Imagine had Michael Vick been discovered not only to be into dog torture but braggadociously into baking cookies of mutilated dogs. We'd say he had an extra dose of sick in him.
No doubt pro-abort Rachel Joy Larris will clap her hands in glee by the attention I'm giving the bloody fetus cookies she cleverly baked and decorated. Rachel won't get it because she has an extra dose of sick in her.
Rachel posted these photos and captions on twitpic yesterday (click to enlarge):
Rachel goes by NewsCat_in_DC on Twitter.
You might be prepared to excuse Rachel as a mindless teen, but as near as I can tell Rachel is at least 30 years old. Along with being a crazed culinary hobbyist, Rachel is a freelance writer, and I've found articles written by her as far back as 2000, which is how I got my age guesstimate. Shock, despite her grossly adolescent behavior, Rachel apparently completed grad school in '05, Georgetown, no less.
Rachel's bio on RH Reality Check (way to pick 'em, Jodi) states she is the "former Communications Director of American Forum and Project Director of the National Women's Editorial Forum. She previously worked as an editor and blogger for TomPaine.com."
Rachel appears to have a lot of former jobs, although none current. Perhaps instead of baking aborted baby cookies as a joke, Rachel should get herself a job at an abortion mill and then tell us how funny this all is.
Wow, that is one of the vilest things I have ever seen. But keep going, pro-aborts. Your mental instability is actually helping the pro-life cause.Posted by: MaryLee at July 1, 2010 10:53 AM
Yes..really!Posted by: Pamela at July 1, 2010 11:03 AM
That's like something that mentally deranged homicidal maniacs would do in their spare time...which I think she apparently has too much of!Posted by: Pamela at July 1, 2010 11:06 AM
People will do anything for attention.Posted by: Alayna Staggers at July 1, 2010 11:07 AM
Yeah, this kind of sick humor doesn't do any favors for the pro-choice side when addressing moderates, fence-sitters, or post-abortion women it only makes them look like uncaring, immature political activists wannabes.Posted by: Rachael C. at July 1, 2010 11:07 AM
Gross. That's pseudo-cannibalism.Posted by: JoAnna at July 1, 2010 11:23 AM
This literally brings me to tears. I was a rape baby by all rights my mother couldve aborted me without a thought but she gave me up for adoption. Today Jesus made a ultimate display of what he can do with sin Im a pastor on mission to see people come to know Him.Posted by: Seth at July 1, 2010 11:25 AM
This is unbelievably disgusting. Makes me question whether the clinic workers who oversaw my abortion actually cared or think it's some sort of joke. What disrespect for women who have abortions.Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 1, 2010 11:29 AM
This is just awful. :(Posted by: Becky at July 1, 2010 11:31 AM
Extra dose of sick is a HUGE understatement.Posted by: Kristen at July 1, 2010 11:36 AM
This is sick, vile and digusting. How an individual can be so evil and twisted in her thinking and actions is beyond me.
God, please confront her about this, and help her to change her heart and mind. In Jesus name I pray. Amen.Posted by: Tom Ambrose at July 1, 2010 11:37 AM
This just makes me want to cry. :(
How calloused are we?Posted by: MaryRose at July 1, 2010 11:40 AM
This is sick, sick, sick--and very wrong. This woman needs help--and Jesus.Posted by: KL at July 1, 2010 11:44 AM
Could this be an example of post-abortive psychosis or something?
Would any sane people YOU know bake, say, cookies made to look like mutilated cats and dogs?Posted by: Kelli at July 1, 2010 11:57 AM
These folks just don't get the reality of abortion. In China, they actually make soup from aborted fetuses and it is considered to be a serious health food. This is what happens to a country that has completely disregarded the value of human life, and I don't doubt that it can happen here too.Posted by: Julie Culshaw at July 1, 2010 11:57 AM
Wow, those cookies are pretty distasteful! I also find Stanek's use of the term "pro-abort" as pretty distasteful, too. No one wants more abortions. All in all, that website is just another in a list that get traffic by playing to the extreme edges, so in reality Stanek's blog is in the same category as the woman who baked those terrible cookies. This kind of rhetoric just confuses the issue and turns everyone into extremists. By demonizing the woman who baked those terrible cookies Stanek has done a disservice to her readers. She pettily attacks the woman instead of trying to understand and learn from it. But I guess that's the internet for ya. =)Posted by: Nick at July 1, 2010 12:16 PM
perhaps Obama can tell us where to find the "common ground" on this one?
This is what higher education is all about these days - indoctrination in the culture of death.
Pray this woman NEVER has children. :(Posted by: angel at July 1, 2010 12:17 PM
What are you talking about, Nick? It's pretty clear that the person who baked those cookies is "pro-abortion." It's not rhetoric to call her on something she seems quite proud of.
What is disgusting is the fact that you are more offended by Jill's language than the intentional deaths of 4000 American children a day.Posted by: lauren at July 1, 2010 12:20 PM
Nick--what do you mean by....well, your entire post?
First, how is Jill doing a disservice to ANYONE? She's not demonizing Rachel. Rachel is doing that all by herself. Jill is reporting what she sees. It's not different than pro-aborts demonizing "anti-choice" activists.
And as for "pro-abortion"....please, spare me the double-speak. If nobody LIKES or WANTS abortion, then why should it be a choice for anyone? It's this kind of lukewarm namby-pamby thinking that is even more dangerous than Rachel's maniacal, hate-filled delusion. If you are pro "CHOICE" then you are pro-abortion. "Choice" is a euphemism for a abortion. Pro-aborts criticize women who CHOOSE to reject abortion. If you support anyone's choice to have an abortion, then you are pro-abortion.
But, as always, pro-abort logic....it simply doesn't exist. You guys are painting yourselves into a corner.Posted by: MaryLee at July 1, 2010 12:22 PM
"She pettily attacks the woman instead of trying to understand and learn from it."
What are we supposed to learn from baking fetus cookies?Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 1, 2010 12:25 PM
MaryLee, if I could high-five you right now, I would!
I couldn't have responded to Nick any better than you just did!
