Last month the organization Abortion Changes You launched an ad campaign in the NY subway system with 2,000 posters affirming feelings and offering help to hurting post-abortive mothers and fathers.
These were considered "heinous" by at least one hardcore pro-abort, worthy of defacing.
The side that murders preborn babies says it's our side that's hateful. The side calling itself "pro-choice" says it's our side that is intolerant. Oh, really? Here's what became of at least 2 of the posters.
ClinicEscort linked to the following photo with this comment...
And the next photo, introduced by pro-abort AmandaMarcotte...
Well at least anyone who goes to their website could see the true message behind their poster, and not the message the pro-choicers defaced it with.Posted by: Rachael C. at April 6, 2010 8:59 PM
Also, they can't deny that having an abortion changes your life to some degree, in some way or another (positive or negatively) when there are so many women now sharing their abortion experiences and stories, and they can't deny those women the right to their feelings, their experiences, and their voices.Posted by: Rachael C. at April 6, 2010 9:06 PM
"Now I can selfishly end your life and live my own, because I don't want to take personal responsibility for another living soul." Ah - life is GOOD (deadly for some) when lies are perpetrated as truth.Posted by: elizabethk at April 6, 2010 9:13 PM
They weren't even smart enough to cover up the pro-life message on the poster. Dumb.Posted by: Janet at April 6, 2010 9:15 PM
This morning, news broke of a Roman Catholic man in Texas who filed a claim with the government to protect him against police officers because he was going to an abortion clinic to "save lives" and he would use DEADLY FORCE if necessary.
This "prolife" person claimed that he was trying to prevent murder... by, it seems, threatening to (and intending to go through with) murdering human beings.
Why is it, then, that I find you here complaining about "hateful" prochoicers speaking the truth about abortion? Where is your outcry against the violence of human beings intended by Lo (the man in Texas)?
Further information for those interested:
How about someone who is proabortion answer the questions I have asked here for almost two years now
How does abortion help women??
How does abortion heal women??
Oh, and the statistic used to be 1 in 4 women. It is down to 1 in 3. Lovely. And just so darn rare.Posted by: carla at April 6, 2010 9:30 PM
Also, they can't deny that having an abortion changes your life to some degree, in some way or another (positive or negatively) when there are so many women now sharing their abortion experiences and stories, and they can't deny those women the right to their feelings, their experiences, and their voices.
Excellent points, and I agree. But as we can see, New Yorkers feel pretty strongly about supporting abortion rights. Providers aren't defacing those ads, girls are......girls who might be former cases.
I call these acts of vandalism patient endorsements!Posted by: Dhalgren at April 6, 2010 9:31 PM
Can we ever just stick to the topic for longer than 4 comments??!!
Get Well Soon.Posted by: Gerard Nadal at April 6, 2010 9:45 PM
It's recently breaking news, chances are, most are just now hearing about it, no need to create straw men where there not needs to be any. But at the same time you denounce pro-lie violence, where's your side's outcry against violence perpetrated by pro-choice activists, violence such as vandalism against and stifling the free speech of pro-life booths and displays at colleges (and I'm not talking about the graphic ones), assault and battery against peaceful pro-life sidewalk counselors at clinics (well within their constitutional right), and vandalism of pregnancy resource centers?
Unfortuantly, this is not the first case of arson, vandalism, or bomb threats at a pregnancy resource center. In July of 2009, a pregnancy center is Eugene, OR, was vandalized with spray-painted phrases "kill us now", "give us your eggs", "freedom", and a swastika on the windows at the front of the pregnancy center. In September of 2008, an arson fire caused total loss at Pregnancy Alternatives Center in Lebanon, Oregon. Also, according the Catholic Sentinel article, in 1999 bomb threats were called in to a California pregnancy center and others were vandalized with graffiti, messages included ``Abortion is a Right'' and ``Lies Told Here.'' and the building was also pasted with flyers for local pro-choice clinics and an epoxy-like substance was smeared over door locks, source: San Francisco Chronicle, 1/23/99. A Canadian center in Winnipeg was covered with graffiti in 2001. In 2004, two Maryland pregnancy centers were vandalized, with smashed windows and computers. In 2005, on the anniversary of Roe v. Wade, another Maryland center was hit with smashed windows and graffiti that said “Choice” and “Womyn Haters.” When a ban on abortions was debated in South Dakota in 2006, the homes of pregnancy center directors were vandalized with eggs, they received threatening phone calls, and the bodies of decomposing animals were left near their workplace. Terry Weaver, executive director of Birthright, recalls bomb threats at the organization’s Atlanta house. She hears about vandalism regularly from Birthright houses around the country — splattered paint, shot-out windows, dog feces in mailboxes. Sometimes, pro-choice activists call the Birthright hotline to heckle the organization
That's the thing, your side speak out against pro-life vandalism and violence, but at the same time perpetrate vandalism and violent crimes against pro-lifers when it's convient for them. Maybe they need to hold their own political movement accountable and get their own act together before making such claims, otherwise they come off as hypocritical.Posted by: Rachael C. at April 6, 2010 9:56 PM
*pro-lie violence, that's pro-life, a bad freudian slip if there ever was one.Posted by: Rachael C. at April 6, 2010 10:00 PM
Excellent points, and I agree. But as we can see, New Yorkers feel pretty strongly about supporting abortion rights. Providers aren't defacing those ads, girls are......girls who might be former cases.
I call these acts of vandalism patient endorsements!
Posted by: Dhalgren at April 6, 2010 9:31 PM
And somehow that makes vandalism ok? So breaking the law and silencing other's free speech is ok, as long as it's done to further your political views/ And what of the women who didn't speak up, the women who were hurt (physically or emotionally) by their abortion or had a poor abortion experience, they're certainly not represented. These women certainly don't represent the views or feelings of all post-abortion women, keep that in mind.Posted by: Rachael C. at April 6, 2010 10:07 PM
i dont understand what is so wrong with letting people make their own choice. i dont tell you what to do with your life. people are dumb. people make stupid mistakes. i just dont think its right to tell someone what to do with their body and their lives. i know you think im wrong but i think people should just leave everyone alone. if you think that women just go have abortions just to have them your wrong. i know girls that had abortions because they were raped or it was an accident or their significant other left them and they had no one to turn to. i know your ganna say thats a bunch of bs but its not i know first hand how these girls feel and i just think you should give it a rest. you talked about before that people are ashamed of abortion. im not and i know that the girls or women and whatever you want to call them are not ashamed they had to do what was right for them and their lives. i know this doesnt really apply to this post but i read an older one about planned parent hood and just wanted to be heardPosted by: anna at April 6, 2010 10:19 PM
Anna - when women choose abortion, remember they are choosing to kill their pre-born child.
So technically, instead of saying I had to have an abortion, they should be saying:
I had to kill my child because....
and if they have had coercion - then we should be getting them help - for example - if a woman wants to continue her education, we should help her get her education, not help her kill her pre-born child; help with housing, etc...
basically - it's not just her body we are talking about - science shows there are two bodies - the baby's and hers.
And one friend is now unable to have children due to her abortion choice. Little did she know that she would be aborting her entire natural family.Posted by: joyfromIllinois at April 6, 2010 10:27 PM
Welcome to a PRO LIFE BLOG. :) We comment about topics that have to do with being PRO LIFE.
You don't tell me what to do with my life? I think you just did. You told me to mind my own business.
Your writing seems strangely familiar...you know all run on together, no capitalization or punctuation. Hmmmm. If you are out trolling tonight you might want to stop by the RH Reality Check blog. You can be heard there as well.Posted by: carla at April 6, 2010 10:32 PM
" i know girls that had abortions because they were raped or it was an accident or their significant other left them and they had no one to turn to."
We're here to tell them that they DO have someone to turn to (if they so choose).Posted by: Janet at April 6, 2010 10:46 PM
i dont get why you want to make a women who made that decision feel even worse by saying to her that you killed your baby that your a horrible person. i just dont get it
oh and by the way i stumbled upon this blog looking for an abortion clinic near me. looking at options
keeping the baby, abortion, adoption i dont know just to let all of you know
Why don't they just come up with their OWN ads instead of defacing others, and who said a young woman who chose to have and keep her baby couldn't go to college? There are MANY that do.Posted by: Jill R. at April 6, 2010 10:54 PM
I don't mean to be rude. I am a moderator here.
You stated you have already had an abortion. So have I. It was the worst mistake of my life.
I would strongly advise you to keep your baby and look up local crisis pregnancy centers in your area. They can offer free maternity clothing, help you find a job, a place to live, baby clothes, cribs etc. etc. etc. You can get a free ultrasound and someone will offer you help and support.
They can also refer you to local adoption agencies.Posted by: carla at April 6, 2010 10:54 PM
Just because life is full of choices does not mean we have to endorse right to those choices legally. Do you endorse right to CHOOSE rape, murder, theft, etc., etc., without legal repurcuessions?
I doubt it.
Not all choices are created equal.
If that choice infringes on the right of another to be able to live, then that is a choice we must oppose.
Where civil rights of others are violated, it becomes everyone's problem.Posted by: Punisher at April 6, 2010 10:54 PM
It sounds like you are no doubt in a difficult situation, please go to the following link to find resources for your current situation:
Are You Facing an Unplanned Pregnancy or Know Someone Who Is?
or call 1-800-395-HELP to speak with a caring person about your options.
This is to Anna, well I appreciate you views, I am a woman that has had 3 abortions. I was fine(I thought for 29 years) and the crushing weight that I was carrying was so unbearable. For 29 years I told people that I had 3 miscarriages, not abortion(I was ashamed and women are still like that now). I was pro-choice and that no one was going to tell me what to do with my body.
You said you know first hand how these girls feel and we should give it a rest. How do you know how they feel? Have you had an abortion? Have you really ever, the truth, seen an aborted baby?
You may say that it is to cruel to say or to show a picture of an aborted baby. But it's the hard truth of what is happening to the unborn.
There are so many women out there hurting and sometimes it will take from 1month to 50/60years they hold it in and not tell anybody(some may) I met a lady 2 weeks ago hurting from an abortion she had in the 40's. And is now just telling her story. That is why Silent No More and Operation Outcry is around. Women are starting not to be ashamed and now speaking out. That is why this poster is up. To let people know it's ok to get help.Posted by: Pati Adams at April 6, 2010 10:57 PM
i never said i had an abortion. i shouldn't have said i knew first hand but i know how these girls feel.
its not that easy when your supposed to be the child thats going places. im not a dumb girl, i just made stupid choices and now im not sure what to do but this isn't about me its about other women. i don't think its right to tell people what choices to make is allPosted by: anna at April 6, 2010 10:58 PM
I am against damaging vandalism and threats of violence, no matter if they come from prochoicers or antichoicers. I do not think stickers which provide facts can be related to arson and death threats- the latter is much more dangerous.
You said: "Maybe they need to hold their own political movement accountable and get their own act together before making such claims, otherwise they come off as hypocritical."
I think this should hold true for both "sides" of the debate. Both prochoicers and antichoicers need to speak out against the violence being caused by those claiming to be prochoice or prolife. By having the majority of people speak out against violence, we will show the general public that it is fringe groups taking our names in violence, and not most prochoice or antichoice supporters.
At least, I hope that is the case, for both sides.
Posted by: KushielsMoon
at April 6, 2010 11:01 PM
This is why I'm so concerned about Jill Stanek *not* speaking out against the violence of Lo in Texas. Just like a school child who stays silent while another child is bullied is just as guilty as the bully, when we refuse to speak out against violence in the abortion debate we become guilty ourselves.
"And somehow that makes vandalism ok?" Rachael C.
Welcome to the world of the ends justifies the means. Come to think of it abortion is certainly the ultimate in the ends justifies the means category--so we are not surprised at the vandalism (excuse me--"patient endorsements") by pro-aborts.
The same ends justifies the means approach erupted all across the country during this past election. McCain signs were routinely damaged or stolen, campaign headquarters damaged, ACORN's misdeeds were legion, gangs intimidated voters, the MSM ignored facts and ramped up favorable coverage to get their guy elected, reports of voting irregularities came in from blue states and party boss big cities...etc. This is how so called "progressives" behave.
Also, as a farm owner I have seen how the "progressives" at PETA behave--going about destroying farmer's livelihoods by damaging buildings, equipment, and releasing livestock. But hey, this is ok because, well, the ends justifies the means. For progressives, the new order is disorder, it is pervasive, and it threatens the fundamentals of society.Posted by: Jerry at April 6, 2010 11:01 PM
Why don't they just come up with their OWN ads instead of defacing others, and who said a young woman who chose to have and keep her baby couldn't go to college? There are MANY that do- most are a little-or even a lot-over the age of 22 when they graduate, but it still means they can go!Posted by: JillR. at April 6, 2010 11:02 PM
Also, you can go to the following link to learn non-biased medical information about abortion and listen to women's experiences and learn what it's like beforehand:
Also, I'd like to offer that I'm a non-judemental peer counselor if you ever need someone to listen to your concerns or if you need advice.Posted by: Rachael C. at April 6, 2010 11:03 PM
thanks rachael cPosted by: anna at April 6, 2010 11:04 PM
Hi Anna, welcome to Jill's blog. I am Jill's administrative assistant here, and from your comments, I can look up your IP (internet provider) address, so I'm aware of what city and state you are posting from. You are posting from my hometown. :) I just want to let you know that there is a Birthright near you, and they can give you information that can help you.
You need to know all the facts about abortion, Anna, before you make your decision. If you'd like to email me personally, I'd be glad to talk with you. My email is firstname.lastname@example.org. It is no accident that you came to this site tonight.
thanks kelli, its kinda creepy that you know that but okay.
and i looked at birthright before. i don't even know if id be able to have an abortion myself i just think that you should be able to choose is all.
You might want to check out http://www.pregnancyoptions.info/
"PregnancyOptions.info provides accurate non-biased information on pregnancy options, including medical abortions with RU486 and surgical abortion, pregnancy decision-making, adoption, childbirth, parenting and more..."
thank you too kushielsmoon... i appreciate all the help from everyone. i just dont want people to judge me if i choose something that others think is wrong.Posted by: anna at April 6, 2010 11:14 PM
Okay, last post before I lay off for a bit- I always feel awful commenting over and over again.
As someone who would probably be described by others as a "progressive" and definitely a liberal, I'd just like to say that I abhor PETA and consider them to be a bunch of terrorists. The people inside the organization (not the random person who signs up because they think pigs look cute), running the place, all sound very crazy whenever they speak out publicly.Posted by: KushielsMoon at April 6, 2010 11:15 PM
thanks kelli, its kinda creepy that you know that but okay.
and i looked at birthright before. i don't even know if id be able to have an abortion myself i just think that you should be able to choose is all.
Posted by: anna at April 6, 2010 11:09 PM
LOL...pretty much any website you comment on has a way of seeing your provider address. :D It doesn't tell me any information about you other than city and state. Don't worry, you're safe. :D
Legally, women can choose to have abortions in this country up to the day of birth. Most women I've spoken with who discover that are mortified by it. The idea that it's an easier choice than adoption or raising a child is simply a myth. Abortion really does change you. Pregnancy has already changed you...and abortion doesn't undo a pregnancy. It takes the life of your growing, developing child. And no woman will ever be exactly as she was after that.Posted by: Kel at April 6, 2010 11:16 PM
I work at a crisis pregnancy center and have been doing that for 11 years now and I can't tell you how many times I hear girls say, I wish someone would of told me the truth, I never knew there were options, doctors lied to me, and so on.... We don't tell people what choices to make, we tell them all their options.
If a doctor told you that you had cancer, would you not what him to share your options with you? Of course you would.
When I had my abortions, I did not know I had options, my ob-gyn lied to me and told me that it was just a blood mass and in 10 minutes I would be as good as new. I guess he knew better.?
Anna go to 1-800-395-help. That is the option line to find a Care Net Pregnancy center near you. If you or someone you know is looking for help.Posted by: Pati Adams at April 6, 2010 11:25 PM
Anyway, Anna, as I said, my door is open to you if you want to talk about anything.
Listen to what Pati has posted here. She is a post-abortive woman. She has made the choice you are considering, and her life was never the same. Others here have made that choice as well. They do not speak as women who think they are somehow better than you or smarter, but they do speak from experience, and they care about you and your unborn baby. They share their stories because they care about women, not because they want to take away their choices. They want to save women from a life of regret.
Just know that people here do care, and it *is* about you. Take care, Anna.Posted by: Kel at April 6, 2010 11:25 PM
Anna, we are not here to judge, but to love you where you are. I have talked to so many girls that decided to have the abortion even after they talked to me, I still love them where they are. The choice is always theirs.Posted by: Pati Adams at April 6, 2010 11:31 PM
"i don't think its right to tell people what choices to make is all"
You do that when you support laws against people's choices to murder, rape, steal, kidnap, assault, other human beings.
If abortion is murder, and it infringes on others' rights, then it's a choice that ought to be opposed period.
