Jivin J's Life Links 7-9-10

web grab.jpgby JivinJ, host of the blog, JivinJehoshaphat

  • Wesley Smith on a case where an Australian woman is traveling to Thailand for a sex-selection IVF procedure to ensure she has a girl:
  • Increasingly, IVF is not about treating infertility, but about reducing reproduction to a crass consumer activity akin to choosing a breed of dog or model of flat screen television. This is objectification pure and simple. When we believe we are entitled not just to a child but to the kind of child we want, it strikes a body blow against unconditional love - because by definition, it isn't.


  • Traveling abortionist George Klopfer (pictured left) has contacted the FBI after receiving a death threat at his unpublished home phone number. Klopfer believes the individual who threatened him discovered his information after he filed a lawsuit against the Fort Wayne-Allen County Dept. of Health. Klopfer is fighting a local ordinance which requires non-local physicians who don't have admitting privileges to "provide contact information to area emergency rooms and the local health department." See related video here.

  • An Abortion Gang member thinks the best argument against abortion restrictions and in favor of taxpayer funding for abortion is that the less restrictions and the more government funding women get for abortions, the sooner they'll have them:
  • This is where the "trust women" phrase comes into play. You, me, the government, everybody, needs to trust that women will do the right thing. Women who want abortions will get one done as soon as possible. Unfortunately, in the US, a woman will often have to pay for an abortion out of pocket. This means she has to spend time raising money, which can lead to her being later in the pregnancy at the time of the procedure.

    In Canada, where most abortions are covered by health insurance, many women are able to have an abortion as soon as possible, since they don't have to spend time raising money towards the cost of the procedure. This means that more Canadian women have abortions in the 1st trimester. That is the best argument for why abortions should be publicly funded.

    Besides not understanding what a good argument is, Not Guilty also might want to check out U.S. abortion stats which show that some states with numerous abortion restrictions have low percentages of late-term abortions while states with zero or limited abortion restrictions (and the government funding of abortion) have higher percentages of late-term abortions.

    [Klopfer photo via The Journal Gazette]


    You ever think that women in states with tons of restrictions go to states without them?

    I went from Ohio to Pennsylvania. Ohio tried to put me through weeks of hoop-jumping with 24 hour waits and back-to-back visits to two different clinics. These "pro-life" laws were useless to stop me, because I finally gave up, called a clinic in Pittsburgh on Monday, and got an appointment for Wednesday.

    I was also so desperate I drove there with a suspended license, which would have meant 10 days in jail if I got caught.

    Why? The usual reasons: my parents would kill me, I had no money, the father was nothing but trouble, and I KNEW I'd have no support from anyone.

    I'm not making a case for or against abortion by saying this. But your firm belief that restrictions stop women is not true. We know something like 95% of Tiller's patients were from out of state.

    That's the only reason I doubt banning abortion is going to stop anyone. First, if Roe v. Wade is overturned, some states will ban it and some will allow it. Women will just go elsewhere. If they're really desperate, they'll just order drugs over the Internet or try to do it themselves. You have to address root causes first.

    Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 9, 2010 3:09 PM

    And what would be the "root causes", Ashley?

    Posted by: RSD at July 9, 2010 3:20 PM

    At least among middle-class people, I felt there was a huge--HUGE--stigma against college-age girls "ruining their lives" to have a baby. I knew it was looked upon very negatively. I honestly wish our society had a more pro-life and pro-motherhood mentality.

    As for poor women, we already know the problems they face: domestic violence, poor housing, lack of child care, lack of sex education, etc.

    Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 9, 2010 3:48 PM

    The root causes? A permissive society that tells women that having irresponsible sex and killing unborn children is a.ok. Banning abortion won't stop anyone? Legalizing it created an abortion tidal wave. Before that it was a few hundred a year, now it's thousands a day. It will soon be nearly impossible to count, because the women taking poisonous drugs to self-abort are not all pregnant. They are taking life-threatening drugs on the chance they MIGHT be pregnant.

    The root cause? Writers of the late 19th and early 20th century who decried building a family as 'female enslavement.' The root cause? Kinseys atrocious sex study calling convicted felons and rapists 'normal'. The root cause? Hugh Hefner deliberately marketing casual sex to the average consumer. The root cause? Feminazi's who think a man shouldn't talk to her chest but it's ok for droves of young women to enter the sex and porn industry and volunteer to be objectified. The root cause? Mentally ill racists like Margaret Sanger who canoodle with KKK members to promote abortions of 'unwanted human refuse.'

