Billboard welcomes Obama to Flint today

Just a few minutes ago doors opened to the Kettering University auditorium in Flint, MI, where Barack Obama is scheduled to give a speech at 11:45a EST on jobs and the economy.

Little did Flint Right to Life and Black Americans for Life know when they co-sponsored this billboard in front of the college awhile back that it might be read by such a prominent promoter of black genocide:

abortion kills black babies 2.jpg

[HT: Judy Climer, president of FlintRTL]


Comments:

A "prominent promoter of black genocide"?

This may be a new high-water mark for your brand of hyperbole, hysteria and hate.

For those who live in the real world, Obama gave an excellent speech yesterday on responsibilities of fatherhood, but of course that would never be mentioned by Jill.

Posted by: Bystander at June 16, 2008 10:23 AM


Little did Flint Right to Life and Black Americans for Life know when they co-sponsored this billboard in front of the college awhile back that it might be read by such a prominent promoter of black genocide:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Promoter of black genocide?

You do know that the birthrate of African Americans in this country is WAY greater than the birthrate of White or Asian Americans?
You also know that African-Americans are the second-fastest growing racial demographic in America - right behind Hispanics, but without the advantage of immigration?

Where is this "genocide?"

Posted by: Laura at June 16, 2008 10:30 AM


Laura, get new lines. We've gone through this before. Blacks used to be the #1 minority but is now #2 thanks to abortion.

And bystander, don't worry, I'm getting to Obama's speech yesterday. You, like all other pro-aborts I've been reading who commented on that speech, have a blind eye.

Posted by: Jill Stanek at June 16, 2008 10:43 AM


What's your point, Laura?

There's a lot of them already, so there's no way that people could be killing a lot of them?

There are a ton of deer in the forest down the block from my house... so I don't believe that silly myth that "hunters" track them down and kill them.

Seriously, you and Bystander need to read up on previous posts about the ridiculously high rate that black children are aborted before you post here and make fools of yourselves.

Posted by: Alex at June 16, 2008 10:45 AM


Bystander:

No credible speech on fatherhood could ever be delivered by a pro-abort.

This would be like a Nazi giving a speech on the merits of Zionism.

Posted by: HisMan at June 16, 2008 10:55 AM


Seriously, you and Bystander need to read up on previous posts about the ridiculously high rate that black children are aborted before you post here and make fools of yourselves.

Posted by: Alex at June 16, 2008 10:45 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wow! It seems that African-American women are the ones perpetrating this "black genocide."

I guess tha only way to stop the genocide is to shoot all the African-American women. (

Of course, these are the same women whose birthrates outpace White and Asian Americans by a wide margin...)

Posted by: Laura at June 16, 2008 11:03 AM


Hal,

John McCain has asked Obama to particiapte in 10 town hall meeting debates...Mr Obama said he'd be up for a debate, but he only wants 2. One question and answer, focusing on the military and economy only, and one where they each give speeches (Oh goody, more speeches from Barack!)

And he wants the Q and A one to be held on the fourth of July...hahahahahahhaa...Gee, do you think he wants to make sure that there are no Americans around to hear it!?!?!

Posted by: mk at June 16, 2008 11:04 AM


bystander says: " Obama gave an excellent speech yesterday on responsibilities of fatherhood,"

Yes, he did. Problem is, he doesn't think that fatherhood begins until after his child is born. By Obama's standards, a "responsible" Dad will assist the Mom to kill their child in the womb.

Want to know what a father is?

father verb
to become the father of a child by making a woman pregnant:
He's fathered three children.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=28157&dict=CALD

Posted by: Doyle at June 16, 2008 11:06 AM


Perfect billboard! What timing!

Posted by: Carla at June 16, 2008 11:07 AM


Laura:

If you're asking me to condone the actions of a mother who aborts her child, you will not find it. If you are asking me to condone punishment upon them, you will not find it. I feel for them - I doubt that it is often an easy decision. A wrong one... but a difficult one.

I find fault with abortionists who prey upon those in such a difficult situation by offering them a $500 "solution to their problem."

...and the politicians who want to give those abortionists more money.

You write: "I guess tha only way to stop the genocide is to shoot all the African-American women." I don't get the joke. Are you suggesting I want to shoot pregnant women? Or are you suggesting we should?

Posted by: Alex at June 16, 2008 11:31 AM


And he wants the Q and A one to be held on the fourth of July...hahahahahahhaa...Gee, do you think he wants to make sure that there are no Americans around to hear it!?!?!
Posted by: mk at June 16, 2008 11:04 AM

MK, the leader in any election wants less debate, the one trailing always wants more (hoping for a gaff or other game changer)

Posted by: Hal at June 16, 2008 11:42 AM


thats excellent... i hope he was able to see it.

Posted by: StudentFL at June 16, 2008 11:44 AM


Maybe we should stop telling African Americans what to do? White people used to say slavery was good because we were converting them to Christianity and saving them from their "savage" ways. Why don't we just trust them to make the right decisions for themselves? Who are you to tell them how many children to have or when to have sex?

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 11:46 AM


Maybe he wants a day when he can focus on real issues, instead of the "all important" one of lapel pins. Since the proponents of this kind of faux patriotism will be otherwise engaged, celebrating their god given american right to eat hot dogs and let off firecrackers while staying home from work.

Posted by: JKeller at June 16, 2008 11:49 AM


"The infant mortality rate among infants of black mothers is more than double that for whites. "


http://www.hhs.gov/news/factsheet/infant.html

...and that you can't blame on abortion. Any billboards for that one? Or does it stop being important to protect their lives once they're born?

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 11:52 AM


...and that you can't blame on abortion. Any billboards for that one? Or does it stop being important to protect their lives once they're born?

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 11:52 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wonder if they raise money for THOSE funerals?
Or do they just fly priests in for "fetus funerals?"

Posted by: Laura at June 16, 2008 11:56 AM


Hal:

I think that you underestimate John McCain. He is a skilled politician.

And Obama is now being deceived by the press releases of a media that is totally out of sync with most Americans and in decline. There only hope for survival is to help elect a President that will be beholding to them. Americans are much smarter than that.

Remember that McCain is skilled in the art of war and was able to survive a POW camp for five years, essentailly beating his captors at their own mind game.

Obama makes a crucial mistake by failing to confront his Goliath.

Pride goes before a fall, and Obama's head is so big, it's about to explode with the air it's filled with. This is not the type of leader Americans are looking for.

Posted by: HisMan at June 16, 2008 11:57 AM


"Obama makes a crucial mistake by failing to confront his Goliath."

