So far the investigation has not revealed what the motive was - so for the President to jump to conclusions regarding such an event is deeply, deeply disturbing. I do not want my president speculating spuriously, because people act upon his words.

This is very, very dangerous.

Obama's movement will greatly suffer if they try to connect the killer of Dr Tiller with pro life movements. Pro life supports the sanctity of life. We also were outraged with the handling of Terry Schaivo. Mr Obama was unable to let us know when life became worthy of protection.

Obama is a sick man.

If this had been a pro life doctor or a peaceful protestor who had been run over by a car driven by a worker at an abortion mill, there would be NO outrage from the President. It wouldn't make national news, there would be no anger from the 'poor choice' side. Because it was a man that killed 'innocent children in the womb who committed NO CRIME' (except being conceived) its being called an assassination of a "Hero for women's rights".

What a double standard.

The man in custody appears to be mentally unbalanced and associated with a number of fringe groups... his association with the pro-life movement appears to be limited to one or two random postings on OR's website. To state that Dr. Tiller was killed by a pro-lifer is a far stretch indeed. This is a tragedy, of course, as is any act of violence. Unfortunately, our current administration views tragedies and crises as ways of advancing their radical agenda.

Many benefits to the administration in yesterday's shooting. They get to look less foolish for calling peaceful prolife workers "terrorists", they get a reason to ridicule and demean gun ownership, and they get rid of a thorn in Sebelius' side.

Here is was unwilling to act impulsiveley and emotionally with his Supreme court nominee and he is willing to blame immediately for this event. Will he put this on guns, President Bush and of course, Alberto Gonzalez? (note to Sotomayor. Dr Tiller was on Old white man. Not a compelling story)

Please point out the "blind hatred". For what... murder? We've condemned the murder of Tiller. Many of us were praying for his conversion and his premature death by this violence at the hands of a man who bears no reasonable connection to the pro-life movement has denied us the chance to see this much prayed for turn of events.

We are saddened. We are sickened. But blind hatred? Not from this site... not from those who regularly post here in support of life... all life... even Tillers.

What is it that you are proud of? Millions of babies old enough to survive outside the womb, given the proper care, murdered for for pay? Or how the leaders on the left and in the pro-choice movement are capitalizing on Tiller's death to further their agenda by linking his death to the prolife movement with no evidence to back it up?

This is the best possible thing that could happen for Obama. In one fell swoop he got pro-lifers, gun-rights supporters, and tax protesters.

Outrage is probably the last emotion he's feeling right now.

I'm outraged that because of the actions of one man acting alone, an entire movement is tarnished.

I'm outraged because Tiller could have been converted, and worked for good. Instead he was killed and made a pro-choice martyr.

The only good we can hope for in this sitaution is that Tiller repented before his death.

Elisabeth,
The pro-aborts don't answer those types of question, certainly not with any detail. What they are saying though makes no logical sense. Somehow a person getting killed makes them more pro-choice to kill then they have ever been. Making sense has never been a requirement for the pro-choice to kill camp.

I couldn't agree more with Ellisabeth.

Farslowe what post have you read? Have you read ALL the posts? I will speak for many of us here that we are all about the sanctity of ALL LIFE, from CONCEPTION to NATURAL DEATH. I would never approve of killing someone, EVER!!! And take great offense that you would think that pro-lifers aren't what we say we are: PRO-LIFE.

As I read the posts, many espressed how they have prayed for the conversion of Dr. Tiller. Many are NOW praying for his family and his soul. This is who we really are.

Take a moment and really listen to Fr. Pavone's Youtube message.

Someone connected him with the anti gov andti tax movement. And today the government seized General Motors. I am outraged. Mr Obama killing a company becuse you are intolerant of it's values> Europe is calling it for what it is.

Farslowe, Emma: Yes, I agree there has been quite a bit of blind hatred displayed here - by your side. Have had to delete several comments, like this one from "Bob":

Rot in hell, you worthless terrorist c*** whore. The blood is on your hands, you vile b*****. You deserve to be sh** on, b*****.

