Dr. to Oprah, Michael J. Fox: embryonic stem cells bad

Jivin J touched on this last week while I was on vacation, but I wanted to expound.

Oprah spotlighted Parkinson's Disease on her March 30 show, featuring her own doctor, Mehmet Oz, author of the best-selling YOU book series, and actor and PD sufferer Michael J. Fox.

Fox is well-known as a self-serving proponent of human embryo experimentation. One of my columns getting the most feedback was, "Michael J. Fox is a cannibal."

I can't imagine what Fox must have thought when Dr. Oz actually gave a visual demonstration with Fox's inadvertent help to show why embryonic stem cells wouldn't ever work as a PD treatment and, in fact, the fight over the stem cell issue likely ate up valid research time.

Dr. Oz went on to say he thought important PD treatment would be seen within the decade. The sad fact is Fox has thwarted his own help.

Josh Brahm has issued a Life Report on this Oprah segment, including the show clip:

The person writing Oprah's highlights was obviously either a Fox fan or escr proponent or both, dismissing the debate as only moral, thus ignoring Dr. Oz's scientific explanation why escr is bad and adult stem research is good....

This writer also allowed Fox's blame of the Bush administration to stand unanswered as to the delay of success.

Actually, the writer didn't even know what s/he was talking about, stating Dr. Oz indicated "stem cells aren't the only solution," only going on to describe adult stem cell treatment.

oprah oz slide 2.JPG
oprah oz slide 1.JPG


Comments:

*rips out hair* I gotta get my audio up and running. I will admit that I am a little confused about the entire stem cell research. Embrionic vs. Adult. Do they use the snowflake babies for embryonic?

Posted by: Heather at April 7, 2009 8:30 AM


Prayers that the Lord uses this revelation to open MJ Fox's
eyes to His truth and that Mr. Fox will repent of advocating destroying innocent human life to save his own.

Glory!

Posted by: Leslie Hanks at April 7, 2009 8:41 AM


The liberal mainstream media is not interested in facts and truth, only their agenda. If science seems to get in the way of their agenda, then just ignore the science and facts and go back to the morals issue and you'll have all the liberal bleeding hearts on your side.

Please, Oprah, get some one on your staff who can understand science!!

Posted by: lovethemboth at April 7, 2009 8:42 AM


Heather,

The bioethics of stem cell research is something i have studied quite a bit. To answer your question, yes. A snowflake baby could just as easily be USED to harvest its stem cells and consequently killed. It all depends on the wishes of the parents because, after all, they OWN the child. So if they want to donate their leftover embryo to science, that's cool. If they want to allow the embryo to be adopted by someone, that's cool too.

Does that answer your question?

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at April 7, 2009 8:49 AM


Embryos, which are eggs that have been fertilized by sperm,(why don't we know and understand that yet?)that are not intended for research can be used in adoption. The parents allow them to be adopted by others. Snowflake babies. :)

http://www.snowflakes.org

Posted by: Carla at April 7, 2009 8:49 AM


LTB@8:42am

You hit the nail on the head. An agenda, not science, is what drives the liberals as well as exploitation of personal tragedy, such as with Michael J. Fox. The sad fact is that Fox truly felt he was supporting a noble cause, as did Christopher Reeve.
Because of this American citizens fly to other countries such as Thailand and China for ASC treatment, and countries such as S.Korea and Portugal are leaving us in the dust with advances in ASC treatment while we sit in a time warp.

Concerning Oprah, she would indeed have more credibility if she got her scientific facts instead of orgasmically howling over the election of Obama.

Posted by: Mary at April 7, 2009 9:03 AM


I like Fox. he is not an M.D. He doesn't really know what he is talking about. He is also like Oprah trying to make this a liberal political talking point.

An agenda doesn't cure.

Posted by: xppc at April 7, 2009 9:14 AM


Bobby and Carla, thank you! Mary, re:Oprah..LOL!

Posted by: Heather at April 7, 2009 9:24 AM


Mary, LTB - you're right, and you make a good point - it's vital we not frame or call others who hold a different viewpoint an "enemy", unless they actually are in both word and deed.

This is a critical lesson that Gen. Petraeous worked on when he rewrote the US counter-insurgency manual, then implemented in the field in Iraq. Those who once opposed us stopped opposition because they faced a greater threat, and they learned the truth.

It's very wise to be compassionate with Michael J. Fox who is not so much anti-life, but passionate about life and perhaps ignorant of both the science and ethics of HESCR. The very things that make his life invaluable (he's a human being) is the exact same thing that makes the embryonic- stage human being also intrinsically valuable - by the nature of what it is, and not by what it does.

We love people for who they are - not what they do.

Everyone can agree with that, but not everyone practices it. Easy to say, hard to do.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at April 7, 2009 9:24 AM


It seems that when something happens to celebrities,a medical condition, they suddenly think they are absolute experts on the subject. Just like Tom Cruise blasted Matt Lauer on the Today Show over the use of anti-depressants after pregnancy. For heaven sakes. How would he know how women feel?? Ever been pregnant before Tom? Shut up and act!

