CBR: Abortion no longer trivialized in South Bend

nd photo jesus.jpg
The Center for Bio-Ethical Reform Midwest reported in a press release today it is completing Phase I of its Obama Awareness Campaign in, around, and over the Notre Dame campus in South Bend, IN:

[O]ne thing is for sure, abortion is being made real to UND students, faculty, alumni, and trustees.... After several days of exposing the population of South Bend and UND to CBR's billboard trucks, we sent in for reinforcements to enhance our outreach in the form of a tow banner airplane. The message that abortion is an act of violence is being delivered to Notre Dame. But we have just begun!...

This is true. Someone asked me on a radio interview yesterday what I thought the long-term impact on ND would be, and I said at the very least students and faculty will get an education on the abortion issue they will never forget.

This is also affording the pro-life community an opportunity to continue to educate the American public about abortion, since this issue has garnered national attention. The controversy even made it into President Abortion's press conference 2 days ago.

nd photo south bend.jpg

CBR also reported, "We are burning a lot of truck and plane fuel and need help funding the project."

Please donate generously. CBR wrote that a gift of $260 would fund one CBR billboard truck for an entire day at ND. $350 would fund an aerial billboard towed over the closed, private campus for 1 hr.

You can snail mail checks to: CBR, PO Box 360503, Columbus, OH 43236

You can donate online here

See more recently taken aerial and ground photos taken at ND here.

CBR plans to launch Phase II on May 4. I have a call in to CBR to find out exactly what that will entail. UPDATE, 11:05a: Phase II will include 4x8 handheld versions of the signs in a ground picket.

Note there is a caravan of 2 trucks in the following photo...

nd photo nd.jpg

[Top photo courtesy of the Associated Press]


Comments:

Hey, maybe we should drop leaflets, too!

Like what the allies did during WW II for enemy-occupied territories just before Liberation. A chance for the enemy to give up and surrender.

hmmm...ND is definitely "enemy-occupied" right now and is ripe for "liberation".

Posted by: RSD at May 1, 2009 11:07 AM


If this isn't the front line of battle I don't know what is. Thanks for posting this and supporting this, Jill!

I really wish there were another way but there is no other at this point. Look at the pathetic approach of mainstream TV preachers thru the years. They are proud to let you know they will have no part in such tactics as CBR uses! (Billy Graham, Robert Schuller, Joel Osteen and Rick Warren)

And what has that produced?.... Notre Dame, Georgetown, 52% of Catholic vote going for Obama... Presbyterians and Methodists and Episcopals much worse...? Go CBR!

Posted by: Rick at May 1, 2009 11:24 AM


Although this method of protest is allowing for some unquestionably powerful photo-ops I feel that it will ultimately fail to convince the school or many of its students to change their views on abortion but will simply work to entrench people in their positions.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 11:37 AM


This is the only way. We must relentlessly pound, pound, pound the truth.

I absolutely love the back of the one truck showing Hussein, "I'm a devout Christian."

The look on his face is hysterical. It's very strange though. It makes me want to belly laugh at its preposterousness and at the same time puke because he's so revolting.

Posted by: Ed at May 1, 2009 12:07 PM


So, what do you suggest? A ban on abortion?

Posted by: Hal at May 1, 2009 12:19 PM


Hal,
Yes - exactly that.

Abortion hurts women and kills a little person.

Posted by: Dave at May 1, 2009 12:28 PM


You got it Hal, you got it!

Just like in the Dominican Republic.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/jul/06072704.html

Posted by: Ed at May 1, 2009 12:34 PM


Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Posted by: Hal at May 1, 2009 12:35 PM


Although I commend your determination in advocating your beliefs would it not be better served to reach for small achievable goals which would serve to limit abortions while also being palatable to the fence-sitter, ala the Civil Rights Movement & Women's Rights Movement.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 12:37 PM


Hal,
How is your life better because of abortion?

* * * *

"Although this method of protest is allowing for some unquestionably powerful photo-ops I feel that it will ultimately fail to convince the school or many of its students to change their views on abortion but will simply work to entrench people in their positions."
Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 11:37 AM

Spoken like a true pro-choicer. If all of this going on at ND saves ONE child's life it will have been worth it. That's how valuable a human life is.

