Sex education unnecessary?

With renewed debate over how to curb the rampant, irresponsible sexual activity of our youth - the other side pushing more of what sexualized our children to begin with - we thought it a good time to resurrect a good piece on Life Site News last year by Psychiatrist Dr. Philip Ney regarding sex education for children.

sexed_0.jpg Dr. Ney's assessment? There is "no particular need" for it. Some of his more noteworthy points:

  • The more sex education, the more sexual self-consciousness. There is substantial evidence that the more sex education, especially on technique, the more the couple is sexually inhibited. The greater the emphasis on sexual performance, the less communication and interpersonal intimacy there is....
  • The more sex education, the more sexual activity. It is quite conclusive now, that the more sex education, the more sexual activity and all the problems that go with that. The introduction of sex education is well correlated with the increase in abortion, STDs and boy-girl interpersonal problems.

  • The earlier the sex education, the younger children explore sex and try various sexual techniques. Present evidence makes it possible to also conclude that the earlier the sex education, the earlier the sexual behavior.

  • In preventing disease and pregnancy, sex education has been a failure. Sex education has had the opposite effect in preventing young people from engaging in "risky sexual behavior."

  • The reliance on condoms has been dangerously misleading. There are sexually transmitted diseases (eg. HPV) for which condoms offer no protection.... Condom use creates the false impression of safety, thus encouraging sex....

  • There is nothing in sex education that cannot be part of a more effective general health education.

  • Sex education creates mind absorbing conflicts and preoccupations. Exposing children to sexual titillation (sex education) creates conflicts and preoccupations that interfere with their mental health, education and personal development.
  • [HT: Randy Engel; photo attribution: mylifetime.com]


    Comments:

    I definitely agree: too much sex education has caused a lot of problems. When I had sex ed, it was basically what would happen during puberty. There was no need for condoms and birth control or that junk (plus, it was a CATHOLIC SCHOOL) and we were in the 5th or 6th grade for Pete's sake! The boys in my class were VERY immature and I wish they had done a separate class for the girls and for the boys.

    Posted by: LizFromNebraska at June 12, 2009 4:15 PM


    I agree completely...how can anyone not see that this is the case? You'd have to be completely blind not to notice...

    The more that this type of sex education has been pushed, the more children have been involved in sexual activity, at younger and younger ages... more teengers have become pregnant out of wedlock... more children have been having oral sex, etc at ridiculously young ages...and more and more disease has been spread through sexual contact. It's so sad.

    Posted by: Bethany at June 12, 2009 4:28 PM


    We have a president who has never seen a sex ed program he did not like. We have appointees (and basically an entire political party) who are just as bad. Elections have consequences.

    While we need to keep up the pressure on these matters, it really is not that far from now when mid-term elections will be here and we can dump crazy old Pelosi, and maybe with some luck get the Senate back as well. It is our only hope.

    Posted by: Jerry at June 12, 2009 4:35 PM


    This is great stuff, but.....

    you know the first thing the "sex-education is necessary to reduce abortion" groups will say

    - this is out of touch, anti-sex, religious zealot, right-wing nut-job rhetoric and it won't work in the real world.

    Posted by: Janet at June 12, 2009 4:45 PM


    Why don't they just send condoms to our homes? Drop them by helicopter? Throw them at parades? Line the streets with them?

    CONDOMS ARE THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING!! :P


    Posted by: Carla at June 12, 2009 4:53 PM


    Jerry,

    "We have a president who has never seen a sex ed program he did not like."

    Good point. If he cared about reducing pregnancy, he'd pay attention to people like Dr. Phillip Ney and Dr. Alveda King and the like. I don't think Obama cares about reducing abortion. His agenda depends on his ability to keep the poor and disadvantaged down - it makes him look like a savior to those who don't yet understand his agenda. If he keeps the poor population down, he saves money on social services expenditures.

    Posted by: Janet at June 12, 2009 4:57 PM


    "CONDOMS ARE THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING!! :P"

    FYI, CONDOMS ARE NOT BIODEGRADABLE and the environmentalists should be OUTRAGED at their prevalence!

    Do you know how many seagulls and sea turtles die every year from eating condoms washed up on beaches? I don't, but I'd bet it's A LOT!! :^(

    Posted by: Janet at June 12, 2009 5:03 PM


    I strongly encourage everyone to listen to the following show.

    I am 100% confident that once you hear what Mario and Charles have to say, you will absolutely be convinced that Obama is in fact a USURPER, NOT eligible to be the POTUS, and that the Main Stream Media has been burying this paramount issue.

    This is off topic issue, but an issue of national and paramont importance.

    This issue cannot be ignored and must be continued to be stoked and pressed.

    Posted by: James at June 12, 2009 6:31 PM


    Here is the link:
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ASKShow/2009/06/12/Andrea-Shea-King-Show

    Mario and Charles are fantastic!!!