As far as the cookies go, this story is completely disgusting. How I feel has already been stated by other Pro-Lifers (or, to make Nick feel better: Anti-Aborts). This stuff is sick!Posted by: Desteny Boodt at July 1, 2010 12:32 PM
These cookies are more accurate than the informaion given during counseling at an abortion clinic. Maybe instead of having women talk to a counselor, they should just hand her one of Rachel's cookies. "Oh, you are in your 2nd trimester? You would require a D&E. Here, have this cookie where the linbs of the fetus have been torn off leaving bloody stumps. That is pretty much what will happen to your fetus during your abortion." And BTW, I thought they weren't babies. Abortion just terminates a pregnancy by removing some tissue. Hmmm...sure looks like Rachel recognizes, by her very detailed art work, that the fetus certainly looks like a baby...and an aborted fetus is bloody, limbless, sad, & dead.Posted by: lifer at July 1, 2010 12:36 PM
Just color me shocked. I was appalled by this. Very creepy.Posted by: Mother In Texas at July 1, 2010 12:43 PM
My question is this: who the heck would eat one of these?Posted by: phillymiss at July 1, 2010 12:43 PM
I think Nick maybe Rachel in disguise...Society is sick and getting sicker.Posted by: AJB at July 1, 2010 12:48 PM
Lifer, great thoughts!Posted by: Jill Stanek at July 1, 2010 12:49 PM
Those cookies are as shocking and horrifying as anything I have ever seen. Imagine if the next grade school room mother brings those cookies to the next classroom party... wow. That would shed some LIGHT AND TRUTH on the whole abortion industry!!!!!!Posted by: Lori Sheppard at July 1, 2010 12:49 PM
"She pettily attacks the woman instead of trying to understand and learn from it."
What are we supposed to learn from baking fetus cookies?
Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at July 1, 2010 12:25 PM
yes that was the line that stuck out to me too.
What's to learn? And what's to understand other than this woman is a very disturbed person who trivializes the death of babies, abortion (which we are told again and again by proaborts is made with thought by women) and unwanted pregnancies.
I'm also sure men who have had their babies aborted without having any say in whether their children should live, might also not be so amused.
grow up. That's what I have to say to "princess" Rachel.Posted by: angel at July 1, 2010 12:53 PM
Her cookies are tacky! Here's her photo! AND SHE DOESN'T! EVEN! HAVE! A JOB!
Way to show us how much more ~mature~ and ~sensitive~ and ~thoughtful~ you are than Rachel is, Stanek.
All class.Posted by: Maria at July 1, 2010 12:57 PM
You know, things like this make it pretty hard to believe anyone when they say that no one thinks that abortion is a trivial issue.
Can't get much more trivial than this.Posted by: lauren at July 1, 2010 12:58 PM
Pamela says: "That's like something that mentally deranged homicidal maniacs would do in their spare time..."
Posted by: dewayne
at July 1, 2010 1:00 PM
I don't quite follow your logic. History is replete with one example after another of the mainstream ignoring the lunatic fringe, and living to regret it. A certain temperamental, short, Bavarian man with a funny mustache in the middle of the twentieth century comes to mind. When his people made lampshades from the skin of Jews, shrunk heads for souveniers, and killed some 14 million humans in his death camps the world asked "how could this have happened?"
The answer is simple. Bad weeds need to be identified and uprooted quickly before they get a chance to grow a large underground system of roots which start sending up new weeds everywhere at once.
Jill has done us all a favor today. Were this 40 years ago, Jill's post would have been the topic of psychiatric seminars all around the country, as people plumbed the depths of depravity that could lead a woman to bake such hideous cookies.
But then, if this were 40 years ago, such a psychopath would be regarded and ostracized as such. That she feels free to publish her twisted take on Betty Crocker suggests how the fringe has moved closer to the center. It's right down there in the gutter with condom tree centerpieces at black tie dinners celebrating the opening of the largest abortuary in the world outside of China.
Far from being depraved on the opposite side of the spectrum, Jill is revealing to us our own societal sickness in the embrace and normalization of these people and their activities. That's not a function of mental illness. That's a profile in courage.
Thanks Jill!Posted by: Gerard Nadal at July 1, 2010 1:04 PM
Instead of proabort outrage over these cookies and why in the world someone would bake them blame Jill Stanek. Always blame Jill.
If Jill happens to post a graphic abortion photo blame her as well. Never the person who perpetrated the violence depicted.Posted by: carla at July 1, 2010 1:05 PM
It's the internet version of stoning the prophets.
God Bless You for your faithful and courageous witness!!Posted by: Gerard Nadal at July 1, 2010 1:10 PM
If you visit the Cake Wrecks blog you'll find the oddest post-op cakes. Rachel might be onto something. She can market these cakes and cookies outside of Planned Parenthood similar to how a hospital has a gift shop.
"Congratulations on your abortion!"
And if you think I'm being facetious, then WHY WOULDN'T these cakes and cookies be a fun way to lift the spirit of a post-abortive mother? Is "congratulations" too tacky? Or the cookies? Or both?Posted by: Cranky Catholic at July 1, 2010 1:12 PM
God IS watching.Posted by: Jody Ward at July 1, 2010 1:23 PM
This woman needs counseling, shock therapy or something. They let this woman roam around freely? She's nuts! God will see that she pays for mocking His creation of life.Posted by: Eastern_Orthodox_Poet at July 1, 2010 1:25 PM
Rachel could be trying to deal with her own abortion in a very sick twisted way. It's like joking you're an alcoholic when you really are an alcoholic. I feel very sorry for her. If she has an abortion(s) someday when and if she hits that wall this will be just one more layer she is going to have to recover from. It's always gets back at you, someway or another.
This woman like so many need prayers, love and evidently attention.Posted by: ann marie at July 1, 2010 1:35 PM
Who's blaming Jill for anything? Blaming = assigning culpability. Me = pointing out that if Jill is the moral standard-bearer of Christianity now, then it really is true: your medieval superstition really IS circling the drain.
Seriously: there used to be saints. Now the best Christianity can produce is some woman with a shark-eyed smile and a mean streak who monitors people's Twitter feeds waiting for an opportunity to Google up the photographs and resumes of those who offend her.
And you social maladepts call her a PROPHET! Delicious. Delicious like cookies.Posted by: Maria at July 1, 2010 1:38 PM
This may shock you...but if you get the irony in what she said, it's a joke. These cookies are about making the 'baby killer' stigma into satire. You know...we don't just kill babies, we eat them too? Personally, I am pro-life, but this article is about as bad as PETA trying to get Spearfish SD to chainge their name to Spearsea-kitten. Just saying.Posted by: Danielle at July 1, 2010 1:38 PM
Jill I know I shouldn't weigh in because this is your sandbox (and I respect that).
