First fallout: Pro-life group strips Stupak of "Defender of Life" award

Thumbnail image for susan b anthony fund.pngUPDATE, 11:50p: Stupak doesn't need no stinkin' award. From CNN:

Rep. Stupak spoke with CNN Sunday night about the decision of the Susan B. Anthony List. "I didn't seek the award," Stupak told CNN, "I stood on my principle. I don't need an award."

Favor can sure change on a dime. From pro-life hero 1 day to "baby killer" the next. So sad. Stupak blew such an amazing historical opportunity to be an abortion game changer....

[HT: LifeNews.com]

7:43p: Press release just received:

Stupak Stripped of "Defender of Life" Award

Susan B. Anthony List Candidate Fund pledges to drive out
pro-life betrayers in November

In response to Rep. Bart Stupak's announcement that he and other self-labeled "pro-life" Democrats will vote in favor of Healthcare reform legislation with the addition of an Executive Order from the White House to address concerns about abortion funding, Susan B. Anthony List Candidate Fund President Marjorie Dannenfelser offered the following statement.

campaign for life gala.JPG"This Wednesday night is our 3rd annual Campaign for Life Gala, where we were planning to honor Congressman Stupak for his efforts to keep abortion-funding out of health care reform. We will no longer be doing so. By accepting this deal from the most pro-abortion President in American history, Stupak has not only failed to stand strong for unborn children, but also for his constituents and pro-life voters across the country."

"Let me be clear: any representative, including Rep. Stupak, who votes for this healthcare bill can no longer call themselves 'pro-life.' The SBA List Candidate Fund will not endorse, or support in any capacity, any Member of Congress who votes for this bill in any future election.

"Now through Election Day 2010, these representatives will learn that votes have consequences. The SBA List Candidate Fund will work tirelessly to help defeat Members who support this legislation and make sure their constituents know exactly how they voted. We will actively seek out true pro-life candidates to oppose Members who vote 'yes' on this bill, whether it be in general or primary elections. For these Members, it will be a quick downhill slide to defeat in November."

"The executive order on abortion funding does absolutely nothing to fix the problems presented by the health care reform bill that the House will vote on this evening. The very idea should offend all pro-life Members of Congress. An executive order can be rescinded at any time at the President's whim, and the courts could and have a history of trumping executive orders. Most importantly, pro-abortion Representatives have admitted the executive order is meaningless."

Last night, Rep. DeGette told The Huffington Post, "If there was an executive order saying they weren't going to use federal funds in the bill to pay for abortions that would be fine with me."

Today, Rep. Wasserman Schultz admitted to Fox News' Megyn Kelly that "an executive order cannot change the law."

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops pointed out today that "only a change in the law enacted by Congress, not an executive order, can begin to address this very serious problem in the legislation."


Comments:

Stupak never saw that coming, did he?

He had my admiration until about 4 o' clock this afternoon.

November is going to be sweet, sweet, sweet.

(yes, I broke my lenten promise for this important announcement.)

Posted by: carder at March 21, 2010 8:06 PM


Don't you people understand that providing affordable health insurance to all Americans will save lives? ARe you so hung up on "saving" the unborn that you forget about the tens of thousands of people who die each year because of lack of health insurance? Do you not care that the health insurance companies are lining their pockets on the premiums of their customers only to deny coverage for treatments just because they know that a certain percentage of their customers won't question it?

You so-called "pro-life" people are just a bunch of hypocrites.

Posted by: flan at March 21, 2010 8:06 PM


flan, you're one of the "useful idiots" Lenin referred to. NO ONE dies because they don't have health insurance -- NO ONE.

And to remind you of a simple fact -- that "affordable health insurance" is being provided by people like me, as my government confiscates my assets to pay for others. The money doesn't grow on trees; it has to be taken, forcibly, from me. So, for whom, exactly, is this affordable?

Posted by: branch155 at March 21, 2010 8:11 PM


@flan: In the US, it's estimated that 44,000 people die every year due to insufficient insurance. That's a lot, and that's bad.

