Now WHAS11 reported yesterday the place is starting to look like a war zone every Saturday morning, when abortions are committed.
I've never seen anything like this. I think the added mix of 40 Days for Lifers right now is adding to the chaos - in a good way, obviously. I can't imagine why any mom would proceed through this mire to abort her baby.
Pro-abort deathscort Drew Peterson complained about "violence," but the only violence I saw was someone from his side shoving someone from our side. And, of course, he ignores the ultimate violence committed against preborn children that he is enabling.
Deathscorts are criminals, plain and simple.
They enable the killing of hundreds, even thousands, of human beings! What they do is morally obscene, horrific, unspeakable, criminal, evil. And I am just getting started.
If you are a deathscort, you are responsible for the death of every child of every mother you escort in there.
Let us have no more talk from the deathscorts about "violence".Posted by: Joe at March 3, 2010 1:24 PM
It's a Spiritual Battle for souls in the physical realm...
I agree, I don't see any of the pro-lifers doing any pushing..I did see two instances of deathscorts doing it , though...Posted by: RSD at March 3, 2010 1:35 PM
I didn't see anything that could really be called violence on camera. Ridiculous of them to keep harping on it.
Other than that, it was a good story, fair to pro-lifers -- it even called us "pro-lifers"!Posted by: Lori Pieper at March 3, 2010 1:46 PM
It's "always been violent" there? That sounds like a lot of baloney. They try to play up pro-lifers as radical crazies, but the only violence or threats I've ever seen outside abortion facilities was from friends or family members of the women going in. Definitely not from us.Posted by: Courtney at March 3, 2010 2:01 PM
Hahaha. His name's Drew Peterson. I guess our Central Illinois publicity-stunt-waiting-to-happen isn't the only Drew Peterson who is slightly out of touch with reality and enjoys defending murder.Posted by: Alex at March 3, 2010 3:16 PM
I guess the other infamous Peterson, Scott, just missed his called. He'd have made a wonderful deathscort.Posted by: xalisae at March 3, 2010 3:39 PM
The news casters said there was "violence" but did not cite any specific instances. Why?Posted by: hippie at March 3, 2010 3:39 PM
*missed his calling.Posted by: xalisae at March 3, 2010 3:44 PM
God bless all pro-life counselors who put up with angry pro-choicers to save women and babies from abortion. It takes so much patience!!! And listening to obscenities from pro-choicers all day. Yikes.
The older pro-choice gentleman says we're "forcing" our views on these women. Sir, How does one do that exactly? By talking to them forcefully? When it comes down to making a decision, whether you like it or not, the woman makes her own CHOICE. She doesn't care if you or any other escort agrees with her choice, or not.Posted by: Janet at March 3, 2010 4:07 PM
I would probably recommend that the sidewalk counselors wear vests that have a different color. I would not want to be confused with the "deathscorts" only because it stirs up their hostility and they can accuse the counselors of deception.
I noticed how the sound was cranked up on the praying to make it sound extremely loud and disruptive. The traffic was probably MUCH louder.
There was only one man on site(the clinic escort) who spoke over and over about all the "violence" outside the clinic, but the journalists never brought up any cases on police record.
Typical coverage of abortion mills.Posted by: MEL at March 3, 2010 4:20 PM
The real violence is what goes on inside of these murder mills.Posted by: Bill Stevens at March 3, 2010 4:35 PM
The journalista at the end of the report re-assured her viewing audience that 'this kind of conflict does not occur at most abortion clinics'.
Another example of either lazy and/or dishonest journalism.
As the number of abortionists declines the killing centers consolidate to meet the changing market conditions.
They locate in communities where the demand will support their business.
As a result the pro-lifers are able to concentrate their efforts more effectively.
If anything I would have to conclude that the 'pro-life' presence at the killing centers has increased.
yor bro kenPosted by: kbhvac at March 3, 2010 4:55 PM
"As the number of abortionists declines the killing centers consolidate to meet the changing market conditions."
Pro-lifers will have to get more creative to reach women seeking abortions as the abortion mills locate themselves in large buildings. I've recently started leaving pro-life pamphlets on the bulletin boards that are just inside the grocery store's entrance. I'm sure there are many other places we could think of to do the same.
"I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore, be wise as serpents, and as harmless as doves." Matthew 10:16
Not a very comforting verse for christians. Wolves tear sheep apart. From a pro-life perspective, we seem to get maliciously shredded often enough by the pro-choice crowd and the media.
The video showed the wolf-like qualities of the clinic escorts, and also the harmlessness of the people praying and silently protesting. I was impressed with the tenacity of the one sidewalk counselor who walked with the escorts, trying to give the mothers options. When questioned, she very respectfully said that she believed the escorts were acting out of compassion- she just disagreed on what that meant.
When we behave in a harmless way and are armed with both the scientific and medical facts about abortion, along with the Word of God (as wise as serpents), we provide an amazing testimony to the world.Posted by: Heather M at March 3, 2010 5:08 PM
So women are prevented from having a safe, legal procedure because of the street theater provided by the anti-choice jihadists. So what do they do when they are afraid to walk into a clinic? They go home and get RU46 or worse, resort to illegal "abortion mills." Oh, praise, Jesus. I'm a deathscort - along with Episcopalian priests and Jewish rabbis. Not only do we brave the inane screams of the anti-choice street theater (yer killing yer babye and yer a whore) but we run the risk of being victims of "justifiable homicide." And please don't tell me that your people are "counselors" because I'm a professionally, accredited counselor and these low life jokers are nothing of the sort. In my state, you need to have a certain academic credential to be a counselor. And part of counseling is a milieu which is non judgemental and private. Your histrionic screechers don't meet those standards. My best moment was when a poor, teenage, Hispanic woman, whom I escorted said "muchas gracias" to me after I imposed my slight body between her and the screamers. (Right, she killed her baybeeee!!!) And BTW, we have drills about what to do if the "pro-life" folks (domestic terrorists) pull out their weapons. And another BTW, a well respected member of our Jewish community, who is a "deathscort," was called a Christ killer and a baby killer.Posted by: Artemis at March 3, 2010 5:43 PM
"pull out their weapons"
By that I would assume that you mean pamphlets explaining the Truth about abortion. A very powerful weapon indeed.
Satan took scripture out of context when he tempted Jesus. Today, he still does that through false prophets.
God is a God of life. How can anyone who claims to love and serve God say that it is okay to violently dismember a child that He just created?
