by Chuck Asay...
Good one, Jill. Sadly, I do know some people who are just that self-contradictory.Posted by: Doyle at July 6, 2008 6:56 AM
Great comic that holds a lot of truth.
Well, seeing as how Obama is patriotic and is in fact against gay marriage (he's for civil unions), I only see a compromise in the pro life issue, and amongst the populace, abortion isn't the end all be all issue right now, and seems not to have been for awhile except for those who are thoroughly on one end of the spectrum. I really don't see much of a contradiction there, the cartoonist should have made better choices if he was trying to satire Obama and/or his supporters.Posted by: Dan at July 6, 2008 8:38 AM
This comic is only funny if one forgets that there are issues besides gay marriage and abortion at hand in this presidential election. At present, I don't see anything strange about an anti-gay-marriage, anti-abortion person voting for Obama vecause of his positions on the war, taxation or the environment.
I just wish that infrastructure were a bigger issue this time. No one's touching it.Posted by: DRF at July 6, 2008 9:05 AM
This cartoon is pretty depressing. What happened to the good 'ole days when cartoons were funny and uplifting?Posted by: Janet at July 6, 2008 11:03 AM
Here, here you go Janet...
The abortion issue is a fundamental issue. It dwarfs everything else. It is the Christian's duty to not vote for any politican who does not stand firmly against abortion.
Why? Becasue the shedding of innocent blood pollutes the land more than carbon emissions, more than DDT, more than oil spills, more than any other physical substance. Because the shedding of innocent blood moves the heart of God to action.
Historically, the ones shedding innocent blood always paid a heavy price. Be it Cain, the Israelites, Romans, Germany, Japan, or this country in the Civil War. If legalized abortion does not stop, we will have to deal with God's required justice. How will that justice be metered out? I'm not sure. I just know that God has restrained Himself for a time in hopes that the church would repent of their inaction against abortion. Don't think for a minute that 9/11 wasn't a warning and we are almost at the 7 year anniversary mark of that horrific event.
Perhaps a psunami or earthquake or uncontrollable wildfires will hit the West Coast, perhaps the eruption of a volcano like Yellowstone, or Mt. Hood, perhaps a drought in the NE, perhaps nuclear attack(s) by Muslim extremists, any of which would devastate our economy and country and make 9/11 look like a tea party. We don't realize how fragile our country is, it's power grid, it's food supply, the internet, its financial system.
To place the abortion issue on the back burner is a very serious mistake.Posted by: HisMan at July 6, 2008 1:04 PM
It's not that the issue isn't the end all be all issue for folks right now...it's the fact that it SHOULD be but isn't.
Apathy does not mean that the stakes aren't high.
The holocaust wasn't the end all be all issue in Germany either, but it SHOULD have been.Posted by: mk at July 6, 2008 1:09 PM
"I just know that God has restrained Himself for a time in hopes that the church would repent of their inaction against abortion. Don't think for a minute that 9/11 wasn't a warning and we are almost at the 7 year anniversary mark of that horrific event."
How do you know what God is thinking? How do you know that your God even exists? You're placing all your eggs in a book that isn't even consistent. In Genesis after the great flood God says that he will never destroy the Earth like that again. Then comes Revelations. Also there are so many different interpretations of the Bible from so many different religious organizations do you really know which one is the right one?
And what exactly was 9/11 punishing us for? Maybe Katrina was punishing people in the Bible belt for putting all their faith in a book.Posted by: Jess at July 6, 2008 1:18 PM
And did God really fly those planes into the World Trade Center? I could have sworn it was terrorists. Well, actually, God is a terrorist. Looks like he killed more people then abortion ever could.
He only promised not to FLOOD the earth again. Not that He wouldn't ever wreak havoc again.
But I'm not sure punish is the right word. I think it's more like a wake up call. There's no Christian like an atheist in a foxhole, right?Posted by: mk at July 6, 2008 1:45 PM
Jess asks: "And did God really fly those planes into the World Trade Center?"
