JivinJ's Life Links 7-29-08

web grab.jpgby JivinJ

  • Denny Burke highlights a recent exchange on the Albert Mohler Radio Program between guest host Russell Moore and Tony Campolo on the issue of abortion reduction vs. abortion elimination. Robert George was also a guest on the program.

    [JLS note: I'm so glad Denny and JivinJ spotted this. I received an email about this radio show but couldn't locate the source. Tony Campolo is a Democrat evangelical pastor. On this show he proposed a tax-and-spend strategy to reduce abortion by up to 50%, he thought. My email friend reported: "The moderator made a brilliant comparison. He asked if this strategy was similar to someone leading a group of white supremecists to reduce the number of lynchings of the slaves. Campolo became enraged at this. Truth hurts."]...

  • The Fresno Bee has a long article on Janet Rivera, a comatose woman whose feeding tube has been reinserted after a court appointed legal guardian had it removed:

    While Hadden says financial considerations have played no role in whether to keep her on life support, her family contends Rivera might not be in this situation if she had more money or better health-care coverage. Rivera's medical bills are being paid by Medi-Cal, the state-federal insurance program for low-income families.

  • There's a piece in the Toronto Star on Geeta Shroff and what she claims are human embryonic stem cell treatments.

    jolie in vitro.jpg

  • The Telegraph is reporting that US Weekly has claimed the twin children born to Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie were created by in-vitro fertilization.

    While I have no clue if this tabloid's claim is true or not, if it is true, I wonder if there were any embryos who were not implanted and then frozen and if there are frozen embryos, what Pitt and Jolie plan on doing with those embryos.

    Pitt has been an outspoken advocate of embryonic stem cell research, including working to help pass CA's Proposition 71 in 2004. He was even on the Today Show promoting it.

  • Comments:

    Thanks for the report on Wallis! Not surprised by his tantrum either.

    Posted by: sarah flashing at July 29, 2008 8:04 AM

    The posts here recently are becoming more and more of the TMZ of the abortion debate. What's next, pro life oriented horoscopes?

    Perez Hilton would be proud.

    Posted by: Amanda at July 29, 2008 9:45 AM

    Well Amanda at least it's still pro-life oriented.

    As for horoscopes I'm a cancer:
    "This is one of the most emotional of all signs but at the same time one of the most protective of those they love. When a cancer allows you to become close personally with them, you will meet one of the most kind and caring people of the Zodiac. Make them mad and you will meet one of the most sensitive and formidable."

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 10:56 AM

    That's what happens when you're really more concerned with policing peoples' sexual habits than actually saving babies, Amanda. I'm no longer surprised by anything that comes from the "pro-life" camp at this point.
    And I happen to be an Aquarian. :D

    Posted by: xalisae at July 29, 2008 11:01 AM

    "A problem in this little love nest though is that Cancers sometimes tend to be cruel with their words. When their lover uses the same words back at the Cancer, they truly take it to heart and donít like the situation at all."

    Wow was that scarily accurate or what?

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 11:04 AM

    "Idealism is the main theme of an Aquarian lifestyle. They are optimistic and honest. The most loyal of friends will come in the Aquarian if you are lucky enough to make them a friend. These people donít give people the chance to get too close to them too easily. Their need for independence keeps others at arms length because Aquarians donít like changing their lives and they know they will have to in order to let others into them."

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 11:08 AM

    Jess, I'm a cancer too. My mom likes to throw it up into my face that I'm *too* emotional. In fact her statement about my daughter's birthday was "OH NO, NOT ANOTHER CANCER!" Thanks mom. lol.

    Posted by: lauren at July 29, 2008 11:08 AM

    X - haha...indeed. Over at the Pro-Life group on Facebook, two pro lifers are arguing in favor of eliminating abortion AND welfare by sterilizing males in childhood and only permitting couples which meet certain criteria to reproduce, while claiming that this is not Eugenics, because no specific type of person is being intentionally eliminated. *headdesk*

    Oh, and I'm a virgo. =)

    Posted by: Amanda at July 29, 2008 11:10 AM

    Also, for the Hollywood In-Vitro.

