Clinton Defends Byrd's KKK Ties: "He Was Trying To Get Elected"

www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/07/02/clinton_defends_byrds_kkk_ties_he_was_trying_to_get_elected.html

At a memorial today for the deceased U. S. Senator from West Virginia, Robert K(KK) Byrd, former philanderer in chief, Billy Boy Clinton shook his bony finger at the camera and attempted to excuse Byrd's former membership in the KKK as merely a means to win an election.

But Robert K.KK Byrd was not just an entry level member in the Klan. He was an officer who rose to the rank of Grand Cyclops.

I understand Byrd will be afforded full Klan honors, with his cloak and hood prominently on display and regaled with a 21 nooose salute. The closing music will be one of Byrd's favorite songs, 'White Christmas.

Byrd's memorial service was reminiscent of the late Senator Paul Wellstones which had morphed into a full blown political pep rally.

Contrast this with the comments made by Trent Lott on the occasion of U.S. Senator Strom Thurmonds 90th birthday, lamented it was too bad Strom was not elected president instead of a democRAT.

The queens of political correctness along with the usual cast of racing baiting poverty pimps feined outrage and demanded Lott's resignation as majority leader.

Still waiting for comment from these paragons of consistency and virtue condemnnig Byrd's former Klan affiliations.

The 4 Survivors needed to do singular interruptions - one would be escorted out and then after everything settles and taping get going again - have another interrupt again.

This completely unnerves the production team because after 3 interruptions, they won't know how many are left. Taping is serious money.

It good to see the Survivors achieve a concession from Jimmy Kimmel's company.

Ryan serious needs to consider filing battery charges against the lighting company. That lamp is capable of doing more than just cooking him. His attorney needs to get in touch with Mole-Richardson - the manufacturer, as well as the local union. (The backstory comments have the link.)

Robert K.KK Byrd was an Exalted Cyclops and a Kleagle. A Kleagle was a recruiter. Robert Byrd formed a KKK chapter. He didn't just go to a couple of meetings. A Kleagle was a recruiter, and he was a recruiter for the KKK for years. He formed his chapter in 1943. He was still writing about the "vital need" for the Klan in 1946.
Senator Byrd was so "repentant" he opposed every civil rights movement. Senator Byrd filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1965. He voted against both Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas. He voted agains the confirmation of Condoleeza Rice.

It wasn't until the death of his son in a car accident in the early 1980s that Robert Byrd said he had to rethink his feelings about black people. He said -- in the 1980s -- that it "finally occurred to [him] that they might love their children, too." That's the Robert Byrd that Clinton said had a "fleeting association" with the KKK.

Byrd filibustered the Civil Rights Act 1965, and he was a Democrat the whole time. That's absolutely correct, he was a Democrat the whole time -- and he was very close friends with a fellow segregationist, J. William Fulbright, Arkansas senator, a person Bill Clinton has said is his mentor.

Robert Byrd wrote to segregationist Mississippi Senator Theodore Bilbo, 1944, "I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side. Rather, I should die a thousand times, see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds." Robert Byrd, 1944. He was a recruiter in the Klan. He did not have a "fleeting association."
In 1946 or 1947 Robert Byrd wrote a letter to a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan stating, quote: "The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia and in every state in the nation."

Now, what does any of that have to do with getting elected, as Bill Clinton said?

If this company was a company Jimmy Kimmel only hired for that day, then why didn't he issue and apology to the Survivors and explain that? The point is this company worked for him and was representing him and his brand and they tried to harm a kid. Jimmy Kimmel needed to take responsibility not wait until he was confronted. What a wuss.

Thank you ken,

I read that too. Black people just "might" love their children? What an epiphany. What if his son hadn't died? Would Byrd have gone to his grave convinced that black people didn't love their children?

Gag me. A "brush" with the klan. Imagine if any Republican senator had had such a "brush" with the klan. Damn, if only Byrd had been a Republican. Well, one did have to be a Democrat to be a klansman so that wasn't likely.

You know Ken I always hear the argument that its the racist Democrats of the old south that are the Republicans today. Really? Name them. "Crickets".

Someone enlighten me as to why black Americans continue to give their blind loyalty to the Democrats.

Ken

Just imagine the sanctamonious chest pounding we would have been subjected to if Byrd had been a Republican. How Republicans would be attacked for eulogizing him. What do you want to bet Obama and Clinton probaby would boycott the funeral out of indignation for such a racist past?

So pro-life activists turn Code Pink.

Lovely.

Mary,

What is the female journalists name who said she would hit her knees for Bill Clinton because he had kept abortion accessible?

Posted by: Cranky Catholic at July 3, 2010 8:07 AM

"So pro-life activists turn Code Pink.

Lovely."

-----------------------------------------------------

Even sheep and doves can get aggressive if you mess with them long enough.

I am not a Jimmy Kimmel fan.

When I have watched the show I have not detected an aggressively hostile attitude toward any particular political or social group.

Mr. Kimmel will now be aware of what happened with the contract lighting crew. Perhaps members of that crew will lose some work because of their behabvior.

This is bullying! "Give us what we want or we will harass you" is bullying. Jimmy Kimmel himself did nothing to these kids and nor did Dakota Fanning. There are adult, APPROPRIATE channels to address infringement of free speech rights and the bullying of being assaulted by hot lights- but it seems these kids are more about having fun with juvenile disruptions than realizing how counterproductive this is for the pro-life movement. And I think we attract the immature and attention-whore types because we do not want to cause disunity by criticizing each other. Are we surprised then when the PR of the movement are people getting arrested for the thrill of it or otherwise acting like a bored teenager?

Ken,

I know who you are referring to but I can't recall her name. I understand she was a friend of Hillary's. Yeah, just the thing I would publicly say about my friend's husband.

Well, she'll have to stamd in line like everyone else.

I agree with Jacqueline - this is not a method I support, at all. I do a lot of work with late-night and morning talk shows (though obviously not those based out of LA) and IMO it is ridiculous for any one group to somehow think that this behavior is okay for "them." I can tell you right now that when some nut jumps up and starts screaming and behaving unpredictably, you become very aware of how important the codes of public behavior are. It is legitimately frightening to be around people like that, whatever their message is - because they are BULLIES, and because you don't know how far they will go. This sort of tactic relies on scaring and harassing people who are mostly uninvolved - fellow audience members, guests on the show, Jimmy Kimmel himself (who did not aim a light at anyone and who is most likely, wisely, waiting for the labor board to deal with this issue themselves, since he does not in any way manage the lighting crew and has no position of authority over them). Why shouldn't pro-lifers buy theater tickets and stand up and start screaming from the balconies, at cast members who advocate for abortion rights? Why shouldn't we all just scream and harass each other until each of us gets our way?

We have created solutions for getting our way, when we deserve to. There are legal paths for demanding that such wrongs be addressed, and as far as I can tell those paths aren't being closed off to the pro-life protesters, so there is no need for them to plant themselves in the audience and DEMAND ACTION. If you want action, go through the proper channels. If you refuse the proper channels in favor of attention-grabbing, work-halting, safety-compromising stunts allegedly designed to make your "demands" heard, you should be arrested.

