what I asked earlier.

Do you have any proof at ALL that those figures are wrong, or are you just basing everything on your hate for PP?

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 5:02 PM


They don't accept facts which don't match their world view.

Posted by: hal at November 26, 2008 5:05 PM


Joanne,

"Does anyone seriously believe that abortion is only 3% of PP "services"?"

It really doesn't matter. I couldn't care less if it was .000001% or 100%, if they perform 1 abortion or 269,000 abortions. The fact is, this is an organization that promotes and kills unborn human beings. One kill is enough. As long as they support that and continue to do that as an organization, they are part of the mystical body of Satan.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at November 26, 2008 5:19 PM


Don't get me started, Christina.


"Celebrating the Ultimate Out-of-Wedlock Pregnancy, Happy Holidays!"

"Happy Kwanzaa from Barack Obama!"

"From Our Stable to Yours"

Posted by: carder at November 26, 2008 5:21 PM


Bobby: does Satan have a "mystical body"? I've never heard that term applied to Satan before.

-------------------------------------------------
Do you have any proof at ALL that those figures are wrong, or are you just basing everything on your hate for PP?

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 5:02 PM

give me ONE reason why I should believe PP? This is an organization that MURDERS children and harms women in many ways. Why on God's green earth Josephine should I accept anything that PP tells me. I'm betting all of their books are doctored (pardon the pun!).

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 5:32 PM


They don't accept facts which don't match their world view.

Posted by: hal at November 26, 2008 5:05 PM

and you live a false life based on lies Hal. One big lie you live with is that you did not kill two of your very own precious children. Very sad, indeed.

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 5:38 PM


In celebrating the birth of our savior born to a virgin who came to give us life, we celebrate by giving gift certificates to kill babies. We are barbarians.

Posted by: maria at November 26, 2008 6:09 PM


maria: one can only imagine the Christmas cards they might come up with at PP.
It's truly a diabolic organization run by people who are very very misguided.

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 6:15 PM


Patricia,

It's somewhat tongue and cheek. I heard Fr Tom Eutenhour (sp ??) use it and thought it was quite an apprapoe description of PP. But no, I do not believe Satan *really* has a mystical body.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at November 26, 2008 6:30 PM


All gift certificates, especially PPs, are a money-making stunt. First, they make money because they get the cash up front and can earn interest on it until the certificate is redeemed. Second, they get to keep the money if the certificate is lost, expired, or otherwise unredeemed. Third, they make money if there's still a balance on the certificate after it's used and the balance is too small to cover another service. Moreover, the purchaser likely gets ripped off by having to pay a sales tax on the certificate (paying, say, $27.50 for a $25 certificate) and the recipient gets ripped off when part of the funds is applied to taxes upon using it for a service.

Pregnancy resource centers don't issue gift certificates because everything they do is a gift. They're not in it to rip people off like PP. And they offer the gift of life, not the very expensive "gift" of death.

Posted by: The Raving Atheist at November 26, 2008 6:41 PM


Doctors that work at Planned Parenthood are the bottom feeders of the medical industry. That's because medical students with actual promise would rather pursue noble careers.

Oh whatever. Generalizations like this turn away the very women you're trying to reach. I went to Planned Parenthood for routine gynecological check-ups through college and the doctors I dealt with were compassionate and informed, and I guess we disagree on the nobility involved in helping lower-income women get healthcare. (Yes, yes, yes, I KNOW, there's no nobility in babykilling, but that's my point -- you object to abortion, not to the doctors at PP, and it's a mistake to conflate the two.) So if I know that you're (general you here) making gross assumptions motivated by your ideology when it comes to the "promise" of the doctors who saw me when no others would, why should I not assume your (general you again) various other claims are also false and similarly motivated by ideology? You want PP doctors to be bottom feeders so you say they are. Lower-income women know from experience that at least some of them are not, same as any other group of doctors. You look less credible. Score one for the pro-life movement, high five!

Josephine, I grew up in a very liberal family; I talk(ed) about sex with my parents all the time! Just the other day I had an in-depth discussion with my mom about why I'm not using birth control, actually -- freaking Amazon shipped a particularly revealing book on the subject to my parents' home address rather than my apartment address. Which admittedly was kind of mortifying to realize, but eh, my parents are pretty cool people, and pretty wise on top of that, so it wasn't awful. Really the worst part of it was that the package inexplicably got shipped to my dad's name, so he opened it and was like "WTF?" and then asked my mom and both of my sisters before finally figuring out that it was mine. So now my whole family knows mah bidness. Oh well.

Posted by: Alexandra at November 26, 2008 6:53 PM


yeah, Hal, please explain how your two abortions were "preventative care"?


Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 3:42 PM


Well, you see if a girl gets raped twice...

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at November 26, 2008 7:10 PM


Alexandra, all I can say to that is LOL.
My parents don't know I'm my business, but they do know of my lady doctor and my depo shot, because, well, they have to pay for it. But I do know a lot of the girls just didn't want to talk to their parents about sex. I've never talked to mine specifically about sex. In fact, my parents would probably be the creepiest people to talk about sex with, ever. I mean, a psychiatrist and a doctor? It couldn't get worse than that.. eep!

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 7:13 PM


What a great idea: Merry Christmas, here's something to help you kill you baby!

Geez... just when you think you've seen it all.

