Is that Carly Simon or W?

Is that Warren Beatty or Obama?

Obama thinks he can bash President Bush on the campaign trail for 2 years, but at the same time President Bush can't say a peep about Obama. Keep dreaming Obama.

Funny stuff........ :D

When Obama, Pelosi, et al cried foul on President Bush's "appeasement" line, his advisors said the president wasn't speaking of Obama at all but Carter. What a hoot.

Don't you folks know Messiahs are above reproach?

testing

Hey Jess,
Continuing a previous discussion...Did you end up going with your grandparents to the Luthern Church? How did you like it? Have you found any other churches you liked?

If Obama thinks he has something to whine about, I wonder how Obama's pastor, Jeremiah Wright, felt about Obama throwing him under the bus when it became politically expedient for him to do so.
You know, the pastor Obama listened to for twenty years but was totally clueless about what he said or believed.

Welcome back Heather!

Where you been, Heather?

BTW, today is the 92nd running of the Indy 500. Anyone else watching/listening to the race or actually attending the race? My husband and I are going to his parent's RV (at a campground) and listening to the race while having a family cook out :-)

Hi all. I couldn't get on the site. It kept saying "Error in Templet Header"???? I don't know what was different about today.

If Obama thinks he has something to whine about, I wonder how Obama's pastor, Jeremiah Wright, felt about Obama throwing him under the bus when it became politically expedient for him to do so.

Posted by: Mary at May 25, 2008 10:18 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gee, John McCain threw both Revs. John Hagee and Rod Parsley under the bus this week after seeking their endorsements. Why don't you ask them?

Anyway, I have finally managed to join my local RTL organization. I am also trying to get through the book LIME 5. Absolutly horrifying! I am also reading "Aborting America" and "The Abortion Holocaust" I'm going to begin picketing the abortion mills as well. How's everyone?

Hello Laura. Hasn't anyone thrown you under a bus yet? LOL!

Mary and Carder, nice to see you both!:)

Heather! ...Heather!...Heather!...Heather!...
Heather!...Heather!

I missed you sooooo much! I hope the error is finally gone & you're back for good!

**Great big hugs**

:)

BTW, today is the 92nd running of the Indy 500. Anyone else watching/listening to the race or actually attending the race? My husband and I are going to his parent's RV (at a campground) and listening to the race while having a family cook out :-)

Posted by: Rachael at May 25, 2008 10:22 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Indy 500 and Coca-Cola 600 today.
As we speak I'm cooling beer and assembling a big sammich. (I'm cranking out a nacho/taco bar as well...)

I read Aborting America back in '92. What's interesting is that Nathanson has since written another book "The Hand of God" I think, which gives behind-the-scenes insight to AA. His abusive father had much to do with it.

Laura,

Whatever happened to our blog viewing of "Lake of Fire"? Is it on hold or scrapped?

Thank you all! It's very nice to see MOST of you! Yes. carder, these books will turn your stomach.

Laura 10:27am

They were not his pastors nor had he attended their churches. Neither of them baptized the McCain children or married the McCains.
They endorsed McCain. This does not mean McCain agrees with them or is obligated to do so.

Don't you folks argue that just because Obama sought out the suppport of ex-radical and terrorist bomber Bill Ayers and his equally ex-radical wife Bernadine Dohrn,even visiting them in their home, it does not mean he agrees with or even knows much about them?

The lady who works for my local RTL organization has heard of you Jill. I mentioned Jill, and the woman replied "I know all about who she is." This woman has been in the movement since 1973.

JLM 10:30am

Dittos!

Mary, JLM, and carder, thanks. You're all the best!

"Indy 500 and Coca-Cola 600 today.
As we speak I'm cooling beer and assembling a big sammich. (I'm cranking out a nacho/taco bar as well...)"

Ha! That's awesome Laura.

I second Carder's motion- are you still up for a blog viewing of "Lake of Fire"?

They endorsed McCain. This does not mean McCain agrees with them or is obligated to do so.

Posted by: Mary at May 25, 2008 10:41 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

McCain sought Hagee's endorsement, and announced the endorsement in a live press conference with Hagee on the same stage.

Indy 500 and Coca-Cola 600 today.
As we speak I'm cooling beer and assembling a big sammich. (I'm cranking out a nacho/taco bar as well...)

Woohoo, now we're talkin'! :-D

LIME 5 makes an excellent point. Make something immoral legal, and the # of people who will participate in that activity will actually increase.

Laura, 10:49am

So what if he did? Hagee was never his pastor and he never sat in his church. He has also rejected the endorsements of Hagee and Parsley.
Didn't Obama describe Wright as his pastor, mentor, and spiritual adviser? How many thousands did Obama give to Wright's church? He sat in the pews 20years then tried to claim his total ignorance of what Wright said and stood for. He also vowed to stand by Wright.

How long has the media been mercilessly bashing Bush? Almost 8 years now?

Look at how the media has turned on Hillary. Who wudda thunk this would have happened to her just a year ago when she was pretty much the heir apparent to the throne? I mean even I feel a little sorry for her. However, most of us conservatives knew who the real Hillary was back in 1991 when she first opened her mouth on the infamous 60 Minutes interview stating she was no Tammy Wynette. Barack Obama's wife is more dangerous than Hillary. Why? Because it has now been decreed that it is politically incorrect to attack her and such attacks viewed as racist. Remember how race sabotaged justice in the OJ murder trial.....same thing.