    Why oh why do the Hollywood types insist on pretending that having set after set after set of faternal twins is totally normal. I mean, seriously, every Hollywood starlette over the age of 30 magically has twins..hmmm..I wonder why? *head desk*

    Posted by: lauren at July 29, 2008 11:13 AM

    Jess, I'm a Sagittarius. But I was born really late so I was supposed to be a Scorpio. I figure if I ever show signs of multiple personality disorder, that will be my excuse.

    Posted by: Alexandra at July 29, 2008 11:17 AM

    "Over at the Pro-Life group on Facebook, two pro lifers are arguing in favor of eliminating abortion AND welfare by sterilizing males in childhood and only permitting couples which meet certain criteria to reproduce, while claiming that this is not Eugenics, because no specific type of person is being intentionally eliminated."

    Wow... I mean... wow...apparently we've got odd ideas being thrown around on the PL side too, ehh Amanda?

    Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 29, 2008 11:17 AM

    Which group Amanda? Name the Facebook group.

    Posted by: Patricia at July 29, 2008 11:19 AM

    I'm a Leo-

    Leo is the fifth Sign of the Zodiac. These folks are impossible to miss, since they love being center stage. Making an impression is Job One for Leos, and when you consider their personal magnetism, you see the job is quite easy. Leos are an ambitious lot, and their strength of purpose allows them to accomplish a great deal. The fact that these folks are also creative makes their endeavors fun for them and everyone else. It's quite common to see a Leo on stage or in Hollywood, since these folks never shy away from the limelight. They are also supremely talented and have a flair for the dramatic. Warmth and enthusiasm seems to seep from every Leo pore, making these folks a pleasure to be around. They do love pleasure!
    It's the Lion which symbolizes Leos, and the king (or queen) of the jungle is a most appropriate mascot, since these folks consider themselves the rulers of their universe (and the Zodiac at that). Like Lions, Leos tend to be dignified and strong, and it is this sense of their power which allows them to get things done. A Leo on your team is a good thing, since Lions are eager to see their projects through to completion. Putting these folks at the helm is a good thing, too, since the Leo-born are natural leaders. They may ruffle a few feathers along the way, however, since they can also be overbearing and somewhat autocratic. This may be in keeping with the Fixed Quality assigned to this Sign -- Lions are indeed opinionated and set in their ways. That said, they are well organized, idealistic and have a knack for inspiring others.

    Posted by: prettyinpink at July 29, 2008 11:20 AM

    "Virgoans are hard working and practical. They will stand no nonsense and deal sensibly with problems. These personalities will most likely realize their full potential. They are talkative and donít mind a good argument because they can communicate their ideas. Virgoans have a penchant for details."
    That's totally you Amanda, lol : )
    Lauren you got off easy, my Mom would always chase me around saying "You're a crab! A crab!" : )

    Oh and I think I read about that on SAWRTC. And sterilizing children? Who gave him the right to decide who should have children?

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 11:22 AM

    Patricia - just "Pro Life"

    "Patrick Gustie (Berkeley) replied to Whitney's post
    14 hours ago
    To force society to deal with the irresponsibility of a woman is reason enough to take away her supposed "right to reproduce."

    "Post #181
    1 reply
    Adam Pugh (Stanford) replied to your post
    12 minutes ago
    We're mixing the practical and the moral aspects of this discussion. I think they should be dealt with separately.
    With regard to the practical aspects of the surgery -- if we can't do it safely, we shouldn't do it. My desire to do it is predicated on the notion that it can be made a routine procedure.
    With regard to the moral aspects -- I really do think society has every right to tell you that you can't have children."

    Posted by: Amanda at July 29, 2008 11:27 AM

    Here's the site I got my info from:

    That guy from the pro-life group also said every woman who had an abortion should be sterilized so they couldn't abort again. So many women abort then go on to have other children (they don't abort). Or regret aborting.

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 11:29 AM

    I've heard that "you should have to have a license to have children" line coming from *all* sides. It's really pretty disturbing.