I know that deep in their hearts, people know that abortion is wrong, and that to support it is immoral. They are afraid to take a stand. Only the most hardened of hearts can say legal abortion is necessary. Notre Dame should already know better.I will keep them in my prayers.


Posted by: Janet at May 1, 2009 12:41 PM


Carlo, we have been implementing small achievable goals for decades. We will continue to do so, but they will not stop abortion. Only a total ban on abortion coupled with a personhood ammendment will really halt abortion in this country. Yes, we should continue to work where we can to save as many lives as possible within the current legal framework, but we should be striving to completely end abortion.

Posted by: Lauren at May 1, 2009 12:43 PM


"Hal,
How is your life better because of abortion?"

How is your life worse?

Posted by: Hal at May 1, 2009 12:46 PM


Carlo,
Nope, it's all or nothing. The "fence sitters" should get of their butts and choose a side.

Posted by: Janet at May 1, 2009 12:46 PM


Hal, that doesn't answer my question. I haven't had one.

Posted by: Janet at May 1, 2009 12:47 PM


I would have to disagree with your statement about the implementing of these small achievable goals, wouldn't greater emphasis on effective birth control (an issue that the majority of the American public has supported for a long period of time) have a greater effect on reducing the number of abortions than placing the most emphasis on overturning Roe v. Wade et. al. which is a nearly impossible task.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 12:48 PM


OK, How's my life worse? I'm sad for you because of what you can never get back. I'm sad for YOU.

Posted by: Janet at May 1, 2009 12:50 PM


By going for the all or nothing approach it is very possible that you are driving people away from the pro-life camp instead of slowly pulling them into your camp.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 12:51 PM


Hal, that doesn't answer my question. I haven't had one.
Posted by: Janet at May 1, 2009 12:47 PM

that's right, and you don't have to have one. It's a free country. Let's not interfere with people who do want to have one.

Posted by: Hal at May 1, 2009 12:51 PM


Sorry I accidentally posted under Janet's name, mods please remedy that post

Posted by: Calro at May 1, 2009 12:51 PM


Carlo, For a second there, I thought there was another Janet posting.

Posted by: Janet at May 1, 2009 12:56 PM


Sorry again for that I meant to type Janet,[rest of post]

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 12:57 PM


Carlo, the sad truth is that birth control isn't all that effective at a population level. Plan B is useless at a population level. It's a myth that birth control will solve the crisis of abortion.

Posted by: Lauren at May 1, 2009 1:03 PM


I am not saying that it would solve the problem of abortion but for all of its flaws and fail/improper use rates, it still nonetheless prevents many pregnancies. I am not arguing though that PP or its ilk should be promoted with these programs as they are without question suspect at best/criminal at worst. But I do feel that this approach would gain adherents to the pro-life community while lowering the number of abortions.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 1:06 PM


Carlo, there are lots of organizations that support birth control within the pro-life community. If someone is looking for a wide tent, it's there. However, I personally think that contraception is part of the problem, not the solution. The mentality of children as a failure rate has led to the devaluing of human life.

Posted by: Lauren at May 1, 2009 1:09 PM


But it is that very thinking that hinders the pro-life movement, by constantly going for the grand slam of illegalizing abortion you are limiting the reach of your message and driving potential supporters into the other camp. With today's events especially (Souter Retirement) it is clear that hitting the proverbial grand slam is more and more unlikely with a likely 3 Young Obama-nominated Justices being added to the SCOTUS.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 1:12 PM


I don't know why but I find it humorous when those that are PC try to "help" us find a better approach.

:)

Posted by: Carla at May 1, 2009 1:19 PM


Carlo, while I agree that we shouldn't do things that will push people away from our message, I also think we need to look at the root cause of abortion, not just put a band-aid over the problem.

We need to attack abortion directly. I don't think the answer to ending abortion lies in throwing pills at the problem. It never has. It may win some converts, but it won't prevent substantial abortions nor will it change the heart of our nation back twoards life.

Posted by: Lauren at May 1, 2009 1:21 PM


Abortion is genocide!

It is wrong!

The killing must stop!