As for the rest of the discussion about the murder of George Tiller, it has been civil, bearing the double tragedies in mind that a man who unjustly murdered thousands of babies was unjustly murdered himself.

xppc I think the idea is to try to save jobs - although I did hear that 20,000 more will lose their jobs because of the bankruptcy. They should not have propped up the company.

As for Tiller's killer, he is connected to some anti-government group. According to what I've read he's refused to file income tax returns and so forth. As I stated on another thread, I'm wondering if he is an anarchist.

xppc, 9:03am

Exactly. The guy belonged to an anti government group, much like the friends of Obama's, ayers and Dohrn.
He was fanatical about a lot of things, not just abortion and considered dangerous.
Why isn't there outrage at the group he belonged to? This man was a walking timebomb, if it hadn't been tiller it would have been someone else. For all we know there may be someone else!

Hi Jill,

Don't these idiots like Bob realize this Roeder belonged to an anti government group? He was fanatical and dangerous.
why aren't they going after anti-government groups?

"However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence." - Barack Obama

Wow, by this statement, the great uniter just classified and implied all pro-lifers as guilty of and in concert with the murder of Dr. Tiller, did he not? (English majors, please diagram the above sentence. Does not "our differences" imply two opposing points of view, i.e., those that are pro-abortion versus those that are pro-life?)

So, let's see Mr. President, your innate prejudices towards pro-lifers has just been punked, right? What was that you just said about BAIPA, Mr. President......you'd like all pro-lifers to go where..........?

I mean didn't you just condemn a majority of Americans? Oh, it is so refreshing to see the true Barack Obama, the inner Barack Obama, the very rabid pro-abort Barack Obama, the very hateful Barack Obama, the hate everything Christian and conservative Barack Obama be revealed in all its ugly glory.

Now how will you backtrack today Mr. Obama? How's Mr. Gibbs gonna smile and look stupid for you today Mr. Obama? What, that's not what you really meant? For God's sake Mr. President, imagine saying something stupid to the Chicoms, or Iranians or North Koreans, Mr. Obama. You think you should actually think before you spill what you really mean to the world, i.e., those that have or, becuase of your weakness, will soon have ultimate solution devices (nukes)?

I wonder if Obama's broad strokes include people like Fr. Jenkins of Notre Dame and Doug Kmiec of Pepperdine? After all, these guys are "pro-life" aren't they? I mean they think Barack Obama is on the pro-life side, don't they?

Has anyone heard any comments from Jenkins or Kmiec on Obama's press release? I would think the manly thing do to for Jenkins and Kmiec would be to protest Obama's over-generalizations, don't you? These two guys stand for truth don't they? Here's your chance guys to stand up for all pro-lifers as you claimed you were doing by allowing Obama to speak at Notre Dame. What was that, double mindedness, what, huh, oh...........

And by the way Fr. Jenkins and Mr. Kmiec, here's a chance for both of you to defend the truth that pro-lifers are against murder, all murder and that the common ground that pro-choicers and pro-lifers share is that we all want the need for murder to be reduced.

So, if Obama is outraged against murder, why is he not outraged against abortion? Somebody please tell me this because the left side of my brain actually hurts when I try to make sense of this. Ouch, anyone got a Tylenol, a left-side Tylenol (not left-wing Tylenol)?

I know Mr. Obama, this is ALL very much above your pay grade. Then, why don't you just resign? Take Biden, Pelosi and Reid with you while your at it.

Saul Alinsky's book Rules for Radicals. ...

http://vodpod.com/watch/1128427-bill-ayers-book-prairie-fire-reveals-shocking-discovery

Bill Ayers wrote Prairie Fire. Also a dedication of terrorists SirHan SirHan and other political prisoner. Will Roeder be classified if we use Ayers template?

"Don't these idiots like Bob realize this Roeder belonged to an anti government group? He was fanatical and dangerous.
why aren't they going after anti-government groups?

