Jivin J's Life Links 11-25-09

UPDATE, 12:30p from JLS: LiveAction.org alerted me to a Northlands News Center report on Jivin J's 1st bullet point below:

Typical MSM, bending over backwards to say violence by pro-aborts "rare and isolated," and also "uncommon" if you didn't catch "rare and isolated." Also loved the free plug the reporter gave the abortion mill, alerting viewers to its many services besides abortion.

web grab.jpgby JivinJ

  • A sidewalk counselor at an abortion clinic in MN apparently had a knife held to her throat by a woman going into the clinic:
  • The incident occurred at 7:47 a.m., according to demonstrators, who said the suspect was on her way into the building and exchanged words with them before pulling a knife. The suspect reportedly held the knife to the neck of one demonstrator and told her to stop speaking. When the second demonstrator reportedly went to help the first, the suspect allegedly threatened her with the knife as well....

    Neither demonstrator was injured, and the suspect reportedly entered the building.

    Duluth Police arrested the suspect inside and said they found a knife in her purse. She was taken into custody and sent to the St. Louis County Jail, where she is being held pending charges of second-degree assault.

  • Phillip Levine, a professor at Wellesley College points out in a New York Times editorial that the effects of the Stupak amendment have been exaggerated and thinks that health care reform could lower the number of unintended pregnancies because of contraceptive coverage:
  • The women whose abortion coverage would be at risk are those who are covered by private insurance - some 42 million women aged 15 to 44. Insurers could decide to drop all abortion coverage in order to ensure their eligibility to participate in public insurance exchanges, where many Americans are expected to purchase insurance if health reform legislation passes.

    But women who have private insurance are not as likely as women with no insurance or public insurance to have abortions. Privately insured women tend to be older, with higher family income, and women in these groups are much less prone to seek abortions.

  • A local ABC affiliate is covering Caitlin Bruce's lawsuit against abortion Alberto Hodari (called Abraham in the article):
  • Bruce was just 18 years old and 6 months pregnant when she says she walked into the Feminine Health Care Clinic in Flint last year.

    "I was nervous and I really didn't have the moral support I needed. And I just didn't know what to do," Bruce said.

    Bruce says she wrestled with her decision in the waiting room.

    "They started the ultrasound. The lady turned the ultrasound toward me and said, 'This is your baby. This is the heart flicker,'" Bruce said.

    Bruce says that's when she changed her mind. But she claims Dr. Abraham Hodari did the procedure anyway.

    "He told his assistant, 'Hold her down.' They had my arm pinned," Bruce said.

    "My client acted properly under the circumstance. This was an abortion that was consented to," said Steve Weiss, Hodari's attorney.

    "When the patient first expressed misgivings about it, it was too far along for Dr. Hodari to stop."


    Comments:

    This makes me so sad and sick, both for her and the baby. I just hate it.

    Posted by: Becca at November 25, 2009 11:24 AM


    Well, at least they covered the assault. So many of these attacks on prolifers are captured on tape, from both cops and random pro-aborts, but they aren't often given enough attention to even get charges filed. At least this is one time justice will come.

    That attorney's quote on Bruce's story makes me sick >:(

    Posted by: Sioko at November 25, 2009 3:26 PM


    Hmm, about the assault is sad, but it's especially sad that the woman felt pushed or threatened by the pro-lifers presence enough to react with violence. I can say however that the woman wouldn't of gotten very far into the clinic however because most, if not all clinics prohibit individuals entering the clinic to carry weapons on their person, including knives, and have metal detectors at the door.

    Posted by: Rachael C. at November 25, 2009 4:28 PM


    I love the euphemism "sidewalk counselor" for a thug that assaults, screams at and threatens people who have the right to be left alone.

    Posted by: Bystander at November 25, 2009 6:29 PM


    Wait a minute BS'r, who's doing the screaming, threatening, & assaulting here? Also, there's no evidence the sidewalk counselor was doing any of these things and in defending this woman's actions, you are advocating violence & retribution.

