Following are my top 5 favorite political cartoons for the week. We begin with one on our issue by Michael Ramirez at Townhall.com, satirizing President Obama's recess appointment of Donald Berwick to head the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. A one-man death panel, Berwick stated last year, "The decision is not whether or not we will ration care. The decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open."...
by Mike Lester at Townhall.com...
by Steve Kelley at Townhall.com...
by Steve Sack at GoComics.com...
another good one by Mike Lester at Townhall.com...
Sure, a sign like that isn't racist - but a sign that says "Obamanomics - Monkey See, Monkey Spend" - like what was at a Denver tea party - that is clearly racist.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 18, 2010 8:18 AM
I totally get the rationing health care thing.
What it really means is that if you are a Catholic entity that does not do abortions and dispense baby-killing drugs you won't be getting any healthcare money.
Way to go, to all those "Catholics" who voted for Obama.Posted by: angel at July 18, 2010 8:33 AM
My response to Berwick:Posted by: Gerard Nadal at July 18, 2010 9:35 AM
Except for in YOUR mind, what do monkeys have to do with black people? I have often heard children, myself included, referred to as monkeys, usually when they were mischievous. "Monkey see monkey do" is an expression as old as the hills.
When black people make any kind of reference to crackers, is it racist? Is it racist to say something is spic and span?
Get real EGV.
Speaking of racism, what do you think of AG Eric Holder dropping charges against New Black Panther members who intimidated voters, referring to some white voters as crackers?Posted by: Mary at July 18, 2010 9:45 AM
The George Steinbrenner one was funny.Posted by: LizFromNebraska at July 18, 2010 10:03 AM
Nice touch in the Berwick cartoon to put smoking Obama and Karl Marx portraits on the wall. Very appropriate.
I liked the Steinbrenner one too, Liz.
I'm kind of disappointed in the Maine vacation cartoon that they didn't find a way to work in the environment-friendly First Family's use of a second plane to fly in the First Dog for his vacation.Posted by: Fed Up at July 18, 2010 10:28 AM
An excellent point. Our MSM apparently has much in common with the First Family lapdog.
Speaking of racism, what do you think of Bill Clinton speaking of Senator Byrd's "brush" with the KKK while delivering the late senator's eulogy? Odd he said nothing about Byrd's filibustering civil and voting rights legislation.
Well, what can one expect from the same Bill Clinton who said Obama would have been serving the Clintons their coffee a year prior to his(Obama's) presidential nomination?
"Sure, a sign like that isn't racist - but a sign that says "Obamanomics - Monkey See, Monkey Spend" - like what was at a Denver tea party - that is clearly racist."
No. It's a rewording of the old "Monkey see, monkey do." It refers to ANYBODY who simply reacts without thinking to whatever they see. In Obama's case, he sees it, he spends it.
I think a lot of the problems the Left has with the TEA Party is that most TEA Party folks live in a post-racial world. They really do just judge people by the content of their character. They see Obama as a MAN, not as a BLACK man. So they make the same comments about him that they'd make about a white or Hispanic or Asian person doing or saying the same thing. His race doesn't enter into it. But the Left sees everything through a race lens.Posted by: Christina at July 18, 2010 10:56 AM
"I'm kind of disappointed in the Maine vacation cartoon that they didn't find a way to work in the environment-friendly First Family's use of a second plane to fly in the First Dog for his vacation."
Posted by: Fed Up at July 18, 2010 10:28 AM
Posted by: Janet
at July 18, 2010 11:01 AM
Hi Janet, Bo and an aide flew in separately. I thought "blue dogs" were fiscal conservatives :)Posted by: Fed Up at July 18, 2010 11:20 AM
First clearing up the story about Obama's dog flying in a second jet. The President always has an abundance of others flying with him. The big jet he normally flys on was to big for the air port they flew into, so they had to take 2 smaller jets. His dog did not have his very own private jet, he was in the company of the Presidents staff.
Second, Obama is not just black, he is white. Something he and his own family don't seem to identify with. My niece is mixed black and white and she identifies herself as black. Bi-racials especially it "seems" between black and white have the hardest in this identity.
Third, Ex-GOP Voter...I agree with Mary, in your own mind you see it that way so it is that way. I don't see saying, "Monkey see, Monkey do" or in this case "Monkey See, Monkey Spend" can be a racist remark at all. A Monkey's behavior is to mimmick, that's what they do. I have never in my life ever thought of a person's skin color whenever I have heard that, I thought of behavior...period. When I was a kid we would play follow the leader and without fail someone would act like a monkey!
