Notre Dame update 5/17, 2:15p EST

The big update from my end is Monica Miller and 6 pro-lifers got arrested in the parking lot of the Joyce Center where Obama is speaking.

065nd.jpg

We were this close to grads and families entering the Center...

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Before this I rode in a Center for Bio-Ethical Reform Truth Truck long enough to film footage of several miles of pro-life protesters. I'm uploading that to YouTube now, 8 minutes. It's going to take awhile.

We're late for Fr. Pavone's alternate service. More later.


Comments:

Tremendous applause greets Obama's remarks on abortion. "Open hearts, open minds"

Notre Dame, Father Jenkins, Obama, graduates and families, a class act.

Randall Terry and the circus-a jackass act.

Posted by: Bystander at May 17, 2009 2:26 PM


Anonymous,
Your comments are welcome, but the rules are not to post as anonymous.

Try again.

Posted by: carder at May 17, 2009 2:34 PM


Bystander,

Expain how you, Bystander, have expressed an "open heart, open mind" when it comes to this issue of abortion.

If memory serves me correctly, the bulk of your comments here are exceptionally prochoice.

And please provide proof that Obama has executed ANY legislation with regards to abortion that demonstrates his open-mindedness/heartedness.

Could it be a case of "openness for me, but not for thee."?

Posted by: carder at May 17, 2009 2:40 PM


From the text of pbho's commencement speeck at ND:

"As I considered the controversy surrounding my visit here, I was reminded of an encounter I had during my Senate campaign, one that I describe in a book I wrote called The Audacity of Hope. A few days after I won the Democratic nomination, I received an email from a doctor who told me that while he voted for me in the primary, he had a serious concern that might prevent him from voting for me in the general election. He described himself as a Christian who was strongly pro-life, but that's not what was preventing him from voting for me.


What bothered the doctor was an entry that my campaign staff had posted on my website - an entry that said

I would fight "right-wing ideologues who want to take away a woman's right to choose."

The doctor said that he had assumed I was a reasonable person, but that if I truly believed that every pro-life individual was simply an ideologue who wanted to inflict suffering on women, then I was not very reasonable. He wrote, "I do not ask at this point that you oppose abortion, only that you speak about this issue in fair-minded words."


Fair-minded words.

After I read the doctor's letter, I wrote back to him and thanked him.

I didn't change my position,

but I did tell my staff to change the

'words'

on my website.
---------------------------------------------------
Reminds of a fellow aboard a commercial airliner who's pilot had aborted the takeoff at the last possible second, and taxied back to the terminal. After about 15 minutes the pilot taxied the plane back to the runaway and they were airborne with no further disruptions.

When the stewardess came by, the fellow asked her what happened on the first takeoff attemp.

She said the pilot had an indication the airplane had faulty part.

The fellow said it must not have been too serious they replaced the part very quickly.

The stewardess replied, they did not replace part, they replaced the pilot.

Obama did not 'change' his position or even his staff, he just 'changed his words'.

This is an example of calculated, deliberated

D E C E P T I O N

And every man heard what he wanted to hear in his own language.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at May 17, 2009 2:43 PM


Tremendous applause greets Obama's remarks on abortion

That's to be expected when he's preaching to the choir, bystander, and when the ceremony is heavily scripted.

Maybe it was just my perception but I didn't think the prez looked like he was enjoying himself for much of the ceremony. Maybe the teleprompter was out of sync.

Posted by: Fed Up at May 17, 2009 2:49 PM


So anyways, they this little puke is on Fox, whats his name? Doug Kemic, saying Obama did not support late term abortion when he was Senator (Obama cleary voted to keep PBA legal). And liberal Chris Wallace is letting this piece of crap get away with murder.

Posted by: Jasper at May 17, 2009 2:51 PM


"Satan appears as an angel of light".

Bystander:

You pro-aborts are all liars, demonically possessed liars. We pro-lifers will not accept any thing less that the elimination of legalized abortion from out land. There is no room for compromise on this issue.

Obama is the worst kind of devil when He comes into God's arena and displays in all his evil glory the ability to twist and deceive.

Doug Kmiec is on Fox news right now as an Obama front man. How this guy could possibly conceive of himself as a Christina is beyond understanding.

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 2:52 PM


Fed Up: according to AmericanPapist: Obama looked very uncomfortable and there were on going protests within the hall where he spoke.
If you read the text very carefully, Obama revealed himself for EXACTLY who he is - a man who fully and unashamedly supports abortion.
According to the speech he is doing exactly what Cardinal George stated Obama always does: he tries to convince you that he really, really really does agree with you. But he doesn't.
According to the speech:
He altered his website not because he felt concerned about calling prolifers right-wing ideologues but because he wanted the votes.
He says he believes in a "sensible" conscience clause but what is Obama's definition of "sensible"?
He believes in preventing unwanted pregnancies by pouring on more condoms and pills?
This man is NOT going to change. He is NOT prolife.
Fr Jenkins, my heart goes out to you. You've been played and badly. And all so that you could say you gave the first black American Pres an honorary law degree. My God Father, does nothing matter to you?

Posted by: angel at May 17, 2009 2:57 PM


Oh how nice.

The parents of a child who has juvenile diabetes are willing to kill another child to save their own even when the research proves that there is no such cure with embryonic stem cells. You know this Obama, so why in God's name do you lie like this? There can only be one answer. YOU ARE EVIL.

