(Prolifer)ations 8-7-09

Thumbnail image for blog buzz.jpgby Kelli

Spotlighting important information gleaned from other pro-life blogs...

  • 2 Seconds Faster comments on Planned Parenthood's continued fight against the rights of parents to protect their minor daughters from the "cure-all" of abortion...

    Right now in 2 states PP is trying to force parents out of their children's lives, and in an indirect way telling teens that it is better for them if they lie to their parents on a daily basis. This is not a family organization...

    How much money has PP spent... trying to stop parental involvement? Why do Planned Parenthood and other liberal minded people hate it when We The People get to make our voices heard through voting?

    Quoted is an article from Medical News Today, regarding the current battle in Alaska:

    Planned Parenthood of Alaska and an Anchorage high school teacher filed a lawsuit in Anchorage Superior Court on Friday to block a voter initiative that would make it illegal for minors younger than age 18 to obtain abortion services without parental notification....

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  • Mark Crutcher discusses the fallacy of the "common ground" approach to abortion in his blog this week. After listing several excellent points, he sums up by saying:

    ... [W]hen we drink the common ground Kool Aid, we are signaling that we think we have lost this battle. That is particularly obvious in light of the fact that these discussions are always held on our enemy's terms. In most venues, that would be translated as meaning "unconditional surrender."

    But the fact is that we are winning; we just need to act like it. As long as the killing continues, we have no common ground with these people nor should we seek any. Remember, prior to World War II we had long discussions with the Japanese trying to avert the war. But at Pearl Harbor, the talking ended. Our leaders understood that when people are threatening to do evil, discussions with them are a reasonable thing. But once they have begun doing that evil, there is nothing more to talk about. From that moment on, the only goal is to stop them.

    That must always be our goal as well. When those who slaughter the unborn - and those who defend it - come to us with big toothy grins and an invitation to some Common Ground Beer Summit, we would be wise to remember that when a wolf shows his teeth, he isn't smiling.

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  • John Jacubczyk also addresses "common ground" from a slightly different perspective - adoption:

    Of course "common ground" from their perspective is that "we decide to agree with them because .... well, because." And of course they all want to discuss contraception and they want us to agree that Planned Parenthood should continue to get millions of tax dollars to feed the abortion industry....

    But rather than simply complain, I will offer a real positive solution to the problem... We have known about it for decades. It use to be the default position when someone had an unplanned pregnancy and the woman was not married. It is called adoption....

    ... We just need to connect the 1 million or so mothers with the 2 million couples. Now can't we all come together on this and agree to stop the killing and place these babies with these couples?

  • [Photo attributions: uglypets.blogspot.com; christmasmaltings.co.uk]


    Comments:

    The question is: can we break bread with people who think it is OK to tear babies apart in the womb?

    Having said that, though, the question of incrementalism has been handled, and the proof of that is seen in the reduction of the number of abortions wherever restrictions are put in place. Yes, we can work to minimize/reduce the number of abortions, as long as we work all the harder to eliminate all abortions. Saving some lives through things like parental consent and waiting periods is a good thing. However we must see it as only a step in the right direction and not lose our focus.

    The fact that others are blinded to the reality of abortion does not mean we cannot talk to them. We must engage anyone anywhere they are willing to talk, but we must not deceive them into thinking we are going to compromise our baseline beliefs. We cannot park our principles at the door.

    Obama told the pope he wanted to reduce abortions. What did he mean when he said that? Probably increased access to birth control and more sex ed--the usual stuff that doesn't work. At the same time they want to eliminate programs that do work, such as abstinence and teaching kids what abortion really is. So we cannot expect much from Obama's common ground crowd. The program may only exist to string along a few starry eyed supporters (and some errant pastors) who profess pro-life sentiments but support Obama nonetheless.

    Posted by: Jerry at August 7, 2009 4:35 PM


    Ambassador Holbrook refused to shake Slobedan Milosevic's hand because Holbrook knew better than most the intimate details of Milosevic's wickedness.

    Barabarians should not be afforded the dignities of a civilized people.

    They should be shunned.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at August 7, 2009 4:46 PM


    "Planned Parenthood of Alaska and an Anchorage high school teacher..."

