Jivin J's Life Links 8-21-09

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  • South Dakota's informed consent law has been upheld in part. From the AP:

    U.S. District Judge Karen Schreier's decision Thursday ends a lawsuit that Planned Parenthood MN, ND, SD filed in response to a 2005 informed consent law that required several disclosures to women seeking an abortion....

    She sided with the state in ruling that doctors must make the biological disclosure "that the abortion will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique, living human being."

    But Schreier said doctors can provide more information than the language in the statute, including that the term can be used in a biological sense and not ideological.

    Schreier ruled in favor of PP by concluding that pregnant women do not need to be told abortion increases the likelihood of suicide or that they have an existing relationship with the fetus.

    Both sides claimed victory.

    There's a little more information on the judge's reasoning at the Argus-Leader.

  • According to the Omaha World-Herald, abortionist LeRoy Carhart recently laid off 4 of his ten staff members because of "the recent decrease in patient numbers and income."
  • Doctors in India have injected a man's own bone marrow stem cells into his brain in the hopes that they will help treat his Parkinson's symptoms:

    While the doctors who performed the transplant said that they will monitor the patient for the next 18 months before terming it a "success," Jain said the transplant has helped him regain his voice.

  • Comments:

    I thought this was interesting, given that issues involving transgender news are often posted here: nytimes.com/2009/08/21/sports/21runner.html The article is pretty insensitive at some parts, but interesting in terms of subject matter.

    A runner is having her sex tested after winning races easily, to verify that she does not have too many male characteristics to compete in women's events. The article touches on some of the situations in which it is necessary to do chromosome or hormone testing to determine this, ie sometimes women produce testosterone from the adrenal glands, and some hermaphrodites appear "normal" but have both ovaries and testes, etc.

    It is worth noting that the runner in question has always identified as a woman, from childhood on; and that this inquiry is not the first of its kind, because they are made when opponents request it. So the fact of the inquiry itself does not say anything about this young woman, and I think it's especially cruel that the investigating body did not take greater precautions to protect her privacy in this matter.

    Anyway I thought it was interesting to read that in athletics, it is generally acknowledged that it is not always simple to decide who is "male enough" or "female enough" to compete in specific events. Given that so many think that things like transsexuality or homosexuality are mental disorders, I find this subject interesting. I wonder: if someone who physically resembles a woman can be "too male" to compete with other women, then is it so implausible that someone who resembles a woman could feel "too male" to identify with women as a gender?

    I also am intrigued by the idea that some innate but extraordinary circumstances -- hormone levels, etc -- are seen as unfair in competition, but others -- talent, body composition, etc -- are not.

    I feel very badly for the woman in question, who should be celebrating winning the gold medal rather than fending off cruel remarks and invasive examinations. But I thought people here might find it interesting.

    Posted by: Alexandra at August 21, 2009 2:23 PM

    It's interesting to me how a fact (abortion increases suicide risk) can be seen as a bias, simply because it involves a highly controversial subject. And honestly, I'm perfectly okay with not requiring that abortion patients be informed that they're attached to the baby. Honestly, I can see how this statement would seem highly biased. But the argument about suicide risk is a valid concern. If I were going in for ANY treatment that was associated with increased suicide, I would want to know as much.

    Heck, I can't count the number of PPD pamphlets I received after giving birth to our son! My Ob, his pediatrician, the hospital... and a number of times in the mail, even... I received a ton of information on PPD vs. Baby Blues.

    Yet with an abortion, the increased suicide risk is often seen as a pro-life myth/bias. It really grates on my nerves that so many people are willing to ignore reality in favor of their political ideals, particularly insofar as it affects lives. Of course, I have the same frustration over abortion itself...

    As far as the other two articles, awesome to hear that Carhart isn't thriving as happily as he expected in the abortion industry these days! :) And the stem cell research issue has me totally boggled. Adult stem cells have done far more for science, and with far fewer side effects, than embryonic stem cells. I also read something about Canada seeing success using embryonic fluid stem cells. It doesn't make sense to me that our scientific community would persist so doggedly with embryonic stem cells when they have such better alternatives!

