Odd, I always meet more white women who abort. That's why I always thought that more white women did it.

I just came from a conference where noted Catholic author and professor, Peter Kreeft Ph.D., gave a talk entitled "How to Win the Culture War"...

I walked away with two new ideas.

First, when I was a teenager in the early seventies, I was promiscuous, into drugs, witchcraft etc and thought of myself as quite "with it"...

We "hippies" were called "counter culture" or anti establishment. In sharp contrast to the morals and lifestyle of the 50's we were everything that they were not.

40 years later, I find myself the polar opposite of my previous lifestyle. I am now a Catholic, drug free, and believe sex should be contained within the confines of marriage.

And lo and behold, I have just discovered that I am STILL counter culture and anti establishment...

Second,
We (the prolife side) have often claimed that women are not really free these days, they only have the illusion that they are. But we have been hard pressed to explain what we mean.

Mr. Kreeft did it for me. Take the relationship between the Master and his slave. At first glance, we believe that the Master is free and slave is not. But look closer. The master has grown so used to others doing for him, that he can no longer do for himself. He has slaves to plow his fields, make his food, raise his children...without his slaves, the master would be lost.

In one of life's ironic moments, the master has become a slave to his slaves.

The Master needs his slaves to function. But the slave, while appearing to be under the masters thumb, would actually do quite fine were he to be "freed".

The Master needs the slave, but the slave does not need the master.

The addict starts out using cocaine freely, enjoying the buzz and the social setting in which he uses it, but somewhere along the line he stops being free to use cocaine and instead is compelled to use it. Addicts have no freedom.

We are addicted to life on this earth. We believe we are free to make "choices". No one can tell us what to do. We have no master.

But this freedom, has become twisted to the point that it is no longer a freedom, but an addiction. Look at the lengths an addict will go to find his next fix.

Look at the lengths we will go to ensure our freedom to have sex with whom we want. We are willing to kill our own children to protect our "freedom".

We are no longer masters of our own bodies. Rather we are slaves to them.

Who is really in control? How important is this freedom of ours? How far will we go to keep it?
At what point do we say the freedom "owns" us, instead of we own the freedom.

We are addicts. Plain and simple. We need a twelve step program. And the first step is to see that we are indeed slaves to this notion of freedom.

This is what we mean by saying abortion does not "give" us freedom, but rather robs us of it.

In the 70's I was counterculture and wore the name like a badge of honor. Today, I am once again counter culture, against the norms of the establishment, and again today I wear that name like a badge of honor...

I am free.

LOL! Jill, you find some funny ones!.

Did you guys see the sign? "the only good baby is a dead baby" LOL.

funny and sad at the smae time....

MK, astute observations!

Jasper, and did you notice the pot plant? lol

I also agree with your post, MK. Women who have abortions are really just mutilating their bodies. Disagree with me? Look at women who are now sterile thanks to one too many abortions.

Jill did you read my post about how, if I was in charge of this nation, all doctors would be paid the same, no matter what operations they do? This goes the same for PP. That way doctors wouldn't make any more money by doing more abortions.

I also thought there should be a reform in counseling; more of a waiting period, counselors would be certified, women would know the fetal development of their child, all options would be shown and ultrasounds available upon request.

Jess, are you in favor of abortion on demand? If so, why?

What do you mean? I'm in favor of women going to a certified counselor and a waiting period of at least 48 hours before having an abortion. But yes, up until the point of viability I'm in favor of abortion.

That's a shame.

My friend waited for 24 hours before going through with her abortion. She regrets it!

heather, I think we all agree that we should eliminate the need to abort. Say, a woman aborts because she doesn't feel she has the finances to raise a child. Why not? We should work on helping her.

I said 48 hours. If that makes a difference. The counseling would include mandatory information on fetal development and other options. Why does she regret it?

Jess, I happen to think that making abortion illegal would be a great start. I agree that we need to eliminate abortion.

Hey Jill, why no article about Congressman Rick Rienzi, who bilked Crisis Pregnancy Centers out of hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Well, she called me crying and said "I felt so empty after my abortion." I told her not to do it. She's pregnant again. She became pregnant about 4 months after her abortion. I call this a "replacement baby." She required a cervical stitch after her abortion. The butcher damaged her body. Her female GYN gave her a stern lecture about the abortion. I guess some women don't expect that! Guess what girls. Not all of these GYNs are tolerant of abortion.

Jess, doctors don't make patients have abortions. The patients come and ask for them.

A 48-hour waiting period can seriously inconvenience a patient who has to travel for her abortion. Who pays for her hotel bills, you?

Why is she pregnant again 4 months after her abortion? Nothing has changed. Same dad. Same financial situation. Sometimes we can't figure out human nature.

SoMG, I disagree. For example, when my Grandma was very sick she lost most of the use of her right arm. She went to a doctor. The doctor told her her only option was to have him preform surgery. She went to another doctor. He said it would heal on its own. Now it's few months later and slowly but surely, she regaining use of it, no surgery needed. Some doctors are money hungry like that.

Jess, doctors don't make patients have abortions. The patients come and ask for them.

Posted by: SoMG at March 9, 2008 10:07 AM**************** And abortionists don't regret the abortion. The patients do.

*claps for Jess*

Heather, the large majority of abortion patients never regret their abortions.

Somg, these are the patients I classify as sociopaths.

Heather, you can make any classification you want in your head. But the fact remains: only a small minority of abortion patients ever regret their abortions.

I know a woman who aborted 7 years ago. She claims to have "no regrets" but she's nutty.

Heather, you wrote: "Why is she [Heather's friend] pregnant again 4 months after her abortion? Nothing has changed. Same dad. Same financial situation. Sometimes we can't figure out human nature."

Maybe she's stupid? Any friend of yours....

Somg, as I stated- SOCIOPATH.

Somg, thanks for the compliment.

There are a lot of people on Death Row who don't regret committing murder. SOCIOPATHS. The same rules apply.

So let's see: 50 million abortions since Roe/Wade; the large majority have no regrets, so you're diagnosing at least 45 million women as sociopaths???

And you wonder, Heather, why no one takes you seriously.

yes. That's scary.

Abortionist Jailed – Again!
Convicted sexual predator Laurence Reich arrested in LA for committing abortions after being stripped of his medical license

Los Angeles, CA – Abortionist Laurence Reich was arrested and jailed last week in Los Angeles for practicing medicine without a license after a special LAPD Task Force discovered he had been doing abortions illegally. Reich, who faces three felony counts, posted a $60,000 bond and was released.

A protective order has been placed on the case, but it is known that the arrest is a result of an Health Authority Task Force (HALT) investigation that culminated in the raiding of several Clinica Medica Para La Mujer De Hoy abortion mills on August 1, 2007, and the arrest of owner Bertha Bugarin and her sister, Rachel for doing abortions without medical licenses.

Reich, an Osteopath, was forced to surrender his medical license on April 14, 2006, after a conviction on two counts of sexually molesting his abortion patients. Reich had previously served 10 years probation on a similar conviction in 1984. Operation Rescue exposed information it obtained that indicated that Reich engaged in gross sexual “misconduct” with his patients, which included fondling them before, during, and after abortions for his own gratification.

“Laurence Reich is a rapist who uses abortion to gain access to his victims. It doesn’t get any worse than that. Operation Rescue has for years called on authorities to put him in jail because of his pattern of perverted behavior,” said Operation Rescue President Troy Newman. “The law has no meaning for these people. Only substantial jail time will adequately protect the public from falling prey them.”

“We encourage pro-lifers across the country who minister outside abortion mills to monitor their communities’ abortionists. As more and more abortionists are banned from the practice of medicine, the chances increase that they will simply set up shop elsewhere,” said Newman.

“Abortion is a seedy business that attracts the bottom of the barrel. You can bet Reich and Bugarin are not the only ones out there victimizing women and flouting the law. Pro-lifers need to be on guard and report suspicious activity to the appropriate authorities, for the protection of women and their innocent babies.”

Related Story

Somg, can any of these abortionists ever keep their pants on? Have you seen this?

And you wonder, Heather, why no one takes you seriously.

Posted by: SoMG at March 9, 2008 10:24 AM************* At least I post facts. Where are yours? You NEVER have any facts.

Besides, most abortionists are rapists or molesters.

Abortionist calls patient 'lazy'

In an April 4, 1993, article, Legalizing abortion did not put the “butchers” out of business, the Pittsburgh Post- Gazette recalls a Chicago Tribune (10/22/91) report that at a license revocation hearing in October 1988, testimony revealed that abortionist Arnold Bickham had called the victim of a fatal botched abortion, Sylvia Moore, "lazy" because she failed to get up after receiving the abortion. It went on to report that Bickham pushed her out of his clinic in a wheelchair, despite her condition. She died at Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center. Bickham never faced criminal charges in her death.

A victim of molestation speaks out

On October 13, 2005, this comment was sent into The O’Reilly Factor regarding the issue of parental consent on abortion.

"Doris, I'm withholding her last name, California, 'I had an abortion in Anaheim without my parents' knowledge. The doctor performing the operation molested me, knowing I would not tell. I will vote yes on parental notification.'"
********************************************************* SOMG, do you condone this?

Your post was very good mk. I always enjoy Peter Kreeft. He's a fine apologist.

Jess:

Why the double standard? Would you also suggest mandatory waiting periods for other surgeries - especially elective ones?

This is the age of the Internet afterall - if a woman has questions, all she needs to do is go to her nearest computer. Mandatory waiting periods just treat women as second class citizens unable to make their own decisions.

what if women don't own a computer?

phylosopher, If women are so capable of making smart decisions, then why do we need abortion at all?

Also, why do women choose to have more than 1 abortion 45% of the time?

Heather:

Do we really need to go down this road again? By your logic, anytime we find an abuser in a certain field, you want to make the entire field illegal.

So, let's see, Catholic churches should be illegal because some priests sexually abuse children; better close down all doctors offices because some have abused children; same for schools, kids' sports, oh, and don't forget, in most cases of abuse, molestation and kidnapping, the perpetrator is a relative or individual known to the family - quick, make familes and friends illegal.

Heather lives in a fantasy world.

Mandatory waiting periods just treat women as second class citizens unable to make their own decisions.

Posted by: phylosopher at March 9, 2008 10:50 AM************ EXCUSE ME! THE ABORTION INDUSTRY TREATS WOMEN LIKE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS! Why on earth can't you see that?

phylosopher, you refused to challenge me before. I don't blame you.

