We get the elected officials we deserve.

Rank corruption in the ranks of proabort politicians? Say it ain't so, Jill!

Although I feel very sorry for his two daughters my husband and I turned on the TV this morning to this news and just had to laugh. For him to do this while already under investigation is incomprehensible! As they say, stupid is as stupid does.

Woo hoo!!! It's about time. I think that today is a day that both pro-choice and pro-life Illinoisans can celebrate.

I can't wait to see the back of this guy.

If he leaves, who replaces him? Anyone good?

No, IL pro-aborts are NOT celebrating today. Blago was definitely one of their important go-to guys. And I'm hoping some of their major players are implicated along with him.

I like how Democrat is bolded. Like that's why he got arrested, like it's to be expected because he's a democrat not just a democrat.

Well, except that I'm an Illinois resident who is pro-choice, and I'm celebrating. I must just be that one exception, huh? Except for all my friends who are pro-choice...and all my business associates...

Josephine, I believe Jill bold's certain words in order to better tell the story if someone is just glancing at the article.

Josephine, I believe Jill bold's certain words in order to better tell the story if someone is just glancing at the article.

Jill,
Do live in chicago? Doesn't the odor of Rezco, Obama, Pfleger, Wright, Jackson, blagojevich, Ayers, Dohrn, zell overwhelm the old stockyards smell? We have a little cell of ethics violaters coming appart.

xppc, I live in a southwest suburb of Chicago. This guy is such bad news, particularly on the life issue. Always displayed such chutspah.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/acrobat/2008-12/43789434.pdf

Read the case. This is for the most part, years of trouble. It almost reads like the Senate appointee will get on lucrative boards like Michelle got on lucrative board positions.

These arrogant pro-abort Democrats think they can get away with anything.

let's see if the MSM mentions the word-Democrat...usually they only mention party name if it's a republican.

This guy is no friend of Obama's.

Obama: "If the governor asks me to work on his behalf, I'll be happy to do it." (John Patterson, "Senator Says He's Still Willing To Help Blagojevich Despite Hiring Concerns," Chicago Daily Herald, 7/27/06)

Obama: "We've got a governor in Rod Blagojevich who has delivered consistently on behalf of the people of Illinois." (Deanna Bellandi, "Illinois Democrats Talk Unity But Don't Show It," The Associated Press, 8/16/06)http://www.barackbook.com/Profiles/GovernorRodBlagojevich.htm

They run in the same gang hal.

During a wiretapped November 10 call, a frustrated and financially strapped Blagojevich referred to Obama as a "motherf**ker" and said that he would not appoint an ally of the President-elect to the Senate vacancy if "I don't get anything." Referring to Obama, Blagojevich exclaimed, "F**k him. For nothing? F**k him." In a November 11 conversation, Blagojevich remarked that he knew Obama wanted Valerie Jarrett, a longtime confidante, to succeed him, "but they're not willing to give me anything except appreciation. F**k them."

Good for Obama, not willing to bribe the Governor.

let's see if the MSM mentions the word-Democrat...usually they only mention party name if it's a republican

Well, CNN knows that Ted Stevens is a Republican.

And what's Blagojevich? Somehow they forgot.

Hal,

No friend of Obama's? Of course, Obama only befriends such saintly souls as Tony Rezko, who was under federal investigation when Obama arranged a real estate deal with him. I know, Obama was blissfully ignorant of this aspect of Rezko's otherwise sterling character and real estate agents in Illinois were on strike. Just as Obama was totally clueless of Ayers' history not to mention what his mentor and pastor, Rev.Wright was saying for 20 years, even though he sat in the guy's church.

I think Obama is throwing this man under the bus. Obama got his Illinois senate seat using the chicago Machine. Now today he doesn't need the machine. The Machine worked weell in getting Michelle these board slotts at University of Chicago. Obama used the same money train to get Rezco housing money. Today is a bad day for Obama. He is huddling behind closed doors with Algore. If Obama was smart, he would have not set up camp in Chicago. The sky is falling there. Obviously this uinvestigation is not new and it leaves out other money trails.

Obama looks like the hero in this story.

Looks like it was Obama chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel who blew the whistle on the governor.

Hal,

In what way is Obama a hero?

To be fair to CNN, they did manage to identify Eliot Spitzer's party affiliation when he was named in the prostitution scandal.

Of course, it was in the 34th (of 36) paragraphs.

And it was this paragraph:

The Republican Governors Association called on Spitzer, a Democrat, to resign to "allow the people of New York to pursue honest leadership."

In other words, to show how the whole thing was just nasty partisan Republican politics.

It's about time we began tagging media outlets with party affiliations every time they're mentioned -- "The New York Times (D. NY) today criticized President-Elect Obama for being to modest about his awesomeness . . . "

Mary, Obama and his chief of staff refused to play ball with this scumbag. They offered nothing but their appreciation if he followed their advice.

They said Rezco would sing before sentencing. This case was of course a lot of investigation that goes back months and years. I suspect Obama portion was left out and will come up in hearings. then the gove will sing on Obama before his sentencing.

Does Obama not know how to make friends with no crooks?
In 1993, she became Executive Director for the Chicago office of Public Allies, a non-profit organization encouraging young people to work on social issues in nonprofit groups and government agencies.[12] She worked there nearly four years and set fundraising records for the organization that still stood a dozen years after she left.[10]
wiki
We set fundraising records by learning on whom to put pressure. Pay to play.

Hal,

Which scumbag? Rezko or the governor?

Michelle Obama's salary at UC Hospitals when her husband won the US Senate seat was $121,000. Within weeks of his swearing in, the salary went to over $320,000. She's now VP for Community Affairs.
So did the taxpayers end up paying for Michelle's pay raise for Barack's six year term?

The same promise Gove in the court documents to the wife of his selection for replacement. Remember Obama got the Hospital 1 million dollars and they gave 300,000 to Michelle. She was paid like a lobbyist on a contingency basis? It will get exposed. How difficult for Obama. Abortion covers rape like the liberals cover graft and bribery.

xppc,

Wasn't there also an issue about Michelle's hospital sending non paying patients to other hospitals?

Looks like it was Obama chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel who blew the whistle on the governor.

Posted by: Hal at December 9, 2008 12:23 PM
--------

Motive. It's the reason people do what they do.

Say it ain't so Mary. No they did not want non paying patients. Again reading all the pages, it looks like Obama paid to play. Now whoever is chosen will have a cloud of "unworthiness" over their head. We will ask what Obama paid for a smooth senate race and what an appointee will have promised.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/acrobat/2008-12/43789434.pdf

The Lt gove news conference acts surprised.WGNTV

Listening to the voted in Lr gove, he has met with the gove since 2007. Crooks are often loners. Obama had a pattern of giving the silent treatment other than sloganeering for his job.

Pro-life Christians need to continue to fight spiritual warfare by praying as the shaking of this nation, this world, the economy, the politically corrupt, the state of IL. and other state and local governments is taking place. We do not gloat in the destruction of the wicked, but we will see those who have shed innocent blood and are corrupt receive God's justice. Hang onto your seats pro-aborts and pro-PPites, this is only the beginning. Don't be so sure about your sworn allegiance to BHO. Before Blago leaves for prison, I believe he will giving out lots of info. The govenor is so sick and arrogant he will do much damage before this is over with. The Democratic political machine connections are extensive and deep in Illinois. BHO did not get this far without lots of help. Blago, Emil Jones, Tony Rezko (now in prison), Daley, Levine (now in prison)and PP's executives (BHO's close ties to "sneak" into Aurora the largest abortuary in the country), there are many corrupt government and business ties. Don't believe that BHO did not bow down and pay his dues to the corrupt political machine. Before PP opened in Aurora, (someone who said that they work at city hall) said phone calls came through to the mayor and other city administrators to '"get it open no matter what". Is this the "change you can believe in"? Pray pro-lifers because everything that can be shaken will be shaken, because we need God's hand of protection and intervention.

As I watched the news conference, the Lt gove asked on live tv for us to PRAY for his state.

The previous gove is in jail. Ryan??

This legal case means beyound doubt, If Obama was clean, he would have been derailed rapidly. This case will expose even more dirt on Obama. The mayor is next?

It's unbelievable that somehow Obama is not getting any heat in this investigation of the "Rezko ring." Rezko only helped Obama get a $300,000 discount on his house. For less, $250,000, Ted Stevens in Alaska was convicted for accepting favors. Let Blago come down, but will Obama come away unscathed? Depending on the media and voter complacency, it looks like it....

The key word here is: Hubris. That's our gov. He was so full of himself as to think he was untouchable. The president-elect is not in the clear yet either, as Blago would sell out his own grandmother to find gain for himself. If he has anything on Obama he will try to leverage it for all its worth.

I'm sorry, but Obama just looks cleaner and cleaner in comparison to these guys. You state "If Obama was clean, he would have been derailed rapidly." I think it's more accurate to say if Obama was dirty we'd know it by now.

Hal why do we have to plant bugs and cameras for Planned parenthood. Michelle got a 180,000 dollar raise. A little pressure?
People are coming forward.

OBAMA'S 'MOB-TIE' $IDEKICK
By CHARLES HURT Bureau Chief
September 5, 2007

WASHINGTON - A man who has long been dogged by charges that the bank his family owns helped finance a Chicago crime figure will host a Windy City fund-raiser tonight for Sen. Barack Obama.

Alexi Giannoulias, who became Illinois state treasurer last year after Obama vouched for him, has pledged to raise $100,000 for the senator's Oval Office bid.

Before he promised to raise funds for Obama, Giannoulias bankrolled Michael "Jaws" Giorango, a Chicagoan twice convicted of bookmaking and promoting prostitution.

Giannoulias is so tainted by reputed mob links that several top Illinois Dems, including the state's speaker of the House and party chairman, refused to endorse him even after he won the Democratic nomination with Obama's help.

Giannoulias was the bank's vice president and chief loan officer for most of the more than $15 million in loans.

He was not charged with breaking any laws. The Obama campaign disputed any suggestion that Obama is tarnished by the association.

Obama is infected with the political "aids" virus. We call it bribery? He will have his day. The opeople do not need to take the barry One to court. Investigatiojns mobe slowly and evidence develops. More people sing to get lighter sentences. We know that this is a sample of pay to play. There are more cases that were not cited. Obama could face a partial birth abortion from the oval Office.

Hal,

You're not serious, right? Have you forgotten the free ride Obama has gotten from the media? He gives them "tingles".
Sarah Palin's pregnant teenage daughter got more scrutiny.

I'm sorry, but Obama just looks cleaner and cleaner in comparison to these guys. You state "If Obama was clean, he would have been derailed rapidly." I think it's more accurate to say if Obama was dirty we'd know it by now.

Posted by: Hal at December 9, 2008 2:17 PM

Joe biden called him CLEAN and articulate.

Obama is having a cow today bigger than the one he had on governor Plains appointment.

Obama did not get a free ride from the media. Are you kidding me?

Hal, 2:51PM

Obviously you are trying to be funny.

Come on xppc,

That's NOT the Alexi Obama knows.

I'm frequently amazed on how two people can see the world so differently. McCain got a free ride, which is fine, since it turned out okay. But really, you can't look at the coverage of McCain and Obama and not conclude the media was protecting McCain.

Well, I just think the guy looks weird. There's rather a "Rick Santorum" nutty gleam in his eye.

In other breaking news, it's wintertime.