Isn't this really just mild terrorism? Forcing your views on others ears and eyes by acts of tresspassing and harrasment? When was the last time you saw a Pro-Choice group burst in on Fox and friends in the middle of taping? Seriously with all the youtube videos and movies comming out, as well as in person protesting do you really think there is anyone in america that hasn't "Heard Your Message"? The Majority of Americans dissagree with you.

Isn't this really just mild terrorism? Forcing your views on others ears and eyes by acts of tresspassing and harrasment? When was the last time you saw a Pro-Choice group burst in on Fox and friends in the middle of taping? Seriously with all the youtube videos and movies comming out, as well as in person protesting do you really think there is anyone in america that hasn't "Heard Your Message"? The Majority of Americans dissagree with you.

"When was the last time you saw a Pro-Choice group burst in on Fox and friends in the middle of taping?"

What would the Pro-Abort group burst in on Fox and friends about exactly? Pro-Aborts already support the killing of human beings so what would they get upset about? Maybe that not enough humans are being aborted?

Abortion is terrorism and there is nothing mild about it.

You are comfortably numb Biggz.

Posted by: Biggz at July 3, 2010 6:33 PM
-------

Do you think most Americans think it's humane to grind someone up in a wood chipper - or do you think they are too busy amusing themselves to even care?

Biggz, Jill Stanek posted a video on this site showing a group of pro-choicers who stampeded into a lecture hall at a campus and screamed and chanted and disrupted a pro-life lecture. They were terrorizing the speaker and trampling the rights of the students who CHOSE to be there.

Do a little research before you make such broad statements. Pro-choicers are notorious for this kind of tactic. We're just giving you a dose of your own medicine.

Ha! Ha! Keep up the good work! Silly people like you ensure that abortion remains as it should; legal.

Heck after potential parents see those teens they may rethink their own views on spawning.

Jill, if you do talk with Ryan Bueler again, please forward to him my opinion that he has a positive moral responsibility to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. Else, these thugs will only be emboldened to do this sort of stuff to other prolifers. This is a consideration that must be weighed. It's fine to "turn the other cheek", but only if it doesn't expose the throats of others.

I find it amusing when individuals rant about their rights being violated when babies are being killed at an alarming rate. And then they expect pro-lifers to feel guilty that they are pro-active when it comes to life. Anything that is legal, that does not violate the physical space or reasonable integrity of another person, I am for. And it is laughable that it's allright for the pro-deathers to cite their legal authority to kill babies. Well as pro-lifers we also have rights to do anything that is within the context of the law when fighting for life. So enjoy your little death dance we will dance for life and then we'll see who wins.

Sydney,

You said, "Pro-choicers are notorious for this kind of tactic. We're just giving you a dose of your own medicine."

I ask, "Why should be stoop to that level?" Two wrongs don't make a right. The juvenile abhorrent things that pro-aborts do that we rightly condemn should NOT be emulated. By your logic, we should be able to tear pro-aborts limb from limb because THAT would truly be a dose of their own medicine. We should not return evil for evil. The bullies that shined the light on the protester should be prosecuted to the full extent of the LAW, not bullied in return. If the law fails, then we change the LAW.

Jacqueline, maybe I don't think its wrong. I think thats what makes America great...that we can protest. Does it change anyone's mind or prick consciences? I don't know. but I think pro-choicers and pro-lifers should have the right to do it. I just think its funny that pro-choicers do this kind of thing all the time but the moment pro-lifers do they wanna whine like babies about it (pun totally intended!)

I just don't see this as "protest" Sydney- I see it as bullying and harassment. There is a clear distinction.

That group that disrupted my friend's presentation in Canada was bullying and harassing. Had they picketed outside of the room, that would be protest.

And this group in particular, they are demanding, harassing and bullying for an APOLOGY for themselves. The effort they are putting in getting a stupid APOLOGY for themselves is effort they are not putting into saving babies.

Hey Jill, do you think you'll ever work as a nurse again after repeatedly violating patient confidentiality rules and lying about your colleagues' practices regarding premature newborns?

Posted by: EnfantTerrible at July 4, 2010 10:29 PM

"Hey Jill, do you think you'll ever work as a nurse again after repeatedly violating patient confidentiality rules and lying about your colleagues' practices regarding premature newborns?"

--------------------------------------------------

Now there is an interesting take.

Criticizing someone for reporting a criminal act.

Report unethical and criminal activity or keep the 'omertá'.

There are probably hospital regulations and crimimal law that make illegal NOT to report violations.

I know physicians have a legal obligation to report suspected child abuse and/or spousal abuse.

EnfantTerrible,

Have you stopped beating your wife/husband/life partner?

To all you pro lifers out there I was flipping irate at you. How dare you protest your life size posters right across the street from Toy Story 3. Due to the sidewalk closure I was forced to go through your demonstration with my 5 girls asking me all kinds of questions about your crap. How dare you take away my parenting role of guiding my children through life? How dare you take away the innocence of my children or any other children? Then on top of it I couldn't even have a discussion with you people about tact and what you were doing because I had my children around freaked out about what you were showing. That's not fair. There's a time and place for everything and that wasn't it! All you activists have a one sided view of everything. Do you know the story of each of those pictures? All though I don't agree with late term abortions some of those abortions could have stories behind them. One of them could have been a 15 year old pregnant girl trying to keep it secret from her parents only to have them find out and force her to do that. One fetus could have already died inside of the mother. The mother could have been at death's door. And beside this who deemed you the moral police? And how many people honestly do this? Most people get their abortions within the first trimester. You people hold these posters in order to get a rise out of people about the abortions and all it did was make me furious with you. I don't know how many people you get to actually team up with you after that but since abortion isn't going anywhere why don't you try focusing on something you might be able to change or help which might decrease the amount of abortions or unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Like put your resources together and help educate the youth about safe sex, abstinence, adoption. Present pictures of peacefulness like mother's and babies together. You people really need an overhaul of your whole system because what you are doing is wrong. I know I am not the only one who feels this way...everyone that I have told about this terrible experience forced upon my family has felt the same way whether they are pro life or pro choice.

Thats right Kimberly. Misplace your anger....keep doing it. your parenting must be swell. No, really, keep getting mad at those trying to stop the slaughter of children. Don't actually get mad at those DOING the slaughtering. your thought process is astounding.

First, even if one of those slaughtered babies belonged to a 15 year old who was FORCED to abort, does that make it OKAY? NO. What sane person thinks circumstances change the outcome of what was done? So what exactly does your dumb argument prove? NOTHING.

Women who are receiving prenatal care and whose babies die that late do not go to an abortion clinic to have a poorly skilled doctor (most abortionists are, and many have disciplinarian actions on their records also..look it up) rip their wanted baby into shards of flesh. They go to HOSPITALS where THEIR REGULAR OB/GYN's start the labor process. I know because I have had friends who have lost children late in pregnancy. So strike two on another one of your ridiculous arguments.

