Pastor prays for God to kill Obama

Here's an example how one stupid, misled man can cast a shadow on the entire pro-life movement. FoxNews.com reported yesterday:

A Phoenix-area pastor has started to draw protesters to his congregation after he delivered a sermon titled, "Why I Hate Barack Obama," and told his parishioners that he prays for President Obama's death.

anderson smiling.jpg

Pastor Steven Anderson stood by his sermon in an interview with MyFOXPhoenix, which reports that the pastor continues to encourage his parishioners to join him in praying for the president's death.

"I hope that God strikes Barack Obama with brain cancer so he can die like Ted Kennedy and I hope it happens today," he told MyFOXPhoenix on Sunday. He called his message "spiritual warfare" and said he does not condone killing....

Anderson's inflammatory message stems in part from Obama's abortion-rights stance.

In Anderson's controversial sermon, delivered at his Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe before Obama arrived for a speech in Phoenix earlier in the month, the pastor said he wants the president to "melt like a snail" with salt on it.

"I'm gonna pray that he dies and goes to hell when I go to bed tonight. That's what I'm gonna pray," he told his congregation....

Here's the FoxPhoenix.com report...

anderson bloody.jpgIn April a tazed and bloody Anderson posted a video complaining his 4th Amendment rights had been violated when he refused to let the border patrol search his car for drugs or stowaways. The guy has a history of fundamentalism to the extreme.

As reader Ed wrote, when sending me this story:

Obviously, we all have to temper our righteousness indignation at abortion. John the Baptist didn't call for Herod's death, but his repentance (Luke 3:19)... [and] Jesus rebuked His disciples for wanting to call fire down from Heaven on some Samaritans (Luke 9:51-56)....

We all want to be passionate and zealous in the service of our Lord. We just have to be careful, like the disciples referenced above, that we don't acquire the wrong spirit.

That's an understatement. "'Melt like a snail' with salt on it"? Wow, weird.


Comments:

Steven Anderson is a fraud and a liar. He is NO CHRISTIAN. He is always baiting police and harrassing them- video taping it and then acting as if he were being victimized. He is an attention seeking liar, and he does NOT REPRESENT Christians in any way whatsoever.

See some videos here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cD2BCBaNaM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6reRAQLGRqI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFS7oZtE8Ks

You can see a ridiculous excuse for a sermon that he preached at this link (he claimed that "the problem with America today" is that men aren't peeing standing up!! And that is not a joke...see for yourself):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo3o4nfiG7A

This guy is a joke, and it's sad that the mainstream media is painting him as though he represented us. He does not.

Posted by: Bethany at September 1, 2009 8:24 AM


I pray daily for all our elected officials. I pray specifically by name for Barack Obama. But I pray that the Lord would open his eyes and he would be saved. I pray that God would grant wisdom to the president. If God strikes Obama dead, Obama would be lost for eternity. That is horrible to think.

As Christians we are to pray for our enemies. I do consider Obama an enemy of sorts. An enemy of my beliefs and standards and an enemy of our Constitution. But Christ commanded us to pray for those that hate us, for those lost to sin. Christ never advocated responding in hate and anger, though its easy to do sometimes. We are called to a higher standard.

This pastor is out of line and not representing Christ well at all.

Posted by: Sydney M at September 1, 2009 8:30 AM


These types do NOT represent Christianity at ALL. And sadly, its these types that the MSM paints as Christians and why so many hate Christians. Just like how pro abort groups use the killer of George Tiller to say "See? They're terrorists!" and pointing the finger at peaceful, prayerful pro life groups.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at September 1, 2009 8:30 AM


this guy will have the liberals howling to put Christians on the list of possible "terrorists".

What a terrible thing to do - pray that someone (Obama or anyone else) will die and spend eternity in Hell. This poor man must be off his rocker. He's no Christian.

Posted by: angel at September 1, 2009 8:31 AM


Christ never advocated responding in hate and anger
Posted by: Sydney M at September 1, 2009 8:30 AM

Indeed. This guy is way out of step with Christ's teachings, and he's encouraging others to follow him on a path of hatred instead of the way of Christ's love. Very unfortunate and very disturbing.

Posted by: Fed Up at September 1, 2009 8:56 AM


There is Biblical precedent for imprecatory prayers. There are many of them in the Psalms.

However, I think if one is going to pray them, they ought to do so privately.

Sydney M, you're right on target!

Posted by: JamesR at September 1, 2009 9:03 AM


maybe other pastors (including the US bishops) in the US should take this man to task.

Their silence will seem as if they are condoning his message.