Posted by: Ed at May 1, 2009 1:29 PM


In regards to Carla's statement the reason why I posted a suggestion to find a better way is that I want to be pro-life. I personally find abortion abhorrent and if presented with a situation where I had a say in the matter I would push whole heartedly to convince the person to not have an abortion. With that said, whenever I start to lean towards supporting the pro-life movement I can't get over the tactics that are used which I find crass and the people involved who come off as ***holes. If the community would avoid these problems and keep the rhetorical highground then they would have many more members and would be able to achieve much more much faster.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 1:31 PM


Hal, that doesn't answer my question. I haven't had one.
Posted by: Janet at May 1, 2009 12:47 PM

that's right, and you don't have to have one. It's a free country. Let's not interfere with people who do want to have one.
Posted by: Hal at May 1, 2009 12:51 PM
****************************************
We live in a free country with limits.

I don't have to do meth or heroin, either, but I sure as heck would attempt to interfere with someone who wanted to destroy themselves that way. Do they *think* they're destroying themselves? I don't believe they even consider it. They just don't care. It's all about the high for them, the feeling, the "freedom from care" that they believe it brings to them.
Oh, and btw, they should really outlaw those horrendously creepy "METH" billboards and commercials across the country. I mean, they're offensive to meth users and my CHILDREN see those people looking like corpses every time we pass them! It's traumatizing. (Just like those "faked" abortion photos that PCers love to scream about, huh?) How dare we try to discourage people from doing meth in such a graphic and offensive manner!

Seat belts save lives, but if I want to fly through my windshield in an accident, no one should try and stop me! How dare those legislators infringe on my bodily right, even when it clearly affects only ME?

How dare anyone tell me not to drive drunk? I mean, it's MY CAR, and it's MY BODY. If I want to risk other human life in the process, so what? It's what I want that's important...MY feelings.

Not interfering with someone who wants to "have one," Hal, is so dishonest that even you know it. If something will, without a doubt, bring immediate death to another human being, it is clearly wrong.

Your PC argument, which is against science, states that a fetus isn't a "person." You use the term "person" in the legal sense because you have to be intellectually dishonest about it.

A fetus is a human child, a human being. Using bodily autonomy arguments and continually changing what we call "it" really doesn't matter at all. "It" is still a human life.

Why aren't you offended by seat belt laws, Hal? Are you posting on anti-seat belt message boards? What about the pro-drunk driving freedom message boards?

We know you'd like to see marijuana legalized, but what about something like heroin, something so addictive that rarely is ANYONE successfully treated?

Or is it just THIS, Hal? Is it just abortion, the right to take innocent human life at will, because it happens to be barely developed enough that your conscience will allow it? Is it because it happens to be undesirable and inside the body of someone else, though that makes it no less of a human being (hello, basic biology)?

Sorry for the rant, but it seems like a very large elephant of a double standard to me.

Posted by: Kel at May 1, 2009 1:35 PM


Hal, consider these words: "Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

(Note: "Man" is used in the collective sense.)

Posted by: Anonymous at May 1, 2009 1:36 PM


Not interfering with someone who wants to "have one," Hal, is so dishonest that even you know it. If something will, without a doubt, bring immediate death to another human being, it is clearly wrong.
*********************************

Note: This, with the exception of a circumstance such as tubal pregnancy, when both lives will be lost if no treatment is rendered.

Posted by: Kel at May 1, 2009 1:39 PM


Carlo, very few pro-lifers use graphic imagry. The vast majority work in crisis pregnancy centers, lovingly sidewalk counsel, and help women in need. You are looking to see the the bad.

Posted by: Lauren at May 1, 2009 1:59 PM


Lauren, I guess it is the squeaky wheel that gets the attention. I may not notice sidewalk counselors when I pass by a PP center but I sure as H*** notice the flying banners, billboard/billboard trucks, and protesters. I will commend those who work in the community and do that tremendous work without being a*******.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 2:05 PM


Carlo, you seem to think that the only reason pro-lifers show graphic images is to be jerks. That couldn't be further from the truth. The reason graphic images are shown is to show people the truth about abortion. Planned Parenthood tells people that it's just "tissue."

