Jivin J's Life Links 12-24-09

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  • Congressman Bart Stupak (D-MI) tells National Review that he's not going to get bought off:
  • Stupak tells us that he's disappointed that Democratic leaders have offered him legislative favors in exchange for supporting Obamacare. "This shouldn't be a bill where you use hush money," says Stupak...

    On abortion, Stupak says that the language of the health-care bill must be crystal clear. "There cannot be, in any way, public funding for abortion," says Stupak. "What the Nelson compromise does is recognize abortion for the first time as a benefit in a federal health plan. It mandates that at least one plan has abortion coverage. Those are drastic changes to the current law."...

  • Senator Sam Brownback has an editorial in Politico on abortion and health care reform:
  • Even if the Democrats are able to ram this bill through the Senate, there is still hope that it may founder in the conference with House Democrats. Both abortion rights supporters and anti-abortion advocates on the House side have pledged to vote against the current abortion-funding language in the Reid amendment and called it unacceptable.

    Since the Democrats are working with a thin margin of support for the bill in the House, it is just possible that the attempt to use health care reform to force taxpayer funding for abortion will end up killing the bill. This is now the central debate in reconciling the differences between the House and Senate Democratic bills. If the issue of abortion funding brings down this bill, it will be a victory for the cause of protecting innocent human life. That would be an irony that Henry Hyde would have greatly appreciated.

  • You would think that pro-life evangelicals would read the abortion language in the Senate's health care reform bill before signing their names in support of it because of language they thought would be added. Unfortunately, numerous liberal "pro-life" evangelicals (including Doug Kmiec, Ron Sider and Brian McLaren) decided not to and signed a statement in support of Senator Casey's amendment to the health care bill:
  • Casey's alternative language, which we expect to be available in its final legislative form soon, could ensure that strong provider conscience protections passed in the House bill are maintained; no federal funds pay for abortions in any way; and no premium dollars from individuals who opt out of abortion coverage will be used to fund abortions.
    None of the above is included in the final version of the Senate's health care bill.


    Meanwhile, the far right/GOP announced their alternative health care reform, where you are uninsured if you are poor or sick, go to the emergency room, and file bankruptcy when they come to collect the bills.

    GOP spokesman Ebenezer Scrooge said:

    "Are there no prisons? Are there no work houses?"
    "If they are to die, let them die and decrease the surplus population"

    The difference is that Ebenezer Scrooge reformed and became a good person, but the GOP never will.

    Posted by: Bystander at December 24, 2009 2:31 PM

    I have been poor and sick and pregnant and even been to the emergency room when I didn't have insurance. No bankruptcy for me. Thanks.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at December 24, 2009 2:44 PM

    Well, Carla 40% of the personal bankruptcies in the US are forced by uninsured medical expenses, so I guess you are the exception to the rule.

    Posted by: Bystander at December 24, 2009 3:01 PM

    Why is this even discussed at the federal level? Should not health care be handled exclusively by the states (as Massachussetts, Maine, and Tennessee have done)?

    Posted by: Michael Ejercito at December 24, 2009 4:08 PM

    I have always gotten the care I need when I didn't have health insurance. I agreed to pay what I could monthly even if it was only $25. Maybe major surgery might have been a different story....but Mary who comments here(she's a nurse)has always maintained that everyone who has walked through the door at her hospital has gotten the care they need as well.....regardless of their ability or inability to pay for it.

    I got a kick out of your Palin bashing posts, btw. I don't begrudge you your Obama tshirt one bit. Did he sign it? LOL

    Merry Christmas to you and yours, Bystander!!

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at December 24, 2009 10:50 PM

    Oh and Bystander?
    What specifically do you LIKE about the government takeover of health care?
    What do you find good and right and positive about it?

    I have to go fill some stockings now. I was just killing time but maybe I'll check back tomorrow....

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at December 24, 2009 10:52 PM

    Unfortunately, I live in the real world, not Carla and Mary's magic world where some gentle spirit provides you unlimited medical care and never sends you a bill. What color is the sky in your world?