Forth, I work in the Pro-life mission world, for the most part I know an attack from the devil when I "feel" it. I get these attacks on a regular basis. Mel Gibson brought us "The Passion of Christ" a film so powerful the devil wants to destroy him for it. That film changed peoples lives. I know people who watch that movie without fail every Easter season. A man confessed to murder. People came back to Christ. Remember the stories of conversions? Mel Gibson NEEDS our prayers. He is a sinner like anyone of us. It is rumored he is moving away from Hollywood to his homeland, Australia with Robin, his former wife and some of their kids. I pray he does, it may save his life.Posted by: ann marie at July 18, 2010 11:54 AM
Mary!!! Excellent post! That is exactly what I thought....we just caught you x-GOP exposing yourself as the true racist!
I have been to tea parties. There are many tea partiers who are black and hispanic. The tea party is about a return to the Constitution and fiscal responsibility. Skin color has nothing to do with that. Only the left can't seem to see anything but the color of people's skin. The right has already embrace MLK's dream...we judge on the content of character not on skin pigmentation.Posted by: Sydney M. at July 18, 2010 12:14 PM
Wow - touched a nerve there - just the mere thought that the tea party might have some racism caused, in a few posts:
- Me to be called a racist (my friends from India will get a kick out of that one)
- Eric Holder to be a supporter or racists
- Bill Clinton to be questioned for not bringing up Byrd's racism AT THE GUYS FUNERAL!
Pretty slick - again - must have touched a nerve. The "monkey see" sign came with a drawing - look it up yourself. Though I will say, nice cover-ups - Howard Cosell really could have used you folks in his corner.
I've read all I need to from the study from Parker at the U of Washington - nice to go beyond signs and people's gut feelings and look at the actual data.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 18, 2010 1:16 PM
Ha! you so didn't touch a nerve X-GOP...at least not my nerve. Just calling you out on your hypocrisy!
Ohhh, cool! you have friends from India? My friends from Haiti, Nepal, Niger, China and Guatemala will be sooooo impressed!
I mean really? Like having a couple friends from India is just PROOF you are NOT a racist. HUH?Posted by: Sydney M. at July 18, 2010 1:20 PM
Sydney - quite frankly, you don't know me so hurling charges of racism is not only reckless, but pretty immature. So let's get it to an actual level beyond "I've been to a rally" - do you dispute the numbers from the Washington study that was done and widely circulated?Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 18, 2010 1:23 PM
Sydney - quite frankly, you don't know me so hurling charges of racism is not only reckless, but pretty immature. So let's get it to an actual level beyond "I've been to a rally" - do you dispute the numbers from the Washington study that was done and widely circulated?Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 18, 2010 1:26 PM
Oh I'm sorry X-GOP. You're the one hurling insults. You called us racist because of one sign you heard about that actually wasn't racist but if anything proved your bigotry. When we call you on it you huff how immature we (or I) am. Well fine.
I'll answer your question. This study by the University of Washington proves nothing. Number one, they only had 1000 respondents. No one asked ME if I'm racist and I am a member of the Tea Party. Out of 1000 only 300 some qualified. Out that 300 only 100 were pro-tea party. So really out of 100 people you're gonna get REAL, SCIENTIFIC data on the Tea Party? What a joke!
The way the questions were posed showed the researcher's biases. They asked loaded questions and other pollsters admit that the way this study was conducted was flawed and did not give true, raw date on the TP. It was manipulated to produce the result the researchers wanted.
So no, I don't trust this study. I've actually been there with these so-called "racists". Why don't you do your own research x-GOP? Actually go a tea party and quietly observe. You will find no racists there because the tea party movement isn't about race. Its really only the liberals who try to make EVERYTHING about race.Posted by: Sydney M. at July 18, 2010 2:06 PM
"The "monkey see" sign came with a drawing - look it up yourself"
So only liberals are allowed to characterize a sitting president as a monkey? I just tried to post a comment with links depicting President Bush as a monkey, but it got held for moderation. So I'll retry without active links, you can copy & paste for yourself.
George Bush's physical appearance compared to a monkey: jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/george-bush-monkey-5.jpg
George Bush portrayed as a constitution-shredding monkey: doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/george_w_bush_ds_300.jpg
Dems portray George Bush as a gun-toting monkey: doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/monkey-bush-withagun.jpg
Presidential policy depicted with monkeys: doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/bush_cheney_rumsfeld_chimps1.jpgPosted by: Fed Up at July 18, 2010 2:07 PM
Either it didn't make Jill's top five or she just didn't happen to see it, but I think you all would like this cartoon-- http://cartoonbox.slate.com/hottopic/?image=8&topicid=429Posted by: Kelsey at July 18, 2010 2:21 PM
The other thing I heard about this study is that they didn't actually prove that those who responded with "racist" answers were really tea partiers. For all any of us know they could have been liberal plants. You know the liberals have done that... infiltrated tea parties and acted badly to try to cast us in a bad light...but they were found out!Posted by: Sydney M. at July 18, 2010 2:25 PM
Who made the charge of racism to begin with? Bingo. A drawing? Oh yes, like drawings depicting President Bush as a Nazi, burning him in effigy, and making a movie about his being assassinated. And this is nothing compared to the abuse and ridicule Lyndon Johnson endured. You should have seen some of those drawings. Obama is certainly not the first president to be portrayed in a less than flattering manner.
