UPDATE, 4:09p: The abortionist responsible for the alleged botch yesterday is Philip Waterman, PP of Naples' sole butcher. Pro-lifers have protested in front of Waterman's Ft. Myers home twice, beginning March 21. Here is a WINK News story on that first protest:
The next protest will be June 27. Go to EndAbortionNow.org for more info.
UPDATE, 3:37p: PP of Collier Co. president and CEO Char Wendel, mentioned in the 3:15p update, is the same Char Wendel who made this silly anti-Tebow video prior to the Super Bowl....
In it Char says the $3 million invested for the Tebow ad would have been better spent to "strengthen American families" by purchasing 600k "cycles" of hormonal contraceptives. I wonder how Char thinks American families are strengthened by botched abortions at her favorite mill?
UPDATE, 3:15p: Look for pro-aborts to try to blame pro-lifers for the botched abortion. From NapleNews.com, May 24:
With respect to abortion rights advocates, a journalist and photographer for Marie Claire magazine visited the PP clinic a few months ago to do an article about the clinic's work in a conservative community such as Naples. The article is expected to be published in July or August, [Char] Wendel [president and CEO of PP of Collier Co.] said....
The journalist and photographer were at the clinic on a Monday and the article's original angle may have switched to focus more on the staff working in an atmosphere with a constant presence of protesters on Mondays, Wendel said.
[HT: Naples pro-life activist Patricia B.]
2:49p: Jivin J posted earlier today about a botched abortion at the Naples Planned Parenthood, committed yesterday.
In addition, NaplesNews.com has posted 3 photos taken by pro-lifer Fred Goduti. Here's one (click to enlarge)...
And here's another photo Fred took from a wider angle that the newspaper chose not to publish (click to enlarge)...
I expect the newspaper cropped to get a tighter close-up of the actual crime scene, if you will. But it's an interesting crop, just the same.
What's the black cloth for? For shielding a patient being carried into an ambulance from the view of praying/protesting pro-lifers?
If an ambulance goes to PP, what else would anybody think of what happened? A Pap-smear gone wrong or a BC overdose?
Methinks PP takes the lies/secrecy of what really happens inside too far...
Botched abortions must happen alot, or they would not have those "sheets of shame" so readily available. Whoever snapped these pictures needs to get the 911 call and share it with the world, it might save a life
It is crazy how they are all ready with the black rolled up cloth. Does this happen every day?Posted by: Todd Bullis at May 25, 2010 3:24 PM
But ... but ... if abortion is so safe, why the black cloth?Posted by: Cranky Catholic at May 25, 2010 3:33 PM
She's also the same Char Wendel who called pro-life sidewalk counselors and protestors "terrorists," and did so on the anniversary of 9/11. All-around loony, if you ask me.Posted by: Kelsey at May 25, 2010 3:45 PM
Just another attempt to hide the truth. Will the woman be carried out covered completely or zipped in a bag? Can't let anyone see that happening in back of a facility providing vital "health care".
Picture #1 doesn't look cropped, slightly different angle - unless they edited out the view of the sign in front of the front tire. Sure would have been nice to have the picture with the sidewalk counselors published also. Powerful juxtaposition of the extremes of the abortion debate.Posted by: jim sable at May 25, 2010 4:04 PM
Calling Lila Rose...another juicy exclusive in the making here...Posted by: RSD at May 25, 2010 4:21 PM
The cloth screen approach was also used recently at the Aurora, IL Planned Parenthood facility. This must be a SOP in the abortion industry now. They do not want the truth about "choice" exposed.Posted by: Jerry at May 25, 2010 4:37 PM
Will there be an investigation at PP? How soon? Who overseas the abortion clinics in Florida?
Naples is a beautiful city. The fact that it is spoiled by having an abortuary is such a shame. One good thing - pro-lifers are motivated to energize. Thanks to the South Florida pro-lifers for your witness for LIFE.Posted by: Janet at May 25, 2010 4:38 PM
Jerry - were there any pictures of the black cloth being used at Aurora? I think it would be good somewhere to bgin a photo compilation of this planned way of minimizing awareness while getting these injured moms out of the clinics and to a decent health care facility in these emergencies.Posted by: Row1 at May 25, 2010 5:13 PM
How much thought, do you suppose, PP put into choosing BLACK? Quite morbid, yes? Why not green, or blue? Or a pattern of daisies?Posted by: Cranky Catholic at May 25, 2010 5:36 PM
The cloth screen approach was also used recently at the Aurora, IL Planned Parenthood facility. This must be a SOP in the abortion industry now.
Someone who knows Abby Johnson should ask her.
The black tarps are used in cities all over the US to protect patient identity. They are used when patients leave their cars and proceed into the clinic. Many anti's are known for taking patient's photographs. Which is why when I escort and the woman is wearing a hoodie, I tell her to put it up to shield her face.Posted by: Grace at May 25, 2010 5:43 PM
Posted by: Grace at May 25, 2010 5:43 PM
The anti-choice movement is all about shaming women - a misogynist thing related to women who don't "know their place." It's very big in the patriarchal Christian churches. The anti-choice zealots have no respect for personal privacy. Otherwise why would they harass women who are accessing what is their legal right? As you say, it's gone beyond the screams of "mommy, mommy, why are you killing me?" and of course the standard "you're gonna burn in hell" to actual photos posted on the internet. But these are the same folks who post doctor's addresses so that the "life" brigade can harass them and their children. But the amazing thing is that women walking into clinics are mostly those whose income necessitate use of a clinic. Women like me, whose health care policies cover abortions, walk into a hospital without the screaming gauntlet. The harassment focuses on lower income women. Nice...Posted by: Maevis at May 25, 2010 6:01 PM
That darn underground railroad, interfering with owners right to keep or kill their slaves...shame on them!! Harriet Beecher Stowe was a terrorist.Posted by: ninek at May 25, 2010 6:49 PM
Welcome. Since you don't know any of us you might want to stick around awhile instead of just thinking that you know "how we are" throwing out names like "zealots" typing it up and hitting post.