    I submit this as a substantiation of what I said about typical teachers in a comments thread some time back. I'm sorry, Alexandra, but things like this reflect badly upon all teachers, and you can't convince me this isn't the prevalent attitude of most teachers unions. If I found out this teacher was in my child's school, I'd move.

    Given the attitude we have witnessed PP workers approach the issue of statutory rape, I'd also be very suspicious of this teacher's motivations for openly fighting parental notification laws in court.

    Posted by: xalisae at August 7, 2009 6:56 PM


    Feel free to move, xalisae -- though usually, just requesting a different teacher is sufficient -- but how many teachers do you see initiating legislative change on this issue? What percentage? etc. I think most teacher's unions are pro-choice, but individual teachers have pretty divergent views on the subject, like anything else. How many times would you move, based on the actions of individual teachers?

    Personally I wouldn't really give a crap what my child's teacher believed politically, or religiously, as long as they were a good teacher and kept their beliefs out of the classroom -- even if I found the political views offensive on a level that went deeper than politics. And yes, I do think that pro-choice people can be good teachers. Just like gay people can be good teachers; but lots of people would pull their kid out of a gay teacher's class, or threaten to move if an openly gay teacher fought for same-sex union legislation, etc.

    Posted by: Alexandra at August 7, 2009 7:37 PM


    John:

    You are absolutely right on this.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 7, 2009 7:42 PM


    I warned you Hal.

    Your Obama is destroying the country.

    I hope you're happy.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 7, 2009 9:42 PM


    The great uniter?

    By their fruits ye shall know them.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 7, 2009 9:54 PM


    My mom brought up a good question when she heard about parental notification laws. She wondered why people argue against them when they serve to emphasize a major point in the anti-equal rights belief: that children are property and the weaker, less capable counterparts of their parents. Essentially, she was shocked that anti-equal rights supporters opposed the parental notifications. Why? They can be easily spun to limit the rights of children.

    I personally support them due to the fact that they open a dialogue. No doubt about it, teenage girls who get abortions without informing their parents (usually) do so for the same reasons that women get abortions in the first place- they can't see any other alternative. But if we go beyond the law and enforce other things in accordance with parental notification: police protection if the girl feels physically threatened, therapists- family therapists as well as individual therapists- a taxpayer funded safehouse for her should she need it, et cetera.

    But tossing abortion at her is just wrong, and teaches her that she is worth nothing, that she will always be abused, and that no one cares. Hearing about abortions in younger individuals ought to spur on our passion for social justice even more.

    Posted by: Vannah at August 8, 2009 12:54 AM


    Vannah:

    Excuse me, but I think God gave the responsibility of children to parents then the church family.

    The state is neither.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 8, 2009 1:20 AM


    I think that that would be ideal, and I wish that every child could go home to affection and good parenting. Parents have jobs to do. But, there are unfortunately some parents who wouldn't do that if you paid them. There are parents who would throw the children out on the street or beat them or any other number of horrible things. It's impossible to expect parental notification laws to work like a charm if we don't have a blanket of people surrounding the girl to let her know that she's not alone and that her needs are worth being acknowledged and taken care of. She needs to be with people who have been in her shoes because sometimes, though by nature the family is always best, she cannot remain in the house with horrendous family dynamics. But we can't leave her alone, miserable and desperate, if she can't have what so many are blessed to have.

    Posted by: Vannah at August 8, 2009 10:06 AM


    That's right! Common ground for abortion is not just forcing women to carry pregnancies to term that they cannot raise, but punishing them by wrenching the children they are now bonded to from them by economic coercion! But at least we know whose best interests are at heart: the good white bread infertile couples who feel so entitled to children.

    Posted by: Gord at August 8, 2009 10:21 AM


    Jyw:

    I don't control Sarah Palin. I will guarantee this. She will continue to be a thorn in the side of Libs like you. I just love what she said about the Obamacant Health Plan yesterday, calling it EVIL. Isn't it awesome that she can now say what she really thinks about things without the yoke of political office around her neck? You Libs could only wish for someone like her to represent you who actually told the truth.

    Yes, and the road to perdition is very wide and MANY take it.