It should be clear to everyone that the media has an agenda on how they think the world should be run and by whom. They do us a great disservice by not just reporting the news. Thanks God for the Internet. And we can now assume that the media thinks they are the unelected fourth branch of the government.

We should all stop buying most newspapers and watching CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, and ABC until they report the news instead of make the news.

Heather,
You may be interested in sidewalk counseling:
An entry with information on Sidewalk Counseling
http://rsnider.livejournal.com/17052.html
It is a more peacful method of reaching out to abortion-vulnerable women.

As cited in "Real Choices: Listening to Women; Looking for Alternatives to Abortion"
"It was easy to champion the baby and denigrate the woman in framing the abortion debate. But the more we insisted the baby's rights were more important than the woman's, the more we made the woman involved feel besieged and friendless. We reinforced the message our abortion-rights opponents were murmuring to her: the baby is your enemy, and pro-lifers are advancing your enemy's rights against your own."

When we use picketing with blockades, graphic images, and hurtful chanting ("Please don't kill your baby!"), we are further driving the gap between the woman and her baby and reinforcing the idea that the pro-lifers don't care about her or her baby nor have her best interests in mind, reducing the chance she will react to our message or feel safe to approach pro-lifers for help. This is why it's important pro-lifers move towards taking a more compassionate approach to meet the needs and concerns of the woman and unborn child.

Rachael, thank you for the link! I hope you are doing okay!

Rachel, the 2 main killing clinics in my state have parking in the back of the building. I will be so brand new to this, and I'm wondering how you would get a woman's attention for some sidewalk counseling.

I never realized how much sexual abuse went on in abortion clinics.

I've been thinking about the Hagee comment about Hitler and the Jews. I'm not saying I agree with him, I'm just analyzing the statement based on my knowledge of Scripture.

As the Bible prophesied thousands of years prior, the Jews were going to be scattered and then brough back together.

This is just what happened. The Jews were scattered via the Diaspora in 70 AD and now are returning from all over the world to a resurrected nation of Israel. In fact, one of the requirements for the Lord's return was the re-establishment of the nation of Israel and the re-building of the Temple. If you don't understand Bile prophecy, which the vast majority of people don't, I can understand how Mr. Hagee's comments could be misconstrued.

I can see how calling the Jews, "the hunted" is very offensive, but I don't think Hagee meant it that way. I think he was just explaining how Hitler had intended to destroy the Jews but that God had turned that evil motive into the reunification of Israel, a very good thing. Mr. Hagee should have used some different words to present that idea, however.

In fact, Hagee started "Christians United For Israel" (www.CUFI.org) a few years back. Of all the evangelical leaders, I know of, no one who is more unconditionally supportive of the Jewish people than John Hagee. The Jewish leaders involved in that organization and the leaders of Israel know this.

Now, don't take any cheap shot at me. I'm just trying to explain what I know about the situtation. Got to go to church now. I'll check back later. Please continue to have a safe weekend.

HisMan 11:41am

Do you recall how merciless the media was to Dan Quayle? One big "issue" with the media was his supposed lack of qualifications to be vice president.
Quayle had I believe 4 years in congress and was on his second term in the senate. Obama has had what? Not one full term in the US senate. No one in the media questions his qualifications to be president.

Quayle was ripped into for serving in the National Guard during the Vietnam era. Bill Clinton didn't serve at all but that was beside the point.

Some woman claimed Quayle danced close and suggestively with her. He vehemently denied it. Of course the media pounded its chest in self righteous "indignation" over this.
Clinton is accused of everything from exposing himself to rape, as well as being serviced by some young woman his daughter's age in the oval office. Hey, who can blame a guy for getting some action? His exposing himself was referred to as "propositioning" and the alleged rape was "a private matter".
Any of you guys on this blog doing the same thing would be called sex offenders.

Good heavens HisMan, I hope you would never suggest that there's a double standard in the media or that they in any way pick favorites.

Mary, great point. To this day I still hear so many women lamenting about what a great president Bill was. They turn a blind eye to all of his shortcomings.

OOPS..meant lamenting about a great prez lost.

Welcome back, Heather!

Rachel, the 2 main killing clinics in my state have parking in the back of the building. I will be so brand new to this, and I'm wondering how you would get a woman's attention for some sidewalk counseling.

Posted by: heather at May 25, 2008 11:55 AM

There must be a street entrance with access to the abortuary. You could stand there. You may not know where the car's final destination is if there are multiple businesses, but there are clues, like a passenger in a car. Leaving it's easier to identify the them because the passenger is likely in a resting position, or laying down in the car looking uncomfortable. At that point, you can give them post-abortive materials.

Hello Janet and Elizabeth. Nice to see you both:)

At that point, you can give them post-abortive materials.

Clarification: by "materials" I mean literature, information on where to go if further help is needed.

Thanks, Heather. Good to see you too!

,.,.,.,.

,.,.,.,.,.,., Oops, that was a test. at 12:52...

Heather, did you get an error trying to "Preview"? That button isn't functioning anymore. If not, then I don't know why you had a problem posting.

"What's interesting is that Nathanson has since written another book "The Hand of God" I think, which gives behind-the-scenes insight to AA. His abusive father had much to do with it."

That's right, carder. I read it a few months ago. It's basically his auto-biography, with a heavy emphasis on his involvement with abortion.

Bobby, How do you find all of these interesting books? Is your Bambina enjoying her first Memorial Day weekend?