Didn't David win?

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 11:59 AM


Hisman, Obama will slaughter McCain in the debates. Personally, I can't wait.

Don't underestimate Obama. He beat Senator Clinton against all odds.

Posted by: Hal at June 16, 2008 12:03 PM


Didn't David win?

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 11:59 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Can you just see Barack placing a Centum Silver tablet in a Depends undergarment and flinging it at McCain?)

Posted by: Laura at June 16, 2008 12:04 PM


Well personally I support this canidate:
http://hamsterforpresident.com/

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 12:07 PM


Amanda,

Nice spin. How about we compare the mortality numbers, with the abortion rate for blacks and see which one affects more lives.

Posted by: Charles at June 16, 2008 12:26 PM


haha Charles. Posting STATISTICS is now a "spin"?

Sadly, there is no spin needed.

Link me to one pro life group that is putting equal pressure on abortion AND infant mortality in the African American community and I will HAPPILY be proven wrong. I looked at the Flint Right To Life group, and saw NO mention of the infant mortality rates. What good is it to be "pro" the life of babies if your concern ends at birth?

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 12:47 PM


Jess:

That's the point. David only won because he confronted Goliath.

Obama refuses to do this as he thinks he's already got it in the bag. He's exactly where we want him.

Hal:

Hillary beat herself. When the media realized she couldn't beat McCain they demonized her. Goes to show you the character of the media, they're kind of like Baskin & Robbins Flavor of the Month Club.

Laura:

Rather than insult you back, I'm going to try to be more constructive. Therefore, I'm counting your insults this week and categorizing them as they develop:

Laura's Insult Tally for the Week of June 16, 2006:

Pregnant Black Women - 1
All Blacks - 1
Black Babies in the Womb - 1
Black Women who regret their abortions - 1
Your Elders - 1
God - *
Pro-Lifers - *
Catholic Priests - 1
All Catholics - 1
President Bush - *
HisMan - *

* TBD

Posted by: HisMan at June 16, 2008 12:47 PM


HisMan, Hillary made some mistakes, but they were mostly forced errors after Iowa. I'd like to see Obama debate McCain more because I think he'd mop the floor with him, and do it with a smile and a few kind words. He is a world class politican.

By the way, I assume there will be more than two debates. We're still in the negotiation phase. You wouldn't want Obama to agree to any meeting without some preconditions would you?


Posted by: Hal at June 16, 2008 1:00 PM


Hey Jasper -

Remember a few weeks ago we were sparring a bit about our glorious commander in chief, and I made a comment about the war in Iraq taking attention away from Afghanistan, where force was actually justified and needed, allowing the Taliban to remain in control, and you kinda laughed it off as me just being a clueless liberal?

Well.... http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/06/16/afghanistan/index.html

Tell me HONESTLY if we'd not stretched our military and our money so poorly in Iraq, that this would be happening, that the TALIBAN has REGAINED CONTROL of several Afghani villages, almost 8 years after 9/11??

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 1:16 PM


...and that you can't blame on abortion. Any billboards for that one? Or does it stop being important to protect their lives once they're born?

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 11:52 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Congratulations, you've successfully convinced me that black people are more likely in this world to live in cruddy conditions with poor health care than white people.

If only more of them would abort, we wouldn't have that ridiculous mortality-rate problem, huh?

I really mean it this time: Do you people actually think about what you're saying before you click "post"?

Posted by: Alex at June 16, 2008 1:23 PM


"If only more of them would abort, we wouldn't have that ridiculous mortality-rate problem, huh?

I really mean it this time: Do you people actually think about what you're saying before you click "post"?"


Hahaha, Alex, I will kindly bounce that question back to you... unless you can show me where I said more, if any, should be having abortions.

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 1:25 PM


Jess:
Sorry but we Canadians are way ahead of you AMericano's at this stuff. We have been doing this for years with our Rhinoceras Party whose platform has included the following (from wikipedia)platform promises of the Rhinoceros Party included:

*Repealing the law of gravity
*Paving Manitoba to create the world's largest parking lot

*Providing higher education by building taller schools
*Instituting English, French and illiteracy as Canada's three official languages
*Tearing down the Rocky Mountains so that Albertans could see the Pacific sunset
*Making Montreal the Venice of North America by damming the St. Lawrence River
*Abolishing the environment because it's too hard to keep clean and it takes up so much space

*Annexing the United States, which would take its place as the third territory, after the Yukon and the Northwest Territories (Nunavut did not yet exist) in Canada's backyard, in order to eliminate foreign control of Canada's natural resources
*Ending crime by abolishing all laws

*Paving the Bay of Fundy to create more parking in the Maritimes

*Turning Montreal's Saint Catherine Street into the world's longest bowling alley

*Adopting the British system of driving on the left; this was to be gradually phased in over five years with large trucks and tractors first, then buses, eventually including small cars and bicycles last


*Selling the Canadian Senate at an antique auction in California

*Putting the national debt on Visa

*Declaring war on Belgium because a Belgian cartoon character, Tintin, killed a rhinoceros in one of the cartoons

*Offering to call off the proposed Belgium-Canada war if Belgium delivered a case of mussels and a case of Belgian beer to Rhinoceros "Hindquarters" in Montréal (the Belgian Embassy in Ottawa did, in fact, do this)

*Painting Canada's coastal sea limits in watercolour so that Canadian fish would know where they were at all times

*Banning guns and butter, since both kill

*Banning lousy Canadian winters

*Renaming the country Nantucket

*Building a bridge spanning the country, from Vancouver Island to Newfoundland

*Making the Trans-Canada Highway one way only.

*Changing Canada's currency to bubble gum, so it could be inflated or deflated at will.

Unfortunately, the Rhino party has been defunct for a few years now.


Posted by: Patricia at June 16, 2008 1:26 PM


Alex, do you really think having as many children as you can helps anything?

Maybe we should just stop throwing as many black men in prison as we do.
http://www.luc.edu/curl/cfm40/issue8.html
I think just as many white people are racist against black people now as in the 60's. I think most white people now are scared of them. So it's definitely more of our problem but it effects them so negatively.

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 1:39 PM


Beautiful board, Judy!!

Keep pressing.

May the Good Lord bless this effort mightily!


Posted by: lesforlife at June 16, 2008 1:41 PM


Yes Patricia, but were they soft, fluffy and warm?

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 1:43 PM


Hal:

I wouldn't mind the debates either.

I think Obama makes a mistake when he thinks he's negotiating from a position of strength.

Right now, McCain is playing him like a fiddle.