Mr. Obama, your words turn people into "sons of hell".

I can't express enough how much I despise you for knowing the truth and then twisting it, leading people to believe your lies.

You are the Pied Piper of death.

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 2:59 PM


Call him what he is, Obama is a lying bastard.

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 3:03 PM


Angel 2:57PM

The most important thing to remember when you are dealing with a sociopath is...you are dealing with a sociopath.

These people are masters of the facade and deception. Obama's ability to convince people he agrees with them, and them with him, is just a display of this sociopathic trait which he has obviously mastered.

Another thing to remember about a sociopath. They never change. They are what they are and you overlook that at your peril.

Posted by: Mary at May 17, 2009 3:06 PM


HisMan, 2:59Pm 3:03PM

Obama is being the sociopath that he is.

Posted by: Mary at May 17, 2009 3:09 PM


Mary thank you. I have had intimate experience with sociopathy.
And you are quite right. They are masters of deception and they never ever change.

Posted by: angel at May 17, 2009 3:14 PM


Ditto Angel & HisMan,

It's a shame that this university has done such a horrible job educating these young men & women. They may have knowledge, but Notre Dame has utterly failed to teach them right from wrong.

Jenkins is holding this evil man up as an example and a leader to be followed.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, And prudent in their own sight! Is 5:20-21

They stand there and speak glowing words about each other while thousands of innocent babies are murdered every day on their watch.

They will be judged.

Posted by: Ed at May 17, 2009 3:16 PM


Mary:

It's called a reprobate mind. A mind incapable of repentance.

I can't tell you how dangerous Obama is to us, to our kids, to our country.

If you study how Adolf Hitler was able to deceive the masses of common German folk you will recognize some of the same traits in Obama. Mark my words, as Obama becomes more and more intoxicated by the ability to deceive he will fall to the temptation to seize more and more power. The only question that remains is how that power will affect each of us as individual citizens.

Those at Notre Dame who allowed this maniacal sociopath to pollute their inner sanctum will someday bow their heads in disgrace when they realize what a terrible mistake they made in letting him speak at their university, and for the minds that they allowed to become twisted by this evil man's ability twist.

I mean look...he's at A Catholic University talking about abortion and you have what I believe are Catholics in the crowd applauding him. Does this say anything to anyone?

And the pro-aborts love this. They are laughing at us as we sit here and try to expose what they know he does.

Well listen up you pro-abort murderers. There is a God in heaven and He will have the last word about this.

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 3:17 PM


what a disgusting mockery of a man, this deceitful Obama. This little worm that turns, twists, and contorts in order to look like what people want him to be to make themselves feel good about abandoning their ideals in exchange for a world without war (which will never exist), or free healthcare (which they're selling their souls to get, and by the way, they should be careful what they wish for...with people dying on waiting lists in Canada...is this really what we want?), or someone else to pay their mortgage (how much is that extra room you don't need, or that SUV you bought instead of a more economical compact wagon, how much are your status symbols really worth?) I'm absolutely disgusted.

Posted by: xalisae at May 17, 2009 3:18 PM


angel, I agree with you that PBHO was in true proabort form today. The only difference was his need to transform the mirage he presents (this time as a loyal Christian) to his audience. I am so embarrassed for Fr J and ND that I can't even put words on it.

Posted by: Fed Up at May 17, 2009 3:18 PM


It's a shame that this university has done such a horrible job educating these young men & women. They may have knowledge, but Notre Dame has utterly failed to teach them right from wrong.

No Ed. You are very wrong here. They are suppose to be a Catholic institution of higher learning. To me this should mean that students receive a higher education infused with Catholicism.
What has failed here, is that Notre Dame, has failed to accomplish this.

If they had, these young people would recognize evil. They would also recognize the attempt to pass something very evil (murder) off as something benign. That they cannot, is the true tragedy here.

Posted by: angel at May 17, 2009 3:25 PM


also complicit in this lack of understanding of evil are the parents of these students, many of whom do not practice the faith well themselves, often shedding doctrine like molting snakes.
Priests and bishops who watered down the teachings of the Catholic church to be friendly and "compassionate".
And the teachers in Catholic schools who also do not believe/practice the true faith.

Funny my pastor said today that "many Catholics discard certain teachings on sexuality and marriage and still tell themselves they are good catholic." He said "they are catholic, just not good catholics!"
So true.

Posted by: angel at May 17, 2009 3:29 PM


Hi HisMan 3:17PM

He is incapable of repentence because he has no conscience.

In regard to the rise of Hitler we often wonder how the German people could so blindly follow this little maniac. Now I see it in my own country. We have to remember Hitler didn't shoot his way into power, he had the support of a majority of Germans.

I spoke with a Cuban woman who immigrated to the US with her parents to escape Castro's Cuba. She is thankful her parents are no longer alive to see what is happening in the country they sought freedom in.

Posted by: Mary at May 17, 2009 3:29 PM


How sad, Mary. I'm becoming ashamed to be an American.

Posted by: xalisae at May 17, 2009 3:31 PM


Please will some Catholics tell me where the Pope was on this issue of Obama speaking at Notre Dame?

Was he silent? If he was silent, why was he silent? If he spoke up then why wasn't he listened to?