    Posted by: ninek at July 9, 2010 3:55 PM

    More anti-sex hysteria. Let's get a round of applause for ninek.

    We actually don't know how many abortions there were back in the day, since in general, you don't report doing something illegal. We also didn't poll people anonymously like we do now.

    Also, the abortion rate in South America is one of the highest in the world, and abortion is banned on almost the entire continent.


    Excuse me guys, but I'm out for the night, which might include some illicit sex.

    Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 9, 2010 4:05 PM

    Yes, because illicit sex has served you so well in the past.

    Enjoy your evening.

    Posted by: Kelli Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 4:10 PM

    One more thing from the article I posted:

    "Ramiro Molina, a doctor and the director of the Centre for Reproductive Medicine and Public Health at the University of Chile, led a 10-year study in three impoverished communities on the outskirts of Santiago. Clinicians provided direct medical attention for women at high risk of pregnancy. A social worker also called them regularly and worked around their schedules. They had access to all birth control methods, education, counseling and follow-up visits. The abortion rate dropped 82 percent in some communities after this intense grassroots intervention.

    Public health advocates cite the study as proof that abortion rates can be lowered through improved availability, delivery and quality of contraception and the establishment of post-abortion contraceptive counseling in hospitals."

    Birth control works. Birth control works. Birth control works.

    Unless your goal is trying to force people to stop having sex, rather than just preventing abortions. The anti-sex wing of the pro-life movement won't accept any actual research on birth control, though.

    And no, sex did not cause my problems. Unprotected sex with the wrong guy did. It's serving me quite well these days, thanks!


    Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 9, 2010 4:28 PM

    First of all, ninek, great post.

    Secondly, how is our society supposed to magically produce a pro-life mentality when we're such busy beavers, funding abortion with taxpayer dollars, pushing for over the counter abortion pills, promoting condoms to 11-year-olds and the like?

    As for poor women, I hope you're not going to tell me they don't know how to get some condoms at the corner drug store and actually USE them even if their casual sex partners say "I don't like how they feeeeel *whine*".

    In my city, the folks in the poorest of neighborhoods are the ones always seem to have their houses ridiculously decked out with lights at Christmas (I sure couldn't afford those power bills) and always shoot off the most fireworks on the 4th. You expect me to believe they're on LINK and WIC (getting all their groceries paid for) and yet they can't afford a $7 box of condoms? Clearly that isn't the problem here.

    If men would stay with their women (or *gasp* marry them, even!) they'd have a better chance at having a household income above the poverty line and they'd be more likely to find child care if they still needed it. The problem is that once you begin to depend on the government for everything, you no longer depend on yourself to get out there and provide for your family (once again, if the fathers stuck around, they might actually be able TO provide). And fyi, I say all these things as a person who grew up in a low income, single parent household with little to no child support from an absent father.

    You're right in that there is a stigma attached to women (of all ages) "ruining their lives" by having children. Why do you think this is? It's not just college women who hear it. It's also women who have more than their allotted 2.5 children in a society where kids are only welcomed when it's a "good time in my career/marriage/life." And if you have more than your allotted amount of kids (even if you're MARRIED) you get looks and comments from people such as "don't you know how to use birth control?" Don't tell me contraception hasn't played a HUGE role in this. Society tells us we should be able to have sex with whomever, whenever we want, but then if we actually happen to do what our bodies were designed to do from time to time (reproduce), we are looked upon as failures and rejects. Open your eyes.

    P.S.- Domestic violence is most DEFINITELY not a "poor women's" problem. It can happen to absolutely anyone, without question.

    Posted by: Kelli Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 4:35 PM

    Ashley can mock all she wants but the fact is this: if you are picking a sexual partner with whom you realize you might get pregnant, you will be very careful about who he is. If you are picking a sexual partner for the feel-good-now and assuming that birth control will protect you, then you are a lot less selective and choosy. Then when the birth control "fails" it's the baby's fault and for that she or he must be executed.

