Olbermann names Stanek "Worst Person in the World!"

UPDATE, 11:20p: I'm bestowed my honor beginning at 2:00 on the tape...

[HT: reader Janet]
_______________

In a small slew of emails calling me the c-word I read the news that MSNBC's Keith Olbermann named me the "Worst Person in the World!" tonight. Sure enough!

002.JPGMy award comes for supposedly making the supposedly last 2 late-term abortionists in the free world sitting ducks for Tiller copycat killers by posting their addresses and photos of their mills.

Never mind that I didn't actually post the addresses of LeRoy Carhart and Warren Hern (see posts here and here), had I done so it would have been akin to posting the address of President Obama and being accused of making him a target for nutcases.

Libs, get a brain. These guys both advertise on the web. They want people to know where they operate, pardon the pun.

Tomorrow Keith had best make Google the "Worst Search Engine in the World!" for posting a map and directions to Carhart's Abortion & Contraception Clinic of Nebraska and Hern's Boulder Abortion Clinic....

Furthermore, Carhart and Hern have enjoyed more positive press in the past 4 days than they've had over the course of their sick and sorry careers, gleefully taking every call from every news organization. Suddenly they're brain-sucking heroes. They love it.

The picture of Hern below - in front of his mill? It was posted in the Los Angeles Times an hour ago.

hern lat.jpg

This photo of Carhart's filthy rat hole of a chop shop? Published by the Associated Press June 1

carhart mill associated press.jpg

Still, I proudly accept my award. Thank you for the badge of honor, Keith!


Comments:

Congrats, Jill!

Don't forget to mention that the "Late-Term abortionist Carhart wants to continue Tiller's 'mission'" blog was primarily comprised of an article from the Associated Press. All of that info about the abortionists and their clinics?

From the AP.

I'm still waiting for the PCers to write and harass the Associated Press, Yahoo, and other news media outlets for publishing the same thing you did... only they did it FIRST.

Posted by: Kel at June 4, 2009 10:14 PM


Hi Jill

Keith Odorman? Just consider the source.

The "clinic" from a different angle is even lovelier. Do clients take the stairs over the top of the fence or walk through the gate?

The mural of the car or truck definitely adds to the aesthetics. Are those cars lined up to be chopped?

At least the "wacker" generator is gone. Imagine if a client had hit that with her car?
Would have knocked the clinic out of commission.

Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 10:14 PM


Actually, YLT, you can thank the Associated Press for all of that info. Have fun on your trip!

Posted by: Kel at June 4, 2009 10:15 PM


Mary, ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:26 PM


Mary,
I think that the garage door just flips right up for the clients.

Posted by: Carla at June 4, 2009 10:26 PM


"My award comes for supposedly making the supposedly last 2 late-term abortionists in the free world sitting ducks for Tiller copycat killers by posting their addresses and photos of their mills."

Doesn't the fact that Olbermann reported on YOU now make HIM the WORLD'S WORST PERSON?

Posted by: Janet at June 4, 2009 10:27 PM


Repeating said information on a website that is frequented by a far number of fantasically unhinged people is a recipe for disaster. It's like yelling "lets start a fire" in a pyromaniacs convention. Quite irresponsable if you ask me.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 4, 2009 10:27 PM


Carla, more ROFL!! My sides are hurting!

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:28 PM


The pix of Carharts place just sickens me. I am totally at a loss for words...

Are people SO blind that they cant see that a back alley abortion probably would be more sanitary than this building!

Again, Im truly sickened.

Posted by: yvonne at June 4, 2009 10:30 PM


Oh wow. Gee, the 3 abortion clinics I go to are advertised online and in the Yellow Pages. I wonder if a right winger is to blame?

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:30 PM


"Tomorrow Keith had best make Google the "Worst Search Engine in the World!" for posting a map and directions to Carhart's Abortion & Contraception Clinic of Nebraska and Hern's Boulder Abortion Clinic on its search engine."

Good one, Jill.

Posted by: Janet at June 4, 2009 10:31 PM


Hey yvonne, it is the back alley. It's just in the front these days.

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:32 PM


Carla 10:26PM

LOL
I bet there's even a freight elevator or car hoist for the clients to ride to the upper level.

Who says this place has no class?

Maybe there's even indoor plumbing, though I must admit port o potties do give it that extra....something.

Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 10:34 PM


Mary, Mary, LOL love it! What a classy joint!

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:36 PM


Remember the old clunker truck? Carhart probably didn't make his payments. They repoed it!

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:38 PM


re: Mary at June 4, 2009 10:34 PM

It sounds about as classy as the majority of your posts.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 4, 2009 10:41 PM


Repeating said information on a website that is frequented by a far number of fantasically unhinged people is a recipe for disaster. It's like yelling "lets start a fire" in a pyromaniacs convention. Quite irresponsable if you ask me.
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 4, 2009 10:27 PM
*********************************

I notice you are a regular commenter here.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: Kel at June 4, 2009 10:41 PM


Well gee YLT,

Maybe you should say something to AP which published the location of Carhart's dive.

Maybe you should say something to the LA Times for publishing Hern's place and location.

Anybody can go on the computer and google or yahoo search the locations. Maybe you would like to have a word with them about that.

I wonder if the militias publish this info on their websites. Ever get over to one and give them a talking to about promoting violence and lawlessness in people like Roeder and Rudolph.

Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 10:41 PM


Like I said on the "Carhart wants to continue mission" thread, if that "clinic" was a Dentist's office, it would be SHUT DOWN for safety issues.

And Carhart proudly advertises in the yellow pages, so don't blame US for his address.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at June 4, 2009 10:41 PM


Well we aren't discussing class at this time. The topic is abortion clinic filth.

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:42 PM


YLT 10:41PM

You have such a way with words YLT.

Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 10:43 PM


Liz 10:41PM

If it was a kennel it would be shut down.

Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 10:45 PM


Jill,
He's calling you an abortion enabler, too. Isn't that special?

Keith Olbermann's Worst Person in The World" for 06/04/09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxhS5Yfan_4
(See the 2:00 minute mark)

Posted by: Janet at June 4, 2009 10:45 PM


Olberman should have continued with his sports commentator career instead.... unfortunately he stunk at it also!

Posted by: Vlad at June 4, 2009 10:47 PM


Liz, do you live near this clinic? I see you live in Nebraska. What do people in your town think of Carhartless?

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:48 PM


If it was a car repair shop, it would be shut down.

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:49 PM


Its no wonder PMSNBC's ratings are in the port o potty.

Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 10:50 PM


Heck, if you goggle Preterm, you will get a full tour of their facility on line.

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:51 PM


Janet: Great point! Keith dutifully tags Jill with the smear job, but in doing so actually steers many more to the very story he is criticizing, and thus to the information he is blaming Jill for.

Does this make him the "World's Worse Person"? No, because he already is the poster boy for the maxim: "liberalism is a mental illness." How much is he really responsible for?

Posted by: Jerry at June 4, 2009 10:52 PM


Mary, didn't you mean MSLSD? Somebody stop me!

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:53 PM


re :Posted by: LizFromNebraska at June 4, 2009 10:41 PM


You know the Nuremburg Files website also published well known names and addresses That got shut down and was the subject of prosecution for racketeering. Please think twice before using mob tactics against someone. It is okay to disagree, but implicit calls for action might be misconstrued by both authorities and by some of your less mentally stable readers. It's just a friendly reminder.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 4, 2009 10:54 PM


Odorman will bring you more blog traffic. He did you a favor.

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:54 PM


YLT 10:54PM

You're being funny, right?

Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 10:57 PM


Heather 10:53PM

Good One. :)

Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 10:58 PM


Jill,

If you can make that coke snorting Pedophile pay attention to you; you're obviously doing something right.

Adding you to my links page or as they're called the Blogroll

Posted by: Paleo Pat at June 4, 2009 11:00 PM


Okay, just watched the clip. Just enabled a woman to have an abortion? huh? Give me what Oderman's having. UH, it's in the yellow pages ding dong!

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 11:02 PM


Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 10:57 PM

Nope. I'm serious. It is one thing to protest, peacefully and prayerfully and it is another to call for action (implicitly or explicitly) in a charged atmosphere. The second option is never wise, and not especially when the media's glare is upon you.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 4, 2009 11:04 PM


I just came over here to comment that attacks on pro life people are getting demonic and wicked and olberman pops up. Between olberman and his identical twin Erbe who promoted Michelle malking deserving being sexually assaulted today, the devil is out.

Posted by: xppc at June 4, 2009 11:07 PM


Jerry,

" How much is he really responsible for?"

LOL. You'd think Oldman could find a decent make-up guy.

* * * *

Guys,

Here's a story on the renovation of Carharts building.

Abortion Collaborators Admonished For Work On Damaged Abortion Mill
http://www.operationrescue.org/archives/abortion-collaborators-admonished-for-work-on-damaged-abortion-mill/

Posted by: Janet at June 4, 2009 11:07 PM


Heather,

Its just hilarious. The info is out there, this is the computer age after all folks. People can find info if they want to badly enough.

We also have the Yellow Pages. Both in paper and on computer.

I was able to find the name and phone number of the people living in my childhood home, which I moved out of over 40 years ago and had no clue who was living in it now.

Certainly people can locate abortion clinics!

Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 11:08 PM


YLT, 11:04PM

Some direct quotes of the "action" called for on Jill's blog please.

Posted by: Mary at June 4, 2009 11:10 PM


Mary, why of course they can. Women were even able to find "doctors" who would perform abortions while it was still illegal!

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 11:11 PM


YLT,
There's no "call to action" going on here. Don't 'cha worry about us.

Posted by: Janet at June 4, 2009 11:12 PM


ctually, Carhart was charged with animal cruelty when it came to his horses.

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 11:13 PM


It sounds about as classy as the majority of your posts.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 4, 2009 10:41 PM

Thanks from all of us. The world is back to the back alley abortion trips. I wonder if Tillers shp will have a garage sale for the do it yer selfers like carhart. With Obamacare they will be reimbursed 58.88 dollars and done by senior student physician assistants.

Posted by: xppc at June 4, 2009 11:14 PM


heather @ 11:11 PM,

"Women were even able to find "doctors" who would perform abortions while it was still illegal!"

I was thinking the same thing!! It was all word of mouth. The old network in Chicago went by the name "Jane".

Posted by: Janet at June 4, 2009 11:14 PM


*oops* should say actually^

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 11:15 PM


Janet, interesting. I never knew that. However, if you want info bad enough, there are plenty of ways to get it.

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 11:17 PM


Congrats Jill!

You know what really matters is how we look in God's eyes.

Olbermann is to be pitied. These people have no idea what awaits them after they die.

Help him Jesus.

Posted by: Ed at June 4, 2009 11:17 PM


Carhart's clinic is in Bellevue, which is sort of part of Omaha, Nebraska (I live in Lincoln). I've never seen his clinic, but I know there's a CPC close to it (like across the street) because I have met someone who works there at the CPC @ the information booths following my local Walk for Life.

From the comments posted on my local paper's website in the article about Carhart wanting to continue the MISSION of TILLER, a lot of people were, unfortunately, praising both men.

We have a sad disregard for ALL life in this country.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at June 4, 2009 11:18 PM


xppc, lol!

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 11:18 PM


Odorman will bring you more blog traffic. He did you a favor.
Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 10:54 PM

That's my opinion also. Odorman is such a moron but this is beyond the pale, even for him.

Anyway he gets clobbered in the ratings by Sean Hannity, a guy actually worth listening to.

Posted by: Joanne at June 4, 2009 11:18 PM


For those so inclined, this might be a good time for a prayer. For all women who are faced with unplanned pregnancies, for their families, for abortionists and their employees, that they may have a change of heart and come to appreciate the gift of life.

Prayer for the Helpless Unborn

Heavenly Father, in Your love for us, protect against the wickedness of the devil, those helpless little ones to whom You have given the gift of life. Touch with pity the hearts of those women pregnant in our world today who are not thinking of motherhood.
Help them to see that the child they carry is made in Your image - as well as theirs - made for eternnal life. Dispel their fear and selfishness and give them true womanly hearts to love their babies and give them birth and all the needed care that a mother alone can give.
We ask this through Jesus Christ, Your Son, Our Lord, who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, one God, forever and ever, Amen.
http://www.2heartsnetwork.org/prolife.htm

Posted by: Janet at June 4, 2009 11:19 PM


Night all... God bless.

Posted by: Janet at June 4, 2009 11:22 PM


Yes. We all have to board the crazy bandwagon!

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 11:22 PM


G -nite all.

Posted by: heather at June 4, 2009 11:27 PM


Did anyone else read that LA Times article on Hern? Totally demonized the pro life activists and made Hern a saint.

Of course, the Times is another liberal rag. However its disgusting how one sided the media is on this subject.

Also he's 70 and Carhart is almost that age. Within a few years they will retire, and I dont think there is going to be a rush of anyone else willing to learn this heinous procedure. Maybe late term abortions will eventually end just because there will be no one else willing to do them.

Posted by: Joanne at June 4, 2009 11:28 PM


I watched the video. What a buffoon! It it any wonder why only about 6 people watch his show?

Posted by: Joanne at June 4, 2009 11:45 PM


Keith obviously hasn't really read Jill's blog. lol!!

Also, Keith also called us (Jill's readers) grade-A wackos and terrorists. This is even more hilarious!!

It's okay to disagree with us. Why is it okay to openly attack our character? Who made him God? :)

Posted by: segamon at June 4, 2009 11:58 PM


Jill, this is an amazing honor. Keep it up. I am quite proud.

Posted by: Chris McNeil at June 5, 2009 12:07 AM


re: segamon at June 4, 2009 11:58 PM

Your comments, posted on a blog whose discourse is barely above that of playground name-calling, are quite funny. Its just one of the many posts here that are either feigning ignorance, or actually ignorant. This community asks someone to think of fetuses as you do, but you cannot conceive of how someone might rationally think
that the views expressed here are radical and extreme. And whats more you give only platitudes to counter that perception - only to have one of the usual characters come out with a zinger and knock it way out into right field. Its like a bully who pretends to be an altar boy on sunday. You can wear the Breastplate of Righteousness, but playing dress-up has no baring on real life.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 12:11 AM


It's okay to disagree with us. Why is it okay to openly attack our character? Who made him God? :)
Posted by: segamon at June 4, 2009 11:58 PM

It's ok to openly attack us because he's a leftist. They attempt to intimidate and humiliate in order to get us to shut up.

Abortion is good. Pro life people are bad and nut cases. That's what liberals think.

"Liberalism is a mental disorder." Michael Savage

Posted by: Joanne at June 5, 2009 12:23 AM


YLT,

I notice you have yet to point to a single instance where Jill incites her readers to action.

This is because Jill Stanek, as the grand majority of pro-life advocates, is writing to save lives, not to end them.

The goal of this blog has never been to encourage violence against ANY individual. It has always been to inform. That, and to impress people with the necessity for respect of human life.