Posted by: Heather M at March 3, 2010 5:56 PM
"My best moment was when a poor, teenage, Hispanic woman,"
What is your point? That you saved the us from an hispanic baybeeee?
How about this hilarious comparison:
"And another BTW, a well respected member of our Jewish community, who is a "deathscort," was called a Christ killer and a baby killer."
Um, name calling vs. killing kids? So are prolife folks who had nothing to do with it supposed to be ashamed? It is ridiculously laughable. We accuse you of helping commit murder and your retort is that we are name callers? That's it? Lame.Posted by: hippie at March 3, 2010 6:00 PM
We accuse you of helping commit murder and your retort is that we are name callers? That's it? Lame.
Posted by: hippie at March 3, 2010 6:00 PM
In my state, it's not murder and for the forseeable future won't be despite your screaming. But when the Bible belt states criminalize abortion, we will welcome the women who need our services - unless you stop them, with guns, at your borders.
And BTW, the Jewish and liberal Protestant clergy don't think it's murder either. But nice to think that you're OK with a Jew being called a baby and Christ killer. That's why, in my state, your side has no credibility. In fact, they're seen as rather pathetic especially the old guys with the posters and the plastic fetus necklaces. But keep up the good work. One of the women whom you screamed at had to actually throw up before she entered the clinic. Nice work. Let's punish women. Again, that's why my state, founded on tolerance, is pro-choice. And now that our anti-choice governor is leaving, we'll be getting a pro-choice governor next year. Too bad, so sad.Posted by: Artemis at March 3, 2010 6:08 PM
And "hippie" - Christ killer, baby killer. In case you don't realize it, that's anti-Semitic. But then the Reform and Conservative Jewish community, overwhelmingly pro-choice, (based on the teachings of their rabbis) are used to the anti-Semitic undertones of the "pro-life" movement. But keep screaming at the Jews. It's all so retro.Posted by: Artemis at March 3, 2010 6:12 PM
Artemis, you commit a crime every time you "escort" a woman in to have her child killed. If you had an ounce of human decency and intelligence you would realize that.
"Episcopalian" "priests"? "Jewish" "rabbis"? People who support or participate in abortion crimes (prenatal homicide) are NOT Christians or Jews. To repeat, they are NOT Christians or Jews. Both Christianity and Judaism prohibit prenatal homicide under all or virtually all circumstances.
Those who claim to be "Christian" or "Jewish" while supporting killing the whole human race in the unborn stage (and this is exactly what they do support) are obscenely perverting and distorting the moral teaching of these great religions.
We must not allow advocates of the criminal destruction of human life to hijack Judaism and Christianity in the furtherance of their obscene anti-human agenda.Posted by: Joe at March 3, 2010 6:35 PM
SO many in this country allow themselves to be deceived due to ignorance. They spout off what the next guy says not even knowing if it is true or not. It is so frustrating. Get the TRUE FACTS. Then no one would need someone telling them the TRUTH. Babies are babies born or pre-born. That is science. TRUE science, not just someone spouting off "it's not a baby it is a fetus". What does fetus mean? Developing infant! I cannot believe (actually I can) that people STILL think that just because you give something or someone a title/name means that that is all they are. Fetus, baby, pre-born child, developing baby: it's all that same. Throwing fetus around doesn't make the baby less of a baby. My rant is over right now. Thank you for reading it. I am so fed-up.Posted by: kmann at March 3, 2010 6:37 PM
safe? Tell that to the family of that woman who died in New York. Or the woman who had to have a hysterectomy after her abortion (one such woman was in Lincoln, Nebraska. She LOST a lot of blood. She nearly died. She had to have an emergency hysterectomy following HER abortion). Safe? HA!
And those so called liberal "Christian pastors" will have to answer to GOD, the author of LIFE.
Posted by: LizFromNebraska
at March 3, 2010 7:29 PM
Instead of using language that suggests that pro-life protesters are violent, you should use facts.
In the video I saw a pro-choice clinic escort pushing down a pro-life protester. That's one example.
Show me some examples. Do the majority of these pro-life protesters really have guns? Do they scream "I'm going to kill you if you get an abortion"? Do they punch, push, or threaten people's lives and/or health? Merely raising one's voice (you'd call it yelling) to be heard is NOT violence.
Please, I would like to read the plethora of examples that you come up with.Posted by: segamon at March 3, 2010 8:36 PM
Better yet, Artemis. Get it on video!!Posted by: carla at March 3, 2010 8:54 PM
HA HA HA! I love it! I remember reading on a pro-choice website that the clinics DON'T necessarily want deathscorts showing up for this very reason...all the commotion makes the moms just keep on driving. They said something like "We know you want to help defend reproductive rights but your presence just incites the antis and scares the patients away"
love it love it love it!!!! My husband's cousin is in the hospital tonight having her second child (a girl!) and a lady from my church is also in labor with her fifth! The birth of children is such a beautiful time!Posted by: Sydney M. at March 3, 2010 9:03 PM
Artemis....I am a Christ-killer, okay? My sin put Christ on the cross. I KILLED CHRIST. I take full responsibility for my sin. I thank my Lord Jesus that He chose to forgive me and save me for all eternity. But I never forget that I am a Christ-killer.
And BTW, and BTW, and..and..and...oh never mind.Posted by: Sydney M. at March 3, 2010 9:08 PM
Illegal abortion mills? I thought those were eliminated by Roe v Wade.
Speaking of professionals, as a medical professional I can tell you that in no medical setting would untrained and unlicensed people EVER be permitted to administer drugs, handle or administer narcotics, assist in surgical procedures, supervise patients, and perform any kind of patient care.
If you had checked Tiller's website you would have found none of his staff had any kind of medical or nursing credentials. Heck, the staff didn't even know enough to call 911 when a septic Down syndrome patient walked in the clinic and collapsed. Family pets have exercised better judgment and saved their ownner's lives.Posted by: Mary at March 3, 2010 9:13 PM
Interesting the journalist looked pregnant. I know when I was pregnant abortion became so much more revolting to me. I felt my son kick and I just couldn't stand the anguish in my heart knowing other babies just like him were being ripped limb from limb inside their mothers.Posted by: Sydney M. at March 3, 2010 9:16 PM
"The older pro-choice gentleman says we're "forcing" our views on these women. Sir, How does one do that exactly? By talking to them forcefully? When it comes down to making a decision, whether you like it or not, the woman makes her own CHOICE. She doesn't care if you or any other escort agrees with her choice, or not."