    If you think pro-life is all about hating sex, you are the one who is delusional. Sex is how humans make more humans. It's good that people enjoy it because if they didn't, we'd have never lived long enough to invent fire or the wheel. But just because it feels good, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do when you can't handle the responsibility of a child.

    Posted by: ninek at July 9, 2010 4:46 PM

    Birth control works. Birth control works. Birth control works.

    Not for everyone, obviously. Many women who abort were using birth control when they got pregnant. And I know a lot of women who were married, using the Pill, and still got pregnant. Several times. Fertility's sometimes a wild card.

    But I'm not anti- non-hormonal contraception if it's between a married couple.

    And no, sex did not cause my problems. Unprotected sex with the wrong guy did.

    So, you were unaware of birth control methods? You were too impoverished to buy condoms? What?
    And I think it's funny that you can't see how illicit sex actually caused your problem. (You won't admit it because you want to have sex and everything that goes along with that, consequence-free. That's what birth control has done for your mentality and that of so many others.)

    Had you been married to a man (who I would assume would not be the "wrong guy") would you have aborted your/his child? In other words, had you NOT had illicit sex in the first place, would this have been likely to happen to you? Would you have been put in such a situation with a "stigma" attached?

    Sex outside of marriage causes all these things. Take it out of its proper context and everything goes haywire. You have broken families from adultery (which is more likely now, thanks to being able to hide the evidence with the Pill!), you have STDs, you have abortion. It's an entire mentality and twisted way of looking at life. Wow, YAY, that must make it all worth it! ;)

    So, before you say we're "anti-sex," think about it. Think about where the "sex anytime, anywhere" mentality has brought us as a society, and be honest with yourself about it.

    Posted by: Kelli Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 4:56 PM

    Posted by: Kelli at July 9, 2010 4:56 PM

    A close family member of mine got pregnant *three* times using birth control. The first two, she was using both hormonal BC *and* a barrier method, and the second was with the hormonal BC patch. I do think that people who choose to have sex should be very careful about not falling into the trap of believing that any form of BC (aside from sterilization) is one hundred percent, and that we do need to keep in mind the possibility of conceiving a child even while using BC. I think it would serve people better to choose their sexual partner(s) based on whether or not they would want to raise a child with that person.

    Posted by: army_wife at July 9, 2010 5:06 PM

    Great comments Kelli.

    "And no, sex did not cause my problems. Unprotected sex with the wrong guy did."

    It's not about finding the right person. It's about being the right person.

    Posted by: Praxedes at July 9, 2010 5:16 PM

    Off topic and definitely NOT implying that this is the case of anyone who has commented on this thread...
    Are there stats on how many unplanned/aborted pregnancies are a result of one or both partners being inebriated at the time of intercourse? All the sex ed in the world isn't going to help these people 100% of the time. Do we educate our children about the dangers and potential consequences of alcohol abuse as well as we should?

    Posted by: Janet at July 9, 2010 5:55 PM

    "Are there stats on how many unplanned/aborted pregnancies are a result of one or both partners being inebriated at the time of intercourse?"

    My mother said I was conceived after a New Years Eve party. So,....

    Seriously,though, I agree with your point Janet. People make bad decisions while drinking. Especially (but not only) young people.

    Posted by: Hal at July 9, 2010 6:16 PM

    Thanks everyone for being so supportive.

    When my friends and I first became sexually active (back in the olden days), we knew about the birds and the bees. We didn't need a lot of money to have knowledge. It doesn't cost a dime for a poor family to tell their kids how kids are made. Our national deficit is shocking, and yet some people don't think it's enough. Our current administration wants to spend money we don't have on more sexual indoctrination and abortion both at home and abroad. This isn't anti-sex hysteria. This is plain old common sense.

    And I so agree with Kelli, domestic abuse is an equal opportunity blight that doesn't discriminate based on income.

    Posted by: ninek at July 9, 2010 6:47 PM

    Regardless of how you try to spin it, the point of my original comment was: women determined to get abortions will get them.

    I knew I was pregnant at 4 weeks and immediately decided on abortion. We can talk forever about my choice and whether it was right, but I was determined to do it for various reasons that made me feel desperate. The state of Ohio put every possible roadblock in front of me. For starters, there are very few clinics. Second, they make you come in for two separate appointments with the same doctor within 24 hours. For me, that meant trying to go to two different clinics that are 50 minutes apart.