As the Vicar of Christ did he not have a responsibility to protect Christ's reputation? As the head Shepherd over the flock why didn't he take steps to protect the flock?

What happened today tells me one thing. The Catholic Church is in big trouble. Now I don't mean individual Catholics who are totally sold out to Christ, I'm talking about Catholic leadership that is directly responsible to God for shepherding the flock.

What Catholic leadership did today was to let the wolves inside the pen. These are not good shepherds, these are cannibals who would allow their young to be eaten.

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 3:32 PM


HisMan, I'll be brief because I have to go. More than 70 cardinals and bishops with authority to act on behalf of the Church denounced the decision by ND. These men are designated by the Holy Father, as you know, to govern the Church here and put forth a document Bobby referenced on another thread. ND chose not to obey the authority of the Bishops. The Church doesn't have the legal authority to block the action of ND's board of trustees, HisMan, as much as I wish it did.

Posted by: Fed Up at May 17, 2009 3:37 PM


Bystander:

Notre Dame, Father Jenkins, Obama, graduates and families, a class act.

WHITED SEPULCHRES

Meaning:

Persons who are inwardly evil but outwardly profess to be virtuous.

Obviously the man has a seared conscience. He has a wife who also has a seared conscience who solicited funds for her husband on the backs of babies who have sharp instruments deliberately jabbed in their little heads so their brains can be sucked out and thus delivered "whole" but dead.

Ironic that today's gospel was John's on Love - love one another as I have loved you (Sacrificing one's own life willingly out of love for another)

Ask Fr. Jenkins (and that other CINO priest from "America" just on CNN with Raymond Arroyo) if he'd enjoy having the same done to him.

Notre Dame today was exposed to the world. It showed its true colors. These were merely more of the boiling frog syndrome - consciences, if not yet seared, slowly arriving at that point, but oh, in such "purified" surroundings. The goats being separated from the lambs by cheap talk.

Posted by: KC at May 17, 2009 3:43 PM


So the Catholic leadership can just act like they're making a big fuss about it, then throw up their hands and say "Oh well, we tried." to take the blame off of themselves because they can't really do anything about it? They can, and should. Where are the excommunications? They can start with every single "pro-choice" politician that calls his or herself a Catholic...They should be fighting harder.

I cannot do anything about this. I am not affiliated with any religious organization that is supposed to hold sway over other peoples' lives, and even if I was, I wouldn't be a ranked member with any sort of power. THESE PEOPLE ARE. Why aren't they acting instead of just pontificating and throwing lawyer-written memos at the problem?

Posted by: xalisae at May 17, 2009 3:44 PM


Angel,

You said I was wrong and then paraphrased what I said. I think we are in agreement here. Notre Dame failed to teach them right from wrong.

You can't deny that they acquired knowledge in four years of study.

Posted by: Ed at May 17, 2009 3:46 PM


Is Obama ay ND now? Can anyone tell me?

Posted by: heather at May 17, 2009 3:49 PM


Fed:

C'mon...you can't call yourself the Vicar of Christ and the head of the Catholic Church and then let something like this happen. And you're trying to fluff this off by insulating the pope with an organizational chart?

Ultimately, the pope is responsible. His failure here to act decisively and forcefully was a huge blunder. The RCC's name has been blasphemed and compromised, especially to non-Catholics who I'd bet lost any respect they had for the RCC. I can just imagine all the Notre Dame/Virgin Mary jokes now. So much for infallibility.

Now I don't want to tutn this into Catholic bashing because I know there are numerous sold out Christian Catholics on this site and you guys have been terribly hurt by this whole mess. You were totally disrepsected and discounted.

However, this has got to wake up the chruch to the reality of how not focusing on Scripture results in much deception.

I'll tell you what, if this had happened at the church I go to, I'd be gone or the people that were responsible would be gone.

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 3:58 PM


HisMan at one time the Catholic learning insitutions were run by members of a specific order such as the Sisters of St. Joseph or the Jesuits etc. These teachers would then be directly responsible to their orders who often were responsible to their bishops and in the case of the Jesuits, the bishop of Rome - the Pope.

However, today many of the Catholic schools and universities no longer have this relationship. Many of the profs and teachers are lay people.
The same has happened with the Catholic hospitals which are really catholic in name only.

Bishop D'Arcy has already stated he does not support ND and Fr. Jenkins and did not attend the convocation.

The next move, really would be to strip ND of it's Catholic title.


I give you this quote by the esteemed George Weigel:

"The Obama administration is full of very smart political operators. Reading last November’s electoral entrails, they’ve sensed the possibility of driving a wedge through the Catholic community in America, dividing Catholics from their bishops and thus securing the majority Catholic vote Obama received in 2008. And they’ve shrewdly judged that the soft underbelly of Catholic resistance to the Obama administration’s radical agenda on the life issues is composed of Catholic intellectuals, their prestige institutions (like Notre Dame and Georgetown), and their opinion journals—the very people and opinion centers who claimed last year that Obama was the true pro-life candidate. It’s a clever move on the political chessboard, and barring extraordinary actions from the bishops, it will likely meet with considerable success."

We would do well to remember that we battle against principalities and powers. God will triumph in his own way. Fr. Jenkins has chosen his side.

Posted by: angel at May 17, 2009 4:01 PM


Where are Jill's comments?