Please answer the question concerning Eric Holder.
OK let me make it simple. Two klansman stand in front of a voting station hurtling racial slurs at black voters and swing a nightstick. Your reaction please.
One more thing EGV, Indian and Pakistani people are caucasian. Put simply, they're white. Also, I spent my childhood in more diversity than you will ever see in a lifetime so I'm less than impressed with you having friends from India.
EGV, Clinton brought up the fact Byrd was a klansman at his funeral in an attempt to "explain" and "excuse" his actions. The same Bill Clinton who suggested Obama would have been serving him coffee the year before defeating HIllary for the Democrat nomination for president.
No one else did and Clinton didn't need to. Damn if only Byrd had been a Republican. It would sure have made things a lot easier.
Hi Sydney M,
Thank you for the kind words.
Ever notice its the liberals who make an issue of the racial makeup of the tea party movement? How many blacks, women, hispanics, gay people, etc.
Tea partiers don't know or care! Some commentator, I believe it was Keith Odorman, stated that black tea partiers should have been put in front of the camera! These bastions of tolerance should realize this is called tokenism. Can we say "tokenism" boys and girls?
Good. Now see if we can say "patronizing".
Sigh... the left also went crazy on how the billboard comparing three types of socialism and their most famous faces as racist. (I can't remember if it was Lenin or Marx, but the second was Obama and the third Hitler).
How precisely is it racist to compare Obama to two WHITE men? Sorry, but that one confuses me. Obviously they aren't all being lumped together as black men... since they aren't, so the sign, like it or not or think it's effective or not, clearly isn't racist.Posted by: Elisabeth at July 18, 2010 8:35 PM
Sydney - regarding the sample size information and views of the tea party, Parker did some follow-up interviews with polling and research sites - here's his answer directly:
Question: Some readers were puzzled that you reported data for those who either strongly approve or strongly disapprove of the tea party movement. Could you say what share of respondents fall into that category and how each differs from the remaining subset of white respondents who neither strongly approve nor disapprove?
Answer: I understand why some readers are curious about support for the tea party among whites who are not on either end of the distribution. Here's what I have: Based upon 354 valid cases for this item (30% say they never heard of the tea party or have no opinion), 19% (N = 66) strongly disapprove of the tea party; 17% (N = 59) somewhat disapprove of it; 32% (N = 112) somewhat approve of the tea party; and 33% (N = 117) strongly approve of it. (Of course, when those that have never heard of the tea party (30%; N= 157) are included, increasing the number of observations to 511, the cell sizes change: 13% strongly disapprove; 12% somewhat disapprove of it; 22% somewhat approve; and 23% strongly approve of it.)
More details on how these categories differ on a range of relevant issues will follow in the coming days. The results will be available on the WISER website at the University of Washington.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 18, 2010 9:01 PM
How precisely is it racist to compare Obama to two WHITE men?
Elisabeth, I heard an NAACP supporter talking about that today. He said it's racist to compare the president to the others on the billboard because his policies aren't similar to the others. It wasn't about skin color, it was the suggestion that he resembles them in other ways. I'm paraphrasing because I don't recall his exact words.
Was it racist in 2006 for the NAACP chairman to compare Republicans with the Nazis?Posted by: Fed Up at July 18, 2010 9:25 PM
Personally, I don't think it is racist to compare Obama to Nazis - I think it is simply a lack of education or sense of history - the suggestion would be along the lines of a skinhead who simply doesn't get it.
It is free speech though, and good free speech - I think it is good for society to know the people who are slightly smarter than than a horse's behind.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 18, 2010 10:02 PM
Sydney and EGV,
You are right Sydney, this study proves nothing. It only provides evidence supporting a hypothesis. No study ever "proves" anything. It only provides or fails to provide supporting evidence. No responsible researcher will ever claim otherwise. Groups and individuals however will jump on studies that "prove" what they have believed all along.