But are fetus-shaped cookies really MORE offensive than gingerbread men? I mean in that case your eating a WHOLE LIVE PERSON, which seems to me should be much worse.Posted by: NewsCat at July 1, 2010 1:43 PM
Wow, Maria, you might want to switch to decaf. Nobody calls Jill a prophet. And not all of us are Christian, or even religious.
I'm done feeling "sorry" for pro-aborts. Y'all are seriously hateful.Posted by: MaryLee at July 1, 2010 1:43 PM
Danielle, we get that it's a "joke." The fact that someone finds killing innocent children something to joke about shows how depraved she is.
In order to make the "baby killer" stigma into a staire, it would have to be inaccurate. It's not, and thus her attempt at humor falls flat.
How would you feel if someone supporting genocide made cookies in the shape of the oppressed ethnic group?Posted by: lauren at July 1, 2010 1:44 PM
I also find it humorous that some pro-aborts are vegetarians. And by "humorous" I mean "completely ridiculous."Posted by: MaryLee at July 1, 2010 1:46 PM
Every Christian is called to be the moral standard-bearer of Christianity. You're right, there used to be saints. here still are, in every age.
We tend not to recognize saints in out midst because they are often hard-driving and morally uncompromising. It is usually through the dispassionate lens of history that their virtues and their fruits come into clear focus.
As for researching human activity using the web, welcome to the new town square. Jill is on the cutting edge, which isn't the same as the lunatic fringe, and that enrages her opponents.
Keep at it Jill. As the old bomber pilots say, "If you're not catching flack, you're not over the target."Posted by: Gerard Nadal at July 1, 2010 1:47 PM
Jill I know I shouldn't weigh in because this is your sandbox (and I respect that).
But are fetus-shaped cookies really MORE offensive than gingerbread men? I mean in that case your eating a WHOLE LIVE PERSON, which seems to me should be much worse.
Posted by: NewsCat at July 1, 2010 1:43 PM
If anyone should weigh in, it's you, because you BAKED the cookies, Rachel.Posted by: Kelli at July 1, 2010 1:52 PM
If she can find a pro-abort elementary school teacher to take those cookies to her third-grade class, maybe they can eat them for a special snack. We all KNOW that anatomically and scientifically correct rubber fetus dolls are taboo, so maybe an irreverent snack of bloody aborted fetuses might send the politically correct message to tomorrow's pre-teens.Posted by: Michelle a.k.a. PajamaMama at July 1, 2010 1:55 PM
But are fetus-shaped cookies really MORE offensive than gingerbread men? I mean in that case your eating a WHOLE LIVE PERSON, which seems to me should be much worse.
Posted by: NewsCat at July 1, 2010 1:43 PM
Um, they're both equally cookies. If you know what I mean.
Ugh. Yeah, killing babies and joking about it is so cute! *puts finger down throat*
If I was ever glad to be formerly pro "choice," it's now. Congratulations, Rachel.Posted by: MaryLee at July 1, 2010 1:57 PM
"But are fetus-shaped cookies really MORE offensive than gingerbread men? I mean in that case your eating a WHOLE LIVE PERSON, which seems to me should be much worse."
Well, first I should point out that the fetus is a WHOLE LIVE PERSON as well, so your point is a bit moot.
Given that, I refer you to my question above regarding some supporter of genocide making cookies said to represent members of the hated ethnic group.
Would you find it a bit distasteful for someone to make a "Kurdish" cookie, complete with x'd out eyes and seeping blood? I doubt it.Posted by: lauren at July 1, 2010 2:00 PM
God gave them over to a depraved mind!
Romans 1:24-32Posted by: Leslie Hanks at July 1, 2010 2:06 PM
"shark-eyed smile" - didn't expect to get a hearty guffaw from any of the comments on this post... made my day, Maria.Posted by: Jill Stanek at July 1, 2010 2:06 PM
MaryLee: "No one" except Gerard Nadal at July 1, 2010 1:10 PM.
I don't drink coffee, actually. Am I to take it you do? That's kinda surprising... since I was under the impression coffee made one more alert. xo!Posted by: Maria at July 1, 2010 2:36 PM
I found that post ops cake wrecks blog post to be a little more disturbing/just as disturbing as these cookies.
There are strange ways people deal with their own abortions....you have to wonder what this woman's story is......Posted by: LizFromNebraska at July 1, 2010 2:58 PM
A few years ago there was an abortionist in the news who was found to have containers with aborted babies stored in his refrigerator at his clinic. Don't be so quick to make jokes, Rachel. That's sick even for a pro-choicer. I don't recall his name but I'm pretty sure that Jill reported on it.
* * *
"No one wants more abortions.:
Nick @ 12:16,
Not true. There is a whole industry built around abortion. Planned Parenthood and independent abortionists would be unemployed if there weren't enough abortions to cover their overhead costs and provide a tidy profit. Lobbyists, and politicians profit directly or indirectly from the abortion industry. The adult entertainment industry and prostitution take advantage of the fact that abortion is legal - adulterers and rapists as well. Pro-aborts are everywhere. Luckily, the majority of Americans can see abortion for the evil it is. The pro-aborts are aborting themselves into obscurity.Posted by: Janet at July 1, 2010 3:16 PM
Holy sweet merciful mother of ****[edited by moderator], I HOPE this sorry woman never works at an abortion clinic.
Sorry for the strong language.
Can they at least warn the woman? "Well ma'am, this clinic worker likes to make cookies shaped like aborted babies..."
This is like someone who thinks animal torture is funny.Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 1, 2010 3:17 PM
I just think it's in poor taste; this woman isn't any more insane than the guy marching around in a grim reaper costume on Capitol Hill stabbing a Barbie with a knife. This woman doesn't speak for me any more than Scott Roeder speaks for you (most of whom seem to be anti-violence all the way around).
This is all just more stupid sensationalism. Everybody loses with this one.Posted by: Megan at July 1, 2010 3:49 PM
The more reactions she gets the better she likes it. Don't play into this. This is just something to get attention.Posted by: Alayna Staggers at July 1, 2010 3:58 PM
Megan @ 3:49,
I don't think Rachel speaks for all pro-choicers and I don't think she thinks so either, nor does the Grim Reaper think he speaks for all pro-lifers.
What about the abortionist (a so-called professional) who kept aborted babies in his refrigerator. Was he eating them? I'm guessing Rachel hasn't heard of him until now and maybe she'd think twice about her decision to make fetus cookies.Posted by: Janet at July 1, 2010 4:14 PM
I would totally chomp into one of those cookies.