To claim that you don't believe it is right to tell people what choices to make is meaningless, since you yourself probably don't hold to that yourself, unless you say we should have no laws telling people to choose not to murder, rape, steal, etc.Posted by: Punisher at April 6, 2010 11:33 PM
The link you provided - pregnancy options.info - poses the following bizarre question to women:
"Is this the right time for me to bring a new life into the world through my body?"
As opposed to...?
Someone else's body?
Anna, I will be praying for you!Posted by: Pati Adams at April 6, 2010 11:39 PM
I think the "opposed to" is not bringing a new life into the world. The "through my body" part is just, well, how reproduction happens.Posted by: KushielsMoon at April 6, 2010 11:41 PM
"Free speech for me, but not for thee."
It's certainly not as though there have never been pro-choice advertisements in those subways...Posted by: bmmg39 at April 6, 2010 11:44 PM
Anna, I forgot to include my e-mail if you ever need someone to talk to: email@example.com. I would just like to let you know that you have options out there, whatever your situation may be and we're here to speak from experience and to help you.Posted by: Rachael C. at April 7, 2010 12:21 AM
Another good, unbiased accurate pregnancy options workbook, which features information on pregnancy options, including medical and surgical abortion, pregnancy decision-making, adoption, childbirth, parenting, etc can be found at: http://choicetolivewith.com/yourchoice.html
Anna, don't know if it helps but I think most mothers have had an unplanned pregnancy. Me included and I was asked to have an abortion. I was also in a very difficult position. Actually when to think of it, it made no sense to continue with my pregnancy and have my son. But I did, and things worked out. People are there to help, if you let them. Sometimes when I hug him, I think of how close he came to being killed and I cry. If you want to know details you can write to me at firstname.lastname@example.org. HugsPosted by: chantal at April 7, 2010 12:36 AM
Anna, I have been reading the comments and would like to provide my assistance as well if you need it. My email is email@example.com if you feel like there is anything that you need.
My prayers are with you. God bless you.Posted by: segamon at April 7, 2010 12:43 AM
God loves you. He loves the baby He allowed to be conceived inside of you. What is happening to you does not terrify God nor is He confused by it. He already has a plan for success if you will just trust Him.
Please keep the baby, all will be well for God knows the number of hairs on your head and He cares for you.
God loves you so much sweet, sweet child of His.
Please don't judge Anna or challenge her political views right now, she needs our support.Posted by: Rachael C. at April 7, 2010 2:15 AM
Anna - I think you should go an watch a video of an abortion on youtube and then make your decision. Should you choose abortion, you really should be fully educated on it beforehand. It would be pretty devastating to see what abortion is after the fact.
As for the comments on PETA, I would disagree. They are doing what they are doing because there are horrible abuses in the farming and fur industries. I personally don't feel sorry for the farmers that torture animals to make an extra buck. I find that a lot of people don't want to know how their food is treated before they get it...just like many people who are pro-choice don't want to know about the realities of abortion. Not sure why pro lifers and peta are usually on two different political sides. I think it boils down to thinking of someone or something besides yourself on both fronts.
Anna, welcome. Thanks, all, for supporting Anna and offering her help. We're all rooting for you and your baby, Anna. Our community here will help any way we can. I'll even host a blog baby shower for you on down the road to help you get what you need.
I don't know how old you are, Anna, but you might also consider placing your baby for adoption, like Juno, so you can carry on with your life's plans knowing your baby is in a good, 2-parent home. Adoptions are so different these days. You can pick the parents to raise your baby based on your priorities and can maintain contact.
If you think it would help to get away from home for awhile, we can also help. I live a couple hours from you and have a spare bedroom. You're welcome here.
God speed, Anna. I've been where you are. Lots of us here totally understand where your head is at right now. We're praying.Posted by: Jill Stanek at April 7, 2010 7:30 AM
Kushie, I just want to say I appreciate your tone lately here. I know we're on different sides (right now... :) but I'm glad you drop by to talk, and I've noticed your civility. Thanks.Posted by: Jill Stanek at April 7, 2010 7:33 AM
I wrongly assumed you were a troll last night and I apologize for that. Please forgive me.
You can email me firstname.lastname@example.org
I will give you my cell phone # and also the number of a post abortive friend in Iowa. I will talk to you as long as you need to today. I will offer you all of the help and support I wanted for myself before my abortion almost 20 years ago.
Please know there are people right here, right now that care about you and your baby. We will do whatever we can! You are not alone! You are a mother and your child is growing! You can google fetal development and see what your child looks like right now.
If you are in a situation that is not safe for you I will get you to a safe place.
This is my abortion story
Praying for you today, Anna.Posted by: carla at April 7, 2010 7:34 AM
jenny makes some good points about PETA in comparison to abortion. People turn a blind eye to the abuse of factory farm animals because they want the convenience of buying cheap meat at the grocery store. If they started to research the abuse or think about it, they'd feel guilty and have to do something about it. It costs more money to buy meat and diary from small ethical farms that treat their animals well and let them graze each day eating a natural diet of grass instead of pumping them full of corn, antibiotics and growth hormones. So, the majority of society turns a blind eye to this and deadens their conscience; they pretend it's not really so bad. Same goes for those who are on the fence about abortion and/or prochoice without any experience. They turn a blind eye to the abuse because they don't want to feel guilty about it; they don't want to have to speak out against it; and they don't want to let go of the "convenience" of that option should they ever experience an unwanted pregnancy.Posted by: Bekah Ferguson at April 7, 2010 7:53 AM
Anna: You are not dumb, and you can still be the child that's going places. (I take it from that statement that your parents are very proud of your intelligence/accomplishments and have some big hopes for you.) Right now, you have a very little human being growing inside of you. He or she needs you to take good physical care of both of you.
Several months back on this site, there was a post about Kourtney Kardashian being pregnant unexpectedly. She told a magazine that her doctor said - I'm paraphrasing here - "If you don't have the baby, you may regret it, but if you do have the baby, you'll never regret it."
Babies, born and unborn, are very precious little people. If you want to raise the baby, there are lots of people who would love to help you with that. If you want to have the baby adopted, there are thousands of couples who can't have their own babies and would be eternally grateful for the chance to raise the one that's growing inside of you right now. You can arrange an adoption so that the baby's adoptive parents will send you pictures and updates about the child, if that's what you want.
The daughter of a friend of my family's was raped by a stranger; she and some friends went camping, and while her friends were away from the campsite someone forced his way into her tent and raped her. She found out afterwards that she was pregnant. Even though it was extremely difficult, she gave birth to a baby boy, who was then adopted by her aunt and uncle.
I don't know where you are in your education, but when I graduated from college, there was one girl who came on stage to accept her diploma and was carrying the most beautiful little baby girl with her. Don't ever let anyone tell you that having a baby is going to ruin your life. They are absolutely wrong, and they are underestimating the inner strength you have.
I hope with every fiber of my being that you don't have an abortion. Regardless of whether you decide to raise the baby or have the baby adopted, I volunteer to make you a baby blanket. (I'm a law student with no money, but I can knit, anyway.) Comment on this post once you've picked colors and I'll figure out how to give you my e-mail address. (I don't want to post it right here in case I get bombarded by mail from trolls.)Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 8:07 AM
I am an adoptive mother with one open and one semi-open adoption. This means that our two birthmoms are a part of our two children's lives to whatever degree they wish to be. They get pictures and updates. One of our birthmoms comes over to our house and has a little playdate with the kids several times a year. Both have our phone numbers and know that they can call us. Adoption can be a great blessing for everyone in the "adoption triad"--that is birthparents, adoptive parents, and child. It is not easy, and not the perfect situation for everyone, but it can be great.
You can read more about my experiences in a real-life adoptive family on my blog (follow the link). Although I don't write regularly anymore it might help you understand more about adoption to read over my experiences over the two years that I did write. Click on the "adoption" tab on the side to get the relevant posts.
Please consider adoption alongside the choice to parent your lovely child. Do not be afraid to contact an adoption agency for more information and free counselling. The law prohibits any coercion regarding adoption, and the social workers are amazing, compassionate and knowledgeable. I have worked with Sunny Ridge Family Center here in IL and have only positive things to say about the way they helped our family and also our birthmoms.
Best of luck to you in this difficult time. I had an unplanned pregnancy too and it is easy to freak out! But, remember that you have nine months to come up with a plan, nine months to find the resources that you need and nine months to find the strength within you. It will come if you trust yourself and give yourself time.Posted by: Erin Howard at April 7, 2010 8:23 AM
Commenting on the topic of the post: This whole "trust women" thing is ridiculous because it assumes that women have some magical ability that allows them to always make the right decision. A lot of the time, women who have abortions feel like they don't have any other option, not as though they're making a "free choice." Taking it outside of the context of abortion, women make wrong decisons all the time. Women marry the wrong men, dump the wrong boyfriends, pick the wrong career paths, wear the wrong shoes. I should have gone to bed earlier last night.
"Trust women," in this context, means "Don't offer your own opinion about anything we do, except if you agree with us." Sorry, that's not how the world works. I'm not surprised in the slightest that these ads got defaced. When I was trying to start a pro-life group back in college, people stole and vandalized my signs and I eventually quit because although there were people interested in joining the group, I felt like I had no support in figuring out the logistics. That's what some pro-choicers want to do - make women who don't support abortion feel alone and isolated.
I get so angry at the myth that unexpectedly pregnant young women won't be able to fulfill their educational dreams unless they have abortions. Look at Bristol Palin. Last I heard, she and her baby were sharing a room at her parents' house and she was getting up early in the morning to go to work, but she has a baby and she's in college. She graduated from high school on time. That's because she has the support of her family. Some pro-choicers want to make young women feel as though they don't have a choice.Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 8:24 AM
Jenny and Bekah:
PETA was brought up as an example of taking things too far, i.e as when the ends justifies the means. Perhaps you are unaware of some their members illegal activities in destroying private property to advance their agenda. Is it right for these members to engage in those activities? It is in this context that PETA was brought up, just as with the destruction of pro-life signs where enthusiasts for a cause cross over the line.
If you want to do good things for the environment, which I as farm owner and a practitioner of sustainable agriculture certainly agree with, then seek out and support producers whose philosophies and practices are similar to your own. Do not fall prey to the extremism of fringe groups who are led by "progressives" who do not have qualms about ignoring the rights of others in their quest to advance their narrow agendas.Posted by: Jerry at April 7, 2010 9:35 AM
How exactly does the possibility that one of the women who has an abortion could potentially be someone you love make abortion any more acceptable?
I love my mom, and I love my sisters. But, if I found out that they had killed someone and gotten away with it, I would take them to task. The fact that I love them has no bearing whatsoever on how acceptable it would be for them to-for instance-accidentally hit someone with their car, killing them, and then drive off to avoid the consequences. I see so many people who ferociously call themselves "pro-choice!!!one" because their mother/sister/friend had an abortion, and they obviously are having difficulty thinking about what that really means, so when it it pointed out to them, they attack rabidly. Just because someone is dear to you doesn't make them infallible, I am sorry to say.Posted by: xalisae at April 7, 2010 9:40 AM
Anna - I too am a sidewalk counselor in the city of Champaign, Illinois. I pledge to you my help also.
We get material goods for women - food and clothes for them and their family, furniture, diapers & wipes etc. We've even helped with some bills, too.
But most of all - we pledge our friendship.
Women need to hear that they are capable and able. You can do this!
It's not that "you are not ready to be a mother" - it's that you are ALREADY a mother!
Motherhood is hard for sure - but anything worth-while is! And there is nothing more challenging or rewarding than that!
I am a mother or two girls (young women now - 23 and 16), and I can truly say that they helped me grow in so many ways.... they expanded my heart to love more. They helped me grow up. They helped me see the little things that matter - like time; like nature; like having a nutritious meal; like reading a book or playing together.
Yes - motherhood is work - but good work - work that matters.
Know that you can count on us - that you are not alone - and that you are part of our human family and we want to help.
Now the honest truth is that your baby is living right now and you have the awesome responsibility to decide if your baby continues on that path or not.
Whether you decide to raise that baby is a different and separate choice (adoption or parenting).
We are rooting for you - we think you are totally capable. and here, you have support.
We will be praying for you and your youngster.
And you can contact me also.Posted by: joyfromIllinois at April 7, 2010 9:55 AM
What about women who have had abortions and feel grief? They think they're the only ones who feel that way. They feel like freaks to grieve over a "simple surgical procedure" and a "blob of cells."
then they see these posters and it strikes a chord in their hearts. They think "I am NOT the only one who feels this way! I must not be or they wouldn't have these posters 'abortions changes you'." They start to feel that maybe someone is out there who understands the pain in their hearts.
then they see the paper slapped on there by pro-aborts "now I can go to college and fulfill my dreams" and the woman thinks "Yes, I should be happy I aborted. I got to finish college. I have a great career now. I really MUST be a freak to be crying over this abortion."
Hey, way to be supportive pro-choicers! If a woman's abortion experience doesn't fit your pro-abortion mantra then you must silence her!Posted by: Sydney M. at April 7, 2010 10:17 AM
I began my pre-requisite courses for nursing with four children... and graduated as an RN with six. Now with seven, I am a certified pediatric emergency room nurse, a certified pediatric nurse and am cross-trained in NICU, PICU, and pediatric burn nursing.
My children are my inspiration and reason for succeeding. They in no way prevent me from success in life.Posted by: Elisabeth at April 7, 2010 10:41 AM
I vandalize Planned Parenthood ads, too, except I only do it digitally:
Why don't they just come up with their OWN ads instead of defacing others, and who said a young woman who chose to have and keep her baby couldn't go to college? There are MANY that do- most are a little-or even a lot-over the age of 22 when they graduate, but they can still go!Posted by: JillR. at April 7, 2010 11:33 AM
"I see so many people who ferociously call themselves "pro-choice!!!one" because their mother/sister/friend had an abortion, and they obviously are having difficulty thinking about what that really means, so when it it pointed out to them, they attack rabidly. Just because someone is dear to you doesn't make them infallible, I am sorry to say."
Apologies for bringing up another hot-button topic on this thread, but these are probably the same people who claim that people who disapprove of homosexuality "don't really love" their gay relatives. I'm bisexual and I have no issues with homosexuality, but the logic fail of "You disapprove of something about a person, so that means you don't really love them" just makes my brain explode. They're probably also the same people who have high divorce rates because they think "Honey, you need to spend more time with our family" or "Honey, you can't keep spending this much money" means that their spouses don't really love them, boo hoo hoo.Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 12:38 PM
I don't know if you're still reading, but whatever you choose, please don't do so under pressure from other people. This should be your choice and your choice alone. Abortion, adoption, and parenting are all good candidates, as long as you're the one making the choice. Not your boyfriend, not your parents, not anti-abortion people, YOU. A lot of people here are trying to pressure you to choose adoption or parenting, and that is just plain wrong. I don't know if you have people pressuring you to have an abortion, but if you do, then that is just as wrong. No one here knows you more than you know yourself. There are people who regret abortion, adoption, and parenting. There are many others who don't. Just because some people here think that they know you more than you know yourself doesn't make them anything other than delusional.
I liked the site that KushielsMoon linked to- http://www.pregnancyoptions.info/
Best of luck to you! Feel free to email me at ReemaGirlK@Gmail.com if you'd like more information.
-To those of you who were bashing Angie Jackson for having an abortion and are now showing fake support for Anna, I'm sorry, but you're so full of crap. That isn't real love.
[Post edited by moderator]
Thank you, Jill, for commenting on my attitude. However, I'd must prefer if you spoke out against the violence of Lo against human beings. :-)Posted by: KushielsMoon at April 7, 2010 1:18 PM
-To those of you who were bashing Angie Jackson for having an abortion and are now showing fake support for Anna, I'm sorry, but you're so full of crap. That isn't real love.
[Post edited by moderator]
Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 7, 2010 1:11 PM
Ah, yes. Of course, you say that no one knows Anna better than Anna, but apparently YOU know the heart of each and every poster on here better than they do themselves.
A tidge hypocritical today, are we?Posted by: Elisabeth at April 7, 2010 1:19 PM
Thank you, Jill, for commenting on my attitude. However, I'd must prefer if you spoke out against the violence of Lo against human beings. :-)
Posted by: KushielsMoon at April 7, 2010 1:18 PM
If you posted a link I missed it...Posted by: Elisabeth at April 7, 2010 1:22 PM
Pro-Choice Gal, I don't see anyone here pressuring her into doing anything, but rather we're letting her know she has other options and resources available to her and empowering her to know that she can make it as a parent and individual. Also, because you can not read into our minds or see into our hearts, you don't know whether or not our offers to help her are sincere and I'd appreciate if you wouldn't assume so and discourage her from listening to us based on your own predjudices and biases. Also, keep in mind that many here who've commented have been in her situation and do understand what she's going through. So please, just keep your political commentary to yourself in this situation, you're not going to help matters any.Posted by: Rachael C. at April 7, 2010 1:25 PM
Anna needs support, came here looking for some and found it!
"Your choice and your choice alone."