Hal,

Even Mark Halperin of Time Magazine, which has never been known for its "right wing" sympathies, acknowledged the favorable treatment Obama got as compared to McCain.
So you know of any reporters who said McCain gave them a "tingle"?

Doug

We've just gotten slammed by snow, again. Do you think the polar bears may start migrating from the subtropical Arctic to the American Midwest sometime soon?

I don't know a single person in IL, whatever their view on abortion, who isn't celebrating that Blagojevich finally got caught. It's the first time in my life, and probably the last, that everyone I know feels the same way about a political event.

Truly, G-Rod is a uniter and not a divider.

So you know of any reporters who said McCain gave them a "tingle"?
Posted by: Mary at December 9, 2008 3:45 PM

I'd blame McCain for that, not the press.

Blagojevich issued 2 anti-life executive orders during his tenure: 1 to force human embryo experimentation on taxpayers and another to force pharmacists to dispense the morning after pill. Both should be made part of US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation.

LOLOLOLOLLL!!!!

We've just gotten slammed by snow, again. Do you think the polar bears may start migrating from the subtropical Arctic to the American Midwest sometime soon?

Mary, I think I saw one in a bar last night!

¯\(©¿©)/¯

I'm sharing some of your snow - the part that got to the north side of Milwaukee.

Hot Rod Blagojevich is going to sing to get a better sentence. Rezco sang on Hot Rod.

Hal 5:41PM

Say what?

Doug,

LOL. What a hoot! I love your "drawing". What does a polar bear drink? Anything he wants I suppose.
Snow has finally stopped here and the roads are plowed. It is deep!

Say what?
Posted by: Mary at December 9, 2008 6:39 PM

McCain wasn't worthy of that tingle. Obama got great press because Obama is great. Objective fact.

Can I just say, as someone FROM Illinois. Someone FROM the Chicago area, AND as someone that leans to the far left--- most of us didn't like Blago. For lack of a better word, he's a turd. Illinois candidates for governor typically suck.

His arrest had nothing to do with him being a democrat. It has a lot to do with him being a scumbag.

Hal 7:04PM

Eh.. sure, whatever.

I hope they get Rod, and the people responsable for the attorney firings and members of the bush administration who lied to congress about Iraq. Between Rod and the Bush admin cronies, the new AG is going to have his hands full.

Sounds like the Rod got off the reservation a little bit and tried to put the squeeze on the wrong people.

I am not 'shocked, SHOCKED!' that there is political corruptionn in Chicago or Illinois.

It is legendary. These guys would make Al Capone look like a juvenile delinquent.

The 'Chicago Way' took down one of it's own adherents.

I wonder how much the 0'bama (pbuh) had to 'pay to play' in the Chicago sandbox.

One more body under the 0'bama (pbuh) campaign bus. None have assumed room temperature from unusual circumstances,......that we know of.....yet.

More head bustin, knee cappin to come as the 'Chicago Way' takes it own the road and heads to D C.

Hail hail the gangs are all here!

yor bro ken

Posted by: Hal at December 9, 2008 7:04 PM

'Obama got great press because Obama is great. Objective fact.'

------------------------------------------------------

Why Hal, I do believe you are 'twitterpated'.

Have you too got that tinglin feelin runnin down your leg?

During the 'W' administration a national psychosis was identified and known affectionately as Bush Derrangement Syndrome (BDS), but I do believe you are presenting the symptoms consistent with 0'bama (pbuh)Delusion Syndrom (0DS).

Hopefully the honeymoon phase will end quickly and you will recover completely from your emotionally induced infatuation with the 0'bama (pbuh).

I like you better when you are your reasonable, logical self.

yor bro ken

The Obama honeymoon is over
the leftists are whining and howling again.
PEBO is to conservative for them.

xppc

Have you read Robert Ruff's book Aborting Planned Parenthood

and/or

George Grant's, Grand Illusions?

yor bro ken

Son of a Blagojevich, the Chicago chickens are coming home to roost!

I never thought the White House would become a hen coop.

But that is what happens when you put a weasel in charge.

yor bro ken

This just in Governor S.O.B. is to be stripped of his power to appoint, or even anoint, the 0'bama (pbuh) successor in the U.S. Senate. If S.O.B. names a successor before the Illinois legislature can act, the U.S. Senate will refuse to seat the appointee says dingy hairy Reid.

This means the chicago machine is going to go into mechanically threatening overdrive as the democrat wannabees jockey for position to be the next U. S. Senator from the State of Illinois.

Which of the wannabees has payed (enough)to play?

Will Bill Ayer, Bernadine Dohrn, or Jeremiah Wright throw their berets in the wringer?

Will a single republican candidate emerge in the wake of the 'chicago way' culture of corruption who can garner enough public support to defeat the field of divided democrats?

Can the 0'bama (pbuh) calm the political storm?

Will he scale the Sears Tower, be tranfigured, receive the oracles of truth and return to the teeming troubled masses trapped in the turbulent tribulation of political turmoil in time to restore the tranquility of his transcendent throne?

Ooooooooo, be still my troubled soul.

yor bro ken

"Obama just looks cleaner and cleaner in comparison to these guys...."

Wow, that's setting the bar pretty high, huh?

Yeah, I guess compared to guys like Blago, Rezko, Levine and Cari, Obama IS looking great...I mean, he hasn't been indicted yet, has he?

Never forget Obama is a child of Chicago politics and gets dirty. They all do. He just hasn't been caught.

Not illegal but an example of getting dirty. Alice Palmer was the state senator of Obama's district while he was still community organizer. She decided to run in a special election for Congress (related to another scandalized downfall - Mel Reynolds) and gave Obama her blessing to run in her stead.

When Palmer lost, she asked Obama to bow out. He refused. More than that, he had Palmer - and all his other primary competitors - kicked off the ballot for incorrect petition signatures, which are infamously difficult to get right according to IL rules.

As I said, this wasn't illegal, but this is Chicago-style political hardball, and Obama was good at it from the get-go.

More to come. Hope Blagojevich sings. I think he will. Both Obama and Blago have smelly ties to the SEIU, for instance. I think there's a there there.

Ken,
You always put a smile on my face : )

It looks like Obama paid a price to get his job. This mess gives us a picture what the price was right.
Auchi and Rezco have been the Pay day loan companies for pay for play politics. Obama has no option but to deny contact. Even in a while when someone claims he was involved, he will continue to deny. It appears Michelle O was given a perk job.

"Can I just say, as someone FROM Illinois. Someone FROM the Chicago area, AND as someone that leans to the far left--- most of us didn't like Blago. For lack of a better word, he's a turd. Illinois candidates for governor typically suck.

His arrest had nothing to do with him being a democrat. It has a lot to do with him being a scumbag."

Hmmm...Seems to imply that basically only people who are not Democrats or from the far left should properly be labeled and perceived as "scumbags."

As someone who was born IN CHICAGO and raised IN COOK COUNTY, one valuable lesson I've learned over time is that scumbags come in all political stripes, but if you want to do business in Chicago you must dutifully overlook the fact that anyone in the Democratic machine might be a scumbag at the risk of losing your "playing rights."

Pay-to-play has always been the "Chicago Way."

Democrats loved Blago when he was first elected. He was the golden boy who was supposed to clean up our state. He only lost favor when they found out he wasn't discrete enough to keep their business-as-usual under wraps.

It seems to me that all party loyalties in Illinois are misplaced.

As loyal Illinois citizens, maybe our only hope is the foundation of an independent, non-ideological reform party with the sole purposes of reducing corruption in government and supporting taxpayer access to government services.

Lincoln is screaming from his grave for us to do something about this.

Just remember this. 95% of the people that are getting a ( whuhaha ) tax break love Obsama. The other 95% think he is a crook.

This news report from Nov 5. Obama is dishonest.

Ill. governor meeting with Obama today

By Carol Sowers
Wednesday, November 05, 2008 at 10:39 a.m.

CHICAGO, ILL. -- Now that Barack Obama will be moving to the White House, his seat in the U.S. Senate representing Illinois will have to be filled.

That's one of Obama's first priorities today.

He's meeting with Governor Rod Blagojevich this afternoon in Chicago to discuss it.

Illinois law states that the governor chooses that replacement.

There's already been speculation about his selection...from Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr. of Chicago's south side who co-chaired Obama's presidential campaign, to recently-retired state senate president Emil Jones, to the governor himself.

It's likely the governor will make his decision quickly so the new senator will get some seniority before newly-elected senators take office in January.

Part of the timing depends on when Obama officially vacates his senate seat.

KHQA's Alexis Hunt is speaking with Illinois Senator John Sullivan today about his thoughts on that replacement process, his time working with Obama in the state senate, and if there's a chance Sullivan might play a role in the Obama administration. Watch KHQA

http://www.connecttristates.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=217582

So the pieces are coming together and Obama was involved with discussions on his replacement. Obama is caught at several levels.

Gee, What a Coincidence!
Life is never boring in Chicago.

Whether it's the antics of its sports teams, preachers, criminals, politicians, or any combination thereof...

"The City of Chicago and its Chicago Board of Ethics, and the Cook County Board of Ethics, the Illinois State Board of Elections and the Illinois Executive Ethics Commission...

are proud to host the 30th Annual COGEL (Council on Governmental Ethics Laws) Conference...

to be held at the Westin River North Hotel from December 7- 10, 2008."

sponsored by the Democrats. ACORN and various role players.

http://www.madmacedonian.com/2008/12/gee-what-a-coin.html

Wonder how many speakers are broadcast live from prison?

"Never forget Obama is a child of Chicago politics and gets dirty. They all do. He just hasn't been caught.- JIll"

=============================================

Our thoughts, exactly...Don't worry folks, Obama WILL get caught.

Funny, Obama's hasn't even been SWORN into office yet and he's already distancing himself from his liberal comrades that got caught red-handed doing exactly what immoral liberals do...lie, cheat, steal.

I would be sooooo happy to Jesse Jackson go down the toilet! whoo hoo! **block party ** block party!!!

RSD, don't you think President Elect Obama SHOULD distance himself from people who have committed wrongdoing?

I think it's entirely appropriate.

"I think it's entirely appropriate.

Posted by: Hal at December 10, 2008 1:01 PM"
=============================================

Yeah, Hal..it's entirely understood that when you're part of a corrupt culture to distance yourself IMMEDIATELY from your corrupt comrades WHEN they get caught.

The political sh*t is hitting the fan and we certainly don't want "our" president-elect to get hit it with it, do we, Hal?

How does a 100 days in office first before indicting/ implicating/ arresting him sound?

The Obama team refused to play along with the illegal and immoral requests for bribes. He offered nothing but his "appreciation" for a good appointment. His Chief of Staff might have been the one to call in the feds. I see his conduct as above reproach.

wrong Jesse Jackson, Patricia. I think they're talking about Reverend Jesse Jackson's SON, not the Reverend.

Sorry Hal,

I think Obama's assocication with the likes of Tony Rezko will come back to bite him in this brewing storm. His real estate deal with him was definitely not above reproach.

Just like the Clintons, Obama seems to be friends with too many crooks. So much for "CHANGE".

"The Obama team refused to play along with the illegal and immoral requests for bribes"
-------------------------------------------

Sorry to break your bubble, Hal...the Obama team WILL play along illegally AND immorally IF it suits their purpose.

You don't play in the dirt and come out clean as a whistle.