Posted by: Sarah at November 26, 2008 7:21 PM


Patricia, first of all, you can't ever do anything about the past. I like how you're basically taunting Hal like a thirteen year old girl.

Second of all, if you think they're proud about killing babies, why would they say they kill less babies than they actually do? Shouldn't they boast, and make it look like abortion is a common thing that isn't bad? :)

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 7:24 PM


yeah, Hal, please explain how your two abortions were "preventative care"?


Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 3:42 PM


Well, you see if a girl gets raped twice...

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at November 26, 2008 7:10 PM


nope that's NOT preventative. to be preventative an action must come before. So the preventative has to come before the conception and not after. After is just tooo late. Then it's murder.

Posted by: Patricia at November 26, 2008 7:25 PM


unbelievable.

Posted by: J.A.N. at November 26, 2008 7:51 PM


Leah:

You somehow think that abortions are the major service provided by PP. You're wrong. Of course. Look it up.

Josephie:

Patricia, could you maybe show something refuting the Planned Parenthood stats.. or, do you just not want to believe it and therefore think it's crap?

If people want to trust the veracity of stats coming from a group that refuses to even tell the truth to their "clients" (victims), then all I can say is they're perfect buyers (suckers) for that famous bridge that's been "sold" so often to so many of the same type!

Posted by: KC at November 26, 2008 9:41 PM


KC, how does planned parenthood lie to it's clients?

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 10:29 PM


"It really doesn't matter. I couldn't care less if it was .000001% or 100%, if they perform 1 abortion or 269,000 abortions. The fact is, this is an organization that promotes and kills unborn human beings. One kill is enough. As long as they support that and continue to do that as an organization, they are part of the mystical body of Satan."

Well said, Bobby!

I must say, it's rather depressing -- for me, at least -- to see a handful of pro-aborts frequently posting comments on a pro-life blog.

Thankfully, there are some good pro-lifers here who (frequently) respond to the pro-aborts' terribly misguided assertions.

Posted by: Matt C. Abbott at November 26, 2008 10:49 PM


Josephine,

Do you go to mass on Sundays? Do you recieve communion?

Posted by: Jasper at November 26, 2008 10:50 PM


"I must say, it's rather depressing -- for me, at least -- to see a handful of pro-aborts frequently posting comments on a pro-life blog."

One word from Jill, and I'm gone.....

Posted by: hal at November 26, 2008 11:03 PM


"If people want "preventative care", they can go to a real doctor. Doctors that work at Planned Parenthood are the bottom feeders of the medical industry. That's because medical students with actual promise would rather pursue noble careers. Preventative care... what a crock."
Posted by: Alex at November 26, 2008 4:06 PM

-This comment was so offensive to me on many levels.
Real, licensed male and female doctors work at PP. Just because you don't like a portion of what they perform as doctors does not disqualify them as doctors. They are certainly not bottom feeders as you so eloquently put and many believe strongly in what they do - as any MD would - that's why they're doing it. Believe it or not, folks - PP actually provides much more than abortions. There IS preventative care as many have already discussed here. They concentrate on sexual and reproductive health issues that impact women and girls so in that sense it is specialized. It's not a general medicine facility.

"I also find it disturbing that "almost every girl" you knew in high school went to Planned Parenthood. Where do you live, the ghetto? Doesn't anyone have a family physician any longer? Good grief."
Posted by: John Lewandowski at November 26, 2008 4:22 PM

-More offense. I am with Josephine - many many MANY women turn to PP clinics for free to affordable birth control, pap smears, STD tests, pregnancy tests, pelvic exams, breast exams. Sometimes youre a student away from your primary care physician (like I was), or you moved or you haven't found one yet, etc. Other times, you flat out can't afford it. Let us all remember how many Americans don't have health care. And no, John, gyno health and screening is a necessity, just like everything else about your health is. You have to get this kind of stuff taken care of. PP clinics are not just for those 'ghetto' women you look your nose down at - its for everyone.

You should actually be pleased that the 'ghetto' constituency is visiting PP clinics for BC, otherwise that 'ghetto' young woman might get preg with a 'ghetto' baby, who, of course, is so precious to you in the womb...do what you can to make sure she keeps it...until she does, and then everyone realizes the only way to support her new family is with the government's support. You know, the nice way of saying 'welfare.' And then what do you have? Another 'ghetto' baby's mama raising some more 'ghetto' babies in - wait for it - the ghetto (on your dime)!

Now it's time again to rail against all those lazy, 'ghetto' welfare moms...right? Even though 10 months ago you suggested this as an alternative to abortion. Gotta make sure they understand there's no free handouts in this country. How ironic.

Posted by: Danielle at November 26, 2008 11:03 PM


After this, can anyone question the absolute evil of Planned Parenthood?

And to think a President was just elected along with his wife who supports this demonic organization.

What else will these people do to insult us believers and Christ Himself?

Posted by: HisMan at November 26, 2008 11:29 PM


Jasper, I don't think that's anyone's business but mine and God's. :)

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 11:29 PM


"-More offense. I am with Josephine - many many MANY women turn to PP clinics for free to affordable birth control, pap smears, STD tests, pregnancy tests, pelvic exams, breast exams."

They are not free. I, as a taxpayer, help pay for these.