    I assume the intent of these laws is to force the woman to finally break down, give up, and give birth. I didn't. I finally just drove myself with a suspended license almost 4 hours to another state for an abortion--WEEKS later than I wanted to. I'm just telling you, no law is going to stop a woman who desperately wants an abortion. You can sit and pat yourself on the back for pushing "pro-life" laws. All you're doing is sending women to other states, or to attempt home abortions. (I tried that too.)

    You have to A) prevent unplanned pregnancies (with contraception) and B) change people's hearts and minds about abortion.

    And yes, if I had been married to this particular guy, I still would have gotten the abortion. 20% of women who have abortions are married.

    Do I regret my abortion? No. It's possible to feel sad about something without wishing you'd never done it. Imagine a woman finally ending a terrible marriage to a bad guy after 20 years. She hates her husband, but she loves her 3 kids with him. Should she regret marrying him? If she does, then she regrets her kids, too, since they wouldn't exist otherwise. Her kids wouldn't be here if she hadn't married him, even if she believes the marriage was bad for her and she feels sad about it.

    So no, I don't regret it. If I did, that would be the same as saying I'm not happy with my boyfriend and my life now. I wish I'd never been pregnant in the first place, but I don't regret ending it.

    Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 9, 2010 8:55 PM

    You have to A) prevent unplanned pregnancies (with contraception) and B) change people's hearts and minds about abortion.

    So, you, a grown woman, decided to have unprotected sex. With a man to whom you weren't married, and a man you knew you shouldn't have been with in the first place. What stopped you from using birth control?

    And yes, if I had been married to this particular guy, I still would have gotten the abortion. 20% of women who have abortions are married.

    That isn't what I asked. I asked if you were married to the right man (a man who wasn't just good for a roll in the hay), would you have had the abortion?

    See, my point is, you were with a guy whom you admit was no good, but he was good enough for sex. Not good enough to marry, and obviously you think your child by him wasn't worth anything either, and yet you still had unprotected sex with him. And you admit he was SO awful that you would have aborted his child even IF you'd been married to him. You, who says "birth control works. Birth control works. Birth control works." I guess it's more likely to work if you USE it. So, what were you doing with this guy in the first place?

    Sex really clouds things when it's not in its proper context. It binds us to that person emotionally, whether we want to believe it or not. Is that why you continued to sleep with him even though he was a horrible person? I'm asking seriously here.

    So no, I don't regret it. If I did, that would be the same as saying I'm not happy with my boyfriend and my life now. I wish I'd never been pregnant in the first place, but I don't regret ending it.
    Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 9, 2010 8:55 PM

    The truth is, Ashley, you have no idea what your life would have been like had you not aborted your child. You're saying, in essence, "I like my cool new boyfriend and my awesome life since that baby's dead and the problem is solved." You could have had that elusive "bluebird of happiness" some other way. I for one am very sorry your child died because you felt the need to pursue happiness at the expense of the life of another human being. Even though you're not.

    Coming out of an abusive marriage is not the same thing. If you were abused, then the joyful thing from the marriage would be that 3 precious lives came out of that union (and I personally believe women who have been through this can turn it around to become empowered and to help others in the same situation). Life resulted. No, her regret would not have been marrying the guy, but the fact that the guy chose to do what he did and chose not to change.

    In this case, Ashley, you became an abuser yourself. One day, I hope you will acknowledge the death of your child. Right now, you're not ready. Right now, you're coming to a pro-life website quite regularly, claiming how you *don't* regret your choice, and how horrible all we pro-lifers are (especially the Catholic ones). But *we* didn't end your child's life, Ashley. It isn't our fault. It isn't our fault that you chose the wrong guy and then added to that disturbing time in your life by ending the life of a totally innocent, little human being.

    You can't wish your pregnancy and abortion away. But maybe one day, you'll end up more like Carla, who accepts responsibility for what she did and acknowledges the inherent value of her child's life, even if she didn't see it at the time. I sincerely hope for that.

    Posted by: Kel (Kelli) at July 9, 2010 9:51 PM

    "Should she regret marrying him? If she does, then she regrets her kids, too, since they wouldn't exist otherwise."

    I greatly regret marrying my first husband. I regret many of the decisions that led to me marrying my first husband. No, my children would not exist had I not been with him but I can still regret my past poor decisions without regretting the wonderful people Christ blessed me with in spite of my and my ex-husband's sins and shortcomings.