RSD, what are you referring to? I have seen no evidence of Obama playing along with anything improper.

Read Mary's post above ( Mary at December 10, 2008 2:03 PM) for one...

I just read the official complaint from Patrick Fitzgerald's office with lots of references to "the President-elect and his advisors", very interesting. You BHO PP-lovers continue to drink the "change you can believe in" Kool-aid but pages number 65, 69 and 70 are very troubling. You guys are in major denial, if you think that in the most corrupt state in the union as a Chicago-style politician, that BHO did not play Democratic machine pay-to-play politics with Blago, Emil "I'm gonna make me a senator" Jones, Rezko, Daley and company throughout his entire political career. "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck......". I think Blago is going to tell all to try to get the best deal he can from the prosecutor. Pro-lifers pray that the entire truth will come out no matter what party or race the crooks are. God said he will vindicate the shedding of innocent blood and that he will destroy the wicked. In Genesis 4:10 the Lord said to Cain "Your brother's (Abel's) blood cries out to me from the ground".

I personally think that Obama will be untouchable. Remember he's a lawyer and they know how to manipulate the law. He's smart to cover his tracks. Look at what clinton was able to do while in the White House.

rats about Jesse Jackson - although the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

Hal: Did BHO get a pass from the MSM? Did McCain get a "free ride." It depends on how you look at it. Imagine if Palin left Alaska to visit the some of the other "57 states." Imagine if McCain was a long time pal of an unrepentant abortion clinic bomber. Imagine McCain giving a Memorial Day speech where he could not distinguish the purpose of the day from Veterans Day. Imagine Palin having been found guilty of plagiarism. Imagine Palin saying in the VP debate she eats at a place regularly only to find out later it has been closed for years. Imagine McCain sitting in the pews for two decades while his pastor exhorted the congregation to join with him in hate filled tirades and in damning amerika. Now, imagine the media howl each time if any of the above happened.

Antoher babykiller bites the dust. Let's hope he's put away for a long long time.

Remember the line from the Godfather:

'Make him an offer he can't refuse.'

This after the movie producer ignores the first polite request that he should cast a particular singer of Italian extraction in his next film.

The movie producer wakes up with his prize horses head in bed with him.

The singer of Italian extraction got the part in the movie.

Seems to me the Son of Blagojevich was too arrogant or too stupid to recognize the 0'bama had made it clear who he wanted to replace him.

Not only did the Gov S.O.B. reject the 0'bama (pbuh), the S.O.B. tried to put the squeeze on the 'Don'.

(I'm hearing Jim Croce singin Big Bad Leroy Brown. S.O.B is Leroy and the 0'bama (pbuh) is Slim.

'Well dem two men took to fightin, an when dey pulled dem from da flor, Leroy looked like a jigsaw puzzle with a couple of pieces gone.')

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMWnMbQeWlg

Instead of waking up to a horses head in bed with him the Gov. S.O.B. woke up with the FBI in bed with him.

Now, that is the Chicago Way.

The 0'bama (pbuh) communicated in a way that transcends merely mortal methods. All the thugs understood the meaning of the message.

'If you have them by the tendermost parts of their manhood, their hearts and minds will soon follow.'

Who do you suppose was in a position to know what the S.O.B. was up to and who do you suppose ratted the S.O.B. out?

Let us just hope that the 0'bama (pbuh) limits this sort of brutish behavior to our nation's enemies and not those he considers 'his' enemies.

yor bro ken

@Posted by: xppc at December 10, 2008 10:33 AM

Yeah. Maybe you should look at the transcripts of these tapes? Where Blago says that ALL Obama offered him was appreciation? Blago proceeded to call Obama a mother f-er.

....plus, many people are fairly certain it was Rahm Emanuel ratted on Blago anyway.

They're both Democrats from Illinois. OBVIOUSLY they've interacted. Now, let's talk about alllll the Republican senators who have gotten arrested... is George Bush BFF with them?

Blago is doomed. Just look at all of Obama's lackeys in this thread, saying what scum Blago is now that their master Barry has told them what to think. It's a thing of beauty to see them turn on one of their own now that he's no longer useful to them. Under the bus you go, Blago!

I know that Barry's going to get away with having yet another corrupt friend in Chicago - I expected it, after everything else he's gotten away with - but the good news is that Blago is done. At the very least, he's going to be thrown out of office, but hopefully, he's going to jail. And when this goes does, it will be good riddance to one of the worst governors in the nation - one so awful that I even know about him and I live in another state.

Heh, Obama isn't even in office yet and we're already having sooo much fun. You pro-aborts were right; we pro-lifers should have voted for Obama! I can't wait for the four years of Obama's friends being accused of crimes and that genius Obama going in front of the cameras with that stupid "Who me?" expression on his face. "This is not the Blago I knew!" .... hahaha, I love it!

John, not liking Blago had NOTHING to do with Obama OR him getting caught. MOST of us from Illinois thought he was a total d-bag.

Why are you ignoring that Blago was calling Obama a mother f-er, and the fact that Obama was NOT willing to give Blago ANYTHING to get his friend in the Senate?

Our last governor got arrested too, and isn't it W who is going to pardon him? I don't think that makes W a scumbag by association. Why should this be any different? Illinois is notorious for our crappy, crappy governors. :) Our Congressmen aren't too bad though (if you can remember the past. ;)

If being named in an investigation is all it takes to bring someone down then Ronald Regan is rotting in hell for Iran Contra, which involved a lot more money (and truth) than anything that so far Jackson is only loosely implicated in.

I think the suspicion here concerning the governor and Obama is that O uses people to get places and then ditches them. That may be why the governor was so angry at him.

I wonder why the people of Illinois keep voting for governors they hate and know are corrupt? Seems kind of insane to me. Just like the defenses of Obama when it comes to Blago. I guess that's why the state's name is abbreviated as "Ill". Just throw the word "Mentally" in front of that.

Look, I know you all have the talking points by now. I know that the DNC emailed you all about how Republicans have done 1000 times worse, Bush is evil, Blago hates Obama, blah blah blah. I know that Obama is going to get out of this unscathed, just like how he got out of his associations with Tony Rezko, Jeremiah Wright, Michael Pfleger, ACORN, and all of the other far-left maniacs who control Chicago. I'm so certain of it that I'm not even making the attempt to go after Obama here.

I'm just happy that your (former) friend Blago is now being thrown under the bus. It's great to see you Democrats eating one of your own since he's become a threat to your Lord and Savior.

Just like the Republicans threw George Ryan under the bus, right?

Blago got elected because the person he ran against (Judy Baar Topinka, I think??) was more hated. I mean, if you look at the history of our last Republican governor, why would we want another?? The next election should be good for the Independents. :)

On The Daily Show last night, I think Jon Stewart said it best: 4 out of our last 8 governors have gone to prison. That's 50%. Only 48% of murders go to prison. You have a better chance of going to prison if you are the governor of Illinois than if you murder...

It has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans. We just have crappy, crappy governors... and we probably won't pick a good one next time!

Illinois politicians.... Dan Rostenkowski got his Congressional pension while IN PRISON, like $125,000 per year.

And of course, Barry walked through that swamp, completely oblivious to all of the corruption around him! At worst, Barry is in on the corruption, and at best, he's too stupid to have noticed it.

John, you're missing the headline. Obama refused to play ball with the corrupt Governor. He's the hero of this story. We got us an honest politician headed for the White House. Rejoice.

Hal...I thik YOU are the one missing the headline here..."honest politician" is an oxymoron.

RSD, what has Obama done to be considered dishonest?

I believe there are honest politicians, from both parties. I don't see even a shred of evidence Obama isn't one of them.

Hal, you see Obama through these:

Take them off for a moment, and read this:
http://obamawtf.blogspot.com/2008/05/documented-lie-50-obama-claimed-he-had.html

Josephine, that link I just posted (1:36) also would answer your question.

Actually, Hal, we had a candidate who was willing to fight corruption instead of ignoring it, but you pro-aborts didn't like her because she's pro-life. Instead, you called her an idiot, when she has a record of opposing corruption within her own party instead of just letting it happen.

You say Obama refused to engage in illegal activities. That means, according to you, Obama knew that Blago was doing illegal stuff. So what did Obama do about it?

What exactly is the legal role of a U.S. Senator when it comes to investigating and fighting corruption by his state's Governor? I'm pretty sure there isn't one.

Blagojevich has been under federal investigation for three years. What was Obama supposed to do? Grandstand in front of the cameras and make that investigation harder? Is Patrick Fitzgerald complaining that Barack Obama didn't do enough?

I know -- maybe he should have refused to play along with Blagojevich's plan to sell his seat. Oh, wait, he did, and that's why GRod was calling him names.

You're right, Jen. If the president-elect is a senator and he finds out that the governor of his state plans to sell his senate seat to the highest bidder, he should just shut his mouth and say nothing. That's upstanding behavior, fo' sho'.

You think maybe, I dunno, Barry could have informed the authorities that Blago was trying to sell the senate seat? They may have been interested in something like that. What you and Hal are saying is that Barry had knowledge that the governor of IL was engaging in criminal activity and that he did nothing about it.

You guys are poor at repeating the DNC talking points. You're supposed to be saying that Obama didn't know anything about Blago's schemes. That is the party line. That's what you're supposed to say to be good little Democrat foot soldiers.

Okay John,

So, George Ryan was a Republican and Bush wants to get him out of prison. Soooo.... I guess Bush is a giant scumbag and was participating in Ryan's illegal activities. :)

"Barry could have informed the authorities that Blago was trying to sell the senate seat?"
------------------------------------------

Hey John, good point...IF Obama or his people was aware that GRod was selling the seat to the highest bidder, why didn't they raise a fuss or blow the whistle on this issue?

I mean, they SURELY would have known that was highly illegal, right? It WAS Obama's seat they were talking about, right?

Why wait for the FEDs to do it and then say "I didn't have anything to do with it"

RSD,
They never actually said Obama was aware, first of all. The only thing anyone knows for sure is that Obama only offered his appreciation when conversing with Blago about the senate seat. Blago was already under investigation. *I* knew that. So, I'm sure Obama knew that. :)

Josephine, sure, why not? Bush is leaving office in one month. He's a scumbag, fine. And therefore so is Barry, according to you.

RSD, there are three possibilities:

1) Barry didn't know anything about Blago's illegal activities. Blago is just another corrupt Chicago Democrat that Barry didn't realize was corrupt. "This is not the Rod I knew!" Barry is practically SURROUNDED BY CORRUPTION but is either too stupid or too blind to notice it. Unbelievably, that is the current Democrat Party line.

2) Barry knew about Blago's illegal activities, but didn't bother to report them, thus making him a "hero" according to Hal and the rest of the Delusionalcrats on here. Apparently it's now virtuous to keep your mouth shut when you learn about felonies being committed by the governor. Either that, or, unlike every other citizen, US senators aren't expected to report illegal activities if they learn about them (??????).

3) Barry knew about Blago's illegal activities but realized that this is business as usual in Chicago, one of the most corrupt cities in America. Barry's just part of the corrupt Chicago Machine like all the rest, so of course he's not going to do anything to hurt that Machine unless he's forced to.

Why do you assume that Obama's staff *didn't* report anything they might have known about what Blagojevich was trying to pull with the Senate seat? Patrick Fitzgerald is famously closed-mouthed about ongoing investigations; there's no reason you would have heard.