Please give us some links to what you are talking about. I assume you are witnessing this on a daily basis. Any video or photos to back up your claims?
Women deserve better than abortion.Posted by: carla at May 25, 2010 6:53 PM
For those unclear on the concept, that last post was an example of sarcasm and hyperbole. ;>)!Posted by: ninek at May 25, 2010 7:04 PM
Posted by: Grace at May 25, 2010 7:06 PM
Posted by: Grace at May 25, 2010 7:07 PM
Posted by: Grace at May 25, 2010 7:09 PM
There's my proof, Carla. What do you have to say now?Posted by: Grace at May 25, 2010 7:16 PM
they also want to hide the woman from any other patients so the patients don't freak out, is my guess. if they saw the black cloth and the ambulance, they might LEAVE and not abort!
The fact that an ambulance was there tells me that there was definitely a botched abortion and that abortion is NOT safe.Posted by: LizFromNebraska at May 25, 2010 7:17 PM
If the pro-lifers standard is "your going to burn in hell" what's the pro-aborts standard "your going to burn in your mother's womb?" And the last statement "The harassment focuses on lower income women" I agree but from a pro-lifers standpoint, we call it eugenics.
First, we don't yell at patients, that's the difference between our two groups. Second, there's a difference between "your" and "you're".
I can think of a few other differences.
Shall we discuss the differences between the two groups.
Here's the difference as I see it, you guys want to give a fertilized egg more rights than a woman.
End of story. You can call abortion murder, tell me I'm going to hell, but I think every woman deserves to make her own healthcare decisions. And you're talking to someone who has had an abortion and given birth.
A woman who doesn't want to be pregnant will find a way to end the pregnancy. Are you going to lock women up for the entire 9 months of pregnancy to make sure she doesn't self-abort? I think adoption is wonderful, but I don't think any woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy against her will.
You can fire off any response you want, but I don't think I'm going to change your mind, and you're definitely not going to change mine. I didn't expect to get into a debate on abortion tonight, but I am waiting to see what clever response Carla has to my proof that anti's take patient's photos and post them online.
How do you feel about cell phone cameras that can take a pic on the spot? Take your pic without you knowing, much less giving your permission. Public cameras that photograph you walking in and out of buildings and even walking on the street?
You can't walk in a hospital without being continually on camera. Every store you enter you are on camera.
Can these pics end up where you don't want them?Posted by: Mary at May 25, 2010 8:02 PM
Mary at May,
Are you kidding me? There's a big difference between SECURITY cameras and anti's taking your picture just so they can post it online and let the world know that you MAY or MAY NOT have gotten an abortion. It's their way of shaming you. And in one of the articles I posted a RTL director agreed that it's not the best tactic to ending abortion.
Look at the abortioncams.com site and let me know if that's the same as a SECURITY camera.
You can fire off any response you want, but I don't think I'm going to change your mind, and you're definitely not going to change mine. I didn't expect to get into a debate on abortion tonight
Huh. Wonder why you commented on a pro-life blog, then.
I was addressing Maevis as it seemed as though she were witnessing this behavior with her own eyes at the abortion clinic near her.
Since you are an escort do you have any footage of the "anti's" that you have witnessed?
My clever response? I do not dispute that some prolifers take photos and post them online. Do I?
Do I stand outside abortion clinics and scream that women are going to burn in hell? No.
Your assertions that all prolifers act a certain way is completely false until you find out that ALL prolifers act like that.
I am post abortive too, btw.
Posted by: carla
at May 25, 2010 8:11 PM
Because others were questioning the use of the black tarp. I let them know that it's for patient confidentiality.
LizfromNE, "they also want to hide the woman from any other patients so the patients don't freak out, is my guess. if they saw the black cloth and the ambulance, they might LEAVE and not abort!"
You can clearly see the black tarp not trying to cover up the ambulance. Read the Chicago Tribune article I posted, a patient had a sheet over her and an anti pulled the sheet off so she could take the woman's picture.
Dream on Grace,
These "security cameras" can be accessed by private detectives, some of whom may be less than scrupulous. You can't always be certain who is viewing these cameras or what they are doing with the information on them, right? Cell phone cameras are for security? Keep dreaming Grace.
Didn't a woman't neighbor plant cameras in her home and film her most intimate moments?
This is the society we live in. You might be very shocked to discover your photo on some sicko website.Posted by: Mary at May 25, 2010 8:14 PM
They don't use black tarp with all patients--only the ones who get injured. That tells me it has less to do with confidentiality and more to do with the abortion center's own reputation.Posted by: Kelsey at May 25, 2010 8:16 PM
Exactly what were the paramedics doing when this "anti" walked up to a patient, pulled off the sheet, and took her picture? I've been working in the medical area 40 years and have never heard of any such thing being permitted at an accident or illness call. I have stopped at accident scenes and no one is allowed near the patient except medical personnel and police.
I have stopped to assist but once paramedics or EMTs arrived, I was expected to leave and most certainly did not take a patient's picture!
I think the main difference between the two groups and please correct me if I'm wrong but the lasts numbers I seen were 52 million. That's the difference between pro-life and pro-death. I have no attention of changing your mind or your heart. If the death of 52 million babies doesn't give your conscience pause than I doubt my words will. I hope though that you do pause when you give pro-lifers grief for advocating for babies.
Carla, everyone knows your "post-abortive", you can't stop talking about your abortion. I on the other hand don't feel the need to tell everyone I had an abortion.