EGV I would suggest that you not ever limit yourself to one study simply because it reinforces what you believe to be true. If you know anything about research, you will realize that this study does not give you all you need to know, it only reinforces what you want to believe. Be assured that another researcher will be prepared to discredit this study and will likely succeed, and yet another researcher will follow that one. As I pointed out to Sydney, no responsible researcher ever claims his/her study settles an issue or gives a final answer.Posted by: Mary at July 18, 2010 10:27 PM
Like Hitler and Lenin, Obama is a socialist. That's nothing racial. Like HItler, Obama is taking over industry, the financial system and health care. Hitler was a street thug who mesmerized the German people. Obama is a Chicago thug who mesmerized the American people.
Skinheads are nothing but anarchists and social rejects.Posted by: Mary at July 18, 2010 10:33 PM
Mary - Thanks Mary for the opinions...again, I love free speech because it is good to figure out some stuff about people.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 19, 2010 6:19 AM
Oh, and Mary - I've got a deal for you. See, I believe Sarah Palin is a Communist spy - so, if you see any Jewish citizens being rounded up, you give me a call and I promise to join you to fight the nazis. If I see the Russians moving in, can I give you a call and you can come help me? It only seems fair.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 19, 2010 6:48 AM
You're not making a lot of sense. But like you said, free speech is good to figure out some stuff about people.Posted by: Mary at July 19, 2010 6:59 AM
Mary, it's interesting that EGV chose to ridicule instead of countering your claim with anything substantial to suggest that PBHO's policies are disconnected from his ties to marxist groups.Posted by: Fed Up at July 19, 2010 9:20 AM
Hi Fed Up. Mary's claim ( "Like HItler, Obama is taking over industry, the financial system and health care") is too outlandish to get a response other than ridicule. I swear you guys should just hide in a basement somewhere until this all blows over, your crazy is showing.Posted by: Hal at July 19, 2010 12:31 PM
x-GOP, you are entitled to your opinion. But I am curious what about Sarah Palin makes you think she is a communist spy? Or were you trying to be funny and failing miserably?Posted by: Sydney M. at July 19, 2010 12:32 PM
Hal, you're a fool if you don't see that Obama is taking over these industries. I'm sure you're a nice guy...not saying anything about that...but you're a FOOL nonetheless. History has shown this is how despots start time and time and time again and yet there are always the fools like you who stand there as their liberties are eroded and call those who are patriots "crazy". How can you choose to be so blind? Open up your eyes man! Obama doesn't even hide his agenda and yet you can't see it. FOOLISH!Posted by: Sydney M. at July 19, 2010 12:36 PM
Very funny, Hal.
Our liberty is being eroded by a despot, how have I failed to notice that? Oh, right, I don't watch Fox News.
If you're really worried about our liberties, contribute to your local ACLU, that's what I'd do.
Of course you would.
I agree with EGV -- I am African American and if I saw I sign with a picture of Obama "monkey see, monkey do," it would bother me.Posted by: phillymiss at July 19, 2010 3:31 PM
I agree with EGV -- the wording could be construed as racist. I am African American and if I saw I sign with a picture of Obama "monkey see, monkey spend," it rub me the wrong way.Posted by: phillymiss at July 19, 2010 3:32 PM
phillymiss @ 3:32 PM,
I see you point. The message is either racist and/or just plain ignorant.Posted by: Janet at July 19, 2010 5:04 PM
"I see your point."Posted by: Janet at July 19, 2010 5:05 PM
On what planet do you reside? Or is your messianic trance clouding your vision? Have you heard of Obama Motors, formerly known as GM? Are you oblivious to the fact that "health reform" was passed? "Financial reform" is just more gov't control.
You'd contribute to the local ACLU? No surprise there.Posted by: Mary at July 19, 2010 5:27 PM
Janet and phillymiss,
I do not connect people to animals so apparently I am missing something here.
Sorry but I don't see the point at all concerning the monkey. That expression "monkey see monkey do", is older than I am(I'll elaborate no further) and never had any racial connotation to it. Ever see the three monkeys covering their eyes, mouth, and ears? See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil. "Monkey see monkey do" was an expression we used all the time as children, or we called someone a "copycat". Does that give cats some racial connotation? We played "monkey in the middle". One of us would be the "monkey" trying to catch the ball. Our black friends also played and apparently saw no racial connotation.
I suppose obese people could be just as offended by the bloated pig often used to represent our gov't. "Porker" is often used to slander obese people so I suppose they could take offense at "pork" spending by our politicians.
Little people could equally be offended when something is referred to as "being dwarfed".
Come on, people of every race, religion, and ethnicity have been crudely stereotyped. People could just as easily be offended by "NIP it in the bud", "SPIC and span", "I wouldn't touch something with a ten foot POLE". If we try hard enough to be offended we will succeed.Posted by: Mary at July 19, 2010 5:47 PM
Mary, I agree. We are all far too sensitive. What about all those black panther's that stood there talking about killing "crackers". I'm white. I found their hate and death threats against my child offensive. But am I to now call Ritz and tell them they must change their name on the box because "cracker" is offensive to me?