I've known McCain for years and in Arizona, where we have an extreme leftist lesbian, pro-gay, pro-abortion Governor in Janet Naploitano, he smokes every liberal candidate for Senator that he's run against....go figure. How does Janet do that? By running as a conservative. Obama won't be able to do that...he's sunk.

Amanda:

What a spin. The casualties in Iraq are less now than in Afghanistan because we're making great inroads in Iraq and pressuring Iran. Also, because there's less bad news in Iraq, CNN is now focusing on any glipmse of bad news in Afghanistan. Thank God these mindnumbing idiots weren't around after we defeated Germany and Japan after WWII. Besides I wouldn't believe anything out of the Communist News Network feed, a treasonous organization. You should be praising this great accomplishment of President Bush. If what was being done in Iraq and the prez was Gore, Clinton, Obama, or any other Liberal, you and the media would be worshipping at his/her feet. It's a real shame you can't recognize or even express the real truth.

Won't be long before we mop up in Afghanistan if only pro-aborts like you would get out of the way.

Posted by: HisMan at June 16, 2008 1:49 PM


Won't be long before we mop up in Afghanistan if only pro-aborts like you would get out of the way.
Posted by: HisMan at June 16, 2008 1:49 PM

How do "pro aborts" interefere with the war effort in Afganistan in any way?????

Posted by: Hal at June 16, 2008 1:52 PM


"Besides I wouldn't believe anything out of the Communist News Network feed, a treasonous organization."

Umm... it was an AP/Reuters release posted on CNN. Are you saying its a lie? Wishful thinking. Pathetic, wishful thinking.

"You should be praising this great accomplishment of President Bush. If what was being done in Iraq and the prez was Gore, Clinton, Obama, or any other Liberal, you and the media would be worshipping at his/her feet. It's a real shame you can't recognize or even express the real truth."

Again...pathetic wishful thinking. You again display your arrogance by PRETENDING to know what I'd think if someone else had started a war over NOTHING.

"Won't be long before we mop up in Afghanistan if only pro-aborts like you would get out of the way."

Oh really? We're in the way? Could you explain that? I must have missed the Fox News broadcast that explained how Liberals were forming a protective barrier around the Taliban. *eyeroll*

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 1:56 PM


I did not realize Amanda was fighting on the side of the Taliban in Afghanistan until I read HisMan's post. Amanda, please surrender, and bring Bin Laden out with you!

Posted by: Bystander at June 16, 2008 2:03 PM


Maybe we should just stop throwing as many black men in prison as we do.

Errr, maybe they could stop committing as many crimes as they do. Oh but wait, that's white people's fault toooo.

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at June 16, 2008 2:03 PM


I think the way white people have treated Africans and African Americans for so many years does contribute to it, yes.

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 2:07 PM


I did not realize Amanda was fighting on the side of the Taliban in Afghanistan until I read HisMan's post. Amanda, please surrender, and bring Bin Laden out with you!


Posted by: Bystander at June 16, 2008 2:03 PM

She can't because Bin Laden lives in Canada with the bobsled team.

Posted by: Patricia at June 16, 2008 2:11 PM


Amanda, you said: “Posting STATISTICS is now a "spin” …. Link me to one pro life group that is putting equal pressure on abortion AND infant mortality in the African American community and I will HAPPILY be proven wrong. I looked at the Flint Right To Life group, and saw NO mention of the infant mortality rates. What good is it to be "pro" the life of babies if your concern ends at birth?”

Another red herring from you, Amanda, let’s talk total numbers here. (I notice that you did not post any!) Are you really suggesting that the total number of children representing infant mortality is greater than or equal to the number of deaths due to abortion for the black community? Come one, post the numbers! Seems like a simple comparison to me. No spin here.

Posted by: Charles at June 16, 2008 2:11 PM


No, actually Jess, your victimization of black people is what has contributed to it. Keep letting people think they're victims that have no control over their lives, and pretty soon, that's where they end up.

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at June 16, 2008 2:12 PM


Well Elizabeth you have to admit they have been victimized severely in the past.

What do you think we should do?
Nothing?

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 2:17 PM


Jess & Elizabeth - When these types of discussions pop up, I always refer to Steve Biko.
Though he spoke of blacks in South Africa, not the US, the message is basically the same. Though the ORIGIN of oppression of blacks is indeed racism and discrimination from whites, but the responsibility to rise above it lies just as much with blacks as with whites.
This was called the Black Consciousness Movement, and though Biko was murdered on 9/11/77, I think his ideas are just as valid today. I think looking at it from his perspective would eliminate a lot of racial tension in this country.

"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed."

Steve Biko - Speech in Cape Town, 1971

"It becomes more necessary to see the truth as it is if you realise that the only vehicle for change are these people who have lost their personality. The first step therefore is to make the black man come to himself; to pump back life into his empty shell; to infuse him with pride and dignity, to remind him of his complicity in the crime of allowing himself to be misused and therefore letting evil reign supreme in the country of his birth."

Steve Biko, 1977.

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 2:20 PM


I agree Jess. IN.THE.PAST.

Do you even know why lots of black men end up in jail?

It's because boys are naturally more aggressive than girls, and since a lot of black men are raised as boys in single-parent households, they are never taught how to handle such aggression. They are often diagnosed at a very young age with disorders like ADD which they might not even have. This leads them to believe that they have no control over their behavior, that they are in fact victims. This also contributes to a lack of discipline by their mothers, because their mothers try to excuse the behavior, saying that they have this disorder and that's why they act that way. So, from a very young age they learn that they are victims and have no control over their own existence. Also, they may not even have ADD or other behavioral disorders, they just don't have a father who can help them channel that natural aggression or teach them how to handle it in a positive way. Like playing sports or something. So they grow up very angry thinking they can not control anything. And this anger comes out in violent acts, which land them in jail.

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at June 16, 2008 2:27 PM


Amanda,

I do agree that responsibility is on all sides. But nobody can make anyone else do better. All you can do is build up one's confidence and self-esteem that makes THEM want to do better. I'm not saying white people are blameless. Hardly. But to blame white people solely takes the responsibility ONCE AGAIN out of black people's hands for their own lives.

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at June 16, 2008 2:30 PM


"Are you really suggesting that the total number of children representing infant mortality is greater than or equal to the number of deaths due to abortion for the black community? Come one, post the numbers! Seems like a simple comparison to me. No spin here."


Uhhh... are we reading the same posts here?

WHERE did I indicate I thought the number was equal?

WHERE did I indicate I thought abortion was a better alternative?