    Posted by: James at June 12, 2009 6:32 PM


    After talking to my typically much more liberal than me husband about this issue, I was surprised to hear that HE ACTUALLY AGREES. We came to the conclusion that if sex ed is at all needed, it needs to be bumped up to at the earliest 7th grade, maybe 6th, and it doesn't need to be so explicit. He agrees that it does encourage promiscuous behavior the more in-depth it gets, and that kids are indeed more likely to engage in sex early the earlier they receive sex ed. And he has a liberal mom and went through the California public school system! I was shocked. :P

    But I myself was thinking about my experiences in contrast to his...and I mean...there's really no denying that this is true. My mom pulled me out of school in 5th grade and took me out for lunch the day they had sex ed. at my California public school. I'm glad she did, because I wouldn't have had the slightest clue of what was going on, and I'm so very glad she let me keep my innocence a little longer than those other kids. Could've stood to lose it a little sooner than what actually happened, but I guess it's better to err on the side of caution. :/

    Posted by: xalisae at June 12, 2009 7:38 PM


    "I am a retired professor of psychiatry, having taught in 5 universities in different parts of Canada, Hong Kong and New Zealand. I have also run child and adolescent psychiatric units. I have been on school boards. It is from a review of the literature and from my experience that I write this brief opinion."

    Ney's resume stands on its own, regardless of political leanings.

    http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/sep/08090405.html
    - Dr. Philip Ney

    That resume stands on its own merit.

    Posted by: Janet at June 12, 2009 8:22 PM


    Oops, cross out the last sentence on my comment @ 8:22PM.

    Posted by: Janet at June 12, 2009 8:24 PM


    I never remember having a 'sex education class'.

    I do remember, in the sixth grade, they separated the boys and girls.

    I don't know what they told the girls, but they told the boys about the uterus and sloughing off cells every 28 days and and blood.

    I had four sisters. That was more information than I wanted.

    The enigma wrapped in the riddle morphed into the great mystery that all men, particularly, married men, know as 'woman'.

    In spite of the lack of 'sex education' I managed, with the help of my wife, to figure out the basics of Sex 101 and in the doing we muddled our way into 5 children in 7 years.

    Just think what we could have accomplished if we were properly trained.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at June 12, 2009 9:12 PM


    Ken,

    LOL!

    Posted by: Janet at June 12, 2009 9:22 PM


    Todays chuckle courtesy of Rush Limbaugh:

    What does God have in common with Obama?

    Neither has a birth certificate.!

    How do God and Obama differ?

    God does not think he's Obama!

    There's another difference. Liberals love Obama!

    Another difference, Obama gets better press!

    God only demands to be worshipped once a week!

    God asks for only 10 percent of your money!

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at June 12, 2009 10:06 PM


    I just saw this on Life Site News:

    NEW DELHI, June 12, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) – The Indian government has rejected western-style sex education programs, saying they do nothing to solve the problem of teenage pregnancy but only exacerbate the problem by promoting sexual promiscuity.

    Here's the url to read the rest:
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/jun/09061202.html

    I'm grateful I went to school in the old days. In 6th grade the girls got a Disney-like animation film on menstruation. In Catholic high school the nuns said, "Don't do anything!"

    Posted by: Luana at June 13, 2009 12:58 AM


    Apple, I'm a pretty open-minded individual, so if I hadn't already seen solid evidence of this when comparing and contrasting my own life experiences to my husband's. And my husband even admitted it himself, that there really is substantial evidence to support this in our lives.

    Posted by: xalisae at June 13, 2009 1:27 AM


    You mean nobody here wants to fawn praise over Obama for his administrations' affirming the anti-gay, DOMA legislation? That is surprising. Funny, all of the more liberal segment is openly outraged about it, but the right is eerily silent. It's like they don't want to admit they agree with him on something.

    Posted by: prettyinpink at June 13, 2009 3:34 AM


    Something liberals can never get into their thick heads: when you subsidize a behavior (through legalization, regulation, education), you end up normalizing it and increasing its incidence.

    Posted by: Cranky Catholic at June 13, 2009 7:15 AM


    My fother believed the bibles view of sex, and what it ment.

    Posted by: RJ Sandefur at June 13, 2009 8:05 AM


    Jill, Ask us a hard question this week. Make us think... give our brains excerize!! RJ

    Posted by: RJ Sandefur at June 13, 2009 8:07 AM


    Obama Bill Boards Slowly Spreading!


    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=100914
    Grassroots sign onto eligibility billboard campaign
    Washington state 'Where's The Birth Certificate' sign appears


    Come my friends, let's get more Bill Boards out there.