Posted by: angel at September 1, 2009 9:23 AM


:0

Posted by: Vannah at September 1, 2009 9:29 AM


Praying for Steven Andersen!!

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at September 1, 2009 10:17 AM


The ironic thing is that if Obama is able to implement his proposed social and economic policies, this alleged"baby killer" could cause a marked DECREASE in abortions in America.
That's exactly what he wants to do. He doesn't want abortions to increase at all. Like the late senator Kennedy, he is actually much better for the unborn than the so-called "pro-choicers" , who actually have never done diddly squat for the unborn,and who hypocritically want the government to deny help to them .
This so-called "man of God", who prays for Obama to die, is nothing but a self-righteous
hypocritical jerk . He makes a mockery of everything that Christ sttod for.

Posted by: Robert Berger at September 1, 2009 10:23 AM


Cite some sources please about Obama. Oh wait. It's you, Robert. Never mind. Run along and play.

You don't reduce abortion by PROMOTING abortion.
The most proabortion president ever will feel the back lash of those that REFUSE to pay for abortion!

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at September 1, 2009 10:29 AM


Hey Robert, we found some common ground!

"so-called "pro-choicers" , who actually have never done diddly squat for the unborn"

Posted by: Bethany at September 1, 2009 10:52 AM


Slip of the finger.I actually ment "pro-lifers", who aren't really pro-life at all, just anti-choice. And yes, abortions could decrease markedly under Obama, if he's able to get the government to do more to help the poor. But hypoicritical conservative politicians in Washington will fight him every inch.

Posted by: Robert Berger at September 1, 2009 11:03 AM


*sigh*

I love choices, Robert. But when (other than now, through abortion) has a woman killing her offspring ever been a valid and legally recognized choice?

Here's a question I ask all abortion supporters:

What happened in your life to make you so adamantly support abortion?

Posted by: xalisae at September 1, 2009 11:41 AM


One may disagree with President Obama but we need to disagree agreeably . One may want a change in the current administration but there is a civilize way to do it. Vote against him in and his party in the election of 2010 and 2012. Disliking someone or something so much one want that person death is not only against God's law but against human law. Jesus said we have committed murder if we just have hatred in our hearts for others.

Posted by: Douglass Shaw at September 1, 2009 11:46 AM


Supporters of unborn human rights ARE pro-life. We do not support a form of lethal violence, as the abortionists do, which has destroyed the lives of ONE BILLION human beings around the world in the last twenty years.

Obama's damaging anti-free market economic and social policies, which are contrary to the laws of economics, have the potential to greatly increase our economic and social problems. This, along with government subsidies for the killing of unborn children, will increase the abortion crime rate and cost the lives of potentially hundreds of thousands more human beings each and every year.

Posted by: Joe at September 1, 2009 11:54 AM


Slip of the finger.I actually ment "pro-lifers", who aren't really pro-life at all, just anti-choice.

Well, i did think it was wonderful that you were showing such concern for the unborn there for a minute. ;-)

How do you think we could improve things for the unborn, Robert? Since you were concerned about how we pro-lifers aren't doing anything to help them, I'd be open to hearing your suggestions.

As of now, there are over twice as many pregnancy resource centers than there are abortion clinics, all run by pro-lifers to help poor women who are pregnant or have young children. We refer them to good medical/prenatal care which is affordable or free.

These resource centers offer everything (most of them privately funded btw) from free shelter and diapers, to clothing, to food and transportation for the young pregnant woman in need, as well as referrals to free medical care as well.

What is missing, Robert? Please let us know, because you clearly know more than we would on this subject. And I truly admire your concern for the unborn children of the world!

Posted by: Bethany at September 1, 2009 1:43 PM


Slip of the finger

Perhaps a Freudian slip?

Posted by: Bethany at September 1, 2009 1:48 PM


Could mods please take my comments out of limbo please? Thanks in advance. :)

Posted by: xalisae at September 1, 2009 1:59 PM


Hey Xalisae,

In the future, just delete the http:// portion of the link and it won't get caught up in the spam filter.

Posted by: Ed at September 1, 2009 2:06 PM


Xalisae, going there now.

Posted by: bethany Author Profile Page at September 1, 2009 2:29 PM


I don't know why, but for some reason, I can't seem to locate your post, Xalisae. I looked in the spam, and the pending comments folders and didn't see it in either one. ? I'll keep looking but I don't know where it went to!