Why no, Jess, haven't you heard? Reverend Wright=Wrong said it was our own government agents that flew those planes into the World Trade Towers.
Well, actually, God is a terrorist
Huh? Why would you say THAT?Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at July 6, 2008 2:39 PM
The cartoon is really pretty silly, outside of a ludicrously limited context that wouldn't apply to any significant number of rational people in the first place.Posted by: Doug at July 6, 2008 3:54 PM
Jess, Thanks for the link, I think. :D
Elizabeth, Glad to see you are still around. You ask a good question!
HisMan: I just know that God has restrained Himself for a time in hopes that the church would repent of their inaction against abortion. Don't think for a minute that 9/11 wasn't a warning and we are almost at the 7 year anniversary mark of that horrific event.
I believe you are right when you say God has restrained Himself for a time. Maybe you have heard of The Diary of Saint Faustina and the Divine Mercy Chaplet. It is appropriate to pray the Chaplet during the "Hour of Great Mercy" — three o'clock each afternoon (recalling the time of Christ’s death on the cross). In His revelations to St. Faustina, Our Lord asked for a special remembrance of His Passion at that hour.
Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world; for the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us. (Diary, 475)Posted by: Janet at July 6, 2008 3:59 PM
In the bible, God did kill a lot of people for no apparent reason. Look at those two guys who tried to catch the ark of the covenant when it was falling over. They were just trying to be helpful and boom they're dead.Posted by: JKeller at July 6, 2008 4:00 PM
God commanded that the ark could not be touched. Uzzah in 2 Sam 6 knew this yet touched it anyway. A beautiful exegesis of this passage and the justice that is found in what God did is found in R.C. Sproul's magnificent masterpiece "The Holiness of God." God love you.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 6, 2008 4:07 PM
Hi Bobby, Good to see you!Posted by: Janet at July 6, 2008 4:20 PM
Thanks Janet. Good to be "seen."Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 6, 2008 6:23 PM
In the bible, God did kill a lot of people for no apparent reason. Look at those two guys who tried to catch the ark of the covenant when it was falling over. They were just trying to be helpful and boom they're dead.
There is a HUGE difference between dying and being killed! lol.
We will ALL die. Each and every one of us. Does that mean that God will have "Killed" us? The whole point of living is to die. For all you know, you were alive in a different way before you were born and the act of being born into this world was the act of dying in another.
God doesn't kill people. He allows them to die. And we wouldn't have to die at all if Adam and Eve had made a different choice.Posted by: mk at July 6, 2008 6:46 PM
Elizabeth, I think a lot of Christian religions use the, "Do whatever we say or go to hell" to terrorize people into conforming to their agenda.Posted by: Jess at July 6, 2008 8:58 PM
Elizabeth, I think a lot of Christian religions use the, "Do whatever we say or go to hell" to terrorize people into conforming to their agenda.
Posted by: Jess at July 6, 2008 8:58 PM
Jess, Where in the world did that come from? Why are you so intent on knocking Christianity? Now Christians are "terrorists"? With an "agenda"? Did you feel terrorized as a child? I'm sorry if you did. What is the motivation of these so-called "terrorists"? Power? Money? Please Jess, take a few religion classes!
Posted by: Janet
at July 6, 2008 11:11 PM
How do I know what God is thinking?
I know what is revealed in His Word and it says His thoughts toward us are for our good. He warns us not to do certain things because He loves us. He created the Universe, so He should know. A God who would not spare His own Son for our good will not spare us from a major disaster if that's what it takes for us to wake up and humbly seek Him.
And God did not say that He would not destroy the world again, He said He would never destroy it again by flood.
And God does not punish us; He disciplines us as a good Father disciplines His children. One is not, however, His child if one does not believe in Him. In fact, all those who don't believe in Him have the devil as their father and He abandons them to their disobedience as He abandoned a third of the angels when satan rebelled against God. That's what the book says.
As I said before, the shedding of the innocent blood of millions of children cries out for justice. God will answer, He has to answer, His nature demands that He answer. The time, the place, the how are not known.
