Stupak supported the Stupak Amendment before he opposed it and opposed the Nelson Amendment before he supported it

bart stupak press conference executive order.jpgBy almost all accounts the executive order crafted yesterday to appease House Democrat pro-lifers was nothing more than an affirmation of the Nelson Amendment Congressman Stupak (pictured right at a press conference touting the order) had opposed until yesterday. For instance, Planned Parenthood's Cecile Richards wrote in a press release...

Nonetheless, we regret that a pro-choice president of a pro-choice nation was forced to sign an Executive Order that further codifies the proposed anti-choice language in the health care reform bill, originally proposed by Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska.

Also by most accounts the executive order will be legally worth about as much as the paper it is printed on. Richards called it "a symbolic gesture," while gloating that the just passed healthcare plan would "significantly increase access to reproductive health care." Believe me, Richards knows more about the minutiae of this legislation than Stupak. I'm confident her people helped write it.

Stupak today acknowledged at this point he wasn't positive all Americans wouldn't be forced to pay an abortion tax, even with the executive order. Following is the 1st cable interview Stupak gave after the vote yesterday, to Fox's Megyn Kelly. She asked him about this tax (i.e., "exchanges") at about 4:42. After giving muddled answers Stupak finally said at about 6:30 he's not sure about them:

That provision that you speak of, and the executive order also mentions it, doesn't go into effect until 2014, and as the colloquy on the floor was last night with Chairman Waxman, we're gonna still have further discussion on this. We basically have about 4 years yet to address this aspect of the bill on the exchanges.

Last night there was a very strange moment. It freaked me out, actually. Leading up to it, according to CNN:

Even during the final hours of debating the bill, Republicans tried to derail the bill over abortion language. After the House voted for the Senate bill, Republicans introduced a motion that sought to send the bill back to committee and amend its abortion language. The motion failed.

As it turned out, the Republicans' motion included strict abortion language that Stupak himself had written in the fall and was unable to secure in this bill.

You may have heard this referred to as a "motion to recommit." Had the same # of Democrats voted for the Stupak Amendment last night as did in November (which, with Republicans passed 240-194), it would have sunk the healthcare bill in its current form.

At this point Stupak took to the floor to implore members to vote against his very own amendment...

I was shocked not just by Stupak's tone but his rhetoric. When he introduced the Stupak Amendment it was on principle. But when Republicans did, it was political chicanery. And it is the Democrats who are the defenders or preborn life? That's crazy talk, and Stupak knows it. Or he did know it until being brainwashed over the past couple days.

This motion does not promote life. It is the Democrats who have stood up for the principle of no public funding for abortions. It is Democrats through the President's executive order that ensures the sanctity of life is protected because all life is precious and all life should be honored.

Democrats guarantee all life of the unborn to the last breath of a senior citizen is respected, for the unborn child and his or her mother will finally have pre- and postnatal care under this bill....

We stand for the American people! We stand up for life! Vote "no" on this motion to recommit....

Crazy talk. How quickly Stupak went to the dark side. Thanks in large part to Stupak's encouragement to oppose it, the Stupak Amendment failed last night 199 to 232.

Bottom line: Bart Stupak supported the Stupak Amendment before he opposed it and opposed the the Nelson Amendment before he supported it.

[Photo via the Associated Press]


Comments:

Stupak let down his guard and turned his neck for one minute and Pelosi and Obama bit into it. Now he's infected too...

Posted by: Sydney M. at March 22, 2010 5:49 PM


Jill,

I thought the same things last night as I watched Stupak. It was shocking to me.

Here's my take:
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=35889

Posted by: Jennifer at March 22, 2010 5:53 PM


Good piece, Jennifer. I really liked this:

Is there anyone who will simply stand for LIFE, period, no matter the cost, no matter the fallout, no matter the sweet deal they're offered? When it's not politically expedient to do so, is there anyone who will not compromise?

It's good to remember that the only man who ever lived that way was our Savior. In Him, there is honor without compromise; in Him there is no risk of betrayal; in Him there is steadfast hope; in Him, there is LIFE.

Amen.

Posted by: Jill Stanek Author Profile Page at March 22, 2010 5:59 PM


I guess we will see what and airport (or 30 pieces of silver) will reap these days.

Posted by: LB at March 22, 2010 7:19 PM


I guess we will see what an airport (or 30 pieces of silver) will reap these days.

Posted by: LB at March 22, 2010 7:20 PM


I still cannot believe what has happened. I feel like I just found out my husband is sleeping with my best friend. I not only believed him but put him up as a man of principle and called for prayer for his strength and planned to go and campaign for him. How could I am still in shock.