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 4:01 PM


It's interesting to see how Ambassador Keyes, Obama's opponent in his quest to become Senator from Illinois, has maintained his position as the sort of anti-Obama and champion of the truth and of conservatism. Amb. Keyes, a fellow African America and articulate orator, has been the outspoken conservative mirror and check on Obama's rhetorical flourishes. Amb. Keyes, a devout Catholic, has played a crucial role loyal opposition and spokesman for the faith. Chairman Steele has also made the Republican opposition to Obama's ND commencement and honorary degree known and has fought the good fight.

Posted by: N.E. at May 17, 2009 4:03 PM


At the commencement, respect, courtesy, willingness to listen, recognition of achievement, valuing education and thought.

On this post: insane hate speech.

Fortunately, the latter represents less than 1% of Americans, and fewer every day.

Posted by: Bystander at May 17, 2009 4:05 PM


Angel,

You said I was wrong and then paraphrased what I said. I think we are in agreement here. Notre Dame failed to teach them right from wrong.

You can't deny that they acquired knowledge in four years of study.
Posted by: Ed at May 17, 2009 3:46 PM

not really Ed. Because one would HOPE that a young person would have learned right from wrong many years ago, in the hearth of their Catholic homes BEDFORE they got to ND>
What I had originally typed and then deleted some of, was that imo, parents, teachers, priests and bishops are all to blame for what has happened here and for what has happened to the practice of the Catholic faith.
My own children already KNOW what is right and wrong. They have the example of Catholic parents to fall back on. Ultimately it is their choice. But I can better the odds of them choosing the practice of their faith in all it's fullness, IF I myself am living that faith in an honest truthful way. This means no BC, no abortion, no premarital, extra-marital sex etc, etc.
My guess is that many of these kids come from homes where the parents have used BC, some have had abortions, had relatives and friends that have had abortions.
By the time these kids have gotten to ND, most of them have seem parents, friends, siblings, priests etc who have compromised on their Catholic beliefs. Each time this happens the beliefs of others are weakened. Multiply this many times over the years and these kids have nothing left.

Posted by: angel at May 17, 2009 4:12 PM


Bystander, lol! You're more agitated than usual tonight.

Posted by: heather at May 17, 2009 4:12 PM


What's wrong BS? Those Plfers got you a little rattled tonight?

Posted by: heather at May 17, 2009 4:13 PM


"At the commencement, respect, courtesy, willingness to listen, recognition of achievement, valuing education and thought.

On this post: insane hate speech.

Fortunately, the latter represents less than 1% of Americans, and fewer every day.

Posted by: Bystander at May 17, 2009 4:05 PM"
------------------------------

Actions speak louder than word BSer and abortion is the ultimate hate speech.

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 4:18 PM


I'll tell you what, if this had happened at the church I go to, I'd be gone or the people that were responsible would be gone.
Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 3:58 PM

we don't leave HisMan because Jesus promised us he would always be with the Catholic Church and that he would send us the Holy Spirit.
Pope Benedict himself has said that the number of true Catholics would eventually be reduced.
What many young Catholics do not understand is that it has ALWAYS been counter cultural to be Catholic. And this often comes at great personal sacrifice. Many young catholics are not familiar with sacrifice because they haven't witnessed it in their home life. They haven't seen mom and dad sacrificing personal goals and dreams to have another child or to have many children. We live in a very nihilistic, narcissistic society.

Posted by: angel at May 17, 2009 4:21 PM


President Obama said in his speech today, "Let us work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions."

If there's nothing wrong with abortion, why work to reduce the number of them?

Posted by: Luana at May 17, 2009 4:24 PM


BSer, in actuality a more appropriate response to Obama's speech would have been a Christ-like turning over of the tables of the money changers at the Temple. Yes, an expresion of rage at the absolute convolution of God's intent.

Believe me, I would have been glad to oblige had I been there.

And you can bet that God hates political correctness when His name is blasphemed and that's exactly what your demonic hero did today, not only in front of a live audience of thousands, but, to the world.

I don't expect you, a theological know-nothing, to understand or comprehend this and translate this is into a value based reaction.

What I have learned to expect always from you is a morally relativistic and convenient reaction. You lecture us pro-lifers on how hateful and how respectful you pro-deathers are but you are the ones whose actions result in the deaths of millions of innocents. I mean does this not encapsulate the whole pro-abortion theme, mind-set and talking points? You take the truth and turn it inside out. You pro-deathers are connoisseurs of propaganda. Nazi-like is a much more apropos metaphor.

And regarding your 1% ruse; "the gate to life is narrow and few that are that find it."

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 4:34 PM


If there's nothing wrong with abortion, why work to reduce the number of them?
Posted by: Luana at May 17, 2009 4:24 PM

exactly! Wonder what his answer would be to this question?

Posted by: angel at May 17, 2009 4:38 PM


"President Obama said in his speech today, "Let us work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions."

If there's nothing wrong with abortion, why work to reduce the number of them?

Posted by: Luana at May 17, 2009 4:24 PM"

------------------------------

Luana:

You are a perfect example of someone who has listened to garbage mouth and thought about what he said instead of taking the bait, hook, line and sinker. It demonstrates that you are not a lazy learner as most of the so-called "educated", video game nursed, young people are today.

When one diagrams what this blasphemer says, one can only conclude that this man is a liar of gross proportions. His statements are twisted and make no sense.