Wait, I thought women were coerced into having an abortion. I am confused!! I was drilled in another post for the idea that a woman has a choice.....which is it, choice or coercion?Posted by: Jake at March 3, 2010 9:22 PM
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear on who I was addressing in my post. It was the gentleman in the video. Did you watch it?
Yes, tragically, some woman are coerced into aborting. Some women don't understand that there are other options besides killing her baby and that's where the pro-life counselors assist in the decision-making process. Pro-lifers and pro-choicers should be able to agree that without all the facts a woman can't make an informed choice, don't you agree? The gentleman in the video apparently doesn't agree.Posted by: Janet at March 3, 2010 9:41 PM
Did I understand you correctly? You're a deathscort and a professional counselor? Have you ever counseled a woman who regretted her abortion? How did you handle it?
"One of the women whom you screamed at had to actually throw up before she entered the clinic. Nice work. Let's punish women."
Did you happened to think that perhaps it was just her pregnancy that caused her to throw up?Posted by: Janet at March 3, 2010 9:48 PM
Artemis, in summary: "I'm going to bring up the lesser evil of a pro-lifer who yelled anti-Semetic remarks to distract everyone from the greater evil that I advocate for the killing of innocent human beings."Posted by: Marauder at March 3, 2010 9:56 PM
Exactly Janet. Sure...its the pro-lifers who made the woman throw up. Not the hormones from her pregnancy.
When I was pregnant I had trouble just brushing my teeth. I also had to plug my nose and do my grocery shopping in under 15 minutes or I would vomit from the different food smells. Just seeing or hearing the word "chicken" used to make me vomit. It was misery at the time but I chuckle over it now. Maybe it was your wretched perfume that made her puke, Artemis! Who knows? But just keep pointing the ridiculous finger of blame. Some counselor!Posted by: Sydney M. at March 3, 2010 9:57 PM
Praying for quick deliveries! How exciting!
Artemis, you claiming that pro-life activism is tantamount to anti-Semitics is a bunch of bull. You saying that Jewish people are pro-choice is also a bunch of bull. There are pro-life Jewish groups, such as Jews for Life and the Jewish Pro-Life Foundation.
Furthermore, the chief rabbis of Israel, those who are the top leaders of Judaism, recently stated that abortion is against Jewish teaching and delays the coming of the Messiah. Rabbis Yona Metzger and Shlomo Amar stated, "The vast majority of abortions are unnecessary and Halacha severely prohibits them."
The LifeNews story on this reported in December, "Rabbi Barry Freundel, a widely respected Jewish leader in the U.S., says, according to the Mishnah, a record of oral interpretations of the Hebrew Scriptures, abortion is only permitted when a woman is in 'hard travail' and her life is in danger.
"He said the instances where a pregnancy poses a serious threat to the mother are very rare -- so Jews should oppose most abortions."
The report also stated, "Last year, the oldest Orthodox Jewish Rabbinic organization in the country, the Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the U.S. and Canada, issued a historic declaration on voting and abortion. It said Jewish voters should not vote for candidates who support abortion, calling them 'antithetical' to Jewish values."
That report then linked to the report citing that statement. In THAT report, it stated at the bottom, "A Chasidic Rabbinic group, the Central Rabbinical Congress of U.S. and Canada issued a similar manifesto in March 1982. Similar declarations were issued by Rabbis in New York as recently as 2005."
Dr. Daniel Eisenberg, a leading Jewish medical ethicist, stated in an article he wrote entitled "Abortion in Jewish Law", "As a general rule, abortion in Judaism is permitted only if there is a direct threat to the life of the mother by carrying the fetus to term or through the act of childbirth."
Furthermore, if you read the Old Testament, including the Torah, it denounces the abortive and infanticidal sacrifices made in Gehenna. Leviticus 18:21 states, "You shall not give any of your seed to be consecrated to the idol Moloch, nor defile the name of your God. I am the Lord."
Leviticus 20:2 says, "Thus shall you say to the children of Israel: If any man of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that dwell in Israel, give of his seed to the idol Moloch, dying let him die. The people of the land shall stone him." When it says "seed" it refers to children, born and unborn.
Amos 1:13-15 says, "Thus says the Lord: For three crimes of the children of Ammon, and for four I will not convert him: because he has ripped up the women with child of Galaad to enlarge his border. And I will kindle a fire in the wall of Rabba: and it shall devour the houses thereof with shouting in the day of battle, and with a whirlwind in the day of trouble. And Melchom shall go into captivity, both he, and his princes together, says the Lord."
There are other passages in the Old Testament referring to this child sacrifice, how evil it is, and that the Jewish people are not to take part in it: Jeremiah 7:30-34; Ezekiel 16:20-21, 36-38; 20:31; 2 Kings 21:2-6; and Jeremiah 15:3-4.
Therefore, in Judaism, abortion is wrong unless it's to save the life of the mother. "Abortion on demand" is not promoted. It is considered one of the worst things that a person could do, except for in those rare instances of true life-threat to the mother.Posted by: Amy at March 4, 2010 12:21 AM
If the unborn are not human, no justification for elective abortion is necessary. But if the unborn are human, no justification for elective abortion is adequate. (Koukl, Precious Unborn Human Persons, p. 7)Posted by: Chris Arsenault at March 4, 2010 5:36 AM
Posted by: Amy at March 4, 2010 12:21 AM
The sources you cited, apart from the Old Testament, were Orthodox and Hassid. Reform and Conservative Jewish Talmudic tradition differs. That's why, again, the majority of American Jews (the majority of whom are Reform and Conservative) are pro-choice with their rabbis blessing.
"It is clear from all of this that the traditional authorities would be most lenient with abortions within the first forty days. After that time, there is a difference of opinion. Those who are within the broadest range of permissibility permit abortion at any time before birth, if there is serious danger to the health of the mother or child. Reform Judaism is in agreement with that liberal stance" But if you don't believe me, talk to a Reform rabbi.Posted by: Artemis at March 4, 2010 8:46 AM
Posted by: Sydney M. at March 3, 2010 9:57 PM
Sydney, Sydney, you do make assumptions, don't you? First, I don't wear perfume as I'm highly sensitive to aromas. Second, while there may be a variety of reasons that the woman entering the clinic vomited, walking through a gauntlet of screaming "counselors" could have been the stressor that pushed her system over the edge. And yes, I have counseled women who regretted their abortion. And I have counseled others who had absolutely no regret whatsoever and were moving on with their lives.Posted by: Artemis at March 4, 2010 8:54 AM
"without all the facts a woman can't make an informed choice, don't you agree? The gentleman in the video apparently doesn't agree.