Posted by: Heather at April 7, 2009 9:36 AM


I remember when actress Susanne Summers announced that she had breast cancer. She also had an abortion is her past. I remember her saying that she had opted for herbal therapy to treat the cancer, and thank God she is cancer free today! It's unfortunate that she doesn't see the abortion/breast cancer link though!

Posted by: Heather at April 7, 2009 9:41 AM


@ Heather at April 7, 2009 9:36 AM

I couldn't agree with you more! After I received my cancer diagnosis I threw myself into learning as much as I could about it. I will never claim to be an exspert but I will claim that I teach women the basics on the cancer I had so they can help themselves.

Celebs need to get over themselves, people idol them and I have no clue why. M.J. Fox needs to stop what he's doing and take a look behind him. His words can influence a lot since he's a celeb.

Posted by: AK Krystal at April 7, 2009 9:53 AM


Chris Arsenault,

I didn't call anyone an enemy. I feel the personal tragedies of Fox, as well as the late Christopher Reeve, were cruelly exploited. I don't for a minute question the sincerity or good intentions of either of these men. I in fact greatly admire Reeve for his dedication to helping people with with spinal injuries.

Posted by: Mary at April 7, 2009 9:55 AM


Heather - the best way to think about embryos:

The word "embryo" defines a stage or time span of development of a particular species of mammal. Any creature growing through that time-span of development is called an "embryo", but that's only descriptive of that development stage and not the ontology of that creature. So it needs to be qualified as to the type of being it is - dog, cat, dolphin, human.

Notice also that as a stage of life an embryo as a creature of some type is alive/living. Stopping that living process is called killing and the result is a dead embryo of some creature type.

We don't normally kill something before we know what it is - you must answer the question "What is it?" to determine whether it's permissible to kill it. The human embryo is a human creature that is existing - it is a human "being" in the here and now.

If someone wants to reduce the embryo to a clump of cells - tell them they are a clump of cells. If they say the embryo is not thinking or sentient, ask them does thinking make a human being a person?

If they answer yes, as "if you were killed could you as a human being still think?"

That's unanswerable without appealing to spiritual definitions of person. As a human being - the answer is no.

See this for the rest of the argument:

http://www.thrufire.com/blog/2009/02/biosled-anti-abortion-argument/

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at April 7, 2009 9:58 AM


AK Krystal, I know! They have every right to believe what they want to, but please don't speak for all of us! It's also important to remember that a lot of these celebrities have never even made it through high school. I think I'll self educate and listen to a doctor who knows more than I.

Posted by: Heather at April 7, 2009 9:59 AM


Mary, I agree. I think that sometimes their intentions are good, but they aren't educated enough to give out correct information. Either that, or they won't take their blinders off.

Posted by: Heather at April 7, 2009 10:01 AM


AK Krystal, I'm sorry to hear you have/had cancer. Are you okay??

Posted by: Heather at April 7, 2009 10:06 AM


Posted by: Mary at April 7, 2009 9:55 AM
---

Sorry Mary - it does appear I was correcting you, when I was actually in agreement, but emphasizing the point you were making. I should have made that clear.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at April 7, 2009 10:09 AM


If they answer yes, as "if you were killed could you as a human being still think?"

The two words, "human being", should be defined and made absolutely understood before one begins a discussion in matters of abortion or ESCR.

The "neuron", the physical matter, which functions as the "thinking matter of a human", doesn't actually think, or is aware of itself from birth to death. Any argument arising from "sentinence" is based upon a logical dilemma, or the riddle, that the matter, which makes matter aware, is not aware of itself.

Or, without sensory input of any type, taste,touch,smell,etc, a "human being" could still "do math", of any complexity.