I have witnessed anti's taking patients pictures at two different clinics. One in the midwest and one in the south. Like I said before, when I escort, I tell patients to put their hoodies up to help hide their face.
Pretty sure I saw you at the Good Friday protest at the Highland PP clinic. You were holding a sign that said, "I regret my abortion." I have a question for you, you say you aborted your daughter. But from your earlier posts I'm assuming you had a first trimester abortion, and you can not identify the sex in the first trimester, so are you sure you aborted your daughter?
it has nothing to do with the clinic's reputation. From the picture you can see that they are not trying to hide the clinic sign or the ambulance. It has everything to do with patient confidentiality.
A clinic in PA used tarps but the anti's are suing them, say it violates their first amendment right to give pamphlets to patients.
You should be embarassed to even post this article. A woman, bleeding and wrapped in sheets is transported outside in a wheelchair? This is quality abortion care? It sounds like some third world backwater. How was this woman transported to the hospital? A woman is bleeding and paramedics aren't called? She claims someone tried to pull her sheet off. The proof?
Perhaps if paramedics had been called no one could have gotten this woman's picture. How was she transported to the hospital? In the wheelchair, in someone's car?
Medical records were posted? Was the abortion mill careless with patient records, tossing them in the trash like the abortionist Hodari did? That or it was an inside job.Posted by: Mary at May 25, 2010 8:35 PM
Read the article yourself. It describes the incident.
And I have never seen a site that is meant to shame me for going into the store to buy groceries. Taking patient's pics are meant to shame and intimidate them.
Since only pro-choicers have abortions, that means less pro-choicers in the future so you'll be able to ban abortion in a couple of generations after all the pro-choicers have killed their offspring and there's no one left to fight for choice. So you should actually like abortion, we're killing our own right?
Who the devil is Mary at May?
I'm just Mary. I read the article and as I said in my post, it should embarass you.Posted by: Mary at May 25, 2010 8:39 PM
"It has everything to do with patient confidentiality."
Why the need for confidentiality? Nothing is wrong with abortion right Grace? Be proud. Tell others women to be proud.
I was taken by ambulance after a miscarriage. No black tarp. No confidentiality needed.
Char doesn't appear to sleep very well. Maybe her conscience is bothering her at night.
She has terrible dark bags under her eyes. (:Posted by: Praxedes at May 25, 2010 8:45 PM
Some of the lonely old men who live at my mother's complex access websites where pics of unsuspecting people are posted in compromising situations. Yes your most private moments may well be observed and posted on some sicko website.
The world we live in today.Posted by: Mary at May 25, 2010 8:45 PM
You must know my story if it's all I ever talk about. Which it's not but of course I talk about it here cause this is a prolife blog. :)
Were you the one who flipped me off? Or maybe the one who yelled at me to take care of babies that are already born? Or were you the one who told me "That's just too bad now isn't it??!!" when she read my sign. Good times.Posted by: carla at May 25, 2010 8:52 PM
Why do you assume that pro-choice parents have pro-choice babies? And my intent for anyone is not death it's life. But you're right I'm not going to change your mind and even if you were capable of changing my mind, you could never change my heart. Have a blessed evening. I have math to study, and study, and study. :)
I didn't yell at you, I don't yell at anti's, that's their tactic and they can keep it.
Praxedes, there's a difference between a miscarriage and an abortion. Which is why you didn't need to protect your identity. Were there protestors outside of the location when you had your miscarriage? An anti took those pics at the PP, which is why they used the tarp.
Mary at May, "She claims someone tried to pull her sheet off. The proof?" The proof is the picture that ended up online. Considering a judge asked the photos to be taken off the website proves someone took her picture. Not sure how the patient's records were released.
What I find appalling is that you guys are trying to say it's okay to post patient pictures by telling me my picture is being taken without my knowledge all the time. I know this, I know there's sick websites posting pics of females in comprising situations. But that doesn't make it okay. Do you guys agree with taking patient's pictures?
"Were you the one who flipped me off? Or maybe the one who yelled at me to take care of babies that are already born? Or were you the one who told me "That's just too bad now isn't it??!!" when she read my sign. Good times."
Hmmm... I thought the pro-"choice" side was supposed to be compassionate and pro-woman.Posted by: Lucy at May 25, 2010 9:09 PM
The Nazis didn't like people taking photos of their poor behaviors either. . . .Posted by: Praxedes at May 25, 2010 9:23 PM
If you're so ooncerned for the safety of women, why don't you proaborts post photographic evidence about what a gentle, loving procedure abortion is to women? And please feel free also to post photographic evidence that aborted fetuses are clumps of cells-have yet to see those. We'll wait.
The photos in question could easily have been (and most likely were) planted by proaborts in a feeble attempt to smear prolifers.
I've seen plenty of photos of feminazi proaborts spitting at praying people, flipping them off, dancing around making fools of themselves and shriiiieeeeeking etc. Good luck proving that never happens, having been spit on a few times myself. Take a stroll over to abortionviolence.com
If proaborts ever get any new rhetoric/tactics their heads would explode. Oh well, at least it wouldn't take long to clean up the mess.
Incidentally, there's a big difference between 'your' post-abortive and 'you're.'
See ya.Posted by: Jill Guidry at May 25, 2010 9:24 PM
Grace, why are you here? Methinks the lady doth protest too much. You are waffling, my dear. I have been flipped off, spit at, sworn at, yelled at, etc. by plenty of abortionists. Would you like me to say that's your tactic? I think that pro-life activists ought not to yell, and it's unfortunate that some of them do. But you lump everyone together and try to dehumanize us all. Dehumanizing is another abortionist tactic.