    Moderate is a word that is analogous to compromise, wishy washy and weak. There is nothing moderate about Obama and his thugs at all. You are in a dream world and yes he is destroying this country.

    I am not a "moderate" (as if it represents some sort of elevated stance or something) and yes I do believe in God. Why don't you report me to your communist leader? I'd die for my beliefs would you?

    Oh, by the way. I suspect you are someone who was previously been banned as I dont't recall your name. Tell me, is it you ASITIS?

    Moderators, please check the IP address of this troll.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 8, 2009 10:31 AM


    Crutcher is in the wrong business. He could become fabulously wealthy in the fertilzer business ! That's how full of it he is.
    Comparing abortion to the holocaust and all that garbage is so offensive to us pro-choicers.
    The sheer intellectual dishonesty of this is absolutely breathtaking .

    Posted by: Robert Berger at August 8, 2009 10:46 AM


    We are well aware of asitis/JYW.
    Delete, delete, delete.

    HisMan,
    Nice to see you again!! :)

    Vannah,
    Parental notification laws have been shown to reduce the abortion rate in young women. Which is why PP fights them and every other piece of prolife legislation. The majority of parents WANT to know what is going on in their daughter's lives. They want to know and want to help.
    They have to give signed permission for Tylenol in school but have no say when their daughter is considering abortion??!! Ridiculous.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 8, 2009 10:50 AM


    Robert,

    "Comparing abortion to the holocaust and all that garbage is so offensive to us pro-choicers."

    The reason the comparison is made is because both the Nazis and pro-choicers pick out a particular class of human beings and say that it is morally acceptable to kill them. Where is that comparison mistaken?

    Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at August 8, 2009 10:50 AM


    Jyw:

    Too da loo....

    Gord, yep, the solution then is to rip and tear and mutitlate innocent children from their moterhs womb then?

    Your use of the term "white bread" is racist. You are a racist and willing to commit infanticide. I.e., you are not a very good person.

    Change your heart before it is too late.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 8, 2009 10:51 AM


    Carla:

    I've been very busy this summer combating the disastrous economic effects of an Obama economy.

    I refuse to let this Communist, Marxist, Pro-Abort to ruin my life and I will fight him with every ounce of my being.

    I know this. The sleeping giant is awakening and this jerk of a president will have no power in 2010 to do any more damage.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 8, 2009 10:56 AM


    Fighting the good fight with you!!

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at August 8, 2009 11:00 AM


    Please explain the "intellectual dishonesty," Robert.

    As Bobby pointed out, both the Nazi's and the pro-choicers decided that a class of humans are "non-persons."

    In fact, the language of Roe explicitly states that if pre-born humans were viewed as the people they are, the entire logic of Roe would fall apart.

    Posted by: Lauren at August 8, 2009 11:03 AM


    Robert,

    You are absolutely right.

    Even though it was horrifically evil, the Jewish Holocaust was nothing compared to the Abortion Holocaust. Sorry if I ever made the mistake of equating the two.

    However, I do see some commonality in that both holocausts were authored by the Father of Lies; Satan himself, and, for the sole purpose of breaking God's heart. To follow Beelzebub is a losing proposition.

    I don't expect someone who has absolutely zilch knowledge of spiritual matter to understand this but I do understand how one's ignorance can cause one to be insulted by the truth.

    I see you have made absolutely no progress in spiritual growth this summer. Know this though. To keep doing and believing the same things and expecting change is akin to insanity.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 8, 2009 11:07 AM


    HisMan,

    You are a shining example of the American Spirit, and people like you are the reason that we WILL persevere despite the lib's best and most intense efforts to collapse this Great Nation of ours. They "Hope" to "Change" us into what I "Believe" is their ideal system: communism. But as long as there are people like you fighting tooth and nail against it, I will be standing right beside them.

    I hope nothing but the best for you, friend.

    Posted by: xalisae at August 8, 2009 11:12 AM


    Xalisae:

    Back at ya.

    Ya see, I do know the truth and I am truly free. Free to know who my source is, free to know from whence my breath comes, free to know who my true Savior is.

    Nothing, not Obama, not a Lib liar, not a promise, or better yet, not a lie of a government give-away will ever change that.