Posted by: Janet at March 3, 2010 9:41 PM
So you assume that all women, who walk into abortion clinics, were not given all the facts and that they are making a misinformed decision? Really? And how is shoving prayer cards and factually incorrect "pro-life" information at a woman, entering the clinic, assisting a woman who, as a sentient being with free will, has already made a decision? Shouldn't medical decisions be made in a doctor's office and not while trying to run a gauntlet of screaming and rosary praying "counselors?" What other surgical procedure forces people to experience what woman do who enter clinics - many of whom are just their for pap smears, mammograms, perscription pick up, etc.Posted by: Artemis at March 4, 2010 9:05 AM
Artemis is just a troll and a very bad one. The new anti-life lie is that all pro-lifers are violent extremists. Which is blantantly ridiculous to anyone who has eyeballs and can do math. If you have eyeballs you can watch the videos of pro-life protests and clinic vigils and sidewalk counselors and see that the pro-lifers are not only not-violent, they oftentimes don't physically defend themselves when they could legally do so. And if you can do math you know that with a majority of Americans being pro-life, it's literally impossible for even a large minority of pro-lifers to be violent or extreme.
It's a lie, and a very bad, stupid one at that.Posted by: Keli Hu at March 4, 2010 9:09 AM
Posted by: Keli Hu at March 4, 2010 9:09 AM
Where did I say that anti-abortion clinic protestors are "violent extremists?" I think that their harassment of women who are getting a legal surgical procedure is intrusive and rude. (How would the Catholics, who make up the bulk of our protesters, like it if we did the same thing to folks going to mass?) I think that their "baby" paraphanalia and graphics are truly tacky to the point of being laughable. But while they're not extremists,(particularly the old ladies who chant their rosaries) they contribute to a climate of hatred that does lead to abortion doctor killing (justifiable homicide?). And call me a troll; but I'm just telling you about what us evil "baby killers" think. In any movement, it's important to know what the other side thinks. Right?Posted by: Artemis at March 4, 2010 9:19 AM
Where did I say that anti-abortion clinic protestors are "violent extremists?"
"So women are prevented from having a safe, legal procedure because of the street theater provided by the anti-choice jihadists. ... Not only do we brave the inane screams of the anti-choice street theater (yer killing yer babye and yer a whore) but we run the risk of being victims of 'justifiable homicide.' ... And BTW, we have drills about what to do if the 'pro-life' folks (domestic terrorists) pull out their weapons. And another BTW, a well respected member of our Jewish community, who is a 'deathscort,' was called a Christ killer and a baby killer."
Posted by: Artemis at March 3, 2010 5:43 PM
I'm sorry, that's accusing pro-lifers--all pro-lifers--of being violent and extreme. Like you and all your anti-life friends are trying to do. Yes. It is. I am preemptively calling you a liar if you try and say otherwise. If you meant to say something else...I honestly don't care because you said this. If it is what you meant, then freaking own it!
As far as knowing what the other side thinks, my Google-fu is in perfect working order, sugarpea, but thanks for the concern. It's unnecessary.
And you're a bad, unfunny troll.Posted by: Keli Hu at March 4, 2010 9:33 AM
In fact gay AIDS protesters did indeed invade a Catholic mass, disrupted the services, and tossed around condoms. Supposedly the CC's opposition to condoms caused the spread of AIDS, not the wanton promiscuity of the gay community.
To no one's surprise, this violation aroused little anger or concern in the MSM or liberal community. You will also notice that union violence, harassment, and disruption generates little outrage from the liberal community as well. In fact, they are the union's biggest supporters. Come to think of it, the unions are the Democrats' biggest supporters.
Sort of comes down to one dictum, "who's ox is being gored?". Right Artemis?Posted by: Mary at March 4, 2010 9:34 AM
Artemis says "How would they like it if we did the same thing to folks going to mass."
Well, if they were going into Mass to kill another person, you'd have every right to protest. They're not, of course.Posted by: Lauren at March 4, 2010 9:38 AM
So women are prevented from having a safe, legal procedure because of the street theater provided by the anti-choice jihadists.
we have drills about what to do if the "pro-life" folks (domestic terrorists) pull out their weapons.
Posted by: Artemis at March 3, 2010 5:43 PM
LOL, how ridiculous. Weapons like rosaries? Prayer? I'm Lutheran BTW, and a sidewalk counselor so NICE TRY, I don't buy it. When women have the TRUTH about their child's development shared with them, the response is, "I didn't know" and yes, the words blood clot, tissue, and cell mass are used inside the clinic. Ask Carla about the mis-informative video they showed her about her daughter's development.
The irony is that the presence of the deathscorts creates this environment. When there's no one else but prayer support and counselors, women and men listen, or not, and enter, or not, with or without the fact-filled material. I only raise my voice when a truck or bus is going by, or when the deathscorts are trying to drown me out. All the words I speak are about support and help available. I represent the 'other choice', ya know, LIFE? Deathscorts and their obnoxious behavior belie the "choice" facade because their tactics speak volumes: they only embrace ONE choice, otherwise women would be allowed to reach out and take the information. And yes, our deathscorts actually have stepped in the way and BLOCKED outreached arms (of clients) on several occasions, and thrice I've seen deathscorts rip material from the hands of people who took it.
It doesn't surprise me Artemis is a deathscort, though I'm curious what she's told women who regret "killing their baybees", get over it?
Deathscorts are the children of their father who was a murderer from the beginning.Posted by: klynn73 at March 4, 2010 9:42 AM
I made an assumption that you wear bad perfume, Artemis ,just like you made the assumption that pro-lifers carry weapons while protesting. Dumb to make assumptions, isn't it?
And yeah, the graphics are very laughable. HA HA HA...this is pretty hysterical right?
That picture almost made me die laughing (pun intended) If you think pictures of children who were tortured to death is funny then you are truly sick in the head. I guess you think pictures of children starving in Africa is a riot, right? Or pictures of anyone suffering makes you giggle huh? Cause you're just that angry and bitter and full of rage that you almost feel glee to know others suffer as much as you. I've met your type before.