Come on people. Choose to stop being so thin-skinned no matter the color! There will always be people that hate you no matter what race you are. Choose to not let it affect you. I don't. I'm hate by black racists for being white, and I'm hated by liberals for being a patriot. I don't let it bother me.Posted by: Sydney M. at July 19, 2010 6:06 PM
Sydney - my point is that I view the thought of Obama being a socialist as paranoia (and a bad understanding of socialism). So if she can throw out that Obama is a socialist, I can throw out an equally odd claim.
We all know Palin can't remember facts, so the thought of her being a spy is laughable (okay, that's a bad attempt at humor!).
". . . and I'm hated by liberals for being a patriot."
Posted by: Sydney M. at July 19, 2010 6:06 PM
Is that what you think? You really don't understand.Posted by: Hal at July 19, 2010 6:15 PM
Hi Sydney M,
And aren't the terms "trailer trash" and "rednecks" thrown around very freely? Apparently stereotyping and ridiculing white people is acceptable.
Even Clinton lapdog James Carville talked of dragging 5 dollars through a trailer court and who knows what you will get. This was in reference to Paula Jones' accusations against Bill Clinton. I don't recall an iota of outrage.
Now imagine if he had said a black neighborhood, a Native American reservation, or a barrio instead of a trailer court.
Why would you argue Obama is not a socialist?Posted by: Mary at July 19, 2010 7:21 PM
Good question, Mary, especially in light of PBHO's involvement with groups such as the DSA, Committees of Correspondence, New Party, etc. Didn't he invite us during his campaign to judge him by the people with whom he surrounds himself?Posted by: Fed Up at July 19, 2010 7:33 PM
There was also Obama's association with terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. Sorry, I don't buy it that he only waved to them when he took out his garbage. Not to mention his talk of redistributing the wealth and his takeover of health care by bribery, coercion, and quite frankly, sticking his middle finger in the faces of the American people.Posted by: Mary at July 19, 2010 7:39 PM
You provide an excellent source on his background. Thank you.
Posted by: Mary at July 19, 2010 7:43 PM
Hi again, Mary. I thought I'd stick to groups and political parties since Dems try to downplay PBHO's individual associations, but your point is well taken. It's difficult to explain why PBHO would have ties to marxist political parties unless he agreed with their platform or deceived them for votes.Posted by: Fed Up at July 19, 2010 8:01 PM
Mary - short answer - Socialists (various socialistic parties out there) say his policies aren't even close. Look for interviews of members of the American Socialist Party. If he was a socialist, believe me, they'd be happy to embrace him and say they are finally making progress with their views in the country.
Quite frankly - he believes in a progressive tax system. Ronald Reagan also believed in a progressive tax system. So maybe they are both socialists?Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 19, 2010 8:11 PM
You didn't answer my question. Why would YOU argue that Obama's actions are not socialist?
Also, I hope you check out FedUp's excellent post on Obama's past associations.
Do you deny Obama used bribery and coercion to force gov't run health care on the American people who still do not want it? Check out realclearpolitics.com.
Let's see, the Cornhusker kickback, the Louisiana purchase, oh and that executive order for Stupak that wasn't worth wiping his fanny with?
Obama speakes of redistribution of wealth. How pray tell is this to take place? Exactly who are the "rightful owners" Obama refers to? His union supporters?Posted by: Mary at July 19, 2010 8:34 PM
I answered it exactly as I would answer it - the people who are legit socialists say he isn't a socialist. He's into progressive taxation -just like every other President for years. Quite simply, that isn't socialism.
Do you know what Socialism is?Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 19, 2010 8:36 PM
Do you? If so answer my question. Exactly why would YOU argue Obama is not a socialist? I don't want their opinions, I want yours.
Also, do you deny Obama forced government run health care on the American people against their will?
Please tell me exactly what you consider to be "progressive taxation".Posted by: Mary at July 19, 2010 8:46 PM
Seriously Mary - this is an odd game. I would say he isn't a Socialist because those who know Socialism best say he isn't a Socialist. That is good enough for me. If somebody says they are a Republican, and you want to know if they are, ask a Republican.
On the health care poll - the latest Gallup on it has a majority of people 18-64 (divided across three age groups) all saying reform was a good idea. Only age group against it was 65 plus - people on government health care. Go figure. So no, it wasn't against the will of the people.
Last question on it - progressive taxation - you can go right to Wiki - the basic concept is that higher earners get taxed at a higher rate than lower earners.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 19, 2010 8:50 PM
If he was a socialist, believe me, they'd be happy to embrace him ...