    Posted by: James at June 13, 2009 9:18 AM


    Posted by: prettyinpink at June 13, 2009 3:34 AM


    "You mean nobody here wants to fawn praise over Obama for his administrations' affirming the anti-gay, DOMA legislation? That is surprising. Funny, all of the more liberal segment is openly outraged about it, but the right is eerily silent. It's like they don't want to admit they agree with him on something."

    --------------------------------------------------------
    ylt,

    A broken clock is right twice a day.

    Even the devil can do a gentlemanly thing, but I would not commend him for doing so, there are too many other bad acts before and after the rare good one.

    pbho, the 'sort of god', will be adored soon enough by his obseqious servile sycophants and his slobbering lap dog media devotees.

    And if they should fall short in their ministrations and libations pbho will worship himself.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at June 13, 2009 10:39 AM


    Posted by: Cranky Catholic at June 13, 2009 7:15 AM

    "Something liberals can never get into their thick heads: when you subsidize a behavior (through legalization, regulation, education), you end up normalizing it and increasing its incidence."

    -------------------------------------------------------

    Cranky,

    Liberals 'want' to normalize the 'behavior'.

    They don't want less of it, they want more of it.

    Somewhere in the regulating of it, they find a source of revenue and they use the revenue to ensure their access to the things they really want, power and control.

    Abortion is a cash cow and a golden goose for liberals. How do you think men like Tiller avoided complying with even the most minimal regulations over their activities. They greased the palms of the hands that protected them. Liberals did not want to look in the gift ass in the mouth. They were content to kiss the ass and take his money and look the other way.

    Even Tiller's fellow 'christians' took his money and looked the other way.

    Those same kind of 'christians' took the slave owners money and looked the other way.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at June 13, 2009 10:54 AM


    Whoops,

    My aplogies to Pretty in Pink.

    I mistakenly addressed you as YLT.

    This was a serious mistake.

    I know my apologies will not undo the hurt and pain, but that is all I have to offer for now.

    This too shall pass.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at June 13, 2009 10:58 AM


    Yay, PrettyinPink is back!

    Obama rejected gay marriage? I thought that he supported gay rights because of his anti-hate crime support. That's sad. :(.

    I just watched the movie Milk awhile ago and got a whole new comprehension of homosexuality. It surprised and saddened me.

    Surely he'll change his mind... :(

    Posted by: Vannah at June 13, 2009 11:32 AM


    Arkansas is a very small state. Nothing really happens there very often (with the exception of the tragic shooting of the recruitment NCOs in Little Rock recently, but that I can assure you is FAAAAAR from the norm for just about the entire state), so when anything does, it's a big deal. I remember living there when Clinton was elected. EVERYONE was tripping all over themselves trying to lay claim to "Clinton's birthplace!", "Clinton's hometown!", "Clinton's cousin lived here one time!"

    You would think that, especially with such a significant thing as being the first African-American president, every single spot in Hawaii that Mr. Obama stepped foot upon would be dying to label themselves as "Obama's birthplace", "Obama's childhood home", etc. But not a single hospital can tell you he was born there? Even Clinton could come up with a legit birth certificate, and most towns in Arkansas, especially back then, were 2 churches, a kindergarden-high school complex, a general store, a post office, and a cemetary (Heck, the town I'm about to move back to next month is just about that same size to this day). I'm sure Hawaii could manage as much.

    Sorry for the tangent, but that comment just got me thinking...

    Posted by: xalisae at June 13, 2009 11:35 AM


    Did anyone see the first episode of the MTV "16 and Pregnant" show? I was pleasantly surprised by the first young woman (though not by the young man, or by the [grand]parents), and wondered what reactions other people had.

    Posted by: Alexandra at June 13, 2009 11:50 AM


    I try to avoid any and all MTV viewing these days, mostly because I hate what they've helped reduce music to these days, but I'll give it a look-see.

    Posted by: xalisae at June 13, 2009 11:57 AM


    MTV should change its name. Its not Music Television anymore, its like 94% reality programs.

    And no, I didn't turn it on. I haven't watched MTV since NSYNC decided to "take a break" in 2001/2002.

    Posted by: LizFromNebraska at June 13, 2009 12:00 PM


    The show was mentioned on this site -- as were the negative opinions on the usual MTV "reality" characters -- so I was just curious if people here had tuned in.

    I am pro-Tivo (or TiFaux) because it allows you to bypass the stupidity of any channel and only watch the things you're interested in.

    Posted by: Alexandra at June 13, 2009 12:07 PM


    oooooh, I love me some DVR pre-recorded programming goodness. I can't wait to get dish network again. Their DVR was so much better than the crappy one we have from Comcast right now.

    I pretty much gave up on anything mainstream and musical after Chris Cornell didn't get a single Grammy for Euphoria Morning and was beaten out by some little pop act.

    Posted by: xalisae at June 13, 2009 12:24 PM


    Alexandra,

    Why don't you just list all the shows you like and then we will know what NOT to watch?

    You have 'outed' yourself.