As dark clouds gathering signal the coming of a storm, the signs of a mega-disaster are all around us. You think it a coincidence that Katrina means cleansing? Scientists say that California is ready to pop. With the gays in CA sticking their noses up at God by legalizing gay marriage we nudge ourselves further towards the brink. In fact, many insurance companies are now training adjusters on assessing earthquake damage because they know the big one is way over due on the West Coast. Do you realize what a magnitude 7 earthquake would do to LA and this country? Can you spell Depression?
Authorities know that it is just a matter of time before Al-Qaida hits us hard. China is missing 17 pounds of enriched uranium, enough to make a few suitcase size nukes. We are in big, big trouble folks and we better wake up and legalized abortion is the reason. God absolutely hates injustice and there nothing more unjust than the taking of an innocent human life growing inside a mother's womb.
I do know God would rather love and forgive us than punish us, however, if we continue in obstinate rebellion, He will have no choice. This is why I am so forceful about my posts, I really, really sense something big coming and the church can avert it by repenting, praying, humbling themselves before God and seeking His face. I love all you guys and I want so much for us all to turn to Him, admit our wrongs and He will forgive, He will heal, He will bless.
I have seen many miracles in my Christian walk. However, there is no greater miracle than for an unbeliever to become a believer. Even though what you do breaks God's heart, He still loves you and wants relationship with you. How about it?
Tricksy tricksy little devils down in Dixie, throw abortion in the mixie, see if the babe lives and kicksies...
Too much anger, too much hate. The other cheek should turn while you clean your slate...
We're here, we're there. Question is, why do we care?
NaniboujouPosted by: Naniboujou at July 7, 2008 2:10 AM
the comic would have been more even more effective example of hypocrisy if she said she was a Christian voting for Obama
In Genesis after the great flood God says that he will never destroy the Earth like that again. Then comes Revelations.
Jess: Revelations refers to Jerusalem, although my Protestant bretheren may disagree!Posted by: Patricia at July 7, 2008 7:05 AM
Right. We would say that Revelation has to do with the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem (and the mass but that's a moot point). So given that there is at least one plausible explanation to explain an an alleged contradiction, that alleged contradiction is no longer a valid criticism.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 7, 2008 7:10 AM
Does anyone know: Is there a single word in praise of INTELLIGENCE in the Bible?Posted by: SoMG at July 7, 2008 2:00 PM
No SoMG, and the reason is that grace is of a completely different order than natural intelligence. All the intelligence of every brilliant mind combined does not even come close to to even the smallest supernatural grace. This is true of all the theological virtues (faith, hope, charity) as well as the cardinal virtues (justice, temperance, fortitude, prudence). All virtues are supernatural, hence infinitely superior to any intelligence.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 7, 2008 2:11 PM
SoMG...I believe the closest one would be of "Wisdom"...wherein King Solomon personally requested it.Posted by: RSD at July 7, 2008 3:48 PM
It's what we keep trying to tell you SoMG,
You claim to enjoy lording your intelligence over us and we are not impressed. Reciting facts, memorizing data...all gone in the blink of Alzheimers...but kindness, wisdom, joy...those are the gifts you want...
“Fathers and teachers, I ponder, What is hell?
I maintain that hell is the suffering of being unable to love.”
Are you capable of love, SoMG?
Posted by: mk at July 7, 2008 3:53 PM
Elizabeth, I think a lot of Christian religions use the, "Do whatever we say or go to hell" to terrorize people into conforming to their agenda.
So HOW is that GOD being a TERRORIST like you said?
Oh, AND, this is AMERICA...nobody's forced to be part of a religion that they don't want to be. At least when they become a legal adult that is..if you're a minor, I guess your parents have a say in what religion you are..but I wouldn't call THAT terrorism.Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at July 7, 2008 3:58 PM
MK, you wrote: "Are you capable of love, SoMG?"
"Bei Männern, welche Liebe fühlen,
Fehlt auch ein gutes Herze nicht.