Posted by: yllas at April 7, 2009 10:48 AM


I believe the bottom line for this whole debate is money. Scientists see untold dollar signs with embryonic stem cell research where they know they really don't have to produce any credible results anytime soon. It is a lifetime of job security as long as you show some progress every now and then. I know this sounds cynical, but in today’s world where the individual is promoted over the group (society), is it really so far fetched to believe that money drives these people. Look around, the accumulation of fame and fortune is what drives our current society. People look at this as showing you have succeeded. Look at American Idol and how popular it is. Even the names shows we have lost something, and it is that fame and fortune that so many worship. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with wanting to make money and provide for yourself and your family.
Adult stem cells treatment or the reprogramming of adult cells to perform like stem cells is already showing results. Adult Stem Cells has already helped a number of people with various diseases. Most people don't know this, as the media is unwilling to promote it because it is not embryonic stem cells. The use of adult cells is working, that is a fact. The use of embryonic stem cells involves a set of risks that using your own cells negates. Embryonic stem cells are known to cause tumors because of their nature they reproduce rapidly and go out of control. That is their nature as they are designed to grow rapidly because they are programmed to form a whole new human being. Even if they did cure a disease in a person, that individual would have to worry about cancer.
In addition to worrying about cancer, there is the fact that as they are not cells from your own body the threat of rejection is always present. The body will look at them as foreign material, which is exactly what they are. To prevent this, anti rejections drugs would have to be taken. If we take Type I diabetes, the patient would be exchanging their daily injections for daily consumption of pills to prevent the rejection of the embryonic stem cells. One would also have to worry about a compromised immune system.
I don't know why the media has a fixation with embryonic stem cells. Maybe with Bush out of office their need to write negative article or do negative stories about him will end this cheerleading of embryonic stem cells as the only option worth pursuing.
I have heard that research scientists are being told by their Universities to not promote adult stem cells in the public forum or risk losing their positions. A major Medical Magazine went from having articles on Adult stem cells to actively promoting embryonic stem cells. This is hearsay, but my source on these two statements is credible.
I believe the US government spends somewhere in the range of 22 billion on AIDS research. That is an incredible amount for a disease that affects a relatively small portion of the population, and is a very preventable disease if one makes simple common sense measures to prevent getting it.
Think if the money for embryonic stem cells (from private sources right now) and the amount spent on AIDS was spent on Adult Stem/Cell research. Right now the cure for many diseases might have already happened or been right around the corner. My son is a Type I diabetic. I would never condone the destruction of an embryo (a human life) in order to cure him, and fortunately he feels the same way. It is immoral to take an innocent life to save another.

Posted by: David Kyle at April 7, 2009 10:52 AM


David, I'm sorry to hear of your son's diabetes.

My son also has endocrine issues, though they are not life threatening. I've heard that they are making some progress twoards more long term treatments apart from ESCR. I really hope that the scientists will keep going down this road instead of throwing all of their time and energy into ESCR.

Posted by: Lauren at April 7, 2009 11:03 AM


Chris A. 10:09am

Thank you. Not a problem. Sometimes across the internet our meaning can get a little garbled. People have misunderstood me more than once.

Posted by: Mary at April 7, 2009 11:13 AM


Great comments here.

Jill, I'm so happy you are posting this story since The Oprah Show has such an enormous influence on what topics Americans think about.

Dr. Oz is a friend of Oprah's who could possibly turn her on to the abortion debate. I went to her website today and noticed the following request for viewer input for a future show. Perhaps one of Jill's readers would be inclined to respond to Oprah's producers with a video comment on this ESCR story and/or allude to the abortion issue?

Do You Want To Thank Dr. Oz?
Are you a fan of our doctor on call Dr. Oz? Have you watched a show with our doc that has inspired you to change your life? Has something you have heard from our resident doctor resonated with you? Or after seeing a show with Dr. Oz has it actually saved your life?
The Oprah Winfrey Show wants you to send in videos to Dr. Oz telling him how he has helped you in your life because of what you have seen on the show. Please upload your message to him with this email or send it ASAP to:

The Oprah Winfrey Show
C/O Team TG
110 N Carpenter St
Chicago, IL 60607

Thank you!

https://www.oprah.com/plugform_nodata.jsp?plugId=1694931&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oprah.com%2Findex

Posted by: Janet at April 7, 2009 11:39 AM


I don't think that Michael J. Fox is foolish or bent on stem cell research. I think that he is looking for a cure. And I think that if more attention was given to adult stem cells, he would pursue that more than embryonic stem cells. How many people would honestly claim the life of an embryo without life or death motivation, especially if they are aware and have access to adult stem cells, or if science is finding ways to make the embryo argument moot?

I think that this leaves pro-life with two tasks:

1). Start spreading the news about non-embryonic stem cell research. Write about it all over your blogs, local newspapers, or send out letters to your community. Even if you're okay with embryonic stem cell research, the advances against any disease such as Fox's is something to celebrate, so this is not something for pro-life and pro-choice to fight over. :). Just get out the word on good news in the world.

2). If you can, donate to stem cell research. More advances can come. From anyone. Even if you can only give a penny, it is worth treasures in the eyes of the ill and certainly in the eyes of God.

Posted by: Vannah at April 7, 2009 11:48 AM


I just can't understand why Fox's organization isn't pouring money into adult stem cells now. He's so focused on the "fight" with Bush, which is moot at this point anyway, he's going to slow down his own cure just to try and save face.

Posted by: Kristen at April 7, 2009 11:51 AM


Posted by: yllas at April 7, 2009 10:48 AM
------

I'm aware of the self-awareness metaphysical argument, but for basic reasoning, if one destroys the tissue, whether that tissue is sentient or not, after destruction there no possibility of such a creature 'thinking'.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at April 7, 2009 12:12 PM


AK Krystal, I'm sorry to hear you have/had cancer. Are you okay??

