Jivin J's Life Links 8-31-09

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  • Ross Douthat compares Senator Kennedy with his sister Eunice, who also recently passed away:

    What the siblings shared - in addition to the grace, rare among Kennedys, of a ripe old age and a peaceful death - was a passionate liberalism and an abiding Roman Catholic faith. These 2 commitments were intertwined: Ted Kennedy's tireless efforts on issues like health care, education and immigration were explicitly rooted in Catholic social teaching, and so was his sister's lifelong labor on behalf of the physically and mentally impaired.

    What separated them was abortion....

  • I wish Frank Schaeffer would please explain why he's so "appalled" by abortion but thinks it should be legal? What's so appalling about abortion?

    Schaeffer also notes his opinion that Roe should be overturned so decisions about the legality of abortion could be handed back to state legislatures.

  • Amanda Marcotte provides probably the worst "argument" for why government funds wouldn't be used to pay for abortions under current versions of health care reform legislation: Because she said so....

    There's 2 separate claims and 1 implication that this hysterical wingnut screaming at a town hall is making, and all are wrong. 1st, that the health care bill will include funding for abortion. This is wrong, as I've already stated. The 2nd claim is that abortion is not health care. This is also wrong. The implication is therefore that we shouldn't fund abortions under universal health care, and this is also wrong.

    She seems to believe that because she said something previously, that it is therefore automatically true and she doesn't need to provide any evidence to refute FactCheck.org's analysis or Time's analysis.

  • Abortionist LeRoy Carhart gave Action3News a tour of his abortion facility.
  • The Kansas City Star has an article about Scott Roeder, abortionist George Tiller's killer, and his religious background. He's a Messianic Jew.


  • Comments:


    I noticed the outside of the "clinic" was barely displayed. That mural of a car is exactly what I expect to find on my doctor's clinic facade.
    Come on, Carhart didn't have plenty of time before the "tour" to clean things up. He was giving the "tour" and could certainly control what is and isn't seen.
    Does anyone ask Carhart why he doesn't move his clinic to a somewhat nicer location? Why he has people without the proper credentials working for him?
    It would be nice to have a news media that truly does its job.

    Posted by: Mary at August 31, 2009 4:36 PM


    "These 2 commitments [liberalism and Catholicism] were intertwined." How the heck do people get away with saying such dumb things? It mention the good part about liberalism that is in harmony with Catholic teaching, but then completely ignore that which is in direct contradiction with Catholic teaching. Not that there is anything wrong with being a Democrat and Catholic, but you can't support killing people.

    Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at August 31, 2009 5:03 PM


    Not that there is anything wrong with being a Democrat and Catholic, but you can't support killing people.
    Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at August 31, 2009 5:03 PM


    Ummm, what about those CINAs who support the death penalty?

    Posted by: Hal at August 31, 2009 6:16 PM


    Sorry, killing innocents. Supporting the death penalty is perfectly in line with Catholic teaching.

    Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at August 31, 2009 6:20 PM


    Hal,

    The Catholic Church recognizes the value of the death penalty in certain circumstances.

    Posted by: MaryRose at August 31, 2009 6:25 PM


    "These 2 commitments [liberalism and Catholicism] were intertwined." How the heck do people get away with saying such dumb things? It mention the good part about liberalism that is in harmony with Catholic teaching, but then completely ignore that which is in direct contradiction with Catholic teaching. Not that there is anything wrong with being a Democrat and Catholic, but you can't support killing people.

    Bobby, I think that the rest of the article focused pretty much exclusively on Ted Kennedy's support of abortion, versus Eunice's stance. The last paragraphs:

    It’s worth pondering how the politics of abortion might have been different had Ted shared even some of his sister’s qualms about the practice. One could imagine a world in which America’s leading liberal Catholic had found a way to make liberalism less absolutist on the issue, and a world where a man who became famous for reaching across the aisle had reached across, even occasionally, in search of compromise on the country’s most divisive issue.