When you have men like Carhart, who can't be trusted to manage their facilities in a healthy fashion, performing abortions and getting national media press in a POSITIVE light about it, it is absolutely acceptable on ANY blog forum to expose this!

Are you also going to attack Olbermann and others who have treated Carhart and Hern as heroic for the threat they have posed to women nationwide? After all, these clinics are clearly *not* the picture of sanitation and health. And the liberal media coverage isn't exactly going to hurt business. Furthermore, what about the threat to unborn babies nationwide?

Oh, that's right. They're just masses of tissue. With heartbeats. With life. With unique DNA signatures.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 5, 2009 12:39 AM


re: Joanne at June 5, 2009 12:23 AM

You know Michael Savage isn't his real name - It's really Michael Weiner.... kinda apropo if ya ask me.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 12:40 AM


Yo La,

Nail on the head. Nail on the head. Keep up the good work!

In another section, I tried to reason with a few people the wisdom of making alternatives to abortion the thrust of their movement. However, I was rejected. If you notice, on this site and others, there are nothing but chastizements and political criticisms? My question to all these "pro-lifers" is...ok, abortion is illegal. Now what?

Wait..where ya going?... The babies need food! The babies need medical care. Where's Randal Terry? Where's Operation REscue? Where's Jill Stanek? I thought these people were pro-life?

Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 12:45 AM


re Posted by: Anonymous at June 5, 2009 12:39 AM

You obviously don't read very well. The word "implicit" means "implied"; through the atmosphere on this website, referring to doctors as nazis or likening them to nazis and posting said doctors faces and information... it creates an implicit call to action. You'd kill hitler, right? I think most people would. So in the right frame of mind some reader might think that it is justified to take action against a doctor.
Disclaimers and monday morning quarterbacking aside, some people here are downright scary. It's ironic, but even if I knew some people here in real life, I doubt I would trust my kids with them.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 12:51 AM


Anonymous said: "This is because Jill Stanek, as the grand majority of pro-life advocates, is writing to save lives, not to end them."

Really? How many lives would be saved if all people had healthcare coverage? I know they are just post-birth fetuses or "...just masses of tissue. With heartbeats. With life. With unique DNA signatures..." that actually walk, talk and live and breath outside of the womb, but are they not worthy of such lofty respect?

Oh, that's right! Liberalism is a mental disorder. ...where's my medicine?

Posted by: soonerman at June 5, 2009 12:52 AM


Didn't Olbermann also demonize Hillary Clinton during the campaign because she said something against Obama, Keith's anointed one?

And Hillary became Secretary of State!

This can only mean very, very good things for you Jill. I predict you will be Sarah Palin's running mate in 2012. Now watch Olbermann pop a vein at the thought of that, ha, ha, ha!

It's like the world said, "Keith Olbermann, what a nut case, let's put Hillary in charge of whirled peas". Either that or Olbermann was right about Hillary and Obama is afraid of the paper shredding duo and put her where he can keep an eye on her.

I mean didn't Michael Corleone say, "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer"?

Olbermann, you're just too easy to figure out. People without principles always are.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 12:56 AM


Sarah and Jill '12!! I like that idea! The only thing is, how do you fly a plane held together with only right wingnuts? Hey, if you want 8 years of Obama, go right ahead. Maybe by that time another of Sarah's kids will be knocked up and paraded through the media.... and the name of that kid....Slapshot Palin!! I can see it now!

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 1:01 AM


Hisman says (paraphrased): People w/o principles are easy to figure out."

I guess that's why you guys agree with the likes of Coulter and Falefal Bill..

Now, those two are definitely pricipled.

Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 1:01 AM


The pro-aborts are are riled up because they think death is a solution to a problem. They are all paranoid because that's how they would handle it if they were us.

Posted by: Keith (no not that one) at June 5, 2009 1:11 AM


"Yo La,

Nail on the head. Nail on the head. Keep up the good work!

In another section, I tried to reason with a few people the wisdom of making alternatives to abortion the thrust of their movement. However, I was rejected. If you notice, on this site and others, there are nothing but chastizements and political criticisms? My question to all these "pro-lifers" is...ok, abortion is illegal. Now what?

Wait..where ya going?... The babies need food! The babies need medical care. Where's Randal Terry? Where's Operation REscue? Where's Jill Stanek? I thought these people were pro-life?

Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 12:45 AM"
-------------------------------------

Soonerman:

"Nail in the coffin" is a more apropos euphemism. Nail on the head is what they do during a partial birth abortion.

So your solution is to pronounce death on unborn children because Jill and we pro-lifers don't feed every one, clothe every one, etc., etc.? Sounds very close to Nazism and "The Final Solution", i.e. the slaughter of innocent Jews.

Haven't you ever heard of taking personal responsibility Soonerman? People that get pregnant should have and take care of their children, not kill them.

By the way, Soonerman, did you know that blacks, who make up about one-eighth of the U.S. population, have more than one-third (37 percent) of America's 1.2 million annual abortions. Or how, if you take 37 percent of America's 45 million abortions between 1973 and 2005, you come up with 17 million black children terminated.

Are you a racist Soonerman? I mean you're from Oklahoma aren't you and like all pro-lifers are terrorists aren't all Okies racist?

Mr. Olbermann, you must know these statistics. Where's your outrage Mr. Olbermann, who accuses a white female trying to protect the most innocent of the innocent, black or white or brown, from the likes of a white male like you?

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:15 AM


Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:15 AM

Your constant "hitler" refrain only makes my point louder. Thanks for the reenforcement. By assuming that Soonerman is from Oklahoma you also reenforce the idea that you like to jump to wild conclusions about people...Sadly for you, there is no stereotype about people from oklahoma being racist....poor and native american maybe, but racist...you're firing blanks, man...(BTW: when are you going to change that name...it makes me laugh every time).

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 1:23 AM


Can't you read YLT? It's called sarcasm.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:27 AM


Oklahoma Sooners?

What's your IQ?

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:29 AM


"Haven't you ever heard of taking personal responsibility Soonerman? People that get pregnant should have and take care of their children, not kill them."

Indeed, however, all people don't. So, what are you gonna do about it? Notice, what YOU said..."PERSONAL" responsibility. Now, you come along and make that not Personal but, Hisman's choice. (You will birth the fetus! So, sayeth HIsman). Now, don't you think the fetus (post-uteros) has now become your responsibility also. If you're going to tell people, how to live their lives, better be prepared to assume some responsibility for it.

Racist? Yeah, I'm a racist. I hate the human race. We are all bunch of judgemental, self rightoeous windbags who do not practice what we preach. We have more in common than not but, CHOOSE to focus on our differences. For some reason, we are drawn to conflict.

That's why, on this issue for example, there will never be any common ground or any room for understanding. Hence, it really never gets resolved. You end abortion and Stanek goes away, Operation rescue gone..you..gone. Now, there's a bunch of kids with no homes, mal-nourished and no medical care, like in countries such as Mexico or Brazil..etc. But, I guess as long as the "Pro-Fetus" crowd doesn't see it, it doesn't exist...

All hail the Fetus....cause once it's born, it's just a worthless piece of crap like the rest of us..or just me.

Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 1:35 AM


So YLT:

You're poor and Native American?

Using Soonerman and your logic and applying it to Native Americans, the solution was to exterminate you all because of the bad lives you were all going to have on the rez? Who in God's holy name are you and what made you like this?

You know, you just don't make sense and your continued attempts at trying to defend abortion at all costs, defy all logic, morality, compassion, and dignity.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:37 AM


Yes, Oklahoma Sooners...

My IQ? Well, I am librul and all...so, I'm mentally deranged and such..so, it's probably like a 12 or 13 or something of that nature.

Why do you ask?

Seriously, Hisman, you seemed to be a spiritual man, don't you think that if the main figureheads of the pro-life movement focused more energy on alternatives to abortion versus trying to effect policy, that they would be more successfull. I really think they would but, it seems that that idea just gets re-buffed here.

Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 1:41 AM


You know, you just don't make sense and your continued attempts at trying to defend abortion at all costs, defy all logic, morality, compassion, and dignity.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:37 AM


For your logic to be defied it first must be applied. Sadly your leap of assumptions, about me, and about Sopnerman - combined with your tangental jump into the idea that I'm a poor native american person (rather than a person who has friends that are from the Sooner State) leave no room for any logic... just hot air.

All this jumping off cliffs of assumption without a parachute seems to have caused some damage to the 'ol noggin. Take it easy, buddy!

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 1:43 AM


""Haven't you ever heard of taking personal responsibility Soonerman? People that get pregnant should have and take care of their children, not kill them."

Indeed, however, all people don't. So, what are you gonna do about it? Notice, what YOU said..."PERSONAL" responsibility. Now, you come along and make that not Personal but, Hisman's choice. (You will birth the fetus! So, sayeth HIsman). Now, don't you think the fetus (post-uteros) has now become your responsibility also. If you're going to tell people, how to live their lives, better be prepared to assume some responsibility for it.

Racist? Yeah, I'm a racist. I hate the human race. We are all bunch of judgemental, self rightoeous windbags who do not practice what we preach. We have more in common than not but, CHOOSE to focus on our differences. For some reason, we are drawn to conflict.

That's why, on this issue for example, there will never be any common ground or any room for understanding. Hence, it really never gets resolved. You end abortion and Stanek goes away, Operation rescue gone..you..gone. Now, there's a bunch of kids with no homes, mal-nourished and no medical care, like in countries such as Mexico or Brazil..etc. But, I guess as long as the "Pro-Fetus" crowd doesn't see it, it doesn't exist...

All hail the Fetus....cause once it's born, it's just a worthless piece of crap like the rest of us..or just me.

Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 1:35 AM"
----------------------------------------

Actually Soonerman, your comment is EXACTLY the Liberal viewpoint and exactly why I can, in all confidence, call it a mental disorder.

Thanks Olbermann for drawing attention to Jill. Perhaps we'll get a few more point bounce on Americans who are now pro-life when they read the absolute crazy rants of Soonerman and YLT.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:43 AM


"Sadly for you, there is no stereotype about people from oklahoma being racist....poor and native american maybe, but racist...you're firing blanks, man...(BTW: when are you going to change that name...it makes me laugh every time).

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 1:23 AM"
--------------------------

If I diagram this sentence properly using English I learned in second grade class, you're stating that your a native american....

Oh, I know, I'm supposed to "feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel" what you say and not read the words.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:50 AM


"For your logic to be defied it first must be applied.............

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 1:43 AM
--------------------------------

Profound.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:54 AM


If pro-lifers are such wackos in general, why is this the first abortionist murder in ten years? Can you imagine if there was only one person killed by a terrorist in ten years?

Of course I don't think Tiller's killing was ok. Its just time for some perspective. And time to call the bluff on outraged pro-choicers who can't even produce more than three doctors nation-wide.

Posted by: Mary Ann, Singing Mum at June 5, 2009 1:56 AM


I'll frame my comments in a way that you can appreciate HisMan.

Thank God for that mental disorder less toxins and poison would be running rampant through our water and air and that would cause the miscarriage of A LOT of fetuses!

Thank God for that mental disorder less worker safety would not even exist and a lot of fetuses would be w/o fathers and mothers (oops! Scratched that! no liberals. No women work!) so, just fathers.

Thank God for that mental disorder less lots of poor fetus carriers would not have access to medical care thereby jeopardizing the life of the sacred fetus.

Thank God for that mental disorder less I would still be considered 1/3 of a human and property. That's not so bad. After all, I'm just a pro-murdere. However, the fetuses with the same skin color as me..gasp!

Yes, thank God for that mental disorder indeed! I'm glad that's one mental disorder that I have and others have had before me. It's made more lives better. Oh! I know! Post-utero lives don't count! nvm...

Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 1:56 AM


Hisman said: "If I diagram this sentence properly using English I learned in second grade class, you're stating that your a native american...."

Yo La, don't you love Karma?

Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 1:59 AM


"You end abortion and Stanek goes away, Operation rescue gone..you..gone. Now, there's a bunch of kids with no homes, mal-nourished and no medical care, like in countries such as Mexico or Brazil..etc. But, I guess as long as the "Pro-Fetus" crowd doesn't see it, it doesn't exist...

All hail the Fetus....cause once it's born, it's just a worthless piece of crap like the rest of us..or just me.

Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 1:35 AM""
---------------------------------

Actually Soonerman, if abortion were made illegal and we restored the culture of life, God would again return his hand of grace on this country.

My beloved Sicilian gramma put it this way: "Every baby comes with a loaf of bread".

When we as individuals and as a nation seek to do things God's way, which is to trust Him and, even in difficult pregnancies, not terminate the intent of His will, God again will restore and shed His grace on us all.

If we don't stop abortion we are all headed for a hell hole. A just God cannot withhold judgment from a country that has initiated and led the world into legal infanticide.

I pray daily that God restrain and withhold the coming judgment because I love innocent children, I love my family, and yes I love even people like you who have been deceived by the culture of death.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 2:04 AM


"I'll frame my comments in a way that you can appreciate HisMan.

Thank God for that mental disorder less toxins and poison would be running rampant through our water and air and that would cause the miscarriage of A LOT of fetuses!

Thank God for that mental disorder less worker safety would not even exist and a lot of fetuses would be w/o fathers and mothers (oops! Scratched that! no liberals. No women work!) so, just fathers.

Thank God for that mental disorder less lots of poor fetus carriers would not have access to medical care thereby jeopardizing the life of the sacred fetus.

Thank God for that mental disorder less I would still be considered 1/3 of a human and property. That's not so bad. After all, I'm just a pro-murdere. However, the fetuses with the same skin color as me..gasp!

Yes, thank God for that mental disorder indeed! I'm glad that's one mental disorder that I have and others have had before me. It's made more lives better. Oh! I know! Post-utero lives don't count! nvm...

Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 1:56 AM"

-------------------------------------

Soonerman:

God's solution to every problem is a person.

To end Nazism, God sent the American GI.

To end rampant death by bacterial infection God sent Louis Pasteur.

To end slavery, God sent Abraham Lincoln.

To save us from our sin God sent His only Son Jesus Christ.

Ad infinitum.

And what is Satan's solution? To kill all of God's problem solvers because very simply, Satan hates all of us.

Since 1973, in this country alone, we have rejected 50,000,000 of those gifts that God sent, and more than 1.2 billion into the whole world, all made in his Image and Likeness.

Perhaps a scientist that would have come up with a cure for cancer.

Perhaps a botanist that figured out how to grow mega crops that would feed the world.

Perhaps a physicist that discovered how to harness and control gravity that would cause us to be able to visit other galaxies.

I guess now we'll never know.

Yes, abortion is Satan's attempt at killing God himself.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 2:20 AM


Oh, that's right! Liberalism is a mental disorder. ...where's my medicine?
Posted by: soonerman at June 5, 2009 12:52 AM

I dont know.... but please find it soon!