Posted by: Jasper at November 26, 2008 11:32 PM


Would you, as a tax payer, rather fund these or have people get sick?

I prefer to pay taxes. Isn't it all about helping others? Maybe I only think that because I'm young, but you guys are doing your best to crush that out of me. ;)

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 11:36 PM


Josephine,

How do feel about taking progesterone shots? Don't you feel like this is messing with your body?

Posted by: Jasper at November 26, 2008 11:39 PM


"Would you, as a tax payer, rather fund these or have people get sick?"

I wouldn't mind paying if PP stopped killing unborn children.

Posted by: Jasper at November 26, 2008 11:44 PM


Well, maybe you should create a place that provides all the same things as planned parenthood except abortion. Or, maybe you can figure out a way that all women that need help can get it.

Until then, I think many women NEED planned parenthood.

Posted by: Josephine at November 26, 2008 11:46 PM


"-More offense. I am with Josephine - many many MANY women turn to PP clinics for free to affordable birth control, pap smears, STD tests, pregnancy tests, pelvic exams, breast exams."

They are not free. I, as a taxpayer, help pay for these.
Posted by: Jasper at November 26, 2008 11:32 PM

-You're absolutely right, Jasper. We pay for that, 911, ambulances, fire departments, the lot. They wouldn't exist without tax payer dollars and I for one, am happy to contribute to free services that every person can access.

Posted by: Danielle at November 26, 2008 11:46 PM


Danielle,

would you still work at planned parenthood if it stopped doing abortions?

Posted by: Jasper at November 26, 2008 11:51 PM


STD screening, pap smears, cancer screen, pelvic exams among other women's health services are all wonderful things. Any sensible person, pro-life or pro-choice, knows this.

However, when there is an organization that commits nearly 25% of all abortions in the United States many people will turn against it. Many in our great country believe that abortion is murder. Thus, no organization that supports murder will EVER be supported by those who believe that abortion is murder.

This is why the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has threatened to close all of their hospitals (11% of all hospitals in our country) if FOCA is passed by Senate and signed into law by Barack Obama.

Having a pro-life person support Planned Parenthood is like having any sane person support a "medical clinic" that shoots perfectly healthy adults in the head with a magnum.

Planned Parenthood is obviously evil, period.

Posted by: segamon at November 26, 2008 11:51 PM


"Or, maybe you can figure out a way that all women that need help can get it."

Our church supports the local CPC. They care about women, and are not in the kill'in business.

Posted by: Jasper at November 26, 2008 11:53 PM


"Danielle,
would you still work at planned parenthood if it stopped doing abortions?"
Posted by: Jasper at November 26, 2008 11:51 PM

-If they still needed volunteers, yes I would. The need right now, from a legislative, volume and protection (escort) level is for abortion services. If that was gone, I would like to spend more time with the teens who visit, work with them on body care/esteem, health issues, STD screening, etc. - but that is not primarily where they ask for volunteers.

Posted by: Danielle at November 27, 2008 12:09 AM


Jasper, I've never heard of CPC. Will you enlighten me? Do they perform all the services of PP? If so, than I think that's GREAT and I wish more places had them and more people knew about them.

I have a feeling though, since it's linked with a church things like birth control would be harder to come by?

Posted by: Josephine at November 27, 2008 12:13 AM


Josephine,

Sure, CPC stands for Crisis Pregnancy Center. They offer compassionate care to pregnant women who need help, they look out for the best interests of the women.

I don't think it's directly linked to churches, but they do get alot of assistance from churches, at least our does.

http://www.care-net.org/ is a popular chain I believe..


Posted by: Jasper at November 27, 2008 12:25 AM


I'm with you Carla. It;s eough to make me vomit. PP has NO business doing anything that even associates them with Christmas. Christmas is abou the birth of a baby named Jesus, and PP is the antithesis of the birthing industry. Ughhh

Posted by: truthseeker at November 27, 2008 1:10 AM


Jasper, I think places like that are great.. but I looked all over the website and it looks like it only cares for pregnant women? I could be wrong, I just didn't see anything that said it helped with exams or bc or anything? If it does help with that stuff-- than I think that's GREAT. I really do, and I wish there were a LOT more.

Posted by: Josephine at November 27, 2008 1:46 AM


I have a feeling though, since it's linked with a church things like birth control would be harder to come by?

Posted by: Josephine at November 27, 2008 12:13 AM

so what! Does every friggin women's clinic have to dispense birth control? How is birth control related to the health of women?

Posted by: Patricia at November 27, 2008 6:56 AM


To Laura on 11/26. Since when did we get 60 million insured? Wake up, you very ignorant person. There are 20 million young adults who opt out of insurance because they'd rather spend their money on cocktails and food. There are 12 million uninsured immigrants. There are 10 million peoople who are too ignorant to realize they do have health care benefits. There are 8 million who, justifiably need care and they can get it by going to an emergency room. Planned Parenthood is a murder factory. Do some research and come up with the correct numbers. 60 million!!!! What a moron.

Posted by: michael loehrer at November 27, 2008 7:00 AM


Its one thing to provide needed health exams like pap smears and breast exams, its another to push contraception on teenagers or hide the fact that 14 year old "Susie" had an abortion, and her 23 year old boyfriend paid for it (covering for statutory rape). Or its another to push sexual immorality at an early age.

That's why many of us OBJECT to Planned Parenthood's so called "services".