Posted by: Susie at March 22, 2010 7:58 PM


good commentary by Wesley J Smith

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/secondhandsmoke/2010/03/22/obamacare-stupak-gamesmanship-needlessly-poured-salt-in-pro-lifers-wounds/

Posted by: Julie Culshaw at March 22, 2010 8:11 PM


How in the world did the video of Stupak's town meeting in Cheboygan, MI sit on Youtube for four and a half months (with only four comments and probably not many more viewers)??!!!

How is it that pro-lifers missed this vital information? Stupak's fake pro-life views were there in video form since Oct 29, 2009. I suppose if any good came of this, the abortion issue came to the fore of national debate..... How unfortunate that this battle has just begun...

Posted by: Janet at March 22, 2010 8:29 PM


Is it completely lost on people that there was no chance republicans could stop this, and that it was pro life democrats who stood and got WAY more than we could have ever expected a year ago? Do you really want to cut off, ridicule, and insult an entire arm of our human rights movement because they belong to that "other" party? Really? How many of you celebrated pro abortion Scott Brown's win in Massachusetts? Does this make you "traitors" and "hypocrites" too? Does millions of pregnant women and young children with no health insurance strike any of you as being a pro life stance? If you want to narrow the movement into the dead end street of the partisan war, I daresay it will be us that will be looking back soon and wonder what the hell we were doing. This is about winning the hearts and minds of the CENTER that decide all our elections now, folks. You trash democrats for life at the peril of the greater good of success at the polls. Obama won by courting the center. We will do the same if only we try. This vitriol against allies who did their best is NOT helping! The feds have been supporting PP for years. Is this accounting trick really that much worse? I;m disappointed too, but I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater - and throw democrats for life under the bus. The glass is 3/4 full here, folks.

Posted by: Sean at March 22, 2010 9:03 PM


No one should feel foolish in supporting what we thought was our best chance. If we were of the world we may have seen through the ruse. Stupak has created his own pathetic end; he is now seen by everyone as someone utterly incapable of being believed or trusted. He has ruined his own career and those who blindly followed. And he has singlehandedly and permanently removed any remaining doubts as to if the Democratic party could ever be seen again as balanced on the question of life.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Posted by: Jerry at March 22, 2010 9:06 PM


"Obama won by courting the center."

Sean,
Seriously. The "center"? Of what?

Posted by: Janet at March 22, 2010 9:13 PM


Tes, 'the center.' Obma sold himself as a mainstream Christian, centrist Democrat, who would continue the war in Afghanistan and end he recession by giving cash to the banks and AIG!

He's not going to trash Don't Ask Don't Tell. He won't try to repeal the Patriot Act or break-up the DHS (or even get rid of the ridiculous 5-color alert system). He won't pursue charges against Bush and Cheney. And he won't end the NSA Domestic Spying program. I'd say that's centrist. So he knows a few leftists. Big whoop. So did Clinton.

Posted by: Dhalgren at March 22, 2010 9:30 PM


The highest value prisoner at Guantanamo Bay just got sentenced innocent and no evidence can be used against him in a US civilian court. What say our Commander and Theif and Attorney General Holder about this. They had promised the American people this would not happen. This guy was responsible for recruiting Mohammad Atta and the sleeper cell that attacked us from Germany on 9/l1. And the Obama kool-aid drinkers will say its no big deal, America deserved it anyway. 9/11 was
our fault.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 22, 2010 10:40 PM


Fun with Stupak, or Pick Your Own “Pro-life” Turncoat Congressman

Get your video cameras ready for some theatrics.

Purchase 30 pieces of silver (rounds or coins) from your favorite metals dealer. Do it as an individual or group. (300-400 bucks). Donate it to a Crisis Pregnancy Center or other, willing, pro-life, charitable beneficiary, to use as a hedge against inflation. They can sell off when they need to, and use it for operating expenses. It’s a nice gift which can be given in the name of the one you’d like to irritate.

Send a photo of the silver, a receipt and a bill to your favorite turncoat, bogus ‘ pro-life’ politician.

Upload a video record of the fun to the internet and send a copy to your political pal with that receipt.

(Checking with a dealer today, Silver rounds were at $16.97. Purchasing price would be $17.97 apiece. The market value changes a good deal from day to day.)

Pass this idea freely to some fun loving future film stars. It's copied on my blog

Posted by: Pharmer at March 22, 2010 10:42 PM


My whole take on Stupak's vicious turnabout: He was running an interference operation as political cover designed to take the pressure off pro-life heavy district reps. Why? The House version would not be approved in the Senate with the amendment - but all those who voted for the Stupak amendment could say - see, we supported pro-life principles. If you control the champion, you control the outcome. This reduces political risk. He emphasized this particular point in his response.