I dare any pro-abort on this site to quote Obamanation and let me challenge the sewer mouth.

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 4:44 PM


The MSM is reporting Obama's message is one of 'finding common ground', 'having open hearts and open minds'...'not demonizing each other over this issue' etc etc. How in the name of God can one look at these horrific images of dismembered babies, babies with skulls bored out so their brains can be sucked out... because that is what abortion really is.!!!

How can he stand there and say these things and how can a Catholic university honor such a man....

Posted by: Rick at May 17, 2009 4:47 PM


Bystander,

Read my 2:04 post. It wasn't hate speech. It's an honest question which I believe you should be able to answer in kind.

Posted by: carder at May 17, 2009 4:49 PM


Yeah, the thing is, Obama supports the murder of 40,000,000 children, including the ones that are born alive. Pretty demonic.

Posted by: Lauren at May 17, 2009 4:50 PM


BSer alert, BSer alert, Danger, Danger:

BSer has pulled the polite card out.

Have no fear, remember this is what they are trained to do when we criticize the salvation through-abortion-messiah or better-living-through-the-death-of-innocent-children-king.

Remember the pro-death motto:

"Whenever anyone takes a stand against abortion, we are to demonize them, destroy them, devalue them, cut them down, make them appear as an enemy and threat to everyone. If they are gentle, accuse them of association with dangerous people. If they are vociferous and strong, accuse them of being impolite, ill-mannered and vulgar. But don't let them make you think that abortion is bad, it is not bad, because we are right and they are the wrong and they are the enemy and must be stopped at all costs".


Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 4:52 PM


Hey Rick:

What's your beef?

C'mon, you know that sex offender in your city....open your heart and mind my friend. After all, it's just a kid that he's wanting to kill, steal and destroy.

And oh, what about Mr. Sexual Predator there on the next street over? Hey, can't we all just get along?

I mean, why don't you just move? Why in the world would you want to take the choice away from a fellow citizen?

Man you're hateful and vulgar.

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 4:56 PM


"What Catholic leadership did today was to let the wolves inside the pen. These are not good shepherds, these are cannibals who would allow their young to be eaten."

Hisman, those liberals stick together through thick and thin...

Posted by: Jasper at May 17, 2009 5:09 PM


What hateful and Obama bashing postings. What hypocritic site. I am glad you are a small hateful minority. You are pretending the be the keeper of some moral values pointing fingers at others. Christianity at its worst.

Posted by: politicos at May 17, 2009 5:12 PM


Well:

I'm going to spend some quality time with my 12 year old who we didn't conveniently abort because we were getting older and he would have interfered with our retirement plans but in actuality turned out to be so full of joy that we are ecstatic to have him as a son and wish that Obamanation would understand that every single life is worthy of living and that he has no right to promote, support and condone the murder of children in the womb and call himself a Christian.......we're outa here.

Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 5:13 PM


Awesome, thoughtful speech by Obama vs. mangled fetus posters, ketchup covered dolls, and other histrionic tantrum throwing.

I think you all played right into the President's hands with this one. He came out smelling like a rose, and you all look like a bunch of circus freaks. Sweet.

Posted by: Penny Dreadful at May 17, 2009 5:18 PM


"We were this close to grads and families entering the Center..."

Those sound like the words of eerie terrorists more than protestors. You made fools out of yourselves with your actions, and now, terrorists out of yourselves with your words.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at May 17, 2009 5:21 PM


Hey, politicos, I'm not religious.

And at this point, I don't think there's anything Obama COULD do that would make you all think that he smells like anything less than a rose. If he rolled around in dung for a 1/2 hour, you'd all start insisting that roses smell just like dung, for real. Well, maybe not ALL roses, but there is this one type of rose that-I swear-smells just like Obama does, totally.

Posted by: xalisae at May 17, 2009 5:27 PM


Actions are substantive and lasting. Words are ephemeral and fleeting.

There has always been and continues to be a contradiction between Obama's words and actions.

Everyone is so mesmerized by his words, that they miss the actions.

He says he wants to reduce abortion, yet his actions ensure there will be more abortions.

Posted by: Jim (ND '91) at May 17, 2009 5:28 PM


I will continue to pray for Obama, as I am for Nancy Pelosi and my wife's arthritis.

Posted by: Andy at May 17, 2009 5:33 PM


Yes, Xalisae...being thoughtful and considered, and not responding with the same level of red-faced tantrum throwing that he was faced with certainly reflects badly on Obama....

Like I said, right into his hands. All the histrionics simply ensured that more people were paying attention when he spoke. Then it's just inevitable that your side looks bad by comparison. Right into his hands.

Posted by: Penny Dreadful at May 17, 2009 5:33 PM


I hope that his speech wasn't about abortion, I really do. I hope that it was about going out to meet the world with outstretched arms and about the value of education. That would be nice.

Posted by: Vannah at May 17, 2009 5:35 PM


That's good that you pray for him, Andy. Every leader must be prayed for. Thank you. :D.

Posted by: Vannah at May 17, 2009 5:39 PM


Carder 4:49 and 2:40 You are right, your comments were not hate speech. Father Jenkins says a dialogue is useful. I will respond very briefly, as I have little time. In order:

I think I have an "open heart and mind" since the bulk of my family and friends are pro life,
I respect their positions, but believe that early term abortion through about 14 weeks should be allowed, with later abortion only in clear cases of danger to the mother. I don't scream at or demonize them and they don't scream at or demonize me. I don't try to force my views on them or vice versa. Works pretty well.