At the lowest estimate of the current rate (3000 per day), 44,000 unborn children are killed every fifteen days due to abortions. So, literally twenty-six times as many human deaths per year are due to abortion when compared with the ones that are due to insufficient insurance.

You find me another human rights violation that kills 3000 people a day in the US, and 5000 of them an hour around the world, and then I'll worry about fighting that one first. And not a second sooner.

Posted by: Keli Hu at March 21, 2010 8:18 PM


In response to flan-the number of people 'saved' by this bill will pale in comparison to the number of people who will be killed by this bill due to rationing, waiting for treatment, and not having enough available competent medical personnel to handle everyone.

Posted by: pat at March 21, 2010 8:20 PM


carder: sundays are considered a "mini Easter" so you're okay. ;)

Affordable health care? HAHAHAHA......it has to be paid for by someone! As branch pointed out, money doesn't grow on trees and this will have consequences. Not for me, but for my nieces and nephews and their future children. Maybe even my own children if I were to ever get married and have children/adopt children.

There is no such thing as a free lunch and nothing in life is EVER free!

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 8:20 PM


Posted by: flan at March 21, 2010 8:06 PM
-------

No - you don't have to call us hypocrites - we call ourselves that - we acknowledge we are sinners. We've pulled the logs out, and are no longer blind and self-deceiving.

Posted by: Chris Arsenault Author Profile Page at March 21, 2010 8:21 PM


Bart "go-ahead-and-kill-the-babies-conceived-in-rape" Stupak might have gotten a pro-life award?

Twisted.

Why do people hate those children so much?

Posted by: Cranky Catholic at March 21, 2010 8:33 PM


cranky catholic: also any woman can get any doctor to sign a piece of paper saying that she needs an abortion because of "health"

look for American women's health to decline dramatically in the coming months

along with a lot of dead babies.....

Posted by: angel at March 21, 2010 8:38 PM


A most disappointing day. We all need to campaign like heck now and support all the opposition to those idiots in Congress that voted this in.

Posted by: Eileen at March 21, 2010 8:53 PM


Don't you people understand that providing affordable health insurance to all Americans will save lives? ARe you so hung up on "saving" the unborn that you forget about the tens of thousands of people who die each year because of lack of health insurance?>>

10,000

But then prochoicers were never good at math.

Posted by: Richard L. Kent, Esq. at March 21, 2010 8:54 PM


For some reason the key line in my post above did not come out clearly. It should have read:

10,000 (is less than) 1,500,000.

Posted by: Richard L. Kent, Esq. at March 21, 2010 8:58 PM


But LizfromNebraska...didn't you KNOW? It won't cost us a DIME cause they'll just print more money! DUH....they'll just print and print and print and then the inflation fairy will pass a bill to make THAT go away...

I just don't know why you silly people are so worried over this bill! This is a BRAND NEW idea that has NEVER been tried before (or FAILED for that matter!) We're DIFFERENT from Europe and Canada cause we're the USA and we're special. Socialism will be different for us...;-)

Posted by: Sydney M. at March 21, 2010 8:59 PM


Stupak lied all along. This video just surfaced:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URr68joWr1E&feature=player_embedded

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 21, 2010 9:04 PM


" ARe you so hung up on "saving" the unborn..."

Any rational clear thinking person with even a glimmer of sound morality is "hung up" on saving the unborn. Why aren't you?

What's the body count up to now 50 million dead babies? Yeah, so silly of us to be "hung up" on such a small issue.

Murdering unborn children is not health care.

Posted by: psalm at March 21, 2010 9:07 PM


How sick are some pro-choicers that they sign onto a pro-life site tonight to throw arrows? Disgusting as the Congress is how sick they are.

Posted by: Eileen at March 21, 2010 9:11 PM


Today is a wonderful day. Despite your best efforts to prevent millions of Americans from having access to affordable healthcare, and your best efforts to deny women the right to make their own reproductive health choices, healthcare reform in America is finally a reality after so long. In 50 years, we'll look back on what happened today as being as important as the Civil Rights Act.