That is exactly what I heard too. I had no idea what choice I wanted to make. I was ALONE. All alone and frightened and had no support. Did I mention I was alone?? I didn't want an abortion but didn't feel like I had any choices but that.
"I didn't want an abortion"
Of course people who don't want abortions are going to regret them if they have one anyway. The only people that should have abortions are those who want them (and yes, there are a lot of women with unwanted pregnancies who want to have abortions.)
To whoever edited the link out of my prior post- thanks for proving that antis don't really care about helping women.Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 7, 2010 1:56 PM
Oh, of course!! Now why didn't I think of that??
Those that WANT abortions are deceived that abortion is the BEST thing to do and can regret them as well.
Your hatred and bitterness are going to eat you alive PCG.Posted by: carla at April 7, 2010 2:03 PM
Judge me all you want. I'm not here because I'm interested in you. I'm here because I'm interested in providing Anna with as much help as I can.Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 7, 2010 2:06 PM
ProChoiceGal, your original post (before it was edited by a moderator) was so hypocritical, I'm surprised you didn't realize it. After warning Anna that she was apparently being "pressured" into parenting or adopting, you then proceed to provide her with a link to what? An abortion clinic! Hmmmm. In other words, "don't listen to the prolifers - here, go have an abortion." It's kind of funny in a sad way.
Prochoice loves the slogan "trust women" but I've yet to see it. It's like, oh my goodness, Anna has been exposed to the options of parenting and adoption - quick - get her to an abortion website before it's too late! Um, don't you think Anna is fully capable of making an objective decision? She knows this is a prolife website. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that the help offered here would be taking the needs of both mom and baby into consideration.
You said: "To those of you who were bashing Angie Jackson for having an abortion and are now showing fake support for Anna, I'm sorry, but you're so full of crap. That isn't real love."
Who are you to say that everyone posting here is insincere and "faking" their support? Are you God that you can read all our hearts and minds? Wow. Do you realize how arrogant you sound?
And speaking of which, if you're going to mention "real love," let's talk about that. Let's look at the way a prochoice mother loves her children. Let's see: the children she wants, she loves; the children she doesn't want, she doesn't love. Not only that, she kills the child she doesn't want/love. When you love someone on a conditional basis (i.e. what's in it for me) that's called, no brainer, "conditional love." What is real love? Real love is unconditional love.
Who here is demonstrating real love? The men and women who care not only for Anna but for her baby as well, or the trolling prochoicers who are here to promote abortion and brainwash women into loving their children on the conditional basis only of "you are wanted / you are not wanted."Posted by: Bekah Ferguson at April 7, 2010 2:14 PM
". After warning Anna that she was apparently being "pressured" into parenting or adopting, you then proceed to provide her with a link to what? An abortion clinic!"
And before that, I said "You said that you were looking for an abortion clinic. If you still are, then you can find one here" And, what? "apparently"? You mean "obviously". Look at what the antis are saying here. "Please go through your pregnancy! Please have your baby!" If someone was saying "Please have an abortion!" you'd call that pressure. It's pressure either way.
IF she's still interested in finding one. Showing a woman who wants to choose abortion how to find an abortion clinic isn't hypocritical.
Anyway, I'm done engaging you. As I said before, I'm not interested in speaking to walls. I'm interested in helping anna.Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 7, 2010 2:22 PM
Helping Anna do what exactly?Posted by: carla at April 7, 2010 3:03 PM
"This should be your choice and your choice alone."
I think what you mean is "you (the pregnant woman) are ultimately responsible for your decision, so no one can dare make me morally responsible to help you... I wash my hands of this."
Are pro-choicers ever "allowed" to voice their opinions to the pregnant woman or can they only point them to the nearest abortion clinic? Where do you draw the "choice line"?
Seems the pro-choicers "allow" women more input from family and friends towards the decision to buy a car than or choose a college than whether to abort her baby.Posted by: Janet at April 7, 2010 3:09 PM
To whoever edited the link out of my prior post- thanks for proving that antis don't really care about helping women.
Er... helping them to do what, exactly? I swear, abortion-tolerant people have this annoying penchant for refusing to finish their sentences...
Anna, we seriously do care about you. We also care about your daughter or son who's now inside you; that's why we can get... intense, when abortion (which would kill your daughter or son) is introduced.Posted by: Paladin at April 7, 2010 3:41 PM
:) You beat me to the punch, Carla...Posted by: Paladin at April 7, 2010 3:53 PM
PCG, how many women have you personally referred to maternity homes or pregnancy resource centers?
How many pro-choice sites would allow pro-life commenters to provide links to those organizations?Posted by: Kel at April 7, 2010 4:08 PM
Yeah PCG, I know plenty of women who really did want an abortion at the time they had it done. I will tell you about one of my close friends. I will share one story of many. "Cathy" had an abortion 12 years ago. Prior to this abortion, she already had 4 children. She never took a pill. She never drank a drop. She was focused and educated. Fast forward 12 yrs. Today "Cathy" takes Seroquel, Xanax bars, Ambien, and Ativan. It's rare that I ever see her, but we talk on the phone a lot. When she's not working, she's sleeping. Her weight went from 128 pounds to 200. She is plagued by night terrors, and suffers from insomnia and panic attacks. Her PAS is destroying her. I so miss the person she used to be!!!!Posted by: heather at April 7, 2010 4:12 PM
Hi, Anna. If you're still here, I strongly advise you to discard the harmful advice some people here are doling out and listen to your heart instead. I don't want to influence your decision or tell you what you should do, but you should think long and hard about the difficulties and lost opportunities you will face if you go through with this unplanned pregnancy. For example, are you aware that a majority of single mothers live below the poverty line? There are also serious complications that can arise from any pregnancy carried to full term. No matter what you do, please consult with a qualified medical professional before choosing to go through with a pregnancy. Best of wishes to you.Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:14 PM
What harmful advice, Anne? Letting a child grow in her own Momma's womb??
You do mean the lost opportunity to raise a child don't you, Anne? You lose that opportunity when you abort a growing child through abortion.
I know that you want others to abort so you can justify your own. I know because I did the same thing.
"Anyway, I'm done engaging you."
Oh, we can only hope...
ProChoiceGal might be the psychic expert on "real love," but I am the non-psychic expert on "real yarn," which makes "real baby blankets."Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 4:19 PM
Anne, in summary: "I'm going to make pregnancy sound like the big bad boogeyman while implying that I have no faith that you'll be able to be an educated, financially sound single mother."Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 4:24 PM
I posted three different links in my first comment, which is fourth from the top. Here they are again:
Posted by: carla at April 7, 2010 4:18 PM
There will be future opportunities for that, Carla. An abortion is really just a postponement of pregnancy. Years later, when she's financially and emotionally stable, there will be plenty of time to raise a family. But the alternative is a possible life of poverty for herself and her unwanted child, and having to surrender many important opportunities at self-betterment in the process. It bothers me that you are counseling this poor girl to make the mistake you didn't and keep her unwanted pregnancy, knowing full well of the hardships that entails.
And I don't know what you mean by "so you can justify [my] own." I have never had an abortion; my sister did and she has no regrets. I explained this.Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:25 PM
Why did you forget to tell Anna about the lingering psychological torment that stays with women who have had abortions?
And what about the increased risk of breast cancer?
And I hesitate to mention the spiritual damage since I don't think you even believe that those exist.
If you're going to give someone advice let it at least be the full truth.Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 7, 2010 4:27 PM
Anne, believe that BS if you want to, but many of us here have had *several* uncomplicated, healthy pregnancies. As did our mothers, aunts, sisters, and grandmothers.
We don't live in a country with a high maternal mortality rate, either, thanks to proper medical care.
I had a friend in HS who got pregnant at 14 and placed her daughter for adoption. She had no health issues.
You're right, Carla, Anne is post-abortive, so I guess that explains it.Posted by: Kel at April 7, 2010 4:30 PM
Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 4:24 PM
Way to completely misrepresent my post. It's not that I "have no faith" that she'd be able to become an educated, financially sound single mother... it's just that this is an exceedingly rare thing in the first place. She should know the risks involved in keeping an unwanted pregnancy. She should know that poverty is a huge epidemic among single mothers, and she should know that the majority of women who become pregnant before graduating college do not, in fact, ever finish college. All the emotional support and "free maternity clothes" that local charities can provide her will never even come close to the life-long financial burden that having a child entails. If your side has any interest whatsoever in being honest then you shouldn't have any problem with me explaining the bad things that come with an unwanted child.Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:30 PM
One would think that you can go on and have healthy children after an abortion. Unfortunately for many of my post abortive friends their tubes were so twisted, their PID so destructive they could never get pregnant again. The only child they would ever carry, they aborted.
An abortion is the killing of an innocent human child. Silly girl.
Anna has been offered so much more than ABORTION by those on this thread. Go back and read.
How is abortion THE BEST WE HAVE TO OFFER WOMEN??
Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 7, 2010 4:27 PM
These things are propaganda. They are not reality. They're tactics designed to discourage women from exercising their right to choose by explicitly lying to them.Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:33 PM
"There will be future opportunities for that, Carla."
There may or there may not be. Some women have an abortion and then ten children; some women have an abortion and can't get pregnant again.
"An abortion is really just a postponement of pregnancy."
Abortion kills a human being. That human being, with his and her own set of DNA and own beating heart, doesn't magically return to the womb when the mother is ready.
"But the alternative is a possible life of poverty for herself and her unwanted child, and having to surrender many important opportunities at self-betterment in the process."
Anna doesn't "have to surrender" any opportunities. Alter, postpone, take longer to do, perhaps. But last I checked, colleges and universities were still accepting single mothers.
"It bothers me that you are counseling this poor girl to make the mistake you didn't and keep her unwanted pregnancy, knowing full well of the hardships that entails."
Don't you DARE say that Carla did the right thing in having an abortion. She's had to deal with a lot of pain and grief and here you are, telling her it was all the right thing to do. I guess her feelings are just silly, then, right? If Carla was "smart" or "realistic," she'd see the "truth." Bullshit.
"I have never had an abortion; my sister did and she has no regrets. I explained this."
I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your niece or nephew. Your sister may have no regrets at the moment, but that doesn't mean she always will. Even if she always does, your sister concieved a niece or nephew that you never got to meet or love.Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 4:34 PM
"There will be future opportunities for that, Carla. An abortion is really just a postponement of pregnancy......
Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:25 PM
Your statememt is a lie.
Abortion is not just a postponement of a pregnancy, it's the termination of a pregnancy.
More evidence that yoo DO NOT BELIEVE that the child in the womb is human or a person.
So, when you make comments that can affect the life or death outcome of an unborn child at least be accurate and truthful.Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 7, 2010 4:34 PM
"How is abortion THE BEST WE HAVE TO OFFER WOMEN??"
It isn't the best. The best would be to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place by encouraging proper and responsible usage of birth control (something I've noticed many anti-choicers also have a problem with). But it's not right to punish someone if they mess up by telling them they're screwed and that they have no choice but to carry an unwanted pregnancy. That is cruelty.Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:36 PM
The best we offer women is help and hope and support. Unwanted is not a condition of a child but an attitude of adults. Well, an attitude of Anne, I guess.
Little late to tell Anna she should have been on the pill dontcha think??
She needs help now and so far all I have heard from you and PCG are the same lies and half truths I was told before I had my first child killed.
Who told Anna she was screwed?? Oh. That was you as well.Posted by: carla at April 7, 2010 4:40 PM
If you are still reading, Anna, I would like to say I am thankful every day that my mother chose life for me. I was conceived in rape, about as unplanned and unwanted as a person can possibly be. I am thankful my mother realized that my life was not disposable. I am thankful I was born at a time when society, through law, protected me. I am thankful the pain of her trauma was eased by my birth. I am thankful I was adopted, and now I am alive and well and, because of her decision, have been able to become a father to 3 great boys.
Please understand and receive the pro-life comments here for what they are: informative, encouraging and based on a profound respect for your life and your baby's. There is no pressure behind the regretful post abortive stories and messages of hope, only sincere offers of physical and emotional assistance.
Welcome to the world of pro-life support, love, compassion and options.
I hope you can become attached to and fall in love with your baby.
Every Life Matters
"Hi, Anna. If you're still here, I strongly advise you to discard the harmful advice some people here are doling out and listen to your heart instead."
yeah, well if it's her heart she's gonna listen to then it will tell her that she has a baby inside her and that she's a mother now. Mother's protect their babies?
are you aware that a majority of single mothers live below the poverty line?
adoption. Ever heard of that? Anna does not need to be a single mother or do you believe that adoption is worse than abortion?
"There are also serious complications that can arise from any pregnancy carried to full term.
Do YOU know what the rate of breast cancer is for a first pregnancy aborted? Ever checked? Do some research.
An abortion is really just a postponement of pregnancy.
NO. abortion is the death of the baby. Every abortion kills a living human baby.
This is why we prolifers have NO respect for abortion advocates. At the very least Anne, please be honest. Your lies are not helping Anna and show a lack of love for her. When you love a person, you speak the truth no matter what.Posted by: angel at April 7, 2010 4:40 PM
We're the ones saying, "It will be tough, but we have faith you can do it." You, Anne, are the one who's trying to be discouraging. You have no respect for anyone's feelings of grief or loss over abortion. You think it's all a bunch of lies pro-lifers make up. Tell that to the women who have spent months, years, and decades mourning their aborted children.Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 4:42 PM
"There may or there may not be. Some women have an abortion and then ten children; some women have an abortion and can't get pregnant again."
Under normal circumstances (99.9% of the time) abortion is perfectly healthy and a woman's reproductive abilities are not in any way, shape or form harmed.
"Anna doesn't "have to surrender" any opportunities. Alter, postpone, take longer to do, perhaps. But last I checked, colleges and universities were still accepting single mothers."
And last I checked, college takes both time and money, both of which are things a new single mother will find herself in very short supply of.
"Don't you DARE say that Carla did the right thing in having an abortion. She's had to deal with a lot of pain and grief and here you are, telling her it was all the right thing to do. I guess her feelings are just silly, then, right?"
Frankly, I think she did make the right choice, whether she wants to beat herself up over it or not. All the "pain and grief" she is suffering from now is something she's forcing herself to experience; that too, is a choice.
"I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your niece or nephew. Your sister may have no regrets at the moment, but that doesn't mean she always will. Even if she always does, your sister concieved a niece or nephew that you never got to meet or love."
Regardless, it was my sister's body, not mine.Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:42 PM
Anne does have a point about the stats. I am in no way supportive of abortion because I believe it ends the life of a human being - but for a single mom facing an unplanned pregnancy, she might want to seriously consider adoption rather than parenting.Posted by: Bekah Ferguson at April 7, 2010 4:45 PM
"The best we offer women is help and hope and support."
Yeah? That and 50 cents will buy you a Coke.
"She needs help now and so far all I have heard from you and PCG are the same lies and half truths I was told before I had my first child killed."
You have a strange sense of what "help" is. Apparently pretending that potential extreme hardships simply don't exist and shouldn't be a factor in deciding whether to keep her pregnancy or not is your idea of "help".
"Who told Anna she was screwed?? Oh. That was you as well."
Hey, maybe she has extremely wealthy parents who are capable and willing of providing her and her baby a comfortable life. I guess in those fortunate circumstances, nobody would be "screwed."
"You have no respect for anyone's feelings of grief or loss over abortion. You think it's all a bunch of lies pro-lifers make up. Tell that to the women who have spent months, years, and decades mourning their aborted children."
This only happens when they buy into the lie that abortion is murder. That's part of why I consider this little movement of yours so destructive--it has the potential to seriously harm women emotionally.Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:49 PM
I do not "beat myself up over it" I am not "suffering" I grieve. I grieve for my daughter who would be 19 years old THIS MONTH, Anne. Do you even comprehend what I am saying? My grief is my choice? I am forcing myself to experience it? You are hilarious and pathetic at the same time.
You are glad my daughter died in an abortion clinic on September 5th, 1990?? You think I did the right thing by allowing the death of my child??
I thought is was you not your sister. My apologies.Posted by: carla at April 7, 2010 4:50 PM
Wow, a medical first! Anne's sister's body had two different sets of DNA and two beating hearts!Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 4:51 PM
This only happens when they buy into the lie that abortion is murder. That's part of why I consider this little movement of yours so destructive--it has the potential to seriously harm women emotionally.
Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:49 PM
you show a great ignorance of prenatal development.
Maybe it's YOU who's bought the lie. You have to tell yourself that it's not a baby you're killing. It's only tissue. Or maybe that your rights trump the baby's.
if you have sex you ought to know that sex makes babies.
If you don't want a baby Anne, don't have sex.
Don't make the baby pay for your mistake with his/her life.
That's really really immature and just lame.
It makes me cry, cry, cry to read all the love and generosity posted here.