Posted by: bethany Author Profile Page at September 1, 2009 2:33 PM


It was already taken out earlier, I guess, and I just didn't see it. That's what I get for looking on my teeny-tiny phone. :(

Posted by: xalisae at September 1, 2009 3:06 PM


Perhaps a Freudian slip?

That was more of a Freudian slide.

I would also like to point out that even without abortion a woman still has choices.

You can choose not to have sex.

You can choose adoption.

Niether one of these choices will result in permanent hardship for the mother or death for the baby. And may I respectfully point out that they were the working options available for the duration of human history....until someone figured out how to make money sucking the contents out of a pregnant woman's uterus....


Posted by: Hooves at September 1, 2009 8:44 PM


I am not sure what kind of "Christian" you purport to be, but praying for the death of someone is not Scriptual. Did you forget, "that hate is as the sin of murder..." or "Thou shalt not kill?
If it is true that you are praying for the President's demise you are WAY out of line if you claim to be a Christian, (or any other persuasion).
Should you truly feel he is wrong, or you don't like him for whatever reason, Christians are mandated to pray FOR our leaders and FOR our enemies, (if we feel someone is), and nothing more.
I seriously doubt you have ever met the man and remember, what you wish for another has an uncanny way of boomeranging into your life and you won't know from where it will come or when.
If you love your family, keep these things in mind and ask Almighty God for forgiveness and repent, quickly.
Politics aside, we all need too much from Almighty God to usurp His position. If Obama is wrong Almighty God will deal with him in His time and His manner, without your prayers to the contrary. "Vengence is Mine, sayeth the Lord, I, (God) will repay." And if he is right/correct you and no one else or power from hell can stop where God has placed him for His purposes.
It sounds like you are following the god of this world system rather than the True and Living God.
If you really are saved in the Lord Jesus Christ, it may behoove you to reconsider your stance and your relationship with the True and Living God and ask for His forgiveness with regard to being judgemental toward another human being and asking for their demise. Remember you have no heaven or hell to send anyone to. Your arms are too short to box with God!
Submit yourself and what you preceive as a problem to Almighty God and get out of the way and leave all to God. He is well able to handle whatever needs adjusting without this kind of input and inspite of it.
What you are engaging in is witchcraft not prayer and people use to be stoned for such. Don't get it twisted! Did you consider that you may be the problem? Consider how your actions may affect you spiritually.
In love and wanting the best for you.

Posted by: Cecilie at September 1, 2009 9:29 PM


The reason I am pro-choice is because this is the only way to prevent women from dying from botched,illegal abortions, and because making abortion illegal only causes an increase in them.
Also, there is absolutely no way to enforce anti-abortion laws, and if the government attempts to ,it will only create a police state similar to Orwell's 1984 .
Also, bringing poor, unwanted children into the world does nothing but increase human misery and it increases, poverty, crime and inemployment .
You're not doing an unborn child a favor of any kind by bringing him or her into a world where there is abject poverty,malnutrition,lack of education and opportunity etc. This is infinitely worse than being aborted.
And while reports of overpopulation may be somewhat exaggerated, the fact remains that the world can only support a limited amount of people. Saying that all the world's people could fit into a tiny area ignores the fact that there are vast areas of the world which are totally uninhabitable.
Do you think that Greenland could support 300 million people ? Are you kidding ? And whether or not global warming is a reality, the world does face extremely grave ecological and environmental problems, and to deny this fact is unbelievably foolish . The world does NOT have unlimited resources .
Pollution is a very serious problem . Are you aware that there is a giant floating mass of plastic refuse and garbage floating in the Pacific ocean ? It;s the size of Texas !
And you expect all pregnant women to give birth whether or not they have the means to take care of their children, or if they have been raped or the victim of incest, or those poor unwanted children would be likely to be abused and or neglected ?
And while charities are a good thing and I'm all for them, you delude yourselves into thinking that they can provide for all children who are the result of unplanned pregnancies .
I'm ro-choice for pragmatic reasons, not because I want abortions to happen.

Posted by: Robert Berger at September 2, 2009 9:44 AM


"I'm ro-choice for pragmatic reasons"

Ah ha! We're finally getting somewhere with you! So you admit that you theory of morality says that that which is practical is what is good. What determines morality is practicality. OK, very good. So you are approximately 0 steps away from forced abortions once some group deems that a certain woman has had too many children and one more would not be practical for society or her or whatever. Nothing wrong with infanticide as long as you are doing it for reasons of practicality. Or killing the mentally unfit as long as it is deemed practical. Really, as long as it is pragmatic, one can kill anyone. There is no such thing as objective morality on your moral worldview, Robert. In fact, wouldn't you say it's more pragmatic that that giant garbage mass is in the ocean rather than your backyard? It's OK that that garbage is in the ocean because it's more practical there.

