Jivin J's Life Links 6-01-09

web grab.jpgby JivinJ

  • A Daily Kos diarist has posted a transcript of late-term abortionist Warren Hern blaming Tiller's death on the anti-abortion movement and comparing it to the Taliban during an MSNBC interview:
    This was not an act of a lone deranged gunman, this is a result of 35 years of relentless and merciless anti -abortion harassment, violence, and intimidation, hate speech, and violent rhetoric and this is the absolutely predictable consequence of that kind of mindless harassment and fanaticism....

    The main difference between the American anti-abortion movement and the Taliban is about 8k miles....

    The Denver Post and Colorado Independent have posted by statements by Hern which echo comments he made in the MSNBC interview.

  • The Washington Post reports abortion advocates are getting reassurances that Judge Sotomayor shares their feelings about abortion:
    But White House officials appeared eager to send a message that abortion rights groups do not need to worry about how she might rule in a challenge to Roe v. Wade.

    "He did not specifically ask, as we've stated for the past several days," Gibbs said. "But as I just said, I think he feels -- I know he feels -- comfortable, generally, with her interpretation of the Constitution being similar to that of his...."

    In the few days since Sotomayor's nomination, no record of her personal feelings on the issue have emerged; some former clerks say they do not remember discussing it with her. George Pavia, senior partner in the law firm that hired Sotomayor as a corporate litigator before her days on the bench, said he thinks that support of abortion rights would be in line with her generally liberal instincts.

    "I can guarantee she'll be for abortion rights," Pavia said.

  • A strong majority of Spaniards are opposed to the government's plan to allow minors to have abortions without parental consent.

  • The blog of the Center for Genetics and Society quotes Alta Charo, a pro-choice bioethicist and proponent of ESCR as saying, "there's almost been a conspiracy of hype in (the stem cell) field":
    Frankly, the scientific community wasn't innocent in this either as the journals have started sending out media alerts and press releases about papers they think are important which also tend to overhype the significant of each paper. How can there be a groundbreaking, a pathbreaking paper every other week from Nature? It's not possible, unless you're going to redefine those terms. And so all of us collectively have been moved into a state of near hysteria around this topic, pro and con, for all sorts of reasons having very little to do with actually making some scientific progress.


  • Comments:


    I just read that Chicago had 7 shooting deaths in a 24 hour period. Outrage anyone?

    Posted by: Mary at June 1, 2009 2:51 PM


    Warren Hern is old and will probably end up dying from health problems in the next couple years.

    By the way, once Hern goes, there is no one to take his place murdering children there in Boulder. Just as it is with Tiller having no one to continue his monstrous work there in Kansas.

    Abortionists are old and dying out and aren't being replaced. Praise God for that!

    Posted by: Ezek1319 at June 1, 2009 3:22 PM


    The main difference between the American anti-abortion movement and the Taliban is about 8k miles.

    What a horrible thing to say, and the pro aborts accuse pro life people of "hate." What else would you call that statement?

    All we want to do is save innocent babies and we are accused of being the Taliban or Nazis.

    Posted by: Joanne at June 1, 2009 3:42 PM


    Mr Hern:

    Wow can you lie. Aced English and Biology I see?

    This is really an amazing quote though and rife with diagrammatical problems: "Dr. Tiller was assassinated because he represented an idea: freedom. He helped women. We must ask: what is the difference between this terrorism and the Taliban?"

    Now was "this terrorism" he was talking about "because he represented an idea or because he helped women". Is that a Freudian slip, Dr.?

    You know, if you say one more word about pro-lifers being terrorists I think I'm gonna personally organize a class action lawsuit against you for libel. I hope you have a lot of assets.

    Posted by: HisMan at June 1, 2009 3:43 PM


    Oh and I meant to say.... women came from other countries to Tiller's mill. Canada has no abortion laws but apparently a lack of doctors who will do late term abortions.