John, I never said if one is true, both are true. :) I was just making ridiculous assumptions because apparently it's okay to do that now.

Josephine, only if you're making assumptions about how Obama is a criminal, a terrorist-sympathizer, not a citizen, and/or a Muslim.

Because, Jen, Obama's staff didn't say that. Obama's staff (Axelrod in particular) now says that there was no discussion with Blago, PERIOD. They're saying that they knew nothing. You're changing the facts around to fit your own personal scenario. I have to hand it to you Democrats - you are the MASTERS of obfuscation!

"Josephine, only if you're making assumptions about how Obama is a criminal, a terrorist-sympathizer, not a citizen, and/or a Muslim."

Jen, how much does a Democrat's soul cost?

John, do you have to go to school to be this condescending, or does it come naturally?

John, who EVER said he KNEW FOR SURE what was going on. Blago NEVER said "I told Obama I wanted money and all Obama did was offer appreciation."

He said all Obama did was offer appreciation. That doesn't mean that Obama KNEW about what was going on. You can't say "Oh, Obama knew because.. I think he knew". Where is the PROOF that Obama knew!?

Where is the PROOF that Obama DIDN'T tell authorities? Maybe he did, PRIVATELY. When he has an assumption about something, are we to assume he has to go about it in a HUGE PUBLIC WAY or he did nothing?? We don't know exactly what he did or didn't do/ what he knew or didn't know... there's no reason to assume the absolute worst. Sheesh..

You say Obama refused to engage in illegal activities. That means, according to you, Obama knew that Blago was doing illegal stuff. So what did Obama do about it?
Posted by: John Lewandowski at December 11, 2008 2:32 PM

Rumor has it, his Chief of Staff called the FBI and reported it. We'll see, in time.

OK, I just watched the news conference.

Obama said that he was "appalled and disappointed" by the transcripts of Blagojevich's calls. Seems reasonable to me. I think practically
everyone in Illinois knew the guy was a crook, and we were still appalled by the DEPTHS of his crookedness. You posit a false dichotomy between knowing exactly what Blagojevich was up to in selling the Senate seat, and being totally ignorant that he was corrupt at all.

He said that he, personally, did not speak to Blagojevich about "these issues" (whether he means that he never discussed the Senate vacancy at all, or whether he's referring specifically to the dealmaking, I'm not sure). He said that he wanted to gather information about any contact his staff might have with the governor regarding the Senate seat. There will have been *some* contact, I assume, or Blagojevich wouldn't have known that Obama favored Jarrett. Maybe somebody on his staff knew what Blagojevich was up to, or just smelled something funny; maybe they didn't.

He said that he was certain that his office was not involved in any dealmaking about the Senate seat. The only actual *evidence* we have, as opposed to speculation and assumptions, bears that out -- Blagojevich was pissed because Obama's staff wouldn't offer him anything but "appreciation" to appoint Jarrett.

Nobody in a position to know (i.e, the FBI and the US Attorney's office) is accusing Obama or his staff of having done anything wrong, including having failed to report wrongdoing they knew about. So what are we arguing about again?

(Anonymous, I heard that the Emmanuel rumor wasn't true, btw.)

Let's settle this once and for all.

Obama sat in Rev.Wright's church for 20 years but was blissfully ignornant of anything Wright said. By the way the good reverend returned to his pulpit and declared Dec.7 as the anniversary of the day a nuclear bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.

Bill Ayers was just one of many people Obama happened to have coffee with when he was campaigning in the neighborhood. How convenient the Ayers' just happened to be home at the time.
Don't campaigning politicians and sitting state senators visit our homes all the time?

Although Tony Rezko was under federal investigation, US senator Obama consulted him when looking for a home. Obviously, there was a state wide strike by real estate agents in Illinois at the time.

Come on folks. Chicago politics is a cesspool but certainly a man who can command the ocean levels to lower can also walk on cesspools.

Mary, I'm not sure what you're settling "once and for all"...

You think it's okay to accuse people of things even though there is ABSOLUTELY not ONE SHRED of evidence of ANY wrong doing? The ONLY thing that is known for SURE is that Obama wouldn't pay off Blago.

Hmmmmmm.... I guess you can assume things all you want, but it's not really going to help a pro-life movement to hate on the leading majority. :)

Josephine,

I am being facetious. No matter what, Obama is viewed as above any wrongdoing or questionable activity. He is the one who decreed that the day of his nomination would be remembered for the ocean levels receding.
Are you so certain there isn't one shred of evidence against him?
I believe the man is innocent until proven guilty. Nowhere have I expressed any hatred of the man. If he truly walks on cesspools, great.
But given his history and past associations, let's just say nothing is going to suprise me.

I'm not sure what you mean by his history? Yeah, he's been "associated" with some shady people. What politician hasn't? He's also been associated with really amazing people..again, what politician hasn't?

A girl on my squad in high school got arrested for robbing a cell phone store with her older boyfriend. I was on a squad with her.. we went to all the same sleepovers.., so I spent a lot of time with her.. or, I was "associated" with her... but I in no way was connected to her robbery.

Mary: "So you know of any reporters who said McCain gave them a 'tingle'?"

Hal: "I'd blame McCain for that, not the press."

You'd blame McCain for not causing the media to reveal their biases so beautifully?

"reality": "LOLOLOLOLLL!!!!"

Let's see. Looks like "reality" was trying to say, "Laughing out loud out loud out loud out loud loud loud." Thanks for adding your intellect.

Hal: "Obama got great press because Obama is great. Objective fact."

For homework, I'd like you to look up the words "objective" and "fact."

Yo La Tango: "If being named in an investigation is all it takes to bring someone down then Ronald Regan is rotting in hell for Iran Contra..."

WHO?

bmmg39,

"You'd blame McCain for not causing the media to reveal their biases so beautifully?"

I'd blame McCain for not being as good as Obama. Clearly not Obama's fault if he is, in fact, more "awesome".

No matter what, Obama is viewed as above any wrongdoing or questionable activity."

If Obama is implicated in any wrongdoing, so be it. I'll be disappointed, for sure. So far, no one who knows anything has even hinted he did anything wrong. Keep hope alive. I'm proud of the man, and my support of him.

How can it be that the 0'bama (pbuh) the omniscient could not know the son of a Blagojevich was attempting to sell the U.S. Senate the 0'bama (pbuh) vacated?

Did he unlist his blackberry number?

Was the 0'bama (pbuh) asleep?

Was the 0'bama (pbuh) sitting on his throne relieving himself?

Did all this transpire while the 0'bama (pbuh) was on a smoke break?

You do not pass through the lagoon of human excrement that is chicago politics and not get some on you unless you can part the scum and the sludge and/or walk on the effluent.

'I did not have sex, [shaking bony finger in America's face] with that woman.......'

'We, aaaauuuuhh, I have had no conversation with the son of a Blagojevich what so ever.....'

----------------------------------------------------

There is talk of an independent counsel or special prosecutor to investigate the pretentious and presumptive 0'bama (pbuh) and the electoral college has not even convened.

So what is the difference between Bill Clinton and the Barack Hussein 0'bama ([pbuh)?

Bill Clinton was the first 'black' president!

yor bro ken

Josephine 10:13PM

I have stated Obama is innocent until proven guilty.
His past associations are, shall we say, questionable.
Its one thing for a friend to commit an illegal act, its another thing to actively seek out and associate with people of questionable repute.
Would you consult someone under federal investigation when buying a home, or a real estate agent?
What if a candidate admitted an association with terrorist bomber Eric Rudolph? He wouldn't get my vote, that's for certain.
Obama claims ignorance of what his pastor said, a man he referred to as a friend and mentor.
Even a black pastor who was a Hillary supporter found this claim dubious and said that as a pastor he would consider it an insult if a member of his congregation was so clueless as to what he(the pastor) had preached.

Sorry Josephine, but its all these parts taken as a whole that has me, well, open to various possibilities.

Josephine,

What is more "awesome" about Obama?

Hal,

As I said Obama is innocent until proven guilty, period.

The 0'bama (pbuh) is NOT innocent.

He is not even NOT guilty.

His crimes are common knowledge.

The 0'bama (pbuh) has no shame because he has no conscience.

yor bro ken

Mary, I'd say if Obama KNEW this guy was under investigation.. doesn't that show that their deal would have had to be on the up and up, or Obama would be in some serious trouble.. wouldn't he? :)

"What if a candidate admitted an association with terrorist bomber Eric Rudolph? He wouldn't get my vote, that's for certain."

Hm. Depends on what the association was. If it was a completely public association... well, I don't care. People associate about lots of things. I mean, come on. There's a difference between being associated and doing illegal things with another person.

Mary, in my opinion (and the majority of Americans): Lots of things. You've already made it perfectly clear you don't agree. So why should I list the things I like about him.

Josephine,

Obama was a US senator. Rezko was under federal investigation. Certainly a US senator would have easy access to such information. He had to be well acquainted with the guy to enter into a real estate deal with him. Let's just say I find it very difficult to believe that Obama didn't know. The point is why not just consult a real estate agent if you want to buy a home?

If the candidate visited Rudolph's home and sought his support in running for political office, if Rudolph described himself as a "family friend" of the candidate, then yes, I would have some serious reservations about this candidate.

Josephine, you described Obama as "awesome". I don't think its unreasonable to ask you specifically what you find so awesome about him.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1326350,obama-news-conference-blagojevich-121108.article

“I have never spoken with the governor on this subject, and I am quite confident that no representatives of mine would have had any part in any deals related to this seat,” Obama said.

As to whether his top aides talked with the governor, Obama would only say they offered no deals to Blagojevich.

Obama would not say who the Obama “adviser” named in the complaint was who Blagojevich allegedly said had an interest in Emanuel’s congressional district. He said he would leave that to U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald and that, in the next few days,

he plans to put together a list of all contacts his staff might have had with Blagojevich’s staff.

It is impossible for the 0'bama (pbuh) to lie. Therefore he must have mis-spoke or someone took his vote out of context, or the dog ate his homework, or whatever......?!?!

yor bro ken

yor bro ken

Jen, do you have to go to school to be so clueless, or does it come naturally?

As I have already said, repeatedly, it doesn't matter whether or not Obama did anything wrong, but it's clear that you, being a Democrat hack, will do and say anything to defend him. But let me repeat: I don't care if Barry knew about Blago's crimes or not. It wouldn't lower my opinion of the man because that's hardly possible.

I'm just glad that Blago is doomed. I enjoy seeing you Democrats crucify one of your governors since he has become a threat to your latest god.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1208/Blagojevich_questions_censored_on_Transition_site.html?showall

Blagojevich questions censored on Transition site

President-elect Barack Obama's Transition today launched "Open for Questions," a Digg-style feature allowing citizens to submit questions, and to vote on one another's questions, bringing favored inquiries to the top of the list.

It was suggested when it launched that the tool would bring uncomfortable questions to the fore, but the results so far are the opposite: Obama's supporters appear to be using -- and abusing -- a tool allowing them to "flag" questions as "inappropriate" to remove all questions mentioning Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich from the main pages of Obama's website.

yor bro ken

No blasphemy against the 0'bama (pbuh) allowed.

yor bro ken

Ken, in 2006, it was VERY IMPORTANT that we uncover all of the guilty people in the REPUBLICAN CULTURE OF CORRUPTION and that we blame EVERY Republican for the actions of a few of them.