"So you should actually like abortion, we're killing our own right?" you wrote. Here's something you cannot wrap your diseased brain around: I want everyone to live, even people who disagree with me, even children who will grow up to disagree with me. You want people dead that are in your way. Baby not coming at the right time? You think it's a good enough reason to murder. Hey, if the lady in front of me at the supermarket is interfering with my schedule, can I kill her too?
A baby is not his or her mother's body. When my brother was born, my mother did not refer to it as her 'amputation.' You have a right to do what you want with your body, but when you are pregnant, there are at least two of you present.
We're so glad you love us Grace, come back and visit anytime! Kisses!!Posted by: Ninek at May 25, 2010 9:31 PM
Please reread your article. This pic was taken outside the mill with the patient wrapped in sheets and bleeding. What in heaven's name was this woman doing in a situation like that? Had paramedics been called and she had been picked up in the mill, her privacy would have been protected.
She says an "activist" tried to pull the sheet off her face. Mayb this happened, maybe it didn't. The proof?
I'm saying its the world we live in that we may have our pics taken and they may end up where we don't want them. Does it justify this practice? Absolutely not. In this day and age, we are all vulnerable.Posted by: Mary at May 25, 2010 9:42 PM
There's a difference between "ooncerned" and concerned.
I never said a clump of cells, and I know that some pro-choicer's can be nasty, I'm just not one of them. Some anti's kill doctors, but I don't think you would. Abortion is a heated topic, emotions run high. If you don't want to be spat on, don't protest at abortion clinics. When I escort I know I'm going to be yelled at and have my picture taken, but I still do it. The violence on both ends needs to stop. I wish I never had to escort another woman into an abortion clinc, but I will because anti's will show up. I don't want another doctor killed. But women will continue to terminate pregnancies and the anti's won't mind their own business, so here we are. There's no compromise with you guys. You could get every type of restriction on the books in every state but you won't stop until abortion is made illegal. But even if that happens, abortions will continue to happen. I believe a woman should be able to receive a safe,legal abortion. Do some go wrong? Yes, but giving birth doesn't come without risks either, women still die from giving birth in this country. Where's the stories about women dying during birth? With all my pregnancies I ended up in the hospital numerous times, I vomit for 9 months straight. Being pregnant and giving birth was a hundred times worse than my abortion. But I wanted those pregnancies, so that's what I kept telling myself every time I laid in the ER receiving fluids or on the operating table getting yet another kidney stent put in, that the end result would be worth it. But I can't imagine going through what I do when you don't want to be pregnant in the first place.
I couldn't agree more, Grace-we won't stop until abortion is illegal, and it will be. Have a nice night. Will check back another time for your photographic evidence. Abortion is the ultimate violence against the most innocent. If you abhor violence, don't perpetuate and promote it. You reap what you sow. It ain't rocket science.
G'nite.Posted by: Jill Guidry at May 25, 2010 9:53 PM
The abortion clinic was across the street from a hospital. Clinic staff got her to the hospital faster than waiting for an ambulance would have.
The patient was already in the hospital when an anti tried to pull the sheet of her. So I'm assuming the crowd of anti's followed the patient. If I was in that position I would have put the patient in my vehicle and driven her across the street so the anti's could not get close. But I wasn't there and neither were you. So instead of questioning the abortion patient and staff why can't you just say that what the anti's did was awful?
Grace, please take your own advice that you so readily snapped at us. There is a difference between your and you're , remember? So you should have typed "Everyone knows you'RE post-abortive" when conversing with Carla. Just sayin, since you think you're (see, thats the correct way there)so clever.
That being said, I would also like to explain a simple biological principle you need to know if you're going to debate and not sound like an uneducated bimbo, there is not such thing as a fertilized egg. There is an egg called an ovum BEFORE penetration by a sperm. Once the sperm penetrates there is no more sperm or egg. I do believe the new human is then called a zygote, and then a blastocyst a week later, if I'm not mistaken. But fertilized egg is not correct.
Troy and Todd, I also thought it weird they had the black cloth already at hand! I guess you gotta plan ahead when you know you're gonna butcher women from time to time.
Why Grace I really wish my gynecologist had had a black sheet ready when I left her office two weeks ago. I think I may suggest it to my dentist, its so darned embarrassing to get your teeth cleaned. While we're at it I think my dermatologist ought to invest in one too. Where do you buy them Grace, just so I can let my docs know.Posted by: Sydney M. at May 25, 2010 10:01 PM
Ninek, "if the lady in front of me at the supermarket is interfering with my schedule, can I kill her too?"
Is the lady in front of you at the supermarket inside your body and will stay there for 9 months?
You came close to making abortion legal in South Dakota in 2006 and 2008, yet both bans failed at the polls. South Dakota is ranked as the 3rd most pro-life state in the country. So what went wrong? Why did the abortion bans fail? What's your plan for banning abortion?
I don't care what a fertilized cell is, is it a child? No, it's a developing child. That argument doesn't mean much to me, the issue to me is that women have control over their bodies. That women get to make their own decisions.
I'm a bimbo? And I thought the pro-lifer's were so compassionate. I wouldn't call you a name. Look, we're on separate sides when it comes to abortion, but do you really have to call people names?
And I don't really care what it is during the first few weeks or even months. It's in a woman's body and she has a right to her body and what's inside it. I do believe there should be some restrictions on abortions. I believe women should look at their ultrasounds, but I don't think you should physically make her.Posted by: Grace at May 25, 2010 10:14 PM
Do you guys agree with taking patient's pictures?
Posted by: Grace at May 25, 2010 9:08 PM
Personally I don't agree with posting pics online. I don't like it when prolifers post pics of patients or clinic staff. And I don't like it when proaborts post pics and license plate info of prolife protestors.