Posted by: YOU LOST! at March 21, 2010 9:21 PM


Hey Josephine,

If you oppose rape then don't commit the act. Just stay out of the lives of men who choose to do so.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 9:27 PM


God is the AUTHOR OF LIFE and EVERY CHILD, born and UNBORN, disabled or not disabled, boy or girl, black, white, asian or hispanic, and no MATTER the circumstances of his/her conception, is HIS gift. And those who have abortions selfishly, throw those gifts away like grandma's Christmas fruitcake.

And then there are the women who struggle for YEARS to become pregnant, who would take one of those babies and love them, but they are denied that chance because "Jen" doesn't want to lose her figure!

And yes, I think I remember someone saying they read a comment or this was heard at an abortion clinic for the reason for the abortion!

Government run health care will cost taxpayers $$$$$$$ and we will still be paying for it long after we are all dead, because the cost will be passed on to our children and grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Nothing in life is EVER free.

And abortion is NOT, repeat, NOT HEALTH CARE!

Authentic Christians value all life, BORN and UNBORN!!

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 9:31 PM


You Lost,

Obviously, your mind. The civil rights act? You obviously have no clue what you're talking about and you denegrate the battle and the suffering endured by black Americans in making the comparison.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 9:31 PM


Posted by: Josephine at March 21, 2010 9:24 PM
----

Your arguments are weak. Go ahead and vomit. hehe

Posted by: Chris Arsenault Author Profile Page at March 21, 2010 9:32 PM


Despite your best efforts to prevent millions of Americans from having access to affordable healthcare .....

Depends on your definition of affordable, doesn't it? FireDogLake reports that a family of 4 making $66,370 will be compelled to shell out $8,628 per year in insurance premiums. FDL estimates that after basic necessities, the family will have $8,307 in discretionary income for credit card and other debt, child care and education expenses, clothing, etc. Under Obamacare, they have to spend a whopping $5,882 to meet their deductible, leaving them only $2425 in discretionary income per year.

This family won't have the option to get catastrophic coverage and pay out of pocket for routine medical care. They'll lose their decision-making authority to determine what's in their family's best financial interest. A civil rights victory indeed.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 21, 2010 9:36 PM


Come on Josephine,

I'm not crying at all. I enjoy watching this quagmire Obama is sinking into. I suspect I've been on this planet longer than you my dear and life has taught me one thing, those who laugh last laugh best. I've seen "victory" turn into a curse more than once. Be very careful what you wish for, when the gods want to punish man they answer their prayers.

Concerning the rape question, I just assumed that if you oppose imposing morality, then this applies across the board, does it not?

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 9:37 PM


Why do these trolls always have to bring the priest scandal into these threads? Don't you think that practicing Catholics are hurt by this hateful speech? Yes, some priests made mistakes! But NOT all priests are like that! Some are luke warm when it comes to life issues, some are pro life heroes like Father Frank Pavone or the late Father Paul Marx.

Stupak will find he made a mistake if he doesn't get reelected. He'll probably brush it aside, but he can't really say he's pro life anymore.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 9:37 PM


PEOPLE- Do not indulge the demons by acknowledging them, let alone addressing them. I have made that mistake before.

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 21, 2010 9:37 PM


I was just learning about the Civil Rights Act last week, Mary. My professor compared and contrasted the struggle African-Americans made to win their civil rights with the struggle and sacrifice that we as women have made to get and keep our reproductive rights. It sickens me that there are so many women who would deny their fellow women our most important civil right.

Posted by: YOU LOST! at March 21, 2010 9:38 PM


you forget that something like one out of every two abortions that women have, a future woman has lost THEIR RIGHTS because at least 50% of abortions result in the death of BABY GIRLS!

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 9:42 PM


You Lost,

You HEARD about the civil rights struggle? I figured as much. Child, I lived it and your professor is full of crap.
The two struggles do not compare and your professor denegrates and trivializes black people and their struggle by comparing the two.
Come back here when you really have some first hand knowledge of what you are talking about.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 9:44 PM



Hey ladies,

What do you think of sex selection abortions that deliberately target females?

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 9:47 PM


Once again, I implore you all to stop addressing the demons.