The whole thing seems to be a scam - with the XO as a means of allowing the turncoat to come in from the cold appearing to have collapsed under pressure.

The whiplash remarks against his own legislation are at least worthy of a Senate investigation into such a turnabout. I'm sure the American public would like to discover if there was any collusion.

The video is rather instructive, because it hints that the Amendment was really a matter of political expediency.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault at March 22, 2010 10:44 PM


I was duped.

I fell for it.

I thought he was genuine, a man of principle, character and integrity.

I believed him.

I believed what he said.

I thought he demonstrated courage in the face of adversity.

I thought he had backbone.

I thought he was strong.

In the end, he was weak.

In the end, he really didn't care about defending innocent children.

In the end, he valued the acceptance and esteem of the leadership of his political party, BO and Nancy, more than pleasing His Lord and Savior.

To hear him directly contradict what he so passionately fought for only days before...

was pathetic and disgusting.

The once honorable State Trooper, a principled man of courage and integrity, defender of the weak and innocent-

has been corrupted by a liberal entitlement mind set, bribery and the desire to please men.

He has bought and paid for his health insurance entitlement program, $700K in pork for his district, and favor with purveyors of child genocide, BO and the Botox Queen, with the blood of God's innocent children.

He traded babies lives in exchange for health insurance for the indigent.

In the Battle for Life, he sold out. He has proven himself to be a liar and a traitor.

He pretended to be someone he wasn't.

God is Merciful, but He is also Just.

I pray this action can be corrected or reversed before more innocent lives are lost; before God exacts His vengence on America for the thousands of innocent children whose blood is shed, everyday.

Posted by: Ed at March 22, 2010 11:07 PM


On one priests blog he compared Stupak's move to Judas' Kiss. Very accurate assessment in my opinion. If only Stupak could reflect on that during the upcoming holy Week.

Posted by: Michael at March 22, 2010 11:11 PM


Sorry about duplicate posts. I got an error message first time I posted.

Posted by: pharmer at March 22, 2010 11:14 PM


"So he knows a few leftists. Big whoop."
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 22, 2010 9:30 PM

Please explain something to me, Dhalgren. Is Obama a socialist or a manipulator? Internet archives document his membership in the New Party before it went defunct. Did he subscribe to their neomarxist agenda or did he misrepresent himself to get votes?

Posted by: Fed Up at March 22, 2010 11:22 PM


Stupak has the gang mentality of Obama and Rahmbo.
I knew Obama cause I was from Chicago and I had seen his ties to Planned Parenthood and his opposition to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act etc. Then I come to this blog and find out the Obama's used to hold fundraisers to keep partial-birth abortion legal until SCOTUS made it illegal. What does that tell you about a person's character. They were willing to support people in their right to let people behave in such barbaric ways when there was no medical need.

I didn't know Stupak so I fell for him. It makes me realize how it was possible for so many Americans to get sucker punched into voting for Obama. He started his campaign late and was never really asked any tough questions about all those things above that poimnt to his complete disregard for life. And America will get to see another great performance from him when he signs the executive order feigning to be a defender of life. Obama is nightmare and we really, realy, really, really need to stop him. Hello America if you are out there. Know the truth as you watch the performance amd don't get sucker punched by Obama when he signs that Executive Order. If you want to know who a person is, look at what theyv'e done. Look at Acorn. They just got banned from Ohio and now they are dissoliging due to corruption and changing their name so they can come back and do frauduleny voting for Obama again. He will try and give illegals amnesty so they all vote for him next election...and if it weren't for Scott Brown, we couldn't stop him.

Obama and the Democratic control of our country is scary dangerous to the culture of life and to our Republic. We couldn't have a worse president and we have the halls of congress packed with Dumbocrat magorities. One thing they are good at, they are really good liars. If you don't know their past they can completely con you.

Even after what Stupak did he can look you in the eye and say. Their is still public funding of abortion in this bill but I stood on principle because they told me we could work out the details later. And he kept repeating that the executive order was law, as if he didn't know Sebellius was going to fund Planned APrenthood abortuaries all over the US and all Planned Parenthood has to do is some extra bookkeeping. Not even Stupak could be that Stupid.

If you want to know who somebody is, don't listen to what they say, look at what theyve done. Sound THE ALARM. The wolves are watching over the sheep

Posted by: truthseeker at March 23, 2010 12:12 AM


Did everybody know were gonna have an extra line on our W2's next year. Your employer will have to report to the IRS the value of the insurance plan you ahve so that they can TAX you. What? That's right, tax you. And you don't have to make $250,000 a year to get hit with this tax. Wait a minute. I thought Obam said I was gonna get a tax break. And you say he is going to hire 16,700 new IRS employees to fine me or throw me in jail for six months if I don't buy Obamacare. I say, Give me liberty or GIve me death. America is the home of the brave and the land of the free and this generation is being called to save the Republic. We need to find the swing districts and run truly conservative candidates and the rest will take care of itself. Till November just say "HELL NO".