People really need to lighten up. Yes, I know, but how could you lighten up about something as serious as the brutal murder of so many innocent children? Because maybe that's this woman's way of using humor to deflect the sting of all the people like you who would take away her reproductive rights in an instant.Posted by: isobel at July 1, 2010 4:14 PM
Child's play, Rachel.
Is that the best you can do?
Those aren't real children. I'm not offended by such foolish behavior compared to what happens to real children - "babies" - all the time.
Obviously this is a pathetic attempt to get a reaction from pro-lifers.
Was it good for you Rachel?
Is your idea of fun sort of like porn snuff films?
Do you watch abortions to get your thrills?
Go the whole way - become a late term abortionist so you can get just as excited as Warren Hern and Leroy Carhart.
Then at least you could say you've been helpful to your cause.
And yes, you're in need of some serious prayer, because right now you've made it abundantly clear you don't have much of a life.Posted by: Chris Arsenault at July 1, 2010 4:16 PM
Yeah, as long as you see it as a cookie not a fetus, chomp away, and keep promoting those reproductive "rights" with humor.
Posted by: isobel at July 1, 2010 4:15 PM
Isobel - what's a "reproductive right"? Don't you have enough guts to say "so a mother can kill her child?"
Isn't that funny?
It's a painful thing isn't it, not to be able to kill your child?!
haha! Oh - that's hilarious!!!
Pro-aborts shy away from the reality of life and withdraw into their own worlds of choice, and in the end your position is one of insanity - indefensible and without a shred of valid logic or mercy.
Jill's spot on - we've got such a screwed up sense of life and priorities that dogs have more rights than our children, and horses have more rights and protections than invalids.
Aborted baby cookies.
Planned Parenthood signature Condom Trees.
Women live tweeting their abortions.
Academy award-style ceremony for abortionists complete with categories, hosted by the Prince of Darkness himself, LeRoy Carhart.
Planned Parenthood centers thrilling over offers of money earmarked for the abortion of black babies.
Planned parenthood employees repeatedly failing to notify law enforcement of what they know to be statutory rape victims before them.
None of this is fringe. This IS the mainstream of the abortion movement, ad yes, Jill very much reminds me of the prophet standing before King David after he murdered Uriah, pointing the accusatory finger and proclaiming, "Thou art the man!"
That's what God's prophets do. They speak God's word of truth to power.
"this woman isn't any more insane than the guy marching around in a grim reaper costume on Capitol Hill" Posted by: Megan at July 1, 2010 3:49 PM
Except that Grim Reaper Guy is trying with everything he has to save humans from being killed by the person who should love them the most and Creepy Fetus Cookie Gal is making a mockery of the slaughtering of these same humans by the person who should love them the most.
How long ago did you abort your offspring Creepy Fetus Cookie Gal?
Posted by: Praxedes
at July 1, 2010 5:19 PM
I would totally chomp into one of those cookies.
People really need to lighten up. Yes, I know, but how could you lighten up about something as serious as the brutal murder of so many innocent children? Because maybe that's this woman's way of using humor to deflect the sting of all the people like you who would take away her reproductive rights in an instant.
Posted by: isobel at July 1, 2010 4:14 PM
ah I get it.
her sting is losing her reproductive rights
the baby's sting is getting torn limb from limb (that doesn't matter of course)
maybe you should exercise your reproductive rights BEFORE you conceive. Just a thought. ;)Posted by: angel at July 1, 2010 5:22 PM
Take away her reproductive rights, Isobel?
She has the right to keep her legs closed and avoid getting pregnant... she also has the right to have sex and become pregnant. As of currently, she has the right to spread her legs and get knocked up AND kill the child she created. It's just that many people here think she shouldn't have that right. Don't worry, the other two rights would still be available to her. I don't understand why killing someone should be a right women have, honestly.Posted by: Desteny Boodt at July 1, 2010 5:31 PM
You're 20, Desteny, right? In pro-life thinking, if you "spread your legs and get knocked up," you'll be 38 before you can legally stop paying the debt for that (poor, misguided, slutty, etc.) decision. And if you don't want to drop everything and have that kid, you're a selfish, immature wretch.
The Crisis Pregnancy Center will tell you abortion hurts women, but will never talk about the pain some women experience after choosing adoption. Or dropping out of school to parent. You'll just be lauded for your selflessness. And if you ask about the possibility of continuing your education, or getting a job, or returning your life to a semblance of normalcy, you'll be handed a pair of booties and some diapers. Because it's mommy time, and to desire anything else at that point is just plain selfish and immature.Posted by: Megan at July 1, 2010 6:40 PM
Maria, please. I'm sorry I don't have so much spare time to read every single comment on a blog, since I'm busy working and taking care of my daughter. There are some religious zealots here, but there are some of us who are secular pro-lifers, too. If you don't have an actual argument about Jill's post, then go hang out at a pro-abort blog and talk about how awesome and liberating abortion is.
Have a great day.Posted by: MaryLee at July 1, 2010 6:45 PM
Please list some sources for this information. You have interviewed all directors and volunteers at every CPC across the land right? You have been to one yourself I am sure and seen the coercion for yourself, of course. Go you!
I can't stand the phrase "spreading your legs and getting knocked up." btw. It's disgusting.Posted by: carla at July 1, 2010 6:49 PM
Megan, that's not what happens. I didn't receive misinformation about abortion. I also didn't have to wait until I was 38 for my life to start.
What your saying is: Life is hard. Oh, really? So, it's sometimes better to KILL your child, than to make a few sacrifices? It's better to KILL your child, than allow it to be raised by loving adoptive parents? It's better to KILL your child, than have to put some plans on hold? Because as hard as it's been for me, I don't regret it at all.
This is a typical pro-abortion argument. Why shouldn't selflessness be lauded? You pro-aborts should try it sometime. Life isn't fair. It isn't easy. We are not ENTITLED to have children when we want. We do not have a RIGHT to have children; children are a privilege. So if you make the choice to have sex, you must be aware that babies are made by having sex, and be ready to act responsibly. If you are pregnant, you are already a mother. If you're not ready to take on those consequences, then you are not ready to have sex. I'm not one for abstinence education, but please. We teach our kids to go to the bathroom at certain times, we teach ourselves not to eat certain things. Gosh, I know women who'd rather die than eat carbs, but abortion? They don't even think twice.