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 21, 2009 4:34 PM

    Here's a link for you guys - a news article I just found about hospital medication errors resulting in accidental abortions and premature births. Very sad. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8383062

    I'm interested to hear Jill Stanek's take on this since she's a nurse, herself. I do think doctors could stand to have more legible handwriting but I also think nurses (or whomever is dispensing the medication to the patient) need to be really sure about dosage and even if they are giving the right medication. Particularly with a labor-inducing drug given to a woman not at term. I wonder why the nurses apparently didn't know that the women involved were not carrying deceased babies but on bed rest to try to preserve the lives of their babies. I thought that nurses at least knew that type of basic fact about their patients (what they were hospitalized for).

    Posted by: army_wife at August 21, 2009 6:08 PM

    I agree, MaryRose. I can't understand why people refuse to treat this as something that is difficult, that it's not some easy choice that women make out of the blue on their way to work (before the Starbucks, of course) and there's no issue physically.

    Pro-choice or pro-life, this is a complicated issue. I don't understand why pro-choicers refuse to acknowledge that it's not perfect. Well, actually, if they acknowledge it (which is pretty rare), I go ahead and call them pro-choice. If not, then I call them anti-equal rights or anti-fetal rights or pro-misogyny or something (depending on the person and his or her reasons for not supporting human rights).

    If only people were allowed to be educated...

    Really, women are smarter than to not know that the child is a child. They know that. But they may still have some questions and concerns about the child and what is happening to him or her. Knowing that he or she is a person doesn't constitute knowing everything about abortion. I certainly don't know everything about it, but I know that they're people with rights, too.

    Just don't understand people...

    Posted by: Vannah at August 21, 2009 6:23 PM

    MaryRose you have brought up a good point, the pro-aborts are so committed to making sure abortion is accomodated and even embraced that they will not even admit that adult and cord blood stem cells are the only type stem cells with proven scientific positive results for cures. Dr. Oz gave an excellent explaination of this to Michael J. Fox on Oprah's show a couple of months ago, where he talked about "the debate about using embryonic stem cell is over because we now know that using a person's own adult stem cells is where we really are going to find cures to help people with Parkinson's Disease" (I am paraphrasing this a little). Michael J. Fox just sat there and said nothing at all, like he was dumbfounded.

    Posted by: Prolifer L at August 21, 2009 6:24 PM


    Your comment about women being smarter than not knowing that a child is a child... I would say that truly educated women-women who bother to look it up and really research fetal development-are absolutely smarter. However, I feel that the abortion industry is trying hard to keep women in the dark about the reality of abortion, and although they're failing, there are women who are allowing themselves to be fooled.

    Teen girls come to mind as an example of women who have been deceived by the abortion industry. Of course, there are also plenty of women who choose to close their eyes and ears to the reality. It's convenient.

    Had an interesting thought the other day. What if during ultrasounds, abortion clinics were required to offer to disclose the gender where possible? I mean, I know it's not a realistic goal or anything, but could you imagine elective abortion rates when the moms were being told "and there's the fetus, remember, at this point it's just a bunch of cells, and it looks like it's a girl..."

    Your little girl "non-person"... It doesn't really fit, does it?

    That blob of cells is a little boy. There's the blob of finger cells, and there's the blob of heart cells, and there's the blob of kidney cells...

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 21, 2009 8:53 PM

    I got my health book last week or so, and it talks about fetal development. :)

    I'm happy to be learning this kind of stuff, and how we can improve women's health. It makes me so pleased with the situation. Actually, the book only refers to them as "fetus" when it's discussing practical terms, such as spinal development. Just like it refers to men as "males" and women as "females."

    Other than that, the fetus is called a baby in my book. :)

    I agree with you. The clinics should tell the gender, fetal development, and all of that. Let women know these things.

    And, yes, definitely there are women who refuse to accept the reality of the child's humanity, but in general women don't just out of the blue not want to think of their children as people. They have to be provoked by seriously stressful circumstances. And, yes, obviously we as women need to stop acting so helpless- we're not weak; we're strong and we need to learn how to not make ourselves victims- and we DEFINITELY need to change societies punishing women who choose not to abort. Let's face it, they're considered little, irresponsible [sexist word that I hate] if they choose single motherhood and how could they contribute to poverty?

    It's nasty, and there are so many attitudes that need to change. I'll start with letting people get educated before they make this decision and helping to ease this so that they don't feel like they need one: now, when will abortionists get with the program?

    Soon, I hope.

    Posted by: Vannah at August 21, 2009 9:33 PM

    I don't think they should have overturned the part about mental health (suicide). That's important to know, especially if a woman has a history of mental health issues.