Now, talking about the Democrat Culture of Corruption and shining a spotlight on all of the corrupt Democrats who are good friends with Barry is a DISTRACTION FROM IMPORTANT ISSUES!!!

Hahahahahaha....

http://www.patriotart.com/images/12_11_08/ChicagosHeroes.jpg

Mary, was it you who refused to watch the interview with Bill Ayers? Until you do some, I absolutely won't comment on anything having to do with him.. since he clearly explains that he and Obama are NOT close friends. He even waited til AFTER the election to do the interview, so that no one thought it was JUST to help Obama. Obama had already won.

And Mary, I think Obama is awesome because: He doesn't want to send me or any of my friends to war, which is great! I like his health care plan. I think he has good judgment, which is pretty important. I've lived in Illinois my whole life, and Obama was NEVER talked about (in my home or in school) how the other Chicago politicians were talked about. That's a GREAT thing...as we all know, a LOT of Chicago politicians are scumbags. He ran a respectable campaign, which I don't think anyone can honestly say about the man he ran against... I like his tax plan. I think it's great to have a President that understands middle/lower class America. Even if he's not there, he knows it. He knows no one is going to benefit from letting the rich become more rich. They don't use their tax breaks to help the economy and create jobs-- they use them to stock their bank accounts.. which was never the point of tax breaks for the rich.. should I keep going, or are your ears bleeding?

John, PLEASE PLEASE understand that Republicans AND Democrats NEVER EVER liked Blago to begin with. It has nothing to do with being worry about Obama. I'm not worried in the slightest, but as someone FROM the Chi-area, and I know Jill (if she reads these?) can vouch .. he was never, ever considered a good governor by either party.

"He ran a respectable campaign"

Yes, especially when he called abortion survivor Gianna Jessen, a saint walking among us, a "despicable liar".

"John, PLEASE PLEASE understand that Republicans AND Democrats NEVER EVER liked Blago to begin with"

And yet Blago won the Democrat primary in 2002. Then in 2006 when you Democrats had a chance to run someone else against him for the Democrat ticket, you voted for him AGAIN! I guess Blago's the best Democrat in the entire state?

He was the best Democrat running, not the best in the state. The best in the state run for Congress.

I read this article (http://www.lifenews.com/nat4366.html) just now... and, well,

"I don't really care what he says. I know he voted four times against proper medical care for babies born alive. That's the kind of man he is."

I wish people would realize that no doctor can deny born alive babies care. The hippocratic oath requires it. Furthermore, born alive abortion is... violating the oath anyway.

"Never to do deliberate harm to anyone for anyone else's interest."

So, as you can see, partial birth abortions or born alive abortions are violating the oath. If the baby is out of the mother, and is killed.. is harming the baby for the mother's interest, isn't it?

Josephine 11:48PM

I remember the antics of Bill Ayers long before you were born. In the afterword of a book he wrote, I believe it was Fugitive Days, he acknowledged that he was "family friends" with the Obamas.
What do you expect the guy to say Josephine? Of course he's going to be interviewed AFTER the election. He admits he's guilty as hell and free as a bird. This is a guy who's friends and fellow weather underground members blew themselves to hell making bombs using Ayers' recipe. These were nail bombs that were going to be set at a military dance at Fort Dix.
If you think someone like this is worthy of belief and respect, fine with me.

He doesn't want to send you to war. Josephine, who does? That doesn't mean he won't send you to war.

His health care plan which will cost billions and will be yet another gov't bureaucracy. Medicare and SS are great examples of the efficiency of gov't run programs. As well as the trillion dollar "war on poverty". We see how that cured poverty.

His association with Rezko is an example of good judgment?

If you lived in the late mobster JOhn Gotti's neighborhood you would have idolized the man like his neighbors did. That proves he was a model citizen?

What exactly is his tax plan? It changes every time I hear it. Why is taxing the producers of this country such a good idea? Josephine, its the "rich" as well as all the rest of us who hire people and use goods and services. Who produces the goods and services? Yes we definitely benefit when the rich become richer. When the wealthy buy beautiful homes who do you think staffs them? Do these people work for free? Who will provide the furniture and carpeting?
When a new factory or store is opened, again who do you think staffs them?

He understands middle and lower class America? You mean those people he referred to as clinging to their guns and religion and not liking anyone different from themselves?

"I wish people would realize that no doctor can deny born alive babies care. The hippocratic oath requires it."

Josephine, are you joking? The Hippocratic Oath is a antique. Few doctors take it any longer, and it's not taken seriously by those who do. In addition, it's been altered by liberals since they didn't like the original language of it, and they would just alter it again if it actually mattered.

What did the liberals alter in the Hippocratic Oath? The original version prohibited a physician from performing an abortion. So of course that had to go. Only "far right wing radicals" could support something like that. After all, abortion is health care - just ask Obama.

Mary, yes, specifically he said that middle class people from Pennsylvania, people like me, are upset that the government isn't giving us free money, so instead we vote based on asinine issues like the right to life, the right to bear arms, and border security. That's typical insane Democrat argumentation; the idea that middle class Americans would support socialism if only they knew that they would get free money out of it! There have been entire books written about this subject, such as "What's the Matter with Kansas?". Liberals assume that we conservatives are greedy SOBs like them, who would gladly take other people's money that we didn't earn, but that we're also too stupid to understand that "progressive" politicians want to give us other people's money. We're not stupid; we're just not greedy. We want what's ours and nothing else. That's part of being conservative.

But according to Obama, only a frustrated idiot could possibly think that unborn children should have the right to live, or that Americans should have the right to defend themselves, or that our immigration process should be orderly instead of completely chaotic. According to him, I should be voting for socialists instead who will steal money from "the rich" and give it to me.

I sure am glad that Obama "understands" people like me.

This show is just getting started. Let me sit down.

Lewandowski, popcorn please.

The new Achronym. R.O.B.
Rezco Obama Blagojevich

http://volokh.powerblogs.com/posts/1228903890.shtml

enjoy this timeline.

Josephine, Obama and Ayers shared an office, they were obviously much closer than Ayers claimed. A person can say anything they want, but records don't lie.

The records show a deep personal and professional relationship.

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8054792&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

fresh report on Emanuel and yes Obama knew and obama lied again.
thanks to Texas darling.

"And Mary, I think Obama is awesome because: He doesn't want to send me or any of my friends to war, which is great! "

Jo, a commander in chief must use the military if needed. When you joined, you signed up to protect our country if needed. btw: I don't think women should be fighting in wars, at least not in combat roles.

Jasper, perhaps Josephine subscribes to the notion that Islamic fascism is a hoax?

Carder, I've got a bag of Orville Reddenblago in the microwave.

John,

Maybe she's too young to really understand the threat...I don't know....

Mary: "Josephine, What is more 'awesome' about Obama?"

Josephine: "Lots of things."

Yup, I thought that would be her answer. Ask most people with Obama-Biden pins why they support that ticket, and that's the sort of answer you'll likely get. "He's, like, awesome!" "Well, you know, he'll bring change! And...hope! And...dreams!"

"Well, change with respect to what?" you ask.

"EVERYTHING!"

Which, of course, means they can't put their support into words. Or that they'd rather elect the better commencement speaker than the more qualified candidates with the better values. But they're in vast company, of course, because the media were sucked in by the Great Empty Suit just as much as they were, so I guess they shouldn't feel too bad.

I re read the transcript. It looks seems clear that the Democrat chicago Machine is accustomed for pricing services. It looks like Hot Rod Blagojevich started high and Obama wanted free. So they were a way apart on price.

One of the legal/criminal way to do a bribe is in a fundraiser. That make it look open and above board. No parimutual betting in MY state. We sure have a lot of bingo parlors.

John Harris resigned this morning as Gov. Rod Blagojevich's chief of staff, his lawyer said.

Harris dropped off his letter of resignation today in person and will not be going back to the office, according to his lawyer, Terry Ekl.

The first mate bailed!!!!!!!

Now he can start singing. I wonder what Obama will offer to get him to shut up!!!!

For what we know he may have his immunity worked out.

"I don't know why people find it hard to believe Obama is a part of this corruption. It will come as a surprise if he's not."

#1 No evidence of Obama wrongdoing here.
#2 Evidence we do have suggest Obama wouldn't play along.
#3 Obama is too smart to play dirty like this.
#4 Obama doesn't care that much who the next Illinois senator will be.
#5. Obama seems like a man who acts with honor and integrity.

Well, only time will tell. This is only getting started. If Obama is involved he and his cronies will fight tooth and nail to cover it up.

"#5. Obama seems like a man who acts with honor and integrity.

Posted by: Hal at December 12, 2008 2:59 PM"
========================================

"SEEM" is the operative verb here....

Verb
1. to appear to the mind or eye; give the impression of:

....we're only at the beginning of the investigations here, folks...Blago is just the tip of the iceberg that got caught...more to come!

There are sure a lot of flies swarming hal. They like it fresh. I good lawyer sees this case claims extremely many hours of tapes and not much is revealed. The wheels are coming off the chicago Democrat Machine and I know Obama needs another crisis for a distraction. Oh Huffington is all focussed on the ballots in Minnesoota. It is funny that this Senate slot is open and will be for a while. Obama needs 60 and this one empty means what only 55?

Hal. I think Obama will NOT go full term before he gets aborted. He needs to spend some money because he won't get to run again.

Chicago Sun-Times Nov.13, 2008

In a new afterword to his 2001 autobiography, "Fugitive Days" Bill Ayers stated the following:

"We had served together on the board of a foundation, knew one another as neighbors and family friends, held an initial fundraiser at my house, where I'd made a small donation to his earliest political campaign".

Oops,

I should have said that Ayers stated the following concerning Obama.

"#5. Obama seems like a man who acts with honor and integrity.

Posted by: Hal at December 12, 2008 2:59 PM"
========================================

"SEEM" is the operative verb here....

Verb
1. to appear to the mind or eye; give the impression of:

....we're only at the beginning of the investigations here, folks...Blago is just the tip of the iceberg that got caught...more to come!

Posted by: RSD at December 12, 2008 3:15 PM

It Seems Obama is not very bright if he knows how little is going on. He offices in Chicago as we speeak and seems to appear a little to clueless to be able to run a governmnt. I suspect he is tallented at covering his tracks. Too bad taping calls catches people on both ends of a conversation. Please let hal know. It also seems some folks claim to know what Rezco did not spill.

Hey Doug,

Rare snowfall in Mississippi and New Orleans. One million without power in the Northeast following ice storms. Its global warming!!
Better plug up those cows. Their methane is going to incinerate us yet.

So Rod's corrupt. Impeach him. Bush is corrupt. Impeach him too.

Hal,

Man, do you have any pictures of yourself from the 70's wearing a pastel polyester leisure suit, with a floral patterned nylon shirt (with collars that look like the fins on a 1969 Cadillac Coupe de Ville) and platform shoes with 6 inches of lift.

When you look at yourself in those photos, don't you cringe just a little bit and say to yourself, 'Self, what was I thinking when I wore those clothes?'

You are gonna be cringing, again and again, when your uninhibited adulations for the 0'bama (pbuh)are read back to you. You've gone from a cynic to a fanatic in the span of a few weeks.

Tap the breaks bro. Take the long view.

yor bro ken

Mary - I saw that New Orleans snowfall..pretty wild.

Just so they get it cleaned up by the 28th - my wife and her parents and I are going.

Hil-dawg rolls!