No matter how those children died it shows that fetuses are children. late term abortions are happening in this country Kimberly. What are you doing about it besides ranting on a pro-life website and sticking your head in the sand?

All of those pictures that pro-lifers use can be documented as to where those children were found. They were all found in the dumpsters of abortion clinics.

you know what Kimberly? You think you know everything, why don't you google baby Rowan? He was aborted at a clinic in florida. He was born alive and the clinic locked his mother bleeding in the bathroom while he drew his last breaths. Dr. G (ya know of Dr. G medical Examiner tv show fame) autopsied him. He was a real child. Just like your children. Where is justice for him? Google baby David. He was SEVEN MONTHS gestation and had his HEAD RIPPED OFF. That hurt so darn bad he BIT THROUGH HIS OWN TONGUE...and he has no teeth so imagine the force used to rip that baby's head off.

Do you beat your children? Do you speak out against others who beat their children? Who made you the moral police? If someone stole your purse and people just stood by and let the thief get away would you want THEM to act like moral police? If some man were raping a woman would you want people on the street to walk by like nothing happened? Afterall, no one can speak out against wrong because then Kimberly might call them the moral police! Oh no!

People like you sicken me. Stop your whining and do something to protect children. Do you let your children watch and idolize the star of Hannah Montana with her tween skankiness (can't remember her name, sorry) or do you only protect your children from truth? Some parents like you get your knickers in a knot over us pro-lifers but then expose their children to the uber-sexuality of tv, radio, allow them unlimited access to the dangers of the internet, etc...

Please Kimberly. Get real. I'm a mom too. I'm glad my young son knows the truth about abortion. I learned the truth when I saw a picture of an aborted baby when I was 8. It was a good thing Kimberly. It kept me from giving away my virginity as a teen. Maybe your kids will stay pure if you share the truth with them. Or maybe you can hide in your closet, stick your fingers in your ear and go "Nah nah nah nah nah...not happening!"

Kimberly,

Pictures of mothers and babies together does not show that ABORTION KILLS CHILDREN, children just like yours.

Why aren't you mad that ABORTION KILLS CHILDREN? You are defending the killing. Why is it that the pictures make you mad but the killing in the pictures is something you defend?

You lost a very good teaching moment with your children, to explain to them what abortion is and why it's wrong, and why we try to stop it- that these people showing the truth are trying to save children. In fact, you could be saving your own grandchildren by showing the kids why abortion is unacceptable, rather than waiting until they do to your grandbabies what was done to the children in the picture. You missed a priceless, vital. opportunity being "flippin' irate"

Kimberly,
Heed Sydney's advise, please. Statistics show that two of your five girls will abort one of your grandchildren in their lifetime for no reason other than convenience. Isn't that scary? Do more research before talking to your girls. You have a perfect opening to begin the conversation that can influence your daughters' futures!

"I was forced to go through your demonstration with my 5 girls asking me all kinds of questions about your crap."

Kimberly,

Human children are not crap!

If your children are old enough to ask the hard questions, they are old enough to hear the hard truth.

What do you tell your girls when they ask questions about finding a dead bird or when they notice a pet is hit by a car? FACT: Pets and people die. I'd be interested in knowing how your discussions surrounding death go because kids ask these questions too.

FACT: The only difference between losing a loved one and abortion is in an abortion human persons are doing this to other human persons ON PURPOSE! This is the hard part about explaining abortion to kids, isn't it Kimberly?

Teachable moments happen all the time. You missed a big one.

How dare you take away my parenting role of guiding my children through life?

Pardon my frankness, but if you were doing your parenting role in this regard your children would not have been freaking out and have so many questions.

I agree that your anger is misplaced. Perhaps the truth got to your kids before you adequately prepared them, but I would venture to say by your defense of abortion that you never intended to tell your children the truth that abortion kills children. I am glad at least that someone could get that message to your girls given that 2-3 of them are likely to abort in their lifetime. Again, they would be aborting your grandchildren.

I am all for parents' rights and the parents role to educate. The irony is that all those parents that DO educate their children have no problem with such displays. It's only the parents that want to ignore abortion or justify it that become incensed when THEY have to see the truth. I guarantee you that you would have been just as angry at the display if you alone saw it as you were with your children. You are just using your children as a smokescreen to justify your anger at seeing the evil you support because it pricks your conscience.

Again you people aren't getting my point. When did it become your right to parent my children? When did it become your decision on when I should or shouldn't have this conversation with them? My husband and I don't feel that our young girls need to know this information right now and that is our right..not yours. I don't care if you tell your kids but I care if you tell mine. I don't tell you or picket on issues that you should educate your children on. I don't find it fair or right so I am asking for the same consideration when thinking about demonstrating across from a children's movie. Also, why can't your demonstrating be left to in front of abortion clincs where it has a purpose? Also as I have read some of the past comments I am not the only person that feels this way. Again, your tactics need an overhaul and maybe people would be able to listen about "abortion killing children" and not focusing on your bullying techniques. I'm glad that you have the freedom of opinion in our great country, but it doesn't mean you have to be vile. Thanks to your information I probably could have been aborted due to the fact that I was born to a teen mom, but it doesn't give me the right to judge or tell someone else what to do.

Hi Kimberly.

"but it doesn't give me the right to ... tell someone else what to do. "

So you would say that you don't have the right (much less duty) to tell someone not to kill an innocent human being?

Again you people aren't getting my point.

No, we responded to all your points. If there is one we missed, we'll address it directly if you would ask directly.

You are upset because you had to see the evil you support. You need to step back and come to the inevitable conclusion that the only way to stop being upset about supporting the ultimate child abuse is to STOP SUPPORTING THE ULTIMATE CHILD ABUSE. Attacking pro-lifers with misplaced anger about usurping your parental role, and other smokescreens will not make you feel better.

"When did it become your decision on when I should or shouldn't have this conversation with them?"

When it became your legal right to kill your own children.

@bro ken
> Now there is an interesting take.
> Criticizing someone for reporting
> a criminal act.

There were no criminal acts. Ms. Stanek did not report anything to the police, and she was *lying*.

What's more, violating patient confidentiality is itself a criminal act under HIPAA, punishable by a large fine. Ms. Stanek was lucky to be merely fired and not charged.

At least she has a cushy revenue stream from her right-to-lie activities. That wingnut welfare gravy train sure looks profitable. I hate having scruples sometimes.

God bless you Sydney and your passion for life. In the spirit realm may your annointing be so strong that when you go near those who knowing the evils of abortion make it their personal agenda to promote it, that your annointing will be such that when you speak or go near these individuals that they will either be convicted are rendered ineffective in their advocacy for the death of babies.

No negative posts please if Sydney's words about baby David don't smite your heart mine sure won't.

Posted by: Kimberly at July 5, 2010 12:38 PM

"When did it become your right to parent my children? When did it become your decision on when I should or shouldn't have this conversation with them? My husband and I don't feel that our young girls need to know this information right now and that is our right..not yours."