    What health care refom offers me is the opportunity to get health insurance, since I am permanently black listed from being insured in the private market, because I had a minor heart procedure 15 years ago. Maybe if I lived in Carla and Mary's magic world, that wouldn't be a concern. Here on earth, it can be a problem.

    Posted by: Bystander at December 25, 2009 10:04 AM

    Didn't say I never got a bill. Just got the bill for my son's broken leg. Will be paying 100 bucks a month until that is paid off.

    Magic world. Riiiiiiiiiight.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at December 25, 2009 10:57 AM

    Carla I am LOL when I read BSers BS, straight from the Obama playbook. Merry Christmas Carla. I am so glad you stated what goes on in the real world. I have worked in healthcare for years we have never turned away or gave less than excellent care to anyone regardless of their ability to pay. On your note Carla about being poor and receiving care for you and your family. I have family members who received healthcare for themselves and/or their kids on Medicaid, Medicare, uninsured, underinsured, unemployed or even minimum wage jobs, everyone of them has received healthcare either on a sliding fee scale, by making payment or through special government programs (some have even had their bills waived). God is good and America is good because of Godly, compassionate people in this nation. Take a hike to Europe, Canada, Cuba, or anywhere else in the world you want, BS and other socialized medicine proponents, I'll take America over anywhere else in the world. Period. That is why people come from all over the world to receive our healthcare. The things that we need improved in healthcare have NOTHING to do with Obamacare because Obamacare is not about healthcare for the poor and uninsured it is all about POWER, CONTROL, CONTROL OF 1/6TH OF THE US ECONOMY, SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, TRANSFORMING AMERICA, THE POWER OF LIFE AND DEATH OVER US CITIZENS, ABORTION ON DEMAND AND "never letting a good crisis go to waste". God help our nation. The Kool-aid is poison.

    Posted by: Prolifer L at December 25, 2009 12:32 PM

    Prolifer L says his family and friends rely on Medicaid, Medicare, and "special government programs" for medical services, but he doesn't want the government involved in health care. Was he the guy at the tea party rally with the sign that said "keep the government out of my Medicare"? LOL

    Posted by: Bystander at December 25, 2009 12:47 PM

    Carla, I expect the $100 a month plan works a lot better on a $5,000 broken leg than a $50,000 burst appendix or a $250,000 by-pass,so good luck.

    I think your BFF Sarah should park her Gulfstream II private jet for 35 minutes or so, and pay your son's medical bill, you wearin' her picture on your shirt and all.

    Have a good Christmas Carla,fun sparring with you.

    Posted by: Bystander at December 25, 2009 1:23 PM

    Tenn Care was a bust in Tennessee. Did not work...went broke just like what happened in Mass.

    Posted by: Maria at December 25, 2009 1:59 PM

    News flash.

    GOP blocks pro abortion Judicial appointment.

    During the hearing, other lawmakers expressed dismay at 20-year-old comments by Johnson comparing "forced pregnancy" with slavery.

    In a brief filed when she was a lawyer with the National Abortion Rights Action League, Johnsen cited a footnote that said forcing women to bear children was "disturbingly suggestive of involuntary servitude, prohibited by the 13th Amendment, in that forced pregnancy requires a woman to provide continuous physical service to the fetus in order to further the state's asserted interest."


    Dawn Johnsen= bad news. she is lying about abortion.

    Posted by: xppc at December 25, 2009 2:48 PM

    Is that what we do? Spar? Ha

    I think I could maybe sell the autographed shirt and book and pay the rest of the bill!! Thanks for the idea!! :)

    I am married to my BFF.

    Seriously though, I am sorry you don't have health insurance. I have been there. Through two pregnancies. Welcome to my real world. :)

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at December 25, 2009 4:38 PM

    :) I suppose it's appropriate for Bystander to appear on Christmas; "Troll the ancient yuletide carol, fa la la la la, la la la la..."

    Seriously, though, Bystander: have you not absorbed the fact that Christians (and pro-lifers of all types) do not think that the GOP is the end-all and be-all of everything? It's merely the lesser (by far) of two prominent political evils. Some GOP politicians may be cowards or muddle-heads who give mere lip-service to the protection of life, but there aren't many who make it their life's work to enshrine baby-killing into national law as a "right".