Mary,

http://tinyurl.com/24jb

New Zealand Tries to Cap Gaseous Sheep Burps

Doug 7:17PM

LOL. When do we start capping human emissions? Just when you think there's no end to the stupidity.....

Doug,

Have a great and safe trip to New Orleans.

Jill your joy in the pain of democrats makes me question your commitment to being pro-life. When you're so political you seem cold, and heartless. It's kind of sad how blatantly partisan you are.

Friday Night Hot Rod Blago Arrest party.

When do we start capping human emissions?

Mary, my wife has wondered that at times.

bmmg... if you read, I went on to list things I thought.. then asked if she wanted more examples. So, maybe you should start reading? That'd probably help you out.

"Josephine, are you joking? The Hippocratic Oath is a antique. Few doctors take it any longer, and it's not taken seriously by those who do. In addition, it's been altered by liberals since they didn't like the original language of it, and they would just alter it again if it actually mattered.."

Actually-- doctors DO still take the hippocratic oath. And, abortion was NEVER against the hippocratic oath... just some forms of it were. So, there's no way around that.. you're just wrong.

Yo La Tengo, I think my priest said it best. "Democrats are baby killers"... aren't they? Isn't that what we all want... to go kill babies?
They seem to think insulting the people that are in charge will help their cause. I mean, if you were a Democratic leader and someone insulted you CONSTANTLY, wouldn't YOU want to help them? ;) Ha!

Jasper: Yes, a CIC has to send us when needed. If you recall, McCain wanted to send about 200,000 more troops over. We're not needed. I am in the military, and I know that for a fact. :)

Doug,

LOL. So your wife would like to put a cork in you?? :):)

So your wife would like to put a cork in you?

Mary, perhaps. Her prayers have thus far been ineffective.

My bad, Josephine. I had mixed up your later post with that of another.

Which is not to say, of course, that I don't quibble with your reasons...

"And Mary, I think Obama is awesome because: He doesn't want to send me or any of my friends to war, which is great!"

Josephine, no president WANTS to send young people off to war. People have this stereotype of Republicans that they drool over the prospect of military action. Every president who's ever made that extremely difficult decision has agonized over it, I'm sure, regardless of political party. The issue of the Iraq war is a lot more nuanced than most people (on either side) wish to admit, but GWB isn't that rootin'-tootin' cowboy some want to make him out to be.

"I like his health care plan. I think he has good judgment, which is pretty important. I've lived in Illinois my whole life, and Obama was NEVER talked about (in my home or in school) how the other Chicago politicians were talked about. That's a GREAT thing...as we all know, a LOT of Chicago politicians are scumbags."

So...he's the "least bad" Illinois politician?

"He ran a respectable campaign, which I don't think anyone can honestly say about the man he ran against..."

I don't suppose that was intended as a joke. The radio ad in which McCain was accused of being anti-Mexican? The "doesn't know how to use the Internet" ad? Misrepresenting views on medical research? Really?

"I like his tax plan. I think it's great to have a President that understands middle/lower class America. Even if he's not there, he knows it. He knows no one is going to benefit from letting the rich become more rich."

I kept hearing Joe Biden and Barack Obama talk about the GOP supporting "tax breaks for the rich." What they conveniently leave out is that GWB gave tax breaks to EVERYBODY. Instead of acknowledging that, Obama/Biden engaged in blatant class warfare. You do not help the poor by punishing the rich. And I say this as a not-rich person.

jasper: "btw: I don't think women should be fighting in wars, at least not in combat roles."

Assuming they can pass the physical tests, why not?

bmmg, you're adding to things I say.

I didn't say Obama was the "least bad". I said a lot of Illinois politicians are scum bags. He isn't. I didn't say "a lot are scumbags, but they all suck to different degrees" did I? I think

About the war... why exactly do you think we're there? I've heard probably... eight different reasons. All from different military leaders, all having nothing to do with another.

I don't consider the ads you mentioned lying. Hrm... I guess there's really no where to go with that. :)

And, coming from a wealthy family-- I can say he's not punishing us at ALL. It's been the same for years, so... are we supposed to continue doing what's not working? The tax breaks for the rich is SUPPOSED to be so the rich help the economy, create new jobs, etc... and guess what! The money just stayed in bank accounts. It's obviously not working.

I have drill this weekend, so I have allllll night to do this. ;)

Oh, Jasper and bmmg, we can't "fight" in wars. bmmg, it has nothing to do with physical fitness. It has to do with how the men react with women around... trying to be protectors, how it affects them to see a woman dead, etc..

However, in the current "war" there's not a lot of fighting like that. Women are dying just like men because women are still driving trucks and running warehouses, which get bombed..

bmmg,

I just don't think women should have to be in dangerous combat situations. My sister was in the Marines, I'm not against them serving in the military. I just don't like the fact of our women getting shot at or blow up. (not that I like our men to either...).

Josephine, the original Hippocratic Oath contained the language:

"I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion."

The language against euthanasia and abortion has been removed. Do you know why? Because your best friends, the liberal Democrats, didn't like that in there.

But it doesn't matter, because the Hippocratic Oath is no longer taken seriously. SOME doctors still take the oath, but even with them it is more traditional than anything else.

I must say, I remain in a state of absolute shock that anyone who considers himself "pro-life" could remain a member of the Democrat Party. It would be like joining the Republican Party as a means of opposing the war on terror, or joining the Libertarian Party because you want to keep pot illegal.

"Yes, especially when he called abortion survivor Gianna Jessen, a saint walking among us, a "despicable liar"."

That's because she is.

Rae,

Thats awful.

That was the goal, Jasper...

Concerning women fighting wars. Let's not forget Queen Boudica who led the Celts in rebellion against the Romans. The Celts would follow a woman warrior as well as a male.
The warrior tribe in Africa, I believe they were called the Dahomey(sp?) who fought to the death and took no prisoners, except to sell as slaves. Women were raised to be the same ferocious warriors the men were.
While it was Spartan men who served in the military, those Spartan babes weren't ones to be messed with either.
Was there a military leader named Deborah in the Bible?

Josephine 9:46PM

You state that coming from a wealthy family, you're not being punished by taxes at all. Why should you be? Why should the wealthy be punished?
Money sits in bank accounts? So, the wealthy don't buy homes? Let me see, such homes would require a household staff, security systems, groundskeepers, decorators, furnishings, appliances, carpetting. People make a living providing these services. Do the wealthy travel on foot? People make a living producing their cars, planes, and boats.
I assume the wealthy wear clothing and jewels. People make a living producing these.
The wealthy pay property taxes. Let's see, that pays fire fighters, police, teachers...
The wealthy also employ secretaries, personal assistants, office managers, etc.
I say let the wealthy keep their millions, buy as many homes as they want, and build as much business as possible.
Why do you suppose so much business is outsourced? Because we want to "punish" big business.

By the way JOsephine, have you noticed its fine for DEMOCRATS to be wealthy? The Kennedy family comes to mind. John Edwards doesn't exactly scrape by, nor does Al Gore. How about those multimillionaire celebrities who a bigtime Democrats? Oprah was a supporter of Obama.
Interesting double standard wouldn't you say?
Oh, and do you suppose the grocery clerk or welfare mother could arrange the same real estate deal Obama did?

Rae, I think you have confused Gianna Jessen with yourself. After all, one of the two of you is an admitted liar, and it's not Gianna.

Let's not forget Queen Boudica who led the Celts in rebellion against the Romans. The Celts would follow a woman warrior as well as a male.

Mary, awesome story there. I saw a show on the History Channel or something like that about her and the times. She almost went all the way....

Rae,

Are you okay?
How is Gianna a liar?

Rae, why have you decided you want to troll this site instead of actually discuss anymore? You're intentionally provoking people for apparently no reason - why?

Doug,

We must have seen the same program. She almost succeeded. I think her biggest mistake was taking on the Roman army head on. They were a formidable war machine. In my opinion, and this isn't coming from a great military mind, she should have stuck to guerrilla warfare and worn the Romans down.
It was fascinating how that entire debacle came about because of some stupid bureaucrat. The Romans and the conquered Celts were co-existing fairly peacefully until then. Apparently he feared for his safety after the rebellion began. The Romans were none too pleased with him. It amazed me how armies would march for miles on foot, wearing armor and carrying weaponry, and maintaining remarkable discipline.
Overall a fascinating program. Queens were as well trained militarily as kings and warriors followed women commanders.

The question here Bethany is not so much "why", but "why not"?

Mary, yeah - had to be the same show, and you got to really be on her side. I thought the same thing - they totally blew it just charging in and facing the Romans in a manner where the Romans held big advantages - the big shields, techniques, swords, etc.

They had the Roman's pretty well trapped in the woods, just should have laid off and let them starve, or pick them off on the way out if they tried to move.

Doug,

True. Especially since it was pointed out the Celts were best at ambush warfare. They didn't have a prayer against Roman weaponry and military skill.

The show presented the perspective of the Roman soldier in the final confrontation very well. The soldiers facing down what to them were thousands of howling savages trying to unnerve them. They feared their Roman commander just as much!

You've always displayed an interesting perspective on things, Rae. I guess I wasn't expecting you to call Gianna a liar.

Mary.. my family has makes... less just say, more than enough to get tax breaks under previous administrations. We've lived in the same house since I was about five... I think everyone, even the non-wealthy own homes. For the most part, money just sits in the bank. I think everyone in my family(I'm not sure, since some siblings have moved)drive German cars, so we don't support the economy by buying American cars.

So, in your eyes, only "wealthy" people do things like build houses and support the economy? I think I could argue that people that aren't wealthy support the economy by buying more American made cars.... which is why THEY should get a tax break.

By the way, Mary, why is it a double standard that Democrats are wealthy? I don't understand where the whole "double standard" thing came from at all?

I can not understand the complaints against Pres. Bush when it comes to tax cuts. We are hardly wealthy -- my husband makes less than 6 figures a year but has brought home more money while Pres. Bush has been in office than when Clinton was in office.

Josephine,

Hardly. Of course not only the wealthy support the economy. My question is why do we want to tax and punish the wealthy?
Like it or not the wealthy generate a lot of employment.

The double standard is the criticism of the wealthy, except when its Democrats or Democrat celebrities who are wealthy.

Josephine,

Put it this way, let US, the American people, whatever our incomes, keep and spend our money the way we see fit, not give it to a gov't that spends it like a bunch of drunken sailors.
What better way to stimulate the economy then us having our own money to spend.

Obamagate is smelling like a cesspool.

Big mouth Barry has to shuit up. He has no idea what conversations with him are taped.
When his lying lips move, he has to stop. He was going to check with his people to see who spoke. What if the FBI has tapes of people that spoke and din't say they did? Like him?

It is going to cause him pain to argue against tapes. And the left was so fond of him. Tingle the leg happy. I think he is facing abortion.

xppc

What's the latest? I have to maintain the man is innocent until proven guilty.

Mary, on a gut-basic level I agree with you - better to do what we want, rather than have the gov't get the money, as it does not produce any real wealth.

Yet, we do want gov't to do some things, and that requires support. So in the beginning there had to be some taxes, fees, etc. Now, we're far down the road to the other extreme, where gov't is huge and entrenched, IMO now more serving itself than serving the people, intent primarily on maintaining its own status.