Twenty-three years ago I found myself pregnant. I was in my late 20s. The father was the friend of a friend. He never checked in with me after that night to see how I was. That was the first letdown--the father didn't care about me. I told a sister, then a friend, then another friend, then a woman who had done an internship at a local women's health clinic. At her suggestion I went there for a second pregnancy test. Confirmed. Out of the six people who knew I was pregnant, not one person ever referred to the being developing in my womb as a baby. Not one person talked to me about options or offered to help me in any way. My two Catholic friends are the ones who went with me to get the abortion.
For years I thought I was fine, even though I wasn't. I had lots of health problems. I got married to one of the friends who went with me to the abortion clinic. I tried for ten years to get pregnant but couldn't. My marriage ended. I grew increasingly depressed and thought more and more about ending my life.
Finally, a couple of years ago, a new friend convinced me to attend a Rachel's Vineyard retreat. The healing of my life began.
If even one person had had the courage to tell me the truth those many years ago, I would have been saved decades of grief and would not have lost my opportunity to be a mom. Although I forgive the people involved in my situation, I have very little respect for those who today find fault with and ridicule people who speak the truth in love to pregnant women who are considering abortion. If one person had done that for me, they would have been my hero (and my child's hero, and my child's children's hero) for eternity!
Virtual hugs to all of you truth-speakers!Posted by: Alice at April 7, 2010 4:54 PM
Posted by: carla at April 7, 2010 4:50 PM
Am I "glad" you had an abortion? I'm neutral. It's your body and your life. I'm glad you had the right to make that choice for yourself, and I'm sad that you would now work to take away that choice from other women.Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:54 PM
lots of hugs to you Alice!
you are a courageous woman to speak out.
Too bad the father didn't man up to what had happened. :(Posted by: angel at April 7, 2010 4:56 PM
You're an apathetic nihilist.
Alice, I'm so glad you've been able to heal. Virtual hugs to you too.Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 5:01 PM
The stats on suicide for post-abortive mothers:
3x's higher than a woman who opts to give birth.
I had no home, no job, and my daughter's father told me he'd kill himself if I didn't have an abortion. But my daughter is 7 years old now, and SHE'S glad to be alive, even if she doesn't know just how close it came to her not being born. Please consider the other human life-the life of your child-when thinking about abortion. I know it seems unreal right now, it did for me too at the time, but that baby growing inside you is just as real and alive as you are.Posted by: xalisae at April 7, 2010 5:02 PM
Thanks much, Angel.
"It's your choice and yours alone" is the most lonely-making sentence in the whole world. In my view, it's not empowering at all but a form of abandonment.Posted by: Alice at April 7, 2010 5:02 PM
Am I "glad" you had an abortion? I'm neutral. It's your body and your life. I'm glad you had the right to make that choice for yourself, and I'm sad that you would now work to take away that choice from other women.
Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:54 PM
except that Carla really couldn't make a "choice" because she wasn't given all the facts she needed to make an informed choice
that seems to be a big problem Anne.
PP and other abortion providers are no giving women the facts they need to make a real choice
I wonder why that is?Posted by: angel at April 7, 2010 5:03 PM
"except that Carla really couldn't make a "choice" because she wasn't given all the facts she needed to make an informed choice"
Really? If Carla didn't have all the facts, whose fault is that?Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 5:08 PM
"In my view, it's not empowering at all but a form of abandonment."
Being able to make choices for yourself is abandonment? I didn't mean that we can't help women through this. I meant that we shouldn't make the choices for her.
But you probably knew that already..Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 7, 2010 5:11 PM
"Really? If Carla didn't have all the facts, whose fault is that?"
Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 5:08 PM
Easy. The abortion industry and pro-choicers who don't want the facts to be told.Posted by: Janet at April 7, 2010 5:12 PM
Really? If Carla didn't have all the facts, whose fault is that?
Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 5:08 PM
well Anne that depends doesn't it.
If a mother goes into a clinic for any procedure, she expects to be TOLD what the risks are doesn't she?
My daughter just had a CT scan on her head yesterday. We were given sheets about the procedure including any risks involved.
I wonder what risks Carla was told about abortion?
Was she told about the increased chance of miscarriage and low weight of subsequent babies?
Was she told about the risk of breast cancer?
Was she told about the risks to her mental health?
What was she told about the development of her baby at the time of the abortion?
I wonder, Anne?
And way to blame the problem on the patient?
Do we do that with other medical procedures?
Just wondering while we are playing the blame game here?
"Being able to make choices for yourself is abandonment? I didn't mean that we can't help women through this. I meant that we shouldn't make the choices for her."
So you mean to say if we make laws forbidding people to choose certain things that would mean we make choices for them and thus are anti-choices?
In case you forgot, murdering abortion doctors is a CHOICE. Sexually assaulting someone is a CHOICE.
By your reasoning, if we have laws against these, we are being anti-choices for making choices for those thugs rather than let them make choices to do what they want to do!
Just because it is a CHOICE does not mean we should sanction it legally. Those two examples of heinous CHOICES are perfect illustrations of why.
Let's say Anna is not pregnant but she just has a baby but is in circumstances that lead her to considering killing her infant. Would you now be upset if folks here are trying to encourage her not to make the choice to kill her newborn baby?
After all, it's a choice, and after all by your logic, we are making choices for her rather than letting let her choose.
And let me remind you one other thing: us posting to Anna and giving us our take is a CHOICE as well, a choice you seem to want to deny us.
So be apologies if we say the claim of your side of the issue is all about choices is a tad disingenous.Posted by: Punisher at April 7, 2010 5:17 PM
"Really? If Carla didn't have all the facts, whose fault is that?"
Posted by: Punisher
at April 7, 2010 5:19 PM
Rich given you spew nonsense all the time without having all the facts so you can slash and burn folks here.
Yes, "It's your choice and yours alone" is a form of abandonment in the case of pregnancy because it is the refusal to protect a woman in crisis from a profoundly damaging emotional, physical, and moral danger. The choice is to kill or not kill one's own developing child. Any way you slice it, that's the truth. When that choice was given to me, I made the biggest mistake of my life. And when my friends accepted it as a choice and didn't tell me the truth and offer me support, they abandoned me to my awful choice. It should never have been framed as a choice to any of us. We should have all, together, taken responsibility for the life of that child.Posted by: Alice at April 7, 2010 5:36 PM
"except that Carla really couldn't make a "choice" because she wasn't given all the facts she needed to make an informed choice"
Really? If Carla didn't have all the facts, whose fault is that?
Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 5:08 PM
Way to blame the victim. And pro-lifers are accused of having the attitude of rapists.Posted by: Elisabeth at April 7, 2010 5:40 PM
A lot of people here are trying to pressure you to choose adoption or parenting, and that is just plain wrong. Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 7, 2010 1:11 PM
Nothing can change the fact that Anna is a mother. If she aborts, she becomes mother of a dead child. If she relinquishes the child for adoption or raises him/her herself, she remains mother of a living child. Only in a twisted world is it "wrong" to urge a mother to consider the welfare of her child.
discard the harmful advice some people here are doling out and listen to your heart instead. Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 4:14 PM
What a nice demonstration of the "pro-choice" misnomer. If you support Anna's right to choose, why attempt to dissuade her from listening to a variety of viewpoints? She did, after all, comment on a pro-life blog. Erin is an adoptive mom. Jim and I are adoptees. Carla and others are post-abortive. We are all reflections of choices women made after finding themselves pregnant under difficult circumstances. When you try to drown out our voices, you lend credence to the view that the only choice "pro-choicers" truly support is the one that lights up the cash register at the local abortion mill.Posted by: Fed Up at April 7, 2010 5:42 PM
Your thinking is that of an ideologue no different than that of a radical Muslim extremist. I don't mean to be harsh here, however, I'm trying to help you see the depth of your self-deception. Further, I do not think or want to imply that you approve of what radical Muslim extremists do. However, there really is no difference in that innocents are victimized.
So please hear me out as my only goal is to help you see, from outside of yourself, your faulty way of thinking and perhaps, just perhaps, change.
A radical Muslim extremist can go on an internet site and in full view of the world exclaim that infidels must be slaughtered, and even proceed to chop an unbelievers head off feeling fully justified because of their strong conviction that their way is the right way, etc.
Now I know that you know that these people are absolutely wrong. But, have you ever thought about what made these people get to a point where they actually believed they were doing the right thing? Who taught them? With what inner sense of self-preservation or self-righteousness did this message of hate connect and blossom into a full blown belief system? What did they gain sub-consciously by buying into the lie or by "drinking the kool-aid" as is said today? What was the "pay-off"? Perhaps a sense that they were defending others? Standing up for themselves? What?
What has been said to you, what has happened to you, and how have those things convinced you enough to cause you to now believe that it's just a "clump of cells" and not a human being worthy of nurture and protection?
We know by instinct that the murder of innocent human beings is wrong. In fact, this is what every honest and uncorrupted human heart would bear witness to.
So, in order for our minds to go against what our hearts say, we either have been influenced and convinced by a lie or have intentionally believed a lie seeing in that lie some personal gain or benefit that we think results in the preservation of self and therefore, others? We may not have believed or known it was a lie, however, isn't that the very nature of a lie? To hide itself from itself?
What child would ever think that decapitating a fellow human being is a good thing? What child, knowing that a baby is growing in a womb, would ever think of killing that child? What child would not be horrified at the murder of a puppy? What child would not shriek in horror while witnessing an abortion? If murder and abortion is not wrong then why do we parents protect them from seeing such things.
Would we keep our child from viewing videos or photos of a baby growing in a womb or actually witnessing a live birth? The answer is NO, NO, and NO. Why? Because the life process and birth are instinctively good and abortion is instinctively evil. We have to go to great effort to convince ourselves that abortion isn't evil. We convince ourselves that "it's not a baby", "it's a clump of cells", "it isn't human", It's not a person", which are patently ridiculous conclusions based on scientific evidence alone. To believe that abortion is right is not our normal default position. We must go through and allow our minds to be twisted in all kinds of obtuse and illogical ways to become pro-choice.
So, the process that causes one to become a radical Muslim extremist and a pro-abortionist is not different, the results are the same: An innocent person is killed because the false ideology of a lie has power. Lies are powerful but they are not infinitely powerful. Eventually the truth always supplants the lie. You see this every day all around you.
A human being's embrace of abortion philosophy represents a darkness and blindness of soul which is difficult to fathom. It is difficult to understand. It's like witnessing a train or plane crash wreckage and trying to make sense of it. Our hearts cry out, "this is a disaster and who can understand why it happened"! We can recover from the deception, however, it does take some courage, an open mind, an enlightenment of soul, and a realization that as creatures created in the image of the Creator, we were made to love.
I suggest that you forget the "choice" ideology for just a second and let go of the leverage which that ideology has had over you.
Ask your heart, "is this a human being, in this a life, is this a person"? I really believe if you engage in this in a true heartfelt self-examination, you can do nothing but change.
I think this is true for all pro-choicers.Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 7, 2010 5:43 PM
I challenge Anne's "99.9% perfectly healthy" BS. With a 2 to 5 % chance of being rendered sterile by a suction abortion, that means of the 40 women and girls I see on two Saturdays at PP, odds are 1 or 2 of them leave behind the only child they'll ever conceive. 2 to 3 % of women and girls can anticipate a perforated uterus. 1%, cervical lacerations. That's not even taking into account the increased risk for future life-threatening ectopic pregnancies, premature births and miscarriages. Not even taking into account the breast cancer risks, your 99.9% is preposterous.
I was 20, single, far from home and alone when I learned I was pregnant, literally mere hours from a deployment that required I inform my Army superiors of my pregnancy immediately. They pressured me to abort (to be deployable), complete with a post-abortive officer who pressured me to do the same as she had done 13 years earlier. The father said, "Abort" and I was terrified to tell my family. Thank God my pro-life mother made sure we knew about fetal development--I knew what an abortion did to these little ones and no matter how ugly the situation got, I was the only one who could protect my daughter from all who wanted her dead. Where are those people now? Certainly not caring about my well-being!
I doubt Anna would read this far, but for anyone else, I submit that true character develops or is revealed not in the absence of difficulty, but in how we deal with that adversity. My daughter didn't deserve to die because of my poor choices, adding another disastrous "choice" to those wouldn't undo the first ones. I feared what my family would say, but guess what? A grandbaby is an incredible gift. A niece, a nephew, a cousin to your siblings' children...all wonderful.
For the "self-betterment" portion of the PC drivel, I say that my future was not ruined because of my daughter, I went on after the Army to the University and we made it work. She motivates me to be a better person. She was the drive behind my studies and my current work. As Victor Borge used to like to close his show: "I thank my parents for making this night possible, and my children, for making it necessary!"
In sidewalk counseling, I will sometimes tell the young women, "Whoever in your life is telling you you can't have this baby is underestimating you and your abilities." Women are strong. Women overcome difficult and even tragic situations. And they don't have to put their children to death to do it.Posted by: klynn73 at April 7, 2010 5:48 PM
Wow. "Women are strong. Women overcome difficult and even tragic situations. And they don't have to put their children to death to do it." That may be the most pro-woman/pro-child statement I've ever read, klynn!
And Phil... wow too. That was truly amazing!
You two break my heart and heal it at the same time.
Pro-choice rhetoric is like candy next to this. Candy laced with cyanide.
Wow klynn73, what a story!
I am privleged and humbled to read it.
God bless you for having the courage to keep your baby.
That may be the most pro-woman/pro-child statement I've ever read, klynn! Posted by: Alice at April 7, 2010 6:01 PM
Yes, thank you, Klynn. Maybe Jill will consider your words for QOTD.
I am privleged and humbled to read it. God bless you for having the courage to keep your baby. Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 7, 2010 6:01 PM
Well said. My sentiments exactly.Posted by: Fed Up at April 7, 2010 6:09 PM
I find it ironic that between klynn73 and myself, our two children who were ripe candidates for "choicing" were both girls. Abortion hurts women. Abortion kills women.Posted by: xalisae at April 7, 2010 6:11 PM
Posted by: Anne at April 7, 2010 5:08 PM
Anne - you're assuming with attribution of "fault" that Carla was not fully informed due to her own negligence. While it's true it can occur, it's entirely possible to have information withheld from you when it conflicts with the interest of others who have a profit motive.
I underwent hernia surgery and did considerable research beforehand, but in my discussions with my surgeon he did not reveal things that would have conflicted with his interest in keeping me as a patient. I elected one kind of surgery - what was performed was another. The surgery he performed was faster (thus less expensive) for him. He could schedule 4 surgeries (which he did) in the same space of time it would have taken to perform 1 surgery - the kind I had requested.
He later admitted to me his discomfort with performing the lathroscopic repair I thought I was going to get. Turns out it's far more dangerous than the plug style he did.
So to get back to your comment - when information is withheld that would have influenced your decision, and it runs counter to the interests of the one providing the service, then that's a moral and ethical breach, and not the fault of the patient.Posted by: Chris Arsenault at April 7, 2010 6:23 PM
I've read your story, too, X, and can definitely relate. Our girls are more voices to speak out for the unborn. Alice, thanks, I just wish I were able to communicate to the abortion-bound women that they do have the strength to get through what are really just temporary circumstances, their children are already here. Phil & FedUp, thanks for the 'God bless you'--He did! One adoring baby smile makes up for innumerable hardships :) That 'baby' is 15 now & wants help with factoring algebraic equations, but I don't want to give the proaborts any added ammunition (apologies to Mr. Bambino who'd perhaps consider algebra a plus).Posted by: klynn73 at April 7, 2010 6:33 PM
"Our girls are more voices to speak out for the unborn."
Or maybe for women's rights? I was raised by anti-choice parents. I was only an anti for a little while ;)Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 7, 2010 6:42 PM
Posted by: klynn73 at April 7, 2010 5:48 PM
Excellent comments klynn!
Phil - yours is also an exceptional post.Posted by: Chris Arsenault at April 7, 2010 6:44 PM
I have great sympathy for those pro-abortion, pro-choicers who are afraid to admit that abortion is very, very wrong.
Why do I have sympathy? Because to be able to admit that what one has done, what one has believed, what one has promoted is abhorrently evil leaves one quite vulnerable. Vulnerable to guilt, self-condemnation, self-hate, etc. So refusing to embrace the pro-life position is actually an expression of self-preservation upon discovering that it is the only true position. Kind of like having to admit to yourself that the plane is crashing, knowing you don't have a parachute, deciding whether or not to jump out. But you do have a prachute......read on.
It is very natural to want to protect oneself from pain and hurt. In fact, we go to great lengths, even self-deception and other-deception, in order to run and hide from the pain of admitting who we really are. The pro-abortion movement is a movement in "great pain and fear", despite the facades and slogans they try to camouflage it with.
It is everywhere evident on this site and we pro-lifers, as restrainers of evil, need to adopt this mindset of compassion for those that are really suffering as a result of their own self-inflicted deception.
The pro-abortion predicament is not necessarily a permanent one and it need not be nor remain this way. All of us have done exceedingly evil things and have escaped the fear, the guilt and death rants that play in our heads associated with such things.
As electricity flows through wire governed by laws of conductivity, resistivity, voltage, current and power, so to, in order for us to go from being a person in bondage to a person free, the law of "the pain of change" must be obeyed.