Posted by: Joanne at June 5, 2009 2:47 AM


Jill, I just love you! Your post made me laugh out loud. It's just so funny how much liberals have to lie in order to even try to discredit you (or anyone conservative)! I'm glad that you have such a positive and hilarious attitude about it all. :)

Posted by: Bethany at June 5, 2009 4:01 AM


I'd like to nominate Keith Olbermann for the "worst liar in the world" award. And "most pitied person in the world".

Posted by: Bethany at June 5, 2009 4:08 AM


YLT, how does it feel knowing you're on a side that MUST lie in order to discredit the other side? What do you think about the fact that Keith blatantly lied about Jill?
I'm curious about your thoughts on that. What? Aren't there any true things he could have said to discredit her?

Posted by: Bethany at June 5, 2009 4:17 AM


Wow. This is actually a bit coincidental. I just mentioned Obie and his stupid award in another thread. Should a schizophrenic come after you because he believes that you are, literally, the worst person in the world, we can place 100% of the the blame on Obie.

It's great using liberal's airtight logic against them.

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 4:35 AM


It's great using liberal's airtight logic against them

Lauren, LMBO. :)

Posted by: Bethany at June 5, 2009 4:55 AM


Jill, you're in good company. KO has named Bill O'Reilly Worst Person in the World, too.

Posted by: Luana at June 5, 2009 4:58 AM


How are you feeling, Bethany?

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 5:06 AM


"God's solution to every problem is a person."

HisMan, I love this and it is so true.

Posted by: Luana at June 5, 2009 5:07 AM


Lauren, thanks for asking! Not really great at the moment, but I took a lortab and should be feeling better in about 30 minutes, hopefully. I have been sleeping so much during the day this week that I woke up at 4:30 this morning and wasn't tired at all. Just a bit sore! I'm sure that within a week things should be better.
I hope things are going well with you! :)

Posted by: Bethany at June 5, 2009 5:19 AM


Oh and I lost 6 pounds! A very nice side effect to my soup diet this week.

Posted by: Bethany at June 5, 2009 5:21 AM


I hope the medicine kicks in quickly! I woke up about 4:30 as well. I'm praying for you. :)

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 5:21 AM


Thank you so much, Lauren. I really do appreciate it.

Posted by: Bethany at June 5, 2009 5:30 AM


From the looks of Carhart's place it was originally an auto garage. The mural of the car is actually dark bricks, it appears they were put in place during construction.

The video surveillance, huge vapor lamps and dish antenna betray that there's something important inside the building.

I think HisMan is right - this thing needs a serious inspection, because it's violating numerous federal statutes.

Love the classic wooden stairs with no tread grips.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at June 5, 2009 5:54 AM


Seriously, Hisman, you seemed to be a spiritual man, don't you think that if the main figureheads of the pro-life movement focused more energy on alternatives to abortion versus trying to effect policy, that they would be more successfull. I really think they would but, it seems that that idea just gets re-buffed here.
Posted by: Soonerman at June 5, 2009 1:41 AM

really? There are tons of alternatives to abortion for women with difficult pregnancies.
Many prolife organizations offer women considerable help with continuing their pregnancy. And there are organizations that work solely with women in this situation.
You are asking this question to the wrong people. What options do proaborts offer? Their choice is limited to dicing and chopping at 4 months or dicing and chopping at 8 months.
We need to work on both options: helping women now AND changing attitudes and policy.

Posted by: angel at June 5, 2009 6:26 AM


As I currently see it, given the events with Tiller, Keith Olberman is actually inciting violence against Jill Stanek.

At a time when the meaning and value of human lives needs to be discussed civilly, Olberman takes the very low road.

It's a fairly sad commentary on the state of discourse in the United States that people even pay attention to this guy.

I really don't get it.

Is it the amusement factor?

Or is it like watching something horrible you can stop watching?

Maybe it's reality TV for zombies?

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at June 5, 2009 6:47 AM


Jill,
You do indeed have to share your award with all of us crazies!!! I can hardly contain the joy!! :)

Posted by: Carla at June 5, 2009 7:05 AM


Yay Jill!!!

"Blessed are ye, when they shall...speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in Heaven"

Posted by: Germaine at June 5, 2009 7:37 AM


YLT,
You were just called crazy by KO. How does that make you feel?

Posted by: Carla at June 5, 2009 7:45 AM


T, please explain to me exactly why Jill is a terrorist and what she has possibly done to warrent arrest?

Was it when she devoted her life to helping people by being a nurse?

What about when she held a dying baby and realized that a monstrosity was occuring at her hospital and she blew the whistle?

When she testified before congress?

When she worked tirelessly to fight for the preborn or newly born chidren?

Maybe it was when she posted the post condemning Tiller's murder and stating without condition that she did not support abortion violence in any way?

Oh, right, she's a terrorist for reporting on the same story that everyone else has been running all week. Gotcha.

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 7:53 AM


I'd never even heard of Odor-man until I came to this site. Who watches this moron? Bill Maher's rejects? What channel is he on?...anyway, did you ever notice how angry he gets while putting the 3-4 picks down? EEEEWWWW, Elizabeth Hasselbeck! How original. I think I've heard every joke known to man about the poor thing. Someone ought to tell this classless moron that his material is dated!

Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 8:00 AM


The T is for troll.

Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 8:03 AM


Keith, you forgot Sarah Palin in your rant!

Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 8:05 AM


I love it.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you , then they fight you and then YOU WIN!

Out them all! They are losing.

Posted by: Maria at June 5, 2009 8:16 AM


T:

Is T for Terrorist or Tattletale?

Get a life will ya.

No I mean, save a life.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 8:27 AM


What a skanky guy! Never seen him before and hope to never have to watch anything he liberalizes about again.

Wow, I am craaazy - good to hear this from a craaazy that gets paid for being so...oookay.

He calls Hasselback a liar, and those listening to her swallowers of whatever she says, which is so unlike what liberals do - so proven as he LIES about your posting addresses, and ALSO calling you complicit to G. Tiller's murder (oh look - I can call it truthfully what it was - unlike abortionists calling abortion anything but...) or that you will be IF anything were to happen to the other *Mengeles* willing to perform PBA's. How about he IS complicit in even suggesting such a thing!

He also claims that women ONLY( my emphasis) seek partial birth abortions when their lives are in DANGER. 60 THOUSAND women had partial birth abortions via Tiller because their lives were endangered? Prove it - Mr. Faux-Journalist!

UGH - anyway, God Bless you,Jill. If "they" hate you - you are truly doing the right thing!

Posted by: elizabethk at June 5, 2009 8:28 AM


I wonder where Olbermann's ontological basis for the concept of "worst" comes from. Presumably it must be some sort of lack of good (a privation), but I wonder where goodness is ontologically grounded in his worldview?

I'm sure the question has never crossed his mind.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at June 5, 2009 9:00 AM


The PCers are really becoming rabid. If they were so sure that victory was their's (like they try to imply),then they wouldn't have to lie, falsely accuse and try to silence those with pro-life views. They can't provide a reasonable or logical argument to support their views so they lie and attempt to intimidate and pull out their old, tired, baseless arguments. Notice how they have said nothing about the deplorable conditions of Carhart's "clinic". They don't care about women and children. All they care about is "choice" without thinking about what goes on before or after in another human being's life. I personally know of plenty of pro-life people who also assist women and children after the babies are born. May I ask what you have done for those in need lately? Or do you just want to leave it up to the gov't?

Posted by: Eileen #2 at June 5, 2009 9:11 AM


I have emailed the Keith Olbermann show and asked them to correct the misinformation about Jill posting the clinic addresses.

Of course, I find it humorous that posters on this site are on their high horse about Olbermann "lying" when Jill intentionally continues to flog a completely ludicrous and unsupported allegation that President Obama admitted on tape to supporting infanticide. Olbermann is guilty of grossly sloppy journalism.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 9:14 AM


And I meant to end by saying but I don't think he is intentionally lying.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 9:15 AM


Eileen #2,

Prochoice writer Ann Friedman wrote about the deplorable appearance of Dr. Carhart's clinic 2 YEARS ago:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_real_estate_of_abortion_politics

I think prochoicers SHOULD be talking about it. It helps our side, not yours. It is your side that tries to force abortion clinics out of respectable neighbords, increase operating costs by passing regulations specifically designed for the purpose of burdening abortion clinics, bring expensive lawsuits against abortion providers, and prohibit abortion clinics from receiving funding that other medical facilities get.

Look, you know, and I know, and we both know that if Dr. Carhart had a beautiful clinic, you would hold that against him too. You would use it as evidence that he is making a huge profit, or that he is trying to lure women in to have abortions.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 9:24 AM


Pro-choicer, you've have you ever actually listened to the tape?

Obama says that calling in a second doctor would put a hardship on the woman's original decision to have an abortion.

If you want a dead baby, you get a dead baby...even if it means a post-birth abortion.

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 9:26 AM


Anon -- No, you are not winning. Have you heard about the most recent poll -- more people consider themselves to be Pro-life. Unfortunately in regard to the last election, people misguidedly voted on issues of the economy and the war. You are substantiating my earlier point in regard to your implication: "it's a very scary time for the pro choice. Well, maybe if you are a doctor performing abortions." -- the pro-choicers have to falsely paint every pro-life person as a terrorist in order to try and shut down the pro-life movement.

Posted by: Eileen #2 at June 5, 2009 9:30 AM


I think this is another semantic issue. I would consider infanticide the direct killing of an infant. What Obama supported, however, is what we might call passive infanticide; that is, simply allowing a baby who survives abortion to die. You don't kill the baby directly, you simply allow it to die. Can we agree that he supported passive infanticide?

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at June 5, 2009 9:34 AM


Lauren,

I listened to the tape and saw the part Jill highlighted in the transcript.

And yes, he was certainly clear that the proposed statute could burden the woman's original decision to have an abortion. But that does NOT mean he was saying that a live-born baby should be deprived of medical care. What he means is that the requirements of the bill might make a doctor more reluctant to provide the abortion in the first place, or it might make it more expensive and difficult for her to get the abortion. He is talking about a burden on the woman's original decision AT THE TIME SHE MAKES the decision. He is not saying the baby should be killed or deprived of care AFTER it is born alive.

Lawyers (and Obama is one after) often look at statutes in this light. We often ask wheter certain statutes "chill" a person's excercise of a constitutionally protected right. That's the kind of analysis Obama was doing here. He was NOT, repeat NOT, advocating that a baby be killed or deprived of care.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 9:40 AM


Prochoicer, but he was. He claimed that he would have supported the bill had it been identical to the federal version. It was. Verbatim.

He had absolutely no excuse to oppose the bill as it was worded in HIS committe.

His own campaign admitted that he "misspoke" when he called NRL "liars" regarding this point.

There is no defense.

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 9:44 AM


I've been lurking on this site for sometime, but I'm gonna chime in on this one.

Olberman was terrible on Sports Center and he's just as bad on Countdown to no ratings. I guess that is to be expected from an individual that attended a "Cow College", he's clearly not qualified to be a journalist, if anything he should be hosting a "Farmers Weekly" show!

Jill to quote Winston Churchill "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."

Keep up the good work!

Posted by: 31 Roses at June 5, 2009 9:44 AM


And all this time I thought there was no bigger moron than Whoopi Goldberg. Thanks for reminding us that it's Keith Olberman.

GO JILL !!!

Posted by: Mike at June 5, 2009 9:52 AM


Lauren,

Yeah, that doesn't mean he is in favor of infanticide. It means he didn't support a bill he said he was going to support.

I am not really an Obama person. But, at the risk of sounding rude, I honestly think it is absolutely crazy to believe that the President of the United States supports the notion of withholding medical care from live babies.

You may not agree with his analysis of the statutes, or the state of the prior law, or whether he was did enough to protect born alive babies, but there is absolutely no way on God's green earth that the President believes it is appropriate to kill born live infants either actively or passively.

Bobby -- my paisan! I guess I responded to your question in my responses to Lauren. (Sorry, as a person of the Eye-talian persuasion, I couldn't resist. I love the name Bobby Bambino.)

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 9:54 AM


Of course, I find it humorous that posters on this site are on their high horse about Olbermann "lying" when Jill intentionally continues to flog a completely ludicrous and unsupported allegation that President Obama admitted on tape to supporting infanticide. Olbermann is guilty of grossly sloppy journalism.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 9:14 AM
------

You're alleging Jill is wrong.

You must prove that there will never be the case where a medical professional hired to kill the child will turn around and despite medical malpractice will make serious efforts to keep that child alive.

Would you be willing to bet your life on such an assertion, despite the serious conflict of interest?

Here - read A Born Alive Parable

http://www.thrufire.com/blog/2009/05/a-born-alive-parable/

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at June 5, 2009 10:03 AM


Anonymous, pick a name.
Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 9:52 AM
************************

Anonymous HAS a name... it's "asitis." She's been banned but can't seem to stay away, and continues to come back under many names. This time, it's anonymous.

Posted by: Kel at June 5, 2009 10:07 AM


Prochoicer, that is exactly what he did. He looked at Jill and said, essentially, "so what?"

He doesn't care that these children were living, breathing children. All he cares about is that the mother wanted a dead child and by Generic God As You Understand him, that is what she is going to get.

His only explanation is that it is better for a child to suffocate to death slowly because it's tiny lungs can't take in enough air, than for a woman to have to see another doctor.

Anyway you slice it, that's pretty ice cold.

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 10:08 AM


"Bobby -- my paisan! I guess I responded to your question in my responses to Lauren. (Sorry, as a person of the Eye-talian persuasion, I couldn't resist. I love the name Bobby Bambino.)"

Hehe. Even though it isn't my real name, I come from a long line of Italians, so it's all good.

"but there is absolutely no way on God's green earth that the President believes it is appropriate to kill born live infants either actively or passively."

I get what you're saying here, and it is absurd to think that we have a president who would support such a thing. Maybe if we were to ask him flat out right now he would say no, which would be good. But really, this is where the mainstream thinking is headed; that is, towards infanticide. I'm sure you're farmiliar with Professor Peter Singer of Princeton and guys like Michael Tooley who openly support killing born babies. Singer is the CHAIR of the ETHICS department at the most prestigious university in the US and he supports the killing of BORN disabled infants, and perhaps non0diabled infants. Again, who would have thought? It's almost more absurd to think that an ETHICIST thinks this way.

So while I do sympathize with the idea that intuitively, there would be no way that the leader of this country could support the killing of born peoples, it really does not function as a reductio ad absurdum anymore like it would have 20 or 30 years ago.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at June 5, 2009 10:10 AM


prochoicer- I would like to say thanks for the letter on Jill's behalf. Of course, you realize that you'll probably be Olbie's next "Worst Person,"right?

"Tonight's WPINW...prochoicer! The gall, she actually wrote to me saying that I was mistaken about last nights WPINW, Jill Stanek. How could she. She supports terrorists. And she calls herself prochoice. She's the WPINW!"

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 10:18 AM


Another video Olberman

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/steven-crowder/2009/06/05/when-keith-olbermann-attacks

Keith is on tv with an anti social style that no one would have imagined even 5 years ago.