Kimberly,

If were out with my young children and I was confronted with objectionable material or behavior I would have gotten them out of there as quickly as possible.

I would have addressed their questions with an age appropriate response.

Sometimes the unpleasent realities of life are interjected into our shelterred existence and we are forced to deal with these unpleasentries sooner than we would have chosen.

You were presented with an opportunity for a teachable moment with your children.

Here is 19 minute short film currently availabe one of our local cable channels that might assist in answering your childrens questions about that with which they were confronted.

The Train to Toyland: A Heartbreaking Tale of the Holocaust

Toyland (Spielzeugland) is the 2009 Academy Awards Winner for the Best Live Action Short Film. Toyland tells the powerful story of a German mother in those early days of WWII whose son is best friends with a Jewish boy living next door, both of whom are given piano lessons by the friend’s father. When the mother learns that the neighboring Jewish family is scheduled to be picked up and taken away by the Nazi’s on the very next day, she attempts to placate her own son’s curiosity about their surprise trip by telling him that his friend is merely making a vacation visit to “Toyland” in Switzerland.

Posted by: EnfantTerrible at July 5, 2010 1:13 PM

"What's more, violating patient confidentiality is itself a criminal act under HIPAA, punishable by a large fine. Ms. Stanek was lucky to be merely fired and not charged."

-------------------------------------------------

Bad Child,

If Jill had violated the 'law' as your assert, then the 'dead babies r us' folks who run the show in the Windy City would have surely spared no expense to prosecute her.

It one thing to reveal merely medical facts. It is another thing to reveal enough facts to divulge the identity of the patient.

Show me in the reasons given for Jill Staneks dismissal from the hospital where she was accused of violating hospital policy and/or the federal HIPPA statutes.

You are making allegations. Please show us the documented evidence your accusations are true.

Ken 2;02PM

A great response. Can we always shelter our children from life's unpleasantries? Hardly. Children may end up witnessing an armed robbery while in a bank. They may witness a car accident. I wonder if Kimberly can control everything her children see on TV, hear on the radio, or listen to on the playground.

@bro ken
> Now there is an interesting take.
> Criticizing someone for reporting
> a criminal act.

There were no criminal acts. Ms. Stanek did not report anything to the police, and she was *lying*.

What's more, violating patient confidentiality is itself a criminal act under HIPAA, punishable by a large fine. Ms. Stanek was lucky to be merely fired and not charged.

At least she has a cushy revenue stream from her right-to-lie activities. That wingnut welfare gravy train sure looks profitable. I hate having scruples sometimes.

First of all, sorry for posting duplicate comments. Secondly, I had forgotten that there was several-year waiting period before HIPAA, which was enacted in 1996, took full effect. This was to give hospitals, clinics, etc enough time to be compliant with HIPAA's requirements. Ms. Stanek was fired in 2001, *before* HIPAA took effect.

That said, there was an article at www-dot-consciencelaws-dot-org about Stanek's dismissal. All that's left now is a summary, but it is clear that Stanek had violated Christ Hospital's patient confidentiality rules. That, and her lying about her colleagues' practices with regard to abortion, etc, pretty much killed her career. Patients don't want to be treated by someone they cannot trust. Medical professionals don't want liars on their teams.

Were the photographers who took pictures of the victims of The Holocaust shown as much contempt??

Pro aborts MO seems to be get angry at those that hold the photos of the atrocities of abortion NOT at those that perpetrate the atrocities depicted in the photos.

I believe that is called projection?

Kimberly, I am not trying to parent your children. No one here is. But if the choice comes down to keeping photos of aborted children hidden and your (and other kids) happy or maybe upsetting a couple children (or parents) and saving some preborn babie's lives, the choice is clear. I'd rather offend you and yet make a woman going for an abortion turn around and choose life then make you my best friend and have the blood of children on my hands.

BTW, I think my job as a mom is not to always keep my child from distress. Life has sorrow and fear and anger. If my sole job was to keep my son happy at all times I would never ask him to pick up his toys or tell him he can't have ice cream before dinner. I also know its my job to impart knowledge of whats right and wrong on my 3 year old. He is very smart and knows all about abortion. He saw a picture of an aborted baby on my computer and asked all about it. It made him very very sad but not hysterical. I think children handle these pictures better than the parents. There are a lot of guilt-ridden hearts out there.

My husband was right...trying to have a conversation with activists is a waste of time. You all refuse to accept that there is another side to your argument. And if any of you have paid attention I have not taken any side of the abortion topic. The way I feel is irrelevant to the topic I have presented. I simply want you to realize that I have the right to inform MY children in an age appropriate manner to have these discussions with them. BTW Sydney, just because I choose, as my right it is to do so, not to have this conversation with them as soon as they can talk doesn't mean I keep them from distress. They know about some of the evils in the world, however, I don't feel that my 3 year old, 6 year old or even my 8 year old need to know about murder, sex, rape, etc. yet. Why can't they keep their innocence of the world for a little while? They are older with developed opinions longer than they are a child. I just want someone to acknowledge that it is unfair to rob me of this. I'm glad that you are able to speak your opinion in this great country of ours but do you have to do it at the sacrifice of innocent children? Why can't you keep your agenda where it has a purpose like in front of abortion clinics or colleges where it is almost guaranteed that you will have a majority of people over the age of 16? Also, since abortion isn't going anywhere why can't your pull your resources together and educate teenagers and young adults on how to avoid getting pregnant in the first place? That's where I feel my voice is and where the most change can happen...not in vile pictures that freak my kids out. Also, on a personal note I will always choose life and I would encourage anybody in a precarious situation to do so as being a parent has been the best gift ever.

Why are the pictures vile, Kimberly?

Why don't we show these vile pictures in every high school in America so teenagers KNOW what an abortion is and what it does to an innocent human child? That to me would be a very good place to start.

I don't know that we have met yet. I am Carla. An activist/moderator here.

"I'm glad that you are able to speak your opinion in this great country of ours but do you have to do it at the sacrifice of innocent children?"

I wish you could see the irony of how you oppose innocent children seeing pictures of killed innocent children but care less for the innocent children being killed.

I maintain that this isn't about your children at all. Had you passed the pictures in your care outside of an abortion clinic would would have been just as disturbed, but with a less noble veneer for your complaint.

Wowser, what a bunch of committed anti-abortion radicals you all are, LOL. Heckling a TV show. Ooooooh, that's heavy.

If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. Otherwise, please shut the **** up and accept the law of the land. Roe v. Wade is settled law. You lost. Get over it.

[Edited by moderator - profanity]

The problem with all you Anti-choice morons is that you fail to understand that the rest of the world does not believe abortion is murdering a baby. We see it "as most of the medical community do" as a prevention of an unwanted pregnancy not a unwanted child. Sorry to say it but you do not have the right to force your misguided and religious views on any other American. Displaying 6 foot signs in front of 5yo kids is flat wrong and quite damaging to that poor child. You can try to justify it anyway you like but you are forcing those pictures on little children at Toy Story 3!!! This is a great example of the true motives behind the Anti-choice movement... It’s not about saving babies it’s about forcing Christianity on everyone else. Until he starts paying child support... Jesus can kiss my ***!

