Jivin J's Life Links 9-22-09

web grab.jpgby JivinJ

  • Some pro-choice organizations are more than a tad miffed that the Democrats in power aren't making any efforts to overturn the Hyde Amendment and are promising that no federal dollars will be used to pay for abortion under health care reform:
  • "But what we're being offered is not enough," she said, contending that President Obama had "traded many women's futures away" when he assured Congress on Sept. 9 that the new health plan would provide no public funds for abortion....

    "In the day-to-day world outside Congress, access to abortion is not a bargaining chip or a political football," Poggi said. "It's about whether women have the chance to live healthy lives. ...It's about whether poor women and girls and women of color matter as much as other people."

  • In another one of those "IVF clinic makes huge mistake" stories, a woman named Carolyn Savage found out she was carrying another couple's child:
  • The Savages were presented with 2 devastating choices: They could either terminate the pregnancy, something that clashed with their religious beliefs, or they could carry the fetus to term and then hand him over to his biological parents.

    That moment is rapidly approaching. Carolyn is 35 weeks pregnant and within the next 2 weeks will deliver the baby with his genetic parents attending the birth. At that time, the Savages will give up the infant, perhaps never to see or hold him again.

    They are telling their story in the hopes that no other couple ever has to go through what they have endured.

  • Nature's blog reports that the FDA has given NeuralStem approval to start a clinical trial using stem cells derived from the stem cells of a 8-week-old unborn child in an effort to treat ALS patients.

  • Comments:

    This couple is extraordinary and my heart goes out to them. They're handling it with grace and dignity. God bless them.

    This story is a perfect example of why IVF is an all-around bad idea. We're playing God with human life, treating "extra" embryos like frozen veggies we can just "thaw" when wanted, and pass them around to whomever can carry them. It's wrong.

    Posted by: Jennifer at September 22, 2009 7:59 AM

    Good she is carrying the baby to term instead of aborting it like in the other situation but also interesting that this baby that is not theirs has also resulted in a healthy pregnancy without complications.
    I find that aspect medically fascinating.
    The bad aspect of this story is that they are allowing themselves to be further drawn into the IVF culture with the use of a surrogate now......

    They should have left well enough alone and considered adopting children.

    Posted by: angel at September 22, 2009 7:59 AM

    "But what we're being offered is not enough," she said, contending that President Obama had "traded many women's futures away" when he assured Congress on Sept. 9 that the new health plan would provide no public funds for abortion."


    Get it in writing, signed sealed and notoarized and then at least get the engagement ring.

    Another 'workin gurl' used, abused and refused by her mac daddy B.O.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at September 22, 2009 8:13 AM

    You hear these stories about newborns being inadvertently switched by the nursery stagg in the hosptial, but this is a much larger 'whoops'.

    Then there are the divorced men who continue to pay court ordered child support after they find out through paternity testing that they are not the biological father of their child.

    I saw a story where a van load of college students was in horrible accident and two of the female students looked similar and they were so beat up that the emergency medical people got their ID's switched. One of the girls died and the other was unconscious for a long time. The parents of the deceased girl finally realized the unconscious girl was not their daughter and they had to notify the other parents who had already buried who they mistakenly believed was their daughter.

    It is an imperfect world.

    What to do.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at September 22, 2009 8:34 AM

    "In the day-to-day world outside Congress, access to abortion is not a bargaining chip or a political football," Poggi said. "It's about whether women have the chance to live healthy lives. ...It's about whether poor women and girls and women of color matter as much as other people."

    Abortion isn't healthy for anyone and I'm disgusted at the last line... it's veiled proof as to the people PP goes after. It's not about giving poor women (and girl) and black women a better chance... it's showing Sanger's initial reason to start all this. It's to keep those two groups of women down, not raise them up. It's to keep those two groups of women from reproducing.

    ugg... what sickness!

    I'm happy that the couple is keeping the child and not abortion.

    Posted by: dirtdartwife at September 22, 2009 8:44 AM


    On "This Week," George Stephanopoulos and President Obama have a colorful discussion over Obama's health care reform proposal.