Posted by: truthseeker at March 23, 2010 12:25 AM


Kitty Werthmann emigrated to the United States from Austria in the 1950s. She has written about her experience of seven years under German rule from 1938 to 1945.

by Kitty Werthman

I am an eyewitness to history. I can tell you that Hitler did not take Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history. We elected him by a landslide - 98% of the vote. I've never read that in any American publications. Everyone thinks Hitler just rolled in with his tanks and took Austria by force.

In 1938, Austria was in deep Depression. Nearly one-third of our workforce was unemployed. We had 25% inflation and 25% bank loan interest rates. Farmers and business people were declaring bankruptcy daily. Young people were going from house to house begging for food. Not that they didn't want to work; there simply weren't any jobs. My mother was a Christian woman and believed in helping people in need. Every day we cooked a big kettle of soup and baked bread to feed those poor, hungry people - about 30 daily.

The Communist Party and the National Socialist Party were fighting each other. Blocks and blocks of cities like Vienna, Linz, and Graz were destroyed. The people became desperate and petitioned the government to let them decide what kind of government they wanted.

We looked to our neighbor on the north, Germany, where Hitler had been in power since 1933. We had been told that they didn't have unemployment or crime, and they had a high standard of living. Nothing was ever said about persecution of any group - Jewish or otherwise. We were led to believe that everyone was happy. We wanted the same way of life in Austria. We were promised that a vote for Hitler would mean the end of unemployment and help for the family. Hitler also said that businesses would be assisted, and farmers would get their farms back. Ninety-eight percent of the population voted to annex Austria to Germany.

We were overjoyed, and for three days we danced in the streets and had candlelight parades. The new government opened up big field kitchens and everyone was fed.

After the election, German officials were appointed, and like a miracle, we suddenly had law and order. Three or four weeks later, everyone was employed. The government made sure that a lot of work was created through the Public Work Service.

Hitler decided we should have equal rights for women. Before this, it was a custom that married Austrian women did not work outside the home. An able-bodied husband would be looked down on if he couldn't support his family.

Hitler Targets Education-Eliminates Religious Instruction for Children:

Our education was nationalized. I attended a very good public school. The population was predominantly Catholic, so we had religion in our schools. The day we elected Hitler (March 13, 1938), I walked into my schoolroom to find the crucifix replaced by Hitler's picture hanging next to a Nazi flag. Our teacher, a very devout woman, stood up and told the class we wouldn't pray or have religion anymore. Instead, we sang "Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles," and had physical education.

Sunday became National Youth Day with compulsory attendance. Parents were not pleased about the sudden change in curriculum. They were told that if they did not send us, they would receive a stiff letter of warning the first time. The second time they would be fined the equivalent of $300, and the third time they would be subject to jail. The first two hours consisted of political indoctrination. The rest of the day we had sports. As time went along, we loved it. Oh, we had so much fun and got our sports equipment free. We would go home and gleefully tell our parents about the wonderful time we had.

My mother was very unhappy. When the next term started, she took me out of public school and put me in a convent. I told her she couldn't do that and she told me that someday when I grew up, I would be grateful. There was a very good curriculum, but hardly any fun - no sports, and no political indoctrination. I hated it at first but felt I could tolerate it. Every once in a while, on holidays, I went home. I would go back to my old friends and ask what was going on and what they were doing. Their loose lifestyle was very alarming to me. They lived without religion. By that time unwed mothers were glorified for having a baby for Hitler. It seemed strange to me that our society changed so suddenly. As time went along, I realized what a great deed my mother did so that I wasn't exposed to that kind of humanistic philosophy.

Equal Rights Hits Home

In 1939, the war started and a food bank was established. All food was rationed and could only be purchased using food stamps. At the same time, a full-employment law was passed which meant if you didn't work, you didn't get a ration card, and if you didn't have a card, you starved to death. Women who stayed home to raise their families didn't have any marketable skills and often had to take jobs more suited for men.

Soon after this, the draft was implemented. It was compulsory for young people, male and female, to give one year to the labor corps. During the day, the girls worked on the farms, and at night they returned to their barracks for military training just like the boys. They were trained to be anti-aircraft gunners and participated in the signal corps. After the labor corps, they were not discharged but were used in the front lines. When I go back to Austria to visit my family and friends, most of these women are emotional cripples because they just were not equipped to handle the horrors of combat. Three months before I turned 18, I was severely injured in an air raid attack. I nearly had a leg amputated, so I was spared having to go into the labor corps and into military service.