You're right that the wealthy generate a lot of employment. What we're having right now is a severe capital shortage, and capital tends to accumulate in the hands of the few, not the many. A capitalist system will produce more total wealth than the others that people have tried, but if unrestrained we end up with a few super-rich and the rest are akin to serfs. So, regulation begins....

On criticism of the rich, I don't really see that, unless you just mean the desire to "soak" them for taxes - some people do indeed feel that way.

And I hear you on Democratic celebrities - there is at times some hypocrisy there. "You all could just use one sheet of toilet paper but by God keep buying my records, too!"

Mary... I already said that the wealthy aren't getting "punished". Paying taxes isn't getting punished. It's how the government works. What Democrat EVER SAID it's not okay to be wealthy? You do realize all these wealthy celebrities who are Democrats are okay with these proposals, right?? It's not like Obama is going to come in and make these CRAZY plans. He's going to let Bush's tax breaks for the wealthy expire. Not a big deal.

Anyway, so, you think people should get to keep all their money and spend it as they see fit? Yeah, screw taxes...

It doesn't work like that.

Doug,

We certainly see eye to eye on this. About capital shortage, let us keep our money!!
So called gov't anti poverty programs have been a colossol, and horrifically expensive failure.
I'm convinced that efforts at social engineering such as forced school busing and urban renewal (being close to my age you should remember these brainstorms) have destroyed neighborhoods and communities.

Josephine,

Maybe the wealthy aren't being punished but if because of taxes they invest less in business, hire fewer people, or use fewer goods and services, who gets punished?
This applies across the board.
For instance I'm not wealthy. Since our home is paid off we hire a lawn service. For us its a great luxury but not a necessity. Now, the leader may finally decree more taxes and since I am in one of the various brackets he has mentioned for raising taxes, they have changed so I'm not sure what it is now, I just may cut out the lawn service. It doesn't hurt me one iota. Who does it hurt? Let me keep my money and I'll continue to enjoy my lawn service and help keep the men employed and paying taxes. I'll also see my beautician more often and help keep her employed and paying taxes.

What I hear Josephine is the criticism of the wealthy. We hear the Republicans called the party of the rich and the Democrats the party of the little guy. If you consider Oprah a "little guy". I just think its interesting that no one has much of an issue with Democrats being rich, the very people who want to go after the rich.
Sure they support Democrats, they always have. They can also put their money where the gov't can't get their hands on it too. On her website Barbara Streisand suggested we use clotheslines and not dryers. This from someone I'm willing to wager hasn't done a load of wash in 40 years.
I'll hang out my wash when Babs' undies are flapping in the breezes of Malibu.
Hey Barbara, if you're all for the "little guy" what about the ones who work in factories producing dryers?

Obama is going to let the tax breaks for the "wealthy" lapse? What for?
Please Josephine get past this class warfare claptrap. Its a ploy to keep you angry. There's plenty of wealth to go around. We just need the damned gov't out of our backpockets.

Yes, I realize we have to pay some taxes, but we also need a gov't accountable for what it spends. The less they have to spend, the better for us.

Josephine: "bmmg, you're adding to things I say...I didn't say Obama was the 'least bad'. I said a lot of Illinois politicians are scum bags. He isn't. I didn't say 'a lot are scumbags, but they all suck to different degrees' did I?"

Your support of BHO just sounded an awfully lot like "Floyd is a great guy; he's never even been to jail" sort of defense; that's all.

"About the war... why exactly do you think we're there? I've heard probably... eight different reasons. All from different military leaders, all having nothing to do with another."

Did any of them resonate with you? I was and am pretty agnostic on the war in Iraq, but I do recognize that bringing democracy and making the area stabler is more of a plus.

"I don't consider the ads you mentioned lying. Hrm... I guess there's really no where to go with that. :)"

Apparently not. If an ad insinuates something about John McCain or Sarah Palin that's false, then it's a mendacious or misleading ad. I'm not sure if I can put it more plainly than that.

"And, coming from a wealthy family-- I can say he's not punishing us at ALL. It's been the same for years, so... are we supposed to continue doing what's not working? The tax breaks for the rich is SUPPOSED to be so the rich help the economy, create new jobs, etc... and guess what! The money just stayed in bank accounts. It's obviously not working."

Will fixing it so that small-business owners are forced to lay people off "work" better? And if the President is to blame for an economic downturn, does that mean you'll give him credit for the six years in which we had a healthy economy in spite of both the biggest terrorist attack and the biggest natural disaster in our history?

Josephine,

Did you hear that in California some Democrat nanny in the local council or state government has decreed the low income citizens of her district are getting too fat? The solution? Ban
the building of any new fast food restaurants. What, now we have the food police?
The unfortunate thing is these restaurants provide employment, especially for local low income youths who like to spend money on CDs and clothes and would likely help local businesses with their extra spending money.
Also, these residents can go elsewhere for fast food. I wonder if the food police will monitor what obese well to do people eat in exclusive restaurants.

Nothing of my support said anything about Obama is the least of the bad. I think what makes Obama ever more special is the fact that he DID come out of a virtual crap storm of Illinois politics and he isn't the same. He and Dick Durbin were never considered part of the horrible Chicago politics.

I believe it's Hal (I'm not sure) that has owned small businesses and commented on that before? My father owns a medical practice, but it's never been a small business, so I can't really comment on that from the "I know because I've been there" point of view.

About Iraq... well, since when is it our job to change the governments in other countries? Luckily, I was never assigned the worst duty ever-- to have to be the one to tell families their loved ones had died, but I do know people who have had to do it. Do you think it was comforting to these families that "we're bringing democracy!" I don't. I don't think it was one damn bit our business to go there. I'm an American soldier. I'm supposed to defend and protect America and the freedoms in America. My oath was never to bring Democracy to another country.

I never, EVER said Bush was responsible for the entire economic downturn. You keep putting words in my mouth, and it's really getting old. I never said that. In fact, I feel BAD for Bush because he will probably go down in history being blamed for this (same as Hoover) and it can't be completely one person's fault. It's unfortunate for Bush. I still don't understand why anyone thinks NOT changing things is the way to fix this problem though.

Mary, LOL-- "some Democrat nanny"... what does that have to do with the party as a whole?

Josephine,

Just pointing out the so called good intentions(I call it efforts to control people) of some and how this hurts people economically.
Just thought I'd mention it was a Democrat.

"By the way JOsephine, have you noticed its fine for DEMOCRATS to be wealthy? The Kennedy family comes to mind"

Mary,

Did you the Kennedy family has a residence in Mass and Florida (but their main residence has always been in Mass), and when it came time to pass on the inheritance, they filed in Florida to avoid the high state tax in Massachusetts. These are the people who are always pushing for higher taxes and they pull these shenanigans. ....as the saying does..'do as I say, not as I do'

Well, I understand what you're saying-- but there are people like that on both sides. I don't think any one person is smarter just because they're a Democrat, or any one person is stupid just because they're a Republican.

People on both sides try to take it too far. I don't think it's unfair for me to say getting rid of tax breaks for the wealthy is a good idea because my family will be affected. I could be wrong. It could be awful. We're in a very bad situation right now though, so something has got to be done.

Raising taxes in this economy is absolutely the wrong thing to do, any good economist will tell you that.

.....Yes, and I'm sure Obama only has the worst economists working with him.

Democrat Donor Bernard Madoff Busted in Massive Ponzi Scheme

Bernard L. Madoff, a former chairman of the Nasdaq Stock Market and a force in Wall Street trading for nearly 50 years, was arrested by federal agents Thursday, a day after his sons turned him in for running what they said their father called "a giant Ponzi scheme."

The Securities and Exchange Commission, in a civil complaint, said it was an ongoing $50 billion swindle, and asked a judge to seize the firm and its assets. "Our complaint alleges a stunning fraud that appears to be of epic proportions," said Andrew M. Calamari, associate director of enforcement in the SEC's New York office.

"Maybe Madoff thought if he made enough contributions to Democrats, he could get away with his scheme indefinitely. It worked for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae — for awhile. The more our economy comes to be based on bailouts, the more standard this will be as the way to do business."

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/12/dem_donor_berna.html

Drudge has it too...

...you know those Dem's are for little guy!!!

Josephine: "I never, EVER said Bush was responsible for the entire economic downturn."

I didn't insinuate that you had. That was the plural "you" back there. You did, of course, seem to say that giving everyone (including the wealthy) a tax break "wasn't working."

Josephine: "...we can't 'fight' in wars. It has nothing to do with physical fitness. It has to do with how the men react with women around... trying to be protectors, how it affects them to see a woman dead, etc.."

That's the problem. If women weren't capable of fighting, it would be one thing. But some gender deprogramming needs to take place here. I'd probably lose my mind if I saw one of my female friends killed, but I'd lose it just as easily if I saw one of my MALE friends killed.

jasper: "I just don't think women should have to be in dangerous combat situations. My sister was in the Marines, I'm not against them serving in the military. I just don't like the fact of our women getting shot at or blow up. (not that I like our men to either...)."

At least you finished your thought with that, but, to me, that's the whole point. I don't care if you (the general "you") are for a war or against a war. The viewpoint I cannot tolerate is the one that says that it's barbaric and disgraceful to send women off to die on the battlefield, but heroic and romantic to send men there. And I am criticizing conservatives on this point moreso than liberals, as they seem to be guilty of it more often. I salute Josephine for serving her country, and I don't want anything bad to happen to her, of course, but I equally worry for any male soldier.

bmmg39,

If there was a draft, do think women should drafted to fight in a war?

About women fighting in war,.. well, I guess I can't speak for everyone, but I know that most of the girls I've known since I've been in are smaller and weaker. I don't mean to sound sexist, but it's true. I mean, listen-- equipment and uniforms are freaking heavy. I'm about 5'3" and 100lbs. I am just not able to do the same things men can do. I know there are some women who can, and some who can do it better.. but I think the majority of us would "get in the way". I think it would make it more dangerous for the men if women were allowed to fight in combat.

Eep. That sounds really sexist. I'm just trying to be honest. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Jo,

I agree. thanks for being honest.

Those packs are heavy too. I still remember the 15 mile march with them in basic training..

Josephine,

You mentioned in one of your posts your father runs a medical practice but its never been a small business.
Let me see, does your father rent office space? Someone makes a profit from that and pays taxes on it. Also people must be employed to maintain the building and clean the offices. Does your father hire office staff? His medical office must be supplied. Someone has to produce these supplies. Does your father have an accountant? Does this accountant have an office staff?
Your father generates employment and wealth. Keeping more of his money means generating even more.
So I make my point??

Josephine,

You may be interested in my Dec.13 7:05am post concerning women in combat. Doug and I had a follow up discussion you may find informative.

How dare Blagojevich ask for money for Oblahma's seat. Obama deserves the money. That is why Oblahma wouldn't coooperate. He wanted the money because it was his seat. Fortunately for Barry O, the tapes with him are still private. He is sweating.

Mary, I didn't say what I wrote applied to ALL women. The majority though, I do believe it applies to. I know, I for one, would probably get in the way. I'm little and all of our gear is heavy. I'd slow people down, and I think I'm little enough that guys would feel like they'd have to protect me. Sure, some women would be great.. I can't deny that. But the majority... I don't think so. Not from my experience.

And, my father owns his office space and leases some of it to other small businesses. And he does employ a lot of people. He voted for Obama. He doesn't care about his tax breaks. He will continue to employ the same amount of people. He will continue to rent his office spaces out, he will continue to own his own building. Guess what! People that make enough money to get these tax breaks, really shouldn't have to fire anyone or shut anything down, they're just being selfish..