Posted by: Heather at April 7, 2009 10:06 AM
____________________________________________

Yes I do have cancer still, the cancer tumors were removed on 3-23-09 and right now I'm dealing with an infection from the removal process. I have cervical cancer that spread to the uterus. I had my tubes tied when my last son was born 2 years ago and since my ovaries were placed away from my uterus during that procedure my ovaries have been saved.
I still have cancer cells forming but we're fighting it until its all gone. Cervical cancer kills and people think oh you have cervical caner?! Easy fix, the doctor just cuts it all out. But its painful and most women don't get it caught in time and end up having to go through all sorts of uncomfortable things to get rid of it. Didn't a reality start JUST die from this cancer?? Yes she did! So Cervical cancer is not a non-scarey cancer like most think, it freaks the he*l out of me!
But I'm doing okay now because knowledge is power! I educated myself on everything that I could and asked a lot of questions with lots of family members and doctors.
Also, I just quit smoking yesterday( PLEASE PRAY FOR ME I'M GOING CRAZY!! ) and I had a lady offer me free personal training from her for the next 60 days. She is a local Alaska Pin-Up model and volunteered her services to me so I can get back into a shape others than soft lol.
So things are looking up, but those prayers for not smoking would be really nice. . . . . ;)

Posted by: AK Krystal at April 7, 2009 12:17 PM


AK Krystal,
I'll be praying that your attempt to quit smoking is a success!

Posted by: Janet at April 7, 2009 12:20 PM


Krystal,
I will pray too!!

Posted by: Carla at April 7, 2009 2:17 PM


God bless you, AK Krystal. We'll all be praying for you and sending you lots of hopeful thoughts.

Posted by: Vannah at April 7, 2009 2:21 PM


Posted by: AK Krystal at April 7, 2009 12:17 PM
----
In our prayers.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at April 7, 2009 2:53 PM


I'm aware of the self-awareness metaphysical argument, but for basic reasoning, if one destroys the tissue, whether that tissue is sentient or not, after destruction there no possibility of such a creature 'thinking'.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at April 7, 2009 12:12 PM

I agree. No doubt about it. Death/destruction stops awareness.

But, the fact remains, no "tissue" is self-aware.

What makes us aware of ourself, isn't aware of itself. Sentinence itself, is based on a physical material which contains no awareness within it's properties.

Posted by: yllas at April 7, 2009 4:50 PM


Embryonic stem cell research does NOT involve using fetuses, babies, or people EVER. The cells in a blastocyst are a microscopic undifferentiated smear in a petri dish created in the lab. Everyone who talks about "taking a life" - which we would all oppose - should take a look at the cells in question and THEN tell me it is a person. This would be a good argument if it were true, but like the great "success" of adult stem cells - it is FALSE. I've had Parkinson's disease for 13 years and I know.

Posted by: Rayilyn Brown at April 7, 2009 5:27 PM


But, the fact remains, no "tissue" is self-aware.
Posted by: yllas at April 7, 2009 4:50 PM
-------

Actually, at the biochemistry level of organisms there is an awareness, not in the way we think of it, but presence is essential. While I tend to agree with you re: sentience, I think the cumulative presence is still something that needs to be scientifically (an ethically) explored.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at April 7, 2009 5:41 PM


"Fox is well-known as a self-serving proponent of human embryo experimentation. One of my columns getting the most feedback was, "Michael J. Fox is a cannibal."

Self-Serving? the guy has Parkinsons... Jeez cut the kid some slack. He's freakin' dying!!!

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 7, 2009 5:42 PM


Rayilyn, I'm sorry to hear of your Parkinsons. My grandmother has also had the disease for 15 years, so I have seen how it affects a person.

That said, you are vastly misinformed about the issue. Simply having a disease that the media say can be "cured" by ESCR does not make you an expert.

Also, adult stem cells have shown real promise, where as ESCR have thus far resulted only in horrific tumors.

http://www.wesleyjsmith.com/blog/2009/02/fetal-stem-cells-cause-tumors-in-human.html

You claim: "Embryonic stem cell research does NOT involve using fetuses, babies, or people EVER. The cells in a blastocyst are a microscopic undifferentiated smear in a petri dish created in the lab. Everyone who talks about "taking a life" - which we would all oppose - should take a look at the cells in question and THEN tell me it is a person. "

Yes, post amphimixis, a new human individual is created. That individual has begun the continuem of life which ends at natural death.

Differentation and progressive development occur hand and hand. Nothing leaps into existence. Nothing occurs which transforms these cells into a person post fertilization. They simply grow and develop.

There is no personhood fairy. There is no point, appart from amphimixis, that fundamentally changes the essence of the living being.

There is nothing biologically to support your claim that these embryos lack humanity or personhood. In fact, science definitively states that they are as human as anyone else in the world.

You point to no other time in the course of a life when a shift to humanity occurs.


YLT, dying does not give one the right to kill innocents.