As set forth above, I am not "exceptionally pro choice" as I would not allow late term abortions in the absence of true medical emergency. I am probably in the middle or slightly more conservative than the average American, pretty much on par with Obama.

I am not sure that there has been any legislation, but Obama's policies are aimed at comprehensive sex education, availability of contraception, recognition that abstinence is an ideal that is not often achieved, and so you have to be responsible. His policies also would provide better health care for women and babies and encourage adoption, which most Americans and I agree with. These policies have a proven record of reducing abortions in Europe, where the rate is about 1/2 of the US rate.

What clearly does not work is the Jill Stanek plan, making all contraception illegal or too difficult to obtain, no comprehensive sex education, insisting on abstinence until marrage (average age 28) a goal most of the advocates have not been able to personally comply with, wanting to go back 60 years and have people marry at 16, etc. Totally unrealistic, as Bristol Palin said before she was ordered to toe the party line. These policies are rooted in religious extremism, not reality and can only increase the number of unwanted pregnancies and increase the number of abortions.

I think most Americans agree with the goals of reducing abortion by implementing appropriate policies.

Anyway, Carder,thanks for the courtesy and listening. Have a pleasant evening.

Posted by: Bystander at May 17, 2009 5:40 PM


Nope, Vannah. It was about abortion. Penny, he was about as respectful as a teenager spitting on a cross.

Posted by: Lauren at May 17, 2009 5:40 PM


It really was about abortion? That's kind of, well, sad for a graduation speech.

Posted by: Vannah at May 17, 2009 5:44 PM


Well, it wasn't exclusively about abortion, but abortion was heavily mentioned. Same old mumblingls about respecting the opposition ect.


Here's a choice exerpt:

"Unfortunately, finding that common ground - recognizing that our fates are tied up, as Dr. King said, in a "single garment of destiny" - is not easy. Part of the problem, of course, lies in the imperfections of man - our selfishness, our pride, our stubbornness, our acquisitiveness, our insecurities, our egos; all the cruelties large and small that those of us in the Christian tradition understand to be rooted in original sin. We too often seek advantage over others. We cling to outworn prejudice and fear those who are unfamiliar"

Here's the full text. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/17/obama-notre-dame-speech-f_n_204387.html

Posted by: Lauren at May 17, 2009 5:48 PM


Let's compare Obama's words in Notre Dame with his previous statements and actions.

Notre Dame: "Open hearts. Open minds. Fair-minded words. It's a way of life that always has been the Notre Dame tradition."
2008 Planned Parenthood Action Fund conference: "On this fundamental issue, I will not yield."

ND: "I do not suggest that the debate surrounding abortion can or should go away."
2008 PPFA: "[C]ulture wars are so nineties."

ND: He said he favored "a sensible conscience clause" that would give anti-abortion health care providers the right to refuse to perform the procedure.
2009: Obama overturned conscience regulations set up by Health and Human Services under Bush.

ND: [H]e said those on each side of the debate "can still agree that this is a heart-wrenching decision for any woman to make.
2008 PPFA: Ridiculed Justice Kennedy's acknowledgement of post-abortion regret in the Gonzales v Carhart decision (which upheld the ban on partial-birth abortion.)

ND: "So let's work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions by reducing unintended pregnancies, and making adoption more available, and providing care and support for women who do carry their child to term."
During presidential campaign: Told pro-abortion group RH Reality Check that he opposes government funding for pregnancy resource centers, which (funny enough) provide care and support for women who do carry their child to term. (Adoption and unplanned pregnancy haven't gotten much play yet, but we'll see.)

There are two faces to President Obama. When among pro-lifers, he acknowledges disagreement but emphasizes common ground and assures the crowd of his support for related issues like physician consience and support for pregnant and post-abortive women. Elsewhere, he does exactly the opposite. Is his hypocrisy any worse than that of other politicians? Probably not. But the growing pro-life movement will hold this politician accountable.

http://secularprolife.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59

Posted by: Kelsey at May 17, 2009 5:57 PM


Posted by: Bystander at May 15, 2009 6:40 PM

"I am confident the university and law enforcement can protect all participants against the publicity-seeking thugs."

------------------------------------------------------

Bystander

The wicked flee in terror when no one pursues because they are bullies and cowards.

Please identify the 'thugs' on the video.

Give us a description like you would if you were filing a police report.

Gender, hair color, age, ethnicity, what they were wearing any identifying tatoos, scarrs, body piercings, etc.

Give us the time that the 'thugs' were threatening or assauting anyone.

I thought I saw a man and woman who resembled Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorhn, but I might have been mistaken.

Please help us we want to avoid 'thugs' like Ayers and Dorhn.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at May 17, 2009 6:09 PM


Everyone is so mesmerized by his words, that they miss the actions.

He says he wants to reduce abortion, yet his actions ensure there will be more abortions.
Posted by: Jim (ND '91) at May 17, 2009 5:28 PM

yes I agree.
What we really need to do is strip Notre Dame of it's Catholic title. But I fear the bishops will not have the guts to do this.