I just want you to know the logical consequences of your moral worldview.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at September 2, 2009 10:18 AM


I meant what happened to you personally, Mr. Berger. I wasn't speaking in global or large-scale terms. But it's great that you think my siblings and daughter should be dead right now. Very compassionate of you. Have you ever even been poor yourself, Mr. Berger?

Posted by: xalisae at September 2, 2009 12:08 PM


Robert Berger opined:
The reason I am pro-choice is because this is the only way to prevent women from dying from botched,illegal abortions, and because making abortion illegal only causes an increase in them.

Sorry, but I just had to stop at the first sentence. Do you seriously think that laws prohibiting certain actions actually increase the actions they prohibit? Do you have any proof to support this claim?

Do laws against murder increase the number of murders?
Do laws against rape increase the number of rapes?
Do laws against theft increase the number of thefts?

By your logic, then the best way to save the environment would be to make recycling illegal. Also, if we make books illegal, we might increase the literacy rate!

Needless to say, your logic seems very ... illogical to me. Could you explain how it works? Do you have any proof for your claim?

Posted by: Naaman at September 2, 2009 12:59 PM


On the original topic ... this Pastor clearly needs to re-read Ephesians 6:12:
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

If that's too complicated, here's the Naaman Paraphrase of the verse:
"If it bleeds, it isn't your enemy."

Jesus died to save all of us. He died to save President Obama, just as He died to save Pastor Anderson, Jill Stanek, and me. Pro-lifers oppose Obama because his policies are atrocious, but we must oppose him with integrity. For a Christian, that includes praying for our President's eyes to be opened to the Truth.

Another useful passage is found in Romans 12, verses 17-21:
"Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord. On the contrary:
'If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.'
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

Posted by: Naaman at September 2, 2009 1:10 PM


While it may be true that morality cannot be legislated, behavior can be regulated. It may be true that the law cannot change the heart, it can restrain the heartless.
-Martin Luther King Jr.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at September 2, 2009 1:34 PM


Posted by: Robert Berger at September 1, 2009 10:23 AM

"This so-called "man of God", who prays for Obama to die, is nothing but a self-righteous
hypocritical jerk .

He makes a mockery of everything that Christ sttod for."

------------------------------------------------------

mr/ms/mrs Berger,

I would be interested in your 'take' on what 'Christ stood for'.

All the angels is heaven are looking on in rapt attention and awe awaiting your revelation.

Please do not disappoint us.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at September 2, 2009 2:26 PM


B.O. is all the time having those Freudian slips of 'the' finger.

But it is OK causes it' B.O. who is doing the flippin', isn't it? (right mr/mrs/ms Berger)

I may not have the advantatges of an eloquent teleprompter like B.O. but I know when someone is pounding sand up my B.O.!

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at September 2, 2009 2:35 PM


I have great difficulty with 'imprecatory' prayers.

When I read them in the psalms it makes me cringe.

There may be a time, a place, and/or a circumstance where they are in God's will, but even old bloated Ted Kennedy, drunken skirt chasin leche that he was, did not move me to want to ask God to smite him with disease or death.

Not that God takes my advice, mind you.

I actually asked God to grant Ted repentance and heal him. Who knows, maybe GOD answered that prayer.

I did ask that God would raise another up to take Ted's place. A man/woman after God's own heart.

I prayed that Ted would not be successful in his election bids.

Posted by: kbhvac at September 2, 2009 2:45 PM


Posted by: Naaman at September 2, 2009 1:10 PM

If that's too complicated, here's the Naaman Paraphrase of the verse:

"If it bleeds, it isn't your enemy."

---------------------------------------------------

"If it bleeds, you can kill it."

Arnold Schwarzenger from the movie 'Predator'.

Paul was writing of 'spiritual warfaring'.

I reserve the right and responsibility of self defense against those 'ones' that do bleed who would dain to do me and/or my loved ones physical harm.

If someone is coming at me and their intent is to harm or kill me, I may be praying, but it will not be for their salvation. It will be for mine and I will be looking for something to fill my hands and my first choice won't be a bible and the only verse I will be quotin' will be Colt 3:57 (magnum version)!