    And of course women came from around the US as well. Hardly anyone will do late term abortions. Yes maybe for some it was a fear of getting harmed themselves but I believe for almost all it's because they know it's wrong.

    How can anyone take an oath to "do no harm" and then become an abortionist?

    Posted by: Joanne at June 1, 2009 3:44 PM


    Okay, now that we have expressed our shock, etc. that Tiller was murdered, let's move on to the practical and the absurd.

    Pro aborts will want restrictions on people passing out literature outside abortion clinics to "protect" abortionists.

    Tiller was murdered at church, not at his clinic.

    Had there been restrictions on people outside clinics, Tiller would still have been accessible at church.

    Reducing abortion is about getting the truth out. The murder of Tiller gives pro aborts the ball in their court. It redirects attention to bashing people who oppose abortion, while deflecting the view of abortion procedures.

    Bringing abortion procedures to the light of day is the most effective way to turn people against abortion.

    Posted by: hippie at June 1, 2009 3:44 PM


    Well lets see, with the shooting death of Tiller the Killer the score over the past 36 years is now Abortionists 6, Babies 60,000,000 in America and counting. Scripture does say that those who live by the sword, will die by the sword.


    What especially gets me was the TV coverage of the female minister at the bogus church Tiller "worshiped at" saying "George Tiller was a good Christian man" A killer for hire for the big $ a "good Christian?" What an oxymoron this whole statement was.

    Posted by: James Finnegan at June 1, 2009 4:12 PM


    Far left pro abort extremist Bonnie Erbe says "all pro life extremists" are to blame for Tiller's killing.

    I'm so sick of this!

    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/erbe/2009/06/01/tiller-murder-is-terrorism-and-all-pro-life-extremists-are-to-blame.html

    Posted by: Joanne at June 1, 2009 4:13 PM


    There are a thousand different points I could make, but I'll try this one:

    The latest poll showed that 52% of Americans are prolife. In the past ten years, ONE of those Americans (out of what, about 160 million?) committed a murder based on antiabortion sentiment.

    How many of the prochoice Americans have committed murder in the past ten years based on their sentiment in favor of abortion? Well, murder is the most common cause of death among pregnant women. Every week there's another story in the paper about a man who killed a woman who refused to abort his baby. Multiply that times ten years.

    Now, which philosophy has led to more murders?

    Can somebody get the raw data and do the math?

    Posted by: christina at June 1, 2009 4:28 PM


    James, how about the 6 murdered abortionists versus the at least 400 women that abortionists have killed plying their "safe and legal" trade since 1972?

    The "pro-woman" arm of the prochoice movement is conspicuously absent whenever one of these guys kills a woman. But let one of them bite the dust and everybody's screaming from the housetops.

    Makes it pretty clear whose lives really matter.

    Posted by: Christina at June 1, 2009 4:32 PM


    Christina: Don't forget the female babies that were destined to grow up to be women doctors, lawyers, teachers, astronauts, firefighters....contributers to society as a whole.

    Posted by: LizFromNebraska at June 1, 2009 4:48 PM


    If as they say…all pro-life extremists are to blame for Tiller's killing…

    Then it follows that all pro-abortionists get credit for the 50 million abortions done over the last 36 years.

    Perhaps they would be proud to take all of the credit, but…no…pro-lifers also share in at least some of it...both collectively and individually.

    Who among us has not cooperated in some way with the culture of death?

    Sigh…it’s just depressing. You can have my rock.

    Thank God for his mercy.

    Posted by: Tom R at June 1, 2009 5:11 PM


    Posted by: Joanne at June 1, 2009 4:13 PM


    So as a pro-life extremist, you're offended. Maybe you should mellow your tone a bit. It might give the movement a better, less homicidal reputation.

    Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 1, 2009 5:33 PM


    Posted by: Christina at June 1, 2009 4:32 PM

    How many women have died at the hands of God during child birth during that time period? Are you angry at Him too?

    Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 1, 2009 5:36 PM


    YLT: go back to your rock, sweetie.