Posted by: Lauren at April 7, 2009 5:59 PM


re: YLT, dying does not give one the right to kill innocents.
Posted by: Lauren at April 7, 2009 5:59 PM

Tell that to our so-called heroes in Iraq and Afganistan - right there you've pretty much invalidated the cause for war on both fronts.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 7, 2009 7:28 PM


Posted by: AK Krystal at April 7, 2009 12:17 PM

Krystal, you are in my prayers.

Look into http://www.chantix.com/ if you need help quiting. Or Commit lozengers..

Posted by: Jasper at April 7, 2009 7:54 PM


I am so thankful for Dr. Oz getting up there and telling the truth.

My son has had type one diabetes since he was 14 months old. We pray everyday for a cure but will not support a cure from embryos.

Posted by: Therese at April 7, 2009 7:55 PM


YLT, you're embaressing yourself.

Posted by: Lauren at April 7, 2009 7:59 PM


Lauren 5:59PM

Most important, ESCs have not proved successful in treating anything. ASCs have. Why do we remain in this time warp while the rest of the world leaves us in the dust? That's the real question.

Posted by: Mary at April 7, 2009 8:36 PM


Therese,

Like your son, my husband has been afflicted with Type I diabetes for almost 30 years. When he first developed it he had no clue what diabetes even was.
He would never want another life destroyed to cure him either.

Posted by: Mary at April 7, 2009 8:39 PM



It was rumored that actress Farah Fawcett had flown to Germany to receive ESC therapy for her metastatic cancer that she couldn't get in the United States. This rumor was later said to be false, that she only sought "alternative" therapies, which can mean anything.

Posted by: Mary at April 7, 2009 8:55 PM


YLT,

Our "so-called" heroes? I consider any person who willingly puts their life on the line to serve us, be it a soldier, police officer, or fire fighter, a hero.

Posted by: Mary at April 7, 2009 8:57 PM


YLT: "Tell that to our so-called heroes in Iraq and Afganistan - right there you've pretty much invalidated the cause for war on both fronts."

Wow. What a sh*thead. Do all of you on the fence see why those of us on the right often call those on the left anti-soldier? The left likes to say "we are against the war, but support the troops." BS.

Posted by: Oliver at April 7, 2009 11:25 PM



I remember when fetal tissue transplants were being promoted as a miracle cure. This therapy was tested on Parkinson's patients.
Not only did their symptons worsen, but they were also resistant to medication.
Tragically, the PD patients wound up far more debilitated than they had been in the first place.

So much for claims of miracle cures.

Posted by: Mary at April 8, 2009 8:32 AM


Self-Serving? the guy has Parkinsons... Jeez cut the kid some slack. He's freakin' dying!!!

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 7, 2009 5:42 PM

He's not a kid, and his extensive use of a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, otherwise known as cocaine, might be a cause of his getting Parkinson's, as a "kid".

Parkinson's is a disease associated with age. But, since a generation has become addicted to a drug that affects dopamine production and use, the results are getting a disease at a "kid age", instead of "old age".

Well, that's why you call a person using street drugs, produced by high school dropouts, a DOPE.

Tell me, YTL, how's your cocaine use been going?

Do you have light headed spells? Like your going to faint? How's your blood pressure? When you get up from a sitting position, have you felt wobbly, and want to fall over for a second?

Fox should do the world a favor, and announce his old age disease, was caused by being a pig for dopamine as a "kid".

"Don't do cocaine, or you'll end up like me". Short and sweet.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 8, 2009 8:56 AM


Anon 8:56am

Be very careful about making assumptions, which is what you are doing. People abuse drugs and do not develop Parkinson's. Please google early onset Parkinson's Disease.

Posted by: Mary at April 8, 2009 9:49 AM


AK Krystal, I had to log off yesterday. Just now returning. I'm so very sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I kicked smoking myself. It can be done!! I'll be praying for you!!!

Posted by: Heather at April 8, 2009 12:14 PM


Be very careful about making assumptions, which is what you are doing. People abuse drugs and do not develop Parkinson's. Please google early onset Parkinson's Disease.

Posted by: Mary at April 8, 2009 9:49 AM


Ya Mary, you go and google early onset of Parkinson's, and then I'll ask you what orthostatic hypotension and dopamine have in common.

"Kids", like Fox, are getting postural hypotension attacks and falling flat on their face. It comes from their dopamine being unregulated or lacking the ability to control their BP during postural changes.

Am I to understand that you think that Parkinson's early onset symptoms, is tremors, Mary? Many Parkinson patients have "silent Parkinson's", no tremors or movement disorders.

.

Regulating Postural BP in a person with Parkinson's is difficult from their lacking dopamine.

You can bet Fox is the tip of the iceburg of what is to come for a generation that is old before their time.

Tell me Mary, why do Parkinson's patients "freeze up" when entering or exiting a doorway?