Hitler Restructured the Family Through Daycare:

When the mothers had to go out into the work force, the government immediately established child care centers. You could take your children ages 4 weeks to school age and leave them there around-the-clock, 7 days a week, under the total care of the government. The state raised a whole generation of children. There were no motherly women to take care of the children, just people highly trained in child psychology. By this time, no one talked about equal rights. We knew we had been had.

Health Care and Small Business choked by Government Controls:

Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna... After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything. When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full. If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries.

As for healthcare, our tax rates went up to 80% of our income. Newlyweds immediately received a $1,000 loan from the government to establish a household. We had big programs for families. All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.

We had another agency designed to monitor business. My brother-in-law owned a restaurant that had square tables. Government officials told him he had to replace them with round tables because people might bump themselves on the corners. Then they said he had to have additional bathroom facilities. It was just a small dairy business with a snack bar. He couldn't meet all the demands. Soon, he went out of business. If the government owned the large businesses and not many small ones existed, it could be in control.

We had consumer protection. We were told how to shop and what to buy. Free enterprise was essentially abolished. We had a planning agency specially designed for farmers. The agents would go to the farms, count the live-stock, and then tell the farmers what to produce, and how to produce it.

"Mercy Killing" Redefined:

In 1944, I was a student teacher in a small village in the Alps. The villagers were surrounded by mountain passes which, in the winter, were closed off with snow, causing people to be isolated. So people intermarried and offspring were sometimes retarded. When I arrived, I was told there were 15 mentally retarded adults, but they were all useful and did good manual work. I knew one, named Vincent, very well. He was a janitor of the school. One day I looked out the window and saw Vincent and others getting into a van. I asked my superior where they were going. She said to an institution where the State Health Department would teach them a trade, and to read and write. The families were required to sign papers with a little clause that they could not visit for 6 months. They were told visits would interfere with the program and might cause homesickness.

As time passed, letters started to dribble back saying these people died a natural, merciful death. The villagers were not fooled. We suspected what was happening. Those people left in excellent physical health and all died within 6 months. We called this euthanasia.

The Final Steps - Gun Laws:

Next came gun registration. People were getting injured by guns. Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few) was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law abiding and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms. Not long after-wards, the police said that it was best for everyone to turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it was futile not to comply voluntarily.

No more freedom of speech. Anyone who said something against the government was taken away. We knew many people who were arrested, not only Jews, but also priests and ministers who spoke up.

Totalitarianism didn't come quickly; it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria. Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom.

After World War II, Russian troops occupied Austria. Women were raped, preteen to elderly. The press never wrote about this either. When the Soviets left in 1955, they took everything that they could, dismantling whole factories in the process. They sawed down whole orchards of fruit, and what they couldn't destroy, they burned. We called it "The Burned Earth." Most of the population barricaded themselves in their houses. Women hid in their cellars for 6 weeks as the troops mobilized. Those who couldn't, paid the price. There is a monument in Vienna today, dedicated to those women who were massacred by the Russians. This is an eye witness account.

It's true. Those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity. America Truly is the greatest country in the world. Don't let freedom slip away.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 23, 2010 12:25 AM


Stupak has site dedicated to him... tracking all the posts about him from twitter, and listing all the candidates running against him.
Has an interactive boxing game too! Good fun for armchair pugilists http://www.smashstupak.com/

Posted by: pharmer at March 23, 2010 12:36 AM


Pack it up Stupak! http://www.FreeTheND88.org

Posted by: Project Sycamore at March 23, 2010 1:40 AM


I've been naive enough to be one of stupak's supporters through this whole thing, because I trusted him. I will be donating to his pro-life opponent instead.

And my computer was stuttering when I watched the YouTube or I would have missed his smirk right before the end of the video.

I am sick of politics and am returning to prayer. God can stop this - just for some reason, not right now. Maybe it is a test of faith in God vs congress.

And time will tell whether obama's thugs bribed him, blackmailed him, or if it was a set up all along. Hence the smirk on his face. If he truly is pro-life, how does he plan to live with himself? He looked positively euphoric.

Posted by: sabella at March 23, 2010 4:12 AM


I am a Tea Party member in Brevard County Florida and I am starting a Grass Roots BOYCOT of Union produced goods and services. The Unions made it possible for Obama to bring this bill forward and continue to get payoffs from the Government. Union members with a conscience will join us to get the message out. If you feel as I do that they now have a hand in killing thousands of children help me get this started.