Bobby, these books are really hard to stomach. It really takes you into those God awful death clinics. One abortion clinic worker took the dismembered head of a dead baby and put it in the fridge in a clear container. It was meant to be a "joke" ...they put a label on the container that read "HI!" "REMEMBER ME?"

Janet, I'm not sure what was going on. I gave up. I tried today. It worked. What the heck is a TEMPLET HEADER?

Bobby, I was looking for "The Hand Of God"...couldn't find it. I'll keep looking.

Janet,

"Bobby, How do you find all of these interesting books? Is your Bambina enjoying her first Memorial Day weekend?"

I go completley nuts when it comes to my amazon.com wishlist. What I mean by that is that anytime I hear about a book from EWTN or Catholic Answers or a friend or anywhere, I add it to my wishlist. Then amazon recommends other books and I tend to add those if they look good. At this point, my wishlist is 42 pages long. I also look at other people's wishlists that and see what they're into and then add them onto mine. I'm an insane human like that. I'm able to read about one book each week.

We get to go to a friend's place for a BBQ this afternoon. I"m sure the little baby will enjoy that; everyone tends to ohh and ahh over her :)

Heather, they can be difficult to stomach, but in all honesty, nothing is really as bad as just one picture of a D & X. That's just inhuman.

"Bobby, I was looking for "The Hand Of God"...couldn't find it. I'll keep looking."

Heather, if you can't find it, I"ll gladly send you my copy. Just let me know.

Bobby, THE ABORTION HOLOCAUST has pictures of aborted mangled babies piled on top of one another in a big bucket. I just can't look at it for any legnth of time. OMG, what do we do to these poor children?

Oh thank you Bobby..I'll take it! Just get my e-mail from one of the mods.

Heather,
Thank you. Hubby and I are both getting over strep throat, so a bit miserable but overall we're doing ok. As for your question on sidewalk counsling, I have not personally had experience with sidewalk counseling but have researched it extensively. Did you have a chance to look at the resources I listed at the blog entry? I recommend reading the Karen Black Method at SidewalkCounseling.com
http://sidewalkcounseling.com/black.asp

Also I recommend watching the video, The Essence of Sidewalk Counseling
http://www.vitalsignsministries.org/ram/042801wknd.ram

testing

Rachael, get well to you and the hubby. Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

Mary at May 25, 2008 12:37 PM

A little fairness in the media would be refreshing.

I believe that all this bias and favoritism will eventually be their downfall. In fact, it's already happening.

HisMan, 2:37PM

You certainly have it right about their impending downfall.
More news outlets have appeared, giving people more alternatives and leaving the outlets you mention in the dust. People are by far better informed than I can ever remember them being.

Hope these informed people aren't watching fox news station, polls say fox has the least informed audience, with news papers at the top of the list (specifically I'm unsure which) Only one television show placed in the top 10 most informed "users" and that was the Daily Show/Colbert Report. I'm sure most of you know that those are two parody shows.

Quite simply, outlets need to stop dramatizing the news, it's making people remember less and/or apathetic to local, national, and world events.

The age of blogging and the use of the internet as a source of news is certainly taking a chunk out of traditional news sources, but it also leaves people to believing something wildly false as legitimate.

Dan: Whose poll are you quoting?

Dan: Whose poll are you quoting?

Posted by: Janet at May 25, 2008 3:59 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=319

Thanks Laura, Are you a mind reader? :)

I second Carder's motion- are you still up for a blog viewing of "Lake of Fire"?

Posted by: Rae at May 25, 2008 10:46 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not only "Lake of Fire," "The Baby Borrowers" premiers on June 25th.
Someone called it "Shock and Awe Baby Bootie Camp."

(I love the ad; "It's not TV, It's birth control...)

I'd like LOF first.

HisMan, you wrote: "How long has the media been mercilessly bashing Bush? "

You can't cover GWB honestly without appearing to bash him. Anything truthful anyone can say about him sounds like an insult.

Anyway, it makes up for the pass they gave him during the 2000 campaign --not publicizing his history of all-day every-day cocaine abuse. While his father was Vice President of Reagan's "War on Drugs", no less.

Heather, does LIME 5 give any indication HOW COMMON sexual abuse in abortion clinics is? I am not looking for a list of examples. I'm asking whether he gives NUMBERS--does he attempt, for instance, to show that sexual abuse of patients is MORE COMMON among abortion docs than among docs in other areas? Or does he just list examples? (As you know from our previous discussions, a list of examples is essentially meaningless.)

Just wondering.

I guess you could say of GWB: he keeps in good physical shape with regular exercise. That's a truthful thing you can say about him which does not also insult him. OK that's a counterexample to what I said earlier.

Hey this is interesting:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/5/31/22921/8574

Money quote: "No one, neither the patient receiving an abortion, nor the person doing the abortion, is ever, at anytime, unaware that they are ending a life. We just don't believe that a developing embryo or fetus, whose mother cannot or will not accept it, has the same moral claims on us, claims to autonomy and justice, that an adolescent or adult woman has. "

But read the whole thing.

Bush admitted he had a drug and alcohol problem.

He recovered from it. He attributes God's grace to his healing. Why do you Libs hate that?

So what's up with you SoMG? When are you going to admit to God that you havea problem?

SoMG:Your recommended reading:
WHY I PROVIDE ABORTIONS
by william f harrison

This is a man's attempt to justify his choice of a horrible profession (as God's will for him, no less) by attempting to tug at our emotional heart strings. While we should feel compassion for his patients, he's completely missed the boat on the right way to help them in their difficult situations. We've all heard the saying: "Hell is paved with good intentions." Someone close to him needs to let him know.

