Jivin J's Life Links 3-1-10

web grab.jpgby JivinJ

  • Legal abortion until birth? That's the position of some abortion workers at the Abortioneers blog. Though such an idea would likely be repugnant to most self-described pro-choicers, if you favor legal abortion because of your belief in a woman's bodily autonomy argument, it makes the most logical sense:
  • With the rise in technology, it has been said that the viability of a fetus will continue to be earlier and earlier. Do your values change if a fetus is viable at 20 weeks? Should there be limits to abortion procedures? 35 weeks?...

    In my opinion, no. I constantly try to re-evaluate where I stand on all facets of the pro-choice abortion movement, and I am still in favor of protecting the right of the woman until the first breath is taken, when the baby is born.

  • MI House Speaker Andy Dillon, a Democrat, has announced he will run for governor. He has a pro-life voting record. Hopefully, he won't water down his position to please some in his party.

  • Here's more on abortionist Kermit Gosnell. He was apparently claiming his medical aides were doctors when they weren't:
  • Those guys aren't doctors!

    That was the reaction of state authorities yesterday when they tried to verify the licenses of two people listed as medical doctors at Dr. Kermit B. Gosnell's West Philadelphia abortion clinic, which this week was hit with a series of gruesome allegations.

    Thumbnail image for gosnellclinic.JPG
    Steps away from the entrance to Gosnell's clinic, at 38th Street and Lancaster Avenue, a sign identifies Gosnell's externs, who are nonresident doctors or medical students, as Steven Masoff and G.A. Arthur.

    The sign clearly identifies both as M.D.'s.

    But neither is licensed to practice in the state, according to the PA Department of State. The Daily News was unable last night to reach Masoff or Arthur for comment.

    Also, it's not certain if Gosnell will face criminal charges:
    Gosnell declined to be interviewed by the Daily News last night, but told a Fox29 reporter on Thursday that he expected to be vindicated.

    "I provide the same care that I would want my daughter to receive," Gosnell said, noting that he had lived through negative publicity before.

    And get this. Susan Schewel, the leader of Women's Medical Fund (an abortion fund designed to help poor women pay for their abortions) would get one woman a year "complaining about poor or negligent care at Gosnell's clinic."

    So even though they regularly received complaints, they still helped women pay for their abortions there.


    Gee, where is everyone today?

    Posted by: Peg at March 1, 2010 2:44 PM

    We "anti-choice fanatics" are always portrayed as out of the mainstream, but most Americans do NOT believe that abortion should be available until the moment of birth!

    Posted by: Phillymiss at March 1, 2010 2:51 PM

    Actually, the abortionists are afraid to follow their own "logic" to its proper conclusion. They should, in fact must, support unlimited killing of human beings up to age 100 (or as long as we can live a natural lifespan).

    Remember, opponents of unborn human rights believe that all human beings can be killed in the unborn stage and each one of us can have our entire lifespans taken from us. Therefore, we do not and cannot have a right to such a lifespan. It follows from this that we can be killed at any time throughout our lives.

    So, you have to be "pro-choice" on killing 95 year olds, as well as late term unborn children. Only the intellectual dishonesty of the abortionist movement stops them from following this logic.

    Posted by: Joe at March 1, 2010 2:58 PM

    Because when you evaluate women's rights with an honest heart, the first thing that you think of is, "How can I be a big prick and capitalize on hardships so severe that people would consider ending a pregnancy just to make it through said hardships?"

    *winks and holds up thumbs reassuringly*

    Yeah, and when I happen to evaluate my status on pro-life, I think, "You can hold up a fist on all of your pro-choice flags if you want. I would still like to be devoted to peace and nonviolent solutions, equality for women, men, and children, and living in tune with all other life."

    But good luck getting everyone on board with the "if you take longer than two seconds to breathe, kid, you're out of luck" plan.

    Okay, now I must step off of my soapbox and declare that it's best to search for peace instead of leave a comment on a blog. ^.^

    Posted by: Vannah at March 1, 2010 2:58 PM

    I would still like to be devoted to peace and nonviolent solutions, equality for women, men, and children, and living in tune with all other life."

    Amen! I love you!

    Posted by: Phillymiss at March 1, 2010 4:03 PM

    In my opinion, no. I constantly try to re-evaluate where I stand on all facets of the pro-choice abortion movement, and I am still in favor of protecting the right of the woman until the first breath is taken, when the baby is born.

    So if the child is attached by the umbilical cord, and hasn't taken a breath yet, can it be killed?

    Why stop there?

    Posted by: Chris Arsenault at March 1, 2010 4:32 PM

    I support a woman's right to be born.

    A woman has a right to her body, even if she is still in the womb.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 1, 2010 4:39 PM

    I would love to see some actual answers to people taking the quiz.