    Would love to talk, but have to go uh, "WORK" now, i.e., earn a living and then find ways to keep Obama's hands off of it.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 8, 2009 11:22 AM


    Jill:

    Regarding this: "Planned Parenthood of Alaska and an Anchorage high school teacher filed a lawsuit in Anchorage Superior Court on Friday to block a voter initiative that would make it illegal for minors younger than age 18 to obtain abortion services without parental notification...."

    We here in Arizona went through the same sort of gyrations, however, the parental notification laws passed.

    Perhaps you can put the Alaska people in touch with Cathi Herrod of the Center for Arizona Policy and John Jacubczyk, head of Arizona Right to Life on how to battle these types of onslaughts.

    Just a thought.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 8, 2009 11:32 AM


    Cole:
    "Yesterday: Delores said, “Body Birth made 7 billion Killer Humans on Earth since 1900. Why overpopulate the Planet? God is not in control. Humans Are. - Iggy to Susan:"The argument is always "god's word" was perverted, misunderstood, sin stood in the way, etc."

    Me:
    All writings of Religion and Myth, through many translations, still has the Original High Tech Knowledge in it, when translated by High Tech Science.

    Genesis 1:26a-27a. KJV. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:. - And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it;"

    I accept Verse 27a., was added by Body Birth Humans when they translated these writings. How would they Know Humans could Reproduce a female from the male rib by High Tech?

    When Humans Search the Scriptures and Myth with a High Tech Science Translation, that we have today, the High Tech Science in these writings will be easy to separate, as to High Tech Humans or Natural Humans..

    Atlantis is recorded as Myth, but it was a High Tech Human Society like we are today. Many of the writings in the accepted Christian Bible have their High Tech Science that also were about the Noah/Atlantis Society before the Planetary Flood.

    We have High Tech Humans today, and still some natives that still live without High Tech, but Humans with High Tech have retaken most of the usable land on Earth.

    Atlantis split down the middle and sank. Planet Earth was all one land mass at Colonization. It also split down the middle as shown on our flat maps, and sank.

    If Saved Humans passed on this Knowledge about Atlantis, what did Humans call it? Supernatural? Noah and Atlantis, were the same past event in the History of Life on Earth.

    Today we also Know how to Colonize Planets, and would go by the Steps/Days in Genesis. So what is Supernatural about Colonization, to High Tech Humans today?

    What is Supernatural today, about making a Human Perfect Fetus in the High Tech lab, without sex to the female?

    With High Tech Womb Perfect Reproduction, Defective Human Body Birth would be a Sin.

    Posted by: Dolores Lear at August 8, 2009 12:06 PM


    Vannah,

    To throw another wrench into it all, read Jennifer McCoy's story:

    "lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/feb/09021102.html"

    She was a teen who didn't want an abortion, Hodari assaulted her and performed one against her will. Brave Jennifer went straight to the police. The judge threw the case out because the abortuary got her mother's signature on the forms Jennifer refused to sign (she was told it was a prenatal visit) at Hodari's mill. Her mother was not present, BTW, at the time of the abortion, her rapist brought her there.

    The retroactive signatures and Hodari's argument that since Jennifer was a minor, she didn't have to consent to the procedure, were accepted by the judge. How twisted is that? Truly the Dead Babies R Us mentality in full force here.

    Posted by: klynn73 at August 8, 2009 2:29 PM


    "I don't expect someone who has absolutely zilch knowledge of spiritual matter to understand this but I do understand how one's ignorance can cause one to be insulted by the truth."

    One can be without spiritual knowledge and still understand why abortion is wrong, actually. I'm a pro-life athiest.

    Posted by: Abel at August 8, 2009 3:24 PM


    That's so sad, Klynn73. And it infuriates me. The more I study the abortion debate, the more upset I get that it's not just children's rights that we're fighting for, but women's as well. And I'm pleased to side with women, but upset that people honestly lie and say that women's rights are abortion, that that's the women's stance. That's such a bold lie that I can't quite make out what to do to get the truth out. You're right- Jennifer was so brave.