    Posted by: LizFromNebraska at August 21, 2009 10:27 PM

    I never had any fetal development taught to me in school, no sex ed in school or at home. Yes, women should be smarter about fetal development. I should have been smarter than to go to an abortion clinic when I didn't want to and think that they would help me. They lie. They flat out lie and also lie by omission. They prey upon young women in crisis. They asked me questions like
    Do you have a job? A husband? A career? A nice apartment? A nice car? Do you have any money? How in the world are you going to be a good mom?

    Suicide IS a risk after abortion whether one has a history of mental illness or not. I had suicidal thoughts and made one attempt.

    Women should be told everything before an abortion. ALL of the risks, all of it. There should be no mistaking that her baby will be alive when she goes in and dead when she comes out and she will never be the same.

    I wish I could find the quote about how a woman wants an abortion like a trapped animal wants to gnaw its leg off to escape. Fitting for some of us.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 21, 2009 11:17 PM

    Carla- the quote you're looking for is by Frederica Matthewes-Green. She states:

    "No-one wants an abortion as she wants an ice-cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal, caught in a trap, wants to gnaw off it’s own leg. Abortion is a tragic attempt to escape a desperate situation by an act of violence and self-loss.”

    Posted by: Michelle at August 22, 2009 4:50 AM

    Thank you, Michelle.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 22, 2009 7:21 AM

    All of the fetal development information means nothing to a scared young teen girl forced to abort by her parents or boyfriend. Happens everyday.

    There is no one right way to reach women who are considering abortion. Some are completely hardened and are having their 4th one, knowing exactly how far along she is and how developed that baby is.
    Some are terrified and alone and long for ANYTHING else, but the only choice seems to be abortion.(How is that choice?)
    Some change their minds on the table but have been held down and aborted anyway.
    Some would NEVER have had one, had abortion been illegal or they knew then what they know now.
    Some just need a shoulder to cry on and an ear to listen and time to think. They need someone to pray with them and befriend them.

    We have to meet them where they are. We have to reach out and offer to walk with them in these moments. We have to offer hope. We have to be strong for them!! Helplessness is situational. Empowerment comes from knowledge and support. Pregnancy care centers and maternity homes offer so much to so many.

    All of those women sobbing in the recovery room and sobbing out to their cars after their abortions hardly look empowered.

    I have been given the privilege of walking beside a young college student pressured to abort by the baby's father. She didn't know what to do but she didn't want an abortion. So we walked together and talked together and she shared her dreams and hopes and fears with me. Her daughter was born almost a month ago and adopted into a loving, Christian family. I offered this young mom everything I wanted for myself back in 1990 before I had my abortion.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 22, 2009 7:43 AM

    Wow Carla- we are on the same wavelength- I wrote the remainder of this post earlier when I found the quote for you but then cut it out because I thought I was rambling....

    (referring to the FMG quote above...)

    What's interesting about this quote is that several pro-abortionists reprinted it- but only up to the end of the second sentence. Frederica concluded that pro-abortionists agree that women agonize over their abortion decision/s, but disagree that it's a violent, self-depricating tragedy. I use this quote a lot, and I think it is a very helpful analogy, because the post-abortive women I have counselled are definitely missing a "limb."

    An animal in a trap has three possible outcomes: he can chew off her leg and get out, alive but forever changed, or she can wait for someone to come along. If it's a foe, she may be killed. If it's a friend, she will be released. I view my crisis pregnancy center as the friend who helps release women from the "trap" of pregnancy by solving her problems and protecting her from those who would force her to choose between herself and her child.

    I'm well aware that informed consent laws will not help every woman choose life for her child- some are so hardened that knowledge of the wondrous development of her child barely causes her to bat an eyelid, but there are still far too many women that despite all the information available to them, deny that they are carrying a forming baby. I always insist that boyfriends/husbands and grandparents should view the ultrasound too- often they need a lot more convincing than the mother does.

    Posted by: Michelle at August 22, 2009 8:50 AM

    Thank you, Michelle for posting the rest of your thoughts!!
    I felt I was rambling as well. :) I have taken a lot of judgment from a lot of people. I have been accused a couple of times for not taking responsibility for my abortion. Yes, I was there, I paid for it, I allowed it. I did not want it. I wanted help and the help that was offered killed my first child.

    We really have to look beyond our own notions of women in unplanned pregnancies. And our lack of knowledge about post abortive moms.