SoMG: 11:08:She or someone else had obviously tried to "abort her".

I hate this phrase "abort her". It's only recently that I have come across it - it makes the object of the abortion the mother, when in fact it is the baby who is aborted. Seems a very clever way to deflect the focus from the truth that abortion is committed against a baby (or fetus/however you want to say it).

Heather, does LIME 5 give any indication HOW COMMON sexual abuse in abortion clinics is? I am not looking for a list of examples. I'm asking whether he gives NUMBERS--does he attempt, for instance, to show that sexual abuse of patients is MORE COMMON among abortion docs than among docs in other areas? Or does he just list examples? (As you know from our previous discussions, a list of examples is essentially meaningless.)

Just wondering.

Posted by: SoMG at May 25, 2008 10:48 PM----------------------------------------------------------------- Actually, it's running rampant. Is even one case of sexual abuse acceptable to you? How about this? A woman was laboring in an abortion clinic, and the abortionists performed oral sex on her.

Above post should say The abortionist. In another claim from a teenager, the abortionist remarked to the the young lady "You have a nice/[slang for vagina]" and rubbed her genitals.

Is it funny to you that a fetal head was floating in a container, and "HI!" "DO YOU REMEMBER ME?" was written on it?

"Running rampant"? How MANY cases of sexual abuse of patients by abortion docs does that mean? You have started listing examples, but I specifically told you that lists of examples, however lurid, do not interest me.

What I want to know is, does LIME 5 claim that sexual abuse of patients is MORE FREQUENT among abortion docs than among other types of docs? If he does make this claim, what evidence does he present to support it? A list of examples is NOT evidence.

Somg, you didn't answer my question. I will look for you.

Author Mark Crutcher writes, The abortion industry is conducting a massive cover-up of abortion industry disasters. Also, pro-choice organizations advance their political agenda by sheltering abortion providers they know are dangerous. And, abortion-injured women who seek justice from the civil courts have to compete against a system that was designed to protect the people who injured them.

Last, but not least,.. The abortion industry is collapsing because performing abortions is emotionally destroying clinic workers.

More than 160 women accused a California abortionist of sexually assalting them.

Another abortionist performed an abortion on a pt. who was 12 weeks pregnant. After the procedure, he pulled his gloves off, glared at the woman, and yelled, "THERE!" "ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?" and walked out of the procedure room.

Also from Lime 5...Abortionist David Zbaraz told the Washington Post, "It's a nasty, dirty, yucky thing and I always come home angry." The article went on to say "on those days when he performs abortions, his wife can tell as soon as he walks in the door."

Hi Heather! it's nice to hear from you again.

welcome back.

Jasper, thank you. Likewise.

Heather, I'm not sure which question you mean. I will guess it's "Is even one case of sexual abuse acceptable to you? "

If that's the question, the answer is no, but if abortion docs are no worse than the rest of the medical profession, I can live with that.

You quoted LIME 5: "The abortion industry is conducting a massive cover-up of abortion industry disasters. Also, pro-choice organizations advance their political agenda by sheltering abortion providers they know are dangerous."

This may or may not be true--I can think of one counterexample right off the bat: it was pro-choice activist Senator Barbara Boxer (D-Ca) who lead the charge against serial-molester-abortionist Lawrence Reich. Anyway, whether or not it is true, it does not address the question of whether sexual harassment of patients is more common among abortion docs than among other branches of the medical profession.

You said LIME 5 says that "The abortion industry is collapsing because performing abortions is emotionally destroying clinic workers."

From first-hand observation, I would disagree with this. Many medical specialities have high dropout rates. A professor of emergency medicine once told me the average career of an emergency-room physician lasts about twelve years before (s)he burns out. Nurses generally have a high dropout rate (Jill Stanek is an example). It doesn't matter because they get replaced by new trainees.

What is really happening in abortion is, the number of providers is declining (not "collapsing") as the number of women with unwanted pregnancies declines. The continuing decline in demand for abortions is mostly caused by the baby-boomers aging past reproductivity, and partly caused by improvements in contraceptive technology such as the "morning-after" pill. It may or may not also be true that more women with unplanned pregnancies are choosing to grow them; whether this is true at all and how big it is if it is true we don't know.

You wrote: "More than 160 women accused a California abortionist of sexually assalting them. Another abortionist performed an abortion on a pt. who was 12 weeks pregnant. After the procedure, he pulled his gloves off, glared at the woman, and yelled, "THERE!" "ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?" and walked out of the procedure room."

These are what epidemiologists and medical scientists call ANECDOTES. They prove exactly nothing.

For instance, I read the other day about a high-profile lawyer who represents cops getting accused by two female employees of squeezing their breasts and pressing their hands against his crotch. What does this tell you about lawyers who represent cops generally? Nothing.

Somg, it's not easy to get you to see the light. I don't believe that you want to see it. For now, I'll let it be. You continue to believe what you want to believe, and I'll continue to believe what I want to believe.

Also, the pictures in these books speak volumes. You can't tell me that what I'm looking at isn't human. It is. You also can't tell me that the pictures aren't real. They are. No woman should ever be allowed to do this to her child legally.

About an abortionist who says "There!" "Are you happy now?" ....Is that the norm?

How about the Canaddian abortionist who shoved a Kotex into a woman's mouth who was screaming during her procedure. He told her "This will shut you up."