Anyway, we already established that there are more molesters and sexual devients in the Republican party than among abortion docs.

Also, more Catholic priests are molesters than abortion docs.

SOMG, abortionists are not doctors. They are rapists.

Abortion patient told to 'shut up'

In a press conference, abortion patient Melanie Bell, testified about her abortion experience. She said she was told that her pregnancy, which was nine weeks along, was just a "blob of tissue."

She said nurses told her to shut up when she asked for the procedure to stop.

Abortionist guilty of preying on women

According to facts presented during a license revocation hearing abortionist Tati Okereke was found to use his abortion practice to prey on women. Following are excerpts taken from the NY Medical Board's case #11593 which details the activities of Okereke.

(To read the full .pdf document click here)

Documents related to the case show that Okereke did such actions as, fondling a female patient’s breast, engaging in sexual intercourse with her and other patients without their consent.

To facilitate his sexual attacks Okereke would inject patients with drugs, then engaging in sexual intercourse without the permission of the abortion patients. In one instance a patient said that Okereke said he was going to withdraw blood, but instead injected her with a drug to make her stuporous, and allegedly attempted to have sexual intercourse with the patient.

One woman testified that she could not move any muscles during this ordeal, but just kept crying, "What are you doing?"

Still another patient testified that after he examined her vagina he licked his finger.

When the time came for his case to be heard she said the doctor tried to pay her of to keep her quiet.

Other findings of the board include -

When Okereke applied for a license in New York, he lied on the application saying he had never been found guilty of professional misconduct. He also failed to disclose a malpractice case entitled: Guth v. Okereke and the Children's Hospital of Buffalo. He also lied as to whether he had ever been charged with a felony. The New York Board pointed out that Okereke was charged with felonies of sexual abuse and bribing a witness by Grand Jury Indictment # 82-1579-502, he was initially tried and but later acquitted following a mistrial.

Okereke advertised his New York abortion offices as: High Street Medical Group and the board pointed out that he had not registered with the Erie County Clerk's Office to do business under that name.

On March 11, 1997, The New York State Board of Regents, denied the physician's petition for the restoration of his New York State medical license.

Misconduct Description: The New York State Board of Regents sustained the charges finding the physician guilty of abusing patients; engaging in conduct which evidences moral unfitness; practicing fraudulently, negligence, Incompetence; failing to maintain accurate records and rendering excessive treatment not warranted by the condition of the patient.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GROSS ME OUT!

"Anyway, we already established that there are more molesters and sexual devients in the Republican party than among abortion docs."

That we know of ....

Abortionist grabs women inappropriately

On May 28,2003, The Medical Board of California (Division of Medical Quality Case # 10-2001-125390) disciplined the medical license of abortion doctor John R. Rivera, Jr.

The case involved an incident of assault perpetrated by Rivera when Rivera was attending a San Diego Street Festival. Rivera approached a woman standing in line waiting to purchase some beer. The case revealed that he then asked her if she would like to attend an ecstasy party the next night, and the women said she didn’t do that sort of thing.

When Rivera turned to leave he reached around another person and grabbed the women tightly in the vaginal area.

When the police arrived, Rivera denied the incident and that he also denied that he had been using ecstasy, however a urine sample taken from Rivera tested positive for the drug.

In July of 2006, the board ruled to reinstate Rivera's license

It shouldn't be this easy for me to find these corrupt pervs.

More than 20 charges made against abortionist

In 1987, the Tamarac, Florida, the police department began an investigation into allegations of sexual assault by abortion doctor Jeffrey Goldenberg. Goldenberg was employed by the University Women's Center abortion clinic in Tamarac.
In August of 1988, the Associated Press (Doctor Ordered to Stop Practicin, 8/6/1988) reported that Jeffrey Goldenberg, 41, surrendered his license to state's Department of Professional Regulation officials, who said in a written emergency suspension order that Goldenberg presented an "immediate and serious danger" to the public. In the end, there were several complaints against the doctor.

(Florida Department of Professional Regulation case numbers 102532, 73882, 70744, 75174, 80918, 85142, 94175, and 76, 95832, 102527, and 528, 529, 531, 598, 103134 and 466, 467, 468, 489, 103751 and 752, 755, 67793, 86772, 32342, 77112, 874, 959320, 87-1457)

The department accused Goldenberg of stitching up the abdomen of a woman on whom he performed a Cesarean section despite heavy internal bleeding. Goldenberg also botched his attempt to treat the woman after she suffered cardiac arrest, the department charged. The woman died after the operation.

The department's case includes allegations that he performed at least seven unnecessary Cesarean sections and fondled a patient during an examination.

In a separate case, the agency also has accused Goldenberg of injecting a patient with sedatives and then sexually assaulting her, said Bruce Lamb, the agency's chief medical attorney. Lamb said the agency has asked that the state Board of Medicine revoke Goldenberg's license.

Investigators were in the process of reviewing over 20 complaints against Goldenberg when he died unexpectedly.

Heather, don't be silly. There's a substantial right-to-life industry which publishes every case of professional misconduct by abortion docs. All you have to do is cut and paste.

Abortionist, women will do anything for abortions

In the Phoenix New Times June 17, 1999, article, Trash-talking abortionist Dr. Brian Finkel has a message for pro-life zealots: "Kiss my ass,” Finkel boasts:

"Back in the good old days, honey, I could open a woman in less than a minute and a half. It was while I was working on the abortion floor that I learned that women will do whatever it takes to have an abortion."

Do you really think that this shows any respect for women? I don't think so!

Somg, you had better begin posting about those corrupt priests.

Hayat takes a hands on approach to medicine

According to the State of NY: Department of Health Board for Professional Misconduct, in the matter of Abu Hayat M.D on October 11,1991, a female patient went to abortionist Abu Hayat’s office for an abortion follow-up exam.
Medical Board hearings stated that during the exam Hayat placed his fingers in the patient’s anus and vagina while his other hand was on her buttocks. He then moved the hand, which he had on her buttocks and tucked it under her breast and left it there.

During testimony of this incident Hayat, as he has often done when a patient complains, denied ever treating this patient. Hayat had a history of denying the treatment of several of the patients who filed complaints against him. This event was not the oly time Hayat faced the board. He was well known for several other violations regarding a number of his patients.

Read NY Review Board's findings by clicking here.

What, you don't read the papers?

Baby's head left inside woman

In an article titled, Woman dies after abortion; Moreno clinic doctor has been under probe (12/19/69), the Press Enterprise reported a 34-year-old patient underwent an abortion to terminate a 15- to 17-week pregnancy and that the abortionist, Bruce Steir, was unable to determine if he had removed the entire fetus.

He then allegedly discharged the patient without informing her of this fact or arranging appropriate follow-up care. Two days later, the patient was admitted to Physician's Community Hospital with a fever, severe abdominal pain and nausea.

Physicians discovered a perforated uterus and performed a hysterectomy. In addition, Doctors removed a fetal skull found protruding through a rent in the uterus.

Bruce Steir

Somg, abortionists must be incredibly lazy people. They also must be incredibly uneducated. You are proof of both.

Fired abortion employee speaks out

The former administrator of a Nebraska abortion clinic claimed she was fired when she threatened to report the "questionable" actions of the clinic’s abortionist to health authorities, according to the July 26,1991 Omaha World-Herald article.
In the article entitled, Fired Clinic leader sues; doctor says “sour grapes”, the administrator claimed that the abortion doctor of the clinic talked on the phone while performing abortions, fell asleep while giving anesthesia to patients, and botched at least two abortions.

The abortionist denied the charges and said she was reacting out of "sour grapes" because he had fired her.

She claimed that in 1989, the abortionist "left a patient on a surgery table and went outside the clinic and threw rocks at the windows of the room the patient occupied."

Dr. Anthony Levatino, MD, former abortionist of Troy, N.Y.,performed abortions as a hospital resident, but was uncomfortable with them, "Along the way,you find out that you can make a lot of money doing abortions. I worked 9 to 5. I was never bothered at night. I never had to go out on weekends. And I made more money than my obstetrician brethren. And I didn't have to face the liability. That's a big factor, a huge perk. I almost never, ever had to worry about her lawyer bothering me. In my practice, we were averaging between $250 and $500 per abortion – and it was cash. It's the one time as a doctor you can say, 'Either pay me up front or I'm not going to take care of you.' Abortion is totally elective. Either you have the money or you don't. And they get it."

Levatino and his wife were trying to adopt a child, while at work he realized that he was ''throwing 'em in the garbage at the rate of nine and 10 a week.''

In private practice, he even did second-trimester dilation and evacuation (D & E) abortions. These involve dismemberment by instrument within the womb, followed by extraction. To make sure he has not left any body parts behind, the abortionist must reassemble them outside the womb. Levatino was able to do this until 1984, when his little girl was struck and killed by a car. After that he says, ''I couldn't even think about a D & E abortion anymore. No way.''

After his daughter's death, Levatino continued doing early abortions, but, ''began to feel like a paid assassin. That's exactly what I was. After a few months of that I started to realize that this is somebody's child. I lost my child, someone who was very precious to us. And now I am taking somebody's child and I am tearing him right out of her womb. I am killing somebody's child."

Finally Levatino quit abortion altogether. He stated, ''I slept a lot better at night after that, It really made a difference.''

Washington Post 4-1-88, Mary Meehan editorial
Prolife Action League: Meet the Abortion Providers

Gee, a former abortionist admits it's murder.

Ya know, most victims of childhood sexual abuse and molestation are victimized by members of their own families.

We should ban families.

Jill, doesn't it embarrass you to have a right-to-life commentator on your board as stupid as Heather?

Heir, This is a blog about abortion. Do you have a problem with my exposure of corrupt abortionists? It's apparent that Somg does. He's nothing but a stupid abortionist.

Somg, I'll forgive you for being stupid. You can't help it.

Heir, This is a blog about abortion. Do you have a problem with my exposure of corrupt abortionists? It's apparent that Somg does. He's nothing but a stupid abortionist.

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 11:47 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gee, Heather, if I posted the hundreds of cases involving sexual abuse by Christian clergy in the US would you agree to outlaw Christianity?