    You also seem to be under the impression that the so-called "Health Care Reform Bill" will do anything productive for health care in this country. Given the disasters that are the socialized medicine programs in Canada, England, Scandanavia, etc., and given the morass that is the current bill (and projections of throwing the country into insane debt which will prove fatal to any social system), what exactly sustains your faith in this particular manifestation of "hope and change"?

    Posted by: Paladin at December 25, 2009 6:53 PM

    BSer you are indeed a troll full of BS, like Paladin posted. You don't read very well or more likely you ignore what you read. I NEVER said I did not want the government "involved" in healthcare (if you have never had any family members who have been on Medicare (seniors or on dialysis) or Medicaid because they fell on hard times good for you) I said I don't want a government "takeover" of healthcare. We don't need it because this Obamacare BS is NOT about healthcare at all it is about what I said it is about. Go back and read my post. The problems we have with healthcare can be fixed without socialized medicine, aka "The Chicago Way" political radical leftist government takeover. We have the best healthcare in the world which is going to be ruined by Obamacare. But what a waste of my time to be trying to use rational conversation with a troll who justifies baby-killing on demand on one of the most holy days of the year. Merry CHRISTmas.

    Posted by: Prolifer L at December 25, 2009 9:08 PM

    God bless Rep. Stupak and give him the grace to fight for his moral convictions in the face of such evil.

    Posted by: Kristen at December 26, 2009 9:07 AM


    The United States Constitution, nor I suspect do any of the fifty states constituions, guarantee any one a 'right' much less an entitlement to health insurance or health care.

    I remember once when Jesse Ventura was campaigning for governor of Minnesota a young woman asked him what he would do as governor to ensure that the state government would provide single moms like her with child care.

    Jesse responded in a rare moment of candor, "Just how did the citizens of Minnesota become involved in your decision to have sex?

    Obviously you have NOT died because of your inabililty to obtain health insurance.

    Please include a codcil in your last will and testament that will ensure that we are informed when you assume room temperature, notifying us of the exact cause(s) of your death.

    Then we can reach an informed conclusion as to what, if anything, we as 'free' people could or should do in the future to prevent anyone else from suffering the same fate.

    You may righly claim that health issues and resultant medical bills force some people to declare bankruptcy, but it makes no sense to promote a scheme on that will force the
    U.S. Government, and by extension succeeding generations, into bankruptcy.

    Your proposed cure is more dangerous and deadly than the imagined crisis.

    There is an old maxim that legislators should keep in mind.

    "Extreme cases make for bad law."

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at December 26, 2009 10:17 AM

    I see Faux Noise is still spoon-feeding their HCR talking points to the brainwashed. Try going cold turkey from Faux for 30 days, and your ability to think for yourself and reason might return spontaneously without the need for deprogramming or therapy.

    Posted by: Bystander at December 26, 2009 10:26 AM


    Prolifer L wrote, to you: "You don't read very well or more likely you ignore what you read.

    Exactly. That, plus your obvious attempts to flame anything that moves (that doesn't agree with your politically liberal, atheistic nonsense), marks you as a troll in these here parts, fella.

    (Hint: "Snark, snark, snark, LOL" isn't exactly winning you a seat with the greatest rhetoricians of all time.)

    I'm not at all sure you'd critically rethink your most recent troll-flames if I told you that I don't have a TV, and therefore haven't watched Fox News (or any of the mental sewage from the MSM, for that matter) for at least 10 years. You might try taking your own medicine, and ditching your TV altogether! It's helped to get the culture of death out of people who were more far-gone than you...

    Regrettably, I suspect you'll just volley back another troll-snark with negligible substance; so be it. It's a free country. Just don't expect anyone with sanity or sense to trust you or take you seriously, until you leave your troll suit at home.

    Posted by: Paladin at December 26, 2009 11:02 AM

    For those not foaming at the mouth like Paladin, conservative blogger Andrew Sullivan has an excellent piece on his blog The Daily Dish today about how outrageously costly and ineffective US health care is compared to every other industrialzed country.