    This I know. Every single woman who has an abortion is changed. Whether she admits it or not, her child died and somewhere deep down I think she knows this.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 22, 2009 8:59 AM

    No problem, Carla! I am very tired and was afraid I wasn't completely clear- but when I read your comments, they were so close to what I had already written, that I felt it would be good for you to receive some affirmation!

    Thank you so much for having the courage to make yourself vulnerable to the criticism of others. You are a light on a hill. Many more women and children will be saved by the power of your testimony and your love in action.

    My experience with the pro-life movement is that we seem to be learning to offer accountability without judgement, though it has taken many years to reach this point and I don't think we're totally there yet. When I use Frederica's quote, I have been accused of being "too soft" on post-abortive women by pro-life friends. I respond that it is not my job to judge at all, but it is important to be aware of the pressures women are under when considering abortion so that we can authentically help them.

    I hear pro-abortionists remind pro-lifers of the stresses that pregnant women are under (as if we are totally oblivious to the fact) but then defend women for making the choice to abort in those circumstances without making any effort to remove her from them. I don't think that stress is a defense- it certainly makes the situation more difficult, but ultimately, we will all be held responsible for every one of our choices.

    That said, it is not my job to hold women responsible for their choice to abort. It is my job to speak the truth and to LOVE LOVE LOVE. If I do not do that, I too will be held accountable by the Great Judge.

    I also often quote Dr Julius Fogel, abortionist and psychiatrist, who agrees with your final sentence, that abortion is not an innocuous experience, in fact quite the opposite, that every woman is changed by her abortion whether she realises it or not. So many times a woman will visit my CPC for counselling about her current pregnancy and display Post Abortion distress symptoms. So often, however, she has not yet linked her depression, relationship problems, sexual disfunction, nightmares, substance abuse, self harming behaviours etc etc to her previous abortion. It is well known that the mother-child bond is one of the strongest ties in the universe and that violently severing that bond leaves both mother and child suffering. We are working with many others to create a world where mothers will never have to choose between their own welfare and their child's life. Education will help us in that direction, but we also have to be willing to solve problems, offer solace and protection, and keep helping until our help is no longer required.

    God bless you, Carla! He has seen every tear and will one day wipe them all from your face.

    Posted by: Michelle at August 22, 2009 10:09 AM

    "Carhart specified that he would do third-trimester abortions at the Bellevue clinic only in cases where the fetus, because of a medical problem, could not survive outside the mother's body."

    Every attempt to first save the baby should be taken care of in a hospital where the mother could receive emergency care if necessary. It should be mentioned that sometimes prenatal diagnoses are sometimes wrong. There is no need to go to a lone abortionist whose only concern is killing the baby.

    Posted by: Janet at August 22, 2009 10:21 AM

    How are you going to be a good mom?

    What the [expletive]? I read your blog (or, as I call them, public journal), and I think that you're a great mom, Carla. Women don't NEED a nice car and a husband to be a good mother and men don't need any of that either to be a good father.

    I'm so sorry about what they put you through, Carla. :( You're a very brave woman.

    I wasn't saying that it' women's fault- but I think that it kind of came across that way- I was saying that there are a lot of minds to change to fight this, including women's minds: we have to encourage our fellow women and allow a woman to not look at herself as helpless. Sorry about that- it's hard to express oneself fully on a public journal because you can't use hand gestures (I'm big on those) or pitch. :)

    Posted by: Vannah at August 22, 2009 10:30 AM

    Thank you, Michelle. God bless you! Love wins!!! :)

    The abortion recovery I have had was only made possible by the friends I have that cannot comprehend what it means to someone like me to walk with the regret of my abortion day after day. They cannot comprehend it but they offer me unconditional love and total acceptance and safety. A place to grieve, to remember, to walk out of the darkness and into the light. Oh and they listen to my story over and over and over again and have never asked me, "How could you do something like that?!"

    My daughter Aubrey will be with mommy one day. For that, Michelle I grieve with hope.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 22, 2009 10:33 AM

    Oh, I was making general comments for those who read here and never comment. So many post abortive moms reading....

    Agreed. Back then I had to answer no to all of those questions. I had no husband, job, career, nice place or car or money. As if those things add up to great motherhood. They exploited my situation and preyed on my fear to sell the abortion. They are good at it. Very good.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 22, 2009 10:36 AM


    Your comments always display so much insight and understanding. It is true that no matter how many facts we get across, without love and patience and understanding, there will always be women seeking abortions. My speculation regarding gender and so forth was more of a random thought after seeing my little baby's ultrasound the other day (didn't find out the gender of ours, but was thinking about how a blood clot or mass of tissue without humanity could possibly have a gender).