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at September 2, 2009 2:56 PM


Actualy, a Freudian slip is what a female psychiatrist wears under her dress.
And sorry for the finger slips.
Maybe I should rephrase what I said about pragmatism. And yes,it's fact that countries where abortion is illegal have higher abortion rates than countries which permit it.
You might compare this to the arguments of those who favor the death penalty for murder.
US states without the death penalty have lower murder rates.This is a fact.
And the notion that if abortion is legal in a country,that this will inevitably lead to the government forcing women to have abortions, and
forced euthanasia,and all those terrible things you suppose will happen,is just plain ludicrous.
And was abortion legal under Hitler in Germany? In fact,it was not. He wanted as many aryan babies as possible to be born.
In fact, many governments which have outlawed abortion have been extremely repressive police states,such as Romania under Ceausescu etc.
I fear for an America where the government declares abortion illegal,yet where women routinely go to back-alley abortionists, well-to-do women easily fly off to countries where it is legal for them, and the poorest women try to abort themselves.
And of course, you anti-choicers are opposed to the government handing out money to the poor, because that's"socialism", and we don't want that here, do we? And you really think that private charities can provide the means to take care of all poor women who are pregnant? Boy,are you deluded.
Yet you still expect every women who happens to be pregnant to give birth,no matter what the unfavorable circumstances. As the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for.It just might come true.
But if the US outlaws abortion, it won't have the results you desire and expect. No way. It won't improve society in any way, everything will not be hunky dory. It will be catastrophic for the unborn, their families,poor women,and society in general. It won't be pretty. It will only make a bad situation infinitely worse. Mark my words.

Posted by: Robert Berger at September 2, 2009 2:57 PM


mr/mrs/ms Berger,

How do you ever get to where you want to go?

You must be going in circles perpetually because left is the only direction you seem to know.

Even if all the bovine scatulation that you just posted were true (And I do not for a moment concede that it is true and correct.) it does not change the reality of the humanity of the pre-natal child.

Hitler did issue the order in 1939 for active euthenasia for aryan germans who did not 'measure' up.

The German government under the 'benevolent care' of Adolph Hitler did order that pregnant Jewish women submit to forced abortions.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at September 2, 2009 3:09 PM


Abortion is catastrophic for the unborn.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at September 2, 2009 3:10 PM


Not nearly as much a catastrophe as being born
into abject poverty,malnutrition,disease and lack of opportunity.

Posted by: Robert Berger at September 2, 2009 3:52 PM


First of all, it goes without saying that it is ridiculous to compare removing abortion to 1984. Lots of stuff is illegal, in case you didn't notice.

Rape is illegal. But, according to you, that law is oppressive. Clearly, since rape is illegal, men are hunted by the government. Every legal act is investigated in a court of law. Men have monitors on them twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. If they are attracted to a woman (or even another man), they are hauled in for questioning, submitted to a battery of tests, and forced to write out a statement.

Give us a break about this "IT WILL TURN INTO 1984! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! THEY'RE FASCISTS!" crap. That's just fear-mongering and you know it.

Posted by: Vannah at September 2, 2009 3:54 PM


Not nearly as much of a catastrophe? What do you know about poverty and lack of opportunity? What can you possibly understand about what it feels like to have nothing? You understand so little about what it's really like. It's just an excuse for you. But you have absolutely no idea: the heart that beats in even the poor who you look down on and think about how miserable they must be.

But I guess that, if you did care about them, you might actually do something to help them instead of gripe about how we can't all be as lucky as you. You have NO standing to say that about the impoverished. None.

Posted by: Vannah at September 2, 2009 4:02 PM


"Not nearly as much a catastrophe as being born into abject poverty,malnutrition,disease and lack of opportunity. "

Yes, you're quite correct. I currently have a lack of opportunity, and wish someone would come along and inject poison into my heart to take me out of my misery.

And Robert, you've never answered me before; why can't we just wait to make SURE they have a lack of opportunity, and THEN kill them? I'm sure you'd agree that we wouldn't want to kill someone who we only THINK will have a lack of opportunity but then turns out to have opportunity. No, that person deserves to live. So killing them in the womb isn't fair to those who seem like they won't have an opportunity but then are able to obtain an opportunity. It also isn't fair to those who we THINK will have an opportunity when they're in the womb, but then turn out to be bums and have no opportunity. Those people deserve to die, definitely; we're in agreement there. So let's wait until we know FOR SURE that they have no opportunity and then kill them. That way, only the people who aren't worthy of life (those who lack opportunity) are weeded out from our society. Talk about pragmatism in action. This would be much more beneficial to society than just playing "abortion roulette" where we only kill the unborn based on our best guesses about what they will do with their life. No more guessing. Let's base our killings on clear science based in sound ethics. Our killing people needs to have science, not ideology, as a backdrop.