"People who abuse drugs"............. who said Fox was abusing drugs? He was enjoying the use of a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. When is it abuse Mary? What scientific methodology is found to measure "abuse"?


Now here is my assumption, Mary.

Cocaine use is a cause of "Kid Parkinson's" from using cocaine. Cocaine was, and is a junk drug, which was abandoned by pharmacolgy because of its uncontrolled effects on BP. You know, basketball players having their "heart explode" in front of their adoring fans.

Do you deny that Mary?

Do you deny that Parkinson's is presenting itself in greater numbers amongst "younger patients" then before?

Do you think that this rise in early onset Parkinson's is just from early diagnosis, hailing from people having tremors(hah hah) or having unexplained, falling flat on their face, "fainting spells"?

Fox might not even have Parkinson's, since the only "real diagnosis" of Parkinson's is to have a autopsy performed. He might just have MSA, or MSA with Orthostatic hypotension, or he could have just taken some bad dopamine reuptake inhibitors, street named cocaine, that is causing his substantia nigra to shrink and die at a "kid's age".

Which leads to differentiating if one has MSA or Parkinson's.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 8, 2009 2:07 PM


Maternal cocaine use during pregnancy is a widespread problem, which leads to a spectrum of behavioral, cognitive, and motor dysfunctions. Animal and human studies have attempted to define the specific neurologic centers damaged by prenatal cocaine exposure. Since 1991, attempts to document MR imaging changes in the brains of animals and humans exposed to cocaine in utero have produced mixed results. Findings of brain MR imaging of exposed children are generally reported to be anatomically normal.1,2

The substantia nigra, locus ceruleus, ventral caudate, and ventral tegmental area have been implicated as focal targets of cocaine, resulting in neuronal activation, reduced cell attenuation, and apoptosis.3,4 Additionally, prenatal exposure to cocaine has been associated with cardiac arrhythmias, congestive heart failure, cardiorespiratory arrest, and death.5 We present a case of MR imaging changes in the substantia nigra and several other focal midbrain and brain stem centers in a child exposed to cocaine and heroin in utero. The patient also had severe left ventricular dysfunction at presentation.

Smith L, Chang L, Yonekura M, et al. Brain proton magnetic resonance spectroscopy and imaging in children exposed to cocaine in utero. Pediatrics 2001;107:227–31


The left ventricular dysfunction, and heroin use, is well known in the medical research field.

During the Korean war, Chinese doctors noticed this left ventricular dysfunction amongst young American soldiers they performed autopsies on. They also knew that those soldiers were heroin users from interviewing them. The Chinese doctors were the first to connect heroin, opium use, with what is a failing heart. Hence, the pushing/manufacture of heroin became a state directive to simply make as many soldiers incapacitated as possible. You can't run and shoot if your heart is failing to do it's job.

Posted by: Anonymous at April 8, 2009 2:27 PM


Anon 2:07PM

First of all, are you aware Jill does not approve of anonymous posters?

Second, I'm saying we do not know for certain what caused Fox's PD and we can only make assumptions. I was pointing out there is early onset PD.

Yes, I am aware of the risk of maternal drug usage. I need no documentation for that. Again, drug abusing mothers have babies who grow into normal healthy children who grow into normal healthy adults. Mothers who do everything "right" have children born with anamolies or children who develop them later in life.

BTW anon, I've had postural hypotension since I can remember and have fainted several times since childhood. Would you assume I'm a cocaine abuser with depleted dopamine?

Posted by: Mary at April 8, 2009 3:57 PM


Mary, it's nice to see you!

Posted by: Heather at April 8, 2009 4:11 PM


Rayilyn Brown is a Parkinson's patient, but she's also been spreading misinformation for years. I've crossed paths with her before, and she does nothing but make weak attempts at discrediting the great things done for Parkinson's patients with the use of adult stem cells. It is a scientific FACT that human embryos are human beings -- whether Rayilyn Brown "personally feels" that they are or not.

Posted by: bmmg39 at April 8, 2009 5:09 PM


Jill, two weeks ago I watched a program on Animal Planet in which a dog was suffering neurological damage. He was cured with HIS OWN STEM CELLS, okay. Okay, everybody?! The dog went from being disabled to prancing around. However, the voice over was almost in hushed tones; you'd miss "the dog's own stem cells" if you weren't paying close attention. This tells me that success stories involving non-embryonic stem cells will be/are being censored.

Posted by: nina at April 8, 2009 6:01 PM


Yes, Nina: ASC successes are often treated hush-hush. Not always, of course, and I believe the whole media blockade is beginning to crumble -- mostly because more people like you and I understand the issue and educate people via blogs and message boards.

Posted by: bmmg39 at April 8, 2009 7:31 PM


Posted by: Oliver at April 7, 2009 11:25 PM

I think most soldiers would prefer to live without the PTSD, shrapnel and other damage inflicted upon them. I've got 3 supervisors at work who fought in various wars, and it wrecked their lives. How many wars have you fought in? Or do you just play video-games?