FF, where was I? Do you have a bell on your computer that rings whenever I come on the site. Seems like it. I know you love me:]

Jasper, and did you notice the pot plant? lol

Posted by: Jill Stanek at March 9, 2008 9:21 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sad attempt at hipness.
Penalty: Stanek.
15 yards.

Shall we continue this crash course in ABORTION 101?....I have lots of material. Oh, how do you know what religion I am? I might be agnostic.

Heather, did you say YOUR exposure of corrupt abortionists? Everyone knows all you do is cut and paste from right-to-life sites.

Are you really unaware that you are making the right-to-life side look stupid? I bet Jill is embarrassed by your posts.

FF, where was I? Do you have a bell on your computer that rings whenever I come on the site. Seems like it. I know you love me:]

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 11:51 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are you drunk?
Are we supposed to know "where you were?"

Somg, if you ever lose your job as an abortionist, I'm sure you will be able to get a great job as a toilet scrubber. Oh, you don't meet the qualifications. Abortionists don't qualify.

FF, yes. My bastard kids and I went drinking on my welfare check;]

SOMG, I'm sure you love the word stupid. I'm surprised you are able to spell it. I never knew abortionists could spell.

Abortion patients act like Pollyannas

Darla Patterson an abortion clinic worker made these observations on the website, Tales from the Clinic:

"People who are lost often call us on their crap reception cellular phones and shout frantically through the mouthpiece at us the names of the streets they're passing. They don't want to stop and ask for directions in case people figure out where they're going or because they're just so tweaked out about it all that they can't behave rationally. The fact that a good number of women are cloak-and-dagger furtive about their abortions can be somewhat tirtesome (sic) in these sort of situations, even though it's understandable. I imagine that if I could watch their cars from a spaceship hovering above they would look like drunken bees careening around and around the hive of our clinic. Or the anti-hive, more precisely."

Issue #2 - June 27, 2003 - 8:35 pm

“The thing people most obviously lie about when they come in for an abortion is about their drug usage. It's always funny to look at somebody's chart and see that they claimed to have "tried some crack" three weeks before. Like it was casually offered at a party after they turned down the wine. There are the Eddie Haskell types who deny any usage until they have to sign a couple of consent forms with the word "death" listed as a complication. Some people act like they're little Pollyannas, happily sniffing flowers that have been laced with narcotics without their knowledge. "My friend gave me a joint but it had a little sumpin' sumpin' (sic) in it," this woman told me last week, trying to do her best impression of an ingenue. Due to her indecent attire and heavy-handed application of her make-up she looked more like she was doing a bad impression of some teen idol musician/actor doing a bad impression of an innocent teen in a Lifetime movie. So I guess I know a little sumpin' sumpin' (sic) about pregnant women who want to have abortions…”

okay, off to cook some lunch! mmmmmm.

That ridiculous cartoon about Planned
Parenthood supposedly saying"the only good baby
is a dead baby" totally misrepresents this brave
organization,but that's typical of anti-choice
people.I'm getting tired of the disingenuous
way you demonize PP.If aborrtion becomes
illegal in the US, a lot more women will be
harmed than currently are.

robert, that's not true.

more women will be harmed? I don't think that's possible.

I win again.

Also, more Catholic priests are molesters than abortion docs.
Posted by: SoMG at March 9, 2008 10:57 AM

You're world seems so small and sad.

MK, true enough!

Is it just me, or did the "racist Planned Parenthood" story fail to get any traction?

I'm a news junkie and didn't see it anywhere besides this board and Free Republic.

I guess prank phone calls aren't exactly "breaking news..."

SoMG,

Jill, doesn't it embarrass you to have a right-to-life commentator on your board as stupid as Heather?
Posted by: SoMG at March 9, 2008 11:41 AM

I usually find that people who engage someone that feel is stupid in a conversation over and over, that it says something about the person that keeps responding...

An intelligent person would walk away.

Laura,

I cannot tell a lie. I prayed for you at Mass today. I seriously want you on our side. Both the churches and the pro life side.

C'mon, doesn't the idea of being counter culture again appeal to you?

DOWN WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT!!!! ;)

@MK: DOWN WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT! DOWN WITH THE CAPITALIST PIGS AND THE BOURGEOISIE!

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

THE PROLETARIAN WILL RULE!!!

FF, what is the problem? Actually, it seems as though you have mellowed out some, but what is your hang up with pro lifers? You don't have to hide behind a joke or an insult. What is it?

MK, thank you:]

Heather, the large majority of abortion patients never regret their abortions.

Posted by: SoMG at March 9, 2008 10:12 AM

totally unsubstantiated assertion.

The abortion industry doesn't want to track post abortion regret or depression because there is a percentage that regret it, maybe a majority, maybe a plurality. Remember about half of all abortions are from repeat customers. They are probably less likely to be regretful. That is just presumption, a study could investigate it, but although abortion is legal and common, there is little interest in studying its effects. Look how long it took to get a large scale study of HRT. The study had to be stopped because the rate of risk to participants was so high that continuing the study would not meet criteria for protecting human subjects. The abortion industry would not want to risk a large objective study of abortion on all aspects of women's health including reproductive health, psychological health, social etc. Post abortive women could score low enough on objective measures to bring the risks to national attention. Some feel it is better not to hold women's health issues to the same standards as other health issues. This is not just abortion related. Objective studies are hard to initiate because women are the cash cows of medicine. Everything from hospital based childbirth to discouraging breastfeeding in favor of formula, to breast cancer research, contraceptive sales, etc, etc.

As far as these industries are concerned sometimes it is better not to ask to many questions.

Heres video my son shot of me last night and posted on YouTube. No real production on it but let me know what you think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTbnsUI55vI

hippie, I can't thank you enough. Also, the abortion industry doesn't ever want women to believe that there COULD BE a link between abortion and breast cancer. Why not?

@MK: DOWN WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT! DOWN WITH THE CAPITALIST PIGS AND THE BOURGEOISIE!

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

THE PROLETARIAN WILL RULE!!!

Posted by: Ari-chan at March 9, 2008 1:10 PM

Have you ever read Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent?

It explains how big business makes us feel like we are rebelling while they line their pockets with our money and fuel the establishment.

If you are following a multimillion dollar campaign financed by Wall street, you are not rebelling against the establishment.
You are supporting it.

TS, loved it. Is that a Martin D14?

Besides, what makes Somg believe that most women don't experience regret? It's not like the abortion industry ever does any follow up.

@Hippie: I was joking. :) I like making fun of communism.

I know I support "establishment"...I work at 3M.

No, it's just a cheap Sigma Martin guitar. I'll probably end up posting a new version soon with a "better" guitar and with some friends playing along. I was surprised how well the video turned out with the $150 camera I bought yesterday though.

Well, it sounded nice:]

@MK: DOWN WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT! DOWN WITH THE CAPITALIST PIGS AND THE BOURGEOISIE!

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

THE PROLETARIAN WILL RULE!!!

Posted by: Ari-chan at March 9, 2008 1:10 PM

Let's see, if some one crank called the McCain campaign and said they wanted to make a donation because they wanted to make sure a black man would not be elected president, and the campaign volunteer expressed his understanding and enthusiasm for the caller's sentiment, do you think that the New York Times might follow that story?

Is it just me, or did the "racist Planned Parenthood" story fail to get any traction?

I'm a news junkie and didn't see it anywhere besides this board and Free Republic.

I guess prank phone calls aren't exactly "breaking news..."

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 9, 2008 12:54 PM

Let's see, if some one crank called the McCain campaign and said they wanted to make a donation because they wanted to make sure a black man would not be elected president, and the campaign volunteer expressed his understanding and enthusiasm for the caller's sentiment, do you think that the New York Times might follow that story?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 9, 2008 1:41 PM

Sorry, I had a glitch when posting

@Anonymous: In a heartbeat they would.

Oy, I wish people could get I was making a joke with the commie-speak... >_

@Hippie: I was joking. :) I like making fun of communism.

I know I support "establishment"...I work at 3M.

Posted by: Ari-chan at March 9, 2008 1:36 PM

Fine Ari,

but I think you know that there are folks who honestly think they are rebels while they spend hand over fist supporting the establishment.

The establishment is not all bad. However it should be scrutinized like anything else. We should call for change as needed.

*sigh*

Hippie, you're completely missing the point...

Did anyone catch THIS story? Apparently John McCain's campaign manager has stolen from pro-life groups and crisis pregnancy centers:

Pro-Life Groups Hit by GOP Lawmaker's Alleged Fraud

Renzi Funneled Hundreds of Thousands from Pregnancy Crisis Centers to
Fund First Run for Congress

By JUSTIN ROOD

March 8, 2007—

Rep. Rick Renzi, R-Ariz., allegedly defrauded dozens of pro-life
organizations for hundreds of thousands of dollars to fund his first
congressional bid, according to an analysis of the recent indictment
against him, a state insurance claim and an interview with an
insurance lawyer involved in the case.

When federal prosecutors indicted Renzi, 49, on 35 felony counts two
weeks ago, many reports focused on alleged crimes stemming from a
complicated series of land swaps the congressman facilitated.

But the indictment also accuses Renzi, who ran an insurance firm
before coming to Capitol Hill, of misappropriating hundreds of
thousands of dollars in insurance premiums and using the money to fund
his congressional campaign.

Organizations such as Arizona Right-to-Life, the Hope Crisis Pregnancy
Center and the Wickenburg Pregnancy Resource Center paid insurance
premiums to Renzi's insurance firm, Renzi & Company, but received
notices their insurance coverage was going to be cancelled for
nonpayment, according to a 2003 complaint filed with the State of
Arizona.

The complaint was first reported by the Phoenix New Times.

According to the indictment, Renzi funneled those payments -- totaling
more than $400,000 -- through various accounts and finally to his
campaign.

Renzi's congressional office has directed all legal questions to his
lawyer, Reid Weingarten.

Weingarten did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

I got it Ari!

Somg, these are the patients I classify as sociopaths.

Oh goody! Usually in these conversations I get called a psychopath, but sociopath has a much nicer ring to it. More social, less psycho.

Heres video my son shot of me last night and posted on YouTube. No real production on it but let me know what you think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTbnsUI55vI

Posted by: truthseeker at March 9, 2008 1:26 PM
.....................................................

I think that you shouldn't quit your day job. You clearly have no talent as a musician, singer or lyricist. Simon Cowell says so.

hippie, I can't thank you enough. Also, the abortion industry doesn't ever want women to believe that there COULD BE a link between abortion and breast cancer. Why not?