Posted by: angel at May 17, 2009 6:11 PM


I have to say, I'm shocked. Barack Obama spoke at, and received an honorary doctorate from, the University of Notre Dame, and yet the sky hasn't fallen, contrary to the dire prognostications coming from people on this site. Don't you folks all feel silly now? This speech, from our sitting President, lasted no more than an hour, and tomorrow morning, the sun is still going to rise and your pro-life movement is still going to be marching along without disruption. Perhaps, over time, after it becomes apparent that a single speech by a pro-choice president at a Catholic university hasn't caused a massive and irreversible schism in the Catholic Church, many of you will look back and agree that you made a big deal out of nothing.

Posted by: Devo at May 17, 2009 6:22 PM


Devo, you're kidding right?

Posted by: Lauren at May 17, 2009 6:28 PM


devo you missed the mark by soooo much, I can't thing of where to begin.

Try again. (hint: reread some of the posts on this blog, especially any links to Catholic sources)

Posted by: angel at May 17, 2009 6:30 PM


To the "blind" writing here. You haven't noticed the state of the world lately due to this growing culture of death? This speech only anoints the status quo.

Devo: that a single speech by a pro-choice president at a Catholic university hasn't caused a massive and irreversible schism in the Catholic Church, many of you will look back and agree that you made a big deal out of nothing.

Again, the "massive and (perhaps) irreversible schism" is obviously there and Obama's invite clearly revealed it - exposed it. The lines are clearly being drawn between good and evil - for all to see. And that includes the thinking contained in religious institutions. Nothing is hidden any longer. In that is where the Creator works good out of evil...by exposing both so His creation can no longer pretend an excuse.

Posted by: KC at May 17, 2009 6:33 PM


Devo,

Here is a neat little video clip that not only illustrates your preferred way of handling civil disobedience but the callous disregard the 'dead babies are us' crowd have for prenatal children trapped in the uterus with only one way out and their attacker is blocking the way with the instruments of death in his blood stained hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojOkGSTzxyY

"General, how does a child shot with a 303 Lee/Enfield apply for help?"

How does the prenatal child who is being dismemberd apply for help?

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at May 17, 2009 6:58 PM


Could MLK be only a little bit reasonable and agreed to disagree that not all slavery is wrong and well maybe, just reduce the number? Problem is we can never debate slavery because our educational system has properly brainwashed people ( can you bleieve it) that slaves are real persons, contrary to what the supreme court ruled back then. Babies in the womb are not persons- we've been thoroughly taught this way of correct thinking for the last 40 years- who are these cretans crhistians to tell us otherwise? Heil Obama!

Posted by: Stand for life at May 17, 2009 6:58 PM


And you're trying to fluff this off by insulating the pope with an organizational chart?
HisMan, I'm not "fluffing" anything. Just for you, I pulled up an April 14, 2009 transcript of Fr Pacwa speaking about the ND controversy on Threshhold of Hope. Scroll to 5:00 into the audio if you want to hear him explain the 1966 Supreme Court decision which took away control of Catholic universities from the religious orders which founded them.

http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/dload1.asp?audiofile=toh_04142009.mp3&source=file_index.asp&seriesID=6694&T1=12

So much for infallibility.
That's a cheap shot, HisMan. If you were truly raised Catholic, you know this has nothing to do with papal infallibilty. I know you hold a lot of rancor toward the Church, but must you display it by saying things blatantly false about her?

You were totally disrepsected and discounted.
That's part and parcel of being a Christian, isn't it?

I'll tell you what, if this had happened at the church I go to, I'd be gone or the people that were responsible would be gone.
That would be your decision and I'd respect it. Are you able to respect the decision of Catholic commenters here choose to remain in the Church and work to strengthen her?

Posted by: Fed Up at May 17, 2009 7:05 PM


http://www.thedailychange.com/notre-dame-obama-%e2%80%93-exactly-what-are-they-honoring/


Rev. John I. Jenkins, President of the University of Notre Dame, an ABORTION SUPPORTER?
The Daily Change ^ | 05172009 | TDC

Posted on Sunday, May 17, 2009 7:22:36 PM by TheDailyChange

Mr. Jenkins sits on the board of directors for Millennium Promise, Millennium Promise supports Abortion services: In countries where abortion is legal, safe abortion services in controlled settings by skilled practitioners should be established.

Posted by: KC at May 17, 2009 7:33 PM


Hisman, those liberals stick together through thick and thin...

Posted by: Jasper at May 17, 2009 5:09 PM--------------------------------------------------------------- Yes jasper, that's becuse they are all suffering from the same mental disorder. It's called LIBERALISM!

Posted by: heather at May 17, 2009 7:54 PM


HisMan, here's an incredibly dry and boring article about the secularization of faith-based (Catholic AND Protestant) universities.
http://www.capitalresearch.org/pubs/pdf/x3759639169.pdf

I thought this was interesting on p6:
"Explaining his reason for transferring Notre Dame to a board of trustees in 1967, president Rev. Theodore Hesburgh,C.S.C., said, 'I knew that if I were going to see Notre Dame grow into a first-rate Catholic university, I could no longer have to get permission from a Provincial [of the sponsoring Holy Cross Fathers] every time I needed a new lawn mower.' ”

The article talks about other reasons faith-based universities secularized that Fr Pacwa didn't touch upon in the audio link above.