You have no business being a counselor Artemis. You come across as bitter, mentally and emotionally disturbed and in need of some good counseling yourself. When you "counseled" women who regretted their abortions what words of wisdom did you offer "Hey, I killed my baby and it was great!" The venom and bitterness oozing from your posts is truly sad.Posted by: Sydney M. at March 4, 2010 9:43 AM
As an abortion clinic escort, I will always, ALWAYS do the best job I possibly can to make sure that you & your clan of anti-choice terrorists - yes, I used the word TERRORISTS - harasses me first before you ever harass the woman I'm protecting. Say whatever you want to me, do whatever you want. Spit on me, throw rocks at me, I will ALWAYS take it if it means getting that woman into the clinic safely for the abortion she so rightly deserves.
You should all be beyond ashamed of yourself.Posted by: Suburban Sweetheart at March 4, 2010 9:52 AM
See, Artemis? That's how you do it. Suburban Sweetheart is justifying her assistance in child-killing, but she's not mincing words about what she really thinks.
It's anti-life, but at least it's honest, which is more than can be said for you.Posted by: Keli Hu at March 4, 2010 9:59 AM
Suburban Sweetheart...you need to click on the link I posted above. It is the picture of a LEGALLY aborted baby. Congrats. That makes you proud? I work against the murder of children and I can never be ashamed of that.
As the point was made above, if you are all pro-CHOICE then why do you try to prevent women from talking to us pro-lifers and hearing our offer of help, and hearing the medically accurate information on fetal development? Shouldn't a woman have that information and then if she still CHOSE to have the abortion anyhow, so be it? You are pro-ABORTION and not pro-CHOICE at all.Posted by: Sydney M. at March 4, 2010 10:14 AM
"She so rightly deserves"? Hmm, that doesn't sound like someone who CARES ABOUT WOMEN. If you TRULY cared about women, you wouldn't be like the soldiers at the Nazi death camps who lied to the Jews who were told they were getting a shower and instead, got gassed.
Planned Parenthood LIES to women. They hate ultrasounds, hate big families, they HATE abstinence because when taught the right way, it means they LOSE customers. They hate when women change their minds and decide NOT to abort.
These women who have abortions are often scared or being coerced into their abortions. Being told they "can't raise a baby" or "can't go to school and have a baby" or "can forget having a career and a child". ALL LIES. They tell them its "just a blood clot" or "a piece of tissue" or even say it doesn't have a heart beat until like six months! ALL LIES.
Posted by: LizFromNebraska
at March 4, 2010 10:30 AM
You are living in glasshouses accusing pro-lifers of being violent in general. Besides the violent murders of unborn babies which your side is responsible for your side has also done plenty of violence not involving murder of the unborn as well:Posted by: Punisher at March 4, 2010 11:08 AM
'If the unborn are not human, no justification for elective abortion is necessary. But if the unborn are human, no justification for elective abortion is adequate. (Koukl, Precious Unborn Human Persons, p. 7)"
That reminds me of former Extreme and Van Halen lead singer Gary Cherone's poems on the issue of abortion to point out why it is indefensible:
What About the 98.6 Degree Angle?
Another Letter to Eddie Vedder
by Gary Cherone
The vast majority of people who support abortion
take that position with the firm conviction
that life does not begin at conception
That being said...
If one personally felt "terminating pregnancy is not an easy thing"
but was the right of the individual to make that "decision"
Is the life within the mother's womb a human person?
If the answer is no, it is not a human person
Why would one feel it "is not an easy thing" to do?
If the answer is yes, it is a human person
Why would one advocate "terminating" it?
If the answer is I don't know, if it is, or isn't a human person
How many more "decision(s)"
would one make in an uncertain "situation"?
If the unborn is not a human person
No justification for abortion is necessary
If the unborn is a human person
No justification for abortion is adequate.
Nearly all arguments for abortion
are based on the faulty premise
that the unborn are not fully human.
Copyright ©2001, Gary Cherone
Credit for source must be given to Libertarians for Life.
one of life's many choices
a home for pregnant women
P.O. Box 66879
Mar Vista, CA 90066
An Open Letter to Eddie Vedder
When is a woman not a woman?
Therein lies the only clear refutation of a woman’s rights.
A woman’s rights —
seems a mere tautology, a redundant catch phrase.
Are not rights self evident?
Intrinsic assumptions of the inalienable?
So, when is a woman not a woman,
a right not a right?
When she doesn’t exist.
When does a woman become a woman?
Is it when
her first ballot has been cast?
she graduates from her class?
Is it when
she makes a wish on her sweet sixteenth?
Would I be amiss if it were her first kiss?
Is it when
she’s diagnosed by the boy next door?
Or as ambiguous as the cutting of the cord?
Is it the time
it takes to travel the distance through the canal?
she’s kicking and becomes viable?
Is it when
her sex is discovered by a sonogram?
Or after eight weeks when
the changes in her body will be mainly in dimension?
Is it when
her brain waves are detected after 40 days?
Or is it around three weeks when
her primitive heart beats?
Can there be only one true line of demarcation?
One finite measurable point in time that differentiates
life from non-life?
Womanhood from non-womanhood?
Rights from no right?
Is it the moment of conception —
that point when all of the above is set in motion?
That precise moment when
"a separate human individual, with her own genetic code,
needing only food, water, and oxygen, comes into existence"?
It is at that point,
"like the infant, the child, the adolescent,
that the conceptus is a being who is becoming,
not a becoming striving toward being.
She is not a potential life,
she is a life with great potential".
She is not the mother,
she is an other —
a somebody other than the mother.
however beautiful, however complex when fully grown,
begins life as a single cell, a zygote —
that stage in human development through which we all pass.
She fulfills "the four criteria necessary to all life —
metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction.
Her genetic makeup is established at conception,
determining to a great extent
her own individual, physical characteristics":
her eyes, her hair, her skin color, bone structure, her gender.
So let us not be confused,
"she did not come from a zygote — she once was a zygote.
She did not come from an embryo, she once was an embryo.
She did not come from a fetus, she once was a fetus".
She did not come from a little girl — she once was a little girl.
When is a woman not a woman?
The answer is absolute, non-negotiable.
To argue against would be to ignore the innate,
the fact of the matter.
The answer can never be a matter of opinion or choice.
This is not a metaphysical contention.
This is biology 101.