Posted by: Bob Franck at March 23, 2010 6:24 AM


Please explain something to me, Dhalgren. Is Obama a socialist or a manipulator?

Frankly, he's an expert marketer, just like most recent presidents. I wish he would remain a lawyer and college professor, since he was a pretty good teacher on how to start small businesses and grasroot political organizations.

He clearly does not know how to wage political battles. He seems unaware that the Republicans don't want to help him create legislation, but rather destroy him. And I have to think that he regrets letting his ego take him to the White House. For him and his family, there will be a black cloud of death threats and a loss of privacy for the rest of their lives.

As for being a member of the New Party, what does that prove? Obama hasn't suggested a single socialist policy while in office. That was my earlier point. And if his evil plan was to do so, he's certainly taking his sweet time, because he's going to be a one-term president.

When Romney is president, all the wingnuts (like truthseeker) will be able to sigh in relief and forget all about what Glenn Beck said. The Tea Parties will fold. The cries of socialism and government takeovers will cease. And everything will be OK again on Wall Street.

Until the next economic collapse.

Posted by: Dhalgren at March 23, 2010 7:21 AM


Bob Franck,

I agree that the Unions are culpable. But they are only one of several special interest groups that you could point the finger at. For example, there were millions of Catholics/Christians In Name Only that helped elect the most pro-death President in the history of America.

Your efforts may be better applied toward ridding our goverment of corrupt politicians.

Our country has become a cesspool of wickedness and iniquity. From a Christian perspective, Shelley Hundley provides excellent advice on becoming an informed intercessor/activist/change agent here:

(Follow the aforementioned link , then select "Thursday Evening 1 of 2, March 18th, 2010" and go to about the 1:38 minute mark)

Posted by: Ed at March 23, 2010 8:18 AM


I would NEVER EVER vote for Romney!

And the tea party movement won't collapse. Pro life movement is for ALL vulnerable persons: the unborn, elderly and disabled so it will never go away either.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 23, 2010 9:09 AM


Lesson learned from Bart Stupak:

Never give a liberal/progressive/humanist the benefit of the doubt.

Now go slam your thumb in the car door.

And repeat to yourself:

Never give a liberal/progressive/humanist the benefit of the doubt.

'church' is full of secular christians, many of whom are liberal/prgressive/humanists.

They are wolves in wolves clothing. They are not difficult to spot if you know what to look for.

One clue is the long ravenous teeth that are not made for grazing, but the ripping and tearing of human flesh.

Never look a gift horse in the mouth, but give self professing sheep a close dental exam.

Prime example:

B.O., who, by his own estimation, is a committed and devout 'christian'.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at March 23, 2010 10:17 AM


The apostle Paul actually identified one of these 'hideen reefs' by name and warned fellow members of the body of Christ to be aware of and stand aloof from these 'slippery stones'.

It's in the 'booi'.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at March 23, 2010 10:22 AM



Lesson learned from Bart Stupak:
Never give a liberal/progressive/humanist the benefit of the doubt.

I agree...Never! No matter how moderate or pro-life they claim to be.

Their whole mission in life is to disappoint those they claim to represent. They have no true principles. They have no true integrity. They don't truly believe the things they claim to believe in. If they open their mouth, they're lying.

It shouldn't have even taken Stupak to figure this out. History proves this time and time again.

You can't trust a liberal, period. No matter what.

Posted by: bethany Author Profile Page at March 23, 2010 10:24 AM


Dolly,

You are as disengenuine as your are dull, as in lacking good sense.

Your marxist drivels only value is as 'white noise' to drown out the deafening silence when liberal/prgoressive/humanists, like you, are called on to speak the truth.

yor bro ken

Posted by: kbhvac at March 23, 2010 10:30 AM


I must have been right on with my posts last night...the remaining troll named Dhalgren is offended that I would expose Obama for what he has done so that the partial birth abortion loving president Barack Hussin Obama doesn't sucker punch the rest of the USA with a pro-life pretense when he signs the Executive Order.

And I hope Paul Ryan (R) Wis. runs for president. He is conservative and has a degree in Economics and in Polical Science. And Dhalgren, unlike Obama he would release his college records cause he doesn't have the skeletons Obama obviously has. Ryan actually has his own plan (He introduced HR2110 to Congress in May of 2008) to provide for the reform of health care, the Social Security system, and the tax code for individuals and business, and the budget process; and it makes sense! He is only 40 years old.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 23, 2010 10:51 AM


Oh, and Ryan has a 0% NARAL rating and a 100% NRLC rating :)

Posted by: truthseeker at March 23, 2010 10:55 AM


Hey TS, I'm liking Ryan a lot these days too. He was terrific at the bipartisan *cough* health care summit.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 23, 2010 11:25 AM


You cannot trust any of these guys, how sad!