    Posted by: lauren at July 29, 2008 11:30 AM

    HA! All of Adams posts just mysteriously vanished. Someone either reported him, or a moderator deleted them all.

    If you're in the group though, you can see most of what he said quoted in the responses.

    Posted by: Amanda at July 29, 2008 11:30 AM

    Hm Amanda and pro-choicers are the Nazis?

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 11:31 AM

    Hm, here's Sagittarius from that site:

    This freedom-loving individual is jovial and good-humored. Sometimes they can even be practical jokers. They need to consider that the fun they get out of the practical joke though is sometimes not as funny as thought when it affects the one whom the joke is being played.

    Sagittarians are honest and hardworking but they need a good challenge to keep them interested. Intelligence is something they value in others because they are generally loaded with it themselves. Playing checkers and then thinking of the beginnings of mankind is something that suits their philosophical tastes. And Sagg people sometimes like change for change sake. They love open spaces and need this in their office or need to work outdoors. Sagg people cannot stand to be closed in. These people are not detail-oriented but they need challenge to keep them from becoming bored.

    Career paths for them might be found in publishing, the law, teaching or religion.

    Ever the optimist, Sagg people see hope in everything they do. This trait can also make them a little careless because they believe the best will always befall them.

    In relationships, they need to be with someone who doesn't confine them. Their independent spirits can't accept any restrictions. They are great sexual partners and look for people with intelligence in which to have a relationship. A partner who isn't superficial and has marked intelligence turns them on. They don't need a lot of money and would rather read or travel.

    Posted by: Alexandra at July 29, 2008 11:35 AM

    Like I said, Jess, I've heard the exact same arguments coming from the pro-choice side. Appparantly though, the pro-choicers don't exactly have a monopoly on eugenic thought!

    Posted by: lauren at July 29, 2008 11:36 AM

    Well Lauren I think we could all benefit from getting more information and experience in raising children. We give little girls dolls so they can learn how to take care of an infant, we should give little boys dolls so they can learn how to take care of a baby too. If my cousins new baby is a boy I'm going to buy him a baby doll.

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 11:36 AM

    LOL - Jess - horoscopes can be eerily accurate sometimes.

    The BF is an Aquarius too, X. What does the site you're reading say about them?

    Also, Jess, and Lauren - Indeed. Plenty of nutters to go around on both sides, and anyone who says otehrwise is selling something. Thats the funny thing about comparing anything you don't like to Nazis. It comes back to bite you when you end up with nutcases on your own side (as there always are), which is why its better to just avoid that comparison all together, besides the fact that its become such a cliche anyway.

    Posted by: Amanda at July 29, 2008 11:39 AM

    I'm for passive eugenics Lauren. If you're stupid enough to jump in front of a train on a dare you really got what's coming to you : (

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 11:40 AM

    They are proposing doing evil to POSSIBLY prevent a greater evil, which is a moral philosophy known as proportionalsim. But of course, once you accept proportionalsim, you can argue certain instances of when abortion is the lesser of two evils because proportionalsim is based on the conscience of the individual. So their philosophy opens the floodgates to the acceptance of any type of behaviour imaginable.

    Also, I assume most of them are Christians, so you could make them aware of Romans 3:8 where St. Paul condems doing evil so that good may come of it. In fact, they aren't proposing doing evil that good may come of it, they are proposing evil in order that evil may possibly be avoided. It's just an all around bad idea.

    Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 29, 2008 11:42 AM

    Here's you're compatibility Amanda:
    "Watch the sparks begin to fly when you team up two Aquarians together! Now you have a pair of two like-minded individuals who can literally sit up and talk all night long! These people are true humanitarians in every sense of the word."

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 11:43 AM

    Awwww. All true. =)

    Thanks Jess!

    Posted by: Amanda at July 29, 2008 12:00 PM

    Don't thank me Amanda, thank the stars!
    *sits back and waits to get banned*

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 12:03 PM

    Bobby 11:42, agreed. That's just nuts.

    Also, back to the topic at hand (and no one needs to know, nor do they CARE, what my astrological sign is), Tony Campolo is an environmentalist.