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 8, 2009 7:44 PM


I've noticed over the years that pro-ESCR advocates will try to change the topic to Iraq or the death penalty or prayer in schools or whatnot when they realize that they're soundly losing the debate at hand.

Posted by: bmmg39 at April 8, 2009 8:22 PM


I've noticed over the years that pro-ESCR advocates will try to change the topic to Iraq or the death penalty or prayer in schools or whatnot when they realize that they're soundly losing the debate at hand.

Posted by: bmmg39 at April 8, 2009 8:31 PM


YLT, I'm sure that given the choice, they would prefer to be free of PTSD, etc. but the men and women who enter the military know that there is the possibility that they may have to go to battle, be wounded or killed. That is the reality of being a soldier. etc. Thank goodness that there are men and women of honor who love their country and want to serve and protect the rest of us.

Posted by: Eileen #2 at April 8, 2009 9:21 PM


YLT, quit talking out of both sides of your mouth -- you mock and then practically accuse our military of deliberately killing innocents then feign concern over former military who are suffering in some way.

Posted by: Eileen #2 at April 8, 2009 9:24 PM


I think most soldiers would prefer to live without the PTSD, shrapnel and other damage inflicted upon them. I've got 3 supervisors at work who fought in various wars, and it wrecked their lives. How many wars have you fought in? Or do you just play video-games?

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 8, 2009 7:44 PM

What? Another liberal stating he knows three veterans who are still unable to come to a clear conclusion that killing people was their business.

But, they're working and haven't gone postal.


Here's a clue YTL, who knows three vets whose lifes are wrecked. Many vets were ruined before they went into the service.

But, I'll give you a hint to tell them the next time they are being "wrecked" in your presence. Tell them, if they only weren't exposed to Christian values and morals, they wouldn't be having a wrecked day, or life.

Or, OTOH, they might be wrecked from being unable to overcome their feeling of being ashamed that they let their buddy down when he most needed him.


But, here's my story of vets. Met a vet from Korea, and he was doing mighty fine. No problems what so ever. He simply stated a fact that he, and his machine gun crew, always shot low to cripple those numerous NK's coming at them. Sounds good to me, how about you YTL? Takes more men out of the fray, one or two NK's, to pick up his buddy, and his buddy who is needing extensive hospitalization.


Or, another vet, who I grew up with, and ended up in Khan San, was a drunk before he went in, and was a drunk after he came back. Now, that's not to say he wasn't successful, since he owned several "hamburger joints", but he sold them since they were interfering with his drinkin'. Good guy to know, even if he was wrecked before his service as a Marine.


I got more you stories for ya, you faker YTL.

And I'm calling you a faker unless you reply and tell us some "war stories" that they confided in you YTL,(which I doubt they did) about those three vets you know who are "wrecked."

Now, about that other friend, and his story of shooting those big tall Mongolians, who wouldn't drop after he unloaded his M1 clip on them.


Come on YTL, I'll swap stories with ya all day long. For each "wrecked vet story" you post, I'll post a story of a combat vet who has no problems what soo ever.

Posted by: yllas at April 8, 2009 9:26 PM


BTW, you big faker YTL.

Since you might know some of those abortion doctors, how many of them are combat vets? Many corpsman went on to be doctors, especially ww2 corpsman.

Crickets!!!

Posted by: yllas at April 8, 2009 9:29 PM


BTW anon, I've had postural hypotension since I can remember and have fainted several times since childhood. Would you assume I'm a cocaine abuser with depleted dopamine?

Posted by: Mary at April 8, 2009 3:57 PM

Well, let's see, with PK, your BP can fly up to 300/200, and beyond, while sleeping or being in the supine position. Upon rising, your BP can drop to 100/40, with PK.

Is that your problem Mary? Well, if it isn't your really blowing smoke about some problem you have, which has nothing to do with my postulate that cocaine has a large influence on "Kid PK".

Do you freeze entering doorways, Mary?

Here's one for ya Mary. Most heart attacks occur upon rising in the morning. Take a guess why Mary.

When was the last time they checked your BP while you were sleeping Mary?

Second, I'm saying we do not know for certain what caused Fox's PD and we can only make assumptions. I was pointing out there is early onset PD.

That's right Mary, you don't know jack. You don't know Fox,, but we do know he was a delightful user of dopamine reuptake inhibitors.

And I'm stating that cocaine use, dramatically increases a person getting what is now being named Parkinson's, but may be given a "different name", upon the study of dopamine reuptake inhibitors amongst young adults. Much less the millions of idiots using MOA inhibitors while using a reuptake inhibitor of dopamine.


Either way, I stand by my statement.

Besides, Fox's use of street dopamine, was surely adulterated with residual acetone, mek, and hydrocloric acid, which we all know might just be another reason for a person destroying his substantia nigra.