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at September 2, 2009 4:08 PM


Bobby, I think that Robert Berger should definitely be with you on that one, if he were consistent in his beliefs.

Posted by: Bethany at September 2, 2009 4:17 PM


It is not 'facisism' when B.O. does it!

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at September 2, 2009 9:46 PM


No, I didn't mean to say that we should kill poor people because they live in such deplorable conditions. What I meant is that while abortio may be an unpleasant thing to happen, it's not nearly as bad as actually being born into poverty.
You've been missing my whole point ever since I've been posting here.
It's just that trying to stop abortion by making it illegal is absolutely futile, and that doing this only makes a bad situation far worse.
And it's ridiculous to compare abprtion to rape,and to make it sound that I think that just because rape happens, we should make it legal,or murder. But abortion is NOT murder.It's an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice which some women have to make at times.
Also, abortion is NOT torture. It isn't even painful for a fetus in the first trimester, because its nervous system has not even developed enough for it to feel any pain,and the vast majority of abortions are not late ones.
Also, torture is usually a prolonged experience, and your typical abortion takes only a few minutes.
All you anti-choicers arguments against abortion are false. None of them holds the slightest water. Your arguments are entirely circular. You advocate the impossible;a world in which every pregnancy results in a birth, and pregnant women give birth to children even if they are deserately poor, and where the government does nothing to help poor pregnant women because "charities can and should provide for children". And where married couples all have huge families whether or not they have the means to provide for them, and no one uses contraception.
You are also opposed to divorce, homosexuality, pornography, and a host of other things which have existed for thousands of years but which will continue to exist despite the fact that they have existed for thousands of years and are neither possible nor desirable to stop.
I'm sorry, but you have totally unrealistic goals and expectations. You're trying to stop the tide at the beach with teaspoons .

Posted by: Robert Berger at September 3, 2009 9:32 AM


"No, I didn't mean to say that we should kill poor people because they live in such deplorable conditions."

WHY the heck not? It follows LOGICALLY from your defense of abortion. This is what we call an argument reductio ad absurdum. You begin with a premise, make logical deductions, end up at a ridiculous conclusion (like we should be allowed to kill the living), and then conclude that the only problem is in your starting assumption, and hence your starting assumption was wrong. Thus, your assumption that we should kill the unborn because they will have a lack of opportunity is absurd.

Now you seem to be claiming that we should accept abortion because making it illegal is "futile." I don't know what evidence you have to back up this claim, but how does it follow that if an action is morally reprehensible but outlawing it would be "futile", then we should allow it?

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at September 3, 2009 9:41 AM


Bravo, Bobby.

Posted by: Bethany at September 3, 2009 11:36 AM


No, I didn't mean to say that we should kill poor people because they live in such deplorable conditions. What I meant is that while abortio may be an unpleasant thing to happen, it's not nearly as bad as actually being born into poverty.

I was born into what is considered "poverty" in America. I am grateful to be alive, and I was grateful to be alive then. Robert, many people have asked and yet you have not answered- have YOU ever been poor?

It's just that trying to stop abortion by making it illegal is absolutely futile, and that doing this only makes a bad situation far worse.

You have yet to show any evidence to support this claim, yet you keep claiming it.

And it's ridiculous to compare abprtion to rape

Why?

,and to make it sound that I think that just because rape happens, we should make it legal,or murder.

Why is that ridiculous?

But abortion is NOT murder.It's an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice which some women have to make at times.

Why is it unfortunate?

Also, abortion is NOT torture. It isn't even painful for a fetus in the first trimester, because its nervous system has not even developed enough for it to feel any pain,and the vast majority of abortions are not late ones.

What about the late ones, Robert? Do you consider them torture?

Also, torture is usually a prolonged experience, and your typical abortion takes only a few minutes.

Why not euthanize quickly and painlessly poor and abused children? That way it only takes a few minutes and can't be considered torture, and solves the abuse problem... I think Bobby's idea is brilliant and fits right into your logic perfectly.

All you anti-choicers arguments against abortion are false. None of them holds the slightest water. Your arguments are entirely circular.

LOL Okay this is the definition of ironic.

You advocate the impossible;a world in which every pregnancy results in a birth, and pregnant women give birth to children even if they are deserately poor, and where the government does nothing to help poor pregnant women because "charities can and should provide for children".

Source?

, but you have totally unrealistic goals and expectations. You're trying to stop the tide at the beach with teaspoons .

You're the one trying to solve abuse by killing children.