Jesus walked it and showed us the way except that He bore all the pain. Lucky us.
As for me, what allowed me and allows me to become free from the guilt and condemnation of just being human, is realizing how much Jesus Christ loves me and continues to love me despite all my stumbling and falling along the path to life.
He bids me to keep walking and cheering me on shouting, "don't be afraid, I am for you and I forgive you". The challenge for me is to believe what He is saying. Am I really forgiven, does He really love me, etc., etc.?
Christ is the answer to all our guilt, all our shame, and all our fear. When you understand this you will truly become free to be who God created you to be, and you will become pro-life.
So, there is a way out and His name is Jesus Christ. Talk to Him, He's waiting with open arms.Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 7, 2010 6:49 PM
"Or maybe for women's rights?"
At the expense of unborn women's rights. Abortion is the biggest killer of women worldwide.
Ever heard of sex selection abortions?Posted by: Punisher at April 7, 2010 6:50 PM
Amen, klynn and Phil!! :)
You can think whatever you want about me, call me whatever you want and blame me for falling for the omissions and lies of the abortion industry. I was told nothing about risks, nothing about fetal development except a filmstrip about a bunch of red circles.(I was 10 weeks along)
It was my fault that I felt pressured to abort and believed their lies? Whatevs, Anne.
Proaborts are the compassionate ones. Yeah. Right.
Posted by: carla
at April 7, 2010 6:51 PM
Did Anne get sent to the ban-cipal's office?
Anyone who thinks "women's rights" should involve human beings dismembered in the womb needs to really think about what they want women to become. I wouldn't wish the aftermath of abortion on anyone.
Regardless of whether abortion leads to sterility or not (and it can), women can't always get pregnant when they want to get pregnant. That's why we've got all these women in their late thirties on fertility drugs. Your body does not follow an external schedule. Your eggs don't care about when you finish school or when you finish paying for your house; your reproductive system is not pausing itself so it'll be ready when you decide you're ready to have children. You'll only ovulate so many times in your life, and any number of factors can cause an ovulating woman having sex to not conceive.
Anne seems to have the attitude that it's better to be dead than it is to be poor. American slaves weren't exactly born into the best of circumstances, but do you think Frederick Douglass or Harriet Tubman would agree that it would have been better had they never been born? Hell no. There are lots of wonderful people who were raised by poor parents. There are lots of wonderful people who were raised by young women who found themselves unexpectedly pregnant. I think I've mentioned this before on this site, but one of my friends from high school was conceived when her mother was unmarried and severely anorexic. She had almost no nutrition during her first month in the womb because her mother hadn't found out yet that she was pregnant. This girl helped make some of my best high school memories and, last I heard, is training to be an opera singer. (She can do it, too - her voice is almost unreal.)
Everybody deserves a chance at life. Abortion takes away that chance forever.Posted by: Marauder at April 7, 2010 7:32 PM
Thanks so much for sharing the truth of your experience to help others. You can never know what a difference you make. You and other women who get honest with themselves and Christ will be the last drop in the bucket for so many scared pregnant women. God is truly working through you. I have seen your photos and you radiate such Joy that cannot be faked.
My son is 19. When I read about your daughter, it takes me back to my pregnancy in 1990 and how scared and alone I felt. I think about where I would be now if I had listened to others and did what they thought would be best for me. Would I still be rationalizing my decision by joining outspoken proabort women thereby easing my own guilt by claiming to help others or would I be a truly strong redeemed woman like you?
I was young, poor, unmarried, and abused when I became pregnant. And I have never for one second regretted choosing Life.
His name is Dalton.Posted by: Praxedes at April 7, 2010 7:50 PM
First off I need to apologize to Anna, with some of my first comments, I have to say that I thought she was just on a pro-life (blog chat) to get people upset and stir things up. But she was a hurting young woman looking for help. Please forgive me to anyone that is hurting and looking for answers and I should know that, but sometimes I get caught up in the back and fourth with pro-choice people.
Anna or anyone out there that is thinking of an abortion, please know that there are so many women out there that want to help, if you would like to e-mail me at email@example.com
or call- 1-800-395-help that is option line and will connect to a Care Net Center near you.
Posted by: Pati Adams
at April 7, 2010 7:53 PM
Ladies and Gentleman, we need to be aware that there are a lot of Anna's out there.
And in 1992 I was an unmarried 20 year old in college told that I would destroy my life. I don't regret my "choice" either. Her name is Alison. She is almost 18.Posted by: Elisabeth at April 7, 2010 7:56 PM
Elizabeth, Praxedes - you bring tears of joy to my eyes!! :)
Carla, Pati, and those here who have abortions in their past, you bring tears to my eyes, too, because you are so willing to share the truth to help spare other women the pain you experienced. THANK YOU.
I just really appreciate you all, and wanted to say so. :)Posted by: Kel at April 7, 2010 8:08 PM
Thank you for your comments. :) I am so grateful to God that you had the courage to give your Dalton life!! I appreciate the differences in our stories and our experience of becoming pregnant and not knowing what to do. You my dear will never regret giving birth to your son and I will always regret aborting my daughter in 1990. Someday I will be with my Aubrey.
Until then I will never stop speaking out against the lies of the abortion industry and loving women enough to tell them the truth.
Love you, Kel!!Posted by: carla at April 7, 2010 8:14 PM
Oh and Elizabeth I am also grateful to God for you and your daughter Alison!!! :)Posted by: carla at April 7, 2010 8:16 PM
And in 1992 I was an unmarried 20 year old in college told that I would destroy my life. I don't regret my "choice" either. Her name is Alison. She is almost 18.
Posted by: Elisabeth at April 7, 2010 7:56 PM
wonderful!Posted by: angel at April 7, 2010 8:51 PM
And speaking of which, if you're going to mention "real love," let's talk about that. Let's look at the way a prochoice mother loves her children. Let's see: the children she wants, she loves; the children she doesn't want, she doesn't love.
okay i don't think that post was necessary for one
two i want to thank everyone for their support, whatever your beliefs are. this should just show you that there are good people on both sides of this issue.
to all of you that are apologizing to me there is nothing to apologize for.
i am pro-choice just to make that clear, but i dont think that their should be such hostility between eachother. there is more to life than arguing with people that aren't going to listen to you no matter what you say.
i don't know what im going to do yet, but when i decide i will let all of you know, prolly just on this same post. :)
thank you everyone :)Posted by: anna at April 7, 2010 11:18 PM
Anna...abortion does not "postpone" pregnancy as one pro-choicer posted. Your pregnancy, your baby's life cannot be put on hold. The abortion will end it. And you will never get that child back.
you may never get another chance at motherhood. Not a scare tactic. Its a truth many women learned the hard way.
My one friend had two abortions and then had a son. Now she has been trying to get pregnant for 3 years and cannot conceive. She laments she took away the only siblings her son would ever have.
My one employee had an abortion and years later got pregnant again. She was debating having another abortion because the situation sucked. She was broke, her family disapproved, she had just started beauty school, the father was kinda a loser who already had a daughter with another girl and was always siphoning money from my employee.
But she finally chose life. And ALL those situations that were driving her to choose abortion worked themselves out. These hard situations that you may be facing in your life are not permanent. And abortion will not solve them.
My employee is now married with a nice home, the loser father really stepped up to the plate, got a great job and now is a great father to both his girls. The mother is back in beauty school, stopped drinking, and her mother who wanted her to abort SO BADLY now loves this little girl so incredibly!!! This grandmother is ENRAPTURED with her little granddaughter.
The day this little girl was born the mother and grandmother lamented that they couldn't believe that they EVER thought about aborting her.
Anna. Be brave. If you are single, it will not be easy BUT IT CAN BE DONE. And all the sacrifices and hard work will be WORTH IT. You will never hold your baby and think "I shoulda had an abortion." NEVER.Posted by: Sydney M. at April 7, 2010 11:44 PM
i feel for your employee and im glad everything worked out, sydney. thank you for taking the time to let me know about her.
and to let you all know im 18, a senior in high school. i am going to the university of iowa next year and i am not single, my boyfriend just doesnt have a job or anything really.Posted by: anna at April 8, 2010 12:21 AM
If there is any way I can help, please let me know.
You will not regret having your baby.Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 8, 2010 12:37 AM
Hi Anna. I have a niece who got pregnant in high school. She chose life and her son is the joy of everyone in our family--everyone--even those who initially raised eyebrows when she decided to have the baby.
She graduated college and is a teacher. She's working on her masters degree now, and she and her son do their homework together in the evenings. He likes to tease her and ask if she needs help with her math :) I am so proud of her. She is one of the most patient, loving, and energetic moms I have ever met.
She was able to work with her guidance counselor to get some financial aid for school. I don't know much about scholarships for single moms, but I know there are some out there. Will your boyfriend be going to college with you? There may be assistance available for him too.
Blessings to all three of you :) I will pray for you. If there is anything specific that I or any of the other commenters here can do to help you, please ask.Posted by: Fed Up at April 8, 2010 12:49 AM
"You will not regret having your baby."
I've met people who regret becoming parents. It's rare, but possible. Just as regretting abortion is rare, but possible.
I hope you're doing okay, Anna! Again, please feel free to email me if you need more information about anything
ReemagirlK@Gmail.comPosted by: ProChoiceGal at April 8, 2010 6:03 AM
Regretting abortion is not rare. PCG do you happen to hear the desperate cries of desperate hearts that so wish they could go back and undo what they have done?? I get emails everyday from women that have never told anyone.....
Offers of help still stand. You can get in touch with Jill Stanek or any of the moderators here. Email us and we will do whatever we can and be there for you. I am not far from Iowa either.
What help can you offer besides links to abortion clinics? Seriously.
Not only is regretting abortion not rare, but anyone who would give birth to a child and wish they'd aborted him or her has some serious psychological problems. I can see regretting that you had a baby adopted, or that you didn't have a baby adopted. But regretting giving birth to a child is seriously twisted. Think Mo'Nique in "Precious."
Anna: Oh, University of Iowa! I got in there, though I went to another school. I just looked it up for you and they have a maternity center on campus. Their website says "You and Your Baby
Are Our Priorities" and lets you set up appointments.
I'm not far from Iowa either. My law school has a pro-life organization and we've had clothing/supplies drives for individual babies before. Also, my extended family had a lot of baby showers lately, and now that they're over, my mom is knitting baby sweaters just for the heck of it. I think she got into the habit or something...we've got at least two just sitting around our house that aren't intended for anyone. I'm not kidding, we really do. We've also got like four extra duck patches to sew on them.
Just for the record, I'm not saying that to pressure you to raise your baby instead of having the baby adopted. Sweaters are getting offered regardless.
Does your boyfriend know you're pregnant? If he dcesn't and he freaks out when you tell him, don't let that freak you out too much. It's a lot to deal with, but both of you can do it. :)Posted by: Marauder at April 8, 2010 7:25 AM
Oh! I've also got several kid's books that are just sitting around the basement; I took a class on children's literature a couple of years ago in college and now that it's over the books are doing nothing. I gave "Harold and the Purple Crayon" and "The Runaway Bunny" to my boyfriend's friend's son, but I'm pretty sure "Goodnight Moon" is still there. Speaking of bunnies, I've also got this adorable stuffed bunny I bought a couple of years ago just because it was cute. It's practically begging for a baby to drool on it. ;)Posted by: Marauder at April 8, 2010 7:38 AM
PCG "I've met people who regret becoming parents. It's rare, but possible" Are you kidding me? Who has told you they regret having their
child(ren). I don't believe you because I've read the amount of lies you have been caught in on your site. Why would you say this? You are so set on pushing your agenda, but why wouldn't you be? It will be your bread and butter someday and if women make better choices they won't need you.
The people who pushed me to abort Dalton, now love him more than anything. He lives with his Dad who was adament when I was pregnant to abort. He helps take care of his Dad who has health issues and his Dad has never regretted having him.
Every friend I've know who has had an abortion, later regrets it.Posted by: Praxedes at April 8, 2010 7:41 AM
Posted by: anna at April 8, 2010 12:21 AM
Well good luck with that. An unemployed 18-year-old boy is probably not going to be a very good provider for you, but I'm sure you won't mind living a hardscrabble life in a trailer park in Iowa after your prospective college education falls through. A lot of men in your boyfriend's situation cut and run when the going gets tough too, but maybe your guy has too much integrity for that to happen. A high-school romance is a pretty solid basis for a life-long relationship, after all. I hope I don't sound too snarky here, but seeing a young woman throw away a college education and opt instead to become pregnant and barefoot while she's still a child herself always makes me sad.Posted by: Anne at April 8, 2010 8:41 AM
Please Anne. Way to believe in Anna. Cause women are just fragile and stupid and if you have a baby you can NEVER finish college or make a better life for yourself. The only way to do that is to kill your baby.
Having an abortion does NOT guarantee Anna will go to college or finish. Having an abortion does not mean Anna will have a great romantic future. Having a baby does NOT mean you CAN'T go to college. I've seen one of my friends do it. She got pregnant at 19 and had her baby and DID complete college and really has made a great life for herself. And though she didn't marry the father, she did find a great man and they married and had another girl and a little boy. She does NOT regret having her daughter. She does NOT regret all the hard work it was. It made her a better person.
Anne...whats worse, throwing away a college education or throwing away another human being's LIFE?
We are saying that Anna is strong enough and smart enough to make it through this difficult situation without resorting to killing her child. You then get on and say no no no no no...she just can't do it. What a downer you are Anne. seriously.Posted by: Sydney M. at April 8, 2010 8:55 AM
Dear Anne (not Anna), the saddest thing about your last post is that you apparently believe it and that you would offer it as advice to a vulnerable and scared young woman. Why do you believe this is the only possible outcome? Did this happen to you or to someone you know? So many of the other comments in this thread prove that it is in fact not the only possible outcome. Also, an 18-year-old is not a child. And I know many couples who were high school sweethearts and are still married in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.
Dear Anna (not Anne). Reading all of the beautiful stories of success and happiness written here and all the offers of help and support has made me cry over and over again--tears of sorrow that I didn't receive the same support (and received only the same sort of advice as Anne has offered), and tears of joy that there are now so many people willing to tell you the truth and to be there for you. It is so beautiful! I hope and pray that in a year and two years and five years and twenty years you will look back on this time with gratitude and joy rather than with grief and regret.
Cyber hugs to you and real prayers to God for you!Posted by: Alice at April 8, 2010 9:02 AM
"Well good luck with that. An unemployed 18-year-old boy is probably not going to be a very good provider for you, but I'm sure you won't mind living a hardscrabble life in a trailer park in Iowa after your prospective college education falls through."
Never said it would be easy to have a child but it can be done. The stories of those here that have done it, prove that. I am sorry Anne that you cannot foresee anything but grinding poverty and lack of opportunity for Anna. It is simply not true. There is always hope and help and support. It has been offered here and you know it.
The problem with your above post is that IF the unborn is an innocent human being (as the right-to-life position claims), then all of your points are completely invalid. Would you make the same argument in favor of killing a 2 year old? No, because a two year old is an innocent human being and it is immoral to kill human beings in order to finish college. So your argument simply does not address the main claim that right-to-lifers make; that abortion can never be justified because it ends the life of an innocent human being.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at April 8, 2010 9:15 AM
Anna: Anne is an angry, bitter person who's trying to use scare tactics to convince you that your life will be ruined if you don't abort this baby. She is absolutely wrong. You will be much happier graduating from college with your child in the audience, or graduating from college knowing your child is happy with his or her adoptive parents, than you will be graduating from college and thinking, "I'm supposed to have a four-year-old right now. He or she is dead and will never come back."
Don't listen to her obnoxious dismissal of your relationship with your boyfriend, either. I have no way of knowing whether you two will stay together, but out of the five kids in my dad's family, four of them married their high school boyfriends/girlfriends and, in their late forties and fifties, are still married to them. My mom and dad had a classmate in high school who got pregnant their senior year and had her baby about a month before graduation. She and the father of her baby got married and have been married since 1968. I started going out with my boyfriend in late 2002, when I was a junior in high school and he was a senior. We haven't set an exact date yet, but we're getting married in May 2012.
Also, note how Anne is trying to shape your range of choices - you can have an abortion, or you can live in a trailer park. Not "you can have your baby adopted" or "you can still finish college, even if it might be difficult or take longer" - she wants you to believe that between you or your baby, one's life has to be destroyed. The fact that she would misrepresent your range of options should tell you that she doesn't have your best interests at heart.Posted by: Marauder at April 8, 2010 9:33 AM
Anne said: "I hope I don't sound too snarky here, but seeing a young woman throw away a college education and opt instead to become pregnant and barefoot while she's still a child herself always makes me sad."
You are appalling.
Since when is a college education more important than the life of an innocent human being?
And what an attitude you have toward pregnancy and motherhood. Do you hate being a woman? Do you wish you were a man?