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Kimberly, if they had held signs in front of a clinic you would have had a fit over that too. The problem is that YOU are too comfortable with abortion. People like you, people that may not get one THEMSELVES but stick their heads in the sand and let it go on and on and on...you're the reason abortion happens. So since you let it happen suck it up and deal with the pictures. This is TRUTH. When you are disturbed enough to stop abortion then hopefully one day we will have no need to show pictures anymore. We are trying to wake up that apathetic masses such as yourself.

Biggz...what you or the world does or does not believe does not equate truth. The world at one time believed the earth to be flat. Did that make the earth flat? NOPE. It was still round even as "the world" sailed around terrified they would fall off the edge of the horizon. Morons. If they had just LOOKED at the horizon you can clearly see its spherical curve. They could have seen the earth is round. But they chose to be ignorant.

Kinda like you pro-choice morons. (just returning the terms of endearment you used) I mean, we have TECHNOLOGY..the INTERNET where you can readily do your own research and view medically documented photos of babies only a few weeks old in the womb. Clearly HUMAN. Clearly BABIES. But keep believing that as long as "the world" is on your side it makes it true. "The world" also practices genocide. You cool with that, "Biggz"?

There are plenty atheists who are pro-life Biggz. Get a new argument.

"Also, on a personal note I will always choose life and I would encourage anybody in a precarious situation to do so as being a parent has been the best gift ever."

So you believe abortion should become illegal, right, Kimberly?

"We see it "as most of the medical community do" as a prevention of an unwanted pregnancy not a unwanted child. Sorry to say it but you do not have the right to force your misguided and religious views on any other American. Displaying 6 foot signs in front of 5yo kids is flat wrong and quite damaging to that poor child."

Why so upset over photos of an "unwanted pregnancy", Biggz? Why is it wrong if kids see photos of an "unwanted pregnancy"? Get a grip on reality.

Sounds like you and Bordo are attempting to rationalize the abortions in your past.

Biggz,
Let's go after the guys who make babies and fail to pay child support instead of killing innocent babies.

"Until he starts paying child support... Jesus can kiss my ***!"

What does Jesus have to do with you having sex with a jerk?

Again trying to have a conversation with you and you speak in such a condescending tone...even before I had kids I knew and so do a lot of people that very early on that embryos and fetuses are babies but I also recognize that people have different views as mine and I accept that...no use beating a dead horse...but as usual since I have ignited this discussion there has been no proof that it is okay and/or beneficial for young children who don't even know where babies come from to be forced to view your 5 foot photos. It's crazy how all you guys think you know he I lead my life or raise my children just because I want to make the decision on when to talk to my kids about this stuff. Everyone is just going in circles with their reasons on being prolife and claiming that everybody who doesn't have the same view as yours has their heads in the sand or is living in a closet. If that works for you then go with it. No need to respond to me because I don't feel the need to converse with so many judgemental people anymore for doing what you and I are allowed to do in this country...Have an opinion...I won't be checking the box for further comments. For people claiming to save the lives of babies you're doing it at the sacrifice of innocent living young children.
One final note to all of you why not bring sex education in high school heck even junior high and maybe abortion wouldn't even be an issue. It's a proven fact that if you empower the youth with knowledge about masturbation, sex, and what to do to avoid unwanted pregnancies and diseases they stay "pure" longer. Why go seek something with someone else if you can take care of yourself?

Again trying to have a conversation with you and you speak in such a condescending tone...even before I had kids I knew and so do a lot of people that very early on that embryos and fetuses are babies but I also recognize that people have different views as mine and I accept that...no use beating a dead horse...but as usual since I have ignited this discussion there has been no proof that it is okay and/or beneficial for young children who don't even know where babies come from to be forced to view your 5 foot photos. It's crazy how all you guys think you know he I lead my life or raise my children just because I want to make the decision on when to talk to my kids about this stuff. Everyone is just going in circles with their reasons on being prolife and claiming that everybody who doesn't have the same view as yours has their heads in the sand or is living in a closet. If that works for you then go with it. No need to respond to me because I don't feel the need to converse with so many judgemental people anymore for doing what you and I are allowed to do in this country...Have an opinion...I won't be checking the box for further comments. For people claiming to save the lives of babies you're doing it at the sacrifice of innocent living young children.
One final note to all of you why not bring sex education in high school heck even junior high and maybe abortion wouldn't even be an issue. It's a proven fact that if you empower the youth with knowledge about masturbation, sex, and what to do to avoid unwanted pregnancies and diseases they stay "pure" longer. Why go seek something with someone else if you can take care of yourself?

Well I know that my toddler shouldn't be beaten, but I realize that other people have different opinions than mine...no use beating a dead horse. So I don't speak out against child abuse or try to stop it if I see someone beating their kid...

Thats your approach Kimberly? So you agree that preborn babies ARE human beings but you don't feel that you can speak out? Because someone sees it different than you you don't try to educate or prick their conscience? you don't offer support so that moms don't abort? You just what? Tell yourself that at least you're not beating a dead horse?

Kimberly, you're the one who came on here with a pissy tone and now you try to act as if WE'RE being condescending to YOU? pulease.

BTW, in re-reading your first post, most abortions ARE performed in the first trimester. You can watch videos of first trimester D & C's. You can see their absolutely tiny but perfectly formed arms and legs being scraped out of the mother. You act like having an abortion in the first trimester isn't killing an already formed, living human child.

But now that I've educated you'll probably get your knickers in a knot again thinking I'm being condescending. Whatever.

One more thing...

Kimberly, look. If everyone took your approach, the "sing a little louder" approach we'd still have black people walking the streets in chains today. Fortunately, there ARE people with a conscience who see wrong and speak out against it no matter how unpopular it may be or how violent the opposition gets. Enslaving blacks was wrong. Killing unborn children soley for the "sin" of being unborn is wrong.

"One final note to all of you why not bring sex education in high school heck even junior high and maybe abortion wouldn't even be an issue."

What rock do you live under Kimberly? Our young people are saturated with sex now more than ever in every environment! Most of them know all about contraception, masterbation and "friends with benefits" starting before their teen years. Your head is deep in the sand if you don't believe the majority of kids know this stuff before they even reach high school.

I like how you say you'd always choose life but can't go as far as saying it should be illegal.
I've always wondered how conversations with proabort parents go. Maybe some proabort parents can fill me in because I can in no way comprehend having this discussion with my 10 year old (or whatever age they are when they find out about abortion). You can't keep abortion from them forever Kimberly.

Child: Mom, I saw some pictures of aborted babies on the internet at Suzi's house today. Have you ever heard of abortion?

Mom: Yes I have.

Child: I just can't believe this goes on in our country. You've never had an abortion have you Mom?

Mom: No, no Sweetie. I could never abort a child. "I will always choose life and I would encourage anybody in a precarious situation to do so as being a parent has been the best gift ever."