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 21, 2010 9:48 PM


Morgan: does the USA not have laws against murder? then why do those who kill people go to jail? How about laws regarding rape? Thou Shall not Kill......that's one of God's laws that the USA might actually have....except some the USA doesn't consider unborn children to be worthy of protection.


Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 9:48 PM


LizFromNebraska, they bring it up because you hardly hear anyone who is Catholic (except the victims) challenge the Church for their coverups, yet many Catholics seem to involve themselves in other people's lives. Perhaps they should concentrate on protecting children who are in harm's way within the Church first.

Posted by: Lance at March 21, 2010 9:49 PM


Jacqueline,

Sorry, but I'm just having too much fun.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 9:50 PM


Harry, Josephine, Peter and Morgan all have the same IP address.

Your comments have all been deleted unless you can come up with one moniker and maybe try to engage in a discussion.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 21, 2010 9:51 PM


Ah, well. It's your funeral.

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 21, 2010 9:52 PM


LizFromNebraska, all countries have laws against murder. I'm referring to your belief that God is the author of life. Believe that if you want. But don't expect all people to believe that.

Posted by: Morgan at March 21, 2010 9:52 PM


so you must be one of those who believe life just appeared one day by coincidence? Nothing happens by coincidence.


He is the AUTHOR OF LIFE. Life just doesn't appear by accident.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 9:56 PM


Are you going with the name Morgan then?

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 21, 2010 9:56 PM


You Lost,

Speaking of the civil rights struggle, did your professor tell you the KKK was founded as the terrorist arm of the Democrat Party or that segregation was instituted by Democrats?

Just curious.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 10:00 PM


Mary I doubt you'll get an answer....

*hands popcorn and a fruity beverage*

*pops in a movie*


This should be interesting.......

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 10:01 PM


yes, Mary, and now those KKK Democrat types are with the GOP.

Posted by: Morgan at March 21, 2010 10:04 PM


Morgan,

Name them please. Oh BTW, Senator Robert Byrd, Democrat and former klansman.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 10:06 PM


You are accusing many Republicans of being racist. You have NO proof to back it up and that's a big accusation, Morgan. I'm neither a republican nor a democrat, I am registered as unaffiliated (You could say I am Independent). I want all unborn children to have a chance to be loved, but 50 MILLION have lost their lives since 1973. Pro abortionists claim that they want abortion to be "safe, legal and RARE" but I don't see how 1 MILLION abortions a year is RARE.

The government has failed when it comes to social security and medicare. I don't see this health care monster bill helping ANYONE.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 10:09 PM


I am glad to see that there are newsworthy immediate consequences for his betrayal!

Posted by: Merril Lane at March 21, 2010 10:09 PM


Perhaps they should concentrate on protecting children who are in harm's way within the Church first.

Posted by: Lance at March 21, 2010 9:49 PM

Umm, why can't prolifers support protecting the born and the unborn simultaneously? I understand you're trying to insinuate the Catholic Church is evil or hypocritical--have you ever heard of dirty cops? Sexually abusive school teachers? Do you paint the entire police force or all teachers with the same broad brush?

None of this has anything to do with the fact that abortion ends the life of a human being.

Posted by: klynn73 at March 21, 2010 10:13 PM


Mary, I said KKK types, not members. They comprise much of the Republican Party.

Posted by: Morgan at March 21, 2010 10:14 PM


Morgan also takes a college-level course in stereotyping and false accusations.

Posted by: xalisae at March 21, 2010 10:17 PM


Morgan...if you actually want to learn something from someone who has lived it instead of allowing yourself to be indoctrinated then I suggest you read "The Big Black Lie" by Kevin Jackson. He is a black man who details how it is actually the DEMOCRATS who are racists and fought civil rights.

Posted by: Sydney M. at March 21, 2010 10:19 PM


Morgan,

And I asked you to name the individuals. Certainly if they are out there you should be able to point them out.

What do you think of an ex klansman in the US Senate?

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 10:22 PM


Sydney, yes, the Democrats back then did. But, when Reagan came along, many went over to the GOP and stayed. Mary, I could ask you what you think of a lot of sinners who repented. Funny you hold it against Byrd and bring it up. What do you think about Norma McCorvey, a drunk and dysfunctional woman who switched sides because she wasn't getting attention from the prochoice side? Same thing as Byrd.