    You can cease pretending to be one of us.

    You are free from complying with the 'prime directive'.

    Your cover has been blown.

    You might want to consider acquiring a new disquise or even identity.

    I understand gender re-assignment is the trendy thing to do right now.

    Let us know when we can start pretending you are now Alexander.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at June 13, 2009 12:31 PM


    "You would think that, especially with such a significant thing as being the first African-American president, every single spot in Hawaii that Mr. Obama stepped foot upon would be dying to label themselves as "Obama's birthplace", "Obama's childhood home", etc. But not a single hospital can tell you he was born there?"
    ===========================================

    Yeah, X...it doesn't make sense specially now that every place he went to here in Chicago is now "sacred ground" to Obama followers.

    IMO, it's only 1 of 2 things:
    1) He wasn't born there at all OR
    2) they don't care about Obama...

    wonder which one it is?

    Posted by: RSD at June 13, 2009 12:31 PM


    kbhvac: What is with you and these bizarre beliefs that Alexandra and I are lying about being pro-life? Is it really so hard for you to understand that people can be pro-life and disagree with you in other areas?

    I think schools should just stick to the biological, science-class stuff when it comes to sex: these are the male and female sexual parts, this is how they function. Given that loads of kids graduate from high school without knowing basic math, English, and historial information, schools have more important things to be teaching.

    Posted by: Marauder at June 13, 2009 12:40 PM


    I think schools should just stick to the biological, science-class stuff when it comes to sex: these are the male and female sexual parts, this is how they function. Given that loads of kids graduate from high school without knowing basic math, English, and historial information, schools have more important things to be teaching.
    Posted by: Marauder at June 13, 2009 12:40 PM

    well just to give you an example of how well high school sex ed is going these days:
    I recently overheard two teens, a boy and a girl, discussing when a woman ovulates.
    Boy: isn't a woman fertile in the middle of her cycle, around day 14 or so?
    Girl: no way! A woman ovulates a week before her period and a week after.

    I hesitated, not knowing if I should butt into their conversation and correct the girl who will surely be surprised if heeds the advice of our culture today and becomes sexually active outside of marriage.

    How can this teen who was in an upper level class be this ignorant of her own body? But, I'm betting she knows all about condoms, the pill etc.

    Posted by: angel at June 13, 2009 12:59 PM


    Posted by: RSD at June 13, 2009 12:31 PM

    IMO, it's only 1 of 2 things:
    1) He wasn't born there at all OR
    2) they don't care about Obama...

    wonder which one it is?

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Both.

    But a monument to pbho's birth is being built in Kenya.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at June 13, 2009 1:29 PM


    Angel: that is very interesting. You'd think they'd be teaching factual information. Its very sad how many women don't know how their reproductive system works.


    And its really sad if kids are graduating without basic knowledge: reminds me of a Dateline-NBC story done quite a few years back where they asked children/adults who the 1st President of the USA was (or something like that) and a lot of people didn't know the answer......but when asked who Luke Skywalker was.......More knew THAT answer.

    Posted by: LizFromNebraska at June 13, 2009 1:42 PM


    Thanks Vannah! DOMA is a stupid piece of legislation that Clinton signed, and homosexuals felt betrayed then. It's no surprise that Bush confirmed it; but most gay people that voted for Obama expected him to be..well, liberal and actually represent them. In turn, he has affirmed DOMA and for the worst reasons:

    http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/obama-justice-department-defends-doma.html

    Ken,

    It's alright ;) I was genuinely surprised Jill didn't blog on it though.

    All I can say is, ball's in his court. I have a feeling he is very liberal on this issue but is not ballsy enough to do anything about it yet :/ If he wants to get reelected he should address this issue, is all I'm saying.

    Posted by: prettyinpink at June 13, 2009 2:06 PM


    Marauder,

    The former Governor of Texas, and now dearly departed Anne 'wrinkles' Richards, once famously quipped, "Don't go peeing down my leg and try and tell me it's raining."

    I can be with alcoholics, drug addicts, prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves and liars, but I am not yet saved enough to be with a man like Tiller who freely and publicly acknowledged he single handedly killed 60,000 prenatal children.

    Call me what you will I could never knowingly share a pew with him. I would find somewhere else to warm the bench and cultivate splinters. This light could not fellowship with that darkness.

    I have been around a lot of pro-lifers representing many different life experiences, but I never doubted who they were or what they believed.

    I do not believe you are who or what you claim to be. I may be mistaken, but I sense no connection with you. You are strange fire to me.

    You can play the tune and sing the song, but I will not dance with you or for you.

    yor bro ken


    Posted by: kbhvac at June 13, 2009 2:07 PM


    Vannah, other great movies regarding homosexuality/transgendered include Boys Don't Cry and For the Bible Tells Me So. If you haven't seen them yet, you should!