    Stephanopoulos takes issue with a mandate that obligates Americans to purchase health insurance, or risk being fined as much as $900 [acutally the proposed fine is higher]. "How is that not a tax?"

    "A responsibility to get health insurance is not a tax increase," Obama said.

    Stephanopoulos then tells Obama that he looked up the definition of "tax" in Merriam Webster's dictionary.

    "The fact that you looked up... the definition of tax increase indicates that you're stretching a little bit right now," Obama responded.


    Heaven forbid! (and hell too!) that a 'journalist' would resort to a 'dictionary' to determine what a 'word' means.

    [progressive\liberal\humanists hate identifiable, veriable standards. They 'believe' with fervent evaneslistic zeal that there are absolutely no absolutes!]

    B.O. says a journalist is 'stretching' when he/she/it consults an established standard to measure B.O. words.

    B.O. is being 'dismissive, even derissive' with Stephanopoulos.

    Expect no apology from B.O. for his arrogant and condescending attitude to Americans.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at September 22, 2009 9:17 AM

    That IVF story makes no sense. Since they're treating the woman as though she is a surrogate mother for the other, why was the original woman even given the option of having an abortion? It's not her child. Since she had the option of abortion, shouldn't she also get to decide what happens after birth? Shouldn't she be able to keep the baby?

    Posted by: Lauren at September 22, 2009 9:36 AM

    "It's about whether poor women and girls and women of color matter as much as other people."

    [Expletive] you. You run a group that pays for abortion and that's about it; your entire movement is not based on deciding who's a human or not- it's about deciding who's an equal human or not. And, although I can't speak for every Hispanic, I get pretty pissed when I hear in your [expletive] articles that because I'm a minority and have a single mother and all of that [expletive] that I must be driving up the crime rate.

    I hate it when privileged people think that they're "down with the homies" or whatever it is that they think that people are saying.

    She has absolutely no idea what she's talking about.

    Posted by: Vannah at September 22, 2009 9:44 AM

    Sorry about my comment. It's really bad to be that angry, but I've had a not-so-good kind of weekend and read too many pro-choice books saying that poor people are, by virtue of their socio-economic status and ethnic heritage- the equivalent of Adolph Hitler or zoo animals. It's just really frustrating.

    Sorry for being so upset. :(

    Posted by: Vannah at September 22, 2009 9:51 AM

    I agree Lauren!

    Can you imagine finding out YOUR CHILD was growing in another woman and that she intended to abort your baby and there was nothing you could do about it? That happened in like England, didn't it?

    IVF is immoral. For these reasons exactly!

    They really do treat the frozen babies like commodities to be bought, stored, traded, discarded. ugh. its disgusting.

    Posted by: Sydney M at September 22, 2009 9:53 AM

    All of the focus on abortion not being covered is just a ploy. There's no way the Obama administration will turn its back on the abortion industry. The tax payer will pay for it somehow. Several good articles here at NRLC (scroll to the bottom for "Three Questions For President Obama").


    Posted by: Janet at September 22, 2009 10:59 AM

    I wondered the same thing. You can kill the child (who isn't yours)in an abortion but you have to give the child back(who isn't yours)once he/she is born.


    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at September 22, 2009 11:01 AM

    How can pro-choice organization bitch about bipartisanship when they are not wanting to participate? Dude, right now we need health care, they can bitch about the Hyde Amendment later.

    Posted by: Kate at September 22, 2009 11:49 AM

    They need to do way instain mother> who kill thier babbys. becuse these babby cant frigth back it was on the news this mroing a mother in ar who had kill her three kids . they are taking the three babby back to new york too lady to rest my pary are with the father who lost his chrilden ; i am truley sorry for your lots

    Posted by: kavya at September 22, 2009 1:45 PM

    Posted by: Vannah at September 22, 2009 9:51 AM

    Sorry about my comment.

    Sorry for being so upset. :(



    No problema!

    I worked with a fellow who really got annoyed with people who used 'monosylabic expletives' (ME) frivolously and/or promiscuously.