    Posted by: angel at June 1, 2009 5:54 PM


    Very few women actually die during Childbirth in the 21st century with the medical technology we have now.

    Posted by: LizFromNebraska at June 1, 2009 6:13 PM


    yes Liz, except if you were SOMG and you believed that abortion is safer than childbirth. yeah, right!

    Posted by: angela at June 1, 2009 6:25 PM


    Yo La Tengo -

    Here is some info for you -

    http://www.2secondsfaster.com/2008/11/maternal-mortality-childbirth-vs-abortion/

    http://www.2secondsfaster.com/2008/11/maternal-mortality-misleading-information/

    All those facts were researched by me while I was a moderator on this blog. All facts are from the CDC and JAMA studies. No biased information is used.

    You will see that even the Guttmatcher Institute dared to tell the truth about maternal mortality when all others misled the public.

    Posted by: Valerie Jane at June 1, 2009 6:33 PM


    Valerie Jane,

    ylt is not interested in the truth or truth.

    ylt is as yet unable to distinquish between his/her preferred fantasies and reality.

    ylt has not yet heard the 'pop'. There is still a veil over her/his eyes and he/she is sitting in gross darkness.

    Do not waste your time attempting to 'reason' with ylt. He/she is not amenable to 'reason' at this time.

    You can not have an rational convesation with a mad man/woman.

    Trust, but verify. See for yourself what happens when you attempt to nail down some 'conclusions' with ylt.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at June 1, 2009 7:11 PM


    Want to read something depressing?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/how-i-and-other-pro-life_b_209747.html

    It's one thing that Franky's been going further and further off the deep end for years now. It's quite another that his self-loathing has him thinking that even this is "all about him."

    Want to see bathos? Read the comments, and consider the admiration poured on Franky for his self-flagellation. Full of hatred of Christianity, the commenters deem it proper and good that Franky's bleeding heart is full of self-contempt. It's the obligatory penance of Christianists, to abase themselves thus.

    Sad, sad, sad. The son of Francis Schaeffer, who brought Evangelicals into the pro-life camp, repenting of his own part as a youth in helping his father.

    Anyone care to pray for Franky? I've seen few willfully stoop lower.

    Posted by: rasqual at June 1, 2009 9:36 PM


    More to read in the comments here:

    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/r_albert_mohler_jr/2009/06/a_wicked_deed_in_wichita_-_a_test_for_the_pro-life_movement.html

    Non sequiturs abound, in spades, on steroids. It borders on insanity. That's the world we live in, folks.

    Posted by: rasqual at June 1, 2009 10:28 PM


    YLT: >>How many women have died at the hands of God during child birth during that time period? Are you angry at Him too?

    This is a valid point that really cannot be countered. To do so requires that one accepts the unprovable assumptions of the other side of the debate, which is a silly thing to expect.

    Posted by: Doug at June 1, 2009 10:35 PM


    How many died during abortions? Just break it down. How many filthy abortuaries saw a death due to septicemia? A botched anaesthetic? See if they drag the woman to an ER, the cause of death since she dies at the hospital is not the abortion because they didn't give her an abortion.. So dying from a ruptured uterous at the hospital is not reported as an abortion death.

    Just like they do not report under age girl rapes.

    Remember the abortuaries know all the tricks.

    Posted by: xppc at June 1, 2009 10:57 PM


    re: LizFromNebraska at June 1, 2009 6:13 PM


    Based on the current US population of just over 300,000,000 and the current maternal death rate of 11 in 100,000, over 30,000 women died giving birth. Not exactly a small number of actually alive people who actually died.

    Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 1, 2009 11:43 PM



    Based on the current US population of just over 300,000,000 and the current maternal death rate of 11 in 100,000, over 30,000 women died giving birth. Not exactly a small number of actually alive people who actually died.

    Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 1, 2009 11:43 PM

    are you saying 300 million is a lot of people? Mortality is 1 in 10,000? Every abortion procedure causes 10,000 deaths per 10 thousands of abortions or more.