Die süßen Triebe mitzufühlen
Ist dann der Weiber erster Pflicht.
Wir wollen uns der Liebe freun
Wir leben durch die Lieb allein.
Die Lieb versüßet jede Plage,
Ihr opfert jede Kreatur.
Sie würzet unsre Lebenstage
Sie winkt im Kreise der Natur.
Ihr hoher Zweck zeigt deutlich an
Nichts edlers sei als Weib und Mann,
Mann und Weib und Weib und Mann
Reichen an die Gottheit an."
--DIE ZAUBERFLOTE. (The Mozart opera to learn after you have learned FIGARO and DON G.)Posted by: SoMG at July 7, 2008 4:19 PM
The Magic Flute is my favorite Opera, SoMG. I don't know the lyrics too well though. I'm trying to figure out which movement this is. Does Papageno (sp??) sing this?Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 7, 2008 4:28 PM
SOMG, the Bible speaks of gaining knowledge, but from strongs, it is referring to discernment, understanding, and wisdom, which is much more than just simple book smarts.
Below are all of the verses from Proverbs which include the word "knowledge":
Posted by: Bethany
at July 7, 2008 4:37 PM
Pro 5:2 That thou mayest regard discretion, and [that] thy lips may keep knowledge.
Pro 8:9 They [are] all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
Pro 8:10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
Pro 8:12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
Pro 10:14 Wise [men] lay up knowledge: but the mouth of the foolish [is] near destruction.
Pro 11:9 An hypocrite with [his] mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.
Pro 12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof [is] brutish.
Pro 12:23 A prudent man concealeth knowledge: but the heart of fools proclaimeth foolishness.
Pro 13:16 Every prudent [man] dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open [his] folly.
Pro 14:6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and [findeth it] not: but knowledge [is] easy unto him that understandeth.
Pro 14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not [in him] the lips of knowledge.
Pro 14:18 The simple inherit folly: but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.
Pro 15:2 The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.
Pro 15:7 The lips of the wise disperse knowledge: but the heart of the foolish [doeth] not so.
Pro 15:14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.
Pro 17:27 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: [and] a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.
Pro 18:15 The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge; and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge.
Pro 19:2 Also, [that] the soul [be] without knowledge, [it is] not good; and he that hasteth with [his] feet sinneth.
Pro 19:25 Smite a scorner, and the simple will beware: and reprove one that hath understanding, [and] he will understand knowledge.
Pro 19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction [that causeth] to err from the words of knowledge.
Pro 20:15 There is gold, and a multitude of rubies: but the lips of knowledge [are] a precious jewel.
Pro 21:11 When the scorner is punished, the simple is made wise: and when the wise is instructed, he receiveth knowledge.
Pro 22:12 The eyes of the LORD preserve knowledge, and he overthroweth the words of the transgressor.
Pro 22:17 Bow down thine ear, and hear the words of the wise, and apply thine heart unto my knowledge.
Pro 22:20 Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge,
Pro 23:12 Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.
Pro 24:4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.
Pro 24:5 A wise man [is] strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.
Pro 24:14 So [shall] the knowledge of wisdom [be] unto thy soul: when thou hast found [it], then there shall be a reward, and thy expectation shall not be cut off.
Pro 28:2 For the transgression of a land many [are] the princes thereof: but by a man of understanding [and] knowledge the state [thereof] shall be prolonged.
Pro 30:3 I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.
Bobby Bambino, it's a duet between Pamina and Papageno.
Josef Greindl was the best Sarastro EVER! Be sure to get the 1949 Furtwangler performance. With Walther Ludwig as Tamino.Posted by: SoMG at July 7, 2008 5:03 PM
If ZAUBERFLOTE is your favorite opera, then this is a must-own:Posted by: SoMG at July 7, 2008 5:07 PM
Cool, thanks for the recommendation, SoMG. Are you into classical music or just opera?Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 7, 2008 5:16 PM
Oh I missed your post right above that one, SoMG. I don't really know opera singers... do you follow certain singers in the sense that you would purchase other operas based on who is singing in them? Because when I purchased the few operas I own, it was just sort of random...Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 7, 2008 5:32 PM
I didn't ask if you'd surrendered to love. If you'd been "in Love", if you'd been swept away by emotion...