Posted by: Lauren at May 1, 2009 2:19 PM


Let's not get into an argument comparing those who utilize the in my opinion unattractive methods of advocacy and PP. In no way would I advocate for PP as my opinion of them is stated above.

Again, while i understand the reasoning for the more ardent advocacy methods and don't think they do it simply to be "jerks", I nonetheless find them less convincing and less effective methods that take energy away from more effective pro-life methods and also drive away people who could be brought into the fold.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 2:26 PM


Carlo, with all due respect, you called these pro-lifers a**holes. Disagreeing with tactics is one thing, but don't pretend that you're being charitable with your portrayal.

I personally don't really like the graphic images. I think people tend to just harden their hearts because they don't want to face the truth. That said, I know that they have been effective at reaching some who honestly did not know what abortion really looked like. I think that fetal models and photos of healthy unborn children serve the purpose to enlighten us to the humanity of the unborn, without the negatives.

But there are some who would not turn from abortion except by seeing it for all of its horror.

Regardless, it is certainly not an issue of a bunch of jerks setting around thinking how they can best be jerks.

Posted by: Lauren at May 1, 2009 2:40 PM


Carlo,
If you want to be pro-life. Do it. So what if there are a few jerks. Jerks are everywhere. Don't make excuses. So there! (I'll get off my soap box now.)

Posted by: Janet at May 1, 2009 2:46 PM


Lauren, like i said before my issue is with these tactics. I feel they are ineffective when compared to more constructive methods (like those you mentioned) and as you said often simply harden the hearts and drive otherwise friendly people away from the movement. I don't feel we really disagree on substance so much as terminology.

Janet, I am personally pro-life but due to disagreement with the tactics and finding the personalities of many pro-life advocates unattractive I can not support the movement with my time or money.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 2:57 PM


"Hal,
How is your life better because of abortion?"

How is your life worse?

Posted by: Hal at May 1, 2009 12:46 PM

It isn't worse. But hey, it's not about me.

People dying of AIDS in Africa doesn't make my life any worse, but I still send money to help them. It's not about me.


Posted by: hippie at May 1, 2009 3:01 PM


"Hal,
How is your life better because of abortion?"

Still no answer. I can see how it would be a difficult question. No need to answer.

Posted by: Janet at May 1, 2009 3:10 PM


Carlo, again there are many pro-life groups outside of Operation Rescute.

Try Feminists for Life, Democrats for Life, Atheists for Life, Gays and Lesbians for Life, Libertarians for Life ect.

If you are opposed to abortion, there is a place for you within the pro-life movement.

If you'd like to help support crisis pregancy centers, you can join my project @ http://purpleenvelopeproject.blogspot.com

You don't havfe to love the use of graphic images to be against abortion, I just ask that you realize that the people who do use these images are coming from a place of love for those who have been killed, not malice.

Posted by: Lauren at May 1, 2009 3:16 PM


Lauren, I understand that most of these people are coming from the right place and I commend them for that and thank you for pointing out those groups who advocate with methods I find unattractive. In the end I think I was just venting at what I viewed as misdirection of resources.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 3:18 PM


Carlo, I understand that. I think we should be mindful about how we use our resources and how to best advocate for the unborn. I'm glad that we could come to an understanding. I do encourage you to look into some of the alternative pro-life groups. There are so many out there and they are all doing things to help. I especially like Feminists for Life because they focus on trying to help college women who are facing an unplanned pregnancy.

Posted by: Lauren at May 1, 2009 3:25 PM


"He who destroys a life destroys the whole world; he who saves a life, saves the world entire.


The Talmud
Source: Talmud Sanhedrin 37:11


Posted by: RSD at May 1, 2009 3:46 PM


With that said, whenever I start to lean towards supporting the pro-life movement I can't get over the tactics that are used which I find crass and the people involved who come off as ***holes.

so what you are saying Carlos is that you are not prolife because of the strategy used by prolifers?
Are you kidding? Stop being so disingenuous.
Either you believe abortion is wrong or you don't. Which is it?

Posted by: angel at May 1, 2009 4:06 PM


Angel, to clarify I am personally pro-life but due to the tactics and personalities of many in the pro-life community I do not support the movement with time or money.