So really, the pro-abortion argument is really "Wah wah wah, boo hoo hoo, me me me."Posted by: MaryLee at July 1, 2010 6:51 PM
Oh, Isobel...."Reproductive Rights"...Ha ha ha ha, that's rich. Like reproduction is a RIGHT. Also, abortion isn't reproductive. It's destructive. I'm a woman, why would I want to squelch my own rights? I'm pro-gay marriage, pro-birth control, but you pro-aborts are so close-minded on this issue, it's insane.Posted by: MaryLee at July 1, 2010 6:54 PM
Oh, Isobel...."Reproductive Rights"...Ha ha ha ha, that's rich. Like reproduction is a RIGHT. Also, abortion isn't reproductive. It's destructive. I'm a woman, why would I want to squelch my own rights? I'm pro-gay marriage, pro-birth control, but you pro-aborts are so close-minded on this issue, it's insane.Posted by: MaryLee at July 1, 2010 6:55 PM
"And if you ask about the possibility of continuing your education, or getting a job, or returning your life to a semblance of normalcy, you'll be handed a pair of booties and some diapers. Because it's mommy time, and to desire anything else at that point is just plain selfish and immature. "
Posted by: lauren
at July 1, 2010 6:59 PM
What a bunch of crap. Only in "feminist" world does having children mean your suddenly incapable of doing anything outside of the house. You sure have a pretty narrow view of motherhood.
Gingerbread men are also pseudocannibalism.Posted by: Nulono at July 1, 2010 7:17 PM
Posted by: Nulono at July 1, 2010 7:30 PM
Lauren, I like the term "femisogynists." Pro-abortion "feminists" are the worst misogynists in existence.Posted by: MaryLee at July 1, 2010 7:33 PM
Lauren, I'm repeating what I've been told here. The dominant argument here is that you should subordinate all other interests to parenting if you're caught with an unplanned pregnancy. If you don't want to "make a few sacrifices," you're selfish. Read the comments above.
Mississippi has a high teen pregnancy rate. It's high school graduation rate is also about 61%. Coincidence?
Realistically, women SHOULD be able to get an education, have a life outside of parenting, AND be good mothers, if they WANT to. But pro-lifers don't focus so much on promoting policies that would help these poor young moms. Pro-choicers, typically fiscally liberal, tend to support programs like WIC and Medicaid and subsidized daycare. We willingly give up taxpayer dollars for these programs, these structural initiatives. We don't think women should struggle to do it all on their own. Do not accuse us of "only" pushing abortion. But we focus on it because it's the issue most under attack.
Also, an interesting article:Posted by: Megan at July 1, 2010 7:45 PM
Sorry, bug.Posted by: Nulono at July 1, 2010 7:47 PM
"The dominant argument here is that you should subordinate all other interests to parenting if you're caught with an unplanned pregnancy. If you don't want to "make a few sacrifices," you're selfish. Read the comments above. "
No one has said that you should subordinate all other interests to parenting. We just say you shouldn't kill your child. There's a pretty freaking wide gulf there, dear.
Also, CPC's offer help with WIC, Medicaid, Section 8, Grants, ect. You're barking up the wrong tree by claiming that they don't offer any practical help for women. In fact, pro-lifers also offer maternity housing for women facing crisis pregnancies. I've personally been told by the manager of a crisis pregnancy home that they will take ANY woman who comes in as a referal from a sidewalk counselor. That particular center is also an accredited highschool.
But that doesn't fit your tiny world view.Posted by: lauren at July 1, 2010 8:14 PM
"Mississippi has a high teen pregnancy rate. It's high school graduation rate is also about 61%. Coincidence?"
The legal minimum age for marriage in Mississippi is 15 for females, 17 for males, with parental consent. This may account for some of the teen pregnancies. Who is to say marriage is not the right choice for those who choose to marry early?
* * *
"We willingly give up taxpayer dollars for these programs, these structural initiatives."
How noble of you to offer my dollars to your causes. I prefer to make my own choices of charitable contributions so I don't have to support abortion.Posted by: Janet at July 1, 2010 9:29 PM
One of Raymond Showery's patients came back with a 16-week fetal head she'd passed, to complain. Staff took it from her, stuck it in a carton in the freezer with a note taped to it saying, "Hi! Do you remember me?" as a welcome back gift for another staffer who had been out of town for a training.
Abortion does sick things to you.Posted by: Christina at July 1, 2010 10:14 PM
You know, Megan, you are exactly right. In my opinion, the RIGHT thing for both parents to do is sacrifice anything and everything they have to for the child they created.
When I was 17, nearly 18, I made a slutty, poorly thought out decision and a month later learned I was pregnant. Everyone said that I should abort the child I was carrying... that I should arrange my baby's murder. Instead, I decided to keep the baby and move across the country to be with the childs father and at least try to give a relationship with him a shot... because that's the RIGHT thing to do... try to give the child you created the best possible life you can, even if that means changing yours. Being selfish when a child is involved is wrong.
My family worked with an adoption agency for numerous years taking in unwed mothers. They had a caseworker take them to their doctor appointments, counsel them and help them choose a family for adoption. Some of them even saw their babies after the adoptions took place.
Any pain these women had they had people waiting and willing to be there for them every step of the way, including support and help from my parents.
One woman even said to me in a letter she wrote me years after her having put her child up for adoption (in fact, it was 12 years after) that she was grateful to my mother for talking her OUT of having an abortion. That at the time of the letter she was happily married and had children.
I know so many people who are adopted. As far as I know every single one of them was grateful that their birth mother didn't abort them. I've had a few even tell me they were grateful they hadn't been aborted.
I thank God for these people and I would thank the birth mothers (if I knew them all) for having them. If it wasn't for adoption, I wouldn't know these people.
I'm not saying it was easy for any of these people, but I am saying it was a self-LESS, loving, BEAUTIFUL sacrifice on their parts and I am so grateful they had the courage to do so.
I know many people who are willing and have been there for birth mothers. There's a ton of people out there who are willing to support and encourage women with going through pregnancy, adoption and even people who help with single moms.
There is pro-life help out there for birth mothers and women. They just have to be willing to accept the love and help these people are willing to give.Posted by: Mother In Texas at July 1, 2010 11:48 PM
Stuff it Megan!!!
I worked with unwed teen mothers for seven years at a shelter in Times Square. We arranged for medicaid, housing, food stamps, welfare WIC, etc. I helped start a life skills training program for them.