    Posted by: prettyinpink at June 13, 2009 2:09 PM


    Why don't you just list all the shows you like and then we will know what NOT to watch?

    Mad Men
    The Office
    Friday Night Lights (great musical direction)
    16 And Pregnant (as of the first episode)
    Friends re-runs when I need a 20-minute work break
    Harper's Island (amazing guilty pleasure, it's like a B-level horror movie made into a TV series; absolutely terrible)

    As for the rest of your comments, I have no cover to blow. I am not pretending to be anyone, least of all "you." I have never been here on assignment or by direction; though I might not come back of my own volition for some time.

    Of all the things for someone here to accuse me of, dishonesty is a pretty big stretch. I think that if nothing else I have been unflinchingly, painfully honest at times. I understand that part of that means taking jabs from others. I don't welcome them but I accept them; I consider them a small price to pay for refusing to hide truths behind pleasantries. It's true that I don't post as much personal information now as I did in the past, but I don't think anyone can really blame me.

    Just so it's easier for you to actually hit a target next time, here is some relevant information about me: I am in a committed, monogamous, heterosexual relationship of four years; my first and, if I'm blessed, my last. I am a 26-year old woman and am perfectly happy with that. I was once pregnant, but I do not have a child; for further details on that you might want to ask someone who was here when I explained. Maybe I'll c/p comments from another site so you can adequately pick through them for one-liner gold.

    I do not believe in God, but not for any lack of searching (just ask MK). I do not use the term agnostic as a destination but as an honest description. I would be happy if it changed but I am not willing to change it simply to be happy, ie with no intellectual or spiritual justification.

    When I was 18 I had a full scholarship to a private college, which I forfeited when I went on medical leave. I managed a retail store while both recovering from my illness and attending community college, when I was 19-21. My mom had cancer towards the end of that time, but she's okay now.

    I have two sisters, both of whom I miss like my next breath whenever they are not with me. I am the middle child. I have an obese, rapidly aging cat and I live in a moderately poor neighborhood that I love with all my heart. I majored in English with a focus on Old English, but I currently work in the theater industry, (mostly) as a carpenter or as a sound-board operator. My dream is to be a librarian. Throughout my adolescence I studied ballet at one of the premier schools in the world. I play the piano and the cello. I am 5' tall and about 105 lbs. I have brown hair and olive skin. Here is a picture of me from Christmas looking devious and slightly tired: http://tinyurl.com/km585m

    I am sure you can find plenty in there to mock, and you'll have the benefit of being accurate this time. I wouldn't want you to embarrass yourself.

    Posted by: Alexandra at June 13, 2009 2:24 PM


    You are cute as the dickens, Alexandra. If you don't walk in lockstep on every point, sometimes the crap hits the fan around here. It happens. But the important thing is, we are all against abortion here, by and large, and even though the details behind the big picture concerning us might differ, we still have the ultimate goal, so there's that. Personally, I'm disappointed that Obama isn't willing to man up to the homosexual community, but he's not willing to risk losing the votes. Shame, too, because it'd probably be the only thing he'd ever do that I'd actually agree with. I think that recognized marriage within the government should be abolished in favor of civil unions available to every couple. If anyone wants theirs to be recognized by a religious entity, they can go have that done privately, and churches wouldn't have to recognize the "marriage"/civil union of homosexuals either, but the contract would still be binding and legal as any heterosexual's would be in the government's eyes. Seperation of church and state. (Your statement about religion is almost the exact boat I'm in, only, I've been in it for so long, I just don't see anything about it changing ever, so I'm more inclined to fancy myself an atheist entirely) I think allowing gays to freely adopt would be such a great thing for both the children in foster care and the childless couples seeking children. They were practically made for each other.

    You remind me a lot of my best from from college. She was in dance and theater too (and also shorter than me. :P). But she was blonde. I miss her dearly. Just keep staying true to yourself, because the only person you know you're going to have to stand to be around indefinitely is you.

    Posted by: xalisae at June 13, 2009 2:50 PM


    I majored in English with a focus on Old English, but I currently work in the theater industry, (mostly) as a carpenter or as a sound-board operator. My dream is to be a librarian.

    You go girl! :)

    Throughout my adolescence I studied ballet at one of the premier schools in the world. I play the piano and the cello.

    Wonderful instruments! Do you have a preference?

    My mom had cancer towards the end of that time, but she's okay now.

    Glad to hear she is well now!

    Posted by: angel at June 13, 2009 3:46 PM


    Oh, yes, xalisae, I agree with you 100% on basically all accounts. I feel pretty strongly about civil unions being separate from religious unions.