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at November 27, 2008 7:02 AM


I wonder how many of those PP services are actually offered in the same visit eg could a woman going to PP to get an abortion also get a pregnancy test first, then a pap smear, a breast exam, a contraceptive prescription, an HIV test, and an STI test and treatment in the same visit? I know that Dr offices commonly offer several of these services in one visit. It would be interesting to see what percentage of patient visits to PP are not related to abortion at all.

Posted by: MickiMac at November 27, 2008 8:16 AM


There are 8 million who, justifiably need care and they can get it by going to an emergency room. Planned Parenthood is a murder factory. Do some research and come up with the correct numbers. 60 million!!!! What a moron.

Posted by: michael loehrer at November 27, 2008 7:00 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gee, president Bush said that "over 50 million Americans" had no medical coverage, and that was almost two years ago - long before the economy crashed.

Posted by: Laura at November 27, 2008 10:22 AM


"Wake up, you very ignorant person. There are 20 million young adults who opt out of insurance because they'd rather spend their money on cocktails and food."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There are a lot of Amerians who have to choose between medical coverage and food.

Posted by: Laura at November 27, 2008 10:24 AM


"so what! Does every friggin women's clinic have to dispense birth control? How is birth control related to the health of women?"


Again, Patricia. Sex before marriage is a religious belief. Not everyone follows a religion. And, guess what-- married women are on birth control too.

Wow. You want to reduce abortions and make bc harder to come by? Good thinking. (Totttal sarcasm)

Posted by: Josephine at November 27, 2008 11:51 AM


Again, Patricia. Sex before marriage is a religious belief.

Nope. It's a lifestyle choice Josephine. The choice is to remain chaste until marriage when presumably the odds are better that the woman is prepared for having a child.
Yes, I don't support birth control either as it contributes to promiscuity, disease, adultery and marriage breakdown.

Posted by: Patricia at November 27, 2008 4:38 PM


You think ANYONE would have a problem with sex before religion if it weren't a religious belief, Patricia? No one would think it was wrong if that weren't part of religion, right?

And, like I said.. LOTS of married people are on birth control. Not because they commit adultery, but because they don't want more kids. What the heck is wrong with that, Patrica? Seriously?

Married people have abortions too, and they're "allowed" to have sex.

Posted by: Josephine at November 27, 2008 11:55 PM


It stands to reason Josephine that if you are of the mindset that "anything goes" for unmarried couples then you would follow that same line of thinking for married couples as well.
PP has preyed upon young people with their lies and you and others like you have bought it. Sleep with whomever you want, whenever you want, use BC if you want. PP will be there for you and your girlfriends to clean up your STD's and your unwanted pregnancies. They hide behind the lie that they "help women."

PP is a business that relies on repeat customers like yourself.

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 7:13 AM


Patricia do you support contraception within a marriage????????

Jasper, CareNet is most definitely linked with religion. Check out their mission statement on the website. And they are trying to get their abstinence-only teachings into public schools now as well. That's not good. But I highly suspect the federal money for abstinence-only sex ed will be cut with the new gov't and this will become less of an issue.

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 9:14 AM


It must be some kind of conspiracy, asitis. Trying to teach young people self control, respect for themselves and others, personal responsibility...sheesh. The nerve.

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 10:09 AM


I'm all for that Carla! But at the same time I am realistic and strongle believe that we need to teach about contraception and make it accessible. Just because it is taught starting in middle school and into high school does not mean students are encouraged to have sex at a young age. It just means they have the knowledge when they do choose to have sex. And it catches those that do have sex at an early age (and yes, this happens and always has happened) before it is too late.

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 10:17 AM


Carla, I have aquestion for you. You started having sex at a very young age. Had you received complete sex education by then? If you hadn't, do you think it would have made a difference if you had (ie would you have used birth control)? Obviously your response will not be applicable to all situations because not all involve the abuse, drugs, etc that yours did. But I am curious. And no, I am not being mean.

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 10:21 AM


So what I hear you saying is that tell kids to wait but if they CAN'T or WON'T then tell them all about BC, which doesn't protect them from STD's and unplanned pregnancy. BC fails.
Talk about a mixed message.
I also have a really hard time with saying that it's ok for those that have sex at an early age(9,10,11 years old?) because yes it happens and always has happened. It's called rape.

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 10:25 AM


I was 17. I had zero sex education. It was not sex I was wanting. It was affection, attention and the affirmation that I did not receive in my home.

I appreciate that you are not being mean. :) I won't be mean either.

It is really hard for me to wonder WHY about my life and the choices I have made. It is a really tough call for even me to make. Does that make sense?

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 10:32 AM


I too have a hard time with anyone saying sex is okay at 9, 10, 11 years old. Though I can't say I ever heard ANYONE say it's okay at that age!!! Have you? Where do you live???

Sure birth control can fail. Especially if it's not used correctly. That's why education is so important. But it works way, way better than not using contraception at all.

I've been having sex for 24 years, being on teh pill the whole time. Only time I got pregnant was when I went off the pill because I wanted to get pregnant. For me BC has been 100% effective for 24 years.

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 10:33 AM


But if you HAD received comprehensive sex ed by 17 Carla, do you think you would have used BC?

The reason I ask Carla is because theer are many teenagers in situations similar to yours at that age.