Since you and Alex seem to be having some reading comprehension troubles, I will repeat my question. Could you please find me one pro life group that is just as concerned with the high rate of infant mortality in blacks as the high rate of abortion in blacks? Otherwise, if none exist, why does the death of black babies matter less AFTER they've been born?

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 2:30 PM


"It's because boys are naturally more aggressive than girls, and since a lot of black men are raised as boys in single-parent households, they are never taught how to handle such aggression"

I think we need more physical education in our schools. Better to put all that aggression into, say hurdles, then on other kids.

And I think the ADD and ADHD is just thrown around today with wild abandon with most people. Just like depression. It's normal to be depressed when your life is crap. But for me, I was constantly depressed and paranoid no matter how my life was going.

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 2:36 PM


I would say Amanda, that Concerned Women of America (which is prolife) would be one group concerned with the high rate of infant mortality for all children, not just African-Americans. The work on behalf of women and children for a variety of causes including pornography, sex trafficking etc.

Posted by: Patricia at June 16, 2008 2:37 PM


"I think we need more physical education in our schools. Better to put all that aggression into, say hurdles, then on other kids."

Very VERY true. Instead, the opposite is happening. Urban schools are in such tough shape to begin with, and when their funding depends on test scores, music and phys ed are the first things to get cut.

While I was doing the teen mom group, another one of my classmates was working on an intiative to get free after school gym/phys ed for middle school boys in Harlem because 4 schools there completely eliminated phys ed. It was like pulling teeth just getting an empty basketball court in a safe place.

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 2:40 PM


I agree Jess and Amanda.

I would also love to see more grown black men mentoring these young boys so they can see a positive male influence.

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at June 16, 2008 2:47 PM


Jess,
The problem is that boys need the EXAMPLE of a man and how he handles stress, anger and his physical needs. Without a father in the home, there is no example. While physical activity is important, young men do not learn what they need from this. They need to see how a grown man interacts with women (his father with his mother for example) and how he deals with conflict and personal problems.
Left to their own devices, young men develop a herd mentality or that of a predator.They don't see themselves in the role of a "protector".

Posted by: Patricia at June 16, 2008 2:48 PM


I majored in Movement Science for a year and a half in college and I have 14 seasons worth of running with a team. I would love to help start an inner city athletic team for underprivileged children. Were would I go to do that?

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 2:48 PM


"The problem is that boys need the EXAMPLE of a man and how he handles stress, anger and his physical needs."

My Dad could help me.

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 2:50 PM


Patricia,

They develop a predatory attitude because they're more angry about how they've been hurt by not having their father as an active part in their life. When one abandons a child, that child is likely going to grow up wanting to hurt somebody else over the way the've been hurt.

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at June 16, 2008 2:55 PM


" Were would I go to do that?"

Pretty much ANY urban school which has cut phys ed to save money and devote more time to the standardized tests. I'm partial to Harlem of course because I spent so much time there, but I think pretty much all urban schools are going through the same thing since NCLB was passed.

As long as you knew it wouldn't be a paying gig!
=)


Patricia, I checked out the site, and I could only find one article regarding black infant mortality, but it only addressed homicide specifically, and placed the blame entirely on cohabitation. Premature birth, accidents and congential defects are far more common causes of infant death than homicide, but those were not even mentioned in this article.

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 3:00 PM


"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed"

I like this quote.

There's another good one in the book I'm reading by Bill Cosby:

"When you have people who tell you, "You can't get up, you're a victim," that's when you know that it's the devil you're hearing, no one else."

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at June 16, 2008 3:04 PM


Amanda, Here is another example of another pro-life group concerned about the unborn and the born black community.

July 09, 2007
MLK Niece Urges NAACP to Adopt Anti-Abortion Resolution
from The Christian Post

by Eric Young

The niece of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. has called for the national convention of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People to adopt a resolution passed by the group's chapter in Macon, Ga., that addresses the impact abortion has had on the African American community....

...."The NAACP has always been about justice," said Dr. Alveda King, pastoral associate of Priests for Life, the nation’s largest Catholic pro-life organization. "Today, there is no greater injustice facing black people than abortion.”

.....More specifically, King’s hope is for the NAACP consider the resolution adopted this year by its Macon chapter, which urges the national body to undertake efforts to reduce the high abortion and infant mortality rates in the black community and to reduce the disproportionately high black inmate population.

for the complete article see:
http://www.streamingfaith.com/community/news/news.aspx?NewsId=1013

Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2008 3:09 PM


Yessum, I believe Bill Cosby is a fan of Steve Biko. Not sure where I read/heard that, but I'm pretty sure I have heard Cosby talk about him.

If you're interested at all, theres a book by a white south african journalist who closely followed Biko through the last years of his life. Its called Cry Freedom, by Donald Woods. Woods and his whole family had to escape from S. Africa after he published the truth of how Biko died. The government actually tried to poison his children to keep him from telling the truth. He spent the rest of his life in London, and just died last year.

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 3:12 PM


Jkeller and Hal,

MK, the leader in any election wants less debate, the one trailing always wants more (hoping for a gaff or other game changer)

Maybe he wants a day when he can focus on real issues, instead of the "all important" one of lapel pins. Since the proponents of this kind of faux patriotism will be otherwise engaged, celebrating their god given american right to eat hot dogs and let off firecrackers while staying home from work.
Posted by: JKeller at June 16, 2008 11:49 AM


Yeah, that must be it. *snicker*

Posted by: mk at June 16, 2008 3:15 PM


I majored in Movement Science for a year and a half in college and I have 14 seasons worth of running with a team. I would love to help start an inner city athletic team for underprivileged children. Were would I go to do that?

Posted by: Jess at June 16, 2008 2:48 PM

Jess, check out" Boy and Girls Clubs", Catholic Charities, Social Service Organizations, in the phone book, also online. Google Athletics for inner city kids, etc...Your local professional sports teams/or sports stars may have affiliated organizations that get involved with helping underprivileged kids as well. Those would be a good place to start.

Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2008 3:17 PM


Amanda,

Link me to one pro life group that is putting equal pressure on abortion AND infant mortality in the African American community and I will HAPPILY be proven wrong. I looked at the Flint Right To Life group, and saw NO mention of the infant mortality rates. What good is it to be "pro" the life of babies if your concern ends at birth?

That's like me asking you if you don't care about white children in the US since the only ones you went off to help were black children in Africa.

We both know that's not true, and we both know that we can't save the whole world. There are plenty of people in the world. If each person stood behind a cause and worked as tirelessly for theirs as we do for ours, (yours and mine), we wouldn't be having this conversation.