Here's something we can probably agree on:
"many college administrators and faculty continue to balk at renewing the religious identity of their institutions, especially if it requires deference to church authority." p7

KC, that news about Fr J came out last week. I didn't see any reference to it outside Catholic news sites.

Posted by: Jim (ND '91) at May 17, 2009 5:28 PM
There has always been and continues to be a contradiction between Obama's words and actions.

Well said!

Posted by: Fed Up at May 17, 2009 8:17 PM


For too long, American Catholics have been taught that to be Catholic, to be a "good Christian", one must be "nice" to everyone. Well, I'm sorry, if I'm going to imitate Christ, I can't be "nice" when I see evil being done and called good, when I hear lies being called truth, when the wicked are praised and lauded, and the godly are thrown into prison. Was Jesus always "nice"? He called people hypocrites, whitewashed tombs, vipers --- BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE WERE EXACTLY THAT, AND HE HAD TO SPEAK THE TRUTH. He overturned the moneychangers' tables when the secular was set up IN THE HOLY PLACE. Yes, He died for them as well as for those who followed Him. I know that. But He still told the truth and did what was right. Holiness and truth are far more important than "niceness".

Posted by: Rosemary A. at May 17, 2009 8:44 PM


Moderators, please delete the comment above from fairness, name calling will get you no where. And really, calling yourself fairness and then acting so childish.

And I say Amen to Rosemary. It's not nice to dismember your own child, how did you miss that in kindergarten?

Posted by: Lovethemboth at May 17, 2009 9:11 PM


Hi folks,

I've spent many hours reading the comments on this ND controversy, and am very frustrated at the myopic views of both sides. This breaks down to the 'religious preferences' for those who are non-religious, or the split between liberal and conservative views, if you like political landscapes. Is there more: decidedly YES!

Many decades ago, I understood that this was all the two sides talked about ad nausium ... too bad so little has changed!

Here are a few things to consider:
1) There are (massive) changes in emotions during pregnancy and shortly afterward ... commonly called post-partum depression. [Nobody talks about the weird actions taken by some women in this 'depressive-state' as 'murder' because it resolves absolutely nothing.]
2) These mood swings were likely caused by a zinc deficiency ??????????????????
IF THESE THEORIES ARE CORRECT, THERE IS NO 'FAULT', EVERYONE IS CHARGED WITH SEEKING OPTIMAL HEALTH!

3) Almost all so-called rational(logical) decisions have a context that imprint their origin as left-brain hemisphere (and a very small 2 centimeter[1" approx] section of this). Please read the info on Dr. Jill Taylor's site. This is not a pro-life site, but it has much insight for us all! drjilltaylor.com

I am particularly discouraged by some pro-lifers who believe that all avenues are exhausted! We're barley scratching the surface!

Posted by: John McDonell at May 17, 2009 9:28 PM


HisMan,

"I'll tell you what, if this had happened at the church I go to, I'd be gone or the people that were responsible would be gone."
Posted by: HisMan at May 17, 2009 3:58 PM

You have an advantage that Catholics don't. You have many churches to choose from. There's only one Catholic Church and only one Pope. Please stop your Catholic bashing - it's getting old. Don't make the false claim that the Catholic Church is not Biblical. Read the Catholic missal.

Posted by: Janet at May 17, 2009 10:00 PM


I'm glad they were arrested, they have no common sense. The main issue is to reduce unwanted pregnancy. I'm tired of the extremists.

Posted by: Rodney King at May 18, 2009 5:36 AM


I am tired of extremists like Barack Obama too, Rodney King.

Posted by: Carla at May 18, 2009 8:46 AM


Carla, me too!

Posted by: heather at May 18, 2009 8:52 AM


I'm glad they were arrested, they have no common sense. The main issue is to reduce unwanted pregnancy. I'm tired of the extremists.
Posted by: Rodney King at May 18, 2009 5:36 AM
................................................

Rodney,

There's a 'problem' here .... and it has to do with the words YOU SELECTED. 'Extreme' would be an action like killing another living human being ... or, is this just action (killing) just common sense? Abortion DOES 'reduce pregnancy', very effectively.

This isn't mainly about too horny teens, but many married folk who perceive that children are an interference in their plans, especially regarding 'timing'.

Posted by: John McDonell at May 18, 2009 11:26 AM


Hi Jophn, it's nice to see you~!!

Posted by: heather at May 18, 2009 2:57 PM


*oops John*

Posted by: heather at May 18, 2009 7:37 PM


The apologists for Obama are starting to look more desperate. But beware of their tactics--notice Bystander above used the term "hate speech." That's not by accident, because the "hate crimes" bill going through Congress right now will effectively eliminate free speech on key moral issues.
Maybe in 4 years, when Obama has completely wrecked the economy, people will start to wake up.

Posted by: Marianne at May 18, 2009 7:43 PM


The apologists for Obama are starting to look more desperate. But beware of their tactics--notice Bystander above used the term "hate speech." That's not by accident, because the "hate crimes" bill going through Congress right now will effectively eliminate free speech on key moral issues.
Maybe in 4 years, when Obama has completely wrecked the economy, people will start to wake up. Unless he will have seized all power and become the first American dictator. It's coming, folks. Wake up before it's too late!

Posted by: Marianne at May 18, 2009 7:43 PM