I explored one of the sites you linked to, Grace, and found video of a clinic worker assaulting a prolife protestor. I'm not going to post a link because of the worker's foul language. But watching that vid and personally meeting a local prolifer who was assaulted by clinic staff, I can understand why any prolifer would want to photograph or video as much as possible during their time outside a clinic for self-protection. But I would not approve of posting those images online unless there was a purpose, such as documenting unprovoked assaults. Or spitting, which you appear to condone.Posted by: Fed Up at May 25, 2010 10:15 PM
Grace, dear, snarky darling, I didn't call you a bimbo. I said you I wanted to educate you a little on biology so you don't SOUND like a bimbo. I mean you're (see thats the correct use again) snarking all over everyone here about your and you're and what not and then you go use an incorrect, biologically impossible term. Just sayin! lol.Posted by: Sydney M. at May 25, 2010 10:25 PM
And my name is Sydney. I am a 29 year old mother (that means I'm female!) Syd is a man's name.Posted by: Sydney M. at May 25, 2010 10:27 PM
Syd is a nickname. My niece is named Sydney, and we call her Syd. I'll keep calling you Syd if you keep calling me snarky, dear and a bimbo.Posted by: Grace at May 25, 2010 10:33 PM
How do you physically make a woman view an ultrasound that she doesn't want to see?
The language of ultrasound bills state that an abortionist is REQUIRED to offer to show a woman the ultrasound before her abortion. She can REFUSE to see it but has to by law be offered the chance to see her growing child before she dies. She has to sign a form stating that she refused to see it when offered.
Why do some proaborts become so unhinged when it comes to ultrasound??? Why do they fight so hard about women getting as much information about her baby as she can?? Maybe you can answer that for us, Grace.Posted by: carla at May 25, 2010 10:33 PM
Grace...so you call your niece Syd out of spite? What a mean aunt you must be! Do you like to make your niece cry? Come on, be honest! I bet you like making kiddies cry don't you! Thats why you escort at an abortion clinic. You suddenly make sense to me. Ick.Posted by: Sydney M. at May 25, 2010 10:40 PM
All right, girls. I'll have to put you both in time out!! :P
I think for the most part pro aborts would like us to just shut up and go away. Not gonna happen.
I am glad you commented tonight. I will only say this once. IF you ever need any help in abortion recovery please let me know. If you are ever struggling and don't know who to talk to please get in touch with me. If you ever just want to tell me your story I would listen.
Posted by: carla
at May 25, 2010 10:49 PM
But she started it!!!!!
Just kidding. Night, Carla. And you too Grace!Posted by: Sydney M. at May 25, 2010 10:51 PM
The entire family calls her Syd, in fact, her mom who is pro-life, started calling her Syd and it stuck. So, no, I don't like to make kids cry.
I don't know why pro-choicer's oppose ultrasounds. I'm assuming because it's always anti-choice legislators who propose the ultrasound bills. If a friend came to me for advice, I would suggest they think seriously about all their options. That includes giving birth and keeping the baby, adoption, and abortion. I would tell them that some women do regret their abortions, but some do not. It's about choice, all the choices available.
Most women know about CPC's. If they wanted their help, they would go to one. You guys try to elect all the anti's you can, and I'll keep voting for the pro-choice candidates. This I don't have a problem with. What I don't understand is the protesters at abortion clinics. Every single woman I have escorted has been very clear in her choice, I have never seen a woman listen to a sidewalk counselor or take their information. Why can't you just leave them alone?
No offense, but you've been praying for abortion to end since 1973, and it hasn't worked, why do you think that is?
Carla, thanks for your offer, but I am 100% okay with my abortion. It was for medical reasons and not convenience.
Just one last logic item: the woman in front of me at the supermarket is a human and the baby growing inside me is also a human. But one has the legal right to keep on living, while the other has no legal right to keep on living. Humans don't hatch from pods. Humans spend a temporary time inside their mothers. Lots of mammals do. Our mothers do not have the right to kill us just because we are small and have no audible voice. Abraham Lincoln once said, "We do not have the right to do what is wrong."
Good night John-boy. :>)Posted by: ninek at May 25, 2010 11:11 PM
I know women who were forced into having abortions.
I know Women who changed their minds and were glad they changed thier minds.
There's been medical doctors who have come forward and described what abortion is and have said that it IS a life that is destroyed. There's been nurses who have done the same.
Posted by: Mother In Texas
at May 26, 2010 12:50 AM
Here's the difference as I see it, you guys want to give a fertilized egg more rights than a woman.
Posted by: Grace at May 25, 2010 8:02 PM
If that zygote is a woman or a man - a human being, then it has the same rights:
"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote). ... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual." (Carlson, Bruce M., Patten's Foundations of Embryology, 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p.3.)
"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote." [Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]
"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zygtos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being." [Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]
"Although human life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed. ... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity." (O'Rahilly, Ronan and Müller, Fabiola. Human Embryology and Teratology, 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29).
"the term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops. It is synonymous with the terms fecundation, impregnation and fertilization ... The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life." (J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Freidman. Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers, pages 17 and 23.)
"Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." [Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]
"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus." (Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146.
"every time a sperm cell and ovum unite, a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition." (E.L. Potter, M.D., and J.M. Craig, M.D. Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant (3rd Edition). Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975, page vii.)
"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life." [Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]Posted by: Chris Arsenault at May 26, 2010 5:14 AM
For those of you condemning the use of cameras, video and otherwise, it's for evidence if anything happens. Many times pro-lifers are spit at, slapped, hit, beat up, and abused in many other ways when they're trying to protest, offer help to a woman entering a clinic, or let the woman know about abortionists like this quack who botches the procedure, injuring women. The evidence is so that they can go to court and successfully sue the people who perpetrate this violence.