    I don't have much of an opinion either way on transgender issues. I do refer to people by the gender they prefer, as I would with names etc, because I do know women who prefer to look like men who then feel awkward if attention is drawn to their transgendered status in public through the use of pronouns. Sometimes I admit I'm frustrated with that mentality because I feel that to give in to the idea that it's okay for men to look a certain way but not women (or vice versa) is to be complicit in enforcing rigid gender roles -- a part of me wants to say, "Screw that, don't change who you are to fit defined roles, change the defined roles to fit who you are." But I do understand that maybe not everyone wants their every public motion to be a statement or something worthy of attention.

    And thank you for the compliment! Being "cute as the dickens" is only sometimes desirable, though! I'm working a one-day job today setting up and eventually taking down a corporate event thing. So it comes in from out of town, and a local crew (ie me & co-workers) builds/strikes it, under the direction of the out-of-towners who came with the truck. I got YELLED at by one of the guys in charge this morning for doing something everyone else was doing, something I am entirely capable of doing! The crew is people I have worked with on various occasions before, so on the one hand at least they know I'm not incompetent, but on the other I can't help worrying that seeing me get scolded and told not to do actual work will color their opinions of me, even just subconsciously, and maybe cost me jobs in the future.

    I was tempted to drill a hole through that guy's hand but I thought that would only make me look worse. Still, every time I started joining in on some heavy-labor task he would run over and be like, "You, little one, why don't you...velcro this thing to the edge of the stage? Sweep these leaves off?" etc. It was really embarrassing.

    Posted by: Alexandra at June 13, 2009 3:58 PM


    Oh, and angel, I can never decide which instrument I prefer. I studied the piano for much longer, but I studied the cello much more intensely, so I'm better with the cello. But every time I decide on a listening preference one way or the other, I hum a Brahms cello sonata or a Rachmaninoff piano concerto and it's all up in the air again.

    As for my mom, I mentioned this here before (I actually tried to only mention things I have discussed here before, but this in particular is different): it was actually very lucky, because when she got sick I was already at home, just barely recovering from my own health problems. At the time it felt like the end of the world, giving up a scholarship like that; I was so humiliated and mortified and ashamed, and I couldn't imagine my life continuing. But then I turned out to be in a perfect position to help my parents financially, and help my mom physically/emotionally -- I was already living at home and working full time when we found out she was sick. Both my sisters were away in college. So in some ways I'm very happy that I was sick enough to miss out on such a wonderful opportunity, because I ended up being exactly where I needed to be.

    Posted by: Alexandra at June 13, 2009 4:05 PM


    Oh, I love Boys Don't Cry. I actually originally watched it because I'm a Hilary Swank fan, and that was a stunning film, too.

    It would appear that just since Clinton's time the opinion on homosexuality has changed. In two years even the opinion on homosexuality has changed quite a lot.

    Posted by: Vannah at June 13, 2009 5:12 PM


    because I ended up being exactly where I needed to be.
    Posted by: Alexandra at June 13, 2009 4:05 PM

    now see, Alexandra, isn't God good! ;)

    Do you still play either? I play violin and piano. And yes I really love the cello too!

    Posted by: angel at June 13, 2009 5:58 PM


    It has Vannah! It's it's quickly becoming a non issue
    Posted by: Apple at June 13, 2009 6:38 PM

    may be for you, but for the rest of us: NOT!

    Posted by: angel at June 13, 2009 7:02 PM


    sweet Apple, no. We have truth on our side. Gays can pretend they are "married" all they want, but it don't make it so. :)

    Posted by: angel at June 13, 2009 7:27 PM



    How can this teen who was in an upper level class be this ignorant of her own body? But, I'm betting she knows all about condoms, the pill etc.

    Posted by: angel at June 13, 2009 12:59 PM

    Good point. Anyone who learns Natural Family Planning (NFP) would have to learn the basics about a woman's menstrual cycle. But that would be part of "abstinence education" and the liberal powers that be don't believe it's a good thing. Ignorance is the key to keeping the abortion industry in business.

    Posted by: Janet at June 13, 2009 7:35 PM


    Hi gang,

    There is quite ANOTHER STRATEGY re.abortion than the one spoken of here. If a thing is morally questionable, then most-often there will be difficulties in non-moral areas as well.

    In this case abortion is morally repugnant to most PL, so the only argumentation posed is a 'debate' about the morality of abortion. An additional problem occurs here because this moral-split is along political lines in the US and Canada. So we end up fighting s stupidity-war of ieol0gy. I call it a 'stupidity-war' because there is no resolution to this fiasco.

    Many decades ago a Ob-Gyn in New Zealand traced the moods of the pregnant women in his care. Of those some choose abortion. Of these 80% who 'chose' did so while in the 10th week; at the precise time of THE FIRST-PERIOD OF DEPRESSION DURING PREGNANCY (8-11 wks). A second period of depression starts at the very end of the 2nd trimester and continues for all of the 3rd trimester.

    Then there is a brief 'glitch' of euphoria at birth. [This might be do to the substantial release of endorphins at birthing.]