Posted by: Abortion Support at March 23, 2010 11:26 AM


In the 2nd Video of Stupak, he appears to be someone under duress, like someone captured by the enemy in war, and put in front of the cameras to tell everyone that his country is wrong and the enemy is right. It reminds me of video from Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

Posted by: Kyle Smith at March 23, 2010 12:02 PM


I'm with you guys about Ryan. Maybe we have found our next Reagan? I hope so!

Posted by: Elisabeth at March 23, 2010 12:35 PM


I like Ryan too. Sounds like a good guy. Maybe Megyn Kelly for his running mate. Smart lady.

Posted by: Janet at March 23, 2010 12:41 PM


"In the 2nd Video of Stupak, he appears to be someone under duress, like someone captured by the enemy in war, and put in front of the cameras to tell everyone that his country is wrong and the enemy is right."
-----------------------------------------------

Kyle, he WAS under duress from the WH chapter of the Chicago mob...but the difference is that his life nor his family was not in danger.

How can I say that? IF his life or famliy were in any danger, why would he go for a drink afterwards?

It was his political career with the Democrats that were at stake (might even be blackmail for some skeletons that we dont know about, just a thought)...

..but whatever it was, he caved in on his principles and sold his soul to the Devils.

*He could've changed sides OR became an Independent right then and there to keep his principles and integrity and keep Obamacare down...he chose the easy way out...

Posted by: RSD at March 23, 2010 1:48 PM


Oh, and Truthseeker, about that lie regarding Obama releasing the 9/11 recruiter from Guantanamo...

As a survivor of 1 WTC, I am among many who demand justice for 9/11. But it really outrages me to see wingnuts make claims that the current administration is working for the other side, or that some on the administration actually think the USA deserved to be attacked.

I wish that the Obama administration would step-up the hunt for bin Laden, but that's a whole other topic.

Posted by: Dhalgren at March 23, 2010 1:56 PM


That Kitty Werthmann chain e-mail has been shot down over and over and over. A very similar e-mail was sent out in 2007, while Bush was in office. What does that tell you?

Posted by: Dhalgren at March 23, 2010 2:05 PM


Dhalgren, probably you should go to Kitty's next presentation, as she is still doing them, and tell her she is lying.
Something tells me you would not do it, same as the dems won't be showing their own video of tea partiers assailing them, as was claimed, this past weekend.

Posted by: pharmer at March 23, 2010 2:23 PM


Dhalgren...if you are a survivor of 1WTC then why haven't you learned the lesson that life is fragile and precious and you shouldn't kill others?

Posted by: Sydney M. at March 23, 2010 4:03 PM


Nope, I'm thinking Ryan and Bachmann?

Posted by: Elisabeth at March 23, 2010 8:31 PM


Elisabeth,
Sounds good!

Posted by: Janet at March 23, 2010 9:49 PM


Oh, and Truthseeker, about that lie regarding Obama releasing the 9/11 recruiter from Guantanamo...
Posted by: Dhalgren at March 23, 2010 1:56 PM
Troll, I didn't order him released, it was a US Circuit court judge. The terrorists name is El Gharani, google it yourself.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 23, 2010 10:36 PM


(I just discovered this internet article! Ellen)

OBAMA SUPPORTS CHILD ABUSE !

Obama is pro-choice. His party is No. 1 in choosing fast death (by abortion) and slow death (by AIDS). But Obama wouldn't choose this slogan: "Unborn children should have the same right to be born alive that abortionists had!"
And he'd never want folks to Google "Zombietime" and click on "Up Your Alley Fair." (This is Nancy Pelosi's district, and San Francisco mayor Newsom told the cops to NOT arrest anyone exercising the kinky, child-abusing "rights" Obama approves of which are flaunted by totally naked sodomites on public streets in front of children!)
After recovering from the uncensored photos, Yahoo "God to Same-Sexers: Hurry Up" (even Jesus told Judas to hurry up - John 13:27) and "Dangerous Radicals of the Religious Right." See all of this before the "God" named in all 50 US state constitutions exercises His rights and responds with earthquakes, violent storms, and other bad news.
Obama, Pelosi, and their public-porn-protecting collaborators don't want anyone to know what really goes on at those "gay" festivals because the shocking details could ignite and unite the Religious Right like nothing else - which explains why nothing was said about "gay" rights at any of the US Presidential debates!
Incredibly, the unnatural acts which forced God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah (resulting in the Dead Sea Green Party's sudden change of plans!), and which were capital crimes (along with murder) in early America, are now fulfilling the "days of Lot" (Luke 17) Jesus said would happen JUST BEFORE His return as the no-excuses-allowed Supreme Judge.
The same predicted endtime perversion is now being taught to elementary school youngsters as "natural" and even "desirable" by those who ignore Christ's statement that such child abusers should be "drowned in the depth of the sea" (Matt. 18:6)!
You might say that American leaders are now doing a lot to help fulfill the same "days of Lot" - thus doing a lot to help make the Bible even more believable!
Want some more jolts? Google or Yahoo "Obama Avoids Bible Verses," "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," and "David Letterman's Hate, Etc."