It also proves that there is more pro-abortion violence than pro-life violence. I've bookmarked over 30 videos showing pro-"choice" violence on YouTube, where there are a paltry few actually proving pro-life violence. Most pro-"choice" videos about pro-life violence are about the same incident: the Tiller case. Pro-aborts and the MSM can't get over ONE case of pro-life terrorism. They're nowhere to be found on the MANY incidents against pro-lifers.
Therefore, there is a reason for those cameras, and it's not to infringe on anyone's privacy. In fact, I abhor when I find a video on YouTube that is not showing anything but the faces of those entering a clinic. That IS an infringement on a person's privacy, and it's WRONG. However, videos documenting proof to make a case are not wrong, so long as the part posted is cut to the incident.Posted by: Amy at May 26, 2010 6:03 AM
You could get every type of restriction on the books in every state but you won't stop until abortion is made illegal. But even if that happens, abortions will continue to happen.
Yeah, rape continue to happen too. Not getting your point Grace.Posted by: Praxedes at May 26, 2010 7:03 AM
"And I thought the pro-lifer's were so compassionate. I wouldn't call you a name. Look, we're on separate sides when it comes to abortion, but do you really have to call people names?"
Oh, I get it. You can show up and accuse us of doing things we don't do - telling women they're going to hell, thinking "fertilized eggs" (whatever those are) should have more rights than women - but you DIDN'T CALL US NAMES, so you've got the moral high road.
Women who have lived long enough to be born and get pregnant were given the chance to live. If we want unborn babies to be given the chance to live, how is that giving them "more rights" than women?
And oh wow, Carla talking about her abortion on a pro-life website, how bizarre is that? Maybe John Newton:
should have quit talking at abolitionist meetings about how he used to be the captain of a slave ship.Posted by: Marauder at May 26, 2010 8:23 AM
Oh, and I love the whole "if you don't want to get spit on, don't protest" thing. I'm sure that if a friend of yours was spit at by pro-lifers while protesting for keeping abortion legal, you'd say that to her too, right?Posted by: Marauder at May 26, 2010 8:28 AM
I am sure I will be seeing you on the other side soon. I won't be name calling or spitting or flipping you off.
If I thought you were sincere I might answer some of your questions.
I will NEVER stop talking about how abortion affected me and my life. I will NEVER stop reaching out to women in a crisis who need love and support and caring before, during and AFTER(yes, after)their pregnancies. I will NEVER stop offering hope and healing to men and women who regret their abortions. Until the day I die I will stand up and I will not be silent.
So the battle for hearts and minds continues.
Carry on, Grace. See you out there.Posted by: carla at May 26, 2010 8:41 AM
Actually, I suspect "Grace" is involved with this abortion mill somehow and is purposely trolling here in an attempt to divert attention from the article.
Anyone else getting that suspicion?Posted by: Keli Hu at May 26, 2010 9:26 AM
I have experienced all these things.
"anti-choice"? Just what is the 'choice' here? What to have for lunch? No law, no legal system can make an intrinsic evil right. Yes, the abortion mills target poorer women and there is a reason as it follows Margaret Sanger's ideas of eugenics.
There is nothing about health care here!!!! No one is sick here. It is not about the mother's body which she chose to use for sex. It is about the separate human being growing within her that she is going to kill. Deliberately taking the life of an innocent human being is called murder. Do not think that any women can ever really get past that. She may deny it. She may get to be a millitant pro-abortion advocate but in her soul she knows she killed her child and she will know it for the rest of her life.
She also killed the life of God in her soul!!!!
The devil gets the life of the child and the spiritual life of the mother. She must repent! She must seek forgiveness. The guilt comes out in many ways--in depression and so on.
And the link between abortion and cancer is one they like to hide but it is there.
There is a city policeman guarding the doors of our campus abortuary. Like guarding Auschwitz. Let the killing go on undisturbed so that the college girls can have their sex and their fun and terminate the consequences. Let them be used as sexual objects with no dignity and then kill their children. Yeah, that is legal but it will never be right.
Yeah, Keli...for a first time troller she sounds very defensive...more than the usual pro-abort.
She also stated: "I do believe there should be some restrictions on abortions."
Hmm..I wonder why she believes that? Could there be anything wrong with abortion that she doesn't like?Posted by: RSD at May 26, 2010 11:05 AM
I used to be a sidewalk counselor and I never, never screamed "babykiller" or told people they were going to hell or anything like that. We just tried to talk to the women (many were young girls who were being brought by older women, who I assumed were their mothers)and give them pro-life literature. Some would take it, but many wouldn't.
At the PP here, clinic workers used to come out and ridicule prolife protestors and take OUR pictures -- do you oppose this too, Grace?Posted by: phillymiss at May 26, 2010 11:37 AM
Grace lives near me and has spotted me at the Good Friday Prayer Vigil in front of PP in St. Paul, MN.
I am not hard to miss. I am the one with the I Regret My Abortion sign. Which really seems to provoke others. Although I am not sure what part of "I" they don't understand.
Just prayed at the site of the proposed mega "eco-friendly" killing facility this morning!! :)Posted by: carla at May 26, 2010 1:13 PM
"I don't care what a fertilized cell is, is it a child? No, it's a developing child."
Born children are developing children too.
You have been here before under a different moniker. Please pick one and stick with it. Thank you.
Oryxx, good point. My toddler is a "developing child". Can I kill him if I "choose" not to be a mother anymore?Posted by: Sydney M. at May 26, 2010 2:16 PM
I worked ER and I can tell you that no one off the street would be allowed to follow a patient into the hospital, much less touch them or take their picture! I want proof this incident did indeed happen, since as you say neither of us was there.