Child: Then you believe abortion is wrong for everyone and should be illegal? Right? Right, Mom? Mom?

Mom: Well, actually no Honey. Other people have different views and they have a right to their views just like we have a right to our views. I know those abortion pictures are just terrible and I tried everything in my power to keep you from ever seeing these photos. You need to understand that others can look at these photos and not see the ripped apart babies the way you do dear. We have no right to judge those who want an abortion and you might need an abortion yourself someday. Abortion needs to remain a choice for women.

Child: Mom, I have a really bad stomachache.

Mom: It's past your bedtime now sweetheart. Head up to bed.

Child: But I don't think I'll be able to sleep. I feel really sick.

Mom: Oh honey just "take care of yourself" and that will help you go to sleep. Sweet dreams.

Thank you, thank you to my dear parents who realized that not only my life but everyone's life begins at conception and we all deserve protection from there on out.

I am certain that children of prolife parents sleep better at night.

It would be just as wrong to show a 5yo kid bloody Iraq war pictures or of a brain tumor surgery or a dog being hit by a car, but that’s not the point. The point is that you are taking away that parenting choice from that 5yo parents. You’re taking it upon yourself to "educate" someone else's children without their permission. But by all means, justify away…

As far as teaching in junior high schools the anti-choice approach IS COMPLETELY WRONG! You can’t just preach abstinence and have kids wear false promise rings and expect everything to be ok... That the “ostrich head in the sand” school of thought. Today’s kids need REAL sex education. They need their questions actually answered with scientific facts not religious propaganda where sex is evil and it will destroy everything in your future and your “after-life”, but you will get none of this from the religious right.

Oh and please remember that those ancient people who thought the world was flat also believed in and died for their Gods which nobody prays to anymore because we now know why the sun moves across the sky everyday so Apollo’s chariot is just a silly thing to pray to these days. Their gods explained everything they didn’t understand then just like your god explains everything you don’t understand NOW! Someday in the future we will 100% know what happens if anything when we die and how our world/universe was created so there will be no need to believe in your God anymore as well. All religions die eventually once they have been disproved or do I need to list all this worlds previous false gods that no one prays to anymore...

It would be just as wrong to show a 5yo kid bloody Iraq war pictures or of a brain tumor surgery or a dog being hit by a car, but that’s not the point. The point is that you are taking away that parenting choice from that 5yo parents. You’re taking it upon yourself to "educate" someone else's children without their permission. But by all means, justify away…

As far as teaching in junior high schools the anti-choice approach IS COMPLETELY WRONG! You can’t just preach abstinence and have kids wear false promise rings and expect everything to be ok... That the “ostrich head in the sand” school of thought. Today’s kids need REAL sex education. They need their questions actually answered with scientific facts not religious propaganda where sex is evil and it will destroy everything in your future and your “after-life”, but you will get none of this from the religious right.

Oh and please remember that those ancient people who thought the world was flat also believed in and died for their Gods which nobody prays to anymore because we now know why the sun moves across the sky everyday so Apollo’s chariot is just a silly thing to pray to these days. Their gods explained everything they didn’t understand then just like your god explains everything you don’t understand NOW! Someday in the future we will 100% know what happens if anything when we die and how our world/universe was created so there will be no need to believe in your God anymore as well. All religions die eventually once they have been disproved or do I need to list all this worlds previous false gods that no one prays to anymore...

Biggz-
When a mom is expecting what do you think she's carrying in her womb? Please enlighten us enlightened one. And I think the number is 50 million babies killed since RoevWade what in your own opinion is the cause of this outrageous number. And try to be objective.

Being objective is easy for someone who doesn’t have "Beliefs" and has no problem saying "I don’t know" if no evidence has been presented to bring the truth to light.

What is in a woman womb up to the 8th week is and Zygote. A grouping of human DNA cells in the process of dividing into a muti-cell organism. After 8 weeks you have a fetus which is the beginnings of a human organism but is not self aware or even has a functioning nervous system let alone frontal lobe. At the end of 9 months the fetus is developed and after birth and you have a baby.

So the rally cry you all use "Your Killing Babies!" is a sensationalist LIE. Abortion Stops the development of zygotes and fetuses into human babies. You are stopping the development, just like you would if you removed a benign cyst before it developed into full blown aggressive cancer. You’re not killing cancer your stopping its development from a benign cyst into aggressive cancer.

I would never compare a baby with cancer but a zygote and a tumor are both developing human cell groups.

You guys should, in the interest of accuracy, change you battle cry to "Stop killing zygotes!" but that doesn’t provoke the type of predetermined response you guys are looking for, but BABY KILLING! makes for good headlines on posters and FOX news.

Nope- a zygote is the baby pre-implantation. You are referring to an EMBRYO. If you want to use medical terminology as a euphemism to deny you are destroying unique, separate human beings, at least get your terminology correct. And more feti are aborted than embryos, given the window is small and eaten up by not knowing one is pregnant and scheduling the abortions.

Here is what cute little human embryos look like:

And here is a 10-week human fetus, an age where thumb-sucking starts.

By the way, your argument for killing human beings doesn't fly- because zygote, embryo and fetus don't refer to non-humans, but humans at a particular stage of human development. It's like saying "I'm not killing a toddler! I'm stopping the development of an INFANT who would become a toddler!" Or, "I'm not killing a adolescent. I'm stopping the development of a child before she can become an adolescent." Children are in a stage of development before puberty, is there lack of ability to reproduce grounds to kill them? No matter how you de-personify the unborn to act as if you are killing a human that's less than human, you are still killing a human. A tumor is not a human being that will develop into a larger human being. That's an absurd analogy.

You are killing human beings. You are stopping a beating human heart (You can't have an abortion without a heartbeat- look it up). So I will be fine with just saying, "STOP KILLING HUMAN BEINGS AT ANY AGE OF DEVELOPMENT." You recognize that you are killing a human being, but are fine with it as long as it's at certain stages.

Your argument is an epic fail. Try again.

Biggz
I should have had the courtesy to read your entire post but I decided not to. I will give you a very simple argument because I like simplicity. The very first memory I have of thinking about the abortion issue I was very young. With the mind of a child I thought I had a very valid solution for those who questioned the validity of the humanity of an unborn baby. Back then they were still referring to the unborn baby as a clump of cells. Anyway with the mind of a child I came to the conclusion that if anyone had doubts as to what was growing in a mother's womb they should just leave well enough alone and see what happens. So I'm going to summarize and say if you feel the need to question or compromise the validity of the preborn baby to others do so but with yourself be honest and know that 50 million dead babies is not a good thing. And then after your honest with yourself write a post you know to be true. Sorry no fancy proof but I find it very tiresome to prove what is obvious. :)

"They need their questions actually answered with scientific facts not religious propaganda"

So you have no problems with middle schoolers showing real videos of abortions and pics of the aborted fetuses? This would show the youngsters the scientific fact that human life does truly begin at conception. No religion or gods about it, just scientific facts.