    Hi, Abel. Absolutely- you can be a pro-life atheist. Pro-life is about fighting for equal rights, dignity, and for everyone to have a piece of the American pie. :)

    Posted by: Vannah at August 8, 2009 3:56 PM


    I think, Abel, he was referring to understanding the spiritual forces driving the abortion industry (and delighting in death, whether at an abortuary or in a Nazi death camp). Satan is a liar, but he isn't stupid. His goal is retaliation against God, and any Father is most acutely hurt when His children are hurt, or reject Him.

    We're glad to have as many voices as possible for those who can't speak for themselves, but ultimately wish you, Xalisae and any others would settle their eternal destinies. I am looking forward to meeting these little ones for whom I advocate, but whose earthly lives were cut short by abortion.

    Posted by: klynn73 at August 8, 2009 4:01 PM


    Vannah, Jennifer is now a mother of 10 and a pro-life activist. :)

    The rhetoric of 'pro-woman' does not mesh with reality. I challenge anyone who thinks abortion helps or liberates women to spend a Saturday observing at an abortuary. How many sobbing women, couples fighting, and girls and women literally dragged into the building (this is usually Grandma doing the dragging) does one have to see before that big lie is refuted? Stay until they come out and see for yourself. My heart breaks for them.

    Posted by: klynn73 at August 8, 2009 4:10 PM


    On the subject of parental notification, I've always felt like that's prime common ground between pro-lifers and pro-choicers (the ones who truly want to reduce abortions). And I'm not just speaking of parental notification laws, but initiatives to keep parents aware of their child's school sex ed curriculum and more opportunitites for parents to be involved in their child's life in general. I think it's probably common knowledge that teens who make irresponsible sexual decisions are lacking parental guidance. And I realize that there will always be some parents who can't be forced to give a crap about their kids. But I think there are a lot of parents that would be willing to be more involved with their child with a little prompting, resources, increased awareness, etc. I mean, what type of person wouldn't want more parental guidance? (Shhh, that's rhetorical.)

    Alexandra,

    "Just like gay people can be good teachers; but lots of people would pull their kid out of a gay teacher's class, or threaten to move if an openly gay teacher fought for same-sex union legislation, etc. "

    While I don't disagree that this happens, I have a relevant experience that went in the opposite direction. I went to high school in Alabama. While I was attending, we got a new drama teacher, who was openly gay and a favorite among students. The only problem was that he aggressively played the victim, and made far-fetched accusations towards students. I knew several students personally who had encounters with him where simple conversation suddenly turned hostile, with the teacher becoming offended at any and everything that he could twist into homophobia. Towards the end of the school year, the teacher claimed that a student called him a fag - I was there, and that didn't happen (a student had teasingly called his friend a fag while walking to the bus and the teacher overheard). The teacher demanded that the student be expelled, making him unable to graduate, or he would resign. The administration tried to compromise, saying they would suspend the student. The teacher resigned.

    I'm not saying that my story proves that gay people are poor teachers. Not at all. My point is that in this situation the teacher was deliberately making his sexuality an issue, and in instances like this I can see why a parent would consider removing their child (no one did, in this case). Although I can't assume the motivations of all parents who would object to an openly gay teacher, sometimes it may not be about prejudice, but about how a teacher allows his personal life to affect his teaching.

    Posted by: Janette at August 8, 2009 4:14 PM


    Abel, I'm a prolife agnostic, so you are not alone.

    Robert, you said "Comparing abortion to the holocaust and all that garbage is so offensive to us pro-choicers."

    Golly, I feel for ya!! I can feel your PAIN!!

    Let's see... the Holocaust killed about 6 million Jews, and about that many "other groups of undesirables", right?

    In the US alone, abortion has killed about 50 million of an undesirable group known as the "unborn and unwanted".

    So yeah, the Holocause was "small potatoes" compared to abortion, right?

    Hey, that's like comparing abortion to child abuse (which also always irritates proaborts like yourself)..... abortion is way, way worse!

    Posted by: Doyle Chadwick at August 8, 2009 4:17 PM


    Janette, I absolutely agree that people are in the right to remove their children from the classes of ridiculously stupid teachers. I think that's a pretty individual judgment call in each situation, and I'm glad the school district didn't give in to that idiot teacher you knew.