    I think reasonable people can make an argument for an abortion early on. Hey, I'm not saying I agree with that, I'm not saying that it isn't morally wrong in my book - I'm just saying that obviously the argument is there because it has been the norm for quite some time.

    The thought though of an abortion "until the baby takes a breath" is a very disturbing thought. Unbelievably disturbing. I suppose part of the issue is that both sides take extreme positions because things will always meet in the middle - but come on, "until the baby takes a breath?" That sure wouldn't fly far in a public opinion poll.

    Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 1, 2010 5:18 PM


    Public opinion doesn't matter much in the abortion debate in this country. The vocal pro-abort minority wins because they support the politicians who make the laws.

    Posted by: Janet at March 1, 2010 5:24 PM

    All right. Here are my answers. The psych major side of me takes issue with the three-point response scale, so I will be using the seven-point response scale instead. Strongly agree, agree, somewhat agree, unsure, somewhat disagree, disagree, strongly disagree. :)

    Do you Agree or Disagree with the following statements:
    1. Every woman has the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy regardless of when during the pregnancy.
    strongly disagree

    2. Abortion should be allowed even beyond 24 weeks of pregnancy.
    strongly disagree

    3. Parental consent should be required for any teen under the age of 18 requesting an abortion.

    4. Women who have more than 5 abortions are irresponsible.

    5. Women who have more than 10 abortions are irresponsible.
    strongly agree

    6. Women should not use abortion as a form of birth control.
    strongly agree

    7. I think reproductive health advocacy organizations should promote the use of emergency contraception in order to decrease the number of abortions in the US each year.

    8. I feel uncomfortable if a woman has an abortion because of the gender of the pregnancy.
    strongly agree

    9. Male partners should have the right to be a part of the decision to terminate a pregnancy.
    somewhat agree

    10. I think a woman's right to choose to have an abortion is an absolute and inalienable right no matter what.
    strongly disagree

    One more activity to sit with is an open-ended finish the sentence:
    1. Abortions are: horrible.

    2. Women who have abortions are: victims of our culture that has lied to them and said it's okay.

    3. A woman facing an unwanted pregnancy needs to: be able to easily get to people who can help her and encourage her.

    4. In this country, abortion should be: illegal unless the pregnancy is life-threatening.

    5. People working to restrict abortion should: succeed. :)

    6. People working on behalf of women's right to choose should: fail. :p

    Posted by: Keli Hu at March 1, 2010 5:44 PM

    Awww, thanks, Phillymiss.

    I'm glad that you support peace and equality, too. :)

    Posted by: Vannah at March 1, 2010 6:34 PM

    Washington Man Electrocuted By Urinating On Power Line
    Mar 1 03:53 PM US/Eastern

    MONTESANO, Wash. (AP) - "Authorities believe a Washington man was killed by accidentally urinating on a downed power line after a car crash.

    Pimentel says there will be an autopsy but burn marks indicated the way the electricity traveled through Messenger's body."



    'You don't spit into the wind, you don't tug on the mask of ole lone ranger and you don't mess around with Jim or throw your water on a downed high power line.'

    This might qualify for nomination for the 'Darwin Award'.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at March 1, 2010 6:47 PM

    2. Women who have abortions are: victims of our culture that has lied to them and said it's okay.

    Posted by: Keli Hu at March 1, 2010 5:44 PM


    I take exception with the use of the word 'victim' unless the pregant female was forced or corerced into an elective abortion.

    I have to believe the overwhelming majority of wome who kill their pre-natal child know exactly what they are doing or they make a concerted effort to protect their 'bliss' by remaining willfully ignorant.

    These females are NOT 'victims'.

    They made a 'choice'.

    yor bro ken

    Posted by: kbhvac at March 1, 2010 6:57 PM

    I object to the use of the term 'termination of pregnancy'. The birth of the baby 'terminates' the pregnancy. If you're talking about abortion...that terminates the BABY, not the pregnancy. Sorry, just making a point .

    Posted by: Pamela at March 1, 2010 9:18 PM


    I usually enjoy your comments, but here I completely disagree. Speaking as a woman, I have been told from a young age, even (unintentionally) by my parents, that unless I got a college degree and was financially independent and stable, I would never quite have been a credit to my gender nor to my parents.

    My parents' intentions were good: encourage me to remain abstinent until I was married, encourage me to find fulfillment in my life without becoming dependent on a man, encourage me to feel like a strong woman... But their unintended consequences are that even with a strong Catholic background and the model example of a couple who trusted in God's plan, I felt completely out-of-control and like a failure when, at 21, young and married, I got pregnant with our son. I had never truly been financially independent! My husband and I were dirt broke and had no source of income! I didn't have a degree!