I can see why prochoicers often get called pro-abortion. You are clearly bent on abortion.Posted by: Bekah Ferguson at April 8, 2010 9:54 AM
I hope I don't sound too snarky here, but seeing a young woman throw away a college education and opt instead to become pregnant and barefoot while she's still a child herself always makes me sad.
Wow, Anne, you sound so pro-"choice". Not.Posted by: bethany at April 8, 2010 10:02 AM
Anna, please don't take Anne's comments to heart. When I was 18 and chose to get married to my husband, who was also 18, my cousin had written me a letter saying that I was throwing my life away to be "barefoot and pregnant" and "raise screaming brats". She thought she knew it all. She told me that my life would be substantially better if I chose a college education rather than a life with my family.
Today, 12 years later, she is still single, has had her heart broken many times and continues to have this problem, and her college education has done nothing to improve her lifestyle in my opinion. I think that I am more satisfied and happy with my life than she is with hers, even though it makes me sad for her. And my children are wonderful!! I wouldn't trade them for the world. I am pursuing my dreams and have been successful, with my children being my biggest fans! I don't know what I'd do without them.
There is nothing wrong with a college education, but you do NOT have to have a college education in order to be educated, or to become successful in life.
Find what it is that YOU love doing and pursue that- your child is not an obstacle unless you decide he/she is. I have found over the years that my children are my biggest inspiration and reason to keep pursuing my goals - I have pursued my dreams and have succeeded without a college degree, and with 3 children (and one due anytime now!). People who are pro-abortion are always going to have the same script- "You can't". "You can't". "You can't." How is this feminism? it's not.
You CAN! With or without children, you are capable of much more than some people seem to realize!Posted by: bethany at April 8, 2010 11:05 AM
Beautiful, Bethany.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at April 8, 2010 11:08 AM
Also, note how Anne is trying to shape your range of choices - you can have an abortion, or you can live in a trailer park. Not "you can have your baby adopted" or "you can still finish college, even if it might be difficult or take longer" - she wants you to believe that between you or your baby, one's life has to be destroyed. The fact that she would misrepresent your range of options should tell you that she doesn't have your best interests at heart.
Right on, Maurader!!Posted by: bethany at April 8, 2010 11:09 AM
"'You can't.' 'You can't.' 'You can't.' How is this feminism? it's not." Amen! Amen! Amen!Posted by: Alice at April 8, 2010 11:10 AM
Bethany, awesome post 11:05. :)
Regarding Anne's latest "inspiring" comment (which has zero to do with true feminism), I wonder if that's also what she told her sister who aborted.Posted by: Kelli at April 8, 2010 11:13 AM
Do you believe in God?Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 8, 2010 11:30 AM
Anna, here are a couple of resources for you.
Nurturing Network- Assistance for pregnant university students.
Anna, most of here don't think women who had abortions are horrible people. Some women close to me have had abortions and I although this saddens me, I love them all the same.
Also, most of us don't condone any sort of violence towards abortion clinics or providers.Posted by: Phillymiss at April 8, 2010 12:41 PM
I am a woman who lives in Iowa. I have had 3 abortions. I had them around your age for the same reasons you are thinking of having an abortion. I got married at the age of 25. My husband and I are unable to have children because of the damage the abortions did to my tubes and uterus.
I will pray for you Anna. I know it is a difficult and scary time right now. Please know that there are people who care about you.
I am there for you. My email address is firstname.lastname@example.org. I will drop everything and drive to you if you would like me to. I will be there for you in whatever decision you make. I will call you, I will help you financially, I will provide a place for you to stay if that is an issue.
Love you, Luana! :)Posted by: carla at April 8, 2010 1:27 PM
I'm so sorry about your abortions. Your loving outreach has brought a tear to my eye. God bless.
Praying for a safe and quick delivery for you!
Anne (with an "e") wrote:
There will be future opportunities for that, Carla. An abortion is really just a postponement of pregnancy.
Please tell me that this was just a mindless reply; I honestly might despair for you, if you seriously believe that raving nonsense.
By that token, wouldn't killing one's school-aged children be "merely postponing motherhood"?
Years later, when she's financially and emotionally stable, there will be plenty of time to raise a family. But the alternative is a possible life of poverty for herself and her unwanted child, and having to surrender many important opportunities at self-betterment in the process.
Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that your outrageously pessimistic, gloom-and-doom prediction is true. Why, especially, would this argue for murdering her child through abortion, rather than entrusting her daughter or son to someone who will lovingly adopt her or him?Posted by: Paladin at April 8, 2010 2:01 PM
Posted by: Sydney M. at April 8, 2010 8:55 AM
Keep knocking down those straw men. I never said that having an abortion guarantees she will attend or finish college, or that having a baby will guarantee she does not. The simple fact of the matter is that, for the majority of women who are in this situation, what I said holds true: college doesn't happen and poverty is common. The fact that you (and others here) can name off a few exceptions is meaningless and doesn't detract from or invalidate what I'm saying in any way. And I never advocated throwing away another human being's life--this is abortion we're talking about, not murder.
Posted by: Alice at April 8, 2010 9:02 AM
The only thing of note I find worth responding to here is your assertion that an 18-year-old is not a child--the only way this is true is speaking from a strictly legal perspective. Emotionally, mentally, financially the vast majority of 18-year-olds are absolutely children. If you don't believe this then you haven't interacted with many people of that age recently.
Posted by: carla at April 8, 2010 9:14 AM
It's not just hard--for most young women, it's impossible, and they will harm themselves trying. You and others here are being dishonest by discarding this fact and trying to fill this girl with delusions that she'll be able to keep an unwanted pregnancy and do all the other things she wants to do with her life too--is it possible that she will? Yes. Is it likely? Absolutely not. It's like telling schoolchildren that they can be President some day--in theory, yes, but in reality, it's extremely unlikely. "Reach for the stars" is a good sentiment, but you need to stay grounded and you need a backup plan for when things that go awry--no one else here is saying this and it needs to be said. Once she goes past the point of no return with her pregnancy (going past the point where women are denied their constitutional right to an abortion because it is considered too late in their pregnancy), there's no turning back.
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at April 8, 2010 9:15 AM
I'm not trying to refute the "right-to-life position". Frankly it's an article of faith that "abortion = murder = immoral" and so it is untouchable by reason or logic. What I'm trying to do is offer sound advice to this young girl on a forum where most everybody else is motivated entirely by political and religious ideology.
Posted by: Marauder at April 8, 2010 9:33 AM
I'm not trying to "shape [her] range of choices"--her range of choices has already been shaped by the position she's in at this point in her life. I'm just trying to give her an even-handed description of the consequences of her actions because nobody else here is willing to do that.
Posted by: Bekah Ferguson at April 8, 2010 9:54 AM
Pregnancy and motherhood is great--if you can afford it. Nobody should have to live in the gutter because of a bad choice they made in their youth.
Posted by: Paladin at April 8, 2010 2:01 PM
Even the adoption route is fraught with problems. Any pregnancy can result in physical complications no matter how healthy the mother is, not to mention the costs of prenatal care. And there are plenty of other considerations too--for example, if you care about that sort of thing, pregnancy can cause stretch marks and other non-threatening but un-attractive physical changes that are permanent--these are things that any prospective mother should think long and hard about and nobody here is saying that.Posted by: Anne at April 8, 2010 3:07 PM
It's like telling schoolchildren that they can be President some day--in theory, yes, but in reality, it's extremely unlikely.
Um, I'm quite certain that the chances of Anna successfully parenting a child AND obtaining an education is exponentially more likely than any person's chances of becoming President. Apparently, you only hang around women who have aborted and you've never actually seen a woman who has done all that without killing her own offspring to accomplish it.
Once she goes past the point of no return with her pregnancy (going past the point where women are denied their constitutional right to an abortion because it is considered too late in their pregnancy), there's no turning back.
Oh, perhaps you're not familiar with U.S. Law and the Doe vs. Bolton decision. "Mental health" and "health of the mother" loopholes allow for abortions up to the day of birth. You probably think, though, that all those women going to Dr. Tiller had fetal abnormalities. lol
Frankly it's an article of faith that "abortion = murder = immoral" and so it is untouchable by reason or logic.
LOL, keep telling yourself that. Plenty of atheist pro-lifers around here would have something to say about that...
Pregnancy and motherhood is great--if you can afford it. Nobody should have to live in the gutter because of a bad choice they made in their youth.And thanks to adoption, no one has to. :) Oh, but wait, you're AGAINST adoption, because it's "fraught with problems" and of course, as we know, abortion is "pain-free" and has zero consequences for every woman unless she "chooses" to inflict pain upon herself for said act.
not to mention the costs of prenatal care.Which adoptive families cover, as well as Medicaid and most parental insurance plans, as well as many state plans such as KidCare.
And there are plenty of other considerations too--for example, if you care about that sort of thing, pregnancy can cause stretch marks and other non-threatening but un-attractive physical changes that are permanent
Wow, thanks for exposing the shallowness of the pro-abort mentality. Perfect.
I'm just trying to give her an even-handed description of the consequences of her actions because nobody else here is willing to do that.
Excuse me, but "even-handed" my *ss. You told her she'd end up as trailer trash unless she aborted. You are a real piece of work, Anne. You need psychiatric help. Seriously. Whose abortion are you trying to justify?Posted by: Kelli at April 8, 2010 3:23 PM
"Um, I'm quite certain that the chances of Anna successfully parenting a child AND obtaining an education is exponentially more likely than any person's chances of becoming President. Apparently, you only hang around women who have aborted and you've never actually seen a woman who has done all that without killing her own offspring to accomplish it."
I interact with many, many women professionally and socially and I cannot think of a single one that had a child at an extremely young age and went on to find academic and financial success after the fact. Teen pregnancy ruins lives. Sorry that you're living in denial and refuse to acknowledge this.
"Oh, perhaps you're not familiar with U.S. Law and the Doe vs. Bolton decision. "Mental health" and "health of the mother" loopholes allow for abortions up to the day of birth. You probably think, though, that all those women going to Dr. Tiller had fetal abnormalities. lol"
One shouldn't have to exploit a loophole to exercise one's constitutional rights.
"LOL, keep telling yourself that. Plenty of atheist pro-lifers around here would have something to say about that..."
Really? Except it wouldn't mean anything because it's still an article of faith (not necessarily religious faith) to think that.
"Excuse me, but "even-handed" my *ss. You told her she'd end up as trailer trash unless she aborted. You are a real piece of work, Anne. You need psychiatric help. Seriously. Whose abortion are you trying to justify?"
I didn't tell her that. I just pointed out that it's a serious possibility. Duly exercising a constitutional right never requires justification.Posted by: Anne at April 8, 2010 3:33 PM
"Frankly it's an article of faith that "abortion = murder = immoral" and so it is untouchable by reason or logic. "
Why would you say that this is an article of faith? How do you know this? What is the reason or logic that you can provide to argue that abortion is untouchable by reason or logic? If this is an article of faith, by what standard do you judge that killing a 2 month old is wrong? Medical science has determined beyond any doubt that the unborn is a human being; that is, it is a whole organism which is a member of the human race. Is it moral to kill members of the human race? That is the question at hand. If that question is beyond reason but based solely on faith, our system of morality in society is based on nothing. Again, the unborn is a human being. You claim it is moral to kill this human being. Killing a human being requires justification beyond "you'll have a better chance to finish college" or anything else of that nature.
If the unborn is human, no justification for abortion is adequate. If the unborn is not a human, no justification for abortion is necessary.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at April 8, 2010 3:40 PM
Oh dear Anne. I don't know why you have such a negative and pessimistic view of life, but I feel very, very sad for you that you do. It must come from some real pain. You need to take a break from passing on that pain to other people and get some help for yourself. So many beautiful truths have been posted here. It must be taking a lot of effort to keep up the fight to maintain your pain- and fear-filled point of view.
"And I never advocated throwing away another human being's life--this is abortion we're talking about, not murder." So, let me get this straight: you've read all the science and looked at all the ultrasound images and you still believe that abortion does not end the life of a new human being that is already under way in the womb?
Abortion is nothing if not the "throwing away" of another human being's life"!
I pray that you will receive the grace and courage you need to stop fighting and put down your weapons and accept healing for your mind and heart. It's scary, I know, to let go and cross over, but there is a lot of love waiting for you. In fact, it's already being offered to you here (even when it comes across like anger and frustration). I pray that you will be able to recognize and accept it. I know you don't trust us and where we're coming from, but I pray that one day you will.Posted by: Alice at April 8, 2010 3:45 PM
"I interact with many, many women professionally and socially and I cannot think of a single one that had a child at an extremely young age and went on to find academic and financial success after the fact."
And I've never met a Mormon, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, or that I wouldn't find a whole ton of them if I went to the right places.
"Faith" has nothing to do with the scientific fact that abortion ends a human life. Fetuses are undeniably alive. They are undeniably human. In abortion, they undeniably have their lives forcibly ended. No matter how you spin it, phrase it, or try to justify it, that's the reality.
Bethany: Thanks. :)Posted by: Marauder at April 8, 2010 3:48 PM
Owning slaves was once a constitutional right as well.
I interact with many, many women professionally and socially and I cannot think of a single one that had a child at an extremely young age and went on to find academic and financial success after the fact. Teen pregnancy ruins lives.
Anna isn't "extremely young." She is 18 years old...a young adult.
And I have people in my own family who had children and placed them for adoption who have gone on and made great successes of their lives.
And you know something else? I have never seen abortion rescue impoverished women from poverty. And it was supposed to be the great solution...
Anne, you're a great example that poverty of the soul is the greatest poverty.
Could you please explain to me how it is an article of "faith" to believe that the unborn human embryo/fetus is indeed a human being? (Keep calling it "murder" so you can try to use semantics to justify your position, btw. It won't work. Taking a human life is taking a human life. Slaveowners weren't charged with "murder" when they beat their slaves to death, either, but they took human lives, nonetheless.) The real stretch of blind faith, Anne, is the pro-choice position.
Am I to assume from your "constitutional rights" statement that you approve of abortion up through the ninth month of pregnancy?
Let me see now, your "even-handed" statement to Anna was: Well good luck with that. An unemployed 18-year-old boy is probably not going to be a very good provider for you, but I'm sure you won't mind living a hardscrabble life in a trailer park in Iowa after your prospective college education falls through. A lot of men in your boyfriend's situation cut and run when the going gets tough too, but maybe your guy has too much integrity for that to happen. A high-school romance is a pretty solid basis for a life-long relationship, after all. I hope I don't sound too snarky here, but seeing a young woman throw away a college education and opt instead to become pregnant and barefoot while she's still a child herself always makes me sad.
Posted by: Anne at April 8, 2010 8:41 AM
Hmm...yeah, very even-handed. My mistake...
BTW, you showed your true "respect" for human life a while back on the Terri Schiavo thread, by posting something so disgusting it had to be removed.Posted by: Kel at April 8, 2010 3:54 PM
Neither my mother nor either grandmother have college degrees. Does this make them less worthy than Anne or myself? I would put their intelligence up against Anne's any day. I prefer to be around a low-income family vs. a snooty "educated" woman anyday.
One thing I have learned as I get older is that the saying "misery likes company" is so true. I avoid hanging out with people who have this attitude in order that it not rub off on me. However, when I do cross their paths, I offer them compassion because this is what they truly need.
Anne is such an obviously miserable person and is looking to have anyone join her there. Anne, I refuse to join you in your misery but if I were with you right now, I would give you a great big hug and kiss and a shoulder to cry on. And I wouldn't even ask what your degree is in because it obviously has not fulfilled your life.
P.S. I had stretch marks before pregnancy and most people will eventually get them whether they have children or not. What Kelli said exactly, whose abortion are you trying to justify?Posted by: Praxedes at April 8, 2010 4:01 PM
BTW, I apologize if there is any confusion with my posting name. When I am logged into the site to do my work, my name pops up as "Kelli" but when I am not logged in, it defaults to "Kel," which has always been my moniker. I am the same person, just to clarify.Posted by: Kel at April 8, 2010 4:05 PM
"I'm just trying to give her an even-handed description of the consequences of her actions because nobody else here is willing to do that."
Abortion has not and will never cure unplanned pregnancies. Abortion further hides poor self-control and decision-making issues. Abortion will never enpower; having the courage and integrity to make the right choice after wrong choices will. Life is the right choice.Posted by: Praxedes at April 8, 2010 4:07 PM
Posted by: Bobby Bambino at April 8, 2010 3:40 PM
I did not say that "abortion is untouchable by reason or logic." I said that calling abortion murder and immoral is an article of faith, because it is. It is a baseless, counter-intuitive assertion that equates even a just-fertilized egg with a person, discarding the obvious qualitative differences between these two things, and uses that assertion as the point of departure for deeming abortion to be murder and inventing a non-existant right of a fetus to be born despite how absurd the notion is on its face. What standard do I judge the killing of a 2-month-old to be wrong? The same standard that every society, past and present, has relied on: a person is endowed with rights at the point of birth. "Is it moral to kill members of the human race?" If you're going to dumb down the standard for being a member of the human race to merely "has been conceived" then the concept of "killing a member of the human race" loses all meaning anyway. For the record, I don't claim that abortion is "moral"--I consider it morally neutral in the same way that any other medical procedure is--it has no moral component to it. If you're seeing one, then it's because you've invented it for yourself.