DSA campaigned for him and served in several of his campaign posts in 08. Communist Party USA also worked hard to get him elected in 08. But I'm guessing that's not a tight enough "embrace" for you.
He's into progressive taxation
Which is precisely what the DSA calls for. See page 2 of their newsletter here, item #1 of 4 on the right column.Posted by: Fed Up at July 19, 2010 8:51 PM
FedUp - Okay - I'll bite. So please explain the tax rate differences between Obama and Reagan.
Thanks,Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 19, 2010 9:04 PM
EGV, the question isn't about Reagan. The question is whether Obama's ties to marxist groups influence his current policy. Do you have any evidence that Reagan was tied to marxist groups? I'd be willing to look at it if you do.Posted by: Fed Up at July 19, 2010 9:11 PM
Obama is not a Socialist because:
- Ron Paul is a smart guy and says he isn't - “In the technical sense, in the economic definition, he is not a socialist, he’s a corporatist,” Paul quickly added, meaning the president takes “care of corporations and corporations take over and run the country.” (at the Southern Republican Leadership Conference)
- Socialist foreign policy would have called for an immediate removal of all troops. Obama expanded Afghanistan
- Socialist health care would have demanded single payer system, which was easily dropped
- Socialist financial system would have called for massive nationalization efforts - long term - not just through stabilization (which many on both aisles supported)
Obama is simply a capitalist that believes in a progressive tax system. While Reagan had similar rates and worked to balance the budget with lower spending, Obama is caught in higher spending, in part because of the economy needing stimulus - and in part because of many new programs since Reagan's time.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 19, 2010 9:23 PM
Doesn't wash. These various groups may have their own perspective, some more radical than others. I asked for YOUR perspective and you have yet to give it to me. Ask a Republican? Well there are RINOs. There are "moderates". There are conservatives. Who's perspective do I use?
Check realclearpolitics.com for a consensus of polls. The average is 38% favor 50.5% oppose.
Yes it was against the will of the American people EGV. You still haven't explained the need for the cornhusker kickback and the Lousiana purchase if the American people truly supported this. Why did votes have to be bought? Why did Obama have to sign a worthless EO?
I put down my perspective, probably while you were writing this.
On health care - there's a big difference in not liking it and wanting to repeal it. In fact, a new bloomberg news poll put the number opposed to repealing at over 60%. Gallup was over 50%. Many don't like it but want to see how it works.
On the process - have you never followed how these big bills go down? I'll continue this conversation if you go read the medicare prescription drug expansion. This stuff always happens - it isn't pretty, and the public forgets pretty quickly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Prescription_Drug,_Improvement,_and_Modernization_Act#Legislative_historyPosted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 19, 2010 9:36 PM
Here's an interesting take on the Ron Paul statement.
As for foreign policy, you are right that Afghanistan doesn't fall lockstep in with socialism, however other aspects of his international policy appear more in keeping with the socialists.
Socialist health care would have demanded single payer system, which was easily dropped
However PBHO is on record as saying it's his preferred system. PPACA sets up insurance companies to fail and paves the way for single payer except for the rich (and political) elites. Even if you disagree with my assessment on that, if you read the bill, it contains single payer language inserted by Bernie Sanders. It wasn't "easily dropped," it was a little-discussed provision that irritated Sanders and Kucinich because it doesn't kick in until late this decade (don't ask which year because I forget now, if I had to guess I'd say 2017 or 18)
- Socialist financial system would have called for massive nationalization efforts - long term - not just through stabilization (which many on both aisles supported)
Incrementalism instead of massive takeover is still takeover in steps. And you are correct that some in the GOP swing left on this. Still, the question isn't about the GOP. It's whether PBHO's marxist ties influence his policy, not whether he implements it lockstep.
Obama is simply a capitalist
I agree that he has personally benefited greatly under capitalism. I am troubled by how closely his agenda (or the progressive agenda, if you prefer) mirrors the agenda of professed socialists. I am also troubled by his associations with marxist groups. Does he or does he not owe the American people an explanation of his reasons for ties with these political parties? I'm not talking about individual acquaintances. I'm talking about political groups and parties.Posted by: Fed Up at July 19, 2010 9:52 PM
Come on EGV,
Again I asked for YOUR opinion, not Ron Paul's! According to ronpaul.com he is the leading voice for limited constitutional gov't, low taxes, free markets, and sound monetary policies. Everything Obama is not. He is expressing his opinion. I want yours.
Socialist health care. Open your eyes EGV, insurance companies are targetted and people will be forced into a single payer system. Companies have been forced to drop coverage and increase prices. All part of Obama's grand scheme for gov't control. Did you hear of that "recess appt"? Dr. Berwick. An advocate of rationing and an admirer of the British "health care" system. Why do you suppose Obama appointed him without the advise and consent of the senate?