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 10:36 AM


I must apologize asitis. I assumed you were a man. Sorry about that. :)
At 17 I had been pressured by my boyfriend for more than a year. He was older than me and he wanted me to "prove my love." I felt powerless. Like so many other times in my life. I used BC after some pregnancy scares. I went off it soon after he broke up with me. I do know that if someone had taken me aside and addressed my REAL issues...lack of self esteem, abusive home, vulnerability I may have been stronger and had some moral ground to stand on. Moral ground to stay abstinent.

I live in WI. I don't hear people say 9 years old is fine to have sex. I hear this. People have sex at younger and younger ages...kind of like oh, well. That is just the way it is. I can almost picture the shrugging of shoulders.

I will tell my children and all their friends and friends of friends that it is ok to wait. Their sexuality is a gift.

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 10:45 AM


If you are committed to waiting there is no need for BC is there? I have seen many young people hold themselves and others in higher regard. They do not put themselves in tempting situations. They commit to saving themselves.

I applaud it.

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 10:49 AM


I can't imagine ANYONE shrugging their shoulders about kids having sex at 9, 10, 11, 12 years old Carla. That is not the world I know. I suspect the rate is very very low. The only stat I could find was that below 15 years, 13% reported having sex. One would think this was mostly 14, 15 year olds.

Facts (from Guttmacher Institute) are though that 50% of teens 15-19 years are sexually active. And at 19 years it becomes 70% and the rate rises quickly from there.

You didn't answer my question: Would you have PROPERLY used BC had you had had the sex ed Carla?

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 11:05 AM


Funny you assumed I was a man Carla. Why do you think you did?

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 11:07 AM


asitis didn't sound exactly feminine to me I guess? Couldn't tell from your post.

Thought I did answer. I did "properly" use BC at the age of 17.

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 11:29 AM


Carla, PP in no way relies on me. I've never been there. PP offers BC and they happen to offer abortions. If PP went out of business, girls could still go to hospitals for abortions.. and maybe not able to afford BC. That's not okay to me.

Posted by: Josephine at November 28, 2008 11:42 AM


I know asitis you asked if I correctly used BC and I said I did. But BC hardly protected me from a wounded spirit.

Hi Josephine. They offer abortions because BC fails. The big bucks are in the killin. Killin is not okay to me.

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 11:45 AM


"Asitis" is short for my full name "Saying it as it is"!

Carla, it sounded to me like you were using BC sporadically. Were you using it when you got pregnant and had the abortion?

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 11:46 AM


Obviously not. :) I was 24 by then. An adult who should have done the responsible thing and had my baby.

I know you are trying to prove your point. :) Shower me in condoms and BC and information and all would have been well for Carla, right??

How about info on abortion?? I wasn't told A THING about the risks of an abortion but nobody seems too whacked about that.

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 11:50 AM


When a vaginal birth costs about $8000 and an abortion about $1000, why do you keep saying the big bucks are in abortion?

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 11:51 AM


So failed birth control was not the cause of your abortion Carla.

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 11:53 AM


It's sounds like you had more reasons than an unplanned pregnancy making you not alright Carla. So, no, I don't think having sex ed and using BC would have have solved all your problems. But it could have kept you from getting pregnant and having the abortion which seems to have contributed to the bad place you had to work hard to get out of. And I do admire you for that Carla.

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 12:00 PM


No, failed BC was not the Cause of my abortion. Is there a point there?

Having sex and using BC certainly didn't help did it? What problems has sex ever solved??
We all have issues, asitis. Living in an abusive home, raising myself from the age of 10, etc. etc. led me to where I am today. I was on the fast track to self destruction. You mentioned the other day about my troubled life. I choose to see it as a blessing where I am today and a wisdom I would not have otherwise. My children already benefit from that wisdom. :)
Thank you for your last line.

Abortion is a business, marketed as health care. Tiller charges up to $5,000 for a late term abortion. He does them up to the due date. He profits from that does he not? Who makes money on live births? Insurance? Oh, and me. I get to take home the baby!! :)
We might have to agree to disagree on that.

Can I ask how old you are? Do you have 1 child?

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 12:53 PM


Wait. You said Sex ed and BC. I said sex and BC. Whoops.
It is really hard for me to go back there though and say If only I had used BC correctly I wouldn't have gotten pregnant and wouldn't have had an abortion.....how do I know that? How do you know that? Ya know?

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 12:57 PM


how do I know that? I don't know that for sure. But there's an excellent chance that if you had received the education and were using the contraception all the time and correctly, you would not have got pregnant and you would not have had an abortion.

I am 44 . So that means I was 20 when I first had sex. I have no regrets about the sex I had with my husband before we were married nor that with any other men. In fact, I'm glad I didn't wait (shockers!!!!) I bet most women feel the same way - they just don't want their kids to know! Oh, and I have two children one in middle school and one in high school.

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 4:23 PM


There is an excellent chance that if someone had loved me unconditionally and mentored me and told me I was worth the wait I would have waited. I would have thought more of myself and saved myself. I would have focused on other more worthwhile pursuits. I don't think we are seeing eye to eye on my life. ha Click on my green name. Welcome to my world.

Most women I know wish that their husbands had been the first.