    Personally I think it is, more often than not, self-aggrandizing and pretty much an overreaction for the sake of "making a point" to remove your kid from a school district because of political beliefs a teacher supports in his free time. If any of those beliefs come into the classroom, then that's another story.

    Posted by: Alexandra at August 8, 2009 4:56 PM


    She was a teen who didn't want an abortion, Hodari assaulted her and performed one against her will. Brave Jennifer went straight to the police. The judge threw the case out because the abortuary got her mother's signature on the forms Jennifer refused to sign (she was told it was a prenatal visit) at Hodari's mill. Her mother was not present, BTW, at the time of the abortion, her rapist brought her there.

    aww, so very sad. :(


    wonderful: Jennifer is now a mother of 10 and a pro-life activist. :)

    Posted by: angel at August 8, 2009 5:29 PM


    Alexandra,

    Oh, I agree. I think a lot of times people (parents included) leap at opportunities to proudly assert their beliefs when it isn't beneficial or appropriate to do so. I guess in my experience it was the teacher trying to make a point at other's expense - I suppose this is something that happens in nearly every setting, no matter the particular cause.

    Posted by: Janette at August 8, 2009 5:50 PM


    "Comparing abortion to the holocaust and all that garbage is so offensive to us pro-choicers."

    Advocating for killing of innocent lives is offense to pro-lifers, the babies that are violently ripped from their mothers womb, and all those women suffering from the traumatic affects of abortion.

    Pardon us for not catering to your sensibilities.

    Posted by: Janette at August 8, 2009 5:59 PM


    offensive*, that is.

    Posted by: Janette at August 8, 2009 6:00 PM


    "...to remove your kid from a school district because of political beliefs a teacher supports in his free time."

    Alexandra, this was a totally different situation. This teacher was actively trying to block laws that help children, and this person is in a line of work dealing with children daily and being an authority figure and and supplying guidance to children on a daily basis! How can I trust a person like this with my child day to day? If they just happened to support those beliefs, that's one thing, because I wouldn't know what he supported if he hadn't started this lawsuit, and so I wouldn't have known to take my kid out in the first place. But this is a guy attempting to make bad policy that is bad for kids.

    Posted by: xalisae at August 8, 2009 8:43 PM


    Okay, then back to my initial question: how many teachers do you see initiating legislation like this? Enough to say:

    I'm sorry, Alexandra, but things like this reflect badly upon all teachers, and you can't convince me this isn't the prevalent attitude of most teachers unions.

    And how is this a city-versus-small-town issue, which was what I objected to in the previous thread? I think you get more teachers in large cities, so probably more teachers doing controversial things -- but percentage-wise I don't imagine it's much of a difference.

    Of course, many people think that same-sex unions are "policy that is bad for kids." Or allowing gay couples to adopt. If the teacher wouldn't openly support those unions, or those adoptions, then those parents wouldn't know to take their kids out of his class; but since he made his views known, now they'll move out of the school district. Perhaps the question should be: if the parents WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN that the teacher supported those opinions, had he not come out and said it on his own time in his private-sphere life, then is it necessary to relocate? to condemn all teachers?

    When it comes to providing guidance to children, the law on the subject is pretty clear regardless of what parental abortion notification laws are. If you so much as suspect abuse -- which includes statutory rape -- you must notify someone. Mr. Alexandra has not always felt that doing this was in the best interest of his students, when it came up in his career; but he knew that the judgment call was not his to make.

    Posted by: Alexandra at August 8, 2009 9:10 PM


    And how is this a city-versus-small-town issue, which was what I objected to in the previous thread? I think you get more teachers in large cities, so probably more teachers doing controversial things -- but percentage-wise I don't imagine it's much of a difference.

    Now that we've moved from Colorado, my daughter is going to the same school I went to pretty much from 2nd grade onward. I know many of the teachers there. If I don't know them, there's a good chance at least one of my younger siblings does. My daughter will be starting second grade in about a week. She will be attending class as a student of the same teacher my middle younger brother had in that grade. That was a good year for him. I know she's a good teacher. And, when I went to get her registered, I didn't have to see a single Obama/Biden bumper sticker, as opposed to the ones I saw every day in the teacher's parking lot when I went to go drop her off in Colorado Springs-a vastly larger city than where we live now.