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 1:28 PM
...........................................

The absolute cause of breast cancer is having breasts. Masturbation causes men to get breast cancer. 99.9% of men with breast cancer have masturbated.

don't forget water.

100% of people who get cancer have drunk water.

And 100% of people who have died, have also drunk water, sooo...

If aborrtion becomes
illegal in the US, a lot more women will be
harmed than currently are.

Posted by: robert berger at March 9, 2008 12:25 PM

totally unsubstantiated assertion.

The year before Roe v. Wade, 39 women died of illegal abortion.

That ridiculous cartoon about Planned
Parenthood supposedly saying"the only good baby
is a dead baby" totally misrepresents this brave
organization,

Posted by: robert berger at March 9, 2008 12:25 PM

How is killing defenseless babies "brave" ?

NARAL "crank calls" pregnancy resource centers.

Without corroborating evidence, women posed as clients and claimed they were given "medically inaccurate" info at a pregnancy center. That means they call an unborn baby a baby instead of a fetus. Of course every OB Gyn in America does too.

The story:

Yesterday, Maryland's Senate Finance Committee heard testimony on a bill that would require the state's pro-life pregnancy resource centers (PRCs), or crisis pregnancy centers, to post a disclaimer about their services. SB 690 would force pregnancy resource centers to tell women who contact them that the centers are "not required to provide factually accurate information to clients." Representatives from NARAL, who lobbied for the bill, cited a recent report conducted by young women who visited pregnancy centers posing as girls with unplanned pregnancies. In reality, the report was a weak attempt to disgrace the good work of PRCs. Senators were quick to question its validity based on its small numbers, and due to the fact that no real clients had been interviewed for feedback. FRC's Director of Women's and Reproductive Health, Moira Gaul, testified on the negative impact the bill would have on women's health. In particular, she elaborated on how it would undermine the effectiveness in linking women to vital community, healthcare, and support services. Attorneys from the Thomas More Society, Care Net, and others spoke against the bill, citing its unconstitutionality and stating that it would never hold up in court of law. Scores of pregnancy center personnel also testified, including registered nurses, licensed social workers, medical doctors, and licensed psychologists to show that it would violate their professional ethics to provide factually inaccurate information to clients. In total, over 45 people came to testify against the bill. NARAL's weak attempt to devalue the amazing services PRCs provide was clearly evident as the professionalism, compassion and care of PRC workers shined throughout the lengthy hearing."

Notice that those who claimed "medically inaccurate" info weren't able to actually document that.

The year before Roe v. Wade, 39 women died of illegal abortion.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 9, 2008 2:31 PM**************** Anon, thank you for pointing that out.

I also thought there should be a reform in counseling; more of a waiting period, counselors would be certified, women would know the fetal development of their child, all options would be shown and ultrasounds available upon request. I'm in favor of women going to a certified counselor and a waiting period of at least 48 hours before having an abortion.

Jess, I think these are some great ideas and a start to better care and finding common ground in the abortion debate.

Racheal, I agree.

I also thought there should be a reform in counseling; more of a waiting period, counselors would be certified, women would know the fetal development of their child, all options would be shown and ultrasounds available upon request. I'm in favor of women going to a certified counselor and a waiting period of at least 48 hours before having an abortion.

Jess, I think these are some great ideas and a start to better care and finding common ground in the abortion debate.

Posted by: Rachael at March 9, 2008 3:43 PM

I agree. It just makes so much common sense. Why do the por-aborts keep fighting this type of legistlation? If they truly cared about women they would be putting these ideas into practice instead of spending millions of dollars fighting them.

A 48-hour waiting period can seriously inconvenience a patient who has to travel for her abortion. Who pays for her hotel bills, you?

Posted by: SoMG at March 9, 2008 10:09 AM

But, this can't be true. There is no shortage of abortion doctors. You said it yourself SMOG.
It's the thing every doctor wants to do. If what you say is correct, you'd think there would be an abortion doctor on every corner.

So, if Rep. Renzi is found not guilty, will you guys apologize for saying that he is guilty just because he's been indicted? I'll certainly condemn him if he's found guilty.

Jill,
I loved that cartoon. Especially the pot plant and the fact that the PP employee is smoking in the clinic. Very telling.

Hey,
Anyone know where Erin has been? It's been way too long since I have seen any posts. I hope she's ok.

Can somebody explain this to me, please? How can pro-aborts simultaneously argue these two diametrically opposed positions?

Pro-abort Argument 1: Waiting periods treat women like idiotic, second class citizens. Women are not stupid; they know what abortion is, and they know exactly what they're in for when they go for an abortion.

Pro-abortion Argument 2: Women don't know how condoms work. We need to start more comprehensive sex ed classes in schools, because women, even women over 25-years-old who get half of the abortions in America, are just way too ignorant. They either don't know about condoms, or don't know how they're supposed to be used to prevent pregnancy.

I've seen pro-aborts on here make both of these arguments. What the heck? How can a woman be an expert on pregnancy and abortion but not know how a condom works?

Sandy, I was also wondering about Erin and midnite.

John, you saved the day!! Sandy, I was also wondering about the hotel room stay. Odd. Considering ALL of these fabulous "doctors" who want to perform abortions!!

SOMG, 10:09

Patients who must travel to see a specialist or receive transplants and cancer treatments are seriously inconvenienced with travel expenses and hotel bills as well. Do you have any problem with that?

Here's a sunday funny:

http://www.monkeyfluids.com/2008/01/reader-mail-6.html

Hello there, Mary!

Robert Berger 12;25pm

More women will be harmed if abortion becomes illegal? Eh, Robert, once abortion was legal women were not supposed to be harmed at all, remember?

Hi Heather,

Its good to be back:)

Mary, great point.

Phylosopher 10:50am

All non emergency surgery patients have mandatory waiting periods as they must first see the surgeon, be advised of alternatives and risks, and then go home and decide and schedule the procedure for another day. Is this second class citizenship?

Pro-abort Argument 1: Waiting periods treat women like idiotic, second class citizens. Women are not stupid; they know what abortion is, and they know exactly what they're in for when they go for an abortion.

Not all pro-choicers oppose waiting periods. Many who oppose them do so because abortion is already a serious financial burden for many women, and the added time to take off from work and often travel increases that burden significantly.

Pro-abortion Argument 2: Women don't know how condoms work. We need to start more comprehensive sex ed classes in schools, because women, even women over 25-years-old who get half of the abortions in America, are just way too ignorant. They either don't know about condoms, or don't know how they're supposed to be used to prevent pregnancy.

There's a difference between knowing of something and knowing how to make it most effective. How to store it? How not to store it? (hint: don't keep it in a wallet!) How much room to leave at the tip when putting it on? How to know if you have the wrong size? Types of condoms to use for which situation? (lambskin? latex? polyurethane?) Which should be paired with spermicide? (hint: even spermicidal condoms don't generally contain enough spermicide to warrant abandoning separate contraceptive measures.) When to throw out old, unused condoms?

Saying, "Just put a condom on!" is woefully inadequate sex education. It makes kids think that using condoms is good enough -- when it's using them CORRECTLY that actually makes a difference.

Alexandra, A lot of women don't use any protection. They rely on the abortion clinic to fix their "mistake." This is just unacceptable.

I've seen pro-aborts on here make both of these arguments. What the heck? How can a woman be an expert on pregnancy and abortion but not know how a condom works?

Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 9, 2008 4:51 PM

John,
I tried to pose that question awhile back, but didn't get the words out quite right. They say they are there to help these "poor desparate women" who got themselves in such a bungle, oh my. But at the same time say women are empowered by making the choice to abort.

Which is it?

I knew a woman who had 7 of them. By her own admission, she used NO protection. She was in her 30's. She HAD to have a hysterectomy d/t all of the damage that had been done to her insides because of the excessive abortions.

Alexandra 5:11PM

If you go visit a surgeon for a non emergency procedure I can assure you no one will care about expense, inconvenience, travel, or time away from work. You will see the surgeon first, be advised of risks and alternatives, then sent home to consider the risks and alternatives, and schedule your procedure for another day. No ethical surgeon will do otherwise, especially if you are someone he/she has never met.

Fantasy land? Try REALITY. All she ever said was "It's MY choice."..and "Don't judge ME!"

Hi Mary!
Welcome home, I hope all is well with your family.

Mary, right!

Mary, welcome home!

heather:

Alexandra, A lot of women don't use any protection. They rely on the abortion clinic to fix their "mistake." This is just unacceptable.

How does this relate to what I was saying? John asked how women can be stupid enough to need instructions on how to effectively use contraception. That some women don't use contraception at all is a different subject entirely.

Mary:

If you go visit a surgeon for a non emergency procedure I can assure you no one will care about expense, inconvenience, travel, or time away from work. You will see the surgeon first, be advised of risks and alternatives, then sent home to consider the risks and alternatives, and schedule your procedure for another day. No ethical surgeon will do otherwise, especially if you are someone he/she has never met.

I agree with this. Personally I don't much mind waiting periods on abortions.

Alexandra, okay. Fair enough.

So, if Rep. Renzi is found not guilty, will you guys apologize for saying that he is guilty just because he's been indicted? I'll certainly condemn him if he's found guilty.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 9, 2008 4:45 PM********* me too.

I knew a woman who had 7 of them. By her own admission, she used NO protection. She was in her 30's. She HAD to have a hysterectomy d/t all of the damage that had been done to her insides because of the excessive abortions.

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 5:18 PM
...............................

I knew a woman who had 7 kids. By her own admission she used NO protection. She was in her 20s. She HAD to have a hysterectomy due to the excessive pregnancies.

Sally, really?

Heather,
Congrats! You stuck it out even though it was tough. I admire you.
At least you weren't worried about whether it was prudent or not to post. You did your best!
;-D

Actually, this woman did have one living child. She is the mother of 8 children. 1 living, 7 dead.

Patricia, thank you for the support! This information is so easy to find on the computer. I am really shocked at the lack of media attention though.

Heather,
Did she got to different doctors or clinics? Did her family doctor not advise her?

Alexandra, A lot of women don't use any protection. They rely on the abortion clinic to fix their "mistake." This is just unacceptable.

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 5:16 PM
.................................................