    Posted by: Rachael C. at November 25, 2009 7:09 PM


    Bystander, sidewalk counselors do not threaten people! I know because I used to be one. Nor have they ever been armed, to my knowledge.

    However, most people don't ordinarily carry knives in their purse, so it's clear this woman with the knife was planning to threaten someone all along.

    Posted by: Lori Pieper at November 25, 2009 7:33 PM


    I have to say, Bystander, I can not think of anything more ironic than a pro-choicer complaining about a euphemism.

    Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at November 25, 2009 7:46 PM


    Lori, I agree that maybe this woman was on the defensive, for what ever reason, & maybe there were protesters there holding signs and yelling things, which would of escalated things, and this woman interpreted the sidewalk counselor's approach as threatening.

    Posted by: Rachael C. at November 25, 2009 11:51 PM


    Maybe she wasn't a frightened and "defensive" pregnant woman. She could just as easily have been a clinic employee who wanted to throw a scare into those who were eating into her business. I'll be really interested in finding out.

    Posted by: Lori Pieper at November 26, 2009 1:16 AM


    Many "sidewalk counselors" are simply criminals and sociopaths who assault and scream at women at clinics, since they would be arrested and prosecuted if they did it anywhere else. I fully support self-defense against these thugs.

    Posted by: Bystander at November 26, 2009 9:16 AM


    Bystander, do you have any evidence at all to back up this ridiculous claim? How many sidewalk counselors can you name who have criminal records for assault?

    Posted by: Lori Pieper at November 26, 2009 11:50 AM


    Lori how quickly you forget. Of course there is sidewalk counselor Scott Roeder who shot Dr. Tiller in the head in church. Paul Hill, sidewalk consellor who killed Doctor Gunn and his bodyguard in FL,and James Kopp, sidewalk counsellor who killed Dr. Slepian. Another sidewalk counsellor shot Tiller 4 times in 1994.

    Sidewalk counselors who bombed or attempted to bomb clinics include Eric Rudolph and Cheryl Sullenger, a friend of Roeder.

    Sidewalk counsellors found guilty of assault include Child Beater Bob Enyart of Denver who went to jail for beating a 7 year old and his buddy Ken Scott, who was found guilty of abusing his former spouses, including slamming an ex wife's head through a wall, and who is the subject of at least four current restraining orders for threats of violence. Ken really likes to scream at and threaten women. Big Man.

    Need I go on? I could name dozens of other sidewalk counselors found guilty of crimes ranging from simple assault to murder, but the turkey is getting cold, and you are in denial.

    Posted by: Bystander at November 26, 2009 4:57 PM


    Bystander it won't wash. You cannot just take every violent criminal who has some fringe connection with the anti-abortion movement and make them into a "sidewalk counselor." Do you have any idea what a sidewalk counselor even IS?

    I am not talk about just every person who protests at Planned Parenthood or elsewhere. I am talking about the prayerful people who do in fact counsel pregnant women who are going into the abortion clinics. I have been in those groups. I was part of the prayer team who supported those who spoke to the women. That's what we did. We prayed and spoke. Few of any of us even carried signs. We did not yell at people.

    Scott Roeder was not a sidewalk counselor. His only connection with Operation Rescue was to post to their website, and to phone and ask question. He was a violent disturbed man who would never have had the patience to actually talk to people and make a difference. Nor did Eric Rudolph, to the best of my knowledge, ever serve as a sidewalk counselor. Nor was Bob Enyart, though he did protest Planned Parenthood moving into his neighborhood. I'm sure the rest of your identifications of people are false as well.

    I know this most likely get through to you, but if the only thing you have to support your position is lies, then you had best not post anything at all.

    Posted by: Lori Pieper at November 26, 2009 5:48 PM


    I worked briefly as a sidewalk counselor at Planned Parenthood here in Philly, and I NEVER screamed, assaulted, or harrassed anyone, male or female. I just passed out pamphlets and told women that help was available. That's all- we just offered support for women who were thinking of keeping their babies. If that makes me a "thug" -- well, what can I say?