We could show the abortion video right after the preteens practice putting condoms on bananas (bananas can be scientific) and before we start the chapter on having scientific sex with both genders (because you really can't know for sure what you really are until you try it all out, dontcha know).

Jacqueline
I think that picture could be classified as obvious.

Biggz
After looking at that beautiful picture kindly share with us your "beliefs" now.

Biggz...you make me laugh. You try to sound all scientific but you can't even get the right names for the right period of prenatal development. You remind me of my 3 year old when he is trying to sound grown up and smart and makes up silly words that sound smart.

Please before you make STUPID statements about "clusters of human DNA" please just look at a medically documented photo of an 8 week old human fetus. There are fingers and toes! HELLO!!!! Not a cluster of cells. Did you fail school by chance? I'm just taking a wild guess. Not the sharpest crayon in the box are you?

So self-awareness is the line that moves us from non-person to person? First, how do you KNOW a fetus is not self-aware? You can't prove that. Thats your opinion which means diddly squat. I don't care about your opinion. Hit me with FACTS!

Second, what does self-awareness have to do with anything? I lose consciousness each night when I sleep. When I'm in deep sleep I am not self-aware. A bug could land on my nose and I wouldn't know it because I am not aware of myself or my body or my surroundings. Is it okay for my husband to shoot me in my sleep? Cause I'm not self-aware afterall.

Your arguments are moot. Try again.

Hi Biggz,

I am a wee bit troubled by your current understanding about what comprises 'humanity'. {If truth be told I am also appalled at how most people (PL too) comprehend human life in such poor terms that mere words/ideas are sufficient to ascertain anything about its awesomeness (jaw-dropping wonder)].

Science (medical) often uses short cuts in phraseology to avoid a continuing reference to a certain thing. In this case the use the word 'zygote' when what is referenced is a 'human-zygote' and 'embryo' when hey mean human-embryo' If they are speaking of 'lab-rats', then embryo means 'rat-embryo'.... or 'rat-zygote'/'rat-fetus'. This is true for all mammals. They produce embryo's and zygote, and fetus exclusively for their particular species. [All prenant humans will never be-pregnant-with a firetruck.] For instance, sheep will only produce sheep-embryo > sheep-zygote > sheep fetus and give birth to 'lambs'. The same mechanism results in colts for horses; infants/babies for humans; calves for cows etc, etc.

Please note: we talk of 'human' rights ... not birth rights nor 'person rights' As we age we all have markers for entrance into a 'greater' existence. For humans its birth. A newborn gets the status of being a person, legal protection, a name ... an older teen gets protection for drinking alcohol, driving a car, voting, being inducted into the armed--services (you need be a certain minimum age to qualify).

To qualify one needs to be a born(person) and they need to be a 'human'. [Another species does not count.] Thirdly, they need be 'alive'. {Abortion renders a human dead.] Being alive happens at fertilization (not birth) and such guarantees are in the American Constitution as basic 'human' RIGHTS.

Its as if a human goes from '0' to '10000' at birth, because before birth a 'nothing' exists. It's as if the 8lbs-of-screaming-humanity came poof from nowhere and has no protection.

This is so silly, it almost boggles the mind. In growth this period is so special and unique. We would open doors for pregnant mothers; get her to eat a 'special' way; make absolutely sure she did no harm to her baby ............ on and on. Now we're to give a door-prize for killing her baby? Nuts???????????

I would just like to point out to kimberly, even though she says she will not be checking this anymore, that sex-ed classes, as exhibited recently in the scandal about middle-schoolers and condoms, are a bunch of b.s. they are not "resources" nor are they "education". and news flash---you can't prohibit your daughters from having those! which frankly is pathetic and injust.

Also if you continue to wait to talk to your daughters about rape....etc., they may be raped. these things happen because we live in a sinful world- and while i completely agree that parents should have the right to inform their children about issues on their own timing, you do need to realize that life isn't perfect.

You guys are trying to draw a line in the sand that you have no right to draw. The anti-choice movement likes to turn the argument into a moral distinction "is killing babies wrong?" because of the sensational nature of this question and the knee-jerk reaction it provokes out of scared parents, but it is really an argument about who has the right to tell Americans when and where they begin or expand their family. The underline narrative here is about “the sanctity of life” which is a religious belief and in America your religious beliefs or laws do not and should not restrict anyone but you. As Americans we have all agreed to abide by the laws WE set, however there is no national religion for a very good reason. Of course this will be followed by the anti-choice standard response "what about the unborn human’s rights!" Well that’s very simple; under American law the unborn have NO rights. Just like a baby born in china has no American rights. You’re not an American until you are born on American soil or apply for citizenship to be granted. To apply for citizenship they would need the consent of their parents and I would say that birth control or abortion is a pretty solid non-consent. These are the laws we as a country have agreed on and you have the American right to try to change them, but your moral distinctions hold no power over any other American. To argue about abortion rights or DNR rights is a waste of time because your arguing principles based on the assumption that we all agree with the “sanctity of life” moral distinction. 99.9% of all people who believe in the “sanctity of life” are hypocrites. They somehow get to choose which life is sacred and which is not, like the Catholic Church during WWII or the Knight’s Templar during the crusades. How about the chicken and mashed potatoes you had for dinner? Were they not alive before you decided to kill and eat them? All life must kill and consume other life to continue living so where is the sanctity part? When a mother cougar eats 2 of her 4 newborn kittens due to birth defects is this not immediate post-birth abortion. Why would she do this? To preserve limited resources for the kittens who have the best chance to survive? To weed out the genetic inferiorities in the bloodline to promote more efficient evolution? Maybe she was just hungry? The point is we do not understand enough about the purpose of life to make moral distinctions about it or to classify as SACRED…. You are just injecting your point of view into something you’re not qualified to police.

Biggz-

Way to try and change the subject when you were clearly corrected. So I will correct you again and you will change the subject I'm sure in circles until you come to the conclusion that killing human beings is unacceptable.

First, you said, "it is really an argument about who has the right to tell Americans when and where they begin or expand their family"

Opposing abortion has nothing to do with telling someone when to begin or expand a family- just that they can not KILL the family member they created when they began or expanded their family. You can't have an abortion without a human being to abort. That human being is someone's daughter or son, and in the case of expanding a family, someone sister or brother too. We oppose the killing of family members inside the womb like we would if a family decided that grandma was a financial liability and wanted to kill her rather than care for her. So it's telling people when to have children? I think not. They have to create children on their own. I'm simply telling them they can't kill children they've created, whether those children are still living in their womb or living in their house.

And about your "moral distinctions" between humans and animals- Are you not grateful for laws that protect your life? Your families' lives? The lives of others? The moral distinction is that human beings have HUMAN rights, irrelevant to the country of citizenship. My right to live is universal, not granted. Human beings have HUMAN rights. The unborn are human beings.