Had the abortion mill followed the most basic standards of care, EMS would have been called to stabilize this woman, since the mill staff appears to have been clueless, and then notify ER of the woman's arrival so they could be prepared.
The patient's safety and confidentiality would have been protected. Transporting a bleeding patient across the steet in a wheelchair wrapped in a sheet is despicable. Do you have any idea how many patients we nearly lost because someone thought they were faster than the EMS? What if the ER was short staffed and swamped with accident victims and critically ill patients? EMS could at least provide essential care until she could be treated in the hospital.
Fertilized egg? Do pro-aborts even understand biology? Fertilized eggs have heartbeats and arms and legs and heads? I'm a 30 year old fertilized egg, then, I guess.
Is it wrong that Grace's repeated use of "Mary at May" is making me laugh? Well, it is.
Again, another pro-abort who doesn't use science to back up her claims, uses language to dehumanize a little person, is a mass of contradictions (I caught the "restrictions" comment too)....Yeah, it's not long before most people realize pro-aborts have no case, only poor rhetoric.Posted by: MaryLee at May 26, 2010 5:29 PM
Just wanted to add: somewhere within all that Grace said something along the lines of 'why can't antis mind their own business'.
Escorting a woman you've never met before so that she can have her unborn child killed in her womb is not minding your own business. I suppose escorts would argue that, having witnessed the harassment of women outside abortion clinics, they feel compelled to stand up and do something.
Here's the thing - those who are against abortion have perceived the suffering of women, unborn children, and society inflicted by abortion. We are compelled to cease "minding our own business" out of compassion and horror.
The difference between the two positions is not that one camp is getting into someone else's business while the other is protecting something - the difference is over who/what is being protected. Pro-lifers are trying to protect both mother and baby while abortion-supporters are only trying to protect abortion access.Posted by: Laurie at May 26, 2010 5:37 PM
Really, really, really well-stated Laurie.Posted by: MaryLee at May 26, 2010 5:39 PM
if someone hadn't gotten involved in the business of ending slavery, where would we be? Would we still have a segregated south with separate schools and restrooms for "colored people"? Would blacks be serving as police officers, fire fighters, mayors, governors, and senators? If Susan B. Anthony and other women hadn't taken a stand for REAL women's rights (the right to vote specifically) would women be allowed to vote in the 21st century?
Sidewalk counselors want to offer ALTERNATIVES and hope to these women, many whom are scared and feel their ONLY choice is abortion. Some are coerced by the lies like "you can't raise a baby" or "you can't work and raise a baby" "a baby will ruin your life", painting parenthood, specifically motherhood, in a negative light. They paint abortion as being as "safe as having tonsils out".
Posted by: LizFromNebraska
at May 26, 2010 6:00 PM
This incident in Florida proves abortion isn't safe. We had a woman injured by her abortion here in Lincoln a few years ago. She had to have an emergency hysterectomy due to the botched abortion and the loss of blood. So much for SAFE.
Posted by: Mary at May 26, 2010 4:53 PM
It's an important point you make, Mary. Their true colors show when they're trying to cover their tracks when something goes wrong. How does one expect ethical behavior from people who earn their living making a killing?
1994 Abortionist Alicia Ruiz Hanna stuffed the body of 27-year-old mother of 4 (5 counting the aborted sibling) into her trunk when she stopped breathing following an injection.
Carol Everett recounts bundling women into cars to avoid the bad publicity of an ambulance, and who could forget the woman who bled to death because the abortionist had a hot date to get to? Some sutures could have saved her life, but priorities are priorities.
Another abortionist at an Everett clinic perforated a woman's uterus and also severed her urinary tract. Again Everett drove the woman to a hospital instead of calling an ambulance. "We were maiming at least one woman a month, at one point," she recalled.
Pro-woman my foot.Posted by: klynn73 at May 26, 2010 6:14 PM
Thank you Klynn73,
I can't stress enough the importance and good sense of calling EMS. Many times in ER we were swamped and had to request the paramedics/emts to stay with the patient until one of us was free.
I will never forget the morning when a man ran into our doors at 6am screaming that his mother was having a heart attack and had stopped breathing, in the back sear of his car. Thankfully the 3 of us that were on happened to be available after an horrendous nite and a day shift nurse happened to have come in early and was in the nurse's lounge.
We ran out to the car and discovered a woman in full cardiac arrest....and 300 lbs. By the sheer force of bursts of adrenaline and help from her hysterical son we got her on the cart and began CPR. Miraculously we did revive her. Her son said he didn't call the paramedics since he felt he could safely and quickly transport his mother when she was began having mild chest pain.
Never,ever,ever assume you can safely transport someone yourself or that ER staff will be readily available to assist you. A few more minutes and that woman would have been dead.
No offense, but you've been praying for abortion to end since 1973, and it hasn't worked, why do you think that is?
What is the point of this question? Gee, I've been praying for the end of murder, and all other forms of evil, but mankind is...get this... SINFUL. EVIL.
It's called free will. God is, in fact, the author of "choice." Deuteronomy 30:19: "This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live."
Clearly, God wants us to use our choices to affirm LIFE. It is up to us to make moral, godly choices.
If I go out and kill some stranger, is it my fault, or is it God's fault for not stopping me?
And interesting enough, not a single pro-choicer here has addressed the issue that this was a botched "safe and legal" abortion which resulted in serious injury for the woman. Where's their concern for the woman's wellbeing now?Posted by: Rachael C. at May 26, 2010 8:57 PM
Abortion is certainly more safe when done in controlled environments. Make it illegal and you will see plenty more women removed from "clinics" in body bags.Posted by: Jake at May 26, 2010 10:37 PM
The year prior to Roe the illegal abortion death rate was at an all time low and had been steadily declining for years, thanks to advances in sterile technique, antibiotics, and IV and blood transfusion therapy. Most illegal abortions were done in doctor's offices by medically trained personnel. My cousin's wife routinely went to her OB's office for "menstrual extraction". "Back alley" abortion was in reference to women going to the doctor's office after hours and entering from the alley entrance so as not to be seen and recognized. Before the modern day pregnancy tests and ultrasound, abortions were often done in hospitals under false pretenses, i.e. "vaginal bleeding" or "health".