    Should the prisoner regret murdering his neighbor? If he does regret the murder, then he regrets the college degree he obtained while in prison. What the heck Ashley?

    I'm sorry you don't regret choosing to abort your child. A human died because of the poor choices made by his/her parents. Since you don't regret aborting your offspring, I'll regret it for you. ):


    Posted by: Praxedes at July 9, 2010 10:10 PM

    If abortion had been illegal I never would have had one. Making abortion legal somehow has made it seem ok. What ninek said.

    You know where to find me if you need to talk.

    Thank you! 20 years after my abortion and I am grateful to be where I am! Telling others my story!

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 10:21 PM

    "If abortion had been illegal I never would have had one."

    That's a very powerful statement. I'm betting about 50% of post-abortive women would say the same thing.

    Posted by: Janet at July 9, 2010 11:03 PM

    So many of my Operation Outcry friends agree with me. They would never have gotten one either.

    It is complete hogwash to think that if abortion were illegal women would be using coat hangers and bleeding in the streets. That whole back alley bs. Desperate women do desperate things and use self harm as a means to escape. Other women would seek alternatives KNOWING abortion is not an option.

    Illegal. Unthinkable.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 11:13 PM

    I will rephrase
    Abortion should be illegal AND unthinkable.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 9, 2010 11:14 PM

    This is similar to a thread in the Malta Times' comments shortly after Kmiec was sent over there. (re abortion being "unthinkable" as carla said). Abortion is illegal in Malta except to save the mother's life (at least for now).

    Somebody asked the rhetorical question about whether a woman should be punished with a baby, a ruined life, poverty, etc. if she had been raped.

    One of the best responses was from a woman who said (I'm paraphrasing not quoting because it's late here): No, of course not. She should get the medical, financial,and practical help she needs to recover from the rape - at societal expense. But the baby shouldn't be killed either. The unborn child and the mother are both distinctly human.

    She was pretty much saying the same thing as carla.

    Posted by: sabella at July 10, 2010 4:08 AM

    "Abortion should be illegal AND unthinkable."

    Good luck with that second part. Why is the illegal abortion rate sky-high in countries where it's illegal? Look up the stats on illegal abortion in South America.

    Banning abortion will make America abortion-free as much as banning drugs has made America drug-free. We know how well that's worked out. People risk a decade in jail to make a hundred bucks selling crack. We have the strictest drug laws and the worst drug-addiction problem in the West.

    If you're desperate for something, you'll get it. Usually with much more deadly consequences, as we've seen with drugs. But people will still do it. I have ZERO doubt that if abortion had been totally illegal, I would have still found a way to do it.

    Coincidentally, grassroots anti-drug campaigns--convincing people not to try them--have worked, but throwing people in jail hasn't. I take the same approach to preventing abortion.

    Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 10, 2010 9:43 AM

    "If you're desperate for something, you'll get it. Usually with much more deadly consequences, as we've seen with drugs."

    Last I heard, drugs were still illegal.

    Posted by: Praxedes at July 10, 2010 9:49 AM

    "Last I heard, drugs were still illegal."

    Fantastic observation! (Sarcastic clap.) That was the whole point of my comment.

    Making drugs illegal has done nothing to stop it. We have a much bigger drug problem than countries that either allow drug use or look the other way, like Holland.

    Illegal abortion rates worldwide prove that banning abortion does almost nothing to prevent it. Example: Brazil. Look it up.

    Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 10, 2010 10:04 AM

    Incidentally, countries with very liberal abortion laws (Scandinavia, for example) and liberal, pro-woman social attitudes--generous maternity leave, sex ed, a pro-contraception mentality--have the lowest rates in the world.

    Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 10, 2010 10:22 AM


    There are just too many variables involved to make such generalizations.

    * *

    Why don't all the liberal pro-aborts move to Europe if it's such a perfect place to live?

    (I hear that in Holland they have no laws for picking up dog-poo on city sidewalks. Every day is an adventure. Doesn't that sound grand?)

    Posted by: Janet at July 10, 2010 11:20 AM

    Making drugs illegal has done nothing to stop it.