    I hope that made sense... anyway, no, I don't expect abortions to be eradicated in black and white on a piece of legal documentation. Not completely. I understand entirely how a woman might feel pressured to abort in our society (the blog posted on this site re: 'why not have just one less" comes to mind)...

    Actually, I am a 4 years happily married woman living without state assistance of any sort, with one son who gets nothing but compliments, usually about his temperament. When we began to share the news of our second pregnancy, we began to receive comments such as (actual examples) "Well, so what are you going to do?" "Couldn't figure out birth control?" and "How did you let that happen?"

    There are many supportive people in our lives, and I have been blessed to have grown up in a household with 8 younger siblings, not much money, and deeply religious parents. I have never considered abortion a viable option for me, and am fortunate in this regard. However, having faced such comments from my friends and family, there was certainly a feeling of disappointment, and at times, embarrassment.. I wouldn't say shame, but mostly due to my own stubbornness.

    If I, married, not on any sort of welfare, smart and capable (albeit going through a rough patch at the time), and with a strongly supportive network of friends and family, could go through this, how much more so for a teenager with a staunchly pro-choice family? For a woman living on a liberal college campus? For a 40-year-old with a Down's baby and a pro-choice Ob-gyn?

    We absolutely need more men and women out there talking about options, and possibilities, and hope, and love, without judgment being placed on the woman constantly. With love, always!

    I believe we're seeing more of these women. As post-abortive women begin to speak out, pro-lifers are able to see the humanity of women who have had abortions... are able to speak to that more and more... are able to connect to that and understand more of the why and the how. And as we see the effects of abortion in those around us, we are able to more fully grasp why abortion itself, and not the woman, is the evil in the situation.

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 22, 2009 11:31 AM

    Hi MaryRose,
    I am sorry about the utter rudeness from some. Stay the course and have that baby! Congratulations!!
    6 of my friends had babies this summer and I am thrilled to my toes to be able to hold their bundles of joy.

    19 years out from my abortion. Glad it sounds like I've learned something. :)

    You will continue to hear more and more women and men that have been hurt by abortion. While the other side dismisses us as "mentally ill" they really don't know what to do with the growing numbers of people willing to speak truth to the lies and stand firm and unwavering against the evil that is abortion. I am in very good company and am grateful for every voice that longs to be heard!

    This is my story.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 22, 2009 3:50 PM

    I have taken a lot of judgment from a lot of people. I have been accused a couple of times for not taking responsibility for my abortion. Yes, I was there, I paid for it, I allowed it. I did not want it. I wanted help and the help that was offered killed my first child.

    We really have to look beyond our own notions of women in unplanned pregnancies. And our lack of knowledge about post abortive moms.

    This I know. Every single woman who has an abortion is changed. Whether she admits it or not, her child died and somewhere deep down I think she knows this.
    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 22, 2009 8:59 AM

    I agree Carla. You are a great mom and God loves you SOOOO much!
    I felt you needed a reminder today. God bless you.

    Posted by: angel at August 22, 2009 5:25 PM

    I love you, angel.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 22, 2009 7:35 PM

    Carla- thank you again for your transparency, and praise God for his peace and renewal in your life.

    I am off in a few minutes to my CPC (it's Sunday morning here) because a local fellowship has offered to turn their usual weekly meeting into an act of worship by serving on our property today. We've just installed a transportable building to create more space for our parent support program and our 4D ultrasound machine which will be up and running in a few weeks. My kids are really excited to have "church" there today- it's a first for them, and I am hoping the rain cooperates. There are lots of people, all over the world, seeking to love women in pregnancy and post-abortive distress, fuelled by the stories of women like you and a Heavenly Father who loved us first. Back later- God bless!

    Posted by: Michelle at August 22, 2009 7:39 PM


    Oh, believe me, there isn't a doctor, a family member, a friend, or a condition in the world that could make me stop fighting for this little one's life. :) Fortunately, everything appears to be healthy, and the majority of those around me are immensely supportive. I was just sharing my surprise at some of the responses I got (mostly from pro-choice friends and in-laws, to be quite honest... I suppose it's how quickly we got pregnant again (unless you wait the designated 2+ years, you're just making yourself into a baby-making machine, I guess). But really, if I can get that sort of reaction, it's no wonder there are so many women electing to abort the children they actually WANT to have.