One in middle school and one in high school?! I will pray for you!! :)

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 4:53 PM


Carla, I'm not passing any kind of judgement on your life at all. Please don't misunderstand me. It's not a case of seeing eye to eye on your life. That's not to say we see eye to eye on everything. It seems we have very different histories, lives and beliefs. And yet we are both good women who are mothers, wives and want the best for our families and others.

That is sad that most women you know had bad experiences and have regrets. It certainly isn't what I have ever heard from any of my friends.

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 7:15 PM


Josephine, I made this point in another thread, but in case you don't see it I'll post it here as well.

There are TONS of reasons outside of religion to not have sex before marriage. "Safe" sex isn't really safe. Condoms can not protect against diseases that are spread via skin contact and not bodily fluids. This means that even if you're having "safe" sex, you're still vunerable to be exposed to HPV and Herpes. I think it goes without saying that condoms and BC don't adequately "protect" women from unwanted pregnancy given the abortion statistics in our country.

No condom in the world can protect someone from the mental anguish that "free sex" has wraught. Even people who are OK w/ sex outside of marriage suffer concequences from sex.

There are tons of practical reasons to avoid sex outside of marriage that have nothing to do with religion.

Posted by: Lauren at November 28, 2008 8:43 PM


I guess I wonder how sleeping around at a young age "helped" me? I am not taking our conversation as judgment so that's ok. We are both pondering my life though and wondering what could, would, should have been....kinda moot. Except for the simple fact that my past regret and experiences keep me here. Talking about abortion and trying to reach out to women that are hurting from theirs. I have been given a great opportunity and will not squander it.

Yes, being a wife and mom provides some of the greatest joys and greatest challenges so far! I do want what is best for them, which is why I tell them what you know I will tell them. :)

It is a regret that I share with my friends. We wish we would have waited for our wedding night.
Do you wish you would have slept with more people before you got married? Just curious.

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 8:44 PM


Awesome post, Lauren!

Posted by: Carla at November 28, 2008 8:53 PM


Thanks, Carla!

Posted by: lauren at November 28, 2008 8:58 PM


Do I wish I'd slept with more people before married? I never really thought about it. I can't say for sure to be honest. But I bet if you ask someone who hadn't slept with anyone but their spouse, they'd have an answer for youright away...... And maybe not what you are hoping for!

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 9:48 PM


Really, asitis? Everyone I know who has slept with only his or her spouse is happy with that decision. The only people I know with regrets are the ones who slept with other people first.

Posted by: lauren at November 28, 2008 10:11 PM


Do I wish I'd slept with more people before married? I never really thought about it. I can't say for sure to be honest. But I bet if you ask someone who hadn't slept with anyone but their spouse, they'd have an answer for youright away...... And maybe not what you are hoping for!

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 9:48 PM

as a person who has slept with only one person, the man I was married to, I am very very glad I never slept with any other man either before or since.
my friends who had many partners prior to marriage without exception all wish they had remained chaste prior to marriage. Several had babies outside of marriage and one caught an incurable std. All have stated that these previous sexual encounters affected sexual intimacy with their spouses.

Posted by: Patricia at November 28, 2008 10:45 PM


how do I know that? I don't know that for sure. But there's an excellent chance that if you had received the education and were using the contraception all the time and correctly, you would not have got pregnant and you would not have had an abortion.

Well we do KNOW one thing absolutely for sure: if Carla ( or any other woman in her situation) had remained chaste she DEFINITELY would not have had the abortion. Chance would never have been involved.

Posted by: Patricia at November 28, 2008 10:52 PM


My husband and I are the only ones that either of us has ever been with. And we held on to that "old notion" of waiting till our wedding night. Am I sorry?

Well, let me think: I'm the only one of my friends who did not have to deal with some sort of heartbreak, because they were sexually active, on birth control, and I wasn't. And frankly, they were miserable. They told me so. They wanted to stop, but felt trapped. It was a very sad thing to watch and hear about. :( Sex became the entirety of their high school and college relationships. They didn't end up marrying any of those partners.

I've also had at least three friends who have gotten HPV and had pre-cancerous cells removed from their cervixes. All of them had more than three sex partners by the age of 20.

I was pressured for sex while in high school on more than one occasion. I got out of the situation quickly because I knew I did not want to end up a miserable, overly emotional wreck like my friends were.

So, no, I am not sorry. My friends know that I waited, and my "old notions" don't seem as uncool to them today, after all they've been through, as they did back in high school. I have zero worries. It's a blessing.

Posted by: Kel at November 28, 2008 11:51 PM


The people who defend PP are phonies. The cynical irony of abortion at Christmas time is obvious to everyone, including them. Trying to find some loophole in the pro-life argument is just pharisaical hair-splitting. PP is evil, pure and simple. Doing pap smears and breast checks doesn't justify their existence. A SPOONFUL OF REAL HEALTHCARE HELPS THE MURDER GO DOWN!

Posted by: jim at November 29, 2008 3:51 AM


Thank you Kel, Lauren, and Patricia! I love hearing your perspective as well! I am thankful for you! Have you guys ever read The Thrill of the Chaste by Dawn Eden?

asitis, I appreciate your honesty and I thank you for the dialogue. No BC in the world can protect a young girl from a broken heart, broken dreams, a wounded spirit and a loss of self esteem that comes with sleeping around. I could have been chaste!!