Posted by: Carlo at May 1, 2009 4:08 PM


Carlo, why not start your own project to end abortion? You can use your own tactics and your own personality. The pro-life movement is not a single entitiy. It is several groups of people working for the same goal in whichever way they feel is best. You make it sound like we send in money to Big Pro-Life as though it is a political party.

Posted by: Lauren at May 1, 2009 4:19 PM


Carlo, not all prolifers behave like Terry Randall.

However, I think many prolifers are very frustrated because the playing field is not level. And there are many many people in government who for their own political expediency have promoted abortion.

Simply not enough people (including Catholic bishops and priests) have done even a small amount to prevent the abortion catastrophe we now are experiencing. I think our parents generation sat around thinking "well, I would NEVER have an abortion. So why should I care?"
This apathy is what has helped emplace abortion, infanticide and euthanasia.
I don't know how many bishops there are in the US but so far 56 bishops have spoken out against Notre Dame. How many have not?

How many US politicians have been receiving Holy
Communion repeatedly despite public and often very vocal support of abortion and NOT been called to task for their sins.

Each person brings to the prolife movement his/her special gifts. You should not deny the prolife movement the special gifts you alone have! :)

Posted by: angel at May 1, 2009 4:20 PM


For Carlo:

The problem with "birth control" is that most forms of birth control actually carry the potential of killing babies. The IUD and every form of hormonal birth control work at least in part by preventing the blastocyst (tiny human being) from implanting in his or her mother's womb. And what's worse, this information is not made widely known, so many people--myself included--have been convinced to go on the pill thinking it is only a contraceptive, when actually it can be an abortifacient.

Also, the use of birth control can cause more abortions, because people who might have otherwise abstained have sex thinking that they are "protected," when in reality no birth control is foolproof. Most people who use a condom throughout their reproductive lives would end up parents. So when the "safe sex" turns out not to be as safe as they thought, they try to fix the problem. This doesn't mean that non-abortive birth control should be illegal, but it does mean that I wouldn't encourage using safe sex over abstaining if one does not want children. And frankly, I don't see what's so awful about having children anyway.

And as far as common-sense areas we all agree on--I don't think it was pro-choicers pushing regulations against delivering a baby halfway, shoving scissors in the back of her skull, and sucking her brains out with a vacuum. And it wasn't pro-choicers that wanted to make sure that if abortion accidentally produced a living, breathing, viable baby instead of a tiny, bloody, corpse, that baby wouldn't be tied in a biohazard bag and left in a closet until he stopped crying.

If those aren't commonsense regulations that everyone can agree with, I don't think the fault lies in the pro-life camp.

Posted by: YCW at May 2, 2009 5:51 AM


For Hal:

How my life would be better if abortion were illegal:
Adoption would probably be easier. I might have another child.

I might have had doctors that actually believed me and cared when I said I was having early miscarriages. They might have even done the tiny bit of research necessary to give me a simple pill that could give my children a much better chance of survival. And I might have a lot more children.

I wouldn't spend so much time on this site, which probably wouldn't exist.

I wouldn't live every day with the knowledge that the country I live in is killing millions of children each year.

I wouldn't have to deal with people that think that the children I lost weren't people and never had any rights, that they weren't real children, and there's something wrong with me if I miss them and want them back.

Hal, you can't be tolerant of everyone. I find the tolerance of the killing of children older than the children I have lost deeply offensive. And it isn't too tolerant toward the children who die either.

Posted by: YCW at May 2, 2009 5:58 AM


Oh, Hal..."how is your life worse because of abortion?"...You don't even know what it is like...you have NO INKLING of how legal abortion is torture to a woman-you just cannot comprehend.

My life is/was worse because when I got pregnant, my boyfriend wanted me to get an abortion, and being the oldest of 6 kids in my family, I understood that a pregnancy wasn't just discomfort and a swollen belly. I understood that at the typical end of a pregnancy, my mother brought home one of my new brothers or sisters, and they were precious beyond anything else in this world. And I knew that at the end of a pregnancy caused by abortion, that precious life was left to rot in the trash, and LIKE HELL was I going to do that to my daughter. And I love her father so much, and he wanted me to do this horrible thing, because NOBODY ever told him it was wrong. He was an only child, he never had the chance to see with his own eyes that it was wrong. And the law just told him it was right, and it was ok. And it was SO HARD to stay with him...and even though he feels so much differently now, sometimes when I think back to that, and sometimes when I look at our now 6 year old daughter that people were once trying to reduce to "...just a clump of cells...choice" it hurts and angers me. That is PAIN, Hal, and be glad it only affects people with scruples.