When's the last time you visited the Alzheimers ward? Don't you care about old people? Or do you only care about children? Once they reach adulthood, you cease being concerned?

You get my point, I'm sure.

Posted by: mk at June 16, 2008 3:20 PM


"Life Issues Institute Director Brad Mattes, however, suggested that the biggest reason for the lack of involvement is the lack of effort by pro-life groups to attract black members.

"The pro-life movement has been well-intended but has not communicated effectively with the African-American community," he told the Post-Dispatch.

Whatever the reason, pro-life African Americans such as King are hoping that NAACP leaders “maintain its status as a champion of social justice,” as the group states in its website, and utilize “the talent and tenacity of NAACP members that has saved lives and changed many negative aspects of American society.”


Very interesting Janet. Thanks for the link. I wonder if part of the reason is the constant disapproval of the NAACP from Pro Lifers, including many on this site. Also, while Dr. King did refernce black infant mortality, I went on to the Priests for Life site and found nothing.

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 3:23 PM


Amanda, your claim is that since the mortality rate in the first year is greater for blacks that the abortion argument is without merit. I contend that the mortality rate affects a smaller portion of the black population as do the murders that occur in the womb. So, again, I ask, put up some numbers.

Posted by: Charles at June 16, 2008 3:25 PM


no, MK, I have to strongly disagree with you here.

The groups name is Flint Right to LIFE. And they are claiming to be concerned about the LIFE of African American babies.

Does it only matter by which METHOD they die, instead of the fact that they are dying?

Abortion is only one method. It seems absurd to focus only on that, if you are truly concerned with the Right to LIFE, rather than focusing on abortion alone. If that is their only goal, there name is misleading.

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 3:27 PM


"Amanda, your claim is that since the mortality rate in the first year is greater for blacks that the abortion argument is without merit. "


F for reading comprehension for you today my friend.

Thats not my claim at all. Please indicate where I claimed that.

Maybe if you stopped trying to pretend what my argument is about and actually responded to my statements, we'd be able to have a conversation.

I never stated that one had priority or greatness over the other. So unless you can somehow show me where I indicated that, the only person you're arguing with is yourself.

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 3:30 PM


Amanda,

C'mon...we both know right to life has to do with have the legal "right" to be born and not aborted. If black women were getting prenatal care, they would have less infant mortality.

No one is forcing them not to get prenatal care. They have the "RIGHT" to prenatal care. Right to life is all about rights.

Posted by: mk at June 16, 2008 3:32 PM


So then you agree their agenda ends as soon as the baby is born. And thats what I have a problem with.

Life is life. And if it ends prematurely or unfairly, I don't think the METHOD of death is the biggest issue, but the REASON.

And the REASON that the rates of infant mortality AND abortion are so high in black populations come down to the same factors. So it just seems ridiculous, when the factors are the same, to only focus on one result of those factors as part of an agenda, and ignore the others.

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 3:40 PM


If black women were getting prenatal care, they would have less infant mortality

This is true. Lots of black women don't see a doctor once until about the 2nd or 3rd trimester of pregnancy.

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at June 16, 2008 3:42 PM


"In 2004, 83.9 percent of mothers began prenatal care within the first trimester of pregnancy (preliminary data). Disparities in access to prenatal care between non-Hispanic white, non-Hispanic black, and Hispanic mothers have narrowed during recent years. In 2004, the percentage of non-Hispanic black mothers who initiated first trimester prenatal care was 76.5 percent, compared to 77.4 percent for Hispanic mothers and 88.9 percent for non-Hispanic white mothers. For mothers 15 to 19 years of age, 29 percent received no early prenatal care in 2004. "


For 30% of teen moms to have no early prenatal care is HUGE. Especially because teen moms are more likely to be involved in risky activities, AND are more prone to premature labor. And yet, offering prental education to THAT population is a 18k a year job. I could have made more working at McDonalds.

Thats what I'm trying to say. Here is one factor, of many, causing black women to either abort, or end up with a baby dying in infancy.

Why only focus on ONE outcome?

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 3:59 PM


Pro-aborts/Liberal, interchangeable.

Posted by: HisMan at June 16, 2008 5:36 PM


Jill, mods,

Sometimes when I'm writing a comment and don't open this box large enough, when it fills the box and I try to go back to make a revision, it starts typing crazy characters. Just now it changed a whole paragraph to gibberish. It gets to be annoying having to re-type.......anyone else having this trouble?

Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2008 6:24 PM


Amanda, I had a nice thoughtful post for you that was garbled, so anyways, to make it brief....If you want teens to be better informed,
I think the medical profession needs to step-up and take responsibility for the education of girls who are getting prescriptions for BC. Put a brochure on the counters at pharmacies, in bags with their prescriptions, posters on store windows, in bathrooms at schools. Inform them of the signs that they may be pregnant, why they need to quickly get prenatal vitamins from a doctor, etc...... Why should pro-lifers be expected to do EVERYTHING? Make doctors responsible.


Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2008 6:29 PM


woah Janet, thats odd. Do you have a PC or a Mac?

Does it matter if you have the window maximized, or minimized but big size?

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 6:30 PM


Amanda,
I have a Mac. I can drag my window as large as I want, I have a really big screen (not sure of size (24" maybe?).

I just played with it a bit and it may be OK. if I drag the comment box open and pull horizontally too much, it doesn't get big enough. If I drag the corner of the box down at more of a diagonal (45 degree angle) it seems to enlarge better. Sometimes I don't pay as much attention as I probably should. I have a Mac, by the way. Thanks for the response.

Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2008 6:42 PM


Janet,

Macs can act up with windows based programs, and I'm guessing Jill's blogging tools are windows based. I don't know why or how or how to fix it, but my bf is a computer engineer and does this stuff for a living. Of course he isn't here at the moment to explain to you in detail that will probably make your head spin, as to why its doing that. =)

As for your response, I agree. And I wasn't trying to say that the pro lifers have to be the only ones looking at these problems, but just that it seems counterproductive to go after a single consequence of a large problem, and ignore (for the most part) another equally important consequence caused by the same large problem.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2008 6:57 PM


HisMan, you wrote: "Pro-aborts/Liberal, interchangeable."

What a stupid thing to say. Counterexamples abound. Governor Bob Casey Sr (D-Pa), the liberal Democrat who was denied a speaking opportunity at one of the Democratic conventions because he was a right-to-lifer. Nat Hentoff, the Village Voice columnist who is liberal about everything except abortion.

Posted by: SoMG at June 16, 2008 7:01 PM


Whoops - that anon was me.