Posted by: Carla at November 29, 2008 7:01 AM


Having sex before marriage does not have to equal low self esteem, loss of spirit and broken hearts. It certailny isn't the case for most women Carla.

Posted by: asitis at November 29, 2008 8:13 AM


Ok. Keep thinking that. I will keep thinking something totally different. :)

Posted by: Carla at November 29, 2008 8:21 AM


Carla we have already established that your experience was much, much different than mine and the women I know. It's not surprising that we would feel differently on this issue.

Posted by: asitis at November 29, 2008 8:50 AM


asitis: Carla's experience is actually the norm. In fact it is so much the norm that there is a significant problem with women on university and college campuses in the US. Enough of a problem and so politically incorrect that a doctor who treated these women had to publish her findings and theories anonymously for fear of reprisals.
The whole sexual revolution is built upon the premise that women must be men - we must behave like men sexually (men have the greater tendency to take rather than give which is what women do)and we must stifle our ability to have babies - that is our built in design, inherent to our physical and emotional make-up. The results have shown this to be disastrous.

Posted by: Patricia at November 29, 2008 8:59 AM


Oh really? I find that hard to beleive. I'd like to see this doctor's paper. Can you give me a link.

Patricia, it's not the norm. We MUST stifle our ability to have babies? No Patricia, we choose to. Look, we have already heard that you are against birth control whether married or not. You have a very different view on society and sexuality than the norm. You live outside the norm. That's fine. Honestly. Just don't try to tel us what the norm is Patricia.

Posted by: asitis at November 29, 2008 9:05 AM


asitis, the book is called "unprotected."

There is also a follow up book, but I don't recall the name off the top of my head.

Posted by: lauren at November 29, 2008 9:15 AM


Lauren, I left a question re: pregnancy rate for you on another post

Posted by: asitis at November 29, 2008 9:18 AM


Oh, I didn't know there was a follow-up book, Lauren. Let us know if you find out the title. I'd love to read that one.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at November 29, 2008 9:19 AM


asitis, I just answered at that post.

Bobby, I just found the follow up on Amazon, it's called:

You're Teaching My Child What?: A Physician Exposes the Lies of Sex Ed and How They Harm Your Child

Posted by: lauren at November 29, 2008 9:27 AM


thanks lauren! I don't have the time today to delve into this more - it's one of my few days off and I'm going for retail therapy!!

In “Unprotected: A Campus Psychiatrist Reveals How Political Correctness in Her Profession Endangers Every Student,” “Dr. Anonymous” wrote that the endemic problems mystifying educators and health professionals, are caused by the politically correct approval of rampant sexual promiscuity that characterizes college life. The book was released this week by Sentinel, a division of Penguin Group (USA) Inc.

"Young women in college in the US and Canada suffer from an epidemic of depression, eating disorders and even self-mutilation and suicidal thoughts and behavior. Campus health professionals, steeped in the politically correct doctrines of sexual “freedom” and feminist theory, fail even to acknowledge the existence of the real cause.

Dr. Anonymous, who chose to keep her identity secret out of fear of professional reprisal, identifies the damage done to women by the feminist ideology that proposes women are psychologically identical to men and encourages sexual promiscuity – as long as it is made “safe” with a condom.

“I'm discussing a taboo topic here: the dangers of radical social agendas in my profession… Campus counselling centers are whitewashing the painful consequences of casual sex, STDs and abortion. They are promoting the notion that men and women are the same.”

Counsellors at college health centres focus on sexual orientation, molestation, cigarettes and caffeine. Campus doctors pester students about smoking, diet, and wearing sunscreen, but do nothing to stop sexual promiscuity and say little about the dangers of sexually transmitted infections. Abortion is treated only as a women’s rights issue and is rarely regarded as a psychological health risk.

Dr. Anonymous writes that the psychological field is still dominated by an irrational prejudice against religious faith that she calls “Theophobia,” that thwarts efforts to relieve women’s suffering.

In fact, I experienced much of what this doctor is talking about when I was in university as a grad student in the 1980's!
My supervisor made sexual overtures to me and when I didn't accept them, my funding was cut off. I had to go out and work while doing my research. I became very ill and I had two doctors fighting over whether I had thyroid disease. The one doctor, a young resident pleaded with me not to take the medicine and told me that he had encountered "hundreds" of young women with my "illness" on campus. Remember this was the 1980's - years before this book was published.

Posted by: Patricia at November 29, 2008 9:27 AM


Bobby! your amazon wish list is incredible!
I'm lurking on it to try to find something interesting to read!
My girlfriend started a bookclub- last night was our first meeting to plan out what to read.

Posted by: Patricia at November 29, 2008 9:29 AM


Excellent! Thanks Lauren.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at November 29, 2008 9:31 AM


no problem, Bobby. :)

Posted by: lauren at November 29, 2008 9:32 AM


"Bobby! your amazon wish list is incredible!"


"Out of control" would be more accurate. Do you know what kind of book y'all are thinking about? Theology, pro-life, apologetic, interior life,Mary, etc? I might be able to give some suggestions rather than have you sift through 45 pages of wishlist books...

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at November 29, 2008 9:34 AM


hey, there's 47 pages mister!
nah, this stuff is for me!
we have a very wide range of ability in our group and we are starting with Dorothy Sayers "Strong Poison"
have you read any of joseph pieper's books though?
we have one in our library on Catholic women

Posted by: Patricia at November 29, 2008 9:39 AM


I have not read any of Pieper yet, though I do plan on it, someday... I think he's supposed to be good, ehh?