    I guarantee you that if drugs were all made legal tomorrow, we'd have many, many, MANY more children and adults addicted to them. Because to most people's minds, "legal" equates to "moral." I've had this discussion with libertarians who think drugs should be legalized, and they even admit this to be true.

    Making abortion legal has done the same thing. One of my sidewalk counselor friends says a lot of the girls going into the clinics where she ministers say to her "it's legal, so there's nothing wrong with it!"

    Making murder illegal has done nothing to stop it, either. Or rape. And yet, people still manage to commit those heinous acts.

    Abortion is the taking of an innocent human life as well. People inherently know this, which is why they put forth so much faulty rhetoric and terminology to mask the reality. "pro-choice." "products of conception." But because it's legal, that allows them to "pass the buck" of responsibility for their own actions.

    Posted by: Kel at July 10, 2010 11:42 AM

    There are four children, my husband and I that regard abortion as unthinkable. That's a couple more for our side. :P

    Good luck with trying to reduce abortions by promoting promiscuity and abortions.

    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 10, 2010 1:37 PM

    Good luck with trying to reduce abortions by promoting promiscuity and abortions.
    Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at July 10, 2010 1:37 PM


    Do you think if murder were legal, there would be more of it? Duh.

    There were not 1.5 million abortions a day in the US before abortion was legalized. Now, there are.

    Posted by: Kel at July 10, 2010 1:42 PM

    Uh, okay. Where's your evidence? I have facts behind me, you don't. Go look up the (illegal) abortion rates in Chile and Peru and compare it to the rates in Scandanavia.

    Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 10, 2010 2:06 PM

    I thought your argument was no one can actually determine the illegal abortion rates because of a problem with reporting. No? You have me confused.

    If you want to compare apples to apples, maybe illegal abortion rates here in the US compared to illegal abortion rates in those countries?

    Did the number of abortions in the US increase or decrease after abortion was legalized?

    Posted by: Kel at July 10, 2010 2:11 PM

    Kelli @ 2:11,
    I mentioned the reporting variables. Sorry if my post was confusing.

    Posted by: Janet at July 10, 2010 3:31 PM

    Thanks, Janet!! :) Totally missed that. I read the bottom of your post and accidentally overlooked the top half. :D

    Posted by: Kel at July 10, 2010 5:24 PM

    What a crock. Just ran into a 7-8 month pregnant young woman (about 23 years old) the other day, she said to me "my OB put in an IUD told me it was foolproof B/C, then she left town, she does not practice here anymore and here I am pregnant, the IUD did not work and she is gone. Thanks."

    As a healthcare worker I cannot tell you how many co-workers, docs (even OBs), nurses, married couples, etc. ended up pregnant using B/C. Most unintended pregnancies (53%) occurred among women who were using birth control. (Alan Guttmacher Institute. Facts in Brief: Contraceptive Use, 2000) Also condom use cannot guarantee protection against ANY STD. Studies have shown that while condoms may reduce the risk of some STDs, there is NOT sufficient evidence to show that condoms provide protection against some of the most common STDS, including HPV AND Herpes, which can be spread by skin-to-skin contact on areas not covered by a condom" (National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Workshop Summary: Scientific Evidence on Condom Effectiveness for STD Prevention U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services 2001). A woman or girl can get pregnant only several days out of a month, but STDs can be transmitted every day and do not require sexual intercourse. Any sexual activity outside of a committed monogamous relationship (usually marriage) puts a person at risk for STDs and unwed pregnancy (the single greatest contributor to child poverty). No worries PP will take care of you when B/C fails. They will guarantee you a dead baby, just handover $500, but they cannot guarantee that they can cure you of any viral STDs (Fact: There is no medical cure for viral STDs). Passing out more pills, more patches, more shots, more IUDS, more condoms, treating more STDs, more Valtrex for Herpes, burning off more genital warts, and killing more unborn babies. Cha-ching!
    More money for PP. Doesn't solve a darn thing. More emotional heartbreak, more walking wounded. Condoms don't protect the heart. Like putting a band-aid on a cancer.

    Posted by: Prolifer L at July 11, 2010 8:25 PM

    Actually Ashley, the mandated waiting periods and required counseling (informed consent) is standard and ethical medical practice for any elective medical surgery, not just abortion, so no they aren't just singling out abortion patients.

    Posted by: Rachael C. at July 11, 2010 8:32 PM

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