(Obama, Pelosi and other world-wreckers did NOT approve of this message!)

Posted by: Ellen at March 24, 2010 1:38 AM


Dhalgren, what say you about this?
A man who was released from the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in December has become a senior Taliban military commander in Afghanistan, U.S. officials said.

Abdul Qayum Zakir was named to replace Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, whom Pakistani security forces captured last month, a Taliban operative told CNN.

A former Pakistani intelligence official, who asked not to be identified because of the sensitive nature of the subject, also confirmed Zakir's appointment.

Zakir was released from U.S. custody on December 2007, U.S. officials said.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 25, 2010 2:15 AM


Truthy,

I say that half the detainees at Gitmo were put there because some Afghan warlord told us that he was a terrorist. This guy Zakir might have been genuine. But then why did the Bush administration let him go?

And about Kitty Wurthmann, the hits just keep on coming. I'm not calling her a liar. But she is a serial embellisher.

So she is not a good source to turn to. She just says things that you tea party types like to hear.

Which reminds me, what are Truthy and Hippie doing for April 19th? It's a big day, you know.

And Sydney - yes I am against killing viable post-born people. I think that fits the definition of murder. In my opinion, the killing of fetuses does not fit that definition. I call that medicine. On that point, we'll never agree. But you should be happy that you'll never support the killing of a fetus. Yipeeee. You go to heaven. While I support the brave men and women here on earth who are committed to helping women. That's my choice, and I sleep exceptionally well.

Posted by: Dhalgren at March 25, 2010 3:46 PM


Dhalgren...you're not helping women. Women DO NOT WANT ABORTION. We don't. Sometimes we feel desperate enough to choose it, but its not helping us and its not what we want! Stop spewing tired arguments.

Posted by: Sydney M. at March 25, 2010 4:13 PM


Sydney, you don't speak for all women. I want the choice to have an abortion. I'd chose to have an abortion in those circumstances, and I'm sure I'd sleep JUST fine at night.

Posted by: Less at March 25, 2010 6:21 PM


Oh you think so huh? I bet Carla thought she'd sleep just fine at night when she decided to have an abortion.

All the women I've ever known who had abortions did NOT want them (but were forced into it by family, boyfriends and circumstances) and ya know what? They didn't sleep just fine at night. They suffered agony for years and years and to this day suffer grief and other problems related to their abortions.

Posted by: Sydney M. at March 25, 2010 11:00 PM


I'd imagine so, if they were forced into them. As I would freely choose said abortion, however, I wouldn't be overly concerned. I would, however, be grief-stricken and frustrated should I be forced to give birth.

Posted by: Less at March 26, 2010 12:39 AM


Less, do you ever feel like a dead-beat dad stuck in a woman's body?

Posted by: truthseeker at March 26, 2010 10:47 AM


Dolly,
I see you still have deranged Bush syndrome. When discussing Obama's TERRIBLE idea of trying Guantamo prisoners in civiliand court with the rights of US citizens; rather than answer honestly and objectively, instead you talk about George Bush.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 26, 2010 10:52 AM


Dolly,
I see you still have deranged Bush syndrome. When discussing Obama's TERRIBLE idea of trying Guantamo prisoners in civilian court with the rights of US citizens; rather than answer honestly and objectively, instead you talk about George Bush.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 26, 2010 10:53 AM


TS, do you ever feel like posting a comment of value?

Posted by: Less at March 26, 2010 1:41 PM


Less... you say that now. That does not mean that should you have an abortion you will afterwards be "just fine with it" or should you give birth that it would destroy you. I have known many women who have never thought they would be good moms or had any interest in having children who, once finding themselves mothers, found out that they LOVED being moms.

You can say what you THINK you will feel, but you cannot definitively say what you WILL feel. No one can.

Posted by: Elisabeth at March 26, 2010 3:17 PM


Elisabeth, that's true, but after much experience with children, I feel as though I can say that with a high degree of accuracy. However, as I said, you are wholly correct that I might find some sort of interest in being pregnant some day.

That being said, at this point in my life, I have no interest in that at all, and would chose to abort if that became necessary.

Posted by: Less at March 26, 2010 3:26 PM