    The mortality rates for moms post abortion include breast cancer, depression/suicide toxic shock and a long list of complications.

    Do you know why you prefer abortion as opposed to womens health?

    Posted by: xppc at June 2, 2009 9:02 AM


    Hi Doug.

    "YLT: >>How many women have died at the hands of God during child birth during that time period? Are you angry at Him too?

    Sorry Doug, but YLT displays horribly sloppy thinking. Let me show you why. Let's assume for the moment that YLT is correct that God "kills women during childbirth" and that this line of thinking does not reflect the theological maturity of a 6 year old. What is the underlying argument here? It is: If some action is not permissible for humans, then that same action is not permissible for God. Believe it or not, YLT is actually trying to make an A FORTIARI argument GOING THE WRONG WAY! If a human is not permitted to do something then, a fortiori, God is not permitted to do it. When the actual argument that is being made is put on the table, no one would accept it.

    But let's take this a step further and show how this. Take the contrapositive of the statement "If some action is not permissible for humans, then that same action is not permissible for God" which is logically equivalent to the original statement. The contrapositive would be "If an action is permissible for God, then that same action is permissible for humans." Now if this is the case as YLT claims, then abortion is not morally permissible. Why? Because it implies that the fetus can USE the mother's body. Why? Because I DO have a right to another person's kidney if my life is in danger and I need a kidney to survive, as the "great" bodily autonomy analogy goes. My daughter was born with only one kidney. God took one of her kidneys. Well, according to YLT, if God can do an action then a fortiori, I can perform that same action, so I too am allowed to take someone's kidney even if they don't want me to take it. Since we're allowed to use each other by taking each others kidneys, it follows that the fetus is allowed to use the mother to survive.

    Good to "see" you again though, Doug. Too bad it's under such sad terms (death of Tiller). God love you.

    Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at June 2, 2009 9:04 AM


    Sorry folks. Cells that have no central nervous system are not babies and it isn't "murder" when the woman comes to the doctor for help when a pregnancy has gone wrong. So your attempt to call it "murder" when a women enters a health clinic of her own volition doesn't hold any water whatsoever. This is her right as an American citizen by law. In addition a fetus cannot feel any pain until at least the 26th week...possibly longer.

    The murder of 8 doctors and countless acts of violence against legal healthcare for American citizens is a terrorist act. It is an act of domestic terrorism. You are attempting to subvert the law by intimidation and fear. And by "you" I mean those in the anti-choice movement who perpetuate lies, hysteria and slander about someone like Dr. Tiller or the safe procedures they perform to help women in times of crisis. Dr. Tiller was a very courageous man who didn't cower or run away from life in the face of "witch hunters" like the ignorant anti-choice movement. People like you understand nothing about democracy, science or even basic biology. You all have blood on your hands.

    Posted by: Bill Richards at June 2, 2009 8:49 PM


    When Tiller does abortions on women one day before their due dates on perfectly healthy babies what do you call that, Bill?

    Oh wait. Reproductive Health Care. Yeah. We know.

    Posted by: Carla at June 2, 2009 9:45 PM


    Oh and Bill,
    Dr. Tiller killed a young woman named Christin Gilbert. She had Down Syndrome and was pregnant. Know anything about that?

    Posted by: Carla at June 2, 2009 9:56 PM


    Bill, you obviously don't know what you are talking about. I work with babies far younger than 26 weeks on a regular basis when I work down in the NICU. They most certainly do feel pain and are not simply cells with no nervous system. In fact, they are highly sensitive to not only pain but all touch and therefore must be handled with the greatest of care. We bundle cares for these extreme preemies so as to avoid causing unnecessary distress.

    I suggest you read up on some basic embryology and learn how early the nervous system and other organs develop. If you actually do you will find out how seriously wrong you are.

    Posted by: Elisabeth at June 3, 2009 12:03 AM