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at November 29, 2008 9:43 AM


I don't know. I'm wondering. We have a book entitled The Catholic Woman: Difficult Choices in a modern world.
The Publisher's Weekly review states:
``The wide rainbow of views held by Catholic women who consider themselves practicing and loyal members of their Church,'' is the subject of this anecdotal and informal polling by an ``insider.'' Pieper, whose twin sister and brother are, respectively, a nun and a priest, tracks an unevenly growing feminism within the church through which some women are challenging the hierarchical practices of the institution. Most of the women interviewed here, all of whom are middle- or upper-middle-class, disagree with some Church teachings (e.g., about contraception). They see themselves not as radical feminists, but as women seeking full participation in church life. In some instances, they form their own communities of worship and spiritual support. The anecdotes are expressive, the tone non-judgmental in this lively articulation of the difficulties faced by many adult Catholic women in relating to their Church.

hmmmm, I wonder. I guess I'll just have to browse the book the next time I'm into the branch that has it.

Posted by: Patricia at November 29, 2008 9:48 AM


That sounds pretty interesting, and a great topic. Catholic women are the BEST. Did you check amazon reviews of the book by regular people? Those can usually be fairly informative.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at November 29, 2008 9:50 AM


I will do that. But now, I'm off for a day of fun! Have a great day. Maybe I will check in later this evening while cleaning my house! And I've got a comment for MK's book club to do - it's been in the works for 3 days now! :-D

Posted by: Patricia at November 29, 2008 9:56 AM


Have a good one Patricia!!!

Posted by: Carla at November 29, 2008 10:16 AM


hey I did! Got a few bargains and got my books from amazon.ca today! Yes!

Posted by: Patricia at November 29, 2008 5:47 PM


I almost feel sorry for the pro-choice crowd around Christmas. Christmas must be especially blue when you think you have a right to tear babies from your womb while celebrating the "birth" of the infant king Jesus. Such shallow love and hollow faith...

Posted by: truthseeker at November 30, 2008 4:48 PM


Truthseeker - you seem sad all the time. in fact a lot of conservatives on this board seem to carry a lot of bitterness. A lot of anger. What a dull life it must be with such pervasive unhapiness. How little faith you must have if your God is so small that you think God is only "in control" when your cronies are in control. If God is love then surely he\she\it is bigger than anything we can throw at he\she\it. Where is the faith if there is not joy, where is faith if there is not hope, where is the faith if there is not wonder? You think you know so much, but that assurance of your political rightness and the moral turpitude of those who you have never met inspires my pity. Even the poorest person on the street has more hope than you who have everything. What a sad person you must be.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at December 1, 2008 6:01 PM


Yo La Tengo - good points. From what I've seen the Pro-Choicers are pretty cheerful, like some of the Pro-Lifers. Then, indeed, there is the bitterness you note among quite a few others.

Posted by: Doug at December 1, 2008 7:11 PM


====Do I wish I'd slept with more people before married? I never really thought about it. I can't say for sure to be honest. But I bet if you ask someone who hadn't slept with anyone but their spouse, they'd have an answer for youright away...... And maybe not what you are hoping for!

Posted by: asitis at November 28, 2008 9:48 PM====

I know I'm coming to this topic late, but my wife and I are each other's first and only lover and that was after the wedding. Our only regrets are the other people we had dated and kissed, and our own unchaste moments while we were dating and engaged.

Ignorance is certainly bliss for us when it comes to knowing other people physically. We could be the best lovers in the world or the worst; we don't care. All we know is, we're very happy and keep the home fires burning high.

Posted by: Michael at December 2, 2008 2:03 PM


So,so,so sad how far we have come from the truth! We have been so covered with lies we can no longer see the truth. As to pro lifers being sad and pro choicers being happy. I experience more joy in my life than most probably ever will but you better believe I'm sad as well. Sad for the millions of babies mutilated, sad for the millions of parents suffering from the effects of their decision to abort... and they don't even realize how it will impacted their lives years later. I am sad for God too...how disappointed he must be that we refuse his wonderful GIFT of life. Yes, it is a gift and I hope you appreciate yours.

Posted by: Val at December 4, 2008 6:16 AM


Val, I do think you are a joyous person.

Don't know that you are more joyous that the average Pro-Choicer, but to be sure you're not all whining bitterness.

But then, we do have a lot of Pro-Lifers who are real grouches....

Posted by: Doug at December 4, 2008 11:36 PM


Honestly..some people are just grouchy and some are joyous, I don't think it has much to do with whether you are pro-life or pro-death. If you are grouchy...you are probably grouchy about a lot of things reguardless. The heart of the issue here is that so many are suffering because of the lies. Lies that tell you abortion is going to fix your problem...give you a way out when you are scared of what having a baby means for your life... all it really does is destroy lives, the babies. the mothers, and EVERYONE else involved in the process. This is the truth no matter what words you use to mask it...choice, healthcare, whatever ...opinions are opinions but truth is truth...abortion kills!

PP is EVIL!!... and the gift certificate thing is disgusting...period.

Posted by: Val at December 5, 2008 7:54 AM