The answer is scientifically self-evident —
as inherent as the inalienable.
the ability to pursue happiness
is contingent upon liberty —
and her freedom is solely dependent upon
the mother of all human rights...
the right of life.
SS, you're a real Trooper! Your post just confirms to me what I've long suspected: that many deathscorts suffer from a Hero Complex (too bad that's not a CAPE they give you!)
I invite you, please, to record the spitting/rock throwing/harassing you're experiencing (or was that just willing to experience?) and share it here. Just like in the above video, in real life (versus your fantasies) it's the deathscorts doing the assaulting (yup, that's what it is when she's shoved by the embittered Feminazi)-- notice Kelly countered with a polite, "Excuse me".
Our focus is not YOU! YOU! YOU! so get over yourself already. I am talking to the mother, the father, and/or the grandparents, as the case may be. Ashamed? I will never be ashamed to be a voice for the defenseless.
What you defend and are complicit in: www.abortionno.orgPosted by: klynn73 at March 4, 2010 11:20 AM
"So women are prevented from having a safe, legal procedure because of the street theater provided by the anti-choice jihadists."
That statement is pathetic on different levels. Most pro-lifers are peaceful, for one.
Secondly, if anything your side is made of jihadists- against the right of unborn babies to live.
Thirdly, your argument of how anti-choice we are don't wash.
You yourself are opposed to choices that you see as infringing on rights of others. In this case, you oppose our choice to protest on behalf of the unborn.
So by your logic, you are anti-choice jihadist yourself since you believe we should not be allowed to make choice to protest what we see is great injustice.
In actuality, nobody believes in law legalizing choice in of itself.
Not all choices are created equal.
Choices to commit murder, rape, kidnapping, assault, battery, abuse of wife and kids, etc., etc., are prohibited by law. And yes, they do involve folks making choices with what they want to do their their own bodies- at the expense of otehrs, such as using one's hand to fire a gun at someone's head to murder, for example.
The slogan pro-choice is obfuscation, period.
How about just say what that choice is. Pro-choice to get rid of one's own unborn child.
Does not sound so good, after all does it?
No different than if a slaveowner in the 1800s say those who abolish his choice to own slaves are anti-choicers.Posted by: Punisher at March 4, 2010 11:20 AM
What interesting initials. Check out the history of Nazi Germany.
Rock throwing? Good heavens I hope you call the police the instant this starts. According to a former police officer I know, this is assault with a deadly weapon. You could get lots of people arrested. You've been hit by rocks and go back for more? Impressive. You must have the hide of an elephant.
My husband's cousin had her baby girl early early this morning. Hopefully mom and baby girl will go home to join dad and big brother in a day or two.
Have no word yet on the mother from my church expecting her fifth. no emails yet from the church so maybe no birth yet? I just smile, smile, smile when I think of those little ones taking their first gulp of air and their moms hugging them for the first time...so beautiful!Posted by: Sydney M. at March 4, 2010 12:20 PM
What if you found out your own mother had an abortion before she had you? Would that change anything? No? Well, it did for me. I don't care what you folks have to say. I am pro-choice because I'm pro-life. No one is pro-choice because they hate babies; no is pro-abortion. No one WANTS anyone to feel that their only choice is abortion; but if that's what it comes to, no one on earth besides that woman should have a damned thing to do with her decision to go through with it.
This is not a fight that will go anywhere. We are not people who will ever agree. Don't waste your time on me.Posted by: Suburban Sweetheart at March 4, 2010 12:42 PM
Why aren't you for abortion? Did you know that prior to being called Pro choice, which was more an effort to improve their image, PC's were called pro-abortion and had no issue with it.Posted by: Mary at March 4, 2010 12:47 PM
And Sydney, by the way: Of course I support education about abortion and the myriad other option that ought to be considered when a woman finds herself in the situation of an unwanted pregnancy. Absolutely - that, in fact, is probably something we CAN agree on. The need for education about sex, sexuality, and the consequences of unprotected sex should without a doubt be presented to every single human being, male and female, on every corner of the planet. I support comprehensive sexuality education that promotes not only abstinence but responsible decisions regarding safe sex - that teaches the risks (pregnancy, emotional responses, STIs), prevention tactics and preparedness at all levels. I support a budget that includes funding for education like this, rather than faulty abstinence-only education that is proven not only to NOT work but to actually work against those who are taught it - women who receive abstinence-only sexuality education are far more likely to find themselves in situations of unwanted pregnancies than are those who receive comprehensive sexuality education.
But what do YOU support? Oftentimes, I'm shocked to find that the anti-choice community also only supports abstinence-only education. How can you reconcile these two beliefs? The best way to keep women from feeling that abortion is their only choice is for them never to end up in that situation to begin with - and that requires education right from the vert start.Posted by: Suburban Sweetheart at March 4, 2010 12:48 PM
How about some examples of what an overwhelming success birth control education has been for our high school students. I remember hearing these same arguments in the 1980's. They are regularly recycled, especially when teen pregnancy rate again begin to rise.
If I had a dime for every teenage girl I have seen who has deliberately become pregnant, I could retire.
Did I tell you about the 22y/o I recently encountered who had just had her 7th baby? Actually it was her 8th since she had had an ectopic pregnancy a few months prior to her recent pregnancy.
"So you assume that all women, who walk into abortion clinics, were not given all the facts and that they are making a misinformed decision? Really?"
When Angie Jackson tells the world that the 4 week old gestating human she has paid to have killed is "Just a 2 layered ball of cells..." because that is what PP told her when it is actually more like this: http://archive.student.bmj.com/issues/1204/education/images/view_3.jpg then yeah, that is exactly what we are saying, because it's obviously true.
"What if you found out your own mother had an abortion before she had you? Would that change anything? No? Well, it did for me."
Oh look...speak of the devil and he shall appear...Wasn't I just talking about horrible mothers who tell their kids that "You're only alive because mommy had your big brother/sister killed, so you'll love abortion and you'll love mommy's abortion...or else!" Perfect example of how jacked-up that makes a person right here.Posted by: xalisae at March 4, 2010 1:17 PM
SS---um, no. My employee had had an abortion she didn't want at 19. Her mother forced her to do it (and believe me it caused bad blood between them for years).