Heather, A lot of women don't use any protection. They rely on the welfare office to support their "mistake". This is unacceptable. @@

However, you ALWAYS hear about abortion clinic bombings. You ALWAYS hear about assassinated abortionists. What about the flip side?

Heather,
Did she got to different doctors or clinics? Did her family doctor not advise her?

Posted by: Patricia at March 9, 2008 6:33 PM********* Patricia, do you mean about the abortions or the hysterectomy?

what if women don't own a computer?

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 10:51 AM
...................................

There are these things called libraries.

Sally, I don't call a living child a mistake.

What if you can't book a library appointment in time?

Sally, really?

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 6:27 PM
.......................

Really Heather.

Baby's head left inside woman

In an article titled, Woman dies after abortion; Moreno clinic doctor has been under probe (12/19/69), the Press Enterprise reported a 34-year-old patient underwent an abortion to terminate a 15- to 17-week pregnancy and that the abortionist, Bruce Steir, was unable to determine if he had removed the entire fetus.

He then allegedly discharged the patient without informing her of this fact or arranging appropriate follow-up care. Two days later, the patient was admitted to Physician's Community Hospital with a fever, severe abdominal pain and nausea.

Physicians discovered a perforated uterus and performed a hysterectomy. In addition, Doctors removed a fetal skull found protruding through a rent in the uterus.

Bruce Steir
Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 11:22 AM
...........................................

1969? Do you read the stuff you copy and paste?

I meant the abortions!

Those having access to the Internet and those not are separated by the "digital divide".
I don't know what libraries are like in the US but most libraries you can gain a limited access to a computer with Internet access.
It would depend though on whether the library has a filtering system - some libraries might screen out abortion sites etc...

Yes, did you find a problem with that post?

Patricia, the library comment was directed at Sally [above post]]

Sally, so you expect women to study pregnancy and abortion on the internet so that they can make an informed decision, and you chide us for attempting to make sure that their decision really is informed... so why can't women look up condoms on the internet, too?

Alexandra, you could learn everything there is to know about condoms much more easily than you could learn all about the concepts of pregnancy and abortion. I'm not sure you answered my question, which is, why is it that pro-aborts seem to assume that women know everything about pregnancy, and also assume that women know nothing about condoms?

When we pro-lifers suggest that women don't know what they're in for when they go to abort, we're accused of attacking women as morons. But I don't see how that differs from the other side saying that women are ignorant when it comes to condoms.

I meant the abortions!

Those having access to the Internet and those not are separated by the "digital divide".
I don't know what libraries are like in the US but most libraries you can gain a limited access to a computer with Internet access.
It would depend though on whether the library has a filtering system - some libraries might screen out abortion sites etc...

Posted by: Patricia at March 9, 2008 6:45 PM
...........................................

Libraries have these things called books.

Re; The woman who had 7 abortions. What can I say? She was a hard headed woman who really believed that abortion was the way to go. She was just a reproductive slob who told me "I don't use any contraception." She did have multiple sex partners, and she drank a lot. After her 7th abortion, she began to experience heavy vaginal bleeding. It wouldn't stop, so she went to see a reputable OBGYN. He told her that she would have to have a hysterectomy. I couldn't really tell you what was wrong, but the doctor did tell her that the bleeding was d/t a damaged uterus. She has run out of choices.

A 48-hour waiting period can seriously inconvenience a patient who has to travel for her abortion. Who pays for her hotel bills, you?

Posted by: SoMG at March 9, 2008 10:09 AM

But, this can't be true. There is no shortage of abortion doctors. You said it yourself SMOG.
It's the thing every doctor wants to do. If what you say is correct, you'd think there would be an abortion doctor on every corner.

Posted by: Sandy at March 9, 2008 4:41 PM
....................................................

Actually there is a shortage of doctors of any specialty in many areas. The whole of America does not live in big cities Sandy.

Patricia, that above post is for you:]

Sally, so you expect women to study pregnancy and abortion on the internet so that they can make an informed decision, and you chide us for attempting to make sure that their decision really is informed... so why can't women look up condoms on the internet, too?

Alexandra, you could learn everything there is to know about condoms much more easily than you could learn all about the concepts of pregnancy and abortion. I'm not sure you answered my question, which is, why is it that pro-aborts seem to assume that women know everything about pregnancy, and also assume that women know nothing about condoms?

When we pro-lifers suggest that women don't know what they're in for when they go to abort, we're accused of attacking women as morons. But I don't see how that differs from the other side saying that women are ignorant when it comes to condoms.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 9, 2008 6:49 PM
...................................................

No John, I find sooooo much misinformation on the internet. This blog being a prime example. I suggest the use of libraries and perhaps speaking to experts on whatever particular subject they wish to learn about. Do you have a problem with that?

Well Sally you'd be surprised at how many people go into a library and can't find even the most basic information.
They don't know how to use the library catalogue, sign onto the Internet, or find a book, use a database.
Some have never used google.
Some are too scared, upset, intimidated
Then there is the issue of finding accurate authoritative information.
The woman has to sort through this book, that website etc. Try approaching the reference librarian to ask for information on condoms?

A woman considering an abortion should be told EXACTLY what the procedure involves, the development stage of her baby and be able to see that baby on an ultrasound. That would be the beginning of informed choice, to me.
This information should come from an accredited source who does not stand to gain financially from the abortion.

Sally, I personally don't have a problem with a person unless they are killing another human being so that they may carry on with an uninterrupted lifestyle.

And Sally, abortion is murder.

A waiting period wouldn't be too expensive seeing as abortion would be free. So you would save about $500.

Hey maybe there could be separate counseling centers, smaller centers located in more areas where they do counseling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/washington/08cnd-policy.html

less than a year now.

Actually there is a shortage of doctors of any specialty in many areas. The whole of America does not live in big cities Sandy.

Posted by: Sally at March 9, 2008 6:56 PM
Yeah, that's kind of the point Sally. So quit whining that abortionists aren't available everywhere and anytime a woman needs an abortion.

Re; The woman who had 7 abortions. What can I say? She was a hard headed woman who really believed that abortion was the way to go. She was just a reproductive slob who told me "I don't use any contraception." She did have multiple sex partners, and she drank a lot. After her 7th abortion, she began to experience heavy vaginal bleeding. It wouldn't stop, so she went to see a reputable OBGYN. He told her that she would have to have a hysterectomy. I couldn't really tell you what was wrong, but the doctor did tell her that the bleeding was d/t a damaged uterus. She has run out of choices.

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 6:56 PM
.........................................

Sounds like she had many issues. I have a man friend who briefly dated a woman that had had at least 7 abortions. Unlike your acquaintance, she had tried almost every bc method under the sun. Fertile Myrtle kept getting pregnant. The last time I ran into her, she was trying out some new inter-uterine hormonal bc. Frankly, I didn't buy her story. I believe that she got pregnant for the purpose of trapping herself a provider and when it didn't work, aborted. Takes all kinds Heather. I feel relieved for my friend that he didn't get stuck with her. He understands the use of condoms and figured out how many emotional problems the woman had and was unwilling to deal with.

Plus abortion is a time sensitive procedure. As far as I know almost all other elective surgeries take time to meet with a doctor, discuss the procedure, set up a time and other things. I waited a few days in between when I visited my doctor and the time I had my wisdom teeth removed.

Sally, you did make me chuckle with the "Fertile Myrtle" comment. Anyway, your friend could have used a rubber. Where does a man's role come into play in these situations? Any woman who wouldn't make a man use a rubber is pretty foolish. Any man who wouldn't use one is also foolish. It's 50/50. We are also talking about diseases.

I also have a gay friend with HIV.

Jess, I also waited to have my foot surgery.

He understands the use of condoms and figured out how many emotional problems the woman had and was unwilling to deal with.

Posted by: Sally at March 9, 2008 7:16 PM************* okay. I missed that part.

OOPS, I've gone off track. I suppose the point is this. People shouldn't be sleeping around to begin with, but we know that they will despite all of the things that could go wrong. That woman had emotional problems? He probably shouldn't have touched her. I'm willing to bet that her emotional issues stemmed from her sleeping around to begin with.

Sally, I don't call a living child a mistake.

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 6:37 PM
....................................

I don't call an embryo a child. I find it dishonest to prescribe the attributes of an actual child to that of an actual embryo. And face it, in discussing abortion, that is the vast majority of concepti involved

"I'm willing to bet that her emotional issues stemmed from her sleeping around to begin with."

Ooooooor she had very low self-esteem due to issues growing up (such as an absent father) and was looking for men to shallowly fill that void that she had...

Ari and all- ahh. My hands are so tired. I think I'd better call it a night.

My thoughts are getting muddled. Somg wore me out earlier. LOL!

Sally said: "No John, I find sooooo much misinformation on the internet. This blog being a prime example. I suggest the use of libraries and perhaps speaking to experts on whatever particular subject they wish to learn about. Do you have a problem with that?"

Not at all, Sally. I'm just wondering how it is that according to pro-aborts, women are supremely educated on the matters of pregnancy and abortion, while also according to pro-aborts, women know nothing about condoms. When it comes to abortion, women are apparently expected to go learn on their own, but with condoms, we need to have massive comprehensive sex ed courses to educate them.

That's what is really confounding to me.

Sally,

there are many abortions past viabilty. (even if it's 5 %, thats 50,000 per year), besides, just because a fetus is small in the early stages doesn't mean he/she shouldn't have rights. Should a 50 year old have rights than a 1 yr old. See the absurdity.

Good nite all.

Heather said: "Anyway, your friend could have used a rubber. Where does a man's role come into play in these situations? Any woman who wouldn't make a man use a rubber is pretty foolish. Any man who wouldn't use one is also foolish."

But Heather, condoms are soooooo complicated. Ignorant women can't be expected to know how to use them without undergoing in depth sex ed classes which GEORGE BUSH opposes.

And remember, women are all experts on pregnancy and abortion, without exception. Anyone who says otherwise is a misogynist.

SoMG, stop insulting Heather.

John, ROFL! jasper, thank you!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2382697&op=1&o=all&view=all&subj=2214375888&aid=-1&oid=2214375888&id=504965636

Interesting?

jasper, actually his insults just prove to me that he/she can't refute me. Again, I didn't see a single fact posted;]

OOPS, I've gone off track. I suppose the point is this. People shouldn't be sleeping around to begin with, but we know that they will despite all of the things that could go wrong. That woman had emotional problems? He probably shouldn't have touched her. I'm willing to bet that her emotional issues stemmed from her sleeping around to begin with.