    Posted by: Bystander at December 26, 2009 1:42 PM

    (*sigh*) I can hear Socrates, yet again, telling me: "Paladin, for the 10,000th time: don't feed the trolls!" I didn't listen to his wise words then, either... mouth-foam notwithstanding. :)

    Prediction #1: "Regrettably, I suspect you'll just volley back another troll-snark with negligible substance [...]". Check.

    Prediction/comment #2: "You don't read very well or more likely you ignore what you read." Check. (Care to address the *actual bill* being addressed in Congress?)

    ...but his really stopped me in my tracks:

    conservative blogger Andrew Sullivan has an excellent piece on his blog The Daily Dish today about how outrageously costly and ineffective US health care is compared to every other industrialzed country. (emphasis added)

    Please tell me you're joking.

    Andrew Sullivan:

    1) Pro-Obama

    2) openly homosexual (paragraph 6)

    3) sympathetic to the "pro-choice" position

    What exactly was in that holiday eggnog you had, when you called this fellow a "conservative"?

    But have you seriously not clued in to the fact that "pro-life" is not a political term (though it's been co-opted)? It's a moral position, not a political one... though you may be one of the types who see everything through political lenses, no matter what anyone else says. As such, nothing you say about "GOP" or "conservatives" really has any relevance, here. Care to try again, given the corrected info?

    Posted by: Paladin at December 26, 2009 2:35 PM

    Paladin excellent post. When I read Andrew Sullivan labeled as "conservative" I almost lost my cookies then I remembered who was posting this BS, BSer a very accurate description of the trolls comments. I won't waste my time bothering to respond. Paladin how are you doing? We are snowed in here with an after Christmas blizzard in the Midwest, and it is not even close to slowing down.

    Posted by: Prolifer L at December 26, 2009 3:01 PM

    Bystander 10:04am

    My magic world where a magic spirit provides care and never sends a bill?

    Eh Bystander, that's the magic world of government run health care according to people like you. Hey, never mind 875,000 Canadians on waiting lists(google) to take advantage of their wonderful gov't run health care system or the fact that hospitals in the city of my birth have been contracted to provide care to Canadian citizens by the very gov't that runs their health care but can't provide the services to their citizens our American hospitals can.

    40% of bankruptcies are due to medical bills? What about the other 60%? Any magical government program to rememdy those? How about innocent people bankrupted by legal fees in an effort to stay out of jail or clear their name? Should the gov't take over the legal profession?

    Hey BS, did you hear how British women were denied a life saving breast cancer drug by their wonderful gov't run care? Better luck next time ladies.
    That was a great shock to an American woman I spoke to who is convinced this drug, available in the US, saved her life.

    You're blacklisted BS'er? Well maybe insurance reform is what is needed, allow insurance companies to compete across state lines and like Geico and Allstate, they will be competing for your business. There are far better solutions that do not involve the gov't and billions of additional expense to the taxpayer.

    Posted by: Mary at December 26, 2009 4:13 PM

    Prolifer L wrote:

    I won't waste my time bothering to respond (to Bystander).

    :) You're wiser than I am! (I think I'll follow suit; I do try to throw a few comments in the hope that a few seeds of truth might be sown, even in rocky ground... and also to blunt any scandal to those who listen to him and are tempted to take his comments seriously; but you're right: enough is enough.)

    Paladin how are you doing? We are snowed in here with an after Christmas blizzard in the Midwest, and it is not even close to slowing down.

    Interesting! Our part of the Midwest has had ice storms, mostly, but not even many of those; so we're doing well enough. I hope you get un-stuck, soon! A blessed Christmastide to you and yours!

    Posted by: Paladin at December 26, 2009 6:23 PM

    The snow finally stopped but we got at least a foot. We will need to dig out, hopefully we can do that by tomorrow and hopefully the worst is over.

    Regarding BSer I don't think I am wiser but he doesn't want an intelligent discourse but to frustrate prolifers with senseless arguing. When he made the post about Andrew Sullivan being "conservative", I knew it was total waste of time.

    Have a blessed New Year, Paladin.

    Posted by: Prolifer L at December 26, 2009 7:09 PM

    I want to encourage you Mr. Stupak to change parties.

    Posted by: Phil Schembri is Hisman at December 30, 2009 2:11 PM