    The pro-choice side, when they make comments about the hopelessness of some women's situations, either don't realize or don't care about the fact that they're spreading a sense of hopelessness to others. Now, you're expected to have lots of $$, a few cars, own a house, and have been married for half of your life before it's considered a happy and joyous occasion when you get pregnant. Because if you say that a woman not in this situation can do it, you're being judgmental of the women who elected to abort their children.

    The logic of it boggles the mind.

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 22, 2009 7:50 PM

    Why is it that others feel free to judge the spacing and number of children and feel no qualms in saying the dumbest things?? I think some people should keep their yaps shut except to say, "Congratulations!!!" :) It is utter foolishness to say whatever pops into your head. Filter it, people. Honestly.

    I think you are absolutely right about hopelessness. The picture that is painted for a young, single out of work pregnant mother is dismal indeed. It breaks my heart that I bought into that hopelessness and my daughter paid for it with her life.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 23, 2009 7:36 AM

    God bless you Michelle and the God honoring work you are doing in Australia!! Glad we met!
    Oh, and I am thrilled about the 4D ultrasound machine! :)

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 23, 2009 7:45 AM

    With regard to the South Dakota situation, I have great admiration for the efforts being made by the prolife community there. Not only are they fighting the money and influence of a taxpayer financed conspiratorial giant like PP, but they are also battling poor judgment from many of those who claim to be "on the same side" as prolifers. And yet they persist... and sometimes they win.

    I know a few of them (Rapid City)personally, and I only wish we had all the same gumption, tenacity, and conviction of that little prolife community.

    Posted by: Doyle Chadwick at August 23, 2009 8:06 AM

    Mary Rose, I'm right there with you. The number of people who are so happy about my pregnancy until they find out that this is baby #7 and then are horrified... tell me to "get fixed", ask when I'm going to "get tied" and so on is very frustrating....

    Um, I've raised and homeschooled 6 kids, one of whom is very nearly an adult, all of whom are happy and healthy and successful in school... I have a great job, hubs has a great job (finally beat the economy and found one, yay!) and while we may not have a ton of material possessions, we do okay.

    So, I look forward to this little guy making his debut. (In fact, if all of ya'll would send labor thoughts my way, he's really BIG and I'd love to have him a few days early if possible!!! I keep telling him, Patrick, today would be a good day to be born!!!)

    Posted by: Elisabeth at August 23, 2009 10:17 AM

    "The number of people who are so happy about my pregnancy until they find out that this is baby #7 and then are horrified... tell me to "get fixed", ask when I'm going to "get tied" "

    Sickos. So much for "choice."

    Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at August 23, 2009 10:47 AM

    Oh and Elisabeth- for me and I believe many others here, the HIGHER the number we hear, the MORE excited we get!

    Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at August 23, 2009 10:49 AM


    I think I've already said it, but in case I never did, a great big Congratulations to you and your family! And I'm thinking happy labor thoughts for you. :)

    While I'm only working on #2 (at 23 yrs old, so I have time), I'm the oldest of 9. Most of the comments I got that involved rudeness also involved people asking, "Trying to keep up with your parents?" As though that was a bad thing... I just usually tell them, "Guess you'll just have to wait and see."

    And then, there are some people who launch right into trying to get me to say I'm going to get a tubal ligation. Which is immensely aggravating, considering they generally know my opinion on tubal ligations. Of course, they also know my stance on birth control. I suppose the attitude is that we're not trustworthy because it took so little time for us to get pregnant.

    Fortunately, I have a very loving and supportive husband with a great sense of humor, so when I was asked "How did that happen?", for instance, his response was, "Well, I put my..." and she immediately began stammering her congratulations.


    You may have gotten caught in the web of hopelessness, but you've clearly gotten yourself out of it, and the work you do to reach out to pregnant women and give them hope is immeasurable!

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 23, 2009 11:51 AM

    ROFLOL... your hubs and mine would get along GREAT.

    He tells people, "It was something in the air. Her legs...."

    Okay, it's a little crass, but it shuts up the really rude people!

    If it's a milder situation we use the "Yes, and we've decided to stop washing our underwear together" comment. Or "We're trying to outbreed the stupid people."

    Posted by: Elisabeth at August 23, 2009 12:47 PM

    LOL I love that legs in the air joke!