What stabilization are you referring to? No, nationalization would be slow and insidious, like Chavez in Venezuela, that darling of the American left who's backside Obama kissed to no avail. It would occur under the cover of "reform", as in health care and financial so as to bamboozle people like you.
What would socialism have to do with our troops in Afghanistan?
If Obama were a capitalist he would realize that excessive taxing only slows the economy and would be fighting for tax cuts. He would allow free market forces in health care instead of bribery and coercion into gov't control. He would realize that a moratorium on offshore drilling puts thousands of Americans out of work, and only sends jobs overseas.
Open your eyes EGV.Posted by: Mary at July 19, 2010 9:55 PM
Have a great night. I don't think I can express my own opinion 20 straight times to meet your criteria.
The nice thing is, there aren't many folks left still buying this "socialist" thing. The country has gotten smart enough to at least understand the basics of socialism and how it would actually apply to daily life. I mean, look up the foreign policy parts at least - the party you are expressing ignorance.
We can be done - you didn't read my posting - I don't think you are listening at all. You have your mind made up and a mind like yours isn't changed easily - and I don't care to be the one that tries.
Gotta head to bed - the morning will come early.
You have yet to tell me why YOU think he's not a socialist.
According to Rasmussen 61% of Americans expect costs to rise under Obamacare and 56% favor repeal.
The latest poll by Democracy Corps, a firm of James Carville and Stan Greenberg has 55% of Americans considering "socialist" as a reasonably accurate way of describing Obama.
Have a good night EGV. The morning does indeed come quickly.Posted by: Mary at July 19, 2010 10:18 PM
there aren't many folks left still buying this "socialist" thing
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 19, 2010 9:59 PM
This is an interview transcript from the website of that "smart guy" Ron Paul:
David Asman: "Kicking off tonight; “Obama’s a socialist”. Now that’s the view of 55% of American voters, according to a new poll. Now this isn’t coming from a Republican pollster. It comes from Democracy Core. This is a poling group started by a life long democratic operative, James Carville and his partner, Stan Greenberg. When this group asked 1000 voters in mid June “How well does the term ’socialist’ fits President Obama?”, 55% said well or very well."
Here's a quote from the "smart guy" himself in the same interview:
Ron Paul: "But you know, we could be a stickler for a precise definition of socialism, but he certainly is socialistic. He doesn’t come out and advocate total ownership of insurance companies and drug companies and health management companies, but he works very hard with them. So it’s a form of corporatism, which lends itself to socialism. I think it’s very dangerous. I usually like to use the word ‘authoritarian’. People who are authoritarian are very socialistic and it can lead to total socialism and I’m afraid that’s the way we’re going."Posted by: Fed Up at July 19, 2010 10:21 PM
I can't pretend to know if the intent of the sign maker was to express a racist remark and I don't mean to suggest that ever person at the rally (Tea Party?) is racist because of one sign. The young man holding the sign looked about 15 years old. Who knows what teens are thinking! (The sign said "Obamanomics: Monkey See, Monkey Spend" with a small drawing of a cartoon monkey's head to the left side of the lettering and dollar signs above the monkey's head.) I can see how it could be offensive to an African American who has experienced racism in the past, but benign to someone who hasn't. I respect phillymiss' right to express her feeings that she is somewhat uncomfortable with such a sign.
Posted by: Janet
at July 19, 2010 11:05 PM
I certainly support phillymiss' right to express any viewpoint she chooses. My concern Janet is that people read too much into what people say and do. Monkey see and spend is a play on an old old expression that never had a racial connotation. Obamanomics is being criticized here as careless spending, using this old adage. I fail to see the racist connotation in this and I think we need to concentrate our time and energy on more important things than looking for ways to be offended or reading into something what just isn't there. As I said, obese people can see "pork spending" and a bloated pig symbolizing our gov't as a slap at them. How often have obese people been ridiculed as "porkers", "pigs" and "beached whales". I find this very offensive and would never in a million years insult an obese person in this manner, but I certainly don't see references to pork spending as a slur against obese people.
BTW, I find it disturbing how the term "trailer trash" is thrown around. To suggest people are "trash" because of their place of residence is very extreme and degrading, yet there was not an iota of protest when James Carville, speaking of Paula Jones, suggested that you never know what you will get when you drag $5.00 through a trailer park.
Mary- my 9:23 PM statement summed up my views. I have not had a moment where he's held my hand, looked into my eyes, and told me his thoughts - so I apologize for that lack of a personal statement.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 20, 2010 5:05 PM
And to those who accuse the tea party of being racist...I have two words. Sherry Sherrod.