    Posted by: xalisae at August 9, 2009 11:38 AM


    Yes. Cities have larger populations. Many people do not like larger populations for a variety of reasons, including preferring their children to go to the same grocery store and the same schools they went to as children, and that's fine. But even in cities, a good parent will know their child's teachers. Maybe parents won't know who their child's teachers voted for, what church they attend, whatever -- but is that really a parent's business?

    I don't think that a teacher having politically different points of view than I do is an indication that the teacher is unfit to teach. I still maintain that if a teacher keeps his politics out of the classroom, then his politics are not my business.

    Posted by: Alexandra at August 9, 2009 12:17 PM


    "I don't think that a teacher having politically different points of view than I do is an indication that the teacher is unfit to teach. "

    I would say that depends. There are many areas where I'm perfectly willing to compromise and be tolerant, as long as their point of view is basically kept out of the classroom or, perhaps provided only during appropriate times in a relevant class debate. But there are some areas that are red flags for me, that would make me suspect that their point of view may affect their beahvior with students. This lawsuit against a parental notification voter initiative would be a red flag for me. It is not unusual (and often encouraged by teachers) for students facing a personal crisis to confide in their teachers. And based on this particular teacher's lawsuit, I would be concerned that if a 14 year old told the teacher that she was pregnant and didn't want her parents to find out, that teacher would attempt to get her a secret abortion. This isn't your typical "my kids math teacher voted for Hillary Clinton" sort of differing political point of view. This is a pregnancy termination being performed on a minor without parental knowledge, and this teacher is apparently a very passionate advocate of that. I've read several testimonials of post-abortive women who's teachers helped them get secret abortions. I think it's a legitimate concern and a shrewd move to request a different teacher if you have reason to believe the teacher may facilitate a course of action involving your child without your approval or knowledge.

    Posted by: Janette at August 9, 2009 1:14 PM


    Oh, yeah, Janette, I think that in general there are red-flag areas. I also think that, like with some abuse-notification situations, if a teacher doesn't agree with the current law but follows it anyway, then that mitigates issues like this a bit -- it is, as with most things, highly dependent on a variety of individual circumstances.

    I don't think that one teacher from a moderately-sized city being passionate about an issue, even an issue that involves usurping parental authority, 'says something' about teachers in general, or teachers from anyplace besides small towns, etc. Seeing more Obama stickers in a big city does not at all mean that "big city" teachers are all represented by this one person. The discussion we had before was about alleged "big-city values" and those big-city teachers always pushing said values on their students; and so I'm curious as to why this one teacher's actions are somehow supposed to represent all teachers from a town with a population greater than 50,000; or all teachers who voted for Obama; or whatever.

    Posted by: Alexandra at August 9, 2009 2:04 PM


    Abel:

    I respect your right not to believe in God. Even God respects the right to not believe in Him as He forces Himself on no one. His love for us, however, compels Him to seek after us through all means available, be in the face of a child, the beauty in nature, the natural laws of the universe, even the love of other human beings, etc.

    However, when Robert comes here and makes very ignorant statements that ignore the "common sense" that abortion is wrong, I am forced to counter such ignorance with very strong words.

    Unfortunately, even truth must be defended as it is not obvious to all.

    Posted by: HisMan at August 9, 2009 3:16 PM


    I attended big city schools Xalisae and found my teachers were likely to express their opinions about cultural, moral and political issues to their students and they were strong NEA teacher's union members which has a strong leftist, pro-abortion agenda (sometimes they could even be a little intimidating when you didn't agree with them) so I tend to agree with your assessment of being wary of big city schools. My children attended suburban-like schools and the teachers seemed much more cautious in expressing personal, political and moral opinions, giving children an opportunity to have classroom debates when it was appropriate but they seemed "fair and balanced", without intimidating or putting down anyone. I know there are always exceptions to anything but I would probably be more cautious in checking out curriculums, teachers, etc. in large cities but I would check out things in the smaller city school districts as well. I looked over the human sexuality curriculum beforehand that my children were taught and asked the teachers questions to get a feel where they were coming from so they were not in conflict with the values we were teaching them at home. Then as they were going through sex ed. I would ask my kids about what was going on in the class.