Actually, that was Henry Morgantaler who shoved the Kotex into the woman's mouth. He also says that he considers himself "A ladies man." and he does abortions because he "loves women." Creepy huh?

Yep. I suppose the dead babies found in garbage dumps are just "anecdotes".

October 8, 2007
Documentary on Canadian Abortion Provider Dr. Henry Morgentaler Premieres Tomorrow
Via the Canadian Press:

TORONTO - A documentary about the life of abortion doctor Henry Morgentaler portrays the controversial figure as a charismatic ladies' man who has found it difficult to maintain monogamous relationships.

The film "Henry," which makes its Canadian premiere at a Toronto screening Tuesday, features a rundown of the newsmaker's loves while offering up such bizarre scenes as a madcap Morgentaler winning laughs in a comedy skit and a shirtless Morgentaler - covered in body hair - playing table tennis in his basement.

The private moments stand in stark contrast to the doctor's typically measured persona in front of the public, when he's usually sounding off on the highly divisive issue of abortion.

---------------------------------------------------------- What an absolute stud!

Funny, the Pope came to America this year and apologized to the thousands of victims of the pedophile priest scandal, John Burt of the Army of God was sentenced for raping underage girls at his home for unwed mothers, the Mormon compound in Texas was raided for institutionalized sexual assault against children, and this week the pastor of a "megachurch" was arrested for soliciting sex from a 13-year-old girl.

If Heather's little anecdotes are reason enough to outlaw abortion, then I'd say that this year has provided us with MORE than enough reasons to outlaw Christianity.

Laura, why do you even bother? What does a church have to do with an abortion clinic?

WOW! I guess Laura might as well have just come out and said that women deserve what they get in an abortion clinic. EVEN IF IT'S A KOTEX IN YOUR MOUTH!

Even if you are raped by the abortionist, I guess it's just fine.

SoMG: 9:09: It may or may not also be true that more women with unplanned pregnancies are choosing to grow them; whether this is true at all and how big it is if it is true we don't know.

Another phrase that bugs me: to "grow" (a pregnancy).
We grow carrots and tomatoes, women carrytheir pregnancies.

Janet, right. That's a strange way to describe it.

Choosing to grow it. How about deciding to kill it?

Along with these abortionists, many doctors have really lousy bedside manners. A doctor from my OB/GYN medical group (who I had never met before) came in my hospital room hours after I had gone through a very long labor in delivering my baby and said "so, you're not pregnant anymore!" It still bugs me today, that he thought that was a proper way to greet me. What about "Congratulations!" ?

(cont. from above) ...Come to think of it, it sounds more like something an abortionist would say to his patient.

Yes. That is a very odd greeting.

I believe I would have shot him a strange look.

Why do people assume that if you are against abortion, you are suddenly pro-priest pedophile? I say to throw the child molesters in jail for the remainder of their days!!!! I don't care what their occupation is!!

I say to throw the pedophile priests in jail. Where is the same outcry for sexually inappropriate abortionists?

Heather, what you call "seeing the light" I call active self-delusion. It's the decision to believe something in spite of the fact that there is no evidence supporting it. The decision to get "information" from obvious non-scientific propaganda sources. You put it pretty well when you wrote "I'll continue to believe what I want to believe. "

For my part I prefer to believe what measured data indicate.

Heather

I say to throw the pedophile priests in jail. Where is the same outcry for sexually inappropriate abortionists?

Throw 'em in jail! I don't have a problem throwing pedophiles, rapists and other sexual offenders in jail.

YOU are trying to use the example of abortionists sexually attacking patients as a reason to outlaw abortion. Well, from the number of stories and anecdotes I've read ... police officers, teachers, lawyers, doctors of other medical fields, and a whole lot of celebrities should also have their professions swept out from under them, considering how sexually vile those professions are.

However, we understand that even in Chicago, only about 5 percent of our cops are corrupt, and those 5 percent are going to make big news every time they do something and every time they're going to get away with it.

Am I okay with them getting away with murder (literally)? No.
Am I okay with police officers continuing to do their jobs despite those jerks? YES.

Two different arguments, sweetie. Of course people are outraged. But like SoMG has been trying to point out, unless it's the vast majority of abortionists sexually assaulting their patients (or even more than normal medical professionals) than it's not worth looking into as a reason to ban abortion.

"Am I okay with them getting away with murder (literally)? No."

yes you are, you're OK with this being legal, aren't you? -> http://www.mttu.com/abort-pics/more7.jpg

Hi Jasper. Please try to improve your reading comprehension skills. If you pay very close attention, you will see that I was talking about Chicago police officers who have shot and killed several people and gotten away with it.

Oh the same old attacks and arguments. Sad thing is, I'm getting used to this goobley goop.

Edyt and Somg, you guys both use the same old tactic. Diversion. I'm sharpening my skills and educating myself on the abortion industry and finding out what is really going on. I could have told you abortion was murder when I was 13 years old. Nobody had to teach me this. Call it a feeling. You guys always start pointing the finger at corrupt priests, dentists, cops, and some say "It never happened." I'm telling you it did and it does. It will continue to.

jasper, thanks for the picture. There are tons of pictures like that one in these books. You pro choicers have got to come to the point where you can admit that abortion is murder.

Edyt, why is the # of abortion practitioners declining?

For my part I prefer to believe what measured data indicate.

Posted by: SoMG at May 26, 2008 12:40 PM------------------- What data and where is it?