    Posted by: Phillymiss at November 27, 2009 12:11 PM


    Lori, enjoy your dream world. As you know, Scott Roeder was a "sidewalk counselor" for years before he killed Tiller, aided, abetted and encouraged by Operation Rescue. Child Beater Bob Enyart has been a "sidewalk counselor" for years.

    I am not saying every "sidewalk counselor" is a mentally deranged violent criminal, but enough are to put people who are assaulted by them in reasonable fear for their safety.

    The law protects those who protect themselves, and I have no problem with someone brandishing a knife or a gun to avoid being a victim when assaulted and screamed at by a group of 15 or 20 thugs, whether in a parking lot or a clinic.

    Posted by: Bystander at November 27, 2009 12:15 PM


    Bystander, what is your proof that Scott Roeder was a sidewalk counselor? And Bob Enyart? You've yet to provide any proof; you're just making assertions.

    On what basis do you assume that this woman was being harassed, threatened, or screamed at? According to this article:

    Hall’s alleged motivation is unclear. According to the criminal complaint, at one point, she held the knife in a threatening manner and said "The reason I’m doing this is because I am certified crazy." She’s accused of holding the knife to the throat of a 21-year-old woman who was handing out pamphlets outside the Building for Women.

    The alleged victim told police that Hall told her not to come near her. As Hall walked toward the front entrance of the building, the demonstrator said she told her: "Don’t do this! Fear God!"

    Hall allegedly walked up to the woman, held a knife to the victim’s throat and said, "Don’t come near me. Stop!" The woman said she wasn’t hurt by the knife. Police found a knife in Hall’s purse.

    Judge Eric Hylden was asking Hall some basic questions to determine whether she qualified for release from the St. Louis County Jail on Wednesday when Hall blurted out: "I know what I did was wrong."

    Oh yes, sounds like those evil protesters were being so threatening and harassing. Perhaps you should get the facts of a story first before making blanket judgments?

    Posted by: JoAnna at November 27, 2009 1:42 PM


    Go ahead Bysander, and live in your own dream world, untroubled by the facts. You have provided no proof that Roeder or any of those you mentioned were ever sidewalk counselors. I read all the news reports about these people, and you can be sure the pro-abortion media would have mentioned every pro-life connection these people had. I never heard a thing about them counseling at abortion clinics. What's your special secret source of information?

    Interesting how in your original post you were satisfied with saying that sidewalk counselors "assault and scream at women," then suddenly when challenged, you escalate and call them murderers. Why didn't you think of that at first? You clearly came up with that after the fact. Pretty much on a par with your whole name-calling, fact-free approach.

    Posted by: Lori Pieper at November 27, 2009 1:57 PM


    (cont) If you had just said "the fact that there are some violent and murderous people on the fringers of the pro-life movement could make some people afraid of all pro-lifers," I wouldn't have any complaints. But of course, that's not what you said. You don't know any other way of talking but attack mode, no other way to make your point but hyperbole and lies. If you could tone it down, you might be able to actually dialogue with people.

    Posted by: Lori Pieper at November 27, 2009 2:05 PM


    Whenever I used to counsel, if someone shouted or said something that might be construed to be offensive or upsetting, they were chastised for it.

    One of my most disturbing encounters was with a young black woman who we were trying to talk to. We mentioned adoption and she said "no one wants my black baby." That's from the media spreading the LIE that black children are unadoptable! Argggggggggggggggggh!

    Posted by: Phillymiss at November 27, 2009 3:29 PM


    According to the article that JoAnna quoted, it's actually the woman with the knife in this case who has the criminal record for assault:

    "According to Wisconsin court records, Hall was charged in 2006 with endangering safety by the use of a dangerous weapon. She pleaded guilty to an amended complaint charging her with disorderly conduct in that case."