    He said there were times when you needed to use that kind of language to communicate the seriousness of the situation.

    But when you hear people using ME in casual conversation it devalues the significance of the words.

    If there is tornado bearing down on your home, it would be inappropriate for your neighbor to call you on the phone casually and dispasionately encourage you to take evasvie action.

    It is recorded in the 'book' that the third time Peter denied Christ he cussed like a sailor.

    I don't believe he was using foul language in attempt to make himself seem less likely to have be with Jesus.

    I believe the situation precipitated some added emphasis to communicate the earnestness of his denial. He was overcome with terror. He feared for his own life.

    Some how, I don't believe the servant girl was dissuaded even then.

    From Jesus' response after HE was resurected, I have to say HE was not disuaded either.

    The only one in doubt was Peter.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at September 22, 2009 2:12 PM

    I hate it when privileged people think that they're "down with the homies" or whatever it is that they think that people are saying.

    Posted by: Vannah at September 22, 2009 9:44 AM

    That is Obamas entire thinking process. The poor are too stupid to succeed so why should they be burdened with trying? He thinks they are only good enough to get what he tells them they need.

    I dont see Obama being first in line to redistribute HIS wealth, just mine.

    Posted by: Kristen at September 22, 2009 2:25 PM

    What an amazing couple!

    Posted by: Peg at September 22, 2009 4:21 PM

    I don't see Obama as being like that, but there was one that I was thinking of in particular, though I won't name his name.

    In a quote that I read a long time ago (it just came back to me after I read "Staying Fat for Sarah Byrnes" and was really pissed) that said, essentially, abortion is how you prevent another Holocaust (said with tears in his eyes, presumably) and crime and a pro-choicer reading the article was uneasy saying that it was impossible to get away with saying this. Why? Because no one was going to buy it but that man kept saying it anyways.

    Essentially, if you're conceived into poverty, have a parent in jail, a single parent, a family member with a mental illness, won't get a pet goldfish, will be in a wheelchair, or any numerous things...you will raise the crime rate. I was just...angry, yeah, but sad more than anything.

    How can someone really think that about someone like me? I lead a damn good life. I am blessed. Yeah, I've faced adversity, but who hasn't? Who doesn't look at something in retrospect and find that, one day, you get up and you keep taking a step forward until one day you've made it to the top of the mountain and everything that you went through was just the voices of those who tried to hold you back but failed.

    The truth of the matter is, if you single out everyone in the world except for those with college-educated, wealthy, Anglo, and married parents as the kind who will cause the Holocaust and demonize everyone as evil and go out and actually take action against what you perceive as evil (Underdogs)- what your left with is just yourself. Because people who make up Underdogs make up the majority of the world's population. If you get rid of us (and let's face it, everyone here in these comments is "us"), your left with...no one.

    Seriously, if you've been through serious stuff (really serious, crappy times, I mean) in your life, raise your hand.

    [raises hand and expects lots of other people, everyone in fact, to do the same because everyone's faced difficult times]

    Posted by: Vannah at September 22, 2009 9:16 PM


    Can you imagine being told that the child you are carrying is not yours? That you will never be allowed to keep her, and that you may not even be able to stay in touch? It's a whole different situation than surrogacy, where at least the surrogate goes into it knowing what will happen, and can emotionally prepare herself for it. But praise God she chose life! Even with so much less in the way of options than mothers who choose adoption have.

    And can you imagine learning that another woman is pregnant with your child? That she could choose to take his or her life rather than continue? That a complete stranger has total control over your son or daughter's life? That all you can do is wait and see if she makes the right choice? Well, I suppose that's similar to the situation of any man who sleeps around.... I would be seriously thinking about offering adoption just to keep her from aborting.... But to give up your child to a couple that would have wanted him or her dead, just to give her a chance at life?

    In addition to IVF, this highlights the need to have laws dealing with embryo adoption/donation; without a hard-and-fast law, it could lead to similar situations.

    I hope that the families at least stay in touch. While I don't agree with IVF, I think it's very important to remember that once the children are conceived, we are dealing with human lives.