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 7:29 PM
.............................................................

She had been sexually abused by her father. Clearly she believed that sex was the only way of getting the attention of/being cared for by a man. She was really a good person just needed professional help. And lots of it. My friend is a big mush for women in trouble. I'm glad that he encouraged her to get that help and equally glad that he cut it off when she refused.

I can't log in. What am I missing?

I know I said goodnight, but I am between brushing my teeth and putting on my PJs.

heather, some places in southern China is making hair elastics out of used condoms. They say this can spread STD's.

vedy indarrrrrrrrresting

The hair elastics looked pretty cool though. Plus recycling is nice.

ot at all, Sally. I'm just wondering how it is that according to pro-aborts, women are supremely educated on the matters of pregnancy and abortion, while also according to pro-aborts, women know nothing about condoms. When it comes to abortion, women are apparently expected to go learn on their own, but with condoms, we need to have massive comprehensive sex ed courses to educate them.

That's what is really confounding to me.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 9, 2008 7:35 PM
...................

Well John. Woman not having the necessary equipment to become experts on condom usage, perhaps men could become the experts.
Do you have a problem with self educating John? Do you believe women incapable or doing so? Apparently you think men incapable.

What if you can't book a library appointment in time?

Posted by: heather at March 9, 2008 6:38 PM
..............................

You have to have an appointment to read books at your local library?

Sally, I think men are perfectly capable of learning about condoms. But that's not the point.

I'm going to try to make this as simple as possible. Why is it assumed that women are experts on pregnancy and abortion, but at the same time it's also assumed that women know nothing about condoms?

Oh you're going on a date? Here take this, *unravels hair elastic* Just wash it out first.

Sally,

there are many abortions past viabilty. (even if it's 5 %, thats 50,000 per year), besides, just because a fetus is small in the early stages doesn't mean he/she shouldn't have rights. Should a 50 year old have rights than a 1 yr old. See the absurdity.

Posted by: jasper at March 9, 2008 7:36 PM
...................................................

Jasper, Your new tone of civility is quite refreshing. Having said that:
Size is irrelevant. The fact that an embryo has not developed the essential organs necessary to live as a separate human being lives, is relevant. The absolute fact that a woman is essential in providing the materials for that development is relevant. The question is, should she be forced to provide those materials?

Now, what do you mean by many abortions past viability? My niece had an abortion past the date of average gestational viability to terminate her pregnancy with a nonviable fetus. Do you take issue with her doctor protecting her ability to have gestated successfully at the next attempt?
You know very well that most states have laws against past viability abortion for viable pregnancies. It is sheer fantasy that thousands of women are running out to have abortions while pregnant with concepti perfectly capable of living as a separate entity. You do understand that viability is not determined by a date on a calendar?

Sally, I think men are perfectly capable of learning about condoms. But that's not the point.

I'm going to try to make this as simple as possible. Why is it assumed that women are experts on pregnancy and abortion, but at the same time it's also assumed that women know nothing about condoms?

Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 9, 2008 8:08 PM
......................................................

Who has made any such assumptions John? A woman may educate herself or she may not. Do you believe that women should be forced to educate themselves about pregnancy before being allowed to continue one?
I was certainly never educated about the dangers and complications of pregnancy by my OB/GYNS. I most certainly have been informed of such before any medical procedure I have undergone including abortion. I really don't understand what your issue is.

Not at all, Sally. I'm just wondering how it is that according to pro-aborts, women are supremely educated on the matters of pregnancy and abortion, while also according to pro-aborts, women know nothing about condoms. When it comes to abortion, women are apparently expected to go learn on their own, but with condoms, we need to have massive comprehensive sex ed courses to educate them.

That's what is really confounding to me.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 9, 2008 7:35 PM
...................................................

Perhaps you are confused about who actually needs to use the condom to prevent pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.
Excuse me dumb dumb, before we have sex, let me tell you about what I learned in sex ed since I know you males aren't allowed to take the class. @@

Now, what do you mean by many abortions past viability? My niece had an abortion past the date of average gestational viability to terminate her pregnancy with a nonviable fetus. Do you take issue with her doctor protecting her ability to have gestated successfully at the next attempt?
Posted by: Sally at March 9, 2008 8:30 PM

AAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sally,
You insist on comparing a procedure to remove a non-living baby from a mother's womb with an abortion of a viable living baby.

Why do you keep doing this????????????????

John,
Do you just want to go running with scissors at this point?
The question is just not that hard to understand nor to answer.

"The question is, should she be forced to provide those materials?"

yes, anything less is murder. All the fetus needs is nutrients and oxyegen to survive and since it was the mother you gave life to the unborn child, she should not be able to take it away.

Viabilty is irrelavent.

should I be forced to feed and house my children?

Perhaps you are confused about who actually needs to use the condom to prevent pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.
Excuse me dumb dumb, before we have sex, let me tell you about what I learned in sex ed since I know you males aren't allowed to take the class. @@

Posted by: Sally at March 9, 2008 8:44 PM

What on earth does this even mean?

Sally, usually when we refer to viability, we are referring to babies who are otherwise alive but are aborted.

There isn't much debate when it comes to babies that are already naturally dead, and the "abortion" referring to removal.

We should at least all agree that if a baby can theoretically survive outside the womb, that would be a definite indication that the baby has all of the equipment needed to be considered a person?

should I be forced to feed and house my children?
---------------------------------------
No you can give them to the government but don't expect to get them back : /

Why do "pro-lifers" hate children?

First it was the big, bloody fetus photos pushed into the faces of tiny children. We then had protests if front of homes with children ON CHRISTMAS.

The fetus-fetishist have just hit a new low:
Horton Hears an Abortion Protest

Full Story: http://tmz.com/

All hell broke loose at the premiere of "Horton Hears a Who!" today when a group of pro-lifers infiltrated the screening, then chanted anti-abortion slogans after the flick.

The theme of the movie is based on the motto: "After all, a person is a person, no matter how small." So the pro-lifers thought it was a good idea to use this theme to their advantage -- even though their complicated message was falling mostly on the ears of children.

The stars in attendance included Victoria Beckham and her three kids, Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy, Steve Carell and all 12 contestants from "American Idol."

After the chanting ended, the group put red tape over their mouths that said "Life" on them, and paraded around the event.

Shouts of protest were returned by some in attendance, including, "This is a kids premiere," "How dare you," and "Do you really care that much about this?"

Sally, usually when we refer to viability, we are referring to babies who are otherwise alive but are aborted.

There isn't much debate when it comes to babies that are already naturally dead, and the "abortion" referring to removal.

We should at least all agree that if a baby can theoretically survive outside the womb, that would be a definite indication that the baby has all of the equipment needed to be considered a person?

Posted by: prettyinpink at March 9, 2008 9:05 PM
................................................

Theory does not define actuality PIP. When referring to stats of viability it is essential to understand the definition of viability being used. Is it a theoretical date in time or actual biological fact?

Well a lot of medicine and development is theoretical. We're talking about average viability here...I guess we won't know for certain for each individual unless we take the baby out to see if it lives..
but these kind of standards abound for everything. We have theoretical ages for a lot of development but it has a standard of deviation. But we still legislate based on these developments. We give 18 the age of theoretical mental and emotional maturity, but we all know there are deviations to that as well. Why not err on the side of life? If we know it's possible for the baby to live outside the womb, don't you find it morally wrong to kill them with the same frequency?

Why do "pro-lifers" hate children?

First it was the big, bloody fetus photos pushed into the faces of tiny children. We then had protests if front of homes with children ON CHRISTMAS.

The fetus-fetishist have just hit a new low:
Horton Hears an Abortion Protest

Full Story: http://tmz.com/

All hell broke loose at the premiere of "Horton Hears a Who!" today when a group of pro-lifers infiltrated the screening, then chanted anti-abortion slogans after the flick.

The theme of the movie is based on the motto: "After all, a person is a person, no matter how small." So the pro-lifers thought it was a good idea to use this theme to their advantage -- even though their complicated message was falling mostly on the ears of children.

The stars in attendance included Victoria Beckham and her three kids, Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy, Steve Carell and all 12 contestants from "American Idol."

After the chanting ended, the group put red tape over their mouths that said "Life" on them, and paraded around the event.

Shouts of protest were returned by some in attendance, including, "This is a kids premiere," "How dare you," and "Do you really care that much about this?"
Posted by: FetusFascist at March 9, 2008 9:31 PM
.................................................

It totally amazes me at the number of people that still believe that little spermies are microscopic babies just looking for a nice warm and dark place to grow bigger. Like some kind of bacteria.
And so dedicated to their delusions that they find it necessary to make complete and total fools of themselves.
At least these fools gave attending parents an opportunity to illustrate to their children the danger of lack of education without adding the need to educate on how to duck and dodge bullets.

"No you can give them to the government"

so can a pregnant mom.

Well a lot of medicine and development is theoretical. We're talking about average viability here...I guess we won't know for certain for each individual unless we take the baby out to see if it lives..
but these kind of standards abound for everything. We have theoretical ages for a lot of development but it has a standard of deviation. But we still legislate based on these developments. We give 18 the age of theoretical mental and emotional maturity, but we all know there are deviations to that as well. Why not err on the side of life? If we know it's possible for the baby to live outside the womb, don't you find it morally wrong to kill them with the same frequency?

Posted by: prettyinpink at March 9, 2008 10:10 PM
..........................................................

You are taking the woman out of the equation. In my lifetime I have seen societies view of gestation go from, well we might be wrong that the fetus is dead so let's just leave it there to it's a living baby from the moment a sperm meets an ovum so it must be left there. Both leave the woman and her necessity in the creation of a baby completely out of consideration. Both ignoring the obvious life of the woman.
Measurement of time doesn't apply to the creation of a human being. It is a biological hit and miss that is not governed by mathematics. Statistical theories are a cold and meaningless substitute for the actual experiences of women.
If you fear errors, err on the obviously existing life.

PIP, honestly, you are full of positive energy. You have the power to make positive change in the world. Be careful of stomping all over the experiences of your foremothers with your notions of what needs to change, how and why. My generation isn't dead yet.

Theodore Giesel (Dr Suess) was NOT a right-to-lifer and he threatened to sue a right-to-life group (I forget which) for using the slogan "A person's a person, no matter how small".