Posted by: xppc at June 5, 2009 10:20 AM


LAFFIN!!!!!!!!

Jill, having Keith-the-Cathtrated hating you is even better status than a front page splash.. Hilarious!

Posted by: pharmer at June 5, 2009 10:21 AM


Bobby,

I think if we are heading in that direction, the justification would have nothing to do with abortion. It would have to do with euthanasia, which is a completely different set of issues.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 10:27 AM


Lauren,

Your post made me laugh! (I wrote to Olbermann under my real name, though I did identify myself as pro-choice.)

I think I would rather have O'Reilly call me a pinhead.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 10:30 AM


Prochoicer, how do you feel about euthanasia?

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 10:35 AM


31 roses, great point!

Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 10:45 AM


Lauren,

I am not as familiar with the arguments (pro or con) on euthanasia, so this is a bit off-the-cuff.

But it seems to me that if euthanasia is to be supported it must be based on the principle of "my body, my choice." I totally respect a person's desire to choose when to die, particularly when faced with racking pain and deterioration. On the other hand, I think the risk of coercion is much greater when you are dealing with feeble, dying people who may be posing a great expense to their relatives. That's a huge concern. I can also see why determining the intent of a person who is unconscious may be tricky -- but once properly determined, I think, that person's intent should be respected. This is why living wills and such are so important (though I am embarrassed to say, I do not have one, a lapse I must fix!)

The notions of choice and bodily autonomy do not apply to a newborn infant, and therefore, I believe that all efforts should be made to save a newborn baby, or any other infant or child.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 10:57 AM


Yipes there were a couple responses I missed above on the Obama thing. First I will address Chris's comment:

You're alleging Jill is wrong.

You must prove that there will never be the case where a medical professional hired to kill the child will turn around and despite medical malpractice will make serious efforts to keep that child alive.

Would you be willing to bet your life on such an assertion, despite the serious conflict of interest?

I don't think I have to prove that no medical practitioner would ever withhold medical care from a child in order to cover malpractice. That is not the issue I am addressing.

I am refuting the allegation that Obama believes it appropriate to withhold medical care from a live child. I do not believe he said (or believes) any such thing.


Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 11:06 AM


Aaargh. The italics never seem to work right on this blog, at least not for me. The whole part down to "conflict of interest" was meant to be in italics to show I was quoting Chris.

Lauren, I do not believe that Obama was saying that children should be deprived of medical care just so a woman wouldn't have to see another doctor. He, in fact, said that he believed the law, not to mention the ethics of the medical profession, already required the doctors to provide the necessary care to a born alive infant. He is not saying it is okay for born alive infants to be deprived of medical care; he is saying that the statute would make it harder for women to get abortions in the first place.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 11:12 AM


PC 9:24am

Please. Don't you think the man would at least have electricity?
Forced out of respectable neighborhoods by us? Maybe its the residents and office owners that don't want him around.

Or maybe Carhart wants more money for himself and has to scrimp and save somehow.

Hold Carhart responsible for the depolorable conditions your local kennel would be closed down for.

If he can't provide "services" in a clean, safe environment then he should be concerned enough about the safety and well being of his patients to close it down.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 11:12 AM


prochoicer, a good blog from the anti-euthenasia perspective is www.wesleyjsmith.com

He's an ethicist who's written several books on the matter.

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 11:15 AM


"I think this is another semantic issue. I would consider infanticide the direct killing of an infant. What Obama supported, however, is what we might call passive infanticide; that is, simply allowing a baby who survives abortion to die. You don't kill the baby directly, you simply allow it to die. Can we agree that he supported passive infanticide?"

Bobby,
That's much too mild a term in my book. Perhaps one could call it "passive-aggressive" infanticide. No..... But then again, why worry our little minds? Kmiec suggests we should move beyond such silly arguments. Let's do that and go out and save some trees. (Am I being passive aggressive or sarcastic?)

Seriously, if we try to find common ground on semantics, aren't we falling into the same trap as in the '70's when abortion was renamed "CHOICE"?

Personally, I'd like to boycott the phrase "common ground". It sounds "nice" and non-judgmental, but there's little substance behind it.

Posted by: Janet at June 5, 2009 11:15 AM


31 Roses,

"Olberman was terrible on Sports Center and he's just as bad on Countdown to no ratings. I guess that is to be expected from an individual that attended a "Cow College", he's clearly not qualified to be a journalist, if anything he should be hosting a "Farmers Weekly" show!"

So Cornell is a "Cow College"? It's a very good school, right?

Anyways, I just googled him on Wiki. Apparently he and Margaret Sanger grew up in the same town. What are the odds of that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastings-on-Hudson,_New_York

Posted by: Janet at June 5, 2009 11:24 AM


do you know that Olberdork does not drive? He has a limo drive him around.

Posted by: Jasper at June 5, 2009 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- jasper, maybe he flunked the driving quiz. Just like he's flunking in TV land!

Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 11:28 AM


Janet, Olberman didn't go to the Ivy league Cornell, he went to Cornell's state affiliated Agricultural college.

I don't really know how the details work with the Cornell system, but apprantly it's not kosher to say you "Went to Cornell" unless you actually attended the Ivy League college.

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 11:32 AM


Congratulations, Jill. never mind that Olbermann completely ignores how Carhart puts women at risk. And only for the life of the mother? What an idiot.
http://www.lifenews.com/state4197.html

Posted by: Steven Ertelt at June 5, 2009 11:47 AM


I wish that people who don't have their facts straight would just stay mum on the abortion issue. Legalized abortion is killing women, Keith. All you have to do is LOOK at Carhart's death mill. The average person can SEE that it's a creepy place. I wouldn't trust my body in there.

Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 11:53 AM


Henry 11;37AM

Its the computer age. People can find anything they want no help from Jill or anyone else. You were saying something about thinking.

If I, no computer genius, can find the name and phone number of the people occupying my childhood home that I moved out of 40 years ago, any high schooler can find Carhart and Hern.

Hey Henry, what do you think of that soldier being gunned down? I have yet to hear a word of outrage from your side on this murder.
How inconvenient this would happen just as the president was preparing to kill backsides in the Middle East.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 11:58 AM


Hey Jill how do I get one of those cool awards? Here is your new theme song!
t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKqO0FeaCFQ

Posted by: troy newman at June 5, 2009 11:59 AM


Anon 11:59am

I bet you would also argue that all good Muslims or anti war activists condone murdering American soldiers at recruiting centers.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 12:04 PM


Deanna, wow you sure got us. I mean, we denounced Tiller's murderer the second we heard what happened, but you know the *wink* truth.

Let me state this clearly, pro-lifers do not support violence against abortionists in any way.

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 12:04 PM


Correction to my 11:58am poost.
I meant "kiss" not kill backsides in the middle east!

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 12:06 PM


Well come on Deana,

Do all good Muslims and anti-war activists support the murder of the military recruiter?


Henry, what do you think?

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 12:14 PM


Keith Olbermann is far too intelligent for you Bible-thumping fools to understand.

Get out of the stone age already!

Posted by: Jake at June 5, 2009 12:16 PM


I wonder if these trolls are like the mutant that Mystique was in X-Men -- able to shape shift.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at June 5, 2009 12:26 PM


LizFromNebraska at June 5, 2009 12:26 PM


Calling someone a troll or whatever childish label you care to give out is easier than actually refuting charges leveled but much less dignified than just walking away. When you call "troll!!", it tells the world that you got p'owned and don't know what to do about it .... so you sulk and lash out.
Reminds me of my cousin hiding under the table because she didn't want to leave Grandmas house. Yeah, thats about the level of maturity it rises to.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 12:39 PM


Yeah, YLT because Jake's comment was so informative and well thought out. How ever could we argue against such sound logic?

Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 12:43 PM


re: Bethany at June 5, 2009 4:17 AM


Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it a lie. Coming to terms with your wrongness will take time....perhaps you might look to the "stages of grief" for insight. I accept that right now you're firmly in the denial stage. It's okay...Look at Dick Cheney, it's taken him over 5 yrs to acknowledge that iraq and 9/11 have no connection. Progress takes time, but eventually you'll pull your head out of the ground.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 12:48 PM


I have been engaged in sidewalk counseling in front of abortion mills for over 25 years and we give out a flier called "IN THEIR OWN WORDS" which contains quotes by the so called "heroes" of the abortion industry. Read on.....
Abortionist Warren Hern....."During the abortion procedure it is before one's eyes. The sensations of dismemberment flow through the insturments like and electric current."
Abortionist Leroy Carhart....."By grabbing a foot and pulling down on it or by grabbing a knee and pulling down on it, usually you can get one leg out, get the other leg out and bring the rest of the fetus out."
Murderers or heroes? You decide America and hopefully our nation will come to take the side of those too helpless to speak for themselves, the babies.

Posted by: Nora Dougherty at June 5, 2009 12:58 PM


Re Posted by: Lauren at June 5, 2009 11:32 AM - Olbermann's Cornell Degree

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/06/keith-olbermann-ann-coult_n_172438.html


re : Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 11:28 AM

Olbermann has physical challenges that make driving unsafe. Please have some decency.

re: Posted by: Carla at June 5, 2009 7:45 AM

There's a diff. between taking this place seriously and taking it for laughs. I take it for laughs, it's the unhinged majority here that worries me...

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 1:00 PM


Jake:

So you're admitting you'd like to thump Olbermann?

Yuck!

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:13 PM


Deana and Henry,

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 1:24 PM


YLT,

I'll ask you. Do you hold Muslims or the anti-war movement responsible for the killing of the army recruiter as you do PL people for the killing of Tiller?

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 1:27 PM


Let us praise the Lord for our new Saint Jill Stanek

Let us welcome her message and follow her example

Tireless woman doing Gods good work

Posted by: S.K. Richard Perez at June 5, 2009 1:28 PM


Deana, Henry, YLT


Still waiting for an answer folks.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 1:53 PM


YLT,
So you don't care for the word Troll. But unhinged majority describes us??

You make me laugh.

Posted by: Carla at June 5, 2009 2:07 PM


Hi Carla,

Well we may have discovered what will finally make those who hold us and other PL people responsible for Tiller's killing finally see reason. Simply ask them to apply their standard across the board.

Any time a deranged killer strikes, I want to know what racial, ethnic, religious, or political group they are holding responsible. You can't be selective. Somebody other than the shooter must always be blamed.
Fair is fair.

I think that's very fair and reasonable and any time they start in on us concerning Tiller, let's ask them about the soldier who was slain by a Muslim extremist. Who do they blame for that one? Muslims, black Americans, or the anti war movement?

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 2:22 PM


All you have to do is LOOK at Carhart's death mill. The average person can SEE that it's a creepy place. I wouldn't trust my body in there.
Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 11:53 AM

-Great, Heather, so we can count on you to donate funds and work the phones to get this place cleaned up spic and span, up to code with shiny new doorknobs...in the name of women's health and hygeniene, right?

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 2:36 PM


Janet,

"Seriously, if we try to find common ground on semantics, aren't we falling into the same trap as in the '70's when abortion was renamed "CHOICE"?"

Yes, and that was part of my point. If this is really just a semantic issue, then I"ll use whatever word or phrase the PC side would like in order to move on and get at the actual issue. I see SO much engaging in semantics about proper terms and it takes away from an actual substative discussion.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino at June 5, 2009 2:39 PM


Danielle,
Can't Carhart afford to overhaul his auto shop, I mean "women's reproductive health center?"
I doubt that you would find yourself there or bring a friend on Two for One Day.

Posted by: Carla at June 5, 2009 2:46 PM


Mary,
Standard. Double Standard. Whatever. :)

Posted by: Carla at June 5, 2009 2:47 PM


YLT,

First of all, Tiller wasn't Hitler. He didn't have the political clout Hitler had, and it was therefore much more possible to bring Tiller under legal speculation, which is EXACTLY what pro-life groups advocated.

Furthermore, you'll notice that Hitler was never murdered/assassinated/sentenced to death. He committed suicide. If it is so likely that someone would have taken him out, any of us for example, then why did he live until his suicide?

You totally missed the fact that Jill's blog has always been about the sanctity of life, NEVER an encouragement of violence. I have yet to see her incite her readers explicitly or implicitly to violence at all.

Next you're going to try telling us that Jesus was implicitly calling his followers to violence against the Pharisees by overturning tables in the Temple and repeatedly calling them liars and hypocrites.

Your problem, you see, is that you have no leg to stand on. So instead of defending your stance, you attack ours. You are losing, my friend, because ours is RIGHT.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 2:50 PM


Bobby @ 2:39,

"I see SO much engaging in semantics about proper terms and it takes away from an actual substative discussion."

I can certainly relate to that! The more intelligent the discussion, the better! Thanks for all you do for LIFE! You raise the bar for the rest of us!


Posted by: Janet at June 5, 2009 2:58 PM


MaryRose,
Amen!

* * *
Carla,
But "unhinged majority" describes us??

LOL. I sometimes feel "unhinged", but I think YLT must have been thinking of the wood fence posts around Carhart's barn, not us PL'rs. :)

Posted by: Janet at June 5, 2009 3:05 PM


Can't Carhart afford to overhaul his auto shop, I mean "women's reproductive health center?"
I doubt that you would find yourself there or bring a friend on Two for One Day.
Posted by: Carla at June 5, 2009 2:46 PM

-Hmmm, you have a point...maybe he can't afford to. Looks like it's time to whip out the checkbook again.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 3:07 PM


-Great, Heather, so we can count on you to donate funds and work the phones to get this place cleaned up spic and span, up to code with shiny new doorknobs...in the name of women's health and hygeniene, right?
Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 2:36 PM

Hmmm, I thought it was the pro-choicers who cared about women's health and hygiene to begin with...I guess not. You don't see CPC's and similar prolife centers looking like Carhart's!

Posted by: Eileen #2 at June 5, 2009 3:11 PM


Hmmm, I thought it was the pro-choicers who cared about women's health and hygiene to begin with...I guess not. You don't see CPC's and similar prolife centers looking like Carhart's!
Posted by: Eileen #2 at June 5, 2009 3:11 PM

-Great! Adding Eileen to the list of concerned women who will ensure that this clinic is spruced up for the sake of it's patients.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 3:13 PM


Danielle,

WE should open our checkbooks? You folks on the PC side aren't exactly destitute.

Let's see, Planned Parenthood could donate a million or two. How about some of the PC Hollywood hobnobs. They're worth millions Certainly the Kennedy family. Multi billionaire Warren Buffet has said he will donate the bulk of his fortune to the abortion supporting (Bill) Gates Foundation. Soooo, there's certainly no shortage of wealthy donors on your side.

Carhart can't afford to upgrade? If your local kennel owner "can't afford" to upgrade or meet regulations or standards he/she closes down, period. I'm sure you would consider it inhumane for this person to open a kennel they could not properly maintain.
I would hope you'd hold an abortion clinic owner to the same standard you would a dog kennel.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 3:20 PM


I'm sure Carhart is a $$$$$-ilionaire.