I asked if you were "Capapble of Love"...
Who do you love?
“When I hear music, I fear no danger. I am invulnerable. I see no foe. I am related to the earliest times, and to the latest.”
Henry David ThoreauPosted by: mk at July 7, 2008 6:30 PM
"Authorities know that it is just a matter of time before Al-Qaida hits us hard. China is missing 17 pounds of enriched uranium, enough to make a few suitcase size nukes. We are in big, big trouble folks and we better wake up and legalized abortion is the reason."
LOL. Didn't Pat Robertson say some things similar, that even he had to later admit were nutty and wrong?Posted by: George at July 7, 2008 7:22 PM
The operas are the only Mozart stuff I think is worth the reputation. I'd take a symphony by almost anyone else, especially if I'm playing it and not just listening!Posted by: Alexandra at July 8, 2008 8:56 AM
"The operas are the only Mozart stuff I think is worth the reputation."
Really?! You don't like his Requiem or his Ave Verum Corpus?
Well, I suppose that's sort of the way I feel about Gluck, even though Mozart thought he was the man...Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 8, 2008 9:28 AM
It's not that I don't like it, Bobby. I just think that Mozart's reputation on the whole is a bit overblown.Posted by: Alexandra at July 8, 2008 10:12 AM
I'm no big fan of Gluck, really, though -- speaking of Gluck. But I did see an innovative production of L'ile de Merlin a couple years ago and enjoy that. I was surprised, a little bit; it was a departure from basically everything I had previously known about Gluck. Such an unexpected, funny little thing, like when I was 15 and I found my favorite brand of lip gloss tucked in the back of my mom's medicine cabinet, behind the Advil and the q-tips and all the other necessities. That my mother -- my no-nonsense mother who, as mothers often do, seemed made up of rules and admonitions and practical advice -- had this little bit of frivolity in her, the same frivolity that I had in me as well, was such a joy to discover. That's kind of what it was like: looking at this composer who, as dead composers often do, seemed made up of themes and platitudes and Major Works; and realizing that he had little frivolities about him, a sense of humor, ideas less "important" than things like the equality of music and lyrics and the destruction of opera by his contemporaries, themes less dramatic than grief and redemption. You know, intellectually, that composers are people, just like you know that your parents are people -- and yet it always seems slightly startling to be reminded of that fact.Posted by: Alexandra at July 8, 2008 3:58 PM
That's really interesting, Alexandra. I like your comparison with your mom and her lip gloss.
You obviously know this stuff a lot better than I do... you said you play. What instrument?Posted by: Bobby Bambino at July 8, 2008 5:13 PM
I play the piano and the cello. I'm more serious/better at the cello, though, and that's where most of my music knowledge comes from. I actually almost went to a music conservatory rather than college, but I decided that an English degree was impractical enough for my taste. ;)
I also danced with a professional ballet company for several years as a teenager. So I got a really in-depth feel for certain types of classical music that way as well.
You probably know more about opera than I do, though. Opera music generally isn't ballet music, and it's relatively rare for a symphonic orchestra to play a full opera -- unless you're in the orchestra for an opera, you spend a lot more time on the symphony/concerto type of stuff, with the occasional overture or something thrown in as a crowd-pleaser. And it's way cheaper to see a concert, a ballet, a musical, or basically anything else than it is to see an opera, so if I'm seeing something then opera is last on my list!Posted by: Alexandra at July 8, 2008 8:43 PM
To understand why Mozart felt the way he did about Gluck, get this:Posted by: SoMG at July 9, 2008 4:51 AM
Not all Mozart's operas are great. IDEOMENEO bores me stiff.
I strongly recommend Mozart's CORONATION MASS.Posted by: SoMG at July 9, 2008 5:21 AM