My employee knew perfectly well that SEX makes BABIES. And she had the pill...yet refused to take it. Did they use condoms? No..they were adults, they could have walked into any Walmart, or any pharmacy etc... and bought them...but yet they didn't use them. So don't tell me EDUCATION is the key. PULEASE. People aren't dummies...people know how babies are made. People have access to contraception.Yet they don't use it. They just keep on having sex with anyone and then are dismayed when they get diseases or find themselves pregnant. And in my case, I was on the pill when I got pregnant. I took it religiously every day. I was not on antibiotics and yet I still got knocked up.
My employee was scheduled to have another abortion but I talked her out of it. THANK GOD. I showed her pictures of her 6 week baby and told her that SHE COULD DO IT! And she had her daughter, and today that girl is 2. And the mom thanked me for being the only person to tell her not to have an abortion. She told me she used to feel really bad about her abortion but having her daughter helped her get past those feelings for the first time in years.
I'm sorry you've lost a sibling to abortion. That makes me feel sad. I think if I found out my mom had had an abortion that would make me feel sad... alarmed that my mom could have done that to ME. It would definitely NOT make me pro-choice. Killing your child should never be a choice.
I mean, so you say you don't hate babies, but if it comes to that....then you support it. Do you support what Susan Smith did and Andrea Yates did? i mean...for them...it came to THAT--killing their kids. Do you support their choice? I can never understand why pro-abortion people say its okay to kill kids in the womb but suddenly somehow its not okay after birth. Although, a few of you are more honest (Singer) and say that killing kids after birth is morally equivalent to abortion and okay too.Posted by: Sydney M. at March 4, 2010 1:18 PM
And, as someone who used to poo-poo abstinence-only sex ed., I was surprised to find it actually is effective.Posted by: xalisae at March 4, 2010 1:22 PM
xalisae @ 1:22 PM,
From the study:
"Only about a third of sixth- and seventh-graders who completed an abstinence-focused program started having sex within the next two years, researchers found. Nearly half of the students who attended other classes, including ones that combined information about abstinence and contraception, became sexually active."
While the article is somewhat encouraging, imagine how much lower the numbers (of children having sex) would be if their parents took responsibility for educating their children too. 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th graders should not be having sex. Period. They should be taught this by their parents who should be telling them "do as I say, not as I do"! Odds are the parents of the African-American children in the study were also sexually active at a young age. I'm assuming these kids are from low income families, although I don't know if that is true. How will they escape poverty if they don't devote time to their studies? Obviously abortion is not the solution. I have no trouble telling these kids that they should wait until marriage to have sex, although I realize that's not a popular position for everyone. Children tend to live up to expectations. Set the bar too low and teen pregnancy results.Posted by: Janet at March 4, 2010 2:18 PM
"Children tend to live up to expectations. *Set the bar too low and teen pregnancy results."*
I should have left out the first sentence. Obviously that is not always true!
Janet...I agree. I never thought I would turn out like my mom, but I laugh now that I KNOW I will be a warden like her! She was VERY watchful over me. She knew who my friends were etc...and I was NEVER alone with a boy. NEVER. I had boyfriends but there was no where we could have snuck off to to have sex.
When I was an older teenager (senior in highschool) etc.. I did stupid things like sneak out of the house, but I never had sex with my boyfriends because I was just too scared of getting caught! My husband is pretty appreciative my mom took the time to guard me and "shelter" me...I was like a young sapling. I needed the support and shelter till my roots were deep enough in godly, moral principals to stand on my own.
And I know I am going to be exactly that kind of mom with my son, and if God blesses me, with my daughter.
I know some poor families have to work a lot of jobs just to make ends meet, but they need to figure it out. SOMEONE needs to be minding the kids!Posted by: Sydney M. at March 4, 2010 2:27 PM
Guys, I'm not getting into these arguments about whether I support actual infanticide (Yates-style) or whether I mourn the death of my "sibling" (who was not a sibling because IT NEVER EXISTED), or whether I think it's appalling that a 22-year-old has seven kids. Nothing any of you says is compelling to me AT ALL - it just makes me more fervently pro-choice and makes me dislike "values" like yours even more. As I said - please don't waste your time on me, & I won't waste mine on you. I don't regret chiming in on your site because I still feel it's important to do so - and your trolls appear EVERYWHERE on our pro-choice sites - but I will not be back to continue circular conversations that lead to nothing but anger. Fight for your cause, & I will continue to fight for mine. Such is the beauty of a country that allows us to have different views, right? Carry on.Posted by: Suburban Sweetheart at March 4, 2010 2:46 PM
It's ok, SS. WE will mourn him/her for you. Someone must. He/she existed in your mother's womb just as you did (certainly you don't think you just appeared one day as an infant, crying and breathing and pooping, do you?) at that stage in your life, and denying the existence of him/her doesn't mean that human never did exist, just that you are in denial. I imagine it would be very hard to come to terms with the fact that your mother elected to have your sibling's life ended, and that depending upon her circumstances, yours could've been as well...that's not the unconditional love of a mother, and I'm sure it must be a hard life to live without knowing that your mother would love you no matter what (even if you came into being inside her at an inopportune moment). I'm sorry, and if you ever need any of us, you will know right where to find us.Posted by: xalisae at March 4, 2010 3:00 PM
Thank you to all here that are doing 40 Days for Life! Thank you for being out there day after day praying and waiting to talk with someone and show them THE TRUTH about fetal development and offer REAL help.
I know that I looked around the parking lot almost 20 years ago and hoped that someone would be there. Someone who would be there for me and offer to help me. Offer me something, anything other than what I perceived to be my only choice. Nobody was there and I had the abortion.
Oh, and I think you commenters are simply amazing! I am so grateful for your voices here and how bold you are in speaking the truth and the wisdom in your posts. You're good!!!
I was shown a filmstrip of a bunch of red circles and told it was just a bunch of cells. I was 10 weeks along.
The latest Live Action video shows a Planned Parenthood in my state LYING to someone about fetal development! A "counselor" telling a young girl that it's a baby when it's born.....the abortionist telling her it's a baby when it's around 6-7 months!! WTH??!!
Please tell me how you help post abortive women who regret it deeply and have struggled for years with it.