Posted by: morgan at March 21, 2010 10:26 PM


I see you also minored in schoolyard insults. "No, U!"...highly effective. 9_9

Posted by: xalisae at March 21, 2010 10:32 PM


Civil Rights equated to the right to pay someone to violate us to dismember our children within us. Nothing quite as liberating as that, is there? Let me introduce you to Dr. Alveda King, niece of the Rev Dr MLK, Jr. as she speaks on civil rights and abortion.

Posted by: klynn73 at March 21, 2010 10:38 PM


Morgan,

Please name them! You folks always claim KKK members went to the GOP so name the individuals!

Byrd repented. You obviously didn't hear about his "white n-----" slip on national TV. Hey even the most repentent of klansman and filibusterer of civil and voting rights legislation can have a slip up now and then.

Norma McCorvey? Well my friend what exactly do you think of pro abortion people exploiting this woman's personal failings for their own gain and then dumping her when she wanted a little recognition and appreciation for her contribution to their cause? Do you know if her Roe v Wade lawyers knew or cared that she was lying or did it just not matter to them??

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 10:39 PM


Hi, Xalisae, how are you? :)

Posted by: Vannah at March 21, 2010 10:41 PM


Thanks for nothing Stupak!!!!! Thanks for the ultimate betrayal. I guess Barry made you drink the koolaid.

Posted by: Robyn at March 21, 2010 10:42 PM


Here's the facebook page for Stupak's opponent in Michigan.

I predict 10,000 fans by tomorrow morning.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=287806148754

Posted by: carder at March 21, 2010 10:47 PM


Mary, Byrd "sinned" again. Even Jimmy Swaggart told his flock "I have sinned" and then got caught with another prostitute. And, by the way, even McCorvey's attorney Sara Weddington stated they sought out a plaintiff for the case. But, it was McCorvey who lied about being raped, right?

Posted by: Morgan at March 21, 2010 11:01 PM


He's already there, Carder!! I joined 2,000 proud Americans ago!! :)

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 21, 2010 11:01 PM


Meet another opponent, Mr. Stupak.

Behold, Linda Goldthorpe.

http://www.lindaforcongress.com/

Posted by: carder at March 21, 2010 11:04 PM


Morgan,

I have no issue with Byrd or Swaggert either for that matter. You're the one who brought up that klan "types" are with the GOP. OK, so name them.
Heck, I could put my money where my mouth was, let's see you do the same.

It was McCorvey who lied about the rape but the question is did her attorneys know? Certainly they could have had investigators look into McCorvey's past and her mental instablity and substance abuse would certainly raise some red flags, don't you think? But hey, it was a great story so why spoil it with the fact she was actually pregnant as the result of her affair with a married man? That wouldn't generate a whole lot of sympathy now would it?

The point is they were only too ready and willing to exploit this woman of very questionable mental stability stable for their own purposes.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 11:09 PM


Good grief. Boyfriend is already at 10,230 fans!

20,000, can I hear 20,000?

Posted by: carder at March 21, 2010 11:12 PM


Linda has a facebook page, too

http://www.facebook.com/LindaForCongress

We need more pro life WOMEN in congress, so if I were from Michigan, I'd definitely vote for her.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 11:21 PM


I'm so ticked at Stupak, I feel like throwing a shoe at him. In fact, I think there ought to be a campaign to send his congressional office thousands of pairs of "flip-flops" with images of unborn children stuck to the heel. He got his bluff called. What a jerk.

Posted by: Dave at March 21, 2010 11:40 PM


I've got a better idea: Use the Red Envelope project for Stupak. Tell him each envelope represents a child that was denied the right to life due to his betrayal.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 11:44 PM


RedState is suggesting silver coins, just like Judas' payoff.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 22, 2010 12:22 AM


Yeah, but those coins cost money.

Envelopes are much cheaper. Like Stupak's vote.

Posted by: carder at March 22, 2010 12:45 AM


you fools--throw some more meaningless awards around...what do you get in return?????