    (An environmentalist friend who is not a Christian decided to send me the above article link to lecture me on how I should be just like her. Strange, as I've never sent her any articles on why she should be pro-life...)

    Let me clarify that I'm not against conservation. Being irresponsible is what it is, and we are a wasteful people.

    I find it strange that Campolo says this at the top of his article: "God specifically penciled out the shape of each of the millions of flowers on Earth, blended the watercolors and matched the leaves to the petals. He decided which varieties should grow in the various climates, how they should group themselves on the edge of a hill in early spring, and how they should lay a carpet across a meadow. He added trees and shrubs and brushed in hundreds of varieties of grasses. He strategically placed waterfalls, rivers and underground springs to bubble over the rocks and provide sustenance to the delicate plants.

    And that is just the beginning.

    Yet it is curious how many Christians do not seem to care about being good stewards of God’s creation. "

    I guess unborn children were NOT created by God, nor are they part of God's creation, Mr. Campolo?? How's about we only give a half-hearted (50%) effort at conservation, Mr. Campolo? Would you be satisfied with that?

    I didn't think so.

    Posted by: Kel at July 29, 2008 12:05 PM

    I'm a Virgo/Libra "cusp".

    Posted by: Mary at July 29, 2008 12:14 PM

    I care about you Kel.
    I think everyone (born, unborn, liberal, conservative) will benefit from a cleaner environment.

    Wow Mary how did you pull that off?

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 12:27 PM

    "I care about you Kel.
    I think everyone (born, unborn, liberal, conservative) will benefit from a cleaner environment."

    Of course they will. If they are allowed to live.

    Posted by: Kel at July 29, 2008 12:30 PM

    Hmmm...just a thought, for all the Pro-Choice folks believing in all this horoscope hoopla...

    You mean to tell me that the "star alignment" controls who you are and are in no way able to resist those urges/design for your life (depending on what the star-alignment was)?

    What ever happened to CHOICE? Aren't you being FORCED, in this instance, to conform to a certain idea?

    Posted by: RSD at July 29, 2008 12:30 PM

    It's just something fun RSD. I have heard though that being born during different seasons can have an effect on your personality, something like since there's a lack of sunlight during the winter and people tend to be more depressed then if you're born during the winter you will be a more somber or pessimistic person. A large number of factors influence your personality though.

    Posted by: Jess at July 29, 2008 12:37 PM

    oh for Gods sake RSD, way to take it about 9 million times more seriously than anyone here is.

    Posted by: Amanda at July 29, 2008 12:38 PM

    Who said we believe in it? Clearly my horoscope was nothing but lies, because it said I hate being closed in, when really I love nothing more than a cozy nook in a small house.

    Also it called me smart. Which we all know is a lie! :P

    Posted by: Alexandra at July 29, 2008 12:39 PM

    it was just a thought, ladies...

    Posted by: RSD at July 29, 2008 12:48 PM


    I used to be into horoscopes. Let me just say that if you abandon yourself to the universe and live as if nature was your God, then yes, you are influenced by things like the star placements.

    If you really want to be free, you place your well being in something far greater. Something that actually cares about you. You know, the Guy that created those stars and placed them just so.

    While it can be fun to look into horoscopes, keep in mind that there is truth there. The question is, where is that truth coming from and do you really want to invite that "power" into your lives?

    Posted by: mk at July 29, 2008 1:03 PM

    I think that we should be environementally responsible as Christians, I even worked for masspirg for a season. (In a past life, lol!)

    However, even though I was one of them, I think the crazy environmentalists are being way to dogmatic and turning people away from their cause.

    You know what helped us recycle more? Having the city provide a recycling bin as large as our trash bin. Being told that we were evil for having the trash bin in the first place wouldn't have helped.

    I do everything I can to reduce my environmental impact, but I don't berate someone with an SUV.

    I think we can all agree that we should try to work to perserve our planet, but not at the cost of personal freedoms and an overreaching government.