    I was so smart, and I had never gotten that degree, and never gotten into international relations like I had planned! What was I going to do? We didn't have the money for a child! And an only child isn't the image I had for my family, so what about future kids? I don't want them too spaced out, but we have to be financially responsible! We still have debt! What are we going to do?

    As a woman, these thoughts all went through my head, despite my incredibly loving and supportive husband. Despite being married, living on our own, and our uncanny ability to land on our feet despite every "crisis" we'd already encountered.

    I didn't believe I could be a sufficient mother, let alone a good mother.

    Thank God that abortion was always quite clearly the destruction of a human to me. Otherwise who knows what my decision would have been? I would quite possibly be without the most adorable little boys I've ever known!

    Women are ABSOLUTELY victims in abortion. Unfortunately, they don't KNOW the realities, let alone ACCEPT them. That's why we need to be louder, LOUDER, LOUDER about what abortion is and what it does.

    Posted by: MaryRose at March 1, 2010 10:43 PM

    Women who choose abortion are still deceived even though they chose it. They are believing the lies that abortion promises "freedom" and a "getting on with your life" and a way to "reach your goals" for education, marriage and a bright future. It is sold as a way to "take charge of your life."

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 2, 2010 8:45 AM

    I am so grateful for your story!! My thoughts were a swirl of anxiety and fear and were compounded because I was alone and broke and scared. You chose differently than I did and I am SOOOOOOO glad that you did!! Your voice is so needed!!

    I could have had my baby girl! I could have been strong and brave and courageous and given her life to raise her or put her up for adoption! There is nothing strong or brave or courageous about abortion.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 2, 2010 8:49 AM

    Here is what one abortion-lover said:

    Little Miss Know It All said...
    These are great questions. I admit to feeling a little uneasy with some of them (especially gender-selection) and I would like to share the only thing that has worked for me in confronting things like this.

    Using Gender Selection as en example:

    1) Acknowledge that this action is taken by a person who is fully capable.
    2)Trust that person.

    So I acknowledge that women who abort in order to select a gender are fully capable, intelligent human beings. I trust them to make the decisions in their lives.

    Does that mean that I no longer consider gender selection (given that it is almost always aimed at producing males over females) misogynist? Do I now think that everything to do with gender selection is peachy-keen? No! I simply acknowledge the other person's right and ability to make decisions for her life.

    Why is that so hard for people to do?

    Why can't an anti say: I acknowledge the ability of women to knowingly choose the course of their own reproductive health and trust them to do so.

    MARCH 1, 2010 1:04 AM

    To that I would love to reply "Oh I KNOW girl! I totally agree! I think a man is fully capable of making his own choices regarding his genitalia also and I fully trust him. So if he chooses to hold me down and chooses to use his genitalia to rape me, even though that might make me feel uncomfortable, and I realize the whole situation is not peachy-keen, I just have to realize he is a capable individual and I have to trust him to make the choice regarding his genitalia that is right for HIM. Of course if others rights are trampled in that process...oh well...you understand.

    Why can't those anti-rape people just respect that????

    These pro-aborts can't even clarify the issue in their own minds. You can read their discomfort and confusion in their posts. CAUSE THEY KNOW ABORTION TAKES A LIFE....easy to dismiss in the early stages of pregnancy but hard to ignore the closer to birth you get. And then you have to wonder why a woman can't just give birth once she hits 35 weeks...why kill the baby? And then why stop at birth? Why not kill children at any point up to the legal age of adulthood...so hey, I still can exercise my choice in regards to my son for the next 15 years? right? I can't imagine trying to live with that kind of moral coma.

    Posted by: Sydney M. at March 2, 2010 10:21 AM


    Had I been unmarried, or had the father been less supportive, or had my parents not made it clear that abortion is an act of violence against an innocent child, I don't know what may have happened.

    Despite all of the feminist cries of "We are women! Hear us roar!", the most popular television shows for women include such deceptive programs as Sex & the City, Desperate Housewives, and Friends. Single women are unhappy, shopping makes everything better, pregnancy should be avoided at all costs, abortion is a necessary evil (at worst), you won't be ready for kids until you have a house and a degree and 2 cars and are wealthy (man optional). You might have a baby, but let's face it, you're not really as competent as the women on the small screen, and even they mess things up terribly.... etc etc etc.

    Socially, we are lied to. We are told we can never be good enough. We can never be the parents we want to be, so when those children come, and we're not good enough, we're being irresponsible if we keep them.

    Not to mention what single pregnant women are led to believe: that no one will want them with a kid, that no man worth anything wants their baggage, that adoption is too difficult...

    Besides which, I am constantly fighting against the misunderstanding that babies won't get adopted.