    Posted by: ycw at September 23, 2009 7:24 AM

    Vannah, I'm with you. Apparently my children are the cause (in many people's minds) of the change in the ocean's level, the hole in the ozone layer, global climate change and the extinction of the dinosaurs... not to mention, that obviously I'm too stupid to understand birth control and must be on welfare! (Um, no, understand it well enough to choose not to put my body through that and Steven and I manage to provide very well for these children).

    In fact, Steven was hospitalized twice in the past week for chest pain. (He is home now, well, and cleared of all cardiac issues. It was his thyroid that caused the initial pain he went in with, and then because he DOES have elevated cholesterol and triglycerides the docs got a little overzealous in treatment and the second admission was exacerbated by additional muscle pain caused by his body responding too well to the cholesterol lowering medications). Anyway, one of the nurses made the comment "He's got seven children. That would be enough to cause anyone chest pain." I know she thought she was being funny, but you wouldn't believe some of the comments we get!

    But I look at our littlest blessings rocking in his swing right now and I can't help but think about how blessed we are and all of the ways that our children, as "underprivileged" as they are by not having enough money to satisfy every whim (although all needs are well provided for) and "abused" because a family of our size requires that every member pitch in and help, even the three year old... are going to to benefit the world simply because they already know that in life everyone has to pitch in and get the job done and you don't always get everything you want!

    Well, now you all know why I've been absent the past couple of weeks, here are the photos I've been meaning to post:


    Patrick and Steven (tired but thrilled)

    The newest big sister, 3 year old Ari:

    And the oldest big sister, 16 year old Alison, after a tough day of high school and college classes... she says napping with a baby brother or sister is the one sure fire way out of a bad mood!

    Posted by: Elisabeth at September 23, 2009 1:15 PM

    Moderators, pictures in the last post are holding it for moderation if you could release it please? Thanks guys!

    Posted by: Elisabeth at September 23, 2009 1:16 PM


    I can completely relate to and understand your frustration. I get so pissed when people proport that killing the unborn is all about compassion for us icky little poor people, as if we're just human eye sores spoiling everyone else's pleasant view. One of my relatives was conceived by rape, one was adopted from a German orphanage, and all of my relatives grew up absolutely dirt poor. But guess what? Everyone's needs were met, everyone's lives are full of happy memories and inevitable challenges, and everyone has been succesful in various and numerous ways. It makes my blood pressure sky-rocket to hear others claim beneath their sugary-sweet euphemisms that killing off our own children is really for the best and we should be super stoked that they're graciously helping us with our little problems.

    On a more positive note: Elizabeth, you have a beautiful family :)

    Posted by: Janette at September 23, 2009 2:06 PM



    Baby! So cute! :D

    Janette & Elisabeth:

    Thanks. :)
    And it's not so much (at least the comments that I hear) sympathy for "us things" because we're apparently not people anymore. It's more hatred. But I'm so glad, Janette, that your family has the courage to keep going after hardship. :)

    See, what I most often hear is not that we're going to be miserable and that they have sympathy for us, but that we're evil and that we are not human but crime rates (and by "we" I mean every biracial kid who lives with one parent and, regardless of what you do, you are still socially unacceptable by pro-choice terms). We're not objects of (really skewed) compassion but objects of bigotry and hatred. Sigh.

    But thanks for sharing your stories and pictures (BABY!). High five to you and a round of fist pumps. :)

    Posted by: Vannah at September 23, 2009 4:41 PM

    Ahh, I get what you're saying, Vannah. I've also heard people refer to minorities only in terms of negative statistics, like certain groups are a threat to be dealt with (via abortion, for instance) rather than actual people. Actually, just last week I walked out on a potential business arrangement because a lady was making a lot of unfair, negative statements about a local Hispanic church (basically coming up with far-fetched reasons not to trust them, although she knew nothing about them other than their race). Also, I often get the impression that when people talk about the need for abortion among poor people, that they actually are referring to minorites, but it's much more socially acceptable to use eugenic language towards an income bracket than an ethnic group.

    Posted by: Janette at September 23, 2009 9:43 PM