Posted by: Marauder at April 8, 2010 3:48 PM
Again, with such a broad definition of "human" the concept loses its entire moral value.Posted by: Anne at April 8, 2010 4:44 PM
"Owning slaves was once a constitutional right as well."
And even then the founders by the majority, except for those from the Southern states of Georgia, South Carolina and North Carolina (even many from slaveholding state of Virgina clamored for abolition of slavery even though they themselves owned slaves), set in places steps they hoped would eventually get slavery to die out. They banned the slave trade by 1808 (if not for threats of by those from the South of refusing to ratify the Constitution, it would have been banned there and then). Slavery was banned in the NW Territory. Many founders set up abolition movements and organizations and many did successfully have slavery abolished in their states. Virgnia came close to abolishing slavery.
Slavery most likely would have died out with these steps had not been for the invention of the cotton gin, and the human greed that accompanied it in the generations afterwards in the South and its enablers in the North.
But you raised a valid point with the Dred Scott decision.
The funny thing on the Constitution and abortion is that Anne would have us believe that abortion was seen as fundamental right as seen by the founders, when in any other context, she herself would bashed them as anti-progressive. Somehow in her mind, they were for right to abort for mothers in an era when women had yet to have right to vote yet!
And as before, her claims are refuted by these facts: 1) as Blackstone pointed out, abortion was forbidden when the unborn can stir in the womb, as proof of the unborn being alive and thus human (they went by what they knew of the science then), 2) James Wilson, one of 6 founders to sign both the Declaration and the Constitution, himself pointed out the same thing in American law on this issue, which really was carried over from the common law. Her best "rebuttals" is to claim common law did not exist at founding since America broke away form England, despite the fact every history and law books and sites state that America retained most of the common law from England, except where the founders felt it violated constitutional liberty. Or claim common law did not exist until statutes come along, which goes against what common law actually is and also debunked by any given law site online and in book. Or claim that Blackstone's understanding of common law of Wilson's understanding of American law are wrong and lack understanding, but produce no counter-evidence to show that's the case.
The fact is the only evidence we have of mention of abortion is founders saw it as to be forbidden once the baby can stir in the womb, so to claim abortion is fundamental right is laughable.Posted by: Punisher at April 8, 2010 4:47 PM
"The same standard that every society, past and present, has relied on: a person is endowed with rights at the point of birth."
So then how did abortion get banned in many states before Roe v Wade and Doe v Bolton if the unborn have no right to live in the PAST and present according to EVERY society's STANDARD?
And are we supposed to believe you know more than Blackstone are on what the common law is in England and know more than founding father and one of earliest US Supreme Court justice James Wilson on what the American law's view of the unborn at founding?
Apparently, those two totally disagreed with you that the unborn have no rights from the point the unborn can stir in the womb til birth.
You are basically making up facts, history, and law as you go along.Posted by: Punisher at April 8, 2010 4:51 PM
Not to mention EVERY FEMINIST to the woman back in the 1800s and early 1900s saw abortion as infanticide, murder of humans, treating other humans as properties, degrading, dreadful, criminal, etc., etc.
So I guess somehow someone forgot to tell these classical feminists such as SBA that the idea that society's standard that the unborn is not human and does not have any rights. LOLPosted by: Punisher at April 8, 2010 4:54 PM
Anne: The same standard that every society, past and present, has relied on: a person is endowed with rights at the point of birth.
Me: Wikpedia debunked this notion:
As a matter of common law in England and the United States, abortion was illegal anytime after quickening – when the movements of the fetus could first be felt by the woman. In the 19th century, many Western countries began to use statutes to codify or further restrictions on abortion. Anti-abortion forces were led by a combination of conservative groups opposed to abortion on moral grounds and medical professionals who were concerned about the danger presented by the procedure and the regular involvement of non-medical personnel in performing abortions.Posted by: Punisher at April 8, 2010 5:25 PM
And even if it were the case that every society had relied on that standard, we know a heck of a lot more about biology, DNA, and pre-natal development than they did.Posted by: Marauder at April 8, 2010 5:45 PM
Explain Conner Peterson.Posted by: xalisae at April 8, 2010 6:10 PM
Broad definition of human? How is that a "broad" definition of human? Humans have human DNA from the moment of conception. How is it broad to state that a being with human DNA is a human??Posted by: Elisabeth at April 8, 2010 6:34 PM
The fact that you (and others here) can name off a few exceptions is meaningless Posted by: Anne
To you perhaps. But for many of us, the teen parenting successes we've seen in those near and dear to us are quite full of meaning. And hope. And great joy :)
Teen pregnancy ruins lives. Sorry that you're living in denial and refuse to acknowledge this.
Hmm, just saw my niece over the Easter weekend. She looked pretty happy to me. So did the kids. Either they're faking it and covering up their secretly miserable lives ... or you're just flat out wrong. I see them quite a bit and I feel confident that I can believe what I see. And what they tell me. My niece and her family may be "meaningless" to you, but you are powerless to tarnish in any way the daily witness they give to the joy and beauty of choosing life.
I don't mean to minimize the challenges of a teen pregnancy. Or to glamorize it either. But the fact is, it's not a death sentence to hopes and dreams no matter how much you'd like to present it as such. Many circumstances in life prompt us to take a different path than the one we'd envisioned for ourselves. Doesn't mean we lose sight of the destination. It just means we take an alternate route getting there.
I wish you peace, Anne.Posted by: Fed Up at April 8, 2010 6:34 PM
"it's not a death sentence"
Not all of the time, anyway. When I was raped when I was 14, I decided that I'd kill myself if I got pregnant. The only reason I'm still here is because I was lucky enough not to get pregnant.
Not that my experiences would matter to you. They don't advance your agenda.Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 8, 2010 6:39 PM
ProChoiceGal, your experiences DO matter to us. I'm so sorry that you had to suffer through such a traumatic thing, and that you felt as though it would be better to be dead if it turned out you were pregnant. We want young women in the same situation - and young women who have been raped and actually are pregnant because of it - to understand that while rape may have wounded them, it doesn't need to do the further damage of ending anyone's life.Posted by: Marauder at April 8, 2010 6:45 PM
"Not that my experiences would matter to you. They don't advance your agenda."
You're wrong there. Your views may be views we oppose, especilally things that are hurtful to us like your accusations we are pro-rapists and or your claims that the unborn are parasites and rapists if they are unwanted by their mothers. We regard those as extreme.
But make no mistake about it. All of us hate what happened to you, and we are sorry for what the guy did to you. We all prayed for your healing from that. It does not matter in this case what your stance is on abortion. It matters to us that you were hurt in ways no gal like you deserve to have happened to, and we hurt for you that it happened. We love you, just want you to know that, even though you make us mad alot at times here.Posted by: Punisher at April 8, 2010 7:05 PM
You talking to me, PCG? I have quite a bit of experience working with sexual assault survivors of both genders. Even if I hadn't, your victimhood is hardly meaningless to me. Or I suspect to most prolifers, because we tend to value ALL life.
In any case, although we oppose each other on the abortion issue, I am thankful you didn't kill yourself and I hope you got some good counseling after the assault.Posted by: Fed Up at April 8, 2010 7:07 PM
It really does tear me up when you talk about being raped, PCG. 14 years old. I was contemplating suicide at that age, but for other reasons. I am so sorry. I am grateful that you did not kill yourself.
I also like that you come here. We hone our skillz with you. heh hehPosted by: carla at April 8, 2010 7:40 PM
"I said that calling abortion murder and immoral is an article of faith, because it is. It is a baseless..."
It is based on the fact that the embryo is biologically a human being. The reason we don't kill human beings is because human beings have inherent dignity and moral worth simply because they are human. This is the standard by which we do not kill any born human beings.
Many things are counter-intuitive but that does not mean they are incorrect. Take quantum mechanics, general relativity, and Cantor's theory of the infinite for example. This is why we apply sound logic, scientific, and moral thinking to questions; precisely because our intuition may be flawed.
"..that equates even a just-fertilized egg with a person, discarding the obvious qualitative differences between these two things..."
What is the qualitative difference that makes one worthy of life and the other not worthy of life?
"...and uses that assertion as the point of departure for deeming abortion to be murder and inventing a non-existant right of a fetus to be born despite how absurd the notion is on its face."
If the fetus is a person, what makes the notion so absurd?
"What standard do I judge the killing of a 2-month-old to be wrong? The same standard that every society, past and present, has relied on: a person is endowed with rights at the point of birth."
So there really is nothing transcendent about the right to not kill a 2 month old? In other words, had society past and present deemed that a person was endowed with rights the day they turned 3 years old, then it would be morally permissible to kill a 2 year old? Does this mean you also believe that homosexual marriage is immoral because it has been accepted by society past and present? If your understanding of morality is based solely on what has been deemed acceptable throughout history, than we are at an impasse. Society could have deemed that rape is acceptable or that torturing small children for fun was acceptable, yet one would be a moral monster to uphold such practices. No, there is an objective moral truth which we discover, not create. Thus, society can be wrong when they look to discover the moral law, so simply yielding to what society has done is not an acceptable basis for morality.
"If you're going to dumb down the standard for being a member of the human race to merely "has been conceived" then the concept of "killing a member of the human race" loses all meaning anyway."
I am saying that being a member of the human race means being a member of the human race. I can provide all the quotes from scientific texts that you would like to demonstrate that most of us began our existence as a zygote. If being biologically human is not good enough to be a member of the human race, what does one need in order to be a member of the human race? What is the standard for being a member of the human race if it is not something scientific?
"Again, with such a broad definition of "human" the concept loses its entire moral value."
Then what does it mean to be human, Anne? What does a human organism need to possess in order to make it worthy of life? What is an objective reason to say that a fetus can be killed by a 2 month old can not be?Posted by: Bobby Bambino at April 8, 2010 8:02 PM
Anne...this has nothing to do with politics or religion. Nice try.
Xalisae who comments here frequently is an atheist and NOT RELIGIOUS yet she believes abortions is murder. My sister-in-law is nauseatingly liberal and I am as right-wing as they come. We disagree on almost every topic, but we both agree that abortion is murder. So its not religious, and its obviously not political.
Its common sense that the unborn human is a human being. We don't procreate and produce fish do we? Its obviously living or the child would not be growing. You wouldn't have checkups with the doctor every month to check the growth of something thats not alive. So the baby is a member of the human species and is alive. This isn't rocket science ya know. What were you moaning about a college education again?Posted by: Sydney M. at April 8, 2010 9:27 PM
PCG, as I've commented before on here, I was also raped as a young teen. My heart goes out to you. I'm glad you didn't kill yourself. I know the temptation when you've been degraded in that way... I still suffer from low self-esteem issues and nightmares. And I made a lot of really bad decisions as an adolescent based upon that.
Caring about you as a person is not dependent up on agreeing with you on this issue. I care about Hal... but I don't agree with him.Posted by: Elisabeth at April 8, 2010 9:37 PM
"I have never had an abortion; my sister did and she has no regrets. I explained this."
Um, yeah, I have, ummm, this friend, who ummm has this situation, ummmPosted by: Praxedes at April 8, 2010 9:40 PM
I appreciate the good intentions in response to my last post, but saying "I'm sorry you were raped, but if you had gotten pregnant as a result of your assault, I'd still want to force you to go through 9 more months of trauma" is more triggering than comforting, to be honest.Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 8, 2010 9:50 PM
Abortion doesn't end trauma, it creates trauma. It's not healing. It's destructive.Posted by: Marauder at April 8, 2010 10:03 PM
Abortion wouldn't have ended the trauma of being raped, but if would have ended the trauma of a rape pregnancy.Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 8, 2010 10:09 PM
A dear friend of mine was impregnated by her dad when she was 12 (after some years of abuse by him; FYI I was molested by my dad from age 2 to 12, but fortunately he stopped before that could happen to me; still, I know a little something about this topic). She was forced to have an abortion. Her dad was arrested, tried, and convicted and served over a decade in prison. She was left to deal with the aftermath on her own. She has been through a lot, including homelessness and depression, and what finally turned her life around, at age 28, was going to a Rachel's Vineyard retreat and finding peace about the child--her child, whom she named when she was pregnant--who was ripped out of her. She is now one of the most joyful and encouraging people I know. Life is still hard for her in many ways, but she is in school and determined to create a meaningful and happy life for herself, one day and one step at a time.
PCG, you didn't get pregnant, you didn't have to face that, but you still seem trapped in anger and resentment and it oozes out of you. Wouldn't you rather be joyful and hopeful and spread joy and hope instead, like so many of the other women here who have been through difficult and painful things too? It's not too late. It's never too late.Posted by: Alice at April 8, 2010 10:09 PM
everyone needs to let pcg alone.
anne, u can kiss my *ss. sorry for the language.
you are the kind of person who gives pro-choice people a bad name. i will not just end my education because of keeping my child. i will NOT be trailer trash because i keep my child. i have lived in trailers in iowa thank you very much. you have no idea what ive been through, what ive seen and delt with. you have no right to tell me those things. I AM PRO-CHOICE but the people on here are good people that want to help. im sure if i decided to have an abortion they would still support me and as for you i could care less if you supported me or not. i think that you are a closed minded person who doesn't care if they hurt others as long as your point gets across. screw you!
thank you to everyone again. i just can't believe how helpful you all are trying to be. thank you so much.
p.s. if you are intelligent at all you will never say anything about my boyfriend again you have no idea what hes been through either. that goes for all of you, not just anne. but mostly to anne :) thanks everyone
and i'm sorry to Jill if you don't appreciate what i said to her. and im sorry if there is alot of mistakes in this im just kinda mad n its hard to type when your mad
:) thank you again lolPosted by: anna at April 8, 2010 10:26 PM
How are you doing, anna?Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 8, 2010 10:28 PM
Just hard and frustrating to see someone stuck anywhere painful, especially having been there. Mothering instincts, I guess. :^) I'll shut up now.Posted by: Alice at April 8, 2010 10:35 PM
im good. i took another pregnancy test and this one said negative so i don't know whats going on. the first one i took said positive i'm going to the doctor next week to figure out whats going on. im ganna feel bad for telling you all that i am if im not but i'm ganna be really happy if im not :).
how are you PCG?Posted by: anna at April 8, 2010 10:36 PM
Going to the doctor would definitely be the best way to confirm a pregnancy. I'm glad you're doing well.
I'm doing pretty well, too. I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. I hope everything turns out okay for you, whether you're pregnant or not, and no matter which option you choose if you are. Good luck :)Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 8, 2010 10:43 PM
The reason PCG got the flack she got was for many times here accusing us of being pro-rapists and similar attacks then when we are upset by these attacks and respond to defend ourselves, take our quotes and post them unto her blog and other blogs to mock and ridicule us without posting her quotes that provoke the responses.
I am glad folks are trying to play nice with her (and she has toned down her rhetoric in this blog entry here on prolife ads), now that many of us know her past history as a victim. But some of the things that occurred here were upsetting to us given there are folks who are rape victims who are accused repeatedly of being pro-rapists.Posted by: Punisher at April 8, 2010 10:44 PM
"if you are intelligent at all you will never say anything about my boyfriend again you have no idea what hes been through either. that goes for all of you, not just anne. but mostly to anne :) thanks everyone"
Posted by: Punisher
at April 8, 2010 10:49 PM
Understood. If I was to write a bio of my life, it probably be entitled "To Hell and Back."
i understand punisher, but don't hold things again people.
PCG, thank you for keeping me in your thoughts and prayers. i hope everything works out the way i want but if not i'vve got some decisions to make.
oh and another thing to anne that i forgot to say before: stretch marks are the least of my worries. you wound pretty full of yourself and i have no idea who you are or your background or even how old you are but i am not that vain to worry about whether or not i'll be able to wear a bikini again from the stretch marks. i can't believe you would even say something like that. i don't even know if she is still on here but i think she is ridiculous.Posted by: anna at April 8, 2010 10:53 PM
hahaha thanks punisher :) :) :)Posted by: anna at April 8, 2010 10:56 PM
"i understand punisher, but don't hold things again people."
Posted by: Punisher
at April 8, 2010 10:58 PM
I know, that's why me and others are trying to be gentle in our responses to her posts directed at us as much as we can, whereas any other person, without knowing the person's history, would not have gotten as much grace here in this blog entry.
im sure they wouldn't. you all are kinda scary to tell you the truth lol j/k.
i am pro-choice but the whole abortion up untill birth thing is ridiculous. there is no reason that that baby couldn't go to an adoptive family. the women already carried it for how long why do that. i don't get it thats just plain stupid.Posted by: anna at April 8, 2010 11:00 PM
Anna... all I can do is smile. You go, girl.
Please see a doctor. You are more likely to get a false negative than a false positive. You also have to factor in whether your urine was more dilute for the second test, whether the second test was a different brand or even batch from the same brand.