Posted by: Bethany at September 3, 2009 11:45 AM


And I honestly think Bobby's approach is far more kind than the abortion approach since it narrows it down and ONLY kills the ones who are DEFINITELY abused and poor, rather than killing them all because some of them might be. So why aren't you all for that, Robert?

Posted by: Bethany at September 3, 2009 12:00 PM


Robert your assumption that it's better to be killed in utero than born into poverty is incredibly elitist. I know many poor people who would slap your face for that kind of language. In fact it is mostly the poor that have the biggest grasp of reality. They know that having loved ones around you and a loving family is better than stepping all over others and your own health for this idea of "opportunity." Your assumption is not only slimy but it's part of the corruption of politicians who design the system to keep the poor down rather than lift them up.

Posted by: PIP at September 3, 2009 12:04 PM


"No, I didn't mean to say that we should kill poor people because they live in such deplorable conditions. What I meant is that while abortio may be an unpleasant thing to happen, it's not nearly as bad as actually being born into poverty.

Wow...just...WHAT A POMPOUS, PRESUMPTUOUS ASS YOU ARE! My family has never been well-off, but at the height of my parents' procreation, we were pretty damned poor. Now, I am not particularly proud of that, but jerks like you make me want to shout it from the rooftops, because I'd much rather be poor and have some scruples than be a empathy-devoid sphincter constantly burping gas about how bad poor people have it, so maybe we should just give them a go at killing themselves, or their brothers, or their sisters, or their children, because certainly if they don't live MY charmed life, it couldn't possibly be worth it, right? THESE POOR PEOPLE YOU TALK ABOUT ABORTING ARE OTHER PEOPLES' FAMILY MEMBERS, YOU FRICKING DOUCHEBAG! Our circumstances might not have been optimal, there were a couple holidays we wouldn't have had dinner for without people leaving boxes of food on our doorstep, but I and any one of my 5 living brothers and sisters will tell you that we'd rather be alive and have each other than anything my parents would've been better able to provide had they opted for an abortion, no matter what our circumstances ended up being.

"It's just that trying to stop abortion by making it illegal is absolutely futile, and that doing this only makes a bad situation far worse."

Your blathering doesn't change the very simple facts. 80% of women getting abortions would just have the baby if it were illegal to abort. Being alive is better than being dead. YES, ROBERT, EVEN IF YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE ICKY POOR PEOPLE. WE LIKE TO LIVE JUST LIKE YOU DO. If what you said was true, rich people would never commit suicide, and they do all of the time.

"And it's ridiculous to compare abprtion to rape,and to make it sound that I think that just because rape happens, we should make it legal,or murder. But abortion is NOT murder.It's an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice which some women have to make at times."

What about the baby's sacrifice!?!?!!! My god, you are an insane person. Rape is an infringement on another's basic human rights. Abortion is another infringement on another's basic human rights (specifically, the right to live). It is not necessary. Homeless, poor, unemployed, single women have babies all of the time, and sometimes they give their babies up for adoption (THAT would be the sacrifice of motherhood on the part of the mother, with no sacrifice on anyone else's part), and sometimes they are able to get help and jobs and education and start a successful family. ABORTION IS NOT A NECESSITY. LIARS LIKE YOU TELL WOMEN (AND MEN) ABORTION IS NECESSARY AND A BABY WILL RUIN THEIR LIVES. That scares them. They abort. You perpetuate the problem.

"Also, abortion is NOT torture. It isn't even painful for a fetus in the first trimester, because its nervous system has not even developed enough for it to feel any pain,and the vast majority of abortions are not late ones."

More lies. They don't know HOW fetal-stage neural connections work. As a matter of fact, there are some who hypothesize that since the connections are immature, painful stimuli is MORE painful for an under-developed body. You ASSUME this is the case because it makes YOU feel better.

"All you anti-choicers arguments against abortion are false. None of them holds the slightest water. Your arguments are entirely circular. You advocate the impossible"

No, I'm pretty sure I just pointed out where YOU are wrong, Mr. Berger.Although you might be sufficiently delusional to think you've won some grand argument, I suppose...

"...a world in which every pregnancy results in a birth..."

Every pregnancy DOES result in a birth, Mr. Berger. Sometimes a live birth, sometimes not.

"...pregnant women give birth to children even if they are deserately poor..."

Yeah, that sucks at first, but if you buckle down, you get through it. It's this thing we call "life", Mr. Berger, and you might want to investigate it a little more in-depth before you go around saying who is entitled to it and who is not.

"...where the government does nothing to help poor pregnant women because "charities can and should provide for children".'