"...I think our parents generation sat around thinking "well, I would NEVER have an abortion. So why should I care?"
This apathy is what has helped emplace abortion, infanticide and euthanasia."

That sums it up perfectly. You know...recently I finally came out to my husband's mother (who is/was/whatever pro-choice), who loves our little daughter/her grandchild beyond measure, while we were debating the issue one day, it finally came out that her son had wanted me to get an abortion. The shock she displayed rather took me aback...How can people spout "choice! It's just a choice!", then be surprised when someone they know, love, or care about THINKS THAT IT IS JUST A CHOICE? Every degree of the pain that legalized abortion causes is just an extension of not initially thinking about the reprocussions of one's actions.

Posted by: xalisae at May 2, 2009 11:02 PM


xalisae,

Excellent post. I'm so sorry you had to deal with all that and glad all turned out for the best.

"He was an only child, he never had the chance to see with his own eyes that it was wrong."

This brings these questions to mind. What percentage of "only-children" are pro-abortion? Did their experience of having no siblings make a difference in their outlook on abortion?

Posted by: Janet at May 3, 2009 10:23 PM


On a beautiful mother's day in Niles MI. I invited family over, had the kids outside, and we BBQ'd the day away. Enjoying our Sunday, I noticed a plane flying low about to go right over our house. I alerted my 3 year old, 6 year old, and 9 year old girls to check out the plane flying over head. Considering that my 3 year old gets excited seeing airplanes, I saw it as a good idea to call it to her attention.

As the plane cleared the trees, I noticed the sign it was pulling and was completely and utterly disgusted. And I was obviously offended all to hell that my kids were forced to see that crap. And it is what it is....CRAP.

CBR totally erased the point they were trying to prove by subjecting my children to that type of filth. Instead of "open dialog" that they thought they were promoting...I instead had to explain to my 9 year old that no matter what. People who want you to believe the way that you do, will try to frighten you, offend you, and trick you into believing what they believe.

If that's the point that you all are supporting. Then fine.

If if you think, that a parent...who's kids were just subjected to that type of heinous advertising about an issue that may be important to you...but not to a child....will suddenly change them over to "your side". Then you are blindly WRONG. And more than that....STUPID.

You're all idiots to think "trumpeting" in someones ear is the only way to prove your point. It's just the opposite.

This issue is beyond abortion now. When you drag my kids into it...you make it bad for your cause. Period.

Posted by: Roger at May 13, 2009 9:20 AM


What's so terrible about it? It's just medical waste, right?

My daughter will be 7 in August. I wouldn't be at such a loss if this had happened to us, seeing as how I've already explained to her what abortion is and what it does. We would be saddened by the visual, just as we are by the idea itself, but if you have such a problem with this, and it is so outrageous to you, perhaps you should reconsider your outlook, and explain this situation to your kids properly, so that one day, hopefully NO ONE (children and adults alike) will ever HAVE to be reminded of what abortion is and what it does, because it won't exist in this form any longer.

If abortion really is just some benign medical procedure, as the pro-choice side insists, I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

In late middle school/jr. high, I used to sit and watch The Operation on TLC while I ate my Saturday morning pancakes with strawberry jam. I never had any problems. Now why do you suppose the situation would be any different if it was abortion footage?

Posted by: xalisae at May 14, 2009 1:34 AM


So I suppose you also subject your children to pictures of dead soldiers in Iraq too? Or how about a picture of a priest molesting a young child? Since your so much more socially conscience then I am....why don't you show me EXACTLY what I should be showing MY OWN CHILDREN.

I have no problem with what you deem important. As in the US, you SHOULD have no problem with mine. When it passes over my house, in front of my children...THAT I CHOSE TO KEEP MIND YOU!....I'm supposed to just suck it up and take the moral teachings that were just forced into my Sunday afternoon?