Also, SoMG, don't forget ultra conservative religious Pat Robertson, who is a supporter of abortion in China.

Posted by: Amanda at June 16, 2008 7:05 PM


Amanda,

So then you agree their agenda ends as soon as the baby is born. And thats what I have a problem with.

Does your agenda end when you leave Africa? What I'm saying is that this particular group has come together for the sole purpose of fighting for the legal right of all children to be born.

This does not mean that they don't also belong to other groups that do other things.

Food Pantry's are called Food Pantrys because they supply food. They don't build schools or give out antibiotics.

Habitat for Humanity doesn't supply groceries for the families whose homes they build. They build homes. Hence the name Habitats for Humanity.

Doctors without Borders doesn't teach math. They treat patients. Thats why they are called "doctors" with borders.

This group is called Flint Right to Life. That's what their focus is. It doesn't mean they, as individuals don't care about other causes. It means as an organized entity, they fight for the RIGHT, the legal RIGHT to life, of the unborn.

I head the pro life group at my church, but I have also volunteered at nursing homes, homeless shelters, and taught preschool in a low income neighborhood. One does not necessarily exclude the other.

Posted by: mk at June 16, 2008 7:57 PM


It is poor statistical analysis to blame the staus of African Americans from "#1 minority" to "#2" on abortion alone. Absent any real facts or figures, there are many other more scientifically valid causes for population decline that factor in (violence in homes, crime, heart disease, diabetes).

Posted by: Yo La Tango at June 16, 2008 7:57 PM


mk: 7:57: Perfectly said!

Speaking of doing more...We have a fundraiser every year at church to raise money for a Women's Center. We gave away baby bottles on Mother's Day and parishioners returned them on Father's Day filled with spare change. I spent the morning emptying those, and stuffing envelopes for next January's Right-to Life March in Washington, DC. (Talk about organized!) Fun, fun, fun!

Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2008 9:32 PM


Anon (Amanda) 6:57: As for your response, I agree. And I wasn't trying to say that the pro lifers have to be the only ones looking at these problems, but just that it seems counterproductive to go after a single consequence of a large problem, and ignore (for the most part) another equally important consequence caused by the same large problem.

Do you agree that maybe doctors and pharmacists should take on the responsibility of educating teen girls (who ask for BC) about how to identify the signs of pregnancy, and take the steps needed to ensure a healthy pregnancy? Of course they would then have to admit that BC isn't 100% effective, but that is the truth.....


Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2008 9:37 PM


Janet,

Are you in IL? What church do you go to? My church did the EXACT same thing. (Maybe it's popular I don't know)

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at June 16, 2008 10:21 PM


Elizabeth 10:21:
Yes I am. I'd rather not say here, but mk can tell you, I think! Send her an email!

Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2008 10:32 PM


OK! But I still think you go to my church! You know Joanne K?

Posted by: Elizabeth (Gabriella's Momma) at June 16, 2008 10:37 PM


E: 10:37: Maybe?? Ask mk! :)
(Filling the bottles with change IS a popular thing to do.)

Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2008 10:40 PM


It's entirely possible. I think I asked you (Elizabeth) about it on Aquarium Day. We fill bottles too, tho. I think most Catholic Churches do.

Just like we almost all sell flowers on Mother's Day.

We raised $16,000 on the baby bottles this year.

Posted by: mk at June 16, 2008 10:59 PM


Righteous sign. BHO's handiwork.

Posted by: truthseeker at June 16, 2008 11:05 PM


mk:
I'll let you know what we raised when we get a $$ count on the bottles!

Posted by: Janet at June 16, 2008 11:50 PM


Birthright, CareNet and other pregnancy alternative agencies do provide prenatal care for women.

But these organizations are often accused of providing women with misinformation, misleading women, etc., because they don't provide information about abortion.

Guess we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Posted by: Melissa at June 17, 2008 8:47 AM


Hi Melissa,
Hmmmm...must be why so many PC get so hot under the collar about pregnancy care centers. My favorite is when they say those that volunteer do NOTHING to help women.

Not damned at all if we help babies AND women. :)

Posted by: Carla at June 17, 2008 9:49 AM



http://www.klanparenthood.com

Posted by: Mike at June 17, 2008 9:49 AM


ABORTION! Because Lynching Is For Amateurs.

------

In America today, almost as many African-American children are aborted as are born.

A black baby is three times more likely to be murdered in the womb than a white baby.

Since 1973, abortion has reduced the black population by over 25 percent.

Twice as many African-Americans have died from abortion than have died from AIDS, accidents, violent crimes, cancer, and heart disease combined.

Every three days, more African-Americans are killed by abortion than have been killed by the Ku Klux Klan in its entire history.

Planned Parenthood operates the nation's largest chain of abortion clinics and almost 80 percent of its facilities are located in minority neighborhoods.

About 13 percent of American women are black, but they submit to over 35 percent of the abortions.

Mike

Posted by: Mike at June 17, 2008 9:56 AM


"Since 1973, abortion has reduced the black population by over 25 percent."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's a lie.
The % of African Americans in this country gets bigger every day, and the number of African Americans has grown steadily since 1973.

"About 13 percent of American women are black, but they submit to over 35 percent of the abortions."

Posted by: Mike at June 17, 2008 9:56 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope.
Not one has had to "submit" to an abortion.
They've sought abortion and plunked down good money for the privledge. They WANT those abortions.

Posted by: Laura at June 17, 2008 10:15 AM


Keep telling yourself that, Laura.

Posted by: Bethany at June 17, 2008 11:30 AM


Nope. Not one has had to "submit" to an abortion. They've sought abortion and plunked down good money for the privledge. They WANT those abortions.

No doubt, Laura. There seems to be some notion floating around that a given black woman is going to be "worried" that the black birth rate is only X amount higher than that for whites. Last I saw it was around 20% higher, i.e. if blacks are roughly at "replacement rate" - the 2.1 kids per woman area - then whites are at 1.7 or 1.6, something like that.

Heck, what if it was the same, or less? There's still nothing that says a given woman with an unwanted pregnancy would give two hoots about that kind of stuff.

Posted by: Doug at June 17, 2008 12:34 PM


Mike: Since 1973, abortion has reduced the black population by over 25 percent.

The truth is that black Americans increased in population some 63% from 1973 to 2007.

The black population went from 23 million+ to 38 million+.

Posted by: Doug at June 17, 2008 12:55 PM


Doug:

The truth really is that the African-American population would have been much, much larger than 38 million had so many of the chlidren not been murdered by abortion.