Posted by: george morris at March 22, 2010 11:38 AM


In the red envelopes: Include a little round piece of aluminum foil with the words "Judas Silver" written on it.

Posted by: Tom R at March 22, 2010 11:39 AM


gee you all are really smart---i hear barney frank is available for your neat awards

Posted by: g moris at March 22, 2010 11:42 AM


Stupak: "I stood on my principle." Which one and when? Is the man delusional?

Posted by: ROB at March 22, 2010 12:44 PM


Hero to goat in about 5 mins.

Stupak gave up his vote for NOTHING! The executive order was proof that taxpayer money is going to be used for elective abortions. Also, the executive order does not do anything to the law that has been passed. Essentially, it means nothing and Stupak fell for it.

Posted by: Tie at March 22, 2010 2:07 PM


Bart Stupak ... a modern day Neville Chamberlain.

Posted by: Elisabeth at March 22, 2010 7:56 PM


Great catch, Elisabeth. He made the mistake of trusting a sociopath, put faith in a paper that guaranteed nothing and saw millions die as a result.

Posted by: klynn73 at March 22, 2010 10:22 PM


Haha thats just too funny dude. Seriously.

Lou
www.mask-your-ip.se.tc

Posted by: Lou Woods at March 22, 2010 10:59 PM


A zygote is not human life. I am sorry that your religion has forced you to treat a few cells as conscious life.

Stupak has shown us all that despite a vocal minority screaming bloody murder that our elected representatives can still act in the best interest of the majority. You can all scream until November but I think you'll be disappointed by the results.

Posted by: AnonCoward at March 22, 2010 11:33 PM


While the notion that a collection of just a couple cells has the exact same set of rights as an adult human being and that efforts towards the preservation of its safety should be considered to the same extent or more than that of its adult mother is absolutely absurd, the passing of this legislation has nothing to do with such argument. The foundation of this healthcare bill is built upon providing affordable health insurance for all americans and minimizing healthcare costs. To that respect, the positive effects of this bill will be seen immediately. By no means is the signing of this bill the equivalent to the signing of thousands of zygotes death certificates. Abortion clinics are not all of a sudden receiving federal funding. To reduce the unbelievable efforts that congress poured into this BIPARTISAN bill to a prochoice/prolife debate, with the goal of undermining any democratic success, is indicative of everything that is wrong with politics and partisanship today. If you could argue that you would have no problem getting dropped from your insurance plan because your kid was just diagnosed with cancer, then by all means state your case. Otherwise, please let's move on.

Posted by: RickDawk at March 23, 2010 1:21 AM


let's move on
Posted by: RickDawk at March 23, 2010 1:21 AM

Yes, let's do! On to the next election. On to repeal efforts. On to state nullifaction initiatives. On to congressional hearings about the corruption behind the bill. Onward!

Posted by: Fed Up at March 23, 2010 2:36 AM


What atraitor.He has no gumption to stand up to Obama.Getting an executive order is nothing,just jusification of his cowardness.

Posted by: Richard NIGRO at March 23, 2010 7:36 AM


this website is so dark. so many people with dark thoughts who call themselves Christians. you actually talk about human lives in terms of math, if more humans die due to lack of health care or abortion. and you actually compare the numbers just to prove your point! you will sooooo burn in hell.

Posted by: omg at March 23, 2010 7:59 AM


Hi omg.

"...and you actually compare the numbers just to prove your point! you will sooooo burn in hell. "

Thanks!

Posted by: Bobby Bambino Author Profile Page at March 23, 2010 8:30 AM


Anoncoward wrote "A zygote is not human life. I am sorry that your religion has forced you to treat a few cells as conscious life."

A Zygote is life. That is biological fact. If not human, what type of life is it? Zebra life? Camel life? spider life? NO. Obviously it is human life.

Yes, we all started out our lives as just a few cells. And at that point, you are right that we were not conscious. But since when is being conscious a prerequisite for personhood? Did you know you lose consciousness every night? I guess that would be the perfect time for someone to sneak into your home and kill you and they could not be punished, for according to you, at the point you lose consciousness, you lose your humanity and personhood.