Josephine,

I just thought it was some interesting history.

Good for your father! I want to see him get huge tax breaks, expand his business, lease lots of office space, and hire lots more people. Let's hope losing the tax breaks doesn't mean he has to lay people off or can't hire more or expand his practice. Let's also hope those small businesses he leases to don't have to lay off people and maybe stop leasing from your father. Fewer businesses could mean more accountants getting less work. Maybe fewer offices being used means decreasing the maintenance and cleaning staff.
People don't lay off employees or trim their budgets out of selfishness, they do it out of necessity.

Jasper 11:00PM

Ain't that the truth? Not to mention the fortune the Kennedys have had to spend getting out of legal scrapes, not that it matters to liberals and/or Democrats that Teddy left a woman to drown or that he paid a fortune to get his nephew out of a rape charge. Did you hear any feminist support for the woman who alleged this rape? Nor did feminists have an issue with this incident stemming from a night of tomcatting with Uncle Ted, who at the age of 60 must have been suffering delusions of being a college boy.
To top it off, this all occurs as Uncle Ted is passing judgment on the character of Clarence Thomas. You can't make this stuff up!

Posted by: Doug at December 13, 2008 1:25 PM

Posted by: Mary at December 13, 2008 1:51 PM
----------------------------------------------------

Doug and Mary,

There should be, if there is not already, a minimum standard set for active combat duty that is the same for male and female. If anyone is physically, mentally or emotionally unfit, they should be excluded from active combat duty because those who cannot meet the standard would put not only the 'mission' at risk but also their comrades.

Women in the military, who meet or exceed the minimun standard should agree to being temporarily rendered infertil, while they are at risk for combat duty.

If equality of opportunity is the goal, then women should not be allowed to use pregnacy as a way to avoid unwanted combat duty, neither should their prenatal children be put at risk in combat situations.

If active duty women who are at risk for combat duty conceive, then they should be punished and discharged from the service, like any other man would be punished for willfully compromising his ability to complete the mission.

Soldiers are considered government property, and if they willfully injure themselves, at the very least, they are charged with 'damaging government property'.

The military, through training, can overcome the societal pressure put on men to protect women, but it cannot make men or women who are physically, mentally, or emotionally unfit capabale of meeting the standards.

Lowering the minimum standards for military service which may involve combat duty reduces the effectiveness of the team.

There are some women who are both intelligent enough and fast enough to play football in college and even the NFL, but it would be the rare exception to find a woman who is physically strong enough compete in that environment.

In that respect the military is no different.

As citizens of this country we are obligated to give the men and women who are in the military the best opportunity to accomplish the mission of keeping us safe and returning to us alive and well.

The military is not a playground for social experimenters.

yor bro ken

kbhvac,

I certainly agree the military is no place for social experiments. Actually I only meant to point out some interesting history and not get into any debates.
One thing I understand about the warrior societies is that men and women trained and fought seperately. I don't believe Spartan women entered the military though they played an important role in a warrior society. They were some pretty tough babes as well.
Also, the show Doug and I saw pointed out that a Celt queen like Boudica would be as well trained militarily as her husband. Life was brutal and military skill was necessary for survival. Boudica was certainly not some dainty flower but a woman well trained and conditioned over her lifetime for battle.

It is amazing to me to see and hear political comentators on tv excuse the son of a Blagojavich soliciting a bribe as just politics as usual by comparing it with all politcians soliciting campaign contributions.

The real knee slapper was the misobservation by one commentator that the 0'bama (pbuh) had avoided this possible conflict of interest by receiving smaller contributions from many different individuals.

She (who was coicidentally liberal and black)cannot be so ignorant as to not know there was no legal obligation for the 0'bama (pbuh) to identify and record who and where those 'small'contributions actually came from. The 0'bama (pbuh) team implemented the sargeant Schultz strategy, "I see nothing! I see nothing at all!

Much of those of contributions came from a few people outside of this country who had a vested and ideolgoical interest in electing a man they saw as sympathetic, if not supportive, of them and their causes.

McCain-Feingold is responsible for creating that opening and the 0'bama (pbuh) campaign capitalized on the opportunity.

Does anyone remember Mr. Riyadi, the billionaire benefactor from Indonesia who bankrolled the Clinton campaign. Mr. Riyadi owns the majority interest in the second largest known deposit of low sulphur content coal in the world.

The largest known deposit of low sulphur content coal is lcoated in the United States. Slick Willy Clinton, through a presidential executive order, made all that coal off limits to development by declaring the land it is under the Escalante National Wildlife Monument.

I am not economist, but I would think that move enhanced Mr. Riyadi's portfolio considerably.

Come now the 0'bama (pbuh). he says that any utility company that builds a coal powered plant will go bankrupt because it will not be economically feasible for them to operate the plant because of the tax/fees that will be imposed based on the stack emissions of sulphur dioxide.

But wait, there is coal avaiable that has a low enough sulphur content to make these coal fired plants profitable while still meeting the stack emission standards.

Surprise, surprise! There is some located in the USA but tragedy of tagedies, it is unavailable. But wait, there just happens to be some of the same low sulphur content coal available in, wouldn't you know it, Indonesia.

My what a coincidence, the pretentious and presumptive president 0'bama has long standing connection with a Indonesia [some say the 0'bama was and may still be an Indonesian citizen] and an Indonesian businessman, with the last name Riyadi and he has a majority interest in the company that owns those coal reserves.

This cannot be mere coincidence and it could not possibly be conspriatorial. It has to be 'providential'. The righteous wind is still blowin at our backs and the scheming corrupt politicians are still blowing hot air and green house gas in our collecive face.

Legal is not synonomous with right.

yor bro ken

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081212/D951FD4O0.html

'[The son of a] Blagojevich [the S.O.B.] began the day praying with several ministers [Rev. Ira Acree and Rev. Steve Jones] in his home before heading to his office, telling them he is innocent and will be vindicated "when you hear each chapter completely written," according to one of the pastors.'

'The taint of the scandal followed Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. for a third straight day. A report in the Chicago Tribune said businessmen with ties to the governor and the congressmen discussed raising $1 million for [the S.O.B.] to get him to appoint Jackson to Obama's seat.'

'Jackson flatly denied any wrongdoing. "It is unfortunate that every appearance the [S.O.B.] governor makes and meeting he [the S.O.B.] has taints everyone in attendance," Jackson said.'

[Well, I do not know if any MSM commentator has alleged publicly that the 0'bama (pbuh)is 'tainted by his past association and support of the S.O.B., so strictly speaking, JJ,Jr. mispoke.]

[Rahm Israel ]Emanuel The 0'bama (pbuh) chicagoan chief thug noiminee] has refused to answer questions about whether he's the "president-elect [actually presumptive president] adviser" referred to in the criminal complaint that accuses [the S.O.B.] of putting 0'bama's [pbuh] [vacated] Senate seat up for sale. The complaint does not say that [the S.O.B.] ever spoke to the unidentified 0'bama [pbuh] adviser about the Senate seat.'

These Chicago shenanigans are almost as convoluted as the Dallas political circus, where the race card is up every minoity political activist's sleeve and is dealt liberally from the bottom of a stacked deck consisting only of the ace of spades.

yor bro ken

@Posted by: kbhvac at December 14, 2008 10:42 AM

Uhm, so basically... guys should be allowed to have all the sex they want while serving, but women shouldn't.. because having sex would be risking her career?

That hardly seems fair, dear. Especially since those that DON'T qualify for what you described would ALSO be allowed to have sex. Just the physically fit women couldn't....

We certainly see eye to eye on this. About capital shortage, let us keep our money!!

Mary, have to laugh - imagine that, huh?
....

So called gov't anti poverty programs have been a colossol, and horrifically expensive failure.

Yeah, going back to Johnson's "War on Poverty" programs, we bought into poverty wholesale, and poverty is what we got.
.....

I'm convinced that efforts at social engineering such as forced school busing and urban renewal (being close to my age you should remember these brainstorms) have destroyed neighborhoods and communities.

There have been both good and bad effects.

Tell you what - there is no good way out of our economic situation. Not Obama, not McCain, not anybody of any political party.

What's going to happen? Either drastic deflation (in effect now) or hyperinflation (and gov't policies are aimed at avoiding deflation, come what may) and neither one is worth a crap for most people.

Doug,

The only solution I see is cutting taxes and letting market forces do their magic.
Bush's allowing for this bailout fund was a huge, huge disappointment to me.
Now we have everyone going to Washington with their hat in hand, looking for a bailout, when their economic problems are the result of their own mismanagement. And that includes our governor!

Mary, there is no way it's politically possible to "let the market do its magic."

Sad to say.

Ken, have you heard of the massive amounts of rapes occuring amongst female soldiers in Iraq, and how they seem to suddenly 'disappear'?

Doug,

Again we agree.

Mary - yeah, and thus my pessimism for our economy.

Debt and unfunded liability is almost $200,000 for each American. Will this ever be paid off?

Especially when gov't is really just adding to that amount all the time?

And when our system is hooked not just on debt but on ever-expanding debt (the gov't)?

Mary, one other thing we agree on - it's a ******* cold day out there today.

Doug,

Amen on both posts my friend.

Posted by: Josephine at December 14, 2008 9:09 PM

Uhm, so basically... guys should be allowed to have all the sex they want while serving, but women shouldn't.. because having sex would be risking her career?

That hardly seems fair, dear. Especially since those that DON'T qualify for what you described would ALSO be allowed to have sex. Just the physically fit women couldn't....

-----------------------------------------------------

Reread my post. I made no comment about limiting sexual activity. I believe the UCMJ already does that.

Just suggested that women, who meet the same minimum standards for combat duty as men, should not be permitted to avoid combat by a 'planned or unplanned pregnancy.'

It is about providing for the best opportunity for the success of the 'mission' and the survivability of the members of the military.

Women can and do have sex without conceiving. Men do not get pregnamt, women do. The success of the 'mission' is the first priority.

-----------------------------------------------------
Posted by: Erin at December 15, 2008 12:15 PM

Ken, have you heard of the massive amounts of rapes occuring amongst female soldiers in Iraq, and how they seem to suddenly 'disappear'?

----------------------------------------------------

Rape, no matter the gender of the parties involved, is always wrong. The UCMJ prohibits rape. Undisciplined people commit rape. These by definition are not fit for the military.

The military is not a laboratory for social planners. The law of 'unintended consequences' imposes itself no matter what the setting.

Not only does the inicidence of rape increase when women are quartered in close proximity to men but the rate of prostitution and pregnancy and abortion also increase.

The military invests huge sums of money to train soldiers with the expectation that these people will be available 24/7 to do what they have been trained them to do.

If a male soldier shoots himself in the foot to avoid combat duty, then he compromises the mission. Someone else has to pick up the slack created by his willful act.

If a female soldier conceives either by default or design, she is just as unavailable for duty.

Military service is a privilege and sometimes an obligation. It is never a right or an entitlement.

yor bro ken

"Reread my post. I made no comment about limiting sexual activity. I believe the UCMJ already does that."

Uhm.. having sex is risking getting pregnant, isn't it? And if they get pregnant.. they lose their career? Seems like that would lead to more abortions.. which I thought is what we were against. Lots of women have sex without getting pregnant. Lots of women have protected sex and get pregnant. Hrm....