Posted by: Mary at June 1, 2009 9:30 AM"
-------------------------------

You mean anti-US groups right?

Well, they'd have to go after themselves and their friends, i.e., Wright and Ayers.

Is anyone beginning to see just what a big mistake Barack Obama was?

Has anyone got a clue?

The man in custody appears to be mentally unbalanced and associated with a number of fringe groups..............

Posted by: Elisabeth at June 1, 2009 8:28 AM
-----------------------------------

No c'mon, Obama did it?

Oh Please, Emma. I said that I was outraged that he was killed. You're looking to be offended, and intentionally misrepresenting what I said.

Anyone who thinks this helps the pro life movement is wrong. The other side will and is taking full advantage of this.
Fr. Pravone was right We were close to resolving this in a peaceful and lawful method. This not only was wrong but even though it certainly appears this man was not associated with any leg. pro life group it will be painted that way. Also, Dr. Tiller never had a chance to repent and turn away from this. This is a sad day for sure.

"Emma," I'm surprised you're still commenting, since you stated that, in your outrage, you were leaving this site. Let's see how long you can stay away, since you have already been banned once and have attempted to come back several times.

Jill,

No Christian or pro-lifer would write that filth.

Seems like lots of agent provocateur action all around.

What "truth" Emma? Here is verbatium what I posted on my facebook about the issue. " bit late on this, but I was out of town yesterday. I just want to make a statement that I condemn the murder of George Tiller. I hope he made peace with God before his death."

No support for Tiller's murderer there!

There is an awful lot of hate and venom being spewed from both sides right now. The best thing Pro-Lifers can do right now is defuse the situation by prayer and fasting for those who would kill the most innocent of society. We need to pray not only for Obama, but for all people who have so much hate in their hearts that their most single desire is to kill innocent babies.

God demands of us that we love these people into His kingdom. We can't hate them in. Let the abortionists be the people of hate while we continue to be the people of love...

Hey Emma:

Ya know how you're always dissing Jesus Christ and that kind of stuff, ya know the guy that was murdered on the cross, in front of his family and friends? Ya know how you minimize his crucifixion and all that stuff?

Well, now that your idol, Dr. Tiller has been murdered and you're outraged and all at us pro-lifers, even though Jesus Christ laid down his own life and didn't take others' lives and even though we have strongly protested Dr. Tiller's murder, do you have some sense of how us believers feel when people like you say all kinds of mean things about the Prince of Peace?

Should we scream and say we're going to make everything you say against the Rose of Sharon hate speech?

Ya know Emma, when it comes to truth, you haven't got a clue.

Oh get off your high horse, Emma. We have been nothing but gracious about this entire situation. Everyone is praying for Tiller's family and if they believe it is appropriate to do so, his soul. No one is lauding his murderer, no one is supporting the murder.

We are all saddened to hear of this news. Stop with the crocodile tears.

This is my last comment for probably a long while Kel.

Posted by: Emma at June 1, 2009 10:13 AM

Promises, promises...

Was Barry outraged at the innocent lives lost as a result of his friend Ayers terrorist activities?

Since when does a President issue a statement like this on a civilian death?

Once again issuing a statement which divides not unites people.

"Emma," perhaps you are the one who needs to learn that coming back under different names after having been banned is pretty ridiculous.

Take care now.

Did the President issue a statement when that pastor was shot in church?

"Bring tea for the Tillerman. Steak for the sun.
Wine for the woman who made the rains come.
Seagulls sing your hearts away, 'cause while
sinners sin the children play. Oh lord how they
play and play. For that happy day, for that happy day."

Cat Stevens - 1970

Stevens turned Muslim

President Obama needs to take a moral stand on abortion. No more of this wishy washy "It's a woman's personal choice between her doctor, lawyer, plumber, whatever." It is NOT above his pay grade to recognize that each product of conception is a human being. Who in the media will have the guts to ask President Obama the tough question again? When does life begin?