    Posted by: Lori Pieper at November 27, 2009 3:57 PM


    Lori, your efforts to isolate Roeder are ironic, when "pro-life" leaders, particulary his enablers at Operation Rescue vist him in jail every day.

    My comments are not directed at the MN incident, as it is not clear what happened. I believe that
    anyone harrassed, threatened and assaulted by a crowd of thugs has the right to self defense and to brandish a weapon to protect themselves, and that people who act like thugs deserve what they get. If you don't like it, stop being a thug.

    Posted by: Bystander at November 27, 2009 4:24 PM


    Really, Bystander. You have proof that he's being visited by the leaders of OR. I'd love to see any record of Troy Newman coming anywhere near him.

    Of course, you can't produce that because you're a liar.

    As for sidewalk counselors, you don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about. Do you know what we do outside an abortion clinic? We hold up signs that say "Need help? Call XXXX" and hand out information. I've never seen a single counselor be disrespectful to any one coming into the clinic, dispite the fact that we're flipped off and cussed out.

    I know it doesn't fit into your little made up world of what a pro-lifer looks like, but that's because you're being willfully ignorant.

    Posted by: Lauren at November 27, 2009 6:38 PM


    Well, Bystander, talk about being in denial. . .

    I've had enough of this.

    Posted by: Lori Pieper at November 27, 2009 6:54 PM


    Here's a new angle on this silly debate, because it hasn't been mentioned and yet is the elephant in the room.

    Pro-aborts are not violent. In fact, we are usually the victims of harassment and rarely, violence from the anti-abort side.

    A friend of mine is a provider. She moved out of a big city, where her identity was never leaked nor revealed to the anti-abort side. She moved to a rural area of a progressive, blue state. She works for a hospital, not an exposed clinic. She thought she would continue an anonymous existence as a hospital-based provider.

    But someone at a health insurance company leaked her name and address to a local protester. Withing weeks, letters were mailed to all her neighbors within a quarter-mile radius, informing them that an abortionist was living among them, and hinted that something should be done about it (you know, just in case any of the neighbors is a nut with a firearm). The harassment has escilated and continued.

    I now the anti-abort side likes to argue that such harassment is normal, because providers are ashamed of their jobs, or are agents of satan, etc. But this is a woman who has a husband and child, and is now possibly being threatened by someone because of the type of medicine she practices.

    My question is this. Would any pro-abort get away with such harassment against an anti? Yes, one reason we don't is because we don't want to draw more attention to ourselves and further jeopardize our security. But from a legal perspective, if we harassed the other side, I'm pretty sure we'd be caught and brought before a civil suit. Police tell us to obey the law and stay silent. So we don't retaliate.

    I will admit that my side has far better resources. We have powerful friends, lawyers, and security apparatuses. If we find who is sending such letters, we will make sure they pay a steep price financially and possibly more. The antis became more effective in the 90s. But we got a lot smarter this decade.

    Posted by: Dhalgren at November 27, 2009 8:08 PM


    Dhalgren,
    I will pray for your friend that she will have a change of heart and mind about doing abortions. That kind of life must be very difficult for her child to grow up in.

    Posted by: Janet at November 28, 2009 12:06 PM


    Not knowing all the details of this incident,
    I can't pass judgement on it.
    Possibly the woman had been terribly harassed by anti-abortion protesters in the past and was frightened of harm to herself.
    I've never heard about any similar incident in
    a similar situation. I don't condone using a knife,but possibly previous experiences made her
    fearful.

    Posted by: Robert Berger at November 30, 2009 6:21 PM


    Sure you can. You can pass all of the judgment on it that you want to. It was wrong. There. There's my judgment. Your turn.

    Keep telling yourself that we are all crazies tearing up the place, Robert. It justifies your thinking that abortion is good and right and helps women.

    Just heard another report of an abortion clinic worker who shoved a 6 month pregnant prolifer outside the clinic. Do you think the worker felt "threatened??"

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at November 30, 2009 6:55 PM