    Crass, perhaps, but ask a stupid question...

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 23, 2009 1:42 PM

    Thank you, MaryRose. The joy I feel in helping others and the hope that I will see Aubrey again are truly a blessing.

    I am so happy to see how old you are! Your level of maturity is very refreshing!! :)

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 24, 2009 8:18 AM

    Elizabeth, congratulations! Here's hoping #7 will be coming any day now... and #8 within the next couple years!

    I got another comment today... on how since I have a little girl, my little boy will make my family complete. I said I sure hoped he wouldn't complete my family! I am so tired of hearing how my spacing is perfect and one of each is perfect... The comments I get aren't mean-spirited, but they're just as annoying.

    I'm kind of looking forward to the "Do you know what causes that?" question though.

    Posted by: YCW at August 24, 2009 12:18 PM

    I've gotten the "you know what causes that, don't you?" before (when the person found out that I was pregnant with a third while #2 wasn't yet 2 years old). The person meant well, so I laughed it off (it was coming from a middle-aged woman who could not have children and was good-natured in tone), but it was somewhat irritating. But it was nothing compared to what a friend of mine heard when pregnant with her fifth child. :-) Seems like EVERYONE had an opionion for her then.

    I try to take people with a grain of salt if they seem to mean well because people do consider it unusual for someone to plan a large family at what is now considered a "young age". (I am pregnant with my third, I just turned 26, all children of course were planned.) I think it's unfortunate that this is considered unusual, but at least I haven't gotten any sterilization suggestions (yet). Some people's insensitivity and rudeness knows now bounds (my husband and I WANT several kids, thanks!).

    Posted by: army_wife at August 24, 2009 12:50 PM

    I had a boy and then a girl. People kept telling me that now my family was complete. There they were-the boy and the girl. All done then? I had another boy and another boy.

    Why in the world would I keep going when I already had what everyone else assumed was perfect for me? :)

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 24, 2009 1:09 PM

    Yeah, my mom's comment when I got pregnant with #3 was, "You HAVE a girl and a boy. They don't come in any other kinds!"

    Oh, because any one boy is interchangeable for any other boy? My two boys are as different as night and day... and I expect the little stinker currently refusing to be evicted to be different from his brothers as well! And all four of my girls have different personalities, radically so in some cases.

    It's interesting to hear how my oldest interacts with some of her classmates on this issue, however (I love that she still tells me *mostly* everything... I'm sure there's stuff she doesn't, but she does tell me a lot!)... she just shakes her head and can't figure out why they have such a hard time wrapping their heads around a big family. She's finally just started saying, "Look, if you didn't grow up in a big family, maybe you don't get it. But for us, this IS normal."

    Posted by: Elisabeth at August 24, 2009 2:07 PM


    Why, thank you! I was blessed with a very mature and large family. My hope is that my children will be as wonderful as my siblings are.

    On a slightly unrelated note, my boy took his first steps on Saturday! He's a year and one week, and his uncle had decided that this kid was going to walk before he went home that evening. Sure enough, right as I was laughing it off, my Nathan took his first few steps. We're all very excited! :)


    I've been getting those questions now lately (since people have begun to accept that yes, we're actually pregnant). We're letting the gender be a surprise, and we keep getting, "Are you hoping for a girl so you can have your set and stop?" As though we're talking about salt & pepper shakers. I always respond with, "Nah, I'm hoping for a ton of boys so I can keep convincing Daniel [my husband] that we need to try for a girl." This tends to horrify people on multiple levels. For the record, anyone who genuinely pays attention in my life realizes that my husband and I have committed together to being open to life, and he always laughs at my response.

    Growing up in a big family, you learn so many graces! We were especially blessed, as my younger sister (#2) is mentally disabled (similar behavior to autism, but a completely unique case in and of itself). Whenever people express concern over possibly having a baby with Down's, I tell them, "The happiest person I ever met was mentally disabled, and my life would have been a whole lot less joyful without her. Be careful what you wish for." I'm glad to hear that your daughter is able to stand tall about her family!

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 24, 2009 4:14 PM

    Hi MaryRose,
    I have a Nathan too!! :)
    Your family sounds wonderful and congrats to the little man taking his first steps!

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 24, 2009 9:49 PM


    It's a good name :) You have excellent taste ;)
    Yes, I have many things for which to be thankful, and even more people for whom to be thankful!

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 24, 2009 10:09 PM