I did not lose a sibling to abortion. I lost a niece or a nephew. My mother took my sister for an abortion. Her own grandchild.Posted by: carla at March 4, 2010 3:14 PM
And, just because pro-choicers seem to be so very, very, VERY ignorant of science, let's review:
An EGG is not a FETUS. A chicken egg you scramble and eat for breakfast isn't the same as one that hatches and a chick comes out. An egg must be FERTILIZED before it will give rise to another chicken, and chicken houses pay people to make sure that no roosters get near the laying hens unless they actually want to make more chickens. This is the reason that when you guys say "Well, duhhh...what about my period? you gonna cry about that?" we say no, because the egg expelled in your period was never going to be another person. Thinking that whipped egg whites = a chicken fetus is just about the most ignorant thing I've ever heard, and masturbation:abortion as scrambled eggs:Balut (look it up). I'm so sick of your guys' B.S. accusing US of being "unscientific" when you guys say some of the dumbest crap I've ever heard on a regular basis.Posted by: xalisae at March 4, 2010 3:15 PM
Oh goodness, X, you crack me up!Posted by: Bobby Bambino at March 4, 2010 3:21 PM
Sorry, it just gets to me sometimes. Glad I could brighten your day though, BB. :PPosted by: xalisae at March 4, 2010 3:30 PM
May I remind you that you made the choice to post here so don't get on our case. Instead address some of the questions and issues we raised. That should be no problem at all for a person of strong conviction, such as yourself.Posted by: Mary at March 4, 2010 3:34 PM
But then the Reform and Conservative Jewish community, overwhelmingly pro-choice, (based on the teachings of their rabbis)
Posted by: Artemis at March 3, 2010 6:12 PM
10% of Jews are Orthodox and believe that basically abortion is prohibited except to save the mother's life.
27% of Jews under the age of 18 are Orthodox. Care to guess why?
I am going out on a limb here and guessing it is because their parents love kids. The future belongs to those who embrace it. Faithful Jews know abortion is basically murder and they don't buy it. And they teach their kids the truth.
"This is the reason that when you guys say "Well, duhhh...what about my period? you gonna cry about that?" we say no, because the egg expelled in your period was never going to be another person. Thinking that whipped egg whites = a chicken fetus is just about the most ignorant thing I've ever heard, and masturbation:abortion as scrambled eggs:Balut (look it up). I'm so sick of your guys' B.S. accusing US of being "unscientific" when you guys say some of the dumbest crap I've ever heard on a regular basis."
Thank you! I can't stand this argument. The mind-boggling stupidity of it! It makes you wonder how many times these people failed biology. *takes a deep breath, calms down*
And I can't agree with you more on that last sentence.
"No one WANTS anyone to feel that their only choice is abortion; but if that's what it comes to, no one on earth besides that woman should have a damned thing to do with her decision to go through with it."
If you really believe that abortion is purely your choice based on what to do with your own body, and no one, not even the father should have a say, then be consistent about it: if you do choose to keep the baby and the father walks, don't demand he legally be responsible for the baby. After all you claim your unborn baby is your property and the father has no rights to that unborn baby. So how ocme all of a sudden he is responsible for what you deem is your property all the way before birth?
That you two have sex? Sorry, but the rest of that is conception. By saying he has no right to the unborn, and it is just your body and you do what you want with that, including getting rid of your unborn in that cold manner, you also are saying, the father has no connection to the child who is unborn. If he is not connected to the child, when the child is unborn, then consistently he has no ties to the child once he is or she is born.
Be consistent with your own arguments.
That's the hypocrisy of the radical feminist abortionists.
PS: I am for the record against guys who walk out on their girlfriends or wives or whoever and refuse to take care of the children they have together. But just saying that your position of the unborn being purely your property and your body and it's all about right to choose to be a parent or not is so disingenous, since your side believe that fathers should have no choice but to be fathers if mothers choose to keep their babiesPosted by: Punisher at March 4, 2010 4:57 PM
10% of Jews are Orthodox and believe that basically abortion is prohibited except to save the mother's life.
27% of Jews under the age of 18 are Orthodox. Care to guess why?
Posted by: hippie at March 4, 2010 3:36 PM
Orthodox families have more children? Also, I assume the kids in Orthodox families can't easily reject the nonsense until they get a little older.
Posted by: Artemis at March 3, 2010 5:43 PM
And another BTW,
a well respected member of our Jewish community, who is a "deathscort,"
was called a Christ killer and a baby killer.
I am certain that a person who is a 'deathscort' may be well respected by his/her fellowtravelers and cohorts, but I am equally certain there are people in your Jewish community who find this kosher klowns activities repugnant.
All of us are or were 'Christ killers'.
But not all of us are 'baby killers'.
Enjoy your fellowship.
yor bro kenPosted by: kbhvac at March 4, 2010 6:19 PM
Wow. Xalisae, Sydney M., Punisher, Mary, Carla and the rest of you. Great posts. Keep up the good work.
Good news everyone. My friend who is expecting a baby, that some of you were praying for, went to Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and they are quite optimistic that the growth in her baby's lung is reducing in size and he should be fine. Thanks for all your prayers and good wishes. LIFE IS SO PRECIOUS!! LIFE WHAT A BEAUTIFUL CHOICE!! Never is ANY child's life disposable because of disability, how he/she was conceived, race, gender, socio-economic status, planned or unplanned, life-expectancy or any other reasone the pro-deathers come up with. No matter if my friends baby has physical problems or not he is still deserves to be given life, not to be given a death sentence in his mother's womb. I am so glad she went to get a second opinion because the omnious prognosis the first perinatologist gave her was not what the specialist in Philadelphia agreed with, he thinks her baby will be fine or at least with proper care after birth have a good outcome. "I set before you blessings and curses, life or death. Choose life, that you and your seed may live" Deuteromony 30:19 Please keep counseling women to choose life. God bless all you prolifers. Keep fighting the good fight for the most innocent, precious unborn babies. Love you guys.Posted by: Prolifer L at March 8, 2010 9:26 PM
Prolifer L...that is fantastic! I said prayers for this little one! God is so good! I will continue to pray the birth goes well and that that baby will grow big and strong!Posted by: Sydney M. at March 8, 2010 10:24 PM
Thanks Sydney M. God is definately good. I do think prenatal testing is a double-edged sword for expectant mothers today. As a healthcare worker I see some benefits in prenatal testing but they give women such a sense of forboding with tenative negative diagnoses, I call it "tenative pregnancy syndrome" some women cannot even enjoy their pregnancies and the joy of expectant motherhood is being drained out of these women. Much of it I think is due to OBs not wanting to be liable for or responsible for "wrongful life"(whatever that means). They want to cover their butts if you don't have a "perfect baby", (what does that tell you).
God help us.Posted by: Prolifer L at March 8, 2010 11:01 PM