    There is also a deep-depression that begins shortly after the birth period, the famous & often suicidal, post-partem depression.

    Here is a little amo! 1) Abortion IS POOR/BAD medical practice (not just morally debatable). I mean nobody accepts the decisions of a depressed-person/patient as acceptably stable..... especially trained doctors. Is it possible to survey the women on this board to verify this finding?

    OTHER CONNECTED OBSERVATIONS:

    There are a # of additional points to consider: 2) these depression-periods are likely the result of a deficiency of zinc. They parallel exactly the periods that a developing baby uses as an special time for a large supply of zinc.
    3) meeting this deficiency would have profound societal effects besides ending the practice of abortion. A zinc-deficit has multiple applications: a bent toward depression .... toward alcohol abuse; towards most initial criminal behavior; towards PMS; etc, etc. Over 90% of all genetic disease come from inadequate zinc and vitamin B6, during pregnancy.

    More controversial, I even suspect that such a deficit is THE etiology for male homosexuality. There are two main reasons for this: a) males NEED much higher levels of zinc than females. (One may also ask why are so many males incarcerated ... as opposed to females?) [A 4th period of zinc-induced depression is at the onslaught of puberty.] b) Ancient Rome was noted for a high level (acceptance) of homosexuality as 'normal' behavior. It is now known that the Romans also poisoned themselves by their water system and its excess copper. Although necessary to much copper depresses zinc.

    I think that there has to be a concerted effort to have adequate nutrition for pregnancy. Failure to ensure this will only prolong the difficulties.. There is little doubt that there is under-nutrition for our poor .... including teens and black peoples. But there IS a malnutrition in all people.

    Posted by: John McDonell at June 13, 2009 7:47 PM


    Look I have read studies that say Sex-Ed is good and I have read studies that say Sex-Ed is bad. So who to believe? Look in my own mind, kids are getting a fairly consistent diet of what is sexually okay on T.V. and in movies. What we watch, the people we see, the input we take in, like food, manages to change the way we think and examine the world. Even Disney has thrown in the towel and in all but their animated films allow situations that teach things that will influence people to, well do it.

    look in reality it is our responsability to help each child understand their potential and what they can achieve, even if it is nothing more then a high standard or self understanding. I do not believe teaching children about sex will cause them to have sex. I do believe that teaching children about sex without helping them understand all the stuff that they have seen on T.V. and in Movies is a path to disaster for some teenagers. Others are unaffected by it all.

    Posted by: Innocentious at June 13, 2009 8:30 PM


    Hi John McD,

    Through my pregnancy, I can't recall specific time periods of depressed mood, although I probably had a few. I can understand intellectually how a woman's feelings of hopelessness from depression could cause her to feel the need to abort her child. It would be helpful if an OB doctor could give periodic depression tests (basic question/answer type) to pregnant women to evaluate their mental state. Giving test results to a woman considering abortion might give her pause - long enough to see if her decision changes when she comes out of her depression. The possible zinc connection is an interesting one.


    Posted by: Janet at June 13, 2009 10:10 PM


    John McD,

    Unrelated, did you see the video of the "talkative baby" on another thread? I'd like to hear your reaction. :)

    http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2009/06/lunch_break_tal.html#comments

    Posted by: Janet at June 13, 2009 10:18 PM


    Do you still play either? I play violin and piano. And yes I really love the cello too!

    I still play the cello. My parents sold the piano when my mom got sick, so it's been a while since I played that. But I only play recreationally. As with ballet, most of my education goes towards being a very enthusiastic audience member at this point. ;)

    Posted by: Alexandra at June 13, 2009 10:43 PM


    well maybe Alexandra you will someday get to have a piano again. I hope so, if this is something you love!
    I always wanted to play in an orchestra and my dream came true. You never know what might happen in the future.
    Keep playing that cello! :)

    Posted by: angel at June 13, 2009 10:48 PM


    If you don't walk in lockstep on every point, sometimes the crap hits the fan around here.

    Yeah, mostly the crap is thrown at the fan by the people not in lockstep. As usual.

    Posted by: Louise at June 14, 2009 4:42 AM


    Wow, those "How To Be A Victim 101" classes the right's been taking from liberals are really paying off. We'll be winning elections in no time if this keeps up. 9_9

    Posted by: xalisae at June 14, 2009 6:56 AM


    That's an interesting supposition, John. I think it should be studied more, and I'm interested at what the results might be. It would also explain why women were/are willing to actually cause physical harm to themselves through do-it-yourself abortions. I knew that there had to be some deeper psychological/biological motivation at work here...

    Posted by: xalisae at June 14, 2009 7:35 AM


    Dear John M.