Did the President issue a statement when that pastor was shot in church?

Good point, hippie. I read last night that Tiller is the 9th person killed in a church in 2009. Is PBHO "shocked and outraged" about the other eight?

I'm so shocked and sad about Tiller's death, I could cry. I think most pro-lifers feel the same way.

Jill,

God bless you for your courageous stand for Life! May His Angels protect you continually and keep you from harm in this sin-sick world.

Janet,
Me too!! I am so sickened by what happened!

Hal,
Please pay close attention to what the media is saying about prolifers.(Anti-choicers, anti-abortion terrorists) If you were to be intellectually honest with yourself you would disagree with how they are portraying those that you know and love here.

Pro-lifers are consistent. They are shocked and outraged by the vigilante murder of George Tiller...

Randall Terry is not so outraged:
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/8967610531.html
"George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God."

I'm a Plfer. I don't even own a gun. I stand out in the middle of the ghetto with no weapons. God protects me. I'm not going to allow anyone here to put me on the lunatic wagon. If I were not a law abiding citizen, I'd be incarcerated. I'm not going to apologize for anyone else's actions. When a disgruntled postal worker shoots up his job, should we BLAME ALL POSTAL WORKERS???

Posted by: heather at June 1, 2009 11:00 AM

Janet,
In fact, I did cry. For years, we all hoped he would just stop the murders. When I was told, the realization that he would never murder another baby ever again hit me first. Was I glad that babies would no longer be murdered by him? YES. However, that gladness didn't crossover to what happened to Tiller. The chilling details of his murder shocked me to tears. The vigilantism has now ended any hope of Tiller converting to the pro-life cause.

While none of us know for sure whether he was able to have any time to ask for forgiveness for his murdering of 60,000+ babies, I still prayed for his soul. However our Lord deals with George Tiller--it will be just.

Kay, agreed. It's too late for Tiller. My focus will now turn to other abortion providers. I pray today that you will free them from bondage lord!

"..a man who unjustly murdered thousands of babies was unjustly murdered himself."

Jill..oh so true...but the Pro-aborts and their president will milk this until the cows come home...they will make Tiller a "martyr" for the cause of death.

Obama, on the other hand, thought so highly of KS Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, who was central to averting justice of Tiller and thereby increased the odds of senseless vigilantism, he promoted her to a federal position.

You're blaming the victim, Jill. Thats SUPER CLASSY!

Randall Terry should have condemned the murder.

I'm not that shocked or surprised at Tiller's death though. You reap what you sow.

I'm outraged to the same extent that I am toward any murder. What Roeder allegedly did was despicable. But no more despicable than what Tiller did on a daily basis.

I mourn Tiller's death the same way I would Hitler's, Stalin's or Saddam Hussein's. (Which is to say, not much.) All of us are given a short time on Earth to either lay up treasure and rewards in Heaven or judgments in Hell.

While it certainly appears Tiller was destined for the latter, if he did repent, Our Merciful Lord would have received him.

Regardless, there are a lot of unborn babies that are much better off now that Tiller has embarked on his eternal destiny.

Satan has lost one of his best servants.

YLT,

You should brush up on your reading comprehension. Jill blamed Sebelius for protecting Tiller from justice.

She didn't blame Tiller.

Kay:

So Tiller performed more than 60,000 abortions?

That's pretty shocking.

Just think if he performed just one, that's 1, a singularity, for the wrong reason, let alone 60,000.

Luke 13:34
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Luke 18:16
But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Do abortionists, by their very acts of murdering a child in the womb, cause a child, i.e. a mother to sin?

And by the way, I've never had the privilege of meeting Jill, but everything I've read or heard about her or from her has been First Class!

Keep up the great work Jill!

Can somebody explain to me how this act of violence on late term abortionist George Tiller is any different than a late term abortion?

The thread heading states..."THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE May 31, 2009 STATEMENT FROM THE PRESIDENT
ON THE MURDER OF DR. GEORGE TILLER"

Where's the Press Secretary's immediate release and statement about the name of the last child George Tiller and the baby's mom murdered on Saturday?