Based on your quote of 38 million and using the 25% figure, the US black population should be around 48-50 million or should have actaully doubled since 1973. That means 1 in 4 abortions were of black babies. Sad.

Now that's something Mrs. Obama should be really, really mad about, however, what I think she's mad about is that she's not as rich as the Clinton's or the McCain's......yet.

Bethany:

Aren't we all privileged to be able to sit under the tutelege and clairvoyance of Ms. Laura? One, who is able to express and make conclusions on the feelings, desires, and needs of millions of women.

Got a question about God? Ask Laura. Got a question about Death? Ask Laura. Got a question about Life? (Definitely don't ask Laura) Why, the next time I have a question about the Universe I'll just ask Laura. Perhaps Laura should start a wisdom search engine and call it....LauraLoo or HowdyDoody.

Why is that whenever she posts I feel dirty?

Posted by: HisMan at June 17, 2008 7:29 PM


Every child deserves better than to be aborted. Every child is wanted somewhere.
Adoption must become easier.
The conditions in inner cities that make it hard to create jobs must be changed.
The attitudes that ake it hard for a Black man ot find a job must change.
The attitude that jobs fall from the sky and require no preparation must change (and I spent decades learning what it takes to get and keep a job, I know it's hard, but parents and teachers can help).
Abortion must cease to be an option except when the mother's life is in danger.
Young people must have the option of working, including starting their own businesses or learning a skilled trade, and sports self-sufficiency and arts programs must be everywhere.
Consumers must stop giving money to entertainments that promote irresponsibility and violence as status symbols (regardless of race or sex).
Good, responsible, kind men of any race and any relationship to a child must find opportunities to help out and model responsible, caring male behavior.

Posted by: seagull at June 17, 2008 7:36 PM


HisMan: The truth really is that the African-American population would have been much, much larger than 38 million had so many of the chlidren not been murdered by abortion.

Well sure, same as for non-blacks.
....


Based on your quote of 38 million and using the 25% figure, the US black population should be around 48-50 million or should have actaully doubled since 1973. That means 1 in 4 abortions were of black babies. Sad.

But not necessarily so for the given woman. It's not like people are going, "Oh my goodness, we could have had so many more people if there had been no abortions, and thus I'm going to continue my pregnancy."
......


Now that's something Mrs. Obama should be really, really mad about, however, what I think she's mad about is that she's not as rich as the Clinton's or the McCain's......yet.

Geez, Dude, I don't know.... ; )

Posted by: Doug at June 17, 2008 9:51 PM


Hisman said: Based on your quote of 38 million and using the 25% figure, the US black population should be around 48-50 million or should have actaully doubled since 1973. That means 1 in 4 abortions were of black babies. Sad.

Doug said: But not necessarily so for the given woman.

That sentence doesn't even make sense in reply to Hisman's statement. A given woman must refer to a specific woman - who are you talking about??

It's not like people are going, "Oh my goodness, we could have had so many more people if there had been no abortions, and thus I'm going to continue my pregnancy."

That's exactly what people are saying, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion about black abortions!

Posted by: Janet at June 17, 2008 10:37 PM


Hisman said: Based on your quote of 38 million and using the 25% figure, the US black population should be around 48-50 million or should have actaully doubled since 1973. That means 1 in 4 abortions were of black babies. Sad.

Doug said: "But not necessarily so for the given woman."

Janet: That sentence doesn't even make sense in reply to Hisman's statement. A given woman must refer to a specific woman - who are you talking about??

It makes perfect sense. A given pregnant woman with an unwanted pregnancy isn't likely to reconsider based on the "numbers of people that could have been without legal abortion."
......

"It's not like people are going, "Oh my goodness, we could have had so many more people if there had been no abortions, and thus I'm going to continue my pregnancy."

That's exactly what people are saying, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion about black abortions!

Janet, show me some black women saying that and I'll acknowledge that you have a case.

Posted by: Doug at June 17, 2008 11:05 PM


Doug,

Janet, show me some black women saying that and I'll acknowledge that you have a case.

Alveda King...

"I know from personal experience that abortion causes depression, regret, and despair," King said. "If we love and welcome our children, optimism for the future can only increase."

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200711/CUL20071120a.html

Michele Jackson

http://www.euthanasia.com/blackw.html

However, the women suffering abortion in silence, and their dead children, are a part of our community in staggering numbers. We have the job of rallying the community to stop the killing of our children. We have the job of rallying the community to find better solutions to pregnancy than killing the baby, than pitting mother against child.

Sponsored by Black Americans for Life, these Black women, many of whom are post-abortive, gathered to candidly declare the truth that abortion kills children and hurts women.


http://www.nrlc.org/news/2006/NRL03/


There were two backdrops to this historic gathering. First, February is Black History Month. Second, "Since 1973, more than 14 million of our Black children have died this way, while most of us said nothing," said Day Gardner, president of Black Americans for Life.

Day Gardner

Black Americans for Life is a national organization committed to saving the lives of Black babies through education and outreach. It’s well known that Pro Life people work to protect the unborn wherever and whenever we can and explaining what happens to an unborn child in abortion is part of what BAL is all about.

We stress education and outreach because abortion is running rampant among minorities, especially within the Black community. It is necessary for all of us to take hold of the reins to stop this abomination. When African Americans understand the devastating effect abortion is having on our culture and ultimate survival as a race, they will respond!

http://www.nrlc.org/bal/

How many did you want Doug? I could go on...

Posted by: mk at June 18, 2008 6:20 AM


Oh mk, You are GOOD!!!!! Thanks!!!

Posted by: Janet at June 18, 2008 6:25 AM


Janet,

No problem my friend...

Posted by: mk at June 18, 2008 6:58 AM


Bravo, Marykay!

Posted by: Bethany at June 18, 2008 8:20 AM


"Every child deserves better than to be aborted. Every child is wanted somewhere."

***
Not true, not by a long shot. If that were the case, we wouldn't have over 500,000 children in the US foster care system - let alone the millions of children world wide who languish in orphanage because why? When they were born, their circumstances were such that no one could (or in some cases, wanted to) raise them.

Concentrate on emptying out the foster care system first. Demonstrate an equal fervor and passion for orphaned children as you do for fetuses/unborn babies. Then perhaps there would be a stronger PL argument for women to opt for continuing a pregnancy to term and giving the baby over vs choosing abortion.

Posted by: Danielle at June 18, 2008 12:26 PM


Dannielle:
You say "concetrate on emptying out the foster care system first". Said another way doesn't that mean let those in the womb die first. Is abortion a better solution than the current adoption/foster care system even with it's warts?