No, I am sure Eileen will be giving $ to a CPC so that 19 year old "Jen" will be able to carry to term and still finish college. Or so that 16 year old "Christy" won't get kicked out of her parents house.

Dentist's office: No one would go there
Animal Clinic: PETA would protest it and get it shut down
Death Mill: What? Oh, he's a contribut to society.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at June 5, 2009 3:26 PM


Olbermann's show will be gone by the end of the year.

Posted by: Dred Scott at June 5, 2009 3:27 PM


Danielle --

There is a really lousy looking oil change place near my house --- can you write them a check -- I'm sure they will appreciate it. Getting a check is all they want -- just like Carhart.

Carhart runs a business in that sty. How he attends to the structure it is an obvious signal of how he really 'attends' to his 'patients'.

I wouldn't take a sick dog to a vet's office that looked like this.


Posted by: LB at June 5, 2009 3:29 PM


WE should open our checkbooks? You folks on the PC side aren't exactly destitute.
Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 3:20 PM

-You are correct there, Mary. There is some money on the PC side from time to time. However, you and many others on the board seem very, very concerned about the state of affairs at this clinic. You seem sincerely in your worries over building codes, cleanliness, sanitation, etc. And we all, after all, support women, don't we? We don't want to see women travelling all this way to be sent into a....'kennel' as you alluded to above...do we??

So, let's all pitch in! What does it matter if someone else with more money with more money is also helping? How demoralizing - your $5 can be just as valuable! It's the Christian thing to do, isn't it?? Helping women in need? Making sure that just because its women's clinic, that shouldn't mean that its patients should sit in squalor and not get the same level of care that one would recieve at say, a hospital, right? Or, even a CPC! We wouldn't want that, would we? So let's help them out, yes?

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 3:30 PM


Liz,

Good point. Can anyone show us how Carhart is destitute? As I said Liz, if any of us ran a business like a bakery, beauty salon, or a dog grooming business, and could not maintain state mandated standards, we'd just be SOL. Our businesses would be closed down. If anything we we would fined for running the business! So much for getting any sympathy.

I think it far more likely Carhart doesn't give a damn and neither apparently does anyone else.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 3:33 PM


Danielle,

W.O.W. You are seriously coming on here and suggesting prolifers donate to Carhart's organization?

That's like telling PETA to donate to a animal testing facility because they're not up to code.

Except we're talking about people. And there are minimum 2 victims in every abortion.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 3:42 PM


Danielle,

There's money on the PC side from time to time?
When was the last time you saw Bill Gates or Warren Buffet at the Welfare Office?

Yes I am sincere in my concern that this place be closed down all together, not only because of the dump it is but what goes on in it, the killing of babies.

CPC's truly help women in need and they are the ones that depend solely on donations, mainly by PL people. Somehow we can manage to provide services to clients in buildings that meet code and that even have electricity and running water.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 3:43 PM


W.O.W. You are seriously coming on here and suggesting prolifers donate to Carhart's organization?
Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 3:42 PM

-Thank you. I was wondering how long it would take to get down to brass tacks.

Naturally, I have no expectation that anyone on this board would consider donating money to Carhart. I'm being sarcastic with you, obviously. I'm calling out the fake outrage on the 'state' of the clinic.

Just speak plainly. Someone else said it above - it wouldn't matter if this place was in the shape it's in now, or if it were a state of the art, futuristic medical wing at Cedars Sinai. You just want it shut down. It doesn't matter who what why when or where. Just. Say. That.

Don't dress it up in terms of 'we should call the state operator to look into the building code'. I'd have a lot more respect for you if you just said, 'I want this shut down because it's abortion clinic. Period. I don't care how or why it happens.' And just be done with it.

Spare me the faux pearl-clutching on the ramshackle conditions.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 3:52 PM


Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 12:51 AM said "You obviously don't read very well. The word "implicit" means "implied"; through the atmosphere on this website, referring to doctors as nazis or likening them to nazis and posting said doctors faces and information... it creates an implicit call to action. You'd kill hitler, right? I think most people would. So in the right frame of mind some reader might think that it is justified to take action against a doctor."


````````````

Hi YLT,

So you actually believe any reference to Hitler is actually an implicit call to murder? Please share all your postings over the last 8 years on all the websites stating Bush = Hitler warning them that was an implicit call to murder the President. ...crickets chirping... Thought so.

Let me share with you an alternate hypothesis. I like to call "reality". Statements saying Bush = Hitler and abortion docter = Hitler are POLITICAL statements and not implicit calls to murder. Just try to consider that possibility.

Cheers,

LSJ

Posted by: LoneStarJeffe at June 5, 2009 3:59 PM


I want this place shut down because it's an abortion clinic. Period.

In the mean time I am sure, Danielle, you could whip up some curtains, spread some fake plants around,and throw out the welcome mat! A little paint, a little primer and it would be just ship-shape!! I would leave the tow truck though. It screams "I Will Help You!!"

Posted by: Carla at June 5, 2009 4:01 PM


Danielle,

Sure we would like it shut down no matter what. I don't think anyone here has been unclear about that.

The outrage is that he is *legally* allowed to operate under these conditions. Jill is exposing the truth of the nature of this man's operation. Meanwhile, the liberal pro-abort media is treating him like a hero for wanting to continue Tiller's work.

So we're exposing him for what he is. So we're disgusted by the state of his building. He might have a pinprick of dignity on which to stand if he kept his "clinic" maintained properly. However, as you've seen, he hasn't.

Yes, we're cynical of all abortion providers. If you don't value life, what is the likelihood that you're going to value the health and safety of your patients?

Groups like Rachel's Vineyard do more good for Carhart's patients than he has ever done. We ARE concerned for the safety and well-being of these women.

There is a common argument among pro-choicers that illegalizing abortion would create unsafe conditions for the mother; back alley abortions would run rampant. These photos prove that illegalizing abortion isn't necessary for that to happen.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 4:02 PM


Posted by: Carla at June 5, 2009 4:01 PM:

"I want this place shut down because it's an abortion clinic. Period."

-Thank you for your honesty.

"In the mean time I am sure, Danielle, you could whip up some curtains, spread some fake plants around,and throw out the welcome mat! A little paint, a little primer and it would be just ship-shape!! I would leave the tow truck though. It screams "I Will Help You!!""

-Hey, if they asked for some curtains I'm sure I could work a stitch or two. I've got petunias on my balcony...those might be pretty.

I'll pass on the recommendation to keep the tow truck, too. Just in case any trespassers need a reminder on where they can and cannot park.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 4:09 PM


Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 4:02 PM:

"Sure we would like it shut down no matter what. I don't think anyone here has been unclear about that."

-But you were unclear, hence this fun little hen-pecking session we've been having back and forth for the past 1/2 hr. All we've been discussing is the state of the building, not what's really the issue.

"He might have a pinprick of dignity on which to stand if he kept his "clinic" maintained properly. However, as you've seen, he hasn't."

-MaryRose, please. The day you publicly praise Carhart for cleaning up the clinic is the day I join you for a stint of sidewalk counseling.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 4:14 PM


Danielle,

Abortionist Hern seems to have a nice clinic. I abhor what he does in it.

Carhart has a dive. I abhor what he does in it. Where are the outraged PC people,NARAL, the NOW crowd demanding to know why these conditions are tolerated? PC people should demand this dive be shut down and that Carhart be fined. I hear only a deafening silence.
Weren't women promised that legal abortion meant an end to these conditions because there would be state regulation and standards?
Its you PC folks have to answer to women for this.


So far, the only outrage I have heard is from PL people.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 4:16 PM


Danielle,

I said he had no dignity to stand on. Not that I would praise him for making conditions safer.

He's being hailed as a hero yet here he is. This is about as low as a legal abortion provider can go.

But playing this game is lovely. You're quite good at pulling a sentence and twisting its meaning. No wonder you fight as a pro-choicer.

Also, we're NOT unclear. You expected people to respond to your request in all seriousness? Come on. When you put ridiculously sarcastic remarks out there, you get ridiculously sarcastic remarks back.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 4:26 PM


Mary;

But PCers are for the downtrodded and disadvantaged unless they are inside their mothers' wombs.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 4:28 PM


Carhart has a dive. I abhor what he does in it. Where are the outraged PC people,NARAL, the NOW crowd demanding to know why these conditions are tolerated? PC people should demand this dive be shut down and that Carhart be fined. I hear only a deafening silence.
Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 4:16 PM

-Carhart's name is new to me. I'm starting to get familiar with his background. You're right. Based on these photos, it DOES look like a dive. I have no idea why. But rather than jump to the conclusion that Carhart is a money-grubing deviant who runs a chop shop, I'm going to find out WHY it's in the condition it's in. And barring any concerns I would have about his qualifications and demeanor as a competent physician, rather than work to shut it down, I will work to IMPROVE IT. That's the difference.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 4:28 PM


When I say safer, of course, I mean safer in comparison. Safer for the mother.

Obviously, the only way to make conditions safer for the child is to shut it down.

Mary,

Danielle has danced around this issue the last 1/2 hour that she's claimed we've been "unclear." Let's face it: PP, NARAL, and NOW aren't here to protect women in any way.

If they were, they'd WANT health codes on these practitioners. They'd offer post-abortive counseling for women. Just for starters.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 4:30 PM


Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 4:30 PM

"Danielle has danced around this issue the last 1/2 hour that she's claimed we've been "unclear." Let's face it: PP, NARAL, and NOW aren't here to protect women in any way."

-Wait, what am I dancing around? I challenged (rather cheekily, I admit) the comments that have permeated the conversation re this clinic. Rest assured, any question you directly ask me will recieve an answer.

"If they were, they'd WANT health codes on these practitioners. They'd offer post-abortive counseling for women. Just for starters."

-See above response to Mary.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 4:34 PM


Danielle,

You have been asked where the deep pockets of Carhats supporters are. You've responded by repeatedly encouraging us to open our wallets. Yes, rather cheekily.

YOU have an interest now. NOW.

Carhart is NOT a new character on the scene. He's just the hero of the day, and none of the proabort groups have called for health codes since his arrival on the national media coverage.

Furthermore, what about Tiller's practice? For years he practiced without a single RN on staff. Where were proaborts then?

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 4:47 PM


I am curious, Danielle, will you work for health code regulations in all abortion clinics?

It would be an interesting change of pace from the usual prochoice agendas.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 4:49 PM


Len,

Something to bring up with Jasper.

I don't see him on this thread recently, at least. Sorry.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 4:56 PM


Mary Rose 4:47PM

You're right about Tiller. I checked his website and couldn't find any credentials for his staff. Usually people are proud to point out their employees' credentials but try as I might I couldn't find any. Yes, I read all about their compassion and experience. As a patient I'm glad to see this in my doctor or hospital staff, but I also want people with training and licensure!

OR often exposed the practices of Tiller and verifed his staff had no credentials. These people were hired off the street yet could supervise patient care and give medications, including narcotics.
I had to wonder if Kansas had a board of licensing and regulation and where they were when this was going on.

Christen Gilbert collapsed when she walked into the Tiller clinic after an induced abortion. Wouldn't a school child know enough to call 911?
I've heard of family pets that knew enough to get immediate help for a stricken owner!
Not Tiller's staff, they worked on Christen for 40 minutes, called 911, put the operator on hold, downplayed the seriousness of the situation and asked that no lights or sirens be displayed. Always good to have your priorities straight when someone is dying.
The paramedics arrived to a scene of total chaos, they had to push Carhart out of the way, and take over resuscitative efforts. Christen was pronounced dead at the hospital.

People at a "medical" clinic who don't know enough to call 911 or perform a resuscitation.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 5:02 PM


Hern ought to install tanning booths, nail salons, a tattoo parlor, chairs and sinks, a photo studio and offer body piercing (Oh wait, he already does that) and provide a total one stop makeover for his clients. This would assist them in putting a new face on life/death.

He could even set up a drive thru memorial sevice and when the car reaches the exit he could offer framed life/death/birth certificates and sell designer urns for the ashes and offer rebates for referrals and repeat customers.

Hern could canibalize the bodies, harvest and sell all the marketable organs and tissues.

The ultimate 'chop shop'.

Haste makes waste.

So many possibilities for the ethically and morally unencumbered.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at June 5, 2009 5:07 PM


Len,

I'll ask you since no one else accusing PLs of promoting violence will answer my question.
Who do you hold responsible for the killing of an army recruiter in Arkansas by a self proclaimed black Muslim jihadist?
The anti war movement, muslims, black Americans?
Who would you say promoted this act of violence?
Certainly if someone inspired Tiller's killer someone would have had to inspire the soldier's killer as well. Apparently its incomprehensible to you folks that deranged gunmen act on their own.
So, tell me who you hold responsible for the killing of the soldier?

So far I've asked 3 people and have not gotten a response.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 5:12 PM


Kbhvac,

Are you quite serious? Where did you hear of this?

All of this? Hern provides all of these services?

Obviously, I knew already about cannibalizing the bodies. Unfortunately, it's a sad truth in many abortion "clinics".

But the rest of it... could a person POSSIBLY be so calloused?

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 5:12 PM


Mary,

That's just plain awful.

I knew they highly discouraged hospital trips, making patients sign release forms promising not to visit the ER but instead to only consult with the clinic's staff while undergoing procedures. I knew that Dr. Tiller had lied about having a live birth (the baby was adopted because the birth was *technically* in the parking lot of the hospital they work with in necessary cases... and then lived through the night despite "comfort care" ... I doubt she would have been so lucky if she'd actually been born in the clinic itself).

And I knew Tiller's clinic had seen the death of a woman...but this!

How did he continue to operate for so long? How did he manage to get acquitted?

$$ talks, doesn't it?

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 5:20 PM


Len,

Again, talk to Jasper. He's not here right now.

Personally, I find the post offensive, yes.

On the other hand, having read Jasper's posts, I'd say it was meant as a scathing joke. Not to my tastes, but that would be my inference.

Still, the point remains, none of the people on this thread now said that. Address him, not us.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 5:27 PM


Who do you hold responsible for the killing of an army recruiter in Arkansas by a self proclaimed black Muslim jihadist?
The anti war movement, muslims, black Americans?
Who would you say promoted this act of violence?
Certainly if someone inspired Tiller's killer someone would have had to inspire the soldier's killer as well. Apparently its incomprehensible to you folks that deranged gunmen act on their own.
So, tell me who you hold responsible for the killing of the soldier?

So far I've asked 3 people and have not gotten a response.

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 5:12 PM

Mary - Just because someone is pro-choice doesn't mean they want to kill military folks. You act as if there is a correlation. And on top of that, your islamophobia is really kinda sick - It's like when you percieve that your views are being questioned you just lash out.... its really ugly to see online, but I can't imagine what it would be like to witness in public. It reminds me of the Hillary supporter lady (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s for an idea of who I am talking about). You seem about as balanced as a bike missing a wheel.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 5:29 PM


Posted by: LoneStarJeffe at June 5, 2009 3:59 PM

I don't think bush is hitler. There is a difference between being America's worst president and being someone who murders 6 million plus people. Biggg difference. So yeah, please stop comparing abortion to hitler. I don't think its cool and furthermore it makes your movement look trashy, uneducated and off-balance.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 5:33 PM


Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 4:47 PM:

You have been asked where the deep pockets of Carhats supporters are. You've responded by repeatedly encouraging us to open our wallets. Yes, rather cheekily. YOU have an interest now. NOW.

-Uh...yes...I'm assuming CAPS = outrage? I'm confused again, sorry. Why are you mad that I'm talking about Carhart now?

Furthermore, what about Tiller's practice? For years he practiced without a single RN on staff. Where were proaborts then?

-...What about Tiller's practice? He doesn't have a practice anymore, as we all know. How do you know what kind of help and or support he was/wasn't recieving from the PC side? I'd be happy to review any background you have on this.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 5:34 PM


Posted by: Soonerman at June 4, 2009 8:00 PM

"I believe that the 60,000 [aborted babies] get a straight shot into the bosom of Abraham."
--------------------------------------------------

Attention,

This was Soonerman's magnum opus.

What reassuring theology. It is better to expedite the delivery of 60,000 souls a year into Abrahams bosom rather than to expose them to the possibiltiy they might experience some suffering in the land of the living.

That was Janet Reno's justitification for ordering the final assault on the Branch Davidian campus in Waco, Texas. Reno said there were rumors of child abuse, got to protect the children from possible abuse. Well they did not suffer too long. However long it takes you to die from creamation.

But Soonerman wants us to take him seriously and treat him with respect, recognize his dignity.
He wants to change our hearts and change our minds so we won't be bothered by the butchers and barabarians in our midst.

Soonerman says we are not eligble to criticize child killing til we adopt at least one child.

Soonerman does not tell us who authorized him to make this decree or why we should honor other than the fact that he says so.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at June 5, 2009 5:36 PM


I am curious, Danielle, will you work for health code regulations in all abortion clinics? It would be an interesting change of pace from the usual prochoice agendas.
Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 4:49 PM

-Part of the PC agenda is to ensure that patients and doctors have safe and ready access to abortion and reproductive health services and clinics. So, yes.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 5:36 PM


I am refuting the allegation that Obama believes it appropriate to withhold medical care from a live child. I do not believe he said (or believes) any such thing.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 11:06 AM
-------

I've read the bills and listened to the audio of Obama's defense on the floor of the Illinois Senate. I provided the summary of what Obama was defending. You're not refuting it with reasons, you're simply stating you don't believe it. That's not an argument. (Monty Python creeps in...)


Listen to what he actually said on the Illinois Senate floor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUkbuhXzbvI&feature=channel

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at June 5, 2009 5:38 PM


Not outrage. Sorry. It's emphasis. You *personally* have an interest *now*. I didn't mean to confuse. Here does this work?

Danielle, my question was, where was the concern when Tiller was practicing? He was well-known. Where was the concern over health regulations for him? Were you not aware or concerned about this man?

I have seen as of yet absolutely zero effort on the part of PC groups to make sure that abortion clinics are safe for the women. I was merely pointing out that if the concern is in fact for women, shouldn't there be more concern for women's safety?

Instead, the only groups seemingly concerned at all are pro-life groups, who admittedly, want to see all abortion clinics shut down. Nonetheless, we do care about the women's safety in the meantime.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 5:40 PM


It did work! Excellent!

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 5:41 PM


Mary Rose,

Forgive me. I was being absurd. Please see the word 'ought' in the first sentence. I was making suggestions for Hern to optimize the marketing opportunities at his chop shop.

'Hern does offer body piercing' was a reference
to the both the prenatal child and his/her mother who are peirced by Hern's instruments.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at June 5, 2009 5:42 PM


Anonymous,

So every time Jill posts, she needs to put a disclaimer pointing out that she doesn't promote violence to any individual?

Seems a bit excessive.

When you show that any of Jill's posts have, in fact, had the upshot of violence, I will buy your argument.

Until then, I remain unconvinced that telling the truth is equivalent to inciting violence.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 5:45 PM


Kbhvac,

Ah, I understand now.

Thank you for the clarification. I was in complete shock, there! I was trying to substantiate it and having a hard time, so I was figuring you either knew something I didn't or else had been fed false info.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 5:47 PM


I don't think bush is hitler. There is a difference between being America's worst president and being someone who murders 6 million plus people. Biggg difference. So yeah, please stop comparing abortion to hitler. I don't think its cool and furthermore it makes your movement look trashy, uneducated and off-balance.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 5:33 PM

---------------------------------------------------

ylt,

thank you so much for your concern for our reputation and for sharing your faith with us.
Don't worry, be happy. Just keep believing what you believe til you hear the 'pop'.

Google these ten names and see if you can figure out what they had in common: Hans Frank, Wilhelm Frick, Alfred Jodl, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, Wilhelm Keitel, Joachim von Ribbentrop, Alfred Rosenberg, Fritz Sauckel, Arthur Seyss-Inquart and Julius Streicher.

Here is a hint. They did not hear the 'pop' until it was the sound of their necks snapping when they came to end of the rope. The sand bags tied around their ankles ensured they did not die of strangulation.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at June 5, 2009 5:52 PM


re by: Carla at June 5, 2009 2:07 PM

By definition a troll is someone who goes to a site, looks for trouble and leaves. I come here for laughs, most of the time not commenting and leave. On the relativly rare occasion when I do comment I have a pretty good point, as opposed to some of the regulars who have nothing to offer but sycophancy and ranting akin to the cat lady on the simpsons or some deranged soapbox bible thumper you hear on the radio down south. What would this place be if everyone walked in lockstep? A pro-life dictatorship?


As a side note Anonymous at June 5, 2009 5:41 PM was me.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 5:56 PM


YLT,

You don't say!

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 5:58 PM


re: HisMan at June 5, 2009 1:27 AM

I don't know where you come from but where I'm at Hitler isn't often used as a point of sarcasm. It shows a lack of intellectual depth if all you have for humor is a man who murdered 6 million Jews. You might want to rent some good comedy videos to get better material...

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 6:00 PM


YLT 5:29PM

I never suggested PC folk want to kill military personnel. My Islamophobia! YLT you are absolutely laughable. I said absolutely nothing against Islam. The gunman is a self proclaimed Muslim jihadist. Time and again on this blog I have voiced my respect for religious freedom, and that includes Muslims, and the fact that I in no way hold the majority of Muslims accountable for terrorism. You can ask our Muslim poster Leah to verify that.

Its YOU folks who think a deranged gunman must be motivated by someone. He can't just be, well, a deranged gunman.

Please stop your blathering and answer my question. Does this apply across the board? Do you assume Muslims or the antiwar movement somehow inspired this man to commit an act of violence as you think PL forces did with the killer of Tiller?