Can somebody explain to me how this act of violence on late term abortionist George Tiller is any different than a late term abortion?

Posted by: TheOnlyThing2Fear at June 1, 2009 12:06 PM

In God's eyes, no, because there is no difference.

If abortion was illegal in the U.S., like it used to be, I believe Tiller would have been culpable for murder. I'm sure someone out there knows how our legal system prosecuted abortionists before 1973.

Can somebody explain to me how this act of violence on late term abortionist George Tiller is any different than a late term abortion?

Posted by: TheOnlyThing2Fear at June 1, 2009 12:06 PM

In God's eyes, no, because there is no difference.

If abortion was illegal in the U.S., like it used to be, I believe Tiller would have been culpable for murder. I'm sure someone out there knows how our legal system prosecuted abortionists before 1973.

I am in total agreement, Hisman, ONE is too many and is shocking. I see the number 60,000 and think of a good-sized city obliterated in an instant, but we must never forget the loss of each individual.

Thank you for the Scriptures.

OnlyThing:

What happened on Saturday?

What did Dr. Tiller do?

How do you know?

When a disgruntled postal worker shoots up his job, should we BLAME ALL POSTAL WORKERS???

Posted by: heather at June 1, 2009 11

FedEx and UPS could use it to show that the inefficiency of the USPS drives its own workers mad. Boy, did they let that crisis go to waste. They just aren't as savvy as Axelrod and company.

I hope this never happens again.

Remember SOMG, the abortionist who used to post on this site?

I wonder how he's feeling?

Anyone know how to contact him?

"Can somebody explain to me how this act of violence on late term abortionist George Tiller is any different than a late term abortion? "
----------------------------------------

Thinking from a pro-abort point of view...the difference is that the unborn was unwanted.

Did the President issue a statement when that pastor was shot in church?
Posted by: hippie at June 1, 2009 10:31 AM

I'm sure he didnt.

Hi Joanne, 3:40PM

I don't know if Obama issued a statement either concerning the 7 shooting deaths that just took place in a 24 hour period in Chicago.
Apparently only select shootings are worthy of outrage.
Perhaps Obama was too busy on the "date" to a Broadway show with his wife that cost the taxpayers $24,000.

Mary,

It's strange because last night I was thinking Tiller could not have been the only person murdered yesterday.

If "pro-lifers" were consistant then why was this site and others scrubbed and moderated so vigorously. Obviously, both the statement and the consistancy described are deeply in question.

I am glad this site is moderated. I don't have to read blasphemous comments or profanity directed at peaceful pro lifers who do truly care about the women facing a crisis pregnancy and truly want to HELP them.

re: Ed at June 1, 2009 11:46 AM

There is no one to blame for the murder of Dr. Tiller but the man who murdered him. Any other response is just more passing the buck. It's ironic that anti-choicers are all about women "taking responsability for their choices", but they cannot take responsability for their own choices.

Hey, some fruitcake killed Tiller. To the extent that he's connected with the Pro-Life movement, the Pro-Life movement is going to suffer.

I've seen nuts advocate such - killing somebody like Tiller - on this very site as well as quite a few other places.

You make your bed, you lie in it, no matter how much whining and moaning and hand-wringing you are capable of. It's the real world.

What do you mean by they "can't take responsibility for there own choices"? Enough with all the euphamisms, you're not pro-choice, you're pro-abortion.As we know,the baby has no choice.Enough with the choice garbage be honest about your position. Pro-life people are consistent, and as a further point, we don't have to hide among euphamism in an effort to persuade the masses to our point of view.I view the killing of Tiller as an unfortunate ending to a life that served to extinguish other life.He should not have been murdered, however calling it a tragedy is not quite accurate.He lived his life making money off of dead babies. Anyone who chooses such a reckless, immoral lifestyle is bound to incur additional risks.Its a shame he was murdered before he was able to repent.Perhaps in the afterlife he will have another chance.