    Your post was of great interest. I suffered from severe post-partum depression after my first child and had severe depression during my 4th pregnancy. I was happy to be pregnant but couldn't understand my depression which I told no one except my confessor who was very understanding and supportive and who prayed for me. I always had a difficult time maintaining good levels of folic acid and iron.
    We certainly need to see more research in this area. I'm thinking that the zinc deficiency may also exacerbate other serious factors involved in a difficult pregnancy such as non support from a woman's partner, friends and family. A woman without this support may be predisposed to aborting.

    Posted by: angel at June 14, 2009 8:59 AM



    John McD,

    Unrelated, did you see the video of the "talkative baby" on another thread? I'd like to hear your reaction. :)

    http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2009/06/lunch_break_tal.html#comments
    Posted by: Janet at June 13, 2009 10:18 PM
    .............................

    Hi janet,

    yes did see it, but thought it would have more relevance to parents who actually had the experience of raising a tot (unlike me).

    At this stage the human has a large supply of stem cells. It is thought to be for language acquisition. These cells soon die-off once a pimary language has been obtained.

    Posted by: John McDonell at June 14, 2009 9:05 AM


    for further info on zinc:

    http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/zinc/

    Posted by: angel at June 14, 2009 9:08 AM


    John McD,

    I knew you'd find an interesting angle on the video. Maybe the baby's parents should introduce several different foreign language tapes to her. It sounds like she's already mastered English. :)
    Have a good day!

    Posted by: Janet at June 14, 2009 1:08 PM


    Wow, those "How To Be A Victim 101" classes the right's been taking from liberals are really paying off. We'll be winning elections in no time if this keeps up.

    I have no problems with debating, X, but if either of us are playing victim here, it's you. And since I don't live in USA, I don't really care about your elections, except insofar as they are one gauge of the lack of health in the West.

    Posted by: Louise at June 14, 2009 9:02 PM


    "If you don't walk in lockstep on every point, sometimes the crap hits the fan around here. It happens."

    No blame was laid, I simply said that sometimes we don't agree, and conflict happens. I also was not addressing anyone besides Vannah, and I had no interest in starting a fight. It was said in an attempt to be supportive to a fellow pro-lifer who seemed as though she might appreciate it.

    Then Louise contributed:

    "Yeah, mostly the crap is thrown at the fan by the people not in lockstep. As usual.", blaming anyone with a different viewpoint than Louise for starting trouble. Also more of a complaint than what I said, hence the "victim" remark of mine. Personally, I feel that just because someone disagrees with me doesn't mean they are a worse or better person than I am, and I enjoy being given a run for my intellectual money. So I don't know where this "No, you!" accusation comes from, but oh well. I don't mind someone trying to pick a fights with me on principle, but at least do it right. Patricia was better. :(

    Posted by: xalisae at June 14, 2009 9:44 PM


    *pick a fight with me

    Also, I wasn't aware that America a.) was the only country with conservatives, and b.) was the only country that had elections?

    Posted by: xalisae at June 14, 2009 9:47 PM


    I was going by recent experience, X.

    Admittedly, Australia has a "left-wing" govt atm, but Canada, for example, does not.

    Finally, taking someone to task for her demonstrable incivility is not being a victim. It just tends to be the case that the people not "in lockstep" here are the more personally insulting. You're nice as pie as long as we stick to the things you agree with.

    Posted by: Louise at June 15, 2009 2:34 AM


    Finally, taking someone to task for her demonstrable incivility is not being a victim. It just tends to be the case that the people not "in lockstep" here are the more personally insulting.

    Given that the action that initiated this whole discussion was ken's comment to me after I asked a polite, relevant, and well-meaning question about a TV show Jill had previously discussed, I'm not sure how true that is. I wouldn't mind being helped to understand where my demonstrable incivility came in.

    Posted by: Alexandra at June 15, 2009 6:47 AM


    You mean nobody here wants to fawn praise over Obama for his administrations' affirming the anti-gay, DOMA legislation? That is surprising. Funny, all of the more liberal segment is openly outraged about it, but the right is eerily silent. It's like they don't want to admit they agree with him on something.


    Maybe it is because they don't trust him -- he does some things out of political expediency. He is also known for saying one thing and then actually doing the opposite. He is very duplicitous. Maybe it is because although he is not supportive of the military, he is smart enough to know that we need them and that he better not discourage too many people from enlisting, etc.
    Most people are not well informed about same sex attraction, the homosexual lifestyle and transgender disorder and that is not entirely their fault as the media does not present the facts on these matters. Hollywood definitely skews the truth. We must love our neighbor but to confirm someone in a lifestyle that is damaging physically, emotionally and spiritually, or to pretend that it is acceptable to mutilate oneself is not compassion.


    Posted by: Eileen #2 at June 15, 2009 2:23 PM


    How many of you who are so adamantly against abortion have actually had one? Probably more of you than would like to admit it.

    Here's my (opposing) view: www.20somethingmom.com.

    Posted by: Chelsea at June 18, 2009 3:21 PM