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 6:06 PM


Len 5:24PM

You're not answering my question. Would you assume the killing of a soldier by a deranged gunman, a black Muslim self proclaimed "jihadist" resulted from the rhetoric of the antiwar movement, Muslims, or black Americans?
The assumption is Roeder, who belonged to a militia and I now understand was schizophrenic, was motiviated by PL rhetoric.

Or do you agree that deranged gunmen can very well act on their own with no motivation from anyone?

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 6:14 PM


YLT,

You accuse me of Islamophobia? I think you suffer from prolifophobia.

Maybe you're beginning to realize just how absurd you sound when you accuse PLs of somehow inspiring Roeder to commit violence with our "rhetoric".

Posted by: Mary at June 5, 2009 6:18 PM


I have seen as of yet absolutely zero effort on the part of PC groups to make sure that abortion clinics are safe for the women. I was merely pointing out that if the concern is in fact for women, shouldn't there be more concern for women's safety?

Instead, the only groups seemingly concerned at all are pro-life groups, who admittedly, want to see all abortion clinics shut down. Nonetheless, we do care about the women's safety in the meantime.
Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 5:40 PM

Danielle, MaryRose states it well. What it boils down to is that the abortion industry is more concerned about making money and not at all concerned about women's health.

Posted by: Eileen #2 at June 5, 2009 7:33 PM


When Keith Olbermann Attacks
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/steven-crowder/2009/06/05/when-keith-olbermann-attacks

Posted by: StewartIII at June 5, 2009 7:35 PM


You won't be on this site for long YLT.

When this stops being fun for you you'll go find another cause.

We pro-lifers, unlike you, are in this for the long run.

Innocent children are worth it.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 7:58 PM


Why would I write a check to a cause I don't support? It's bad enough my tax $$$$ have to fund abortions.

Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 8:14 PM


Anon, Tiller wasn't hiding his address.

Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 8:24 PM


It's official, Davis Shuster and Keith Olbermann are getting married. Imagine that, Batman and Robin getting married.



Posted by: Jasper at June 5, 2009 8:29 PM


Anon, you have got to be kidding -- the pro-life side provides the facts and the logical, reasoned arguments. It is the other side that refuses to debate with any honesty.

Posted by: Eileen #2 at June 5, 2009 8:54 PM


re: Eileen #2 at June 5, 2009 8:54 PM

Your usual arguments amount to nothing more than "I'm rubber you're glue" and this post is no exception. There is nothing wrong with being a partisan water-carrier, but at least admit it. Your black and white view of politics in general is anything but logical or reasonable. You love a good totalitarian state so long as it is your party that gets total control. You're like a cheerleader that desperately wants to be a football player, but knows deep down inside you haven't got what it takes. Don't kid yourself, the rest of us know it too.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 9:11 PM


I'm pretty sure I lost brain cells listening to Olbermann's feeble attempt at making a gaffe such as this one sound like he actually knows what he is talking about..

Wow..

Good work Jill!

Posted by: Greg at June 5, 2009 9:16 PM


jasper, LOL!!

Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 9:40 PM


YLT, you just go in circles. You cry for tolerance when we take a crack at a shoddy abortion mill, yet you want PLfers to shut up about ripping babies to shreds. They are babies. I don't care what you say!

Posted by: heather at June 5, 2009 10:00 PM


Danielle, my question was, where was the concern when Tiller was practicing? He was well-known. Where was the concern over health regulations for him? Were you not aware or concerned about this man?
Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 5:40 PM

For real? Dr. Tiller received nothing but support from PPFA and PPKM from frivolous, litigious attacks. He had a private practice which meant that monetary funding from a national non-profit was limited, but seriously. How do you even presume to know that Dr. Tiller was not known and reviewed by PC groups for his work? Since they came to a different conclusion than you, or you weren't in the room, then it was non-existent? Trust me, on the legislation arm of PPKM they were very aware of the accusations brought against Tiller and other clinics.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 10:11 PM


YLT, you prove my point -- thank you.

Posted by: Eileen #2 at June 5, 2009 10:19 PM


I am refuting the allegation that Obama believes it appropriate to withhold medical care from a live child. I do not believe he said (or believes) any such thing.

Posted by: Prochoicer at June 5, 2009 11:06 AM
-------

I've read the bills and listened to the audio of Obama's defense on the floor of the Illinois Senate. I provided the summary of what Obama was defending. You're not refuting it with reasons, you're simply stating you don't believe it. That's not an argument. (Monty Python creeps in...)


Listen to what he actually said on the Illinois Senate floor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUkbuhXzbvI&feature=channel

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at June 5, 2009 5:38 PM

_ _ _ _ _ _

Chris, Thank you for posting this video!!


Posted by: Janet at June 5, 2009 10:21 PM


Anonymous @ 5:41,

"The constant talk of the vengence of God and the like by individuals here which is applauded gives the unmistakeable impression that violence is encouraged."

I think you are mistaken.
Anonymous, you need to pick a name to post. Thanks.

Posted by: Janet at June 5, 2009 10:27 PM


".........You love a good totalitarian state so long as it is your party that gets total control. You're like a cheerleader that desperately wants to be a football player, but knows deep down inside you haven't got what it takes. Don't kid yourself, the rest of us know it too.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 9:11 PM"
----------------------------------

This is a laugher. Obama just took control of GM.

Wasn't it Chavez that said to Fidel, "we're right of Obama"?

Very simply YLT, you're delusional, swimming in a world of your own making not realizing that the oxygen is running out.

You're a flash in the pan, you base your values on lies and truth always, always wins out.

And please, don't bully the girls, it's not very manly.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 10:37 PM


Danielle,

Oh, you man the frivolous, litigious attacks about reporting rape victims? Or about the questionable legality of his late-term abortions (depression =/= justification for late term abortion)?

The frivolous, litigious attacks that were almost all shot down in one way or another by politicians to whom he contributed huge dollar sums?

Those attacks? Sorry if I'm skeptical.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 10:48 PM


Those attacks? Sorry if I'm skeptical.
Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 10:48 PM

-Yes, those.

Posted by: Danielle at June 5, 2009 10:54 PM



Danielle, @ 10:11,

"For real? Dr. Tiller received nothing but support from PPFA and PPKM from frivolous, litigious attacks. He had a private practice which meant that monetary funding from a national non-profit was limited, but seriously."

Are you saying that Planned Parenthood gave funds to Tiller's practice? I was unaware of that. Can you cite a source?

* * * *

"How do you even presume to know that Dr. Tiller was not known and reviewed by PC groups for his work?"

What PC groups are you referring to? I think Mary Rose is referring to governmental health agency oversite, not peer review.

Posted by: Janet at June 5, 2009 11:07 PM


Anon:

Would you care to expound about your getting far comment?

Perhaps you were talking about me? A pint-sized Italian kid who grew up on the streets of New York who would rip the head off of anyone who looked at me cross-eyed, a gang banger, a George McGovern and Jimmy Carter supporter, a Viet Nam war protester, a pot head probably much not different than you are now at least in mindset but thank God, I decided not to stay a selfish, me-possessed, everybody owes me a living Liberal.

I went on to get a BSME from one of the best engineering schools in the world, was an aerospace engineer who worked on numerous space projects, I am a Registered Engineer, own an engineering firm and a foundation company, I have a masters degree in Theology and working on my doctorate, yes at 56.

I serve on the board of numerous charitable organizations and am the commissioner of a football league and at the same time a head football coach.

I teach creation science to PhD's.

I have been married 33 years to the same women, and have 5 children. One an Air Force Academy Graduate Air Force Combat pilot son who served 5 years in Iraq, a youth minister son, an engineer son, a third year dean's list daughter with a double major in education, and a 13 year old straight A math genius football player son.

Somehow between doing engineering calculations and writing engineering reports I find time to write on this blog because I just can't stand what's happening to our country, as evidenced by the values expressed by people such as yourself.

I could list a lot more things but it's boring compared to my greatest achievement, surrendering to Christ.

Perhaps you were referring to a type of person, i.e., a Liberal who has the twisted notion that one has to suck anything and everything put in front of him to get ahead (pun intended)?

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 11:16 PM


Danielle,

I'm sorry that you see concerns about his admitted abortions for girls as young as 9 as not deserving some research into the likelihood of rape victims. When a SINGLE DA tried to fight it, he was the subject of terrible ridicule and slander, as per Tiller's money.

Yeah, I consider those litigious "attacks" perfectly justified.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 11:20 PM


Janet,

Thank you. What I meant was, Tiller and Carhart both should be subject to health code regulations. If PC groups were honestly concerned about more than furthering their wallets and agenda, they would insist upon proper regulations, as per a health and safety code rather than peer review.

Is that much clearer? I could give a rat's a** whether or not his peers reviewed him and found him passable. Why is it that a restaurant has more authority to answer to than an abortion clinic? Why isn't this on the top of the pro-abort prerogatives list?

Because it all comes down to $$ and agenda.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 11:24 PM


Danielle,

Just thought I'd add. What I consider frivolous is the reasoning behind some of these late-term abortions. Or the testimony of a respected Johns Hopkins psychologist not enough for you?

Sometimes as frivolous as rock concerts.

Yeah, I would look into that, personally.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 5, 2009 11:33 PM


Just found your site because of the newsbusters piece. I am pro choice but I think partial birth abortion should be illegal as these are babies at that stage of a pregnancy. I found your story compelling during the election as I did not know infancide was being practiced in hospitals across this country. That the MSM chose to ignore the story after you brought that horror to light except when it became a political issue in a presidential campaign angered me but didn't surprise me. Your response to that idiot Olbermann was funny and on the money. I wanted to praise you for your courage for speaking out and although I disagree with many here on the issue of abortion I find myself respecting you more because you argue your position honestly with facts rather than with cheap shots.

Posted by: stunned at June 5, 2009 11:39 PM


Stunned:

You are a stand up person. That was a great post. Honest, reasoned and intelligent.

Come back often, hopefully we'll turn you into a pro-lifer.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 11:48 PM


Stunned:

I'm with HisMan on this one. That post was quite intelligent and reasonable. I would love to see you commenting on this blog more often. ^_^

Posted by: MaryRose at June 6, 2009 12:04 AM



Who do you hold responsible for the killing of an army recruiter in Arkansas by a self proclaimed black Muslim jihadist?
The anti war movement, muslims, black Americans?
Who would you say promoted this act of violence?
Certainly if someone inspired Tiller's killer someone would have had to inspire the soldier's killer as well. Apparently its incomprehensible to you folks that deranged gunmen act on their own.
So, tell me who you hold responsible for the killing of the soldier?

So far I've asked 3 people and have not gotten a response.

Mary - Just because someone is pro-choice doesn't mean they want to kill military folks. You act as if there is a correlation. And on top of thatas balanced as a bike missing a wheel.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 5:29 PM


This is why people on the left are humorless idiots. Olbermann and libs accuse pro life groups for being RESPONSIBLE for Tiller's murder because they objected, protested, and publically interfered with his work. Code pink and other anti war leftist did the same thing in front or recruiting stations. More bombs went off at recruiting stations in the last 2 years than at abortion clinics in the last 10 years. Imans preach hate of the military in their mosques. We don't hear the msm say boo about these groups activities they sure don't blame those groups for Pvt Long's murder. Mary was not comparing pro choicers to a terrorist targeting soldiers but she was critizing how the msm will conveniently blame anti abortion groups for Tiller's death while not blaming anti war groups for a military recruiter's death because they support choice and oppose the war, the hypocrites.

Posted by: stunned at June 6, 2009 12:13 AM


Wow, stunned.

I'm liking you more and more.

I'm sure we'll come to sticking points eventually if you start frequenting Jill's blog, but I believe we may be able to have a dialogue about them, rather than the common hate-mongering of *some* (not all-some are quite reasonable) of the pro-choicers who choose to frequent this blog.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 6, 2009 2:59 AM


Anonymous,

I wish I still had with me a comic I once ran across about the fossil record.

It discussed how a character had come to believe in Creationism because of the fossil record, and likened the record to Yu-gi-oh cards. There are tons of fossils out there, but you just keep getting duplicates. It was quite entertaining, and an interesting twist on the Creationism/Evolutionism debate.

I don't see the need to attack HisMan's religious beliefs. It ruins any stance you may have had, lowering it to nothing but insulting jest over the other's faith. Really, you just tore your credibility a new hole.

As for the scientific credibility of lifers, when Roe V Wade was determined, we hadn't the scientific insight into the gestation of a human being that we do now. We have since learned that human life begins at the moment of conception. At that moment, a child is imprinted with a unique human DNA signature. Life enters the egg when it becomes fertilized. So, what we're talking about here, scientifically speaking, is a living human being.

As I recall, all people in the US are endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Do you presume to retract these rights from all humans who are incapable of living without some form of life support?

Or is it that all people are humans, but not all humans are people?

Posted by: MaryRose at June 6, 2009 3:28 AM


Posted by: Janet at June 5, 2009 10:21 PM
-------

Janet - you're welcome!

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at June 6, 2009 5:29 AM


Congratulations Jill!

Keep up the great work on behalf of LIFE!!!

Posted by: David in Toronto at June 6, 2009 6:18 AM


Stunned 12:13am

An outstanding post. Thank you for your support and for making my point far better than I could.
I knew nothing of the bombing incidents at the recruiting stations.
I also want the PCs to see their double standard.
They rant and carry on about the death of Tiller, but barely give a nod to the death of Pvt. Long. Do standards apply across the board?
When other deranged gunmen kill, should a racial, religlious, ethnic, or political group immediately be held responsible?
I join the others in welcoming you and hope you will visit us often.

Posted by: Mary at June 6, 2009 7:45 AM


Stunned, great post!

Posted by: heather at June 6, 2009 8:59 AM


Prochoicer - NO one is *winning* - babies are being murdered EVERY single day. For believers of pro-life, it is not about winning anything - but gaining a life for babies. This is not grade shool, nor a competition - but L I F E, something you and I were fortunate in getting to participate in...

Posted by: elizabethk at June 6, 2009 11:07 AM


This is a laugher. Obama just took control of GM.

Wasn't it Chavez that said to Fidel, "we're right of Obama"?

Very simply YLT, you're delusional, swimming in a world of your own making not realizing that the oxygen is running out.

You're a flash in the pan, you base your values on lies and truth always, always wins out.

And please, don't bully the girls, it's not very manly.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 10:37 PM


What does Obama or Castro or GM have to do with anything. Seriously, write coherently instead of spouting random bible passages and random quotes from nowhere. You're really hard to follow and then you mock others for actually writing intelligently simply because you don't understand and think that insulting people is the best way to make your point.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 6, 2009 11:57 AM


These ad hominem attacks are very saddening. We're pro-life, people, let's act like it.

And even you don't espouse to the pro-life cause, we are all adults here. Can't we discuss the facts in an intelligent fashion without attacking each other?

When we behave in this way, we only make our own arguments look weak.

When it comes down to it, what is the focus here? Saving and protecting lives. Research into growth and development shows that there are brain waves and a heart beat early on in a pregnancy. Before 22 weeks, you even have a recognizable face. The fetus shows every sign of being alive and being human. As a health professional, as a Christian, and as a PERSON, how can I not stand up and support the protection of the lives of the unborn? With the knowledge I have, I would be negligent to do otherwise.

I am not here to judge others -- not those in the pro-life movement, not the women who have abortions. I feel sad that they made that choice and will work to help them see that these fetuses need protection. And the mothers themselves need protection. Many women develop strong feelings of guilt after an abortion and regret it. They go into mourning, even if they don't realize that is what is going on. According to all I have read, it is a psychologically traumatizing experience. The body was preparing for a baby and now there is not one to be found. It is like experiencing a miscarriage.

I must admit that I find some of the abortion procedures galling. They are described in detail here: http://www.lifesitenews.com/abortiontypes/
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/unplannedpregnancy/surgicalabortions.html

One site is pro-life and the other isn't. Both descriptions give me the willies.

My call to everyone is to please research. And to then spread the facts around. We aren't going to win anyone by emotional attacks on those of a liberal mindset. We can only win support by proving our cause with facts and with empathy. Empathy does not mean agreeing, after all, but understanding and showing the facts and that there ARE other options available to these mothers who feel like they have no options left and no one to stand by them.

Posted by: Franciscangypsy at June 6, 2009 12:48 PM


Well said, Francis.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at June 6, 2009 12:51 PM


Hi HisMan,

Thank you for the chivalry but we "girls" can hold our own with YLT or anyone else on this blog. :)

Posted by: Mary at June 6, 2009 1:43 PM


Francis,

Thank you! It is such an uphill battle just to INFORM people, and to get them researching the truth of abortion! I'll always happily take one more voice telling people to do the darn research! I am so frustrated with the number of people-on both sides- who simply don't WANT to do the work to find out.

For the sake of argument, let's say this *could* be a person at conception. Wouldn't it be most prudent to do the research? Wouldn't it be wise to KNOW what happens at fertilization? At implantation? Certainly, at the very least, during an abortion?

Yet getting people just to READ what you've ALREADY found and VERIFIED is nigh impossible. Why why why?

Posted by: MaryRose at June 6, 2009 1:44 PM


Hey K.O. Kid,
It took me five seconds to find this:

Warren M. Hern,
M.D., M.P.H., Ph.D.
1130 Alpine Avenue
Boulder, Colorado 80304

Posted by: Gerry at June 6, 2009 6:55 PM


Hi Gerry, 6:55PM

I do not believe you for a minute!!

Posting the addresses of abortionists is a PL plot, period. No one could possibly find them if Jill didn't post their addresses.

Even though I am no computer genius, I could find the name and phone number of the woman occupying my childhood home that I moved out of more than 40 years ago, but that's beside the point!

Posting abortionists' addresses is all a PL plot to get abortionists killed!

Posted by: Mary at June 6, 2009 7:10 PM


Soonerman at June 5, 2009 12:52 AM said “How many lives would be saved if all people had healthcare coverage?”

Soonerman, there are many good answers to improving American health care, which is already the best in the world. The Obama answer of increasing government size and control is NOT the right answer. It will lead to failure as it has everywhere it is tried. For some good, proven answers see http://newt.org/OntheIssues/HealthandHealthCare/tabid/218/Default.aspx

Then later Soonerman spews out the bile that if abortion goes away, Jill Stanek and all the pro-life people will “go away” (?) and “a bunch of kids with no homes, mal-nourished and no medical care, like in countries such as Mexico or Brazil..etc”

Soonerman, I would suggest going away and doing some learning before you come back here and post such foolishness again. I am telling you this out of love so you won’t continue to make a fool of yourself here. Soonerman, the pro-life movement cares very much about babies, both before and after they’re born. That is why we have established a nationwide support system of pregnancy resource centers (PRCs) devoted to providing emotional and material support for women facing both untimely pregnancy and the demands of being a new parent.