And Edyt, abortionist Henry Monteglar still has a huge following of female supporters despite the fact that he shoved a Kotex in a woman's mouth. What the heck is wrong with women in general?

Oh shut the hell up already heather- good god you rant more than TexasRed used to.

Heather 4:12PM

You tell me. A prominent female journalist, she once worked for TIME magazine, said she would gladly give Bill Clinton a "Lewinsky" just to keep abortion legal. What a class act.

"Shut-up" - are you allowed to say that if you are over 10 years old?

Anonymous, I'm not worried about you. How rude you are. Mary, how true.

Janet, thank you.

Being told to shut up is actually a compliment. It tells me that I've presented my case well.

Anon 5:11PM

Who's forcing you to read Heather's posts?
Also check out the First Amendment. It says something about the freedom of speech.

Mary, thank you! I don't know what on earth I possibly could have said to upset you, Anon.

Read Lime 5. Then you'll really be offended.

Edyt and Somg, you guys both use the same old tactic. Diversion. I'm sharpening my skills and educating myself on the abortion industry and finding out what is really going on. I could have told you abortion was murder when I was 13 years old. Nobody had to teach me this. Call it a feeling. You guys always start pointing the finger at corrupt priests, dentists, cops, and some say "It never happened." I'm telling you it did and it does. It will continue to.

And you're using the "distortion" tactic.

When did I say it never happened? When did I say those people should be allowed to continue their practices?

I think I quite clearly said "Throw 'em in jail."

That includes police officers, members of the clergy, and anyone else who commits a sexual offense. If you've read my writing before, I believe I've said sexual offenders deserve more time in jail than non-violent drug offenders (currently the reverse is true).

And Edyt, abortionist Henry Monteglar still has a huge following of female supporters despite the fact that he shoved a Kotex in a woman's mouth. What the heck is wrong with women in general?

Oh, I see. So because someone has a following of women, all women are suddenly to blame?

I'm sorry, but your generalizations are ridiculous. I'm female and I certainly don't approve of what he did. And I make no apology for what other women choose to do with their lives. If they want to follow after Monteglar or the Beach Boys is no concern of mine. They have their choices, I have mine.

Edyt, okay. Good enough. Can you tell me why the # of abortion practitioners is decreasing? Why would a man like Henry Monteglar still be allowed to remain in practice? If my OBgyn ever pulled a stunt like that on me, he'd be picking up his teeth off the floor for starters.

Edyt, he had offended our gender. ALL women should be outraged.

I don't think the Beach Boys would stick a Kotex in your mouth.

Oh, I see. So because someone has a following of women, all women are suddenly to blame?

---------------------------------------------------------- No. Don't women pride themselves on being smart? Don't women pride themselves on being able to make decisions about their own bodies? Don't pro-choice women claim that they are pro-woman? Just sayin.

Edyt, why is the # of abortion practitioners declining?

I haven't read very much on that topic, but off the top of my head I would say part of it has to do with economics. Demand and supply.

According to the Guttmacher Institute, the decline in providers has to do with the rise of medication abortion.

Not surprisingly, their first paragraph supports my assertion of economics at play. Declining abortions means less providers.

In 2005, the U.S. abortion rate declined to 19.4 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44, continuing the downward trend that started after the abortion rate peaked at 29.3 in 1981, according to a new Guttmacher Institute census of U.S. abortion providers. The abortion rate is now at its lowest level since 1974. The number of abortions declined as well, to a total of 1.2 million in 2005, 25% below the all-time high of 1.6 million abortions in 1990.

...

Fifty-seven percent of all known abortion providers now offer medication abortion services, compared with 33% in early 2001. Medication abortion accounted for 13% (161,000) of all abortions performed in 2005, and 22% of all eligible abortions (those performed prior to nine weeks’ gestation).

Of course, the same study shows that abortion providers aren't really declining at a noticeable rate:

The decline in the number of U.S. abortion providers, which had been substantial over the past decade, slowed dramatically between 2000 and 2005: The number of providers declined just 2% over this period, partly because of a surge in the number of providers that offer only medication abortion services. Without them, the number of providers would have declined by 8%. Overall, the number of providers declined in 26 states and the District of Columbia, increased in 15 states and remained stable in nine.

Women have their choices, and you have yours. Men have their choices too. So, if a man wanted to rape a woman, that's his choice? Even if it's the wrong choice?

Guttmacher is bias.

Why would a man like Henry Monteglar still be allowed to remain in practice?

I have no idea.

If my OBgyn ever pulled a stunt like that on me, he'd be picking up his teeth off the floor for starters.

Mine too.

Edyt, he had offended our gender. ALL women should be outraged.

Sure. But so do abusive husbands and people who call women "bitches" and quite frankly, with how many times our gender gets insulted every day, there's so little we can do to stop it, except educate men and women on how to respectfully treat people. I wish there was a better solution, but I can't think of one at the moment. Maybe in a couple days I'll come up with a better answer for you.

I don't think the Beach Boys would stick a Kotex in your mouth.

Haha, I would hope not. But R Kelly slept with a 13 year old and urinated on her, so I don't exactly hold celebrities to a high standard.

No. Don't women pride themselves on being smart? Don't women pride themselves on being able to make decisions about their own bodies? Don't pro-choice women claim that they are pro-woman? Just sayin.

Heather, WTF?

What are you getting at here?

No, not all women are smart or make good decisions. Nor do all men.

I do not support a physician who sexually assaults his/her patient, no matter what that doctor practices.