As for non-human beings, even the law recognizes that humans can only end the lives of animals in a humane fashion or face cruelty changes. The way babies are aborted would be punishable by jail time if done to cat or dog. Babies have their limbs twisted off by forceps while they fight back. Eventually their skull is crushed to be pulled from the mother. If I did this to an animal, I would rightly be punished. Likewise, meat markets have standards of humane killing. It must be instantaneous, a rod through the head, for example. I will make no arguments against or for the morality of humans consuming animals for food, (because abortion doesn't kill animals, it kills HUMAN BEINGS. Women aren't carrying cows or puppies.), but no matter what way you approach this, your argument is total bunk.

Please tell me why unborn human beings are not human beings, because if they are, they should have the same right to live as any other human being at other stages of development.

Ok let me be more clear... NO ONE has a right to life... Life is not sacred. Your HUMAN life is worth no more than a dog’s life. I’m not saying dogs are more important than humans "I am not PETA", in fact I am saying we are all the same. You do not have a right to life. Life is a self consuming system.

Now as for our American laws... you are completely wrong. Abortions in pets are also LEGAL. Just like Humans, if I took my dog to the vet for a pregnancy termination I don’t think I would be hauled off to jail, however if I kicked my dog in the stomach to terminate the pregnancy I’m sure I would go to jail... just like humans.

I find it quite appalling that the anti-choice groups try to lecture the rest of us about the morality of life and death with one hand and then support "if even just in whispers" the murdering of doctors who are fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and grandparents with the other. You will sit there and complain about Kenya’s constitution because somewhere in there is a small section with the word abortion in it, but completely ignore the rest of it which will help that countries poor and starving masses stay healthy and ALIVE!!!

Anti-choice groups campaign against birth control and abortion, so I guess it’s your view that sex is ONLY for procreation. I disagree as does the majority of the human population on this planet. So, where does that leave us... oh yes adoption. I think adopting a child is an awesome thing to do, but let’s be honest here, there are millions of starving, homeless, and parentless kids living all over the world. In Mongolia they sleep in holes in the streets curled up next to the sewer pipes for the heat... I would say you should start there if you’re so interested in protecting children.

It makes no sense to bring more babies into this world when we cannot take care of the ones we already have. This goes back to my cougar and kittens bit in my last post. If you really want to talk morals then how can you justify letting more unwanted pregnancies go to full term to be adopted "causing the mother pain and a very real chance of losing of her own life" when there are so many babies out there starving to death right now? Your point of view has no logic to it at all.

I will be the first to say, that invetro/octo-mom crap is wrong, but only because there are already so many homeless, starving children on this planet. If all the worlds orphans were adopted tomorrow I would be fine with it but still not anti-abortion.

I know you think that God has a plan and we are screwing with his plan every time we interfere with the natural order of things. I disagree. I do not believe in any god. So, what right do you have to force your “God’s Devine Plan” on me or my children? By making abortion illegal you are subjecting your morals onto the rest of us. If you do not agree with abortion or birth control don’t use them… That CHOICE is up to you and your family, but please keep your flawed morals out of mine.

And there you have it folks. Biggz just beautifully illustrated the slippery slope that abortion began. It was once that FETUSES don't have the right to life. Now we have psycho over here telling us NONE of us have the right to live.

Come a little closer Biggz...don't mind my gun. Its totally alright if I put a bullet in your skull, correct? After all you don't have the right to live. So if you tick me off and I lose my temper and kill you...well, thats okay. You have no right to your life.

Biggz...you are officially 100% psycho if you think fellow human beings don't have a right to live.

I just read every comment posted and I have to say that a lot of you sound insane.

Remember that section in the constitution about free speech? It says ALL CITIZENS have the right to speak their opinions. What it does NOT say is that citizens have the right to attack each other for it.

And for the record, I'm a mother and I'm pro-life, but I don't go around throwing insults at someone for speaking their opinion. And I wouldn't choose to allow (or try to force) a 5-year-old to see graphic photos like that. What can a 5-year-old do to "help the cause?" Absolutely nothing. The 5-year-old isn't going out and getting pregnant and having abortions. Use your common sense people. There's plenty of time for them to be "educated" before they're even physically able to do any of that (reproduction isn't even physically possible until adolescence). Haven't you ever heard the phrase "let them be little?" All you're doing is giving the poor kid nightmares because a STRANGER, TOTALLY UNRELATED to the child decided to get an abortion. And you wonder why no one listens to most pro-lifers? Maybe if you focused your efforts on an approach that actually worked, like sex education, instead of trying to terrify people into joining your cause, you might get more support. I know that when I was younger, even a teenager, seeing those photos only made me want to avoid people like you, not listen to you. And I can guarantee that if you try to force my 4-year-old to look at those photos, I wouldn't avoid you - I'd be in your face. It's one thing to educate, it's another to terrorize.

If you want your voice to be heard and to make a real change, look to your state Legislatures, the U.S. Congress, the President. Not 5-year-olds.

Jenn...get real. The Constitution doesn't say you have a right to NOT be offended either.

You're not pro-life. you're a cop out with that attitude. Certainly we work to change the law so that abortion is no longer legal. But more than that we seek to change hearts so that even if abortion is legal forever no one would ever THiNK of going to have one. Children see things all the time. Are you this much of a watchdog when standing in line at the grocery store and there are almost pornographic magazine covers in front of your five year old? Do you moniter TV or do you allow them to watch the filth and garbage that spews forth in front of our children's eyes. Do you look at these pictures of mutilated children and determine you will never let your grandchild be one of them and thus you will teach your children the value of life or do you waste your time lecturing other pro-lifers who are trying to stop the slaughter?

I'm lecturing you Jenn. Shame on you! I think you're just a pro-abort troll.

Sydney,

Tell me how terrifying a 5-year-old is going to help the cause? Really. I want to see what kind of nonsense you can come up with to justify it.

I was a teenage mother and, unlike what most people seem to think about young mothers, I actually kept my daughter (who happens to also be named Sydney) and I've never regretted it. Motherhood is the best thing that's every happened to me. When some others were telling me that I would "throw away [my] future" if I had the child, never once did I even consider abortion because I believe it's wrong and that it's no better than terrorism. I've signed numerous petitions to try and stop abortion. So you can't say that I'm a "troll" or that I'm a cop out. But if you want to trash-talk me for believing that living children deserve to have a good life too, then go right on ahead and trash-talk me.

The fact that you taught your son about abortion at the age of 3 is your choice, which is completely yours to make. Obviously he's very smart and mature for his age. But if I or someone else decides to wait until we believe that our child is old enough to understand it, that's our choice. Explaining why someone's not wearing enough fabric is a lot different than explaining why someone would kill a baby, and especially showing them photos that would probably give them nightmares. It's called parenting - everyone has a different way of doing it - and each child takes things differently. But I chose to experience parenthood and to put it before everything else in my life. I didn't cop out and get an abortion. So why don't you focus on the real problem and not someone who already (mostly) agrees with you. If you didn't notice, I was actually trying to HELP and give suggestions. I guess since what I had to say didn't involve some radical attention-grabbing stunt, I must be secretly against you huh?

But why should I even try to explain where I'm coming from on the subject? You'll just skim through my post looking for certain words to jump on me for.