    Posted by: lauren at July 29, 2008 1:07 PM


    I was born September 20 so according to one book I read that makes me a "cusp" I'm on the edge of both signs. I always thought I was a plain old run of the mill Virgo :)

    Posted by: Mary at July 29, 2008 1:21 PM

    I fully agree, MK...why stop at the creation/ creature when you can know the Creator.

    Posted by: RSD at July 29, 2008 1:29 PM

    mk and lauren -- good points! Not that you need my approval but I always enjoy reading your opinions :)

    Posted by: Eileen at July 29, 2008 1:35 PM

    Oh, and I always learn good things from Bobby too!

    Posted by: Eileen at July 29, 2008 1:38 PM

    Actually there are a number of people I could include in that but I have to run...

    Posted by: Eileen at July 29, 2008 1:39 PM

    Thanks Eileen, I enjoy your posts as well!

    Posted by: lauren at July 29, 2008 2:12 PM

    Cancer. Aries rising. Moon in Leo.

    Posted by: Sally at July 29, 2008 4:42 PM

    LOL, speaking of Masspirg...

    I live in Austin now, and we're the hotseat of hippydippiness (I say with all love).

    Anyways, someone just came to my door talking about e-waste.

    I'll admit it isn't something I think much about, but when the tv's go to digital, we're going to have *alot* of tv's ending up in landfills.

    Now the question remains as to if it appropriate to inact laws that force manufactures to provide consumers with recylcing options. I'm honestly a bit on the fence with this, but I told the guy that I'd take his information and look at it and decide if it was something that I'd like to support.

    What do y'all think? Should the goverment pressure corporations to do what they should be doing anyways or is it too much governement interference?

    Posted by: lauren at July 29, 2008 4:47 PM


    There was a news blurb on this the other day...recycling electronics is a win-win. Not only are most of the parts recyclable or reusable, they can be used to refurbish other electronics, even to donate to people/countries that would be quite happy with an old TV or computer. Also, electronic trash is big, clunky, and dangerous - NOT something we need more of in our landfills.

    I think if more people spread the word about it, consumers could pressure companies in to doing the right thing, but if not, I think positive reinforcement works better than punishment - like most "green" efforts, they could be rewarded, with a tax break or free advertising. There are more creative ways of getting things done than "if you dont do this ill sue/fine/jail you!!"

    Posted by: Amanda at July 29, 2008 6:14 PM

    I'm a Capricorn w/ Taurus rising and my moon in Cancer.

    So I'm an ambitious, pessimistic, emotional, beeyotch.

    I think that sums me up quite well.

    Posted by: Rae at July 29, 2008 7:20 PM

    Lauren, I'm a member of MOpirg!!

    Posted by: prettyinpink at July 29, 2008 9:43 PM

    I'm a Capricorn w/ Taurus rising and my moon in Cancer.

    Rae, cool.

    I'm Pisces with moon in Taurus. 'Surf 'N Turf.'

    Libra rising.

    You're Earth/Water, I'm Water/Earth.

    My quick take is that your Cancer moon has a long way to go before it's satisfied.

    On your Ascendant - what is commonly said to be the first impression that people get of you - yeah, you're stubborn. : )

    Posted by: Doug at July 30, 2008 11:00 PM

    Doug, you're a dork.

    And you know what? That's a-okay. :D

    I guess I am pretty stubborn, but about really stupid things...like the fact that I refuse to eat fruit, evar.

    Pisces eh? I'd say it suits you. Pisces are odd folks. :-p My dad's an Aquarius and if he were rich he'd be called "eccentric", but he's not rich (in the words of Eddie Izzard he's "not rich but comfortable"), so he's just "weird".

    Posted by: Rae at July 30, 2008 11:05 PM

    RAE! I be an Aquarius, too. Gee, am I just WEIRD?

    Posted by: Lyssie at July 31, 2008 10:04 AM

    @Lyssie: Yes, you are weird. And that's a GOOD thing. :D

    I can't look at the word "Aquarius" the same way again because I get the "Age of Aquarius" song stuck in my head, and not the original version from "Hair" but the version with Steve Carrel at the end of the "40 Year Old Virgin".

    Posted by: Rae at July 31, 2008 12:24 PM