Where am I taking the woman out of the equation? She should use birth control at her leisure, get free pre-natal care, health care, and support during the pregnancy AND after the pregnancy. If her health is in danger of course we would deal with that.
Yes, the baby depends on the woman, but they are both people who have the right to life, and quality of life. If I'm missing something in my judgement explain to me what it is.

"Be careful of stomping all over the experiences of your foremothers with your notions of what needs to change, how and why. My generation isn't dead yet."

PIP, watch out for the worst generation.

America has been weaken by The Worst Generation. Those born after World War II, the Baby Boom generation, are in large part the authors of political correctness. They are the clever lawyers (gave us Roe v Wade), professors, politicians and journalists that came of age in the 60’s and early 70’s. At their very core they have a deep hatred for traditional American values.

divorce is at it’s highest rate ever…

fatherlessness is at it’s highest rate ever… (this is the main crux of nearly all of America’s problems)

marital infidelity is at it’s highest rate ever…

suicide is at it’s highest rate ever…

abortion is at it’s highest rate ever…

Now, what do you mean by many abortions past viability? My niece had an abortion past the date of average gestational viability to terminate her pregnancy with a nonviable fetus. Do you take issue with her doctor protecting her ability to have gestated successfully at the next attempt?
Posted by: Sally at March 9, 2008 8:30 PM

AAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sally,
You insist on comparing a procedure to remove a non-living baby from a mother's womb with an abortion of a viable living baby.

Why do you keep doing this????????????????

Posted by: Sandy at March 9, 2008 8:48 PM
......................................

Sandy, abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Nothing more and nothing less. Viable means the ability to survive birth. Nothing more and nothing less.

Where am I taking the woman out of the equation? She should use birth control at her leisure, get free pre-natal care, health care, and support during the pregnancy AND after the pregnancy. If her health is in danger of course we would deal with that.
Yes, the baby depends on the woman, but they are both people who have the right to life, and quality of life. If I'm missing something in my judgement explain to me what it is.

Posted by: prettyinpink at March 9, 2008 11:08 PM
.......................................................

PIP, equating a zygote to a woman is insulting. Both are not people. Women haven't been people for any great length of time in this country. The medical community in this country got interested in women and gestation only after women won the right to vote and work at more than scrubbing toilets, watching other people's children, cleaning houses and relieving men's sexual frustration.
Only after women actually were able to pay doctors did doctors get interested in providing services to women. Like decent gestational care. Like they knew anything about that. @@
The faster women started earning money, the faster the medical community started working on technology to provide their services to women's needs and desires.
It is admirable of you to wish to do the things for women that women have been working to get from their society for very much longer than you or I have been alive. You go girl!
But listen to me well, you will be smacked down in every attempt if you pander to your dogma. Dogmatics don't like progress that doesn't profit their establishment.

Theodore Giesel (Dr Suess) was NOT a right-to-lifer and he threatened to sue a right-to-life group (I forget which) for using the slogan "A person's a person, no matter how small".

Yes, but Theodore Giesel is now dead. And he now knows the truth. And I bet that if he could, he would be the first to promote the slogan today...can't help but wonder if he isn't working from heaven, and at such a crucial juncture in time, he hasn't had a hand in Horton coming out right now...I don't believe in coincidence...

"Do you really care that much about this?"

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 9, 2008 9:31 PM******** Of course.

AAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sally,
You insist on comparing a procedure to remove a non-living baby from a mother's womb with an abortion of a viable living baby.

Why do you keep doing this????????????????

Posted by: Sandy at March 9, 2008 8:48 PM

Sandy, I agree there is some major confusion here. Sally, it's not the same thing!

Shouts of protest were returned by some in attendance, including, "This is a kids premiere," "How dare you," and "Do you really care that much about this?"

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 9, 2008 9:31 PM********* Well, abortion is just a choice. Why were people upset?

Sally,

let's just talk about 3rd trimester babies. What do you think about late abortions on live babies?

and yeah, women have really been the 2nd class citizens of the country and in several ways things still aren't equal. Hopefully we will continue to improve this front.

pip, good question.

divorce is at it’s highest rate ever…
fatherlessness is at it’s highest rate ever… (this is the main crux of nearly all of America’s problems)
marital infidelity is at it’s highest rate ever…
suicide is at it’s highest rate ever…
abortion is at it’s highest rate ever…

Posted by: jasper at March 9, 2008 11:11 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jasper, I hate to break it to you, but the divorce rate has been declining since 1970, and suicide and abortion have both been declining over the last 15-20 years due to better contraception and SSRIs.
I don't know about fatherlessness or infidelity 'cause I'm too lazy to look it up, but have some carbs and caffeine and try to cheer up.

Posted by: FetusFascist at March 9, 2008 9:31 PM********* Well, abortion is just a choice. Why were people upset?

Posted by: heather at March 10, 2008 7:40 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It has something to do with a bunch of self-righteous a-holes ramming their political agenda down everybody's face at what should have been a silly, lighthearted event for children.

That's a typical pro choicer that you have just described. Look at how judgemental you have been of me, and you don't even know me. Now that's a SELF RITEOUS A hole!!

Talk to a pro choice mom. Oh, according to them they are the BEST mothers around. Kill a few. Keep a few. I used to be pro choice until I figured out that I was surrounding myself with shallow, self riteous, a-holes.

Talk to a pro choice mom.

Posted by: heather at March 10, 2008 9:24 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, you could always talk to Jasper's Quote-of-the-Day girl Uma Thurman. She's a pro-choice mom.

They made me want to puke.

I don't like Uma.

She is just an actress, and what the heck makes them experts on anything?

Should I believe that the UFOs are coming because Tom Cruise says so?

divorce is at it’s highest rate ever…
fatherlessness is at it’s highest rate ever… (this is the main crux of nearly all of America’s problems)
marital infidelity is at it’s highest rate ever…
suicide is at it’s highest rate ever…
abortion is at it’s highest rate ever…

Posted by: jasper at March 9, 2008 11:11 PM
-----------------------------------
And there's a conservative Christian Republican in the White House. Maybe time for a liberal?

that is funny

PP is not

Sandy, abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Nothing more and nothing less. Viable means the ability to survive birth. Nothing more and nothing less.

Posted by: Sally at March 10, 2008 12:02 AM

The problem is Sally, you keep insisting that pro-lifers are against the removal of a non-viable fetus. You continue to equate it to the elective abortion of a living fetus.
Sheeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
What will it take to get this through to you.

We are against the elective abortion of a living fetus. We are not against the removal of a non-living fetus.

Sally7, a deceased fetus would HAVE to be removed. We aren't disputing that.

"And there's a conservative Christian Republican in the White House. Maybe time for a liberal?"

Jess,
This is something a President can help with but can't completely cure, it's a cultural thing.

"Well, you could always talk to Jasper's Quote-of-the-Day girl Uma Thurman."

That was jill's today FF.

Besides, most abortionists are rapists or molesters.

That was said a long time ago, but I feel the need to point out that a rapist or molester would not be allowed to practice gynecology or obstetrics. Similarly to how a paedophile would not be allowed to practice paediatrics.

Re: the quote of the day...

"I'd like more children. I asked the doctor; she said there's still time. I still have the sippy cups."

I don't see how that is relevant to abortion. I mean, it sweet that she wants more kids and all that, but there seem to be an increasing number of quotes about babies and people desiring babies. Hey! I want kids too! However, it is obvious that anything I say wouldn't be a suitable quote.

Sometimes people just talk about kids without having a political agenda, believe it or not.

Similar to how...

Sorry--must correct my own poor English.

Sally7, a deceased fetus would HAVE to be removed. We aren't disputing that.

Posted by: heather at March 10, 2008 10:54 AM

Here is a little read for you Heather:http://www.msmagazine.com/summer2004/womanandherdoctor.asp

Your PL stance endangers the lives of women. No two ways about it.

That was jill's today FF.

Posted by: jasper at March 10, 2008 10:55 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry Jasper.

(I used to have a chinchilla named Uma Vermin. I miss her. She could fire urine at the cats.)

Laura (FF),

would you ever have an abortion?

Sandy said: "John, Do you just want to go running with scissors at this point? The question is just not that hard to understand nor to answer."

Sandy, I think this proves that it's a very good question to ask the pro-aborts. They are incapable of answering it without contradicting themselves.

Jess said: "And there's a conservative Christian Republican in the White House. Maybe time for a liberal?"

Jess, I have an appropriate analogy to demonstrate the absurdity of your argument.

Consider that a house has leaky pipes in it. The plumber is trying to fix the pipes, but his pipe wrench is old and it doesn't work right. He's trying hard to tighten the pipes so they don't leak, but he isn't having much success.

By your logic, we should replace the old pipe wrench with a sledge hammer and bash the pipes to bits. That's essentially what a liberal would do on all of those issues.

John,
I fully agree. Your question should be easy to answer. The whole pro-abort movement is full of contradictions.

Laura (FF),

would you ever have an abortion?

Posted by: jasper at March 10, 2008 3:46 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't know. I know that abortion was running through my mind when I was 22 and late. I think I had an early miscarriage.
My entire interest in reproductive rights came about when I wanted my tubes tied, and there were suddenly a half-dozen strangers involved in what I consider a very personal decision.
I'm a privacy freak. I think people should mind their own business. I don't want the federal government in my uterus OR my gun case. I think it's in all of our best interests to keep the people who managed Hurricane Katrina out of our pants.

Sally,
Read the story. Your pro-choice movement is the one that hinders health care for women who experience a miscarriage. Miscarriages are never even documented by the CDC.

The doctors and hospitals send women home ALL THE TIME TO MISCARRY ON THEIR OWN BECAUSE TO THEM AND OUR SOCIETIES MENTALITY, IT IS NO BIG DEAL.

Miscarriage is a much ignored women's health issue that gets little to no attention thanks to the pro-aborts, even though 25% of all women will miscarry at some point.

If women squaked more about this issue, maybe we would get the attention from Drs. who would admit this woman right away to induce, they would understand the trauma and grief that women experience from a pregnancy loss.

Natural miscarrige is the least safe method?
Since when? Women have been birthing dead babies for millions of years. Where are the statistics to back up that statement.

With proper medical guidance, there should be no issues with natural miscarriage.