    Posted by: Prolifer L at August 9, 2009 10:50 PM


    Big cities tend to lean to the left. Hence, you're going to find a higher percentage of Obama/Biden stickers on cars in a city school than in a country school. That's a fair and accurate assessment. Furthermore, in a town or small city, you have a much higher chance of having a deeper personal relationship with the teacher whose class your son/daughter is attending than in the larger city. Additionally, class sizes are likely to be larger the larger the city, meaning each teacher has less time to spend with individuals, and even LESS time to spend with the parents.

    I think it's fair to feel that you have a better understanding of WHO is teaching your children and WHAT they are teaching them in a smaller town or city than you would given the same amount of work (or in some instances more work) in a larger city.

    And also, I feel that the issue xalisae proposes would have a lot to do with the age of your child. If the teacher is a kindergarten teacher, I would probably be slightly more wary having the knowledge of his political leaning, but would not feel the need to withdraw my child from his class. However, if the teacher were instructing a child within or near the age range where this would be an issue, I feel that withdrawing the student from the class is a perfectly legitimate decision.

    It is impossible for us as humans to be perfectly objective. Therefore, a pro-choice feminist teaching a high school politics course is going to imbue some of her opinions into the class construct. However, at some point, it is important for parents to be confident in the foundation we have laid for our children. At some point, your son/daughter is going to face difficult questions about his/her beliefs. It is good, I think, for this to happen at a time when they can come home and talk to you about it...

    There's just a difference between worrying about your son's teacher confusing his perspective on abortion versus worrying that your child's teacher is going to encourage a pregnant teen to get abortion without the parent's knowledge.

    Anyway, that's my two cents.

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 10, 2009 2:10 AM


    There's just a difference between worrying about your son's teacher confusing his perspective on abortion versus worrying that your child's teacher is going to encourage a pregnant teen to get abortion without the parent's knowledge.

    Anyway, that's my two cents.
    Posted by: MaryRose at August 10, 2009 2:10 AM

    Yes. And, my oldest being a girl, stuff like this I find particularly important.

    And I know all about the challenging of one's values via school...I'm going to be super-anxious when they go off to college! But I know they'll do the right thing.

    Posted by: xalisae at August 10, 2009 12:39 PM


    Gord:

    Why does the worth of a child depend on how much his mother loves him?

    Do you apply this same standard to born children?

    I mean, after all, just because their three-year-old is being burned with cigarettes and fed infrequently, is that a reason to break the bond the parents have with her?

    So why is it that when a mother tries to kill her unborn child, we talk about her rights and what's best for the child, but when it comes to older children, it's all about what's best for the child, not what the parents want and find comfortable?

    Alexandra:
    I was in a high school observing once and saw Planned Parenthood information on a bulletin board. Is this the kind of impartiality you expect from schools?

    Posted by: YCW at August 10, 2009 2:47 PM


    Alexandra,

    "I also think that, like with some abuse-notification situations, if a teacher doesn't agree with the current law but follows it anyway, then that mitigates issues like this a bit -- it is, as with most things, highly dependent on a variety of individual circumstances."

    That makes sense. If I had a child in this teacher's classroom and I found out about the anti-parental notification lawsuit, my first course of action would be to speak with the teacher about it. Based on how that went, and also previous experiences with the same teacher, I would then decide whether to request a different teacher or not. If the teacher was happy to provide me with information, and I felt assured that she would not be taking any action that contradicted my wishes, then I'd probably let the situation be. But if the teacher seemed hostile to open communication or I was not convinced that she could be trusted, then I'd probably remove my student. But again, I wouldn't necessarily fault a parent for erring on the side of caution and requesting a change in teacher. It truly does depend on circumstances.

    Posted by: Janette at August 10, 2009 2:54 PM


    x,

    From what I've seen of you, you won't have much to worry about when they hit college. :) But then, it's the parents who don't have to worry who worry the most, isn't it? ;)

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 10, 2009 5:29 PM