That is the dumbest argument for abortion I have ever heard.

Posted by: Sydney M. at March 23, 2010 9:09 AM


seems to me a few people here failed biology and seem to believe a magical fairy cast a spell on their mother's belly to make it big before another magic fairy helped the "collection of cells" turn into a baby at birth.

I'd say get an embryology textbook, followed by one that shows fetal development. This is SCIENCE that proves it. I'm not using religion here.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 23, 2010 10:50 AM


This web-site shows how some people will tie their positions too closely to a political title (Republicans) at the expense of recognizing legitimate efforts.
The article actually complaining about making a deal with "the most pro-abortion President in American history" ?
Come on guys. Leave your partisan anger at the door and recognize a greater good.
The lives saved and helped through the extension of healthcare, in conjunction with the agreed protections against abortion.

You don't like the fact that "Obama"'s name is associated with it?
That's patheticly short-sighted.

Posted by: foundit66 at March 23, 2010 6:29 PM


I am truly astounded by the lack of knowledge of biology.

I do appreciate that we are now talking about zygotes rather than "fertilized eggs." It's an improvement.

But to my knowledge, there's no way to kill a zygote in his or her natural environment. One could probably smash or dismantle it somehow if that zygote were in a petri dish or somesuch. But in the fallopian tube it is virtually impossible that anything could kill him or her. After only a few hours--don't remember how long, but less than 2 days--the zygote begins to divide. And once the developing human being has two cells, he or she is not a zygote. The human entity in question is an embryo, more specifically a morula (I think). By the time implantation is about to occur, he or she is considered a blastocyst. That is the earliest stage at which any drug or chemical would affect him or her. Hormonal contraceptives (such as the pill, the patch, the shot, or the morning-after pill) or IUDs can then prevent that growing human being from implanting, causing his or her death. RU486 can also be effective at this point. Before that science cannot even detect pregnancy. The developing child remains an embryo from that first cell division until six or eight weeks, when all of his or her parts are completely formed and a surgical abortion becomes possible (cutting, tearing, and/or sucking him or her with machines and surgical instruments).

So no one is killing zygotes, except perhaps in work with IVF or cloning. After implantation (which is pretty much entirely what you are thinking about) you are killing embryos, until 6 or 8 weeks, at which point you are killing fetuses.

Not that using the dehumanizing medical terminology makes it okay. But I don't want you to give stupid people the idea that what is being killed is an egg. Feel free to look stupid in front of smart people, though.

Posted by: ycw at March 25, 2010 12:31 PM


I am truly astounded by the lack of knowledge of biology.

I do appreciate that we are now talking about zygotes rather than "fertilized eggs." It's an improvement.

But to my knowledge, there's no way to kill a zygote in his or her natural environment. One could probably smash or dismantle it somehow if that zygote were in a petri dish or somesuch. But in the fallopian tube it is virtually impossible that anything could kill him or her. After only a few hours--don't remember how long, but less than 2 days--the zygote begins to divide. And once the developing human being has two cells, he or she is not a zygote. The human entity in question is an embryo, more specifically a morula (I think). By the time implantation is about to occur, he or she is considered a blastocyst. That is the earliest stage at which any drug or chemical would affect him or her. Hormonal contraceptives (such as the pill, the patch, the shot, or the morning-after pill) or IUDs can then prevent that growing human being from implanting, causing his or her death. RU486 can also be effective at this point. Before that science cannot even detect pregnancy. The developing child remains an embryo from that first cell division until six or eight weeks, when all of his or her parts are completely formed and a surgical abortion becomes possible (cutting, tearing, and/or sucking him or her with machines and surgical instruments).

So no one is killing zygotes, except perhaps in work with IVF or cloning. After implantation (which is pretty much entirely what you are thinking about) you are killing embryos, until 6 or 8 weeks, at which point you are killing fetuses.

Not that using the dehumanizing medical terminology makes it okay. But I don't want you to give stupid people the idea that what is being killed is an egg. Feel free to look stupid in front of smart people, though.

Posted by: ycw at March 26, 2010 10:39 AM



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