Since we're talking stats: in 1990 of the nearly 500,000 children in foster care, there were approx 130,000 waiting to be adopted. (Most of the 370,000 are reunited with parents.)

You also point out that many children are not wanted. That is true. Ex: China doesn't let parents have more than one child and so millions of GIRLS are killed or left on the side of the road. They are not wanted. But it is not a reason to kill them.

I leave you with a couple quotes from Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood - there are many more: "Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."

"Our failure to segregate morons who are increasing and multiplying… a dead weight of human waste… an ever-increasing, unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should have been born at all."

Posted by: bill at June 18, 2008 3:00 PM


Bill,

My (very) simplified answer is I would absolutely prioritize the needs of children living without families over the potential life of a fetus. Yes, absolutely.

Also I'm not moved by discussion on Sanger's underlying motivations for founding PP. Maybe she was a racist, maybe not - but the point is that PP now exists and in my viewpoint, profoundly and positively impacts the lives of women.

FYI, I am (obviously) a pro-choice voice on the board. I remain aware of the sensitivities of other's here, but will always respond with honesty.

Posted by: Danielle at June 18, 2008 6:32 PM


How many did you want Doug? I could go on...

MK, those women aren't pregnant as far as I know.

"It's not like people are going, 'Oh my goodness, we could have had so many more people if there had been no abortions, and thus I'm going to continue my pregnancy.'"

I realize there are black Pro-Lifers (of course). My point is that it's farfetched to think that a black woman with an unwanted pregnancy is going to be worrying about the extra population there could have been without legal abortion.

Posted by: Doug at June 18, 2008 7:39 PM


Hi Doug!!

Totally not getting into any kind of discussion with you tonight.....I just got 4 cherubs to bed. YAWN!!

Just wanted to say hi!! :)

Posted by: Carla at June 18, 2008 8:27 PM


Hiya C.

Posted by: Doug at June 18, 2008 10:16 PM


Doug: I realize there are black Pro-Lifers (of course). My point is that it's farfetched to think that a black woman with an unwanted pregnancy is going to be worrying about the extra population there could have been without legal abortion.

It must be a girl thing, that's all I can say.

Posted by: Janet at June 18, 2008 11:09 PM


Doug,

Janet, show me some black women saying that and I'll acknowledge that you have a case.

This was your request. Nowhere did you ask for pregnant black women. For the record Alveda King has been pregnant and aborted...

Posted by: mk at June 19, 2008 5:06 AM


Doug,

And what the heck difference does it make if they are pregnant now? They are black and they are pro life, focusing on the fact that blacks are being targeted and killed. They are expressing concern, specifically, that African Americans are having their numbers cut.

What would being pregnant change.

You said if I showed you some black women that are pro life and focusing on the repurcussions of abortion on the black community, you'd acknowledge we have a case. Did you lie?

Posted by: mk at June 19, 2008 5:14 AM


mk:

Doug can't comprehend the fact that anybody might actually miss or think twice about an already aborted baby. What's done is done, ya know? Ce la vie!

Posted by: Janet at June 19, 2008 10:30 AM


oops - C'est la vie!

Posted by: Janet at June 19, 2008 10:49 AM


"Janet, show me some black women saying that and I'll acknowledge that you have a case."

MK: This was your request. Nowhere did you ask for pregnant black women. For the record Alveda King has been pregnant and aborted...

Good grief, MK..... Here was the exchange:


Doug: "It's not like people are going, "Oh my goodness, we could have had so many more people if there had been no abortions, and thus I'm going to continue my pregnancy."

Janet: That's exactly what people are saying, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion about black abortions!

"Janet, show me some black women saying that and I'll acknowledge that you have a case."

(The "that" references what I said people are not saying, i.e. "thus I'm goinig to continue my pregnancy on the basis of all those people that could have been had there been no legal abortion.")

So, Ms. King had an unwanted pregnancy and had an abortion. Yeah, there too, it's not like she thought differently due to some "great epidemic" of "lost people" due to abortion having been legal.

Posted by: Doug at June 20, 2008 1:41 PM


Janet: mk: Doug can't comprehend the fact that anybody might actually miss or think twice about an already aborted baby. What's done is done, ya know? Ce la vie!

Baloney, Janet. The point is just what I have said, "A given pregnant woman with an unwanted pregnancy isn't likely to reconsider based on the "numbers of people that could have been without legal abortion."

Posted by: Doug at June 20, 2008 1:42 PM


MK: And what the heck difference does it make if they are pregnant now?

I didn't say it'd make any necessary difference, there.
......


They are black and they are pro life, focusing on the fact that blacks are being targeted and killed. They are expressing concern, specifically, that African Americans are having their numbers cut.

Again, that's not who I was referring to. However, I do think it's silly to presume they (as a group) are going to worry about "having their numbers cut" when their numbers are increasing more rapidly than non-blacks in the US.
......


What would being pregnant change.

Nothing, necessary, nor did I say it would.
.....


You said if I showed you some black women that are pro life and focusing on the repurcussions of abortion on the black community, you'd acknowledge we have a case. Did you lie?

No, you just weren't really following along, that's all.

Here is what I'd said along the way in this thread:

"No doubt, Laura. There seems to be some notion floating around that a given black woman is going to be "worried" that the black birth rate is only X amount higher than that for whites. Last I saw it was around 20% higher, i.e. if blacks are roughly at "replacement rate" - the 2.1 kids per woman area - then whites are at 1.7 or 1.6, something like that."

"Heck, what if it was the same, or less? There's still nothing that says a given woman with an unwanted pregnancy would give two hoots about that kind of stuff."
.....


To HisMan: "It's not like people are going, "Oh my goodness, we could have had so many more people if there had been no abortions, and thus I'm going to continue my pregnancy."
.....


To Janet: A given pregnant woman with an unwanted pregnancy isn't likely to reconsider based on the "numbers of people that could have been without legal abortion."
......

And to Janet again: ""It's not like people are going, "Oh my goodness, we could have had so many more people if there had been no abortions, and thus I'm going to continue my pregnancy."
.....


So, back to the point here - black women with unwanted pregnancies are not likely to think there is anything worrisome about silly notions of "black genocide" when the black population is still increasing, and growing much faster than the white population in the US, for example. It's not any significant factor that would make them change their minds about ending unwanted pregnancies, any more than the white birth rate would be for white women in the same way (even though the white birth rate is LESS than that of blacks).

Posted by: Doug at June 20, 2008 1:51 PM