The most common solvents detected in cocaine samples were toluene, acetone, diethylether, MEK and methylene chloride. Forensic Science International.


Hydrocarbon exposure and Parkinson’s disease
G. Pezzoli, MD, M. Canesi, MD, A. Antonini, MD, A. Righini, MD, L. Perbellini, MD, M. Barichella, MD, C. B. Mariani, MD, F. Tenconi, MD, S. Tesei, MD, A. Zecchinelli, MD and K. L. Leenders, MD


RESULTS: Exposed patients were younger (61.0 ± 9.4 versus 64.7 ± 9.4 years, p = 0.002), predominantly male (76.4% versus 45.2%, p = 0.0001), less educated (8.4 ± 4.2 versus 10.1 ± 4.4 years, p = 0.0001), and younger at onset of disease (55.2 ± 9.8 versus 58.6 ± 10 years, p = 0.014). Exposure to hydrocarbon solvents directly correlated to disease severity (r = 0.311) and inversely correlated to latency period (r = -0.252). Nine blue-collar occupations accounted for 91.1% of exposures.


CONCLUSIONS: Occupations involving the use of hydrocarbon solvents are a risk factor for earlier onset of symptoms of PD and more severe disease throughout its course. Hydrocarbon solvents may be involved in the etiopathogenesis of PD, which does not have a major genetic component.

Posted by: yllas at April 8, 2009 10:23 PM


yllas,

I think you need a good night's rest.

Posted by: Mary at April 8, 2009 10:26 PM


Adult stem cells have NOT done great things for people with Parkinson's disease. There is no cure of any kind. Right DBS brain surgery is the most advanced treatment. I've had two.

Human blastocysts are microscopic undifferentiated cells, not fetuses or human beings. This is not dependent upon my opinion.

Posted by: Rayilyn Brown at April 8, 2009 10:41 PM


Mary.

You lose. You don't know jack. But, it's fun reading your post that bites on every study about abortion, BC, cancer connections, and all the evils of abortion.

Posted by: yllas at April 8, 2009 10:43 PM


Rayilyn, I'll point this out, not so much for you, but rather for the two or three newcomers to this site who may not yet realize that you're completely full of crap. The highly successful treatment of Dennis Turner with the use of adult stem cells has recently been peer-reviewed, taking away yet another potential for quibble from the ESCR lobby. Then, of course, there was similar success enjoyed by patient Andrew Kisana. Of course, don't expect this to be acknowledged by those with a pro-ESCR ulterior motive, but then again that's what the rest of us are here for. Faced with a mountain of scientific evidence that human embryos are human beings, some would rather pretend this is a religious issue.

Posted by: bmmg39 at April 8, 2009 11:11 PM


YLT: "I think most soldiers would prefer to live without the PTSD, shrapnel and other damage inflicted upon them. I've got 3 supervisors at work who fought in various wars, and it wrecked their lives. How many wars have you fought in? Or do you just play video-games?"

You are the one who called them "so-called heroes." Care to explain what the suffering of soldiers has to do with a defense of your insult to them?

Posted by: Oliver at April 9, 2009 12:56 AM


Good Morning Railyn,

I'm afraid the hopes and fears of people such as yourself have been cruelly exploited time and again by abortion advocates. In an effort to get RU486 into the country it was promoted as a form of miracle treatment for various disorders. Fetal tissue transplants, then ESCs were promoted as miracle cures. Tragically, fetal tissue transplants only intensified the symptoms of one group of PD patients, rendering them more severely debilitated than they were in the first place.
I hope Dr.Oz has offered you real hope and treatment and I wish you only the best.
What advocates of RU 486, fetal tissue transplants, and ESCs have done to you and others in your circumstances is beyond forgivable.

Posted by: Mary at April 9, 2009 8:13 AM


YLT: "I think most soldiers would prefer to live without the PTSD, shrapnel and other damage inflicted upon them. I've got 3 supervisors at work who fought in various wars, and it wrecked their lives. How many wars have you fought in? Or do you just play video-games?"

You are the one who called them "so-called heroes." Care to explain what the suffering of soldiers has to do with a defense of your insult to them?


Posted by: Oliver at April 9, 2009 12:56 AM


Just because you fight\die in the armed forces doesn't make you a hero. Your logic makes the people at Abu Garab torture facility heroes. Heck, your logic makes the Taliban heroes. I don't have time for nationalism or American Exceptionalism... its a lame and weak defense for the indefensible.

Posted by: Yo La tengo at April 16, 2009 10:16 PM


Posted by: yllas at April 8, 2009 9:26 PM

if you believe so much in the war, why are you not fighting? Why is your significant other, your sons or your daughters not in combat? Seriously, I've put some action behind my peace-talk. All you do is stomp around and call yourself a supporter of the troops. So much arm-chair bravado really must be taxing.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at April 16, 2009 10:21 PM