I will not speak for all women. Certainly I think all women should be offended, but I will not force people to care about issues they don't care about.

Well, you've got to admit that when you see women in support of Monteglar, it's rather appauling. These are women who would let a possible teenage abortion patient fall right into the jerk's hands. I'd be warning all women to stay away from him and his abortion clinic.

Women have their choices, and you have yours. Men have their choices too. So, if a man wanted to rape a woman, that's his choice? Even if it's the wrong choice?

Yeah, that is his choice. What are you trying to say? Someone forced him to rape someone? Because I'm pretty sure no one "forces" anyone to rape anyone.

Yes, it was his choice. He deserves to go to jail for it, just like anybody else. If a doctor rapes someone, if a priest rapes someone, if a lawyer or a barista or a veterinarian rapes someone, they all deserve to go to jail for their stupid choice.

Edyt, I'm glad that you don't support it, but I guess there are plenty of women who still do. This gives the PC crowd a bad name.

Guttmacher is bias[ed].

Okay. Then find another report on abortion providers on the decline that explains some of the reasons they may be declining.

Edyt, I'm glad that you don't support it, but I guess there are plenty of women who still do. This gives the PC crowd a bad name.

What do you expect me to do about it? Sidewalk protests at abortion clinics give the PL crowd a bad name, but you guys speak out against their violent behavior as well.

If you want to judge a whole group on the behavior of a few individuals, go ahead. But like I mentioned earlier, it's just as ridiculous to not trust the whole Chicago police department because they've got a few bad apples.

(However, I still think those bad apples should've gotten jail time.)

Two cops in my state were pulling female drivers over and forcing them to perform oral sex on them. One cop watched. The other one did the do. They took turns. They were caught and terminated immediatly. Why is Montegler still in practice, and where is the outrage from PC groups against him? You guys are the people who want this kept legal.

He should be out of practice.

I'm trying to run unsafe pervos like Montegler off. You PCers are trying to keep him in full practice. Speaking of actions from an entire group...that's a lot of women supporting "The Kotex man."

Two cops in my state were pulling female drivers over and forcing them to perform oral sex on them. One cop watched. The other one did the do. They took turns. They were caught and terminated immediatly.

Good. You don't live in Chicago though, right? ;) We treat out cops here with a special kind of immunity...

Why is Montegler still in practice, and where is the outrage from PC groups against him? You guys are the people who want this kept legal.

Ahh... and there it is.

I don't know why he's still in practice. I don't think shoving a Kotex in someone's mouth is necessarily enough to make someone lose his medical license, though I do believe he should have been fired from that institution and possibly sent to some sensitivity-training workshops, as well as pay a fine or pay that woman for his act.

But as you clearly stated with your last sentence, what you're getting at is not just Monteglar, it's about all abortion providers. You want all abortions stopped and you're using those bad apples to prove that it should be.

Which is just as silly an argument as saying the police force should be abolished because those two cops you mentioned earlier forced women to perform oral sex on them.

SoMG asked earlier if you could provide numbers proving more abortionists sexually assault patients than regular doctors. You have a few anecdotes, but I'm sure with a few minutes of googling I could find some "upstanding" doctors with reprehensible records.

Simply put, your argument that the abortion should be made illegal because some abortionists are sex offenders is a logical fallacy.

I don't know why he's still in practice. I don't think shoving a Kotex in someone's mouth is necessarily enough to make someone lose his medical license, though I do believe he should have been fired from that institution and possibly sent to some sensitivity-training workshops, as well as pay a fine or pay that woman for his act.

---------------------------------------------------------- Please tell me you're joking!

BTW, this guy's name is actually Morgentaler. I kept trying to Google it with no results until I realized you must have misspelled his name.

Oh, my bad. Shows how little I care. Let's give him a fine for rape too! Okay, Edyt?

Edyt, that WAS you posting under anon, wasn't it?

Apparently that incident happened in 1985. No wonder no one is particularly outraged.

Edyt's agreeing with Somg. LOL!

The guy was also a holocaust survivor. Ironic.

Heather,

You're being ridiculous and paranoid.

First of all, there is ONE news article about that particular incident, by the Toronto Star back in 1985.

I cannot find any evidence this incident even went to court.

Do I think a doctor should have his license revoked for something there is no evidence happened? Not even a trial? Nothing?

So, if someone rapes someone in 1985, we shouldn't be too upset about it anymore.

I'm not going to say this guy is a great doctor. He certainly doesn't sound like he's that concerned about quality medical care and that should be looked into.

But hinging the entire abortion industry one one careless doctor? Absurd.

Furthermore, I can't find anything saying he ever raped someone, so why should he pay a fine for that?

Edyt, you're just another typical pro choicer. You haven't control over a thing. That's the funny part. Not your body. Not your ability to make decisions. Keep on lying to yourself though. It seems to be working for you.

Alright, I'm done.

You can't support your position so you resort to attacking me.

Another logical fallacy.

Have a nice day, Heather.

Edyt, read Lime 5. Rape is happening all over in American abortion clinics. Abortionists are getting away with this activity.

I haven't attacked you. Good day.

you're just another typical pro choicer. You haven't control over a thing. That's the funny part. Not your body. Not your ability to make decisions. Keep on lying to yourself though. It seems to be working for you.

Personal attack.

Not an argument.

Rape is happening all over in American abortion clinics. Abortionists are getting away with this activity.

If Lime 5 is so compelling, why no statistics?