This woman carried around her dead baby for a week in her womb? But.....according to your side it's NOT A BABY.

It's just a parisitical fetus that was invading her body anyways right? So really what do you care? What does she care??

I bet more women have died from legal abortion.

Well, Laura, you will be very happy to learn that I am very much in favor of the spaying and neutering of people who have no intention of living according to Catholic teaching. Yes, voluntary spaying and neutering, of course!

I firmly believe that everyone should have the right to be spayed and neutered, and that you should have the utmost privacy in the process.

I'm sorry that six people got involved when you went in for your spaying, Laura. It's not right. It's just not right.

I bet more women have died from legal abortion.

Teehee! Tell another funny joke!

That's one of the reasons why I'm very against "academic freedom". No, not because I think professors with different points of view should be fired, but because professors can essentially lie to their students and fill their heads with nonsense all in the name of "academic freedom".
Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 9, 2008 7:44 AM

Well, Laura, you will be very happy to learn that I am very much in favor of the spaying and neutering of people who have no intention of living according to Catholic teaching.
Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 10, 2008 4:34 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is it me, or does John sound a little "Naziesque?"

(He loves to believe that his celibacy is a "lifestyle choice." Don't burst his bubble...)

Right on the money cartoon. One prolife activist I know told me that several KKK members came down to visit the sidewalk outside of a southern abortion mill and observing the number of black clients going in for death that morning, said they couldn't improve on things as they were, so they left.

I notice someone remarked that the sign, "the only good baby is a dead baby" is not accurate; of course it is. I doubt whether any mother ever enters a PP facility without the staff at least trying to kill her baby-e.g., sell her "abortion services"- while she is there. They brag about killing over 250,000 children a year that way, and are constantly seeking ways to increase that number. Since most of their quarry -er, clientele- is black, it's hardly a stretch to say that their favorite type of black is a dead one, though they've never been above hiring as many as are necessary to win the trust of their targeted community, much as the Nazis treated the Jews.

Women killed by legal abortion is no joke. At least not to the women killed, their survivors, and anyone who cares about them.

One prolife activist I know told me that several KKK members came down to visit the sidewalk outside of a southern abortion mill and observing the number of black clients going in for death that morning, said they couldn't improve on things as they were, so they left.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah. That happenned @@

LOL FF @5:54

s it me, or does John sound a little "Naziesque?"

(He loves to believe that his celibacy is a "lifestyle choice." Don't burst his bubble...)
Posted by: FetusFascist at March 10, 2008 5:54 PM

..............................

A little? John makes a fine fascist.

Sally,
Read the story. Your pro-choice movement is the one that hinders health care for women who experience a miscarriage. Miscarriages are never even documented by the CDC.

The doctors and hospitals send women home ALL THE TIME TO MISCARRY ON THEIR OWN BECAUSE TO THEM AND OUR SOCIETIES MENTALITY, IT IS NO BIG DEAL.

Miscarriage is a much ignored women's health issue that gets little to no attention thanks to the pro-aborts, even though 25% of all women will miscarry at some point.

If women squaked more about this issue, maybe we would get the attention from Drs. who would admit this woman right away to induce, they would understand the trauma and grief that women experience from a pregnancy loss.

Natural miscarrige is the least safe method?
Since when? Women have been birthing dead babies for millions of years. Where are the statistics to back up that statement.

With proper medical guidance, there should be no issues with natural miscarriage.

This woman carried around her dead baby for a week in her womb? But.....according to your side it's NOT A BABY.

It's just a parisitical fetus that was invading her body anyways right? So really what do you care? What does she care??

I bet more women have died from legal abortion.

Posted by: Sandy at March 10, 2008 4:31 PM
...............................

Bullcrap Sandy, It is your bunch that could care less about women's pregnancies. When you work to ban a procedure you work to ban it completely. It doesn't turn into a procedure that is okey dokey when you say it is.
If not for the feminist movement women would still be getting saddle blocks. Insurance wouldn't cover any kind of female reproductive care. What has the PL movement to improve anything for women? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. You people do absolutely everything in your power to impede the advancement of women from second class citizen status.

One more thing, the more pregnancies, the more opportunity to die from them. I almost bled to death during my miscarriage. If the fetus had not been surgically removed/an abortion had not been administered, I would be dead.

Haha... can't you two read, Laura and Sally? I said I supported voluntary spaying and neutering. The involuntary spaying and neutering of humans is evil and should never be done. Not even to Laura.

Naziesque? Wow. I'd make an appeal to Godwin's Law and declare victory, but that's weak. I'd also post a photograph of myself just to show you how voluntary my celibacy is, but I don't want you doing ungodly things with my picture.

Sandy and Heather,

Thank you both for your welcomes back and concern for my family. My mother is doing so much better, she was malnourished because of stress and depression. Nothing else was found wrong with her. She's markedly improved this past week, but is still recovering and could use assistance so my sister is working on finding a "companion" through social services to assist her. My stepfather will be in assisted living which is the best for both. My mother can easily visit him.

Naziesque? Wow. I'd make an appeal to Godwin's Law and declare victory, but that's weak. I'd also post a photograph of myself just to show you how voluntary my celibacy is, but I don't want you doing ungodly things with my picture.

Posted by: John Lewandowski at March 10, 2008 8:29 PM
............................

Character makes the man John. Religionists with fantasies of power and control turn me off.

Right on the money cartoon. One prolife activist I know told me that several KKK members came down to visit the sidewalk outside of a southern abortion mill and observing the number of black clients going in for death that morning, said they couldn't improve on things as they were, so they left.

I notice someone remarked that the sign, "the only good baby is a dead baby" is not accurate; of course it is. I doubt whether any mother ever enters a PP facility without the staff at least trying to kill her baby-e.g., sell her "abortion services"- while she is there. They brag about killing over 250,000 children a year that way, and are constantly seeking ways to increase that number. Since most of their quarry -er, clientele- is black, it's hardly a stretch to say that their favorite type of black is a dead one, though they've never been above hiring as many as are necessary to win the trust of their targeted community, much as the Nazis treated the Jews.

Women killed by legal abortion is no joke. At least not to the women killed, their survivors, and anyone who cares about them.

Posted by: reality czech at March 10, 2008 6:14 PM
.......................................................

Paranoia strikes deep...............

THe one dimensional Sad Eyed Sally.
Sex=death.
Another post from her past about having sex is a death dealing act.
And for generations upon generations the deathsex anti Catholic klan of Sally, continues their carnage upon themselves.

Sally, you wrote: "Women killed by legal abortion is no joke. At least not to the women killed, their survivors, and anyone who cares about them."

There just aren't very MANY of them. Less than one maternal death per hundred thousand abortions. More than ten times fewer than die in childbirth.

Sally said: "Character makes the man John. Religionists with fantasies of power and control turn me off."

So... you don't like Hugo Chavez?

I don't know. I know that abortion was running through my mind when I was 22 and late. I think I had an early miscarriage.
My entire interest in reproductive rights came about when I wanted my tubes tied, and there were suddenly a half-dozen strangers involved in what I consider a very personal decision.
I'm a privacy freak. I think people should mind their own business. I don't want the federal government in my uterus OR my gun case.********************** You think that people should mind their own business? Good. Then mind YOURS and stop promoting abortion. Gun case? Dear God why am I picturing you as a Chastity Bono or Rosie O'Donnell look alike right now?

You think that people should mind their own business? Good. Then mind YOURS and stop promoting abortion. Gun case? Dear God why am I picturing you as a Chastity Bono or Rosie O'Donnell look alike right now?

Posted by: heather at March 11, 2008 6:41 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1) Staying out of other women's business IS pro-choice.

2) I'm hardly the only gun-owning NRA member who believes in the Second Amendment on this board.

There just aren't very MANY of them. Less than one maternal death per hundred thousand abortions. More than ten times fewer than die in childbirth.

Posted by: SoMG at March 11, 2008 5:15 AM************** Proof please.

Promoting abortion is NOT staying out of a woman's business. Judging women who keep their children is not what I would call staying out of a woman's business. Mind your own business.

One more thing, the more pregnancies, the more opportunity to die from them. I almost bled to death during my miscarriage. If the fetus had not been surgically removed/an abortion had not been administered, I would be dead.

Posted by: Sally at March 10, 2008 7:23 PM

Again Sally,
No one is diputing that you shouldn't have had a D&C procedure to remove your fetus.

The woman in the story could have been induced and delivered the same day.

Sandy,

I hope you read my post to you and Heather last nite.

Hey Mary,
Just got to your post this morning. Glad to hear things are better. A friend of mine is dealing with the same issues regarding her in-laws. They just got them into assisted living which is where they needed to be. They thought the m-i-l was experiencing worsening dementia. Turns out she was not getting the nutrition she needed to function properly.

The story came to a head when her husband walked out of their apartment one cold winter night and disappeared. The police found him in his pjs with no shoes on. They returned him to the apartment in the am. The m-i-l was up and didn't even realize he was mia.

They are thankfully in a good setting with good care. I really feel for you. It must be tough to go through this.

John, I am also in favor of males and females and voluntary sterilization. Why not? It's better than abortion.

One more thing, the more pregnancies, the more opportunity to die from them. I almost bled to death during my miscarriage. If the fetus had not been surgically removed/an abortion had not been administered, I would be dead.

Posted by: Sally at March 10, 2008 7:23 PM

Again Sally,
No one is diputing that you shouldn't have had a D&C procedure to remove your fetus.

The woman in the story could have been induced and delivered the same day.

Posted by: Sandy at March 11, 2008 9:34 AM
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You didn't read the first person article. That would be hard to do with your hands over your eyes.

HI- 1-in 'up from slavery', booker t washington makes this point-the master loses many skills, the slaves gain many, the masters children & household gain little experience/expertise. yet we know the former slaves were not easily able to sell their abilities (work for pay)-so those newly freed still had to break into the job market-was not an easy task, even w/the newfound freedom. some wanted it easier for their children, so enrolled them in Tuskeegee Inst. therefore they were trained.it's likewise sad how in a totalitarian state work/labor is looked down upon by the 'master. reminiscent of the disdain for the family by homosexuals... yet it is 'production' that fosters growth. pardon the pun, could not think of a better way 2 express it. 2-notice the 2nd face on the Margaret Sanger wanabee behind the desk-truly a 2 faced person? nothing charming noticed in that face.