It is likely that the very illegality of the procedure is what made it safer. Unlike abortion clinics these days, doctors knew mistakes or "body bags" meant a long prison sentence and were thus very selective and cautious.
The abortion movement knew this but in their efforts to legalize abortion, deliberatlely deceived the American public, with help from their friends in the media.
Transporting a bleeding patient across the steet in a wheelchair wrapped in a sheet is despicable.
Posted by: Mary at May 26, 2010 4:53 PM
Thank you, Mary! If she'd been taken to any of the ERs in my area, the clinic staff would NOT have had access to the entrance reserved for medics. This patient would have been rolled in the public triage entrance, presumably dressed in a gown, wrapped in a sheet, bleeding.
If the clinic staff who transported were wearing ID identifying them as staff of the clinic across the street, they telegraphed to every person who can see the patient as she's being rolled in what she is likely being brought in for. But hey, why question the abortion providers about their role in diminishing patient privacy when antis can be blamed instead?Posted by: Fed Up at May 27, 2010 12:21 AM
"Make it illegal and you will see plenty more women removed from "clinics" in body bags."
Make murder and rape legal and you'll see more of that too.
Abortion is certainly more safe when done in controlled environments. Make it illegal and you will see plenty more women removed from "clinics" in body bags.
Posted by: Jake at May 26, 2010 10:37 PM
Abortion kills every time. Just because the child doesn't come out in a body bag doesn't mean there wasn't a death.
Jake, don't ignore the reality so many women acknowledge.Posted by: Chris Arsenault at May 27, 2010 7:13 AM
I have been active in my parishes Respect Life ministry for around 3 years. We pray outside the Planned Parenthood Abortion Clinic in Warminster, PA. There have been plenty of occasions at this clinic when the women have to be rushed by ambulance to a "real" hospital (we believe Abington Hospital) to be treated by "real" doctors for botched abortions. I have personally witnessed this happen. It does not surprise me that this happens on a regular basis at other abortion clinics through out the country.
(On the Pro-LifeTube website, there is an entire section dedicated to 911 calls)
A year ago, we were able to get pictures of a woman being rushed to the hospital after a botched abortion. I posted the pictures on You Tube and Pro-Life Tube:
Rachel C made a comment earlier which I agree with 100% – “And interesting enough, not a single pro-choicer here has addressed the issue that this was a botched "safe and legal" abortion which resulted in serious injury for the woman. Where's their concern for the woman's wellbeing now?”
To add to Rachel C’s comment. Most abortion clinics are not staffed or equipped to handle medical emergencies from botched abortions – this shows the level of concern that they have for the woman’s health and well being. In fact, Planned Parenthood gets almost all of its revenue from abortions. In 2007, Planned Parenthood performed 305,310 abortions, and made 4912 aboption referrals. 95% of their “Pregnacy Services” was abortion:
My reasons for posting these pictures, is to show that although abortion may be legal, it is not safe.
If a child isn't killed, it's not an abortion.Posted by: carla at May 27, 2010 8:38 AM
Umm..Carla, I think it's stil considered abortion.
An abortion-attempt may not end up with the death of the unborn (like Gianna Jessen) but it was still an abortion.
God Bless.Posted by: RSD at May 27, 2010 9:19 AM
What I meant was the intent of an abortion is to kill the child. A "successful" abortion kills the child. A "botched" abortion is when that baby survives the attempt.Posted by: carla at May 27, 2010 9:29 AM
Good morning Fed Up 12:21am
An excellent point. Indeed, the rescue squads have their own entrance and direct admission to the ER. This woman and her situation would have been broadcasted to everyone walking on the street and in the triage area. Not to mention that this woman may have had a blood pressure that barely registers.
They have little room to cry about this woman's confidentiality being violated.
Also, paramedics radioed us concerning patients they were bringing in, thus we were prepared to immediately treat the pt. If our staff was extremely busy, paramedics could stay with the patient and monitor their condition, another important safety factor.
The lack of patient safety, standard of care, and protection of privacy by the abortion mill staff is appalling.Posted by: Mary at May 27, 2010 9:49 AM
This sickens me. They are only concerned that the right to kill is protected, not that women are injured. Do abortion clinics have ANY protocol for this? Well besides,
1. Get wheelchair.
2. Get sheet.
3. Cover bleeding woman.
4. Put up black tarp of secrecy.
4. Race her across the street so professionals
can save her life.
The solution to "safer" killing of unborn children is not to make abortions safer, but to stop killing unborn children.
I can't remember who said that but I love it!
Any prochoicers care to share just how outraged and appalled you are?
Posted by: carla
at May 27, 2010 11:26 AM
Hi Carla and FedUp,
Of course a woman wrapped in a bloody sheet and pushed in a wheelchair wouldn't attract an iota of attention. Happens all the time.
Good grief this still boggles my mind.
Also, just how did the patient's medical records get on the internet? If I check out admission details on a patient who's name I recognize, I face job termination and well I should. The hospital knows everyone who visits a patient record or info site and you better have a legitimate reason. So how pray tell did this woman's records get out of the mill? I wonder if like Hodari, they just toss them in the dumpster.Posted by: Mary at May 27, 2010 12:56 PM
I am praying these women find legal counsel and SUE, SUE, SUE!!!!Posted by: carla at May 27, 2010 1:29 PM