According to the book, he had to dig back to 1968 to find information (before Roe v. Wade) about women dying.

Where is the proof that rape is happening all over abortion clinics? Because if it is happening, we should do something about it and send those people to jail!

But here's where I'm making you unhappy: I'm all for persecuting the person and not the industry.

You aren't making me unhappy. I've never had an abortion, and I would never have an abortion. I just don't believe that a woman has the right to kill her offspring.

I'll bet that all of the women who were sexually abused at abortion clinics are quite unhappy though.

I told you in the above post. 160 women made claim that their abortionist molested/ and or raped them. Is that a high #? The good news is that he was removed from practice. However, he popped up again. He began performing abortions again. He was busted again.

You should know that like Bernard Nathanson, Henry Morgentaler had his own child aborted. Unlike Bernard Nathanson, Henry is today, while on his deathbed, staunchly proabortion and staunchly humanistic.

You want delusional: this man actually believes that he is singlehandedly responsible for the drop in the Canadian crime rate due to abortions.

He makes, by his own admission, 10 MILLION dollars profit per year from his free-standing clinics across Canada, each of which has a "bubble zone" around it to prevent any woman from being deterred at the last moment from their "choice".

His supporters have included radical feminists, members of the homosexual and pedophilia movements in Canada as well as anarchists.

People using his clinics include among others prostitutes, illegal immigrants pregnant with their employers babies and young teens often pressured by their parents, boyfriends and family.

He is known for having performed an abortion on TV live (no pun intended) on Mother's Day.

Patricia, thank you. I had also read that. I knew he was a psycho.

Also, I was watching a show about females who are incarcerated. That # has increased by 50%. It's actually increased. Think about the message that abortion sends. Life is Cheap. If you don't want it, kill it. So, some women think that anything goes. Also, drug use may increase after abortion. Just something to think about.

Patricia, why do his supporters not surprise me?

Heather, why do you keep asking why the number of abortion docs is decreasing? I explained that to you above. I'll quote myself:

"What is really happening in abortion is, the number of providers is declining (not "collapsing") as the number of women with unwanted pregnancies declines. The continuing decline in demand for abortions is mostly caused by the baby-boomers aging past reproductivity, and partly caused by improvements in contraceptive technology such as the "morning-after" pill. It may or may not also be true that more women with unplanned pregnancies are choosing to grow them; whether this is true at all and how big it is if it is true we don't know."

Also, you wrote: "Edyt, read Lime 5. Rape is happening all over in American abortion clinics. "

However, when I ask you whether Crutcher even CLAIMS that sexual harassment/rape is more common among abortion docs than among the rest of the medical profession, you do not answer.

Let me help you out. There are only two ways to answer my question: "Yes, SoMG, he does," or "No, SoMG, he doesn't." I suppose a third possible answer might be "I'm sorry, SoMG, although I read the book recently, I am so stupid that I cannot remember whether or not it claims this."

You wrote: "Also, drug use may increase after abortion. "

On the other hand, it may decrease. Show some data, please.

I'm sorry to say that I am rapidly returning to my previous opinon, which is, that Heather is a very stupid person.

I don't mean the above as an insult, but as a statement of fact.

I'm sorry to say that I am rapidly returning to my previous opinon, which is, that Heather is a very stupid person.

Posted by: SoMG at May 27, 2008 11:27 AM----------------------- This only shows that you can't refute me. I've always thought you were out in left field. Now I realize I am 100% correct.

Somg, you even knew who the abortionist was in my above post. I once asked you if you would ever touch a female patient sexually. You avoided answering me.

Of course rape by abortion providers is more common then other medical workers. It makes more business Somg. Do you not believe in what you would have to consider a smart business decision?
You would do it if it gained you a few coins in your pocket Somg, would you not, and why not Somg?
And don't take that as a insult, but just a fact jack.

Also, the drugs that you mentioned are abortions! So, the number of abortions hasn't decreased. The # of surgical abortions may have.

Heather, you wrote: "I once asked you if you would ever touch a female patient sexually. "

Certainly not while she was a patient. Would I ever date a FORMER patient? I guess if I found myself feeling inclined to do so, I would follow the rule therapists use, and wait at least five years after she stopped being my patient.

(Note that this tells you nothing about my gender--I could be talking about a lesbian date.)

I already know you're a man.

Patricia, you wrote about Canadian abortion clinics: "...each of which has a "bubble zone" around it to prevent any woman from being deterred at the last moment from their "choice"."

Get serious. You know quite well that that is not the purpose of the bubble zone. Its purpose is to prevent women from being PHYSICALLY BLOCKED, or INTIMIDATED by explicit or implied threats of violence, from entering an abortion clinic.

What's the point of posting statements which you know are false?

Heather, you wrote: "I already know you're a man."

How do you "know" this?

MK already answered that on another post.

Had me ROFL.

How old are you SoMG?

Which are more common, male or female abortionists? How many are foreign born? It seems like a good percentage are, from what's reported in the news....

Janet,

A lot of doctors, especially in big cities, are foreign born. According to the Migration Information Source, one in four doctors (physicians and surgeons) was born abroad. About 15 percent of all health care workers are foreign-born, and three-fourths of those live in big cities.

Carder,
re: SoMG
Typical man...asks a question and disappears before he hears the answer...lol.

"Typical man, he comes, and then he goes."

Hello Doug.

Or shall I say State Mate?

Yo, Heather.

Oh for heaven's sake Doug (8:50am)