Doug said, "I've seen nuts advocate such - killing somebody like Tiller - on this very site..."

Really? On the one hand, I can remember past accusations to the same--but they weren't bourne out by the actual evidence. Hisman and Jasper have used militant language, but they aren't in favour of becoming vigilantes (taking justice into their own hands rather than letting the proper authorities deal with it). Where's your proof?

If you are the same Doug that I remember debating with, then you are "pro-choice," i.e. you are not in favour of having the law prevent women from killing somebody. And we're not just talking about one person, we're talking about millions of people. It's the fault of people like you that human life is treated with contempt, that people go about killing each other. You make your bed, you lie in it, no matter how much whining and moaning and hand-wringing you are capable of. It's the real world.

For the record, Mr. Tiller was himself a "fruitcake." Such people aren't only restricted to California, the land of fruits and nuts. But he was still a human being--just like Mr. Hitler, Mr. Roeder, yourself, and myself--and he could only be judged and punished by the proper authorities. The civil and ecclesiastical courts failed in their job, but that doesn't allow any civilian to violate the established order of things.

Doug, did you ever report that? If it bothered you that much, you indeed should have.

"There is no one to blame for the murder of Dr. Tiller but the man who murdered him. Any other response is just more passing the buck. It's ironic that anti-choicers are all about women "taking responsability for their choices", but they cannot take responsability for their own choices."
Posted by: Yo La Tengo at June 1, 2009 6:18 PM

Glad to see you've come to your senses and realize that all pro-lifers are not responsible for this abortionist's murder.

What responsibilities are we avoiding?

Who has been advocating the killing of abortionists on this website? I don't get to read as much as I like but I haven't read any posts from any pro-lifer who has said anything like that. In fact, they have expressed sorrow.
What I have noticed is the tendency to paint all pro-lifers as terrorists or extremists by many pro-choicers.

Mary, the white house refuses to state how much the date night cost... the British press is estimating closer to $1million for all costs.

Doug said, "I've seen nuts advocate such - killing somebody like Tiller - on this very site..."

After cooler and more rational reflection, I would have to agree, Doug. Pro-choicers like you have frequently come to this site to advocate killing people (or to say with a straight face that they aren't deserving people). To be sure, there were some notable differences between Mr. Tiller and the sixty thousand people he killed:

* Mr. Tiller was older and bigger,
* Mr. Tiller was less dependent, and
* Mr. Tiller was less innocent.

There were also some notable similarities:

* Mr. Tiller and his sixty thousand victims were all people, and
* Mr. Tiller and his sixty thousand victims are all dead.

There's one more notable difference between Mr. Tiller and the sixty-thousand people he killed: American law protected his life but not their lives. Truly open-minded liberals see an urgent need to change the law. However, the "nuts" who come to this site to advocate killing are die-hard conservatives, completely unreceptive to change and hope. Roe herself now agrees with Wade, and still they mindlessly trumpet the "Roe vs. Wade" court decision, Senator Obama going so far as to countenance infanticide in order to "protect" abortion.

I said, "[A]nd still they mindlessly trumpet the "Roe vs. Wade" court decision..." They should refer to Doug's nuts: pro-choicers like Doug, President Obama, and the many who come to this site in order to advocate violence.

Jon,
I am hoping you meant that Norma McCorvey, the Roe of Roe V Wade now DISagrees with it.

http://www.leaderu.com/norma/

Yes, Carla, thank you. The Roe of the Roe-Wade decision by the Supreme Court was Norma McCorvey. She now disagrees with the decision that struck down abortion laws in the United States.

Jasper's Quote of the Day for June 3:

When law and morality contradict one another, we tend either to lose our morals or lose our respect for the law. Perhaps that explains why some, like Dr. Tiller, no longer see a moral problem with partial-birth abortion and some, like his executioner, take the law into their own hands.

~ President of Family Action Council TN David Fowler, June 2nd.