This morning Oprah's show will be on "The Pregnant Man," which is also how newscasts are portraying her (see right).
Her. In reality, she's a terribly mixed up woman.
Born a beautiful girl named Tracy Beatie, she experienced a traumatic childhood with an absentee father and mother who committed suicide when Tracy was 12. Tracy experienced normal teenage dating years that included a modeling stint and being a Miss Hawaii Teen USA finalist....
In college Tracy supposedly discovered her "true gender identity," according to the Oprah blurb, and became a lesbian. By her mid-20s she was a cross-dresser. Then she had her breasts cut off, began taking testosterone, started going by the name Thomas, and settled down with ("married") Nancy.
Thomas kept her female reproductive organs because she wanted to have a baby. Nonetheless, she says her male identity is intact. Quoting Thomas from the Oprah site, "I have a very stable male gender identity. I see pregnancy as a process, and it doesn't define who I am. It's not a male or female desire to want to have a child...it's a human desire. I'm a person, and I have the right to have my own biological child."
Well, no, having biological children is not a "right," but that's another topic.
And wrong, pregnancy is solely a female attribute. As much as Thomas, MSM, and liberals love to try to mix up genders, thereby confusing unstable masses with minds full of mush, the fact is Tracy/Thomas is a woman who wants to be a man who wants to enjoy the perks of womanhood.
Click here to see the Oprah/People magazine preview. Click on video graphic below to watch Thomas' ultrasound, admittedly touching. She is a pregnant mother after all:
Those worried about the baby's physical health should know Thomas stopped taking testosterone 2 years ago. Her female hormone levels are now normal, according to her doctor.
Also watch this OR Fox newscast (subtitled in Spanish, all I could find):
I don't fault this woman for wanting to have a baby. Most women have a maternal longing, as it should be. And by all appearances it looks like this baby girl will be raised in a loving home.
But Tracy sadly displays aberrant gender behaviors. She and the GLBT crowd try