Your best talent seems to be advocating the killing of babies. You like to talk a good game for liberals, but we see so precious few of them at CPC's.
Women CAN have it all, and should if they want to. But when they get pregnant the timeline needs to change. My best college students, consistently the best, are the women who have children. They don't waste time and money, and get far more out of their courses than the girls and guys stuck in extended adolescence.
Finally, to address the pro-abort contention that we pro-lifers need to be responsible for these babies cradle-to-grave. That's a load of bull. We help these women and men get on their feet, and even help with their educational/vocational training, but it robs people of their dignity to suggest that they be forever dependent on the largesse of others. They can, and do, grow up. Much to the chagrin of the pro-aborts.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at July 1, 2010 11:53 PM
Finding one completely unknown person on twitter and deciding to use it for an anti-abortion cause is just as ridiculous as her baking those cookies. Was it an ugly and inhumane thing to suggest? ABSOLUTELY. But even if she's 30, her sense of so-called 'humor' has little to do with the actual argument. This young woman has obviously never had an abortion- no one who had would joke about it this way. The women who end up getting them aren't always prostitutes, 'sluts' who spread their legs for anyone, or even simply careless young girls who don't know better.
We have a society that teaches men that manliness is gained through sexual conquest, and teaches women that femininity is gained through desirability. Look at the cover of any magazine, at any TV show. That notion of being desired is what leads girls into giving into boys in their sexual pursuits. We can't blame the children- but as someone working for the state under WIC, I can tell you that the majority of 'women' we see are middle-school and high-school girls. They aren't ready to be mothers any more than any boy of 15 is ready to be a father. We (as a society) place a heavy burden on them all. And it's generally the parents who support having the abortion....I'm not saying I agree with that. The girls I see are the ones who have opted to have the baby. I'm saying that we shouldn't condemn those who support abortion for the time being, because they make a valid point in that: if there were better educational standards and methods, fewer young girls would need to face that choice. You can't support a system where men are taught to HAVE sex as a measure of masculinity, and the girls are taught to BE desirable, without any recourse in terms of education. This abstinence program simply isn't enough.
Not just 'not enough'- but it isn't worthwhile because it supports ignorance about sex over protective knowledge. We need to teach young people how to protect themselves, why they shouldn't have sex- but also the safest way if it happens. Which means if a woman/girl is raped, she should have confidence in her immediate medical care and the aid of a therapist. I appreciate that there are people now who are the product of rapes. What I'm saying is, how much better would the world be if young people were taught how to prevent pregnancy, and then, if it happened anyway (particularly through coercion or rape) those young mothers were aided and guided through the difficulties they face. We don't have assistance like that now...so I have a hard time looking down upon the girls and women who have had abortions when I know that the alternatives are grim.
And to those of you who suggest adoption or foster care- there's another cultural standard we need to change. Everyone wants their own child, their own genetic legacy. The majority of children DON'T get adopted. The majority of children in foster care- DON'T find homes. And at worse, they are physically, psychologically, and even sexually abused. We need to help people by offering REAL alternatives- not condemning them, but by actually helping them see a light at the end of the tunnel. God doesn't want abortion illegal anymore than he meant for that apple tree to be impossible to reach. He wants people to make the right choices....and that choice means education so that certain situations won't happen, and understanding, and real care- so that if those bad situations happen, even if abortion were available, no one would feel the need to do it.
I only see people here denouncing a bad joke made by a 'nobody'... how does that improve the situation?Posted by: Mel at July 2, 2010 12:58 AM
Someone said that they don't understand why the right to get knocked up and 'kill' (their word) an unborn baby is a right women should have. I'll tell you- because the right to knock someone up and either not care (by denying) or 'kill' the baby- by convincing the girl she should just abort because it's inconvenient for them - is a right that men always have. Men don't just 'get' to knock up prostitutes and whores...they 'get' to lie and knock-up young girls who only want affection. And usually are applauded for it. Women shouldn't get knocked-up once by mistake- but men should knock-up multiple females and it's an achievement. You can't leave the blame on one party...Posted by: Rob at July 2, 2010 1:17 AM
This kinda puts a dent in that whole 'every woman agonizes over the decision to have an abortion' canard.
Obviously, some don't. Some women are disturbed enough or heartless enough (or both) to make fun of the violence of abortion.
Next time I hear someone whine about how 'difficult the decision was', I'll make sure to remember this gross example.Posted by: Mary Ann at July 2, 2010 2:28 AM
Posted by: Rob at July 2, 2010 1:17 AM
If that is your excuse for sleeping around - it's pretty lame.
What does everything you said have to do with the humanity of the child? Or the deliberate killing of that child via abortion?
Human rights are intrinsic - they come as part of your being a human. Foremost among those rights is life, because without it, no other right matters.
Good morning Rob,
Your mom and dad must be so proud of your attitude towards women!
But do they know you were on their computer at all hours of the night?
Your mom just called. Time for breakfast. Your poptarts are ready.Posted by: carla at July 2, 2010 7:35 AM
Posted by: Megan at July 1, 2010 6:40 PM
Pain over adoption choice? My sister had a baby at 18 and gave her up for adoption. She got her undergraduate and then graduate degree, got married to a wonderful man who loves her more than life itself, and has more beautiful daughters. She has never regretted her decision to give her first daughter to a family who would love her and care for her they way she could not at the time.Posted by: Kristen at July 2, 2010 9:50 AM
The adoption and foster care system is not perfect, this is true, however, abortion doesn't improve those things.
What improves those things is education, loving and giving people and compassion. That is what will improve those things NOT abortion.
How do I know this? Well, let's see...from watching my parents work with the adoption agency for so long.
Talking with people I know (family, friends and relatives) who are adopted.
Knowing the work my dad does with educating on NFP and that type of work.
Seeing things like the results of the work done by Foundation For Life (http://www.foundation-for-life.net/ ). I know people who volunteer their time and help out there.
So, like I said, things get improved through love, compassion and education NOT abortion. But it takes time, people being charitable and people willing to give of themselves. For some it's easier to give than others, but prayer is always a help...and it doesn't cost anything but a few minutes of time (which in all honesty you can pray anywhere, so there you go).
The adoption foster care system troubles is an excuse not to try and not to make the effort.Posted by: Mother In Texas at July 2, 2010 11:38 AM
So many things to address...
Pregnant girls don't have assistance? Of course they do. Have you looked in the phone book? Called churches and charities?
Do you feel we shouldn't condemn murder because the world isn't perfect and people are going to murder anyway?