I just think charities could do a better job. If they're unable to handle the load, then government could intercede much as they do now through WIC/food stamps/etc., but it doesn't mean I still don't think government could and should do less and private entities made specifically for these problems could and should do more. It would probably even be a gradual phase-out of government programs to private programs complete with incentives and education providers to not only help the poor while they need it, but get them to a place where they can help themselves. You're just not looking for better answers because you seem to like the ones you have, even though they're obviously not working. Why is that, Mr. Berger?

"And where married couples all have huge families whether or not they have the means to provide for them..."

I have 2 kids. That's all I'm planning on producing myself. We don't have much right now, and having more than two kids to support would make it very difficult for my husband to attend school. There's no problem with this for me.

"...no one uses contraception.

I have my tubes tied. It doesn't get much more contraceptive than that.

"You are also opposed to divorce,"

Not if it's direly needed...some families would probably benefit from divorce, others use it as an easy out and everyone suffers.

"homosexuality"

Not me. And certainly not at least a few others here. You're unfairly generalizing, Robert.

"pornography"

Not really. I don't like it myself, personally, but if some adults want to be exhibitionists for other adults, and other adults want to watch it, as long as they're not hurting anyone, go for it.

"I'm sorry, but you have totally unrealistic goals and expectations. You're trying to stop the tide at the beach with teaspoons."

You do realize that there was a point in our nation's history before Roe VS. Wade, right? You can't say it can never be done, because that was the DEFAULT POSITION!!

Posted by: xalisae at September 3, 2009 12:15 PM


You never answered my question before, either, Mr. Berger:

What has happened in your life, specifically to you, to make you support abortion in such a way?

Posted by: xalisae at September 3, 2009 12:20 PM


Good Lord, what was life like before 1973??!!

Robert,
I am sorry you are so clueless. I am sorry that you think abortion is the answer to everything and that it is necessary. I am sorry that you do not understand the emotional pain it causes a woman to realize she killed her own child in an abortion. I am sorry you do not know Truth.
I am sorry I wasted my time typing this.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at September 3, 2009 12:36 PM


Thank you, Carla, X, and PIP. Well spoken. :)

Posted by: Vannah at September 3, 2009 1:57 PM


Wait a second Jill, doesn't your theological and philosophical views affirm this idea that God can determine a person's time of death?

This guy may want God to end Obama's life EARLIER than you might think God will want to end Obama's life, but imprecatory prayers for evil people in office has a legitimate scriptural basis in the Psalms which was referenced by the leadership in Acts ["let his days be few and another take his office"].

Posted by: Ezek1319 at September 3, 2009 2:47 PM


This guy may want God to end Obama's life EARLIER than you might think God will want to end Obama's life, but imprecatory prayers for evil people in office has a legitimate scriptural basis in the Psalms which was referenced by the leadership in Acts ["let his days be few and another take his office"].
Posted by: Ezek1319 at September 3, 2009 2:47 PM

Ezek,

Quote for me where in the Bible anyone prays for anyone else to burn in Hell?

The venomous nature of the "pastor"'s cries really i what gets me the most. We should NEVER pray for ANYONE to experience Hell.

Posted by: MaryRose at September 3, 2009 3:22 PM


I believe as me being a christian and young and still learning but for what i know everything that is happening right now with the world falling into place like this was written in the bible with obama being presiedent finacial issues and now the pastor that everybody will praise not in those exact words but this is how the world is suppose to end am i scared no. But i am curious. This pastor is not human i can say that. When your talking to him your talking to flesh. Demons or the devil him self takling over his body. Im not crazy but im just saying. I dont agree with him why would a pastor and a christian one at that wish this. Your evil and probaley teach false stuff in your church. No man of God has the right to wish death on anybody.God knows whats right and wrong he see's right through this and will not i repeat will not do such a thing until it it obama's time to go. So i suggest you keep your cruel thoughts to yourself!

Posted by: Danielle at September 7, 2009 3:11 PM


Wow. How sad. Another person to pray for. I think we can all say that this man needs our prayers for conversion, just as Obama does. This pastor is dangerous. I would not welcome his tyrants in my presence. Hate has no place here or anywhere. Thank you Jill for reminding us that there are needs on both ends of the spectrum in this battle for LIFE. Bless you.

Posted by: Deanna at September 7, 2009 8:18 PM


Robert,

I have a question for you that I posted on another thread, and I suppose I'll just have to chase you around until you answer it:

If the government enacted a plan that you believed provided adequate care for the poor, would you then join us in making abortion illegal?

Posted by: Janette at September 7, 2009 8:27 PM