Another possible explanation is that you may have had a very, very early miscarriage. About 25% of pregnancies result in miscarriage, many of them before the woman knows she's pregnant. She just has a heavier than usual period. With the advent of home pregnancy tests that pick up at earlier and earlier points, more women are becoming aware of these miscarriages.
I will be thinking about you during this time. Please let us know what the doctor says.Posted by: Elisabeth at April 8, 2010 11:00 PM
Anna, please don't let Anne get you too upset. Some people (Anne, not you) thrive on negative attention, know what I mean? Her remarks reveal more about her than they do about you :)
Still keeping you in my prayers too.Posted by: Fed Up at April 8, 2010 11:03 PM
thank you elisabeth, but i don't think its a miscarriage. i haven't had my period in like 2 months.
and i will let you all know for sure what the doctor says.Posted by: anna at April 8, 2010 11:04 PM
fedup thank you but i have a very short fuse and i personally do not think that living in a trailer is such a bad thing, i did for my entire child hood. we didn't get an actual house untill i was in 7th grade and our trailer was crap but i'm still here im not dead because i lived in a trailer in iowa. and why does it matter where the trailer is? is it because its in iowa thats like "oh my, shes going to be white trailer trash standing on the lawn with 5 kids runnign around and a fat greasy man sitting in a lawn chair smoking a cig." NO i don't think so... stupid anne ugh!Posted by: anna at April 8, 2010 11:07 PM
2 months... okay honey, it's doctor time. (I get to pull the mom card, you're about the same age as my oldest daughter. I also get to pull the RN card! Wow, I have a lot of cards. LOL)
There are other reasons for missing a period. Even stress can do that. But, add in the positive pregnancy test and I think it's definitely time to get medical attention. Whether you choose to parent or adopt out, you'll want to be as healthy as possible for your own sake, as well as for the little one's.
If medical care or insurance is a concern, please contact a local crisis pregnancy center. They can put you in touch with the best local resources. You would be amazed what is available... people truly have giving hearts in this country. WIC and Medicaid may be available as well.
And no, there is nothing wrong with a trailer.
You sound very protective of this young man of yours. That's usually a sign of a strong bond. Is he aware of the situation? Also, have you spoken to your parents about this? As a mom I can tell you, even though the initial reaction may not be the most positive (it can be a shock to parents, after all), most parents come around and eventually find they truly love the unexpected little one!
Is there anything in particular that any of us can do to help you at this time? You may email me at email@example.com (and I get tons of spam mail, a little more won't kill me for those of you about to warn me not to post it publicly! LOL)
Hugs to you during this time of tough decisions.Posted by: Elisabeth at April 8, 2010 11:20 PM
well what happened was that i was on the pill and it got screwed up and i don't know if thats what was making my period late or what but i am going to the doctor the next day that i don't have school or work.
and i am protective of him i just don't think its right to talk about him when hes not here to defend himself so i have to do it :) (motherly skills? just kidding)
thank you for your support and i hope you don't get to many more spam emails lolPosted by: anna at April 8, 2010 11:27 PM
LOL... the pill and antibiotics in my case. She's named Alison and she'll be 18 in November! LOL, I understand.
Keep us posted.Posted by: Elisabeth at April 8, 2010 11:36 PM
Anna, so glad you stopped by again. Thanks for keeping us posted. Praying for you. I have close family where you are, and if there's anything you need, please let me know. My aunt works at the hospital there and I'm sure knows where to find resources to help you if you're interested. firstname.lastname@example.orgPosted by: Kel at April 8, 2010 11:46 PM
thanks kelli. i'll keep everyone updated to let you all know. i just really appreciate all the support from both sidesPosted by: anna at April 8, 2010 11:59 PM
I'll be praying for you Anna.
You too Anne.Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 9, 2010 12:33 AM
I don't think I have any authoritative cards (lol), but yeah, two missed periods and a positive test definitely sounds like doctor time. Sometimes it's possible to have a delayed period because of stress - in my first week of college I was about six weeks late in getting my period - but missing two completely isn't a usual thing if you're not pregnant (or anorexic).
Anna, I am SO glad that you're not believing any of Anne's negativity. Seriously, SO glad. :DPosted by: Marauder at April 9, 2010 7:25 AM
Wanted to let you all know that a young girl at my church listened to my abortion story when I gave it last spring. She became pregnant that summer at the age of 18 and couldn't get my words out of her head. She is now looking into adoption for her baby and is VERY EXCITED about placing her child with the family God has already picked out. She is due soon! :)
We are here for you in whatever way that looks like to you. We care about you and your baby and your boyfriend. You sound like a very smart and strong girl and I am praying for you too.
I haven't said anything to you yet, but I just wanted to let you know that you will be in my prayers. I tend to sometimes get too caught up in the "intellectual" aspect of the abortion debate, and tend to forget that he are talking about real people with real feelings like you.
Please also know that though we are praying desperately that you will choose to carry your baby to term, we will not stop loving, praying for, and caring about you and your baby no matter what happens. God love you.Posted by: Bobby Bambino at April 9, 2010 9:10 AM
Anna--I got pregnant on the pill also. And I wasn't on antibiotics and I never skipped a dose. So just know it can happen. Let us know how it goes at the doctors! I am saying a prayer for you also! Be brave and strong!Posted by: Sydney M. at April 9, 2010 9:19 AM
Carla, how anyone could ever hear you speak and not be changed is beyond me... of course you made an impact! I weep when I just see VIDEO of your testimony!Posted by: Elisabeth at April 9, 2010 10:13 AM
I cry too. There is one video of Carla from operation outcry where she is sitting and being interviewed and I can't watch it without tears streaming down my face. She talks about Aubrey and about the children she miscarried and I just cry and cry. I posted it on my facebook page because I have post-abortive friends who I know will see it. Maybe they will see some small sliver of light shining through their dark pain because of Carla's willingness to speak out.Posted by: Sydney M. at April 9, 2010 10:27 AM
Okay, Anna, I read you loud and clear. You came from the trailer parks and you're not afraid to return to the trailer parks. Social mobility isn't for everyone. The world needs Wal-Mart greeters too. Best of luck to you and yours.Posted by: Anne at April 9, 2010 11:54 AM
As Anne demonstrates, sometimes happiness, politeness, compassion, and respect don't seem to be for everyone, either...and I really wish that would change for you, Anne. You are clearly a very embittered, angry person, and you have no regard for anyone - unborn babies, poor people, your ideological opponents - who you deem to be "beneath you."
It's sad, because whoever you are or wherever you're from, it's obviously a place where women don't feel as liberated or empowered as they should. It's a place where children are the enemy and must be destroyed except when they arrive the exact minute their mother wants them. It's a place where not getting stretch marks is more important than human life. It's a place where human DNA doesn't make a person human - it's a place where only an elite are allowed to be "real human beings." It's a place where women are given no hope that they can overcome adverse circumstances. You don't have to live there, and I hope one day you'll realize that.Posted by: Marauder at April 9, 2010 12:08 PM
I'm doing quite well for myself, thank you very much. I wanted Anna to be able to do well for herself too, but some people only realize their mistakes after they've made them. She's not the first foolhardy child who is in way over his or her head that I've been unable to reach, and won't be the last, and that's fine. Some people just aren't meant to better themselves. Such is reality.Posted by: Anne at April 9, 2010 12:23 PM
Carla @ 8:51
That's wonderful news! I'm praying for your friend and the new adopting family!
Doing well for one's self is meaningless if they're an empty shell of a human being. I believe you qualify as the perfect example. Personally, I'd rather be the 400 lb. woman living in squalor in a trailer than you. At least then I might be capable of being jovial without coming off as a tremendous bitch as you've done a lovely job of being here. I notice what you said about poor people under the moniker of "Oregon Republican" seems to be accurate in regards to your attitude towards those you consider your lessers...only...you're not a Republican, are you?
Anna - My best wishes for you and any children you may have in the future. If the situation calls for it, you can have the strength to do it, and the patience to do what's right.Posted by: xalisae at April 9, 2010 12:33 PM
Hurt people hurt people, or at least try to. The reason I think you're sticking around here, Anne, is not because you think you're right but because you're afraid you might be wrong. I think the person you're really wrestling with is not us but yourself and God. You must realize by now that everything you're saying is not going to change anyone's mind here, and that we just feel less and less angry and just more and more sorrow for you (if I may dare to speak for others as well as myself), so there must be another reason you keep coming back and responding. Whatever the reason, I hope and pray that whatever you are seeking, deep down, whether consciously or not, is what you find here, if even just in the form of a seed that will later grow into something more. God bless you, Anne.Posted by: Alice at April 9, 2010 12:36 PM
Posted by: Alice at April 9, 2010 12:36 PM
There is nothing to "wrestle" with when it comes to what God means for me. God isn't a sentient being that has a specific agenda and the more I see the work of "his" many diverse and equally destructive followers acting under the various names "he" is known by, the more this is apparent to me. What God means to me is a sort of life spirit or power that flows through everything. It doesn't have a gender (so "he" is the wrong pronoun) and it doesn't have a consciousness; it just is. It doesn't require observance of religious obligations or supplication, it doesn't judge you, it doesn't have a "heaven" or "hell" set aside based on how you act in life, and there isn't one religion or belief system that has a monopoly on "God's will"--all spiritual beliefs have truth to them. This is a peaceful, neutral way of looking at the "higher power" and as you can see, does not lend itself to finding yourself in agreement or disagreement with "God".Posted by: Anne at April 9, 2010 12:51 PM
It sounds like your god is "you".
God has revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ and He's nothing at all like the god you have described.
Rather than listen to any of us here why don't you seek Him out yourself in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The promise is that we will find Him if we seek Him with all our heart.
He loves you.Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 9, 2010 1:07 PM
But Anne, can you not see? You say that God "doesn't judge you" and "doesn't have a 'heaven' or 'hell' set aside based on how you act in life," yet you yourself have been very judgmental toward many of us here, including Anna, whom you predict will be sentenced to a sort of hell on earth if she has a baby at 18.
The God that many of us here believe in is a God who understands human beings so well because he once lived among us as Jesus and loved each of us so much that he allowed us to torture and kill him and then forgave us for it, and asks us to forgive one another in the same way. Many of us over the centuries have failed (big time) to love and forgive each other in that way, but that is our failure, not the failure of the God we believe in, who continues to love us even though we fail again and again. Our God is not indifferent but our God doesn't force us to do anything, even if it means we continue to harm one another and ourselves. The choice to love, or not, is ours. You are pro-choice: what will you choose?Posted by: Alice at April 9, 2010 1:16 PM
And let's say, for the heck of it, that there is no God. How does that justify hurting someone? We're all just going to die anyway, so we might as well do whatever we want while we're on earth and not care about the consequences?
If you think Anna is absolutely incapable of raising her child and having a happy, successful life - which none of us believe she is - why wouldn't you encourage her to put the baby up for adoption instead? Anna goes to college without a child to raise, the baby's adoptive parents are happy to get a new son or daughter, the baby has fun learning to crawl and playing with brightly-colored toys. No one's dead and no one's "life is ruined."Posted by: Marauder at April 9, 2010 1:28 PM
To Pro Choice Gal -
This may or may not have any impact on you but here is an interesting video on the subject of rape pregnancy. Maybe you have seen it.
Of course I will never experience the traumatic feelings of being pregnant after rape. It just seems as though an abortion would not automatically heal the trauma, would not change the reality that pregnancy occurred or un-rape you. However, a life would be ended, gone forever. Also gone would be the possibility, the likelihood actually, that healing from the trauma could be enhanced through the pregnancy and birth. The pro-life initiative does not involve coercion but is instead meant to help and heal. (That is a point you do not seem to accept). I hope you realize that there is another side to consider. I think it is an injustice to women (and the children killed), to offer abortion as the best and only solution to a rape pregnancy.Posted by: jim sable at April 9, 2010 2:15 PM
"However, a life would be ended, gone forever."
It'd be two lives if I couldn't end the pregnancy. Me and the fetus.
"Also gone would be the possibility, the likelihood actually, that healing from the trauma could be enhanced through the pregnancy and birth"
For me, going through a rape pregnancy would be like being raped for 9 MONTHS STRAIGHT. How would being tortured for that long help anyone?
You're pretty much saying that you're sorry that I was raped, you just wish that I could have been tortured and traumatized even further. That is not healing, that is not helpful.
"I think it is an injustice to women..to offer abortion as the best and only solution to a rape pregnancy."
Whoever said that it was the only option? For me, I would have had two options. Having an abortion or killing myself. Going through 9 more months of rape would not have been a viable option.Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 9, 2010 2:46 PM
Can we please stop saying rape pregnancy? I have friends that conceived after being raped and now have BEAUTIFUL children that have redeemed the pain of the rape. They do not regret letting their children live.Posted by: carla at April 9, 2010 2:58 PM
No, I will not saying rape pregnancy. It's great that they had that CHOICE.Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 9, 2010 2:59 PM
Yeah. Ok thanks PCG. Appreciate it. :P
Suicide is a choice. Your parents would have lost you and their grandchild at the same time.Posted by: carla at April 9, 2010 3:02 PM
Pro Choice Gal -
The help is always available, a constant. It is an individual decision to seek it and accept it.
Will you check out the video? There are answers to your questions.Posted by: jim sable at April 9, 2010 3:04 PM
I'd prefer not to be triggered right now. Trying to recover from rape with rape apologists in the world is like trying to climb a mountain when there's always someone at the top who will push you back down.Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 9, 2010 3:06 PM
It is obvious to every one here that you are still in need of help, PCG. You are still hurting. When there has been healing from trauma there is peace, not the anger and bitterness that you so generously share here and at your blog.
I am ignoring your rape apologist comment to ask you what kind of help did you receive after the rape?Posted by: carla at April 9, 2010 3:12 PM
Then stop provoking it, dear PCG, and go get some real help right where you are. Many of us have been through it and come out healed. Lots of love and support offered and available here too if you want it. As long as you stick around here, that's how it's going to be. :)Posted by: Alice at April 9, 2010 3:13 PM
Is not God the source of all human life?
Yes, rape is terrible but, somehow and for some reason God allows a baby to be concieved even out of a terrible incident.
What does this tell you about God?
Do spring flowers arise from the dead, hard, frozen ground of winter?
Can God allow a human being to be concieved out of a rape and not make that child a blessing to the world?
I think, no, I know He can.Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at April 9, 2010 3:30 PM
You've made some great new sincere friends here. If you are pregnant, please add me to the list of those willing to help in any way I can. We could maybe have a long-distance baby shower with some of the wonderful women here (and you guys too!) and send you some of the things you might need -- or just want.
I'm having a baby shower for my best friend next month. She's 43 and due on June 12th. I can't wait to meet her little guy! Her other two children are 16 and 17 so she doesn't have many things left for a little one. I also just found out 15 minutes ago that a co-worker is due in October. I can't wait to look for baby things for her too!
Keep us up-to-date. It's nice hearing from you.Posted by: Praxedes at April 9, 2010 3:44 PM
you know what anne, i think that the reason your couldn't reach people is because you only look at one side. you use scare tactics to try to get your way but they don't work on some people. including me. yes i came from a trailer park but i've lived in a really crappy trailer and ive lived in really nice ones. i have friends with trailers better than the apartment i used to live in. before you down talk trailers think. you have no idea what trailer parks are like here or how much they cost. some are crap yea but there are alot that are expensive.
i feel for you and i am very glad you didn't kill yourself. if you want someone to talk to i will be glad to talk to you :)
Thanks for the support. Sending good vibes your way, anna ♥♥♥Posted by: ProChoiceGal at April 9, 2010 3:55 PM
Posted by: Praxedes at April 9, 2010 3:44 PM
thank you very much and i hope everything goes perfect for your friend and co worker.
i love shopping for baby stuff for showers lol.Posted by: anna at April 9, 2010 3:58 PM
PCG and Anna,
Bethany(another moderator)just had a beautiful baby boy named Ian yesterday....go see the photo!! :)
Sydney and Elisabeth,
I want to thank you for your kind words about my story. I cherish what you have said!!
Thank you for praying! Love you!
she doesn't have pictures up... or am i not looking in the right spot?
the other children are beautiful thoPosted by: anna at April 9, 2010 4:46 PM
Go to Jill's post called Bethany's bouncing baby boy. :)
Can't help but comment about trailor park living, etc. Please note my story about my friend "Cathy" see above...... When "Cathy" had her abortion 12 years ago, she was in nursing school. She feared that the baby would ruin her dreams of finishing school and having nice things. There was 100% no talking her out of that abortion at the time. Today she has a lot of material things. A home, a car, a great paying job, yet when we talk she is sad and says "There is just something missing." "I'm always so sad."...... Was it the abortion? I feel it is. No amount of money can replace a lost human life.Posted by: Heather at April 9, 2010 5:46 PM
Abortion changed my friend. I think a part of her died the day she had the abortion.Posted by: Heather at April 9, 2010 6:41 PM