    That was not to be. And it’s entirely fitting, given his record, that Kennedy’s immediate legacy is a draft of health-care legislation that pursues an eminently Catholic goal — expanding access to medical care — through a system that seems likely, in its present design, to subsidize abortion.

    But his sister would have written it a different way.

    Douthat didn't explicitly say that Ted Kennedy's stance on abortion was against the church, but he did say that Eunice sided with the church on the issue of abortion, and that Ted "took a different path" -- "like many other Catholic liberals."

    Posted by: Alexandra at August 31, 2009 6:48 PM


    The word that came to mind when viewing this video of Carhart's deathatorium was " Auschwitz".

    Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at August 31, 2009 10:27 PM


    Why didn't the interview Carhart by his generator? That would've been a great photo op!

    Made my heart feel heavy to see the death room...to think of all the precious little babies torn apart in that room....horrible.

    Posted by: Sydney M at September 1, 2009 8:56 AM


    Carhart,
    I don't believe your 'clinic' looks like that all the time....Nice clean up job. But I'm still not buying into your bull-crap

    Posted by: Ak Krystal at September 1, 2009 9:34 AM



    Sorry, killing innocents. Supporting the death penalty is perfectly in line with Catholic teaching.
    Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at August 31, 2009 6:20 PM

    Hal,
    The Catholic Church recognizes the value of the death penalty in certain circumstances.
    Posted by: MaryRose at August 31, 2009 6:25 PM


    Really? You guys sound like cafeteria Catholics. What did John Paul II say:

    "I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary," he said. "Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform."

    Here's the official Church position, note the last part:

    "Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

    "If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

    "Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."

    Posted by: Hal at September 1, 2009 12:33 PM


    Are Catholics generally against the death penalty? I mean, if there was an opportunity to vote for/against it's legality, which would Catholics advocate?

    I'm genuinely curious. My Catholic (but not devout) husband is very uncomfortable with the death penalty, and he indicates that his Cathlic upbringing is the reason. I bug him endlessly to explain the church's position on various issues such as that one (this is Alabama and there are very few Catholics, so I'm quite ignorant about their beliefs), but he hates talking about it. So, does the church have a definite position, or is it flexible?

    Posted by: Janette at September 1, 2009 1:40 PM


    Hal, Janette,

    I noted that the Catholic Church doesn't forbid the death penalty in all instances. That said, I and most Catholics I know would vote to illegalize the death penalty if given the opportunity. In our society, as Hal quoted, it is an unnecessary recourse. Unnecessary and, as we employ it, ineffective.

    I wasn't saying anything other than that it's a fallacy to believe the Catholic Church opposes the death penalty in all instances. Yes, our modern world is able to handle crime far more effectively. That said, the Catholic Church's doctrine is universal and ageless. It isn't created to fit the current needs of society, nor is it created for certain countries.

    Posted by: MaryRose at September 1, 2009 6:41 PM


    MaryRose,

    That makes sense. Thanks :)

    I've always been a little torn on the death penalty myself, but not for religious reasons. On one hand, there are some people that definitely deserve the harshest punishment possible for their crimes. On the other hand, the idea that a government has the ability to take the life of a citizen, even justly, makes me uneasy.

    Posted by: Janette at September 2, 2009 5:46 PM


    Janette,

    State that employ the death penalty actually see a rise in those crimes. Criminals are afraid of life, not death.

    Posted by: MaryRose at September 2, 2009 6:32 PM


    Possibly the most hotly debated disagreed-upon political/ethical issue for the last twenty years--or at least for the past few days. I would certainly be interested to know whether or not Dr. Carhart's clinic always looks like that or if it was a last-minute cleanup.
    Regardless of anything else, many people are highly suspicious of Operation Rescue and any/all other pro-life groups ever since the murder of Dr. George Tiller. And certainly, that was a horrible deed--completely in contrast to what those groups claim to defend. Life.
    There is an interesting summary video on the Carhart controversy on newsy.com. It's short, well-made and certainly worth watching:

    http://www.newsy.com/videos/the_next_dr_george_tiller_under_threat

    Posted by: econcurious88 at September 8, 2009 12:17 PM