Abstinence is the best way to prevent unwanted pregnancy. (Too bad we don't expect our girls and boys to listen when we tell them that.)
"God doesn't want abortion illegal anymore than he meant for that apple tree to be impossible to reach. He wants people to make the right choices....and that choice means education so that certain situations won't happen, and understanding, and real care- so that if those bad situations happen, even if abortion were available, no one would feel the need to do it."
You must be confusing choice and free will in the bible. God gave us free will to hopefully make the good choices, not to condone to bad choices or trick us into doing evil. He gave us the rule that "thou shall not kill" to guide us to live a good life. Even without any knowledge of the Bible, a person instinctively knows that killing another person is wrong, correct?Posted by: Janet at July 2, 2010 1:06 PM
"You can't support a system where men are taught to HAVE sex as a measure of masculinity, and the girls are taught to BE desirable, without any recourse in terms of education. This abstinence program simply isn't enough."
I agree with you here. I wonder, is your school district teaching abstinence only? It's very rare that a school will not teach more than "jusr say no". You fail to mention that parents are the primary teachers of their children, and IMHO, they need to be reminded this before every sex ed program begins. Constantly! If they are too afraid to tell their children about sex, they'd better find an uncle or aunt or big bro or sis who will do a thorough job of it. We can make excuses for abortion, just like we can for murder, but do we ever condone murder? Well perhaps in self-defense. There's never a good excuse for killing an innocent baby, or person for that matter.Posted by: Janet at July 2, 2010 1:16 PM
Janet, that is an excellent post. I think G. K. Chesterton said it well: "Having the right to do something is not at all the same as being right in doing it."
It seems that a lot of pro-abortion advocates feel abortion should be AVAILABLE, even if it's not a GOOD thing. That doesn't make any sense at all.
They seem to think, well, if the pro-life (Oh, I'm sorry "anti-choice" *SNORT LAUGH*) community did more to help, then women wouldn't have to face this "tough decision"....but first of all, it is not only the pro-life community's duty to help women in crisis pregnancies, it is EVERYONE'S duty to help women. Instead of finding out what drives women to make this "choice," and eliminating those problems, they just want abortion to be available at any time, at whatever cost. If it's such a "sad" thing, then why aren't they trying to stop it? Some don't think it's sad at all (see: fetal cookie baker), but most people realize that abortion is ugly and not something to be taken lightly.
Just because we have the ABILITY to choose something does not mean we have the RIGHT to choose something. Nancy Pelosi's ridiculous statement about "free will" shows just how ignorant she is about theology. Though I'm agnostic, a lot of what I studied stayed in my brain. I do recognize the difference between freedom and license. Free will means we can choose to do right, or choose to do wrong. It does not mean we have the right to choose whatever we want.
And the whole "what's wrong for you might be right for me" argument doesn't hold water. If we really believed that, then why do we condemn murderers and thieves? Why raise taxes on cigarettes and have a legal drinking age? No matter how pro-aborts try, they cannot get beyond slogans or excuses.Posted by: MaryLee at July 2, 2010 1:22 PM
J.Ct I'm pro choice and would NEVER THINK of doing this! Just tasteless. And then why is she pro choice? This just doesn't add up...Posted by: Kkrzy at July 2, 2010 3:54 PM
Just ask post-abortive women to eat one of those cookies and note her reaction!
Some of the most active* pro-life women I know, are post-abortive.
* ie Side walk counselors who for years stand in the rain,snow,heat,and cold to save babies.Also take much abuse, from the accomplices who murder by their actions, at the mills.
just some thoughts.......JohnPosted by: John at July 2, 2010 5:16 PM
Great. Maybe motherhood should be a prerequisite for becoming a student.
And I know plenty of liberals whose on-the-ground social service work helps women get on their feet and become the best mothers possible. My own father was a grant writer for a women's shelter in my hometown; maybe I got my feminist sensibilities from him. But you're right, liberals don't affiliate themselves with CPCs. We don't believe in moralizing, evangelizing, or manipulating freaked out girls to serve an anti-abortion agenda. We also aren't so self-enamored that we refer to a just redistribution of resources as our "largesse." Life's tough for everybody, but it's certainly easier if you weren't born in one of our fine nation's crumbling inner cities. But I guess the poor are poor because they're stuck in perpetual adolescence.Posted by: Megan at July 3, 2010 10:03 AM
Yeah, Megan, this is what this is about "the poor." Count on pro-aborts to keep changing the focus.
First of all, what pro-aborts want is all access to abortion at all times, for whatever reason.
Second of all, we all know that Margaret Sanger was a racist and a Nazi sympathizer, so it would make sense that pro-aborts would be more than happy to keep killing off those poor inner-city unborn babies.
And lastly, I'm a liberal. I'm as liberal as they come. I'm only considered NOT liberal by pro-aborts because the ONLY thing I don't believe in is abortion. I was a pro-abort like you. It wasn't religion that changed my mind (I don't believe in it), and it wasn't marches. It was research, and it was being honest with myself. It was a hard truth--admitting how awful abortion is was an inconvenience for me, but the truth is the truth. Abortion is an injustice.
Instead of trying to educate and uplift those who are less fortunate, it seems pro-aborts want to keep things status quo.
Instead of looking at other options aside from abortion, it seems pro-aborts just want abortion to be the ONLY choice.
You are spending enormous amounts energy you spend trying to justify something that can never be justified. You're obviously an intelligent person. You might want to use that intelligence to make this world a just place, not a place where violence and death is the answer to every single question. Abortion is the reason there is no peace in this world. If a mother can kill her child--indeed, is told it is her RIGHT to kill her child--then what hope is there for anyone, anywhere? If abortion isn't wrong, then NOTHING is wrong.Posted by: MaryLee at July 3, 2010 4:50 PM
Dear all: Excuse my typos....I'm typing way too fast! Running out the door to celebrate...Happy Fourth of July!Posted by: MaryLee at July 3, 2010 4:52 PM
So....can't a woman tell a CPC counselor that she ISN'T interested in a morality lesson if she doesn't care to hear it? She has a brain and a voice. All she has to do is listen and leave if it's not for her. There's no need to make all CPC workers out to be crackpots. The last thing a CPC worker wants to do is make a woman not feel welcome when it is she they are there for.