    The lies and deceptions are staggering!

    Posted by: MaryRose at March 2, 2010 4:27 PM

    On a slightly unrelated note, 24 years ago today, my parents welcomed their first daughter into this world. I got a lovely phone call telling me it was the first best day in their lives; love my dad! :-)

    This is my birthday gift from my hubby:


    Posted by: MaryRose at March 2, 2010 10:08 PM

    Sorry for the double-post... my internet's buggy today

    Posted by: MaryRose at March 2, 2010 10:14 PM

    MaryRose - Happy (belated) Birthday!

    Posted by: Chris Arsenault at March 3, 2010 8:25 AM

    Excellent comment above. Thank you!

    Happy birthday to you and I love your new hoodie! :)

    I love that so many that post here are younger(than me!!)and so amazingly articulate on the sanctity of life!! It makes me feel so hopeful!

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 3, 2010 8:59 AM

    Chris & Carla,

    Thanks! XD

    I get so fuming about the so-called women's liberation movement, I could go on all day! But then, I'm just a stay at home mom with no career and no degree. I've sold out to what I'm told is my husband's oppressive rule. ;)

    Posted by: MaryRose at March 3, 2010 2:54 PM

    Keli Hu:

    Do you understand how so-called emergency contraception works?

    If the woman has not yet ovulated, it suppresses ovulation. (At least, that is the plan; I don't know if it's been proven 100% effective at this).

    If the woman has already ovulated (or, presumably, if the first mechanism fails), the drug works by thinning the uterine lining. This significantly reduces the chance of the growing blastocyst implanting in the womb. Not implanting means that the blastocyst dies. Thus, the drug causes the death of an unborn child. (This is also not 100% effective, as children have been born after the use of emergency contraception).

    Emergency contraception therefore can kill a growing human being.

    As a woman who has lost very wanted children at 10 days old, I find the assertion that it is okay to kill children at 5-10 days offensive in the extreme. The assertion that children of this age have no rights is also an assertion that my children who died at that age have no rights.

    By the way, I do have a degree, and it was a waste of money, and I shouldn't have bothered. I love my job as a stay-at-home mom, and it's what I always truly wanted. I did end up not having children until I was financially ready, and married, and we had a house. I very much wish it could have been sooner, and if I could trade all that and have had another child, if that meant I was still living in a moldy basement apartment with 3 kids, I would do it in a heartbeat. (Really, though, worst case scenario we'd be living with my in-laws.)

    Posted by: ycw at March 6, 2010 5:04 AM

    This whole discussion is ridiculous. Situations like this don't happen. No woman who's been going through a pregnancy decides to have an abortion at the very last minute just because she doesn't want to have the baby.
    In very rare cases, emergency situations happen late in a pregnancy, and abortions are sometimes necessary.
    The vast majority of abortions are in the first trimeseter.
    The whole story about Obama voting to allow infants born live in botched abortions is a crock.
    This never happened. He has never advocated infanticide.Lies,lies and nothing but lies.
    And please stop portraying doctors who perform late-term abortions as sadistic killers and torturerers. This is not only highly misleading but idiotic.
    They use anesthetics in these extremely rare procedures and are in no way cruel or sadistic.
    What a crock !
    I'm sick of the way you anti-choicers are always distorting the facts and using wildly exaggerated
    and gruesome language to make abortion sound like some sadistic ritualand portray abortionists as greedy murderers.

    Posted by: Robert Berger at March 6, 2010 9:57 AM

    Robert Berger...found the crock. Here you go.


    The "emergency situation" you talk about is normally that the parents discover that their child has DS or Spina Bifida or some other "defect". Are you advocating the killing of disabled people Robert?

    If the mother's life is in danger and the pregnancy must be terminated by early delivery that is does NOT mean the CHILD must be terminated. Sometimes babies must be delivered early to save mom. Nothing immoral about that. Usually the babies live and are okay. Sometimes the babies die, but their deaths weren't intentional and malevolent.

    Posted by: Sydney M. at March 6, 2010 10:36 AM

    Robert Berger--you don't think this is sadistic?


    Please, I hope you're brave enough to read the article and then click on the link to the baby's picture. Since you don't think its sadistic you shouldn't be disturbed at all!

    You seriously have mental issues if you don't think abortion is sadistic. You probably think Jeffrey Dahmer was a nice young man too, right?

    Posted by: Sydney M. at March 6, 2010 10:44 AM


    An emergency c-section is safer than an abortion, and much quicker. Some time ago there was material from an abortion clinic posted here that indicated a late abortion takes 3 days. An emergency c-section takes 30 minutes.

    Why kill the baby rather than giving him or her a chance?

    Posted by: ycw at March 6, 2010 1:49 PM