I'll once again say it...and your yet to answer. How in the hell do you think offending someone is going to change them to believe the way that you do?

Posted by: Roger at May 14, 2009 9:08 AM


I find it laughable that some Pro Lifers see a Pro Choicer's belief as a bad habit. Like smoking.

You show a nasty lung to someone to encourage them to kick the habit. So you justify showing a bloody fetus in the same fashion.

It's not a bad habit. It's a person's belief. And last I knew, there should only be one entity who supposedly should be guiding that.

It does nothing to your cause. Nothing at all.

Posted by: Roger at May 14, 2009 9:18 AM


Roger, I'm glad the pictures have made you angry. At least they made you feel something. If your sensibilities were offended, then they're still in tact.

You should be offended by abortion itself and not merely by the fact of having to view a photo of the result of an abortion. I get angry when I see photos of the Nazi concentration camps. I get angry when I see children dying as a result of war. But I don't turn away.

So sorry that the plight of millions of dead babies had to go and ruin your barbecue. They're DEAD, Roger. DEAD. Have some perspective.

Posted by: Kel at May 14, 2009 9:24 AM


Like I said before this is beyond abortion now with me. When it crosses to my 3 year old's point of view, it offends me. The images themselves, really...I've seen much much worse and it would take a whole hell of a lot more to offend my sensibilities. But your bringing your cause to my back yard....to my children.

And you justify it by saying, that I SHOULD be teaching my children about these horrors. Who do you think you are?

How about this. F#ck you, and the perspective that you THINK I should have.

F#CK the dead babies your trying to "save". You're cause is beyond me...and there's no amount of moral highness you can take over me to change that.

Look in the mirror before you try to change the world.

Posted by: Roger at May 14, 2009 9:43 AM


And BTW. Before the morality squad reprimands me. Yep, abortion is bad. It's certainly isn't pretty. I CHOSE to support my wife. And I CHOSE along with my wife to keep my children.

Because someone is pro-choice. You pro lifers make it that they are pro abortion. Hence, making you think that they have no clue of what abortion is.

When any logical person would look at the facts and know that no matter how illegal you make abortion. There will still be abortions going on. Rather than in a controlled clinic, there will be midwives aborting baby's in someone's bathroom. So why is it so unacceptable that a person would:

1) Respect the fact the a woman should be able to choose her own path in life.

2) Respect the fact that no matter how heinous it is, I'd rather someone get a safe abortion than an un safe abortion.

3) Other than preventing the murder that is abortion. How about focusing efforts on the cause instead of the effect. Like teen preganancy, abstinence education, birth control promotion. Any thing to keep people out of the situation where they feel they must make that choice between abortion or no abortion.

My whole point is basically, those tactics of flying dead fetuses so everyone can be shocked into believing what you believe do more harm than good.

Once again, show me where it's good to offend someone....or even better, subject their children to graphic images...to bring them over to your point of view.

You think making abortion illegal is going to stop the "murders"? Yeah right. Look how well that's happened with prostitution.

Posted by: Roger at May 14, 2009 10:05 AM


Wow, Roger. Thanks for the nice response. Would you like to curse at me some more? Does it make you feel better?

I never said you should teach your children about horrors in the world (though I'm sure they will learn about the Holocaust and wars, etc.). I said that if you were offended by the images of the photos, then at least your senses are in tact.

They made you angry enough to come to this site and cuss out a pro-lifer. It's just unfortunate that you have the attitude you do about millions of children who had no choice and no voice in this world.

I am glad you chose life for your children. I chose life for mine, too. The reason why we do this is because we believe abortion is a grave injustice to the voiceless. I'm sorry you don't care and don't want to understand. Many of us not only fight against the injustice of abortion, but against other injustices as well: homelessness, etc. And none of us like war and the toll it takes on human life, as many would like to believe. We are all called to attempt to right different injustices in this world. Perhaps your calling is different.

And if you were offended, it is because you chose to find offense. That's how it works.

No, abortion isn't pretty. That's why the pictures are shown. They are the truth of what happens to these children.

Posted by: Kel at May 14, 2009 11:29 AM