You're just wrong about CPC's having an "AGENDA". Agendas are for political groups mostly. Abortion is political only because the pro-aborts made it so and the Democratic Party feeds on abortion. (Look at the history of Roe v. Wade.) CPC's are staffed with everyday women and men helping everyday women and men who may want to avoid aborting their child. There's no money in it for them. They do it out of love. LOVE. LOVE. LOVE.
It sounds like your father was a compassionate man. I doubt he believed that the majority of the women he met would have been happier without their children.
Posted by: Janet
at July 3, 2010 5:08 PM
Just add a drop of red food coloring to a glass of milk and the sacrament will be complete.
"femisogynist" holy communion!Posted by: Tommy R at July 3, 2010 5:09 PM
Posted by: MaryLee at July 2, 2010 1:22 PM
Happy Independence Day to everyone!Posted by: Janet at July 3, 2010 5:10 PM
Fetus Cookie Cutter
You can buy one online...
Note the really sick comments at this site.Posted by: Tommy R at July 3, 2010 8:19 PM
Hope you have a Happy 4th of July!! It is my husband's birthday too so my children love the carnival, parade and fireworks to help Daddy celebrate!
You have been on my mind a lot lately. Just wanted you to know.
Ha, thanks Carla, and happy birthday to your husband. It sounds like a beautiful day. Are you kids home for the whole summer, or is there camp (reprieve for you??) around the corner?
My sister and I are back in our hometown for a few days visiting our parents. As usual, we're fighting over kitchen space and the newspaper--I've missed it. Tomorrow night I'm going to visit my crazy old high school track coach, who is expecting a baby in August. I need to come up with a gift. I've already considered buying her a pair of baby track flats, but I'm sure she's already ordered them custom-made from Nike. I sincerely hope her son dreams of running the mile from day one--heaven forbid he pursue Shakespearean theatre or jazzercise or some other interest instead.
Any suggestions?Posted by: Megan at July 4, 2010 10:01 PM
Kiddoes are done with summer school. Eldest says no to camp and my others are too young for camp. :) We shall tough it out swimming and playing until fall. ha
I say buy a huge basket of stuff for the mom!! :)
A gift certificate for a massage, bath stuff, candles, lotion. I always appreciated that as my babies spit up all over the outfits everyone bought.
But you had best find all of the baby track stuff you can find, right?? Depending on what city/state you live in I would also go for your beloved sports team gear.
I ran track too.Posted by: carla at July 4, 2010 10:29 PM
I've gone to dinners hosted by Foundation For Life and women get up there and thank the people there for giving their money to Foundation For Life so they had a place to go for help.
At one of the dinners my Dad estimated around 800 people present. (the proceeds go to help pay for the services Foundation For Life provides these women and their babies).
These women were people who were genuninely grateful for places like Foundation For Life (which is like a CPC, they have all kinds of things available for women).Posted by: Mother In Texas at July 5, 2010 1:33 AM
please. it's no worse than "eat of my flesh, drink of my blood".Posted by: Jenn at July 5, 2010 5:38 AM
please. it's no worse than "eat of my flesh, drink of my blood".Posted by: Jenn at July 5, 2010 5:38 AM
You see no difference in a symbolic act of faithful believers and a disgusting fetus cookie made by some attention seeking pro abort??
Do tell.Posted by: carla at July 5, 2010 6:54 AM
Would you say that you've provided us with a careful reading of the text, taking into account the entire context of what Jesus is saying as well as the historical and traditional understanding of his words in order to make your case that Jesus is saying something no worse than baking cooking of bloody fetuses which have been aborted in order to mock those who oppose abortion?Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 5, 2010 8:46 AM
"please. it's no worse than "eat of my flesh, drink of my blood".
^I do a lot of Catholic-bashing on this site, but that is a frigging stupid comparison.Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 5, 2010 9:37 AM
I am not Catholic but so many of my beloved friends here on this site are Catholic. Please stop Catholic bashing. Please and thank you.
Perfect! I'm going to head to Bath & Body Works to see what I can find.
Which event?Posted by: Megan at July 5, 2010 10:58 AM
Mile relay. Ugh.
Right now I am training for a triathlon. It is held near the date of my abortion. September 5th. It will be 20 years this year since then and I will be raising funds for our Pregnancy Resource Center. I raised $1200 last year!
(training sux. couldn't be that I am almost 45 years old though could it?? nah)
Triathlon again? You go girl!
(Sept. 5 will be Mother Teresa's feast day soon when she is proclaimed a saint!)Posted by: Janet at July 5, 2010 12:27 PM
Perhaps it might help if you knew a wee bit of early Church history. Many Romans had heard of the blood being sacrificed, but these folks mistakenly thought newborn babes were being slaughtered at this new cult's (Christian) ceremonies. Therefore feeding such reprobates to the lions was quid pro quo.
Actually the charge to "drink My blood" was made by Jesus Himself on several occasions. For people pf Jesus' time, it was thought that blood carried life. So Jesus was offering His Life, so that all humans might become 'One' in Him.
What we find hard-to-understand is the sacrificial aspect of this drinking. Just as the fireman ran into the Twin Towers at 9/11, Jesus offered His Blood(Life) as real drink, to those dead/dying from thirst/emptiness.
So the only similarity (between the two) MAY be in the color red.
Carla really is quite young!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Posted by: John McDonell at July 5, 2010 12:44 PM
Love you, Janet! Every year I try to do something positive and life affirming on September 5th.
Thank you, John!! :)Posted by: carla at July 5, 2010 1:13 PM
I might feel more entitled to Catholic-bash because I am Catholic, or at least baptized and raised thay way. It's always easier to insult one of your own.
I'll try to keep it fair and balanced, though.Posted by: Ashley Herzog at July 5, 2010 1:50 PM
I kinda like the way Fr. Guttierez said it: he found to use of the word 'Catholic' strange. The word means 'universal' and there was little doubt that they were few in numbers in a sea of humanity of all faiths. Yet these same folks insisted on this word 'catholic'.
The only way the people used this word is if they also believed they were at the very core of human experience.Posted by: John McDonell at July 5, 2010 3:04 PM
It's been my experience that sometimes former Catholics can be the worst bashers because they think just because they were raised Catholic they know it all, when in fact that don't always UNDERSTAND it all. (even some practicing Catholics don't understand it all or know it all).
I'm a Cradle Roman Catholic and still practicing. I'm still learning and I learn every day. I ask a lot of questions and I read, too. This is over 30 years of experiencing the Catholic Church and I'm still learning and growing.Posted by: Mother In Texas at July 5, 2010 5:19 PM