Furthermore, countries like Mexico and Brazil have kids with no homes, malnourishment and poor medical care because of their failed socialist political systems. That is why we need strong, moral conservatives in office to keep America strong and to keep our system of democracy and freedom and capitalism. If those go away as Obama is trying to do, the whole system goes down the crapper as we see in the countries you mentioned.

Posted by: GodsImage at June 6, 2009 7:50 PM


Later, poor ole Soonerman steps in it again and says “the main figureheads of the pro-life movement focused more energy on alternatives to abortion versus trying to effect policy, that they would be more successfull.”

(side note, Soonerman, if you want to be successful, first learn to spell the word)

But back to your, ahem, “point” here. The “main figureheads” and the rest of us are very focused on alternatives to abortion. That is helping many women to understand the truth and to save the lives of their babies, contrary to what you and Keith Odermann want. So, nice try, telling us we should just continue one prong of our two pronged attack, because it would make it easier for you to promote more abortions.

But we will not stop trying to affect “policy” as you say, so long as the “policy” in effect is that one human being can kill another innocent human being at will, with a bloody, painful process of dismemberment.

As the great Martin Luther King once said, “it may be true that morality cannot be legislated, behavior can be regulated. It may be true that the law cannot change the heart but it can restrain the heartless. It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me but it can keep him from lynching me and I think that is pretty important, also.”

So, Soonerman, while we can’t legislate your morality, we can regulate your bad behavior, we can restrain your heartless killing of unborn girls and boys, and we can stop you from dismembering them and I think that is pretty important, also.

Posted by: GodsImage at June 6, 2009 7:53 PM


MaryRose,

"As for the scientific credibility of lifers, when Roe V Wade was determined, we hadn't the scientific insight into the gestation of a human being that we do now. We have since learned that human life begins at the moment of conception. At that moment, a child is imprinted with a unique human DNA signature. Life enters the egg when it becomes fertilized. So, what we're talking about here, scientifically speaking, is a living human being.
"As for the scientific credibility of lifers, when Roe V Wade was determined, we hadn't the scientific insight into the gestation of a human being that we do now. We have since learned that human life begins at the moment of conception. At that moment, a child is imprinted with a unique human DNA signature. Life enters the egg when it becomes fertilized. So, what we're talking about here, scientifically speaking, is a living human being."

Before Roe v. Wade, it was common knowledge that life begins at conception. I learned it in grade school. It was the abortion industry that redefined "pregnancy" for their own purposes.

Posted by: Janet at June 6, 2009 8:17 PM


Janet,

Let me rephrase.

We have since proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that human life, unique and individual, begins at conception.

Yes, the abortion industry is quite efficient when it comes to twisting 'science' to their ultimate profit. One has to wonder why so many Americans seem complacent to allow them to continue redefining viability and life to later and later, despite the clear scientific proof to the contrary.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 6, 2009 8:45 PM


Posted by: stunned at June 6, 2009 12:13 AM

What is it with your islam obsession? Seriously, have you never watched the 700 Club or John Hagee, have you never listend to "christian" radio. Pull the forrest from your eyes before claiming to speak with clarity. You blame everyone but yourself for the perception of your movement. You come off so stark raving mad that it is both funny and sad at the same time.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 6, 2009 8:45 PM


Wow, YLT.

I really hope that I'm misreading somehow.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 6, 2009 8:57 PM


YLT 8:45PM

You were saying something about stark raving mad?? Maybe you just don't recognize sense when you see it.

Posted by: Mary at June 6, 2009 9:07 PM


YLT:

As I have had to point out many of the miauses of the English language that you and Soonerman employ to twist ideas, similary, I'll have to draw a map, or metaphorically speaking, dovetail my reference to Obama's takeover of GM as a repsonse to your use of the word "totalitarian" in a previous comment as follows:

".........You love a good totalitarian state so long as it is your party that gets total control. You're like a cheerleader that desperately wants to be a football player, but knows deep down inside you haven't got what it takes. Don't kid yourself, the rest of us know it too.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 9:11 PM"
----------------------------------

This is a laugher. Obama just took control of GM.

Wasn't it Chavez that said to Fidel, "we're right of Obama"?

Very simply YLT, you're delusional, swimming in a world of your own making not realizing that the oxygen is running out.

You're a flash in the pan, you base your values on lies and truth always, always wins out.

And please, don't bully the girls, it's not very manly.

Posted by: HisMan at June 5, 2009 10:37 PM"
----------------------------

Does that clear it up for you YLT or do you want me to break out the paint by number set as well?

Posted by: HisMan at June 6, 2009 10:29 PM


Don,

Plenty of women would love to adopt, care for, and help with the support of children who would otherwise be aborted.

That's why prolifers are so active in CPCs, post-abortive counseling, effective sexual education, and adoption groups.

Among others.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 6, 2009 10:51 PM


Sorry, that was biased of me.

Women and men.

My apologies to all of the wonderful pro-life gentlemen on the thread. I hadn't meant to discount your work.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 6, 2009 10:53 PM


Don:

What eloquent and kind words! Thank you.

There you have it pro-lifers. The voice of Liberals, Don, agrees that if we put our money where our mouth is that abortion will be made illegal.

I say............"DONE DEAL"!

OH, WHAT IS THAT YOU SAID, OBAMA WOULD'T AGREE TO THAT?

RING, RING, RING.....HELLO.....DON, THIS IS YOUR AGENT, YOUR JOB AS THE VOICE OF OBAMA HAS BEEN ABORTED FOR INSUBORDINATION.

Posted by: HisMan at June 6, 2009 11:07 PM


His Man, lol!

Posted by: heather at June 6, 2009 11:09 PM


Don, have you ever adopted? What charity do you donate to? PETA? SAVE THE TREES, SAVE A WHALE?..... Liberalism is a mental disorder!

Posted by: heather at June 6, 2009 11:11 PM


Don Belanger --

A lot of prolifers do just as you suggest and adopt children. I have personally experienced the willingness of multiple families to take in the child of a woman that none of them personally knew in order to save the child from being aborted and the mother from the guilt, pain, and mourning that, according to literature, often follows abortion. I also know many people who, even if they are unable to financially afford to support a child, donate their time to pregnancy centers -- supplying support and supplies to mothers who choose to keep their children... or provide other options to women who are uncertain as to whether or not they want to keep their children and are afraid of the consequences of allowing their children to be born.

I can understand your frustration; not all of us put our money where our mouths are. But most of us at least attempt to, to the best of our ability. We are not suggesting that young girls who are not able to emotionally, psychologically, or financially capable of raising children to be required to raise the children. We are just begging that the children be allowed to continue living as science has already shown that they have already begun doing inside the womb, before any abortion occurs. There are many families who would love to take in these children, if only they were given the chance. And it is our responsibility as prolifers to let women know that they are not alone; that we are willing to help them and raise the children that they are not able or are not willing to raise.

I, for one, am not here to judge you on your views. I disagree with you, probably quite strongly on many issues. But I will not call you names or insult your intelligence. I do not know why you are prochoice, but I do hope that, with rational discussion, we can come to understand your views and we can have a chance to show you the facts that support our stance on this very important issue.

Posted by: Franciscangypsy at June 6, 2009 11:12 PM


Mr. Belanger:

But how would a pregnant teenager know that all this alternative care your propose is out there, i.e., adoption, etc.

Planned Parenthood fights the pro-life movement at any level, i.e., parental notification laws, mandatory ultrasounds, etc., where these types of laws might hurt their bottom line.

Where's your outrage at that? You're angry at the wrong people if you truly care about the unborn.

Posted by: HisMan at June 6, 2009 11:28 PM


HisMan --

The mandatory ultrasounds are not something for us to fear or even be angry about. Those ultrasounds are more likely to be beneficial to the prolife cause. Have you ever seen a baby on an ultrasound? It is an amazing experience... esp. the newer ones that allow you to see the baby's face! If that is a Planned Parenthood weapon against us, then it is not nearly as effective as they would like it to be.

Yes, ultrasounds can be used to find deformities that might make people think twice about having a baby. But, even more importantly, they can show development and HUMAN-NESS of the unborn baby. A lot of times, seeing the baby moving and sucking his little thumb in the womb is enough to pull at a mother's heart-strings.

Just want to share some pictures for y'all. I tried to find a variety of different sites to provide these pictures. Aren't the unborn adorable?

http://www3.americanradiology.com/pls/web1/wwmodality.mod?bill_mod_in=03

http://techblogogy.net/wp-content/uploads/ultrasound.jpg

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_4790.aspx

Posted by: Franciscangypsy at June 6, 2009 11:59 PM


Franciscangypsy,

I read it as fighting mandatory u/s's, as PP does not show these u/s's to women seeking abortions in most states. I believe it was Nebraska (?) that recently passed a law requiring that U/S's be shown to the mother before the abortion. Although the law may have been that they be offered...

In many states, PP and other abortion mills don't just choose not to show u/s's to pregnant women, they also attempt to disallow viewing the u/s's and are usually successful.

I believe that is what HisMan was referencing, but I may be mistaken.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 7, 2009 12:34 AM


RE: Yo La Tengo at June 5, 2009 12:11 AM

That's okay, I can catch baseballs that fly into right field fairly easily. :)

Posted by: segamon at June 7, 2009 12:40 AM


Right on Mary.

Posted by: HisMan at June 7, 2009 1:03 AM


Okay. My mistake, HisMan. I misread your statement.

Posted by: Franciscangypsy at June 7, 2009 7:19 AM


Posted by: HisMan at June 6, 2009 10:29 PM

You want control of woman's bodies, yet you get all angsty when Obama bails out GM. The president wants to help an auto company and you want to dominate woman's bodies. You can call Obama a communist, but I'd much rather be a communist than a misogynist

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 7, 2009 11:35 AM


Prolifers don't wish to dominate woman's bodies, Yo La Tengo, we merely wish to protect children who are unable to protect themselves. The Declaration of Independence states that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." We only want children in the womb to be allowed these basic rights like the rest of us.

This is not merely an issue about women's rights. We aren't trying to take over or destroy their lives or deal with anything they can't handle. We're asking, begging women to put their own fears aside and allow a baby to keep the gift of life that science shows they already have in the womb.

With our freedom in this country comes responsibility to protect those incapable of protecting themselves. Women, even the most scared or vulnerable, have the ability to stand up and make motions to protect themselves, even if we sometimes need help. The unborn babies do not have a voice of their own that can be heard and so we have that much more of a responsibility to protect their rights.

Posted by: Franciscangypsy at June 7, 2009 12:06 PM


...I'd much rather be a communist than a misogynist

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 7, 2009 11:35 AM

--------------------------------------------------------

YLT,

There you go bragging again.

But most communists I've encountered were at least closet misogynists if not outright flaming male chauvenist bigots.

Men are males no matter what their ideology. Not all males are men.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at June 7, 2009 1:01 PM


Posted by: Jasper at June 5, 2009 8:29 PM

Jasper,

Barrakman and Rahmbin are the 'Demonic Duo'!

Blowharderman and Goobersmoocher are just wannabe imposters and illegitmate interlopers.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at June 7, 2009 1:15 PM


YLT, we don't want control of women's bodies. We want you to control your own. Stop having reckless sex. You know, when you have unprotected sex, you are also leaving yourself open to a multitude of STDs. This includes HIV! Just think. Every abortion is the result of unprotected sex. 4000 a day. That's a lot of unprotected episodes of sex!

Posted by: heather at June 7, 2009 9:27 PM


And tell your pro abort friends to get some control over their bodies, so that my tax dollars don't have to fund their abortions.

Posted by: heather at June 7, 2009 10:03 PM


YLT:

I could care less about controlling women's bodies.

I just want them to know the truth about abortion. Truth that is withheld from them on the bioethical, spiritual and emotional consequences of abortion by those that profit from its performance.

That's the least I or any other pro-lifer could do for them: I try to present the spiritual consequences, Carla and many others provide the emotional consequences and others the bioethical. Do you think Carla, Angele, Heather, Janet, all women, are wanting to control women's bodies as well? I don't think so. They are motivated by pure love.

As pro-women as you claim to be YLT I am really surprised that you don't feel the same way especially after learning the heart wrenching stories told by the women who have had abortions, the ones that are not in denial.

Do you have any idea what a women feels like when she's in a difficult pregnancy? I would imagine it's like a trapped animal willing to chew it's leg off to get away.

They don't need someone like you to tell them it's OK to go ahead and gnaw. They need someone to say, "if you gnaw your leg off you might escape but then bleed to death".

We are there to ask them, "can I help you through this, can I help you get out of this trap, so you can keep your leg and preserve your life"?

This is why we pro-lifers do this and for no other reason.

Whether you know it or not YLT, your well intended but misplaced compassion is actually hatred for women because it is not in their best interest and good. I don't think you understand how offensive your comments are to a person like Carla who was nearly destroyed by the abortion she had and was only set free until she faced the Truth, met the Truth and let the Truth heal her. I am absolutely sure being found in the same situation she would not choose to do it again.

Open your heart man, open your heart!

Posted by: HisMan at June 8, 2009 12:07 AM


HisMan? Hatred for women? Really.... seriously. I think women are strong enough and informed enough to make decisions on their own. They do not need your protection. They are not weak and defenseless damsels in distress crying out to you "save me, Save me". The hero complex needs to be put away with the cape and the tights. It's not your role and it's not your look.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 8, 2009 3:03 AM


Great job Ms. Stanek! You've done our Lord proud :)

Posted by: Phil Onochie at June 8, 2009 7:27 AM


YLT,

I am a woman looking to protect other women from the lies and missteps of abortion. This isn't a matter of a "hero cape" it's a matter of humanity, and the fact that our humanity is being lied to outright by groups such as NARAL and PP.

Your comments and goals seem to be to ultimately deceive and misdirect both women and men, but most especially women, into believing that abortion is a perfectly normal part of life. That, in and of itself, displays a hatred of women.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 8, 2009 7:32 AM


Hmmmm... I left a comment here expressing my true feelings about Keith and trust me they were not favorable and yet you removed them.

I guess fascism does exist in some Conservative circles.

But I'll take fascism over the mental midget nonsense of Keith Olbermann any day.

However, I will keep this in mind, when visiting here however.

Posted by: Paleo Pat at June 8, 2009 9:18 AM


Pat,
If you commented as anonymous, your post was removed.

YLT,
Yes. Informed about abortion. If I had been informed about abortion, I never would have had one.
Nice try.

Posted by: Carla at June 8, 2009 9:42 AM


Gosh, so sorry I missed the party!

Congratulations, Jill! Awesome job! I'm sure Daddy is all smiles. :D

Posted by: Margie at June 8, 2009 10:25 AM


re: Carla at June 8, 2009 9:42 AM

I respect that you felt uninformed about the decision that you made but I think many women understand the cost\benefits of the procedure before they decide.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 8, 2009 9:41 PM


YLT,
I didn't FEEL uninformed I WAS uninformed about abortion. I was flat out lied to!!! If I was lied to what are the odds that thousands, millions were lied to as well?? Staggering thought isn't it??

Do you honestly think I am the only woman in the whole wide world of abortion that was uninformed? Maybe the only woman on this board, but I am fine with that.

If they lied to me, they lied to the MANY other women you would like to think understand the cost/benefits of abortion.

Oh, and while you try to come up with something to reply please list all of the benefits of abortion for me. I can't seem to come up with any.

Posted by: Carla at June 8, 2009 9:56 PM


Carla,

I don't think I've mentioned this, but I did mean to express my deepest sympathies on your loss. You were done a great disservice, and I am quite saddened by the fact that NARAL, PP, etc are so manipulative. The masquerade of "choice" is convincing at times, and my heart goes out to you!

Posted by: MaryRose at June 8, 2009 11:47 PM


May the Lord bless you for the work you do for women everywhere.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 8, 2009 11:48 PM


MaryRose,
Thank you for your words. The lies of the abortion industry will not stand. More and more women and men will be speaking out about how abortion hurt them.
God bless you. I am so glad you are here!!

Posted by: Carla at June 9, 2009 7:11 AM


Carla,

When I first became involved in the pro-life movement in a real substantial way, I was disheartened, and believed that we as a nation were becoming more and more oblivious to truth, and more and more lazy about our research.

However, lately, I find myself agreeing with your more. I find that women, both those who have and who have not been touched in some way by abortion, are speaking out about the truth. And men are feeling more and more like they have a right to have an opinion on the matter.

People seem to be coming to the conclusion that life begins in the womb, not out of it. People are trying to justify their rationale for abortion and realizing there is no justification.

I truly believe that in 50 years, our children and grandchildren will be talking about what a tragedy the abortion years were. I believe that one day, there will be a Holocaust-type museum for abortion.

And knowing that we're winning, that inevitably, it must come down to this, keeps my spirits up.

Posted by: MaryRose at June 9, 2009 4:17 PM


Keep fighting the good fight, MaryRose!! I know I get disheartened at times but, it is those that fight with me that keep me going!!

http://www.memorialfortheunborn.org/

This memorial is in Chattanooga, TN. It was dedicated by Norma McCorvey(the Roe of Roe V Wade) and Sandra Cano (the Doe of Doe V Bolton)

Posted by: Carla at June 9, 2009 4:42 PM


He didn't just call Jill crazy, he called her readers crazy too!
Olbermann is a buffoon! Who is writing his scripts anyway?

Posted by: donna at June 9, 2009 5:25 PM


re: Carla at June 8, 2009 9:56 PM

The ignorance of the consumer is no reason to ban the service. And when it comes down to it, Education about abortion is really just cover for moves to ban it based on personal opinion. IF it were not motivated by appeals to God then why do so many here condemn pro-choice folks as being hellbound. While I respect your opinions a movement that bases in part, it's logic on an appeal to that which cannot be seen (God) is asking us first to feel guilty because another person's God doesn;t like our choice. It's like trying to convince someone of Christ who doesn't find the bible credible. It doesn't translate across cultures.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 9, 2009 11:51 PM


Yo,
Are you a last worder?? So am I!! :P
Benefits of abortion, please.

Yes, blame and shame me for my ignorance about abortion.(I grew up with a mother like you)I didn't know what I didn't know and they certainly weren't about to tell me at the mill, were they?? Whatevs. I know now and that is why I am here.

I am sorry you have had horrifying things happen to you in your life. I am sorry that you have been hurt in ways I cannot imagine. Just as I have. If you ever want to email me please do.

Posted by: Carla at June 10, 2009 7:00 AM


Befits of abortion: Personal autonomy. Women deserve control over what happens and doesn't happen within their body.

Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 10, 2009 10:10 AM


I love Keith Olbermann. Never miss his show and rarely do I disagree. ... Huh. I bet this post never makes it past the censors. But so be it.

Posted by: Diddley Squat at June 10, 2009 10:09 PM


Wow. You beat out Bush in his pea brain. That's amazing. You should twitter Keith back that George W. feels hurt.

Posted by: Sherry at June 11, 2009 9:13 PM