Google it. There are racist people and it ain't the tea party!Posted by: Sydney M. at July 20, 2010 9:39 PM
Ummmm, Sydney, have you not been following the story since it originally broke? It has taken a bit of a turn.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 20, 2010 10:06 PM
Sydney M, are calling Ms Sherrod a racist or are you referring to the approval that can be heard from the NAACP members in the audience? If it's true that her remarks were taken out of context and she was relating a past experience that caused her to confront her racism and move past it, then I don't condemn her personally. The audience reaction, however, does reflect poorly on the NAACP.Posted by: Fed Up at July 20, 2010 10:07 PM
Hi FedUp and Sydney,
Maybe the audience understood her perspective and was empathizing, I think we have all been there with our own personal prejudices, and applauded her change of heart. Judging another person's reaction is subjective, I may be offended, you may see no reason at all to take offense. IMHO this is another example of jumping the gun, like with the monkey protest sign, and drawing the wrong conclusions. None of us are immune.Posted by: Mary at July 21, 2010 6:03 AM
Posted by: Mary
at July 21, 2010 6:17 AM
There is news out now that the MSM honchos deliberately surpressed accounts of Obama's pastor Rev. Wright and his rantings to protect Obama's presidential candidacy. Its obvious the MSM were and are Obama lapdogs, but if this is true I never thought it went to this extreme. George Stephanopoulus(sp?)was referred to as a "rat snake" by one such honcho for daring to question Obama concerning his pastor.
Mary - super quick question - who do you define as the MSM?Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 21, 2010 6:21 AM
ABC, CBS, NBC, Time and Newsweek Magazine, MSNBC, to name a few. I found it a little unsettling when Tom Brokaw and Charlie Rose admitted they were clueless about Obama. I thought that was their job to inform us. Check out Michael Savage's(of who I am not a fan) and Rush's website for a full documented account of how the MSM sought to protect Obama. I
Oh I understand it was Fox News that may have jumped the gun concerning Ms.Sherrod. If true, I strongly condemn their actions and will continue to be wary. I will give credit where due, while I am no big fan of Glen Beck he did support Ms.Sherrod.Posted by: Mary at July 21, 2010 6:40 AM
I must admit I found pics of Obama on the cover of either Time or Newsweek, with what looked like a halo a tad over the top, not to mention Chris Matthews and his leg tingles. One could almost hear the celestial choir. I used to receive both rags for years but finally cancelled.
Then there was Tom Brokaw at the inaugaration and his entranced seagulls. My opinion was the flying rats were just scoping out all the garbage they could feed on.
Mary @ 2:26,
I hate the term "trailer trash" too. I would never say it and rarely hear it, but when I do, it's a shock. It's no wonder we can abort babies and throw them in the trash when we can show such insensitivity and disrespect for our fellow man.
Mary @ 6:03AM, excellent point, thank you for giving me an additional perspective. Speaking of biased media coverage, have you seen these comments by Mary Frances Berry, Pres. Clinton's former chair of the Civil Rights Commission?
"Tainting the tea party movement with the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. There is no evidence that tea party adherents are any more racist than other Republicans, and indeed many other Americans. But getting them to spend their time purging their ranks and having candidates distance themselves should help Democrats win in November. Having one’s opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness." Source: PoliticoPosted by: Fed Up at July 21, 2010 10:45 AM
Just heard the rest of the Sherrod tape. It was taken out of context so I retract that.Posted by: Sydney M. at July 21, 2010 12:55 PM
Mary - thanks - I would throw Fox in the MSM as well. What is interesting is how many people harp on the MSM, though I don't know many people who watch any of those stations.
Places like Newsweek - it all depends on your bias. Sure, they lean left - I've read a lot of articles though that are very complimentary towards GOPers.
I think with the Sherrod deal...there's a lot of people out there with digital cameras and editing machines - and unfortunately, a lot of people (on both sides) are more interested in making an issue than telling the truth.
Between you and me (and anyone else reading) - I truly believe racism exists in pockets of the tea party. I also believe that racism exists within pockets of the NAACP, the GOP, and Dems, and everyone else. I really wish that if the NAACP had an issue, they would have talked to somebody in the tea party about it. Who knows - maybe some conversation would have helped the two sides see each others point. Fighting through the media and making proclamations and such - it is just so unhelpful if you ask me.Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at July 21, 2010 7:23 PM
I would add that I wish the NAACP would concern themselves more with innocent black people being gunned down by street gangs who shoot first and might ask questions later. I was horrified to hear of black children being randomly gunned down in front of their schools or while out trick or treating.
Yes, sadly racism exists and always will, just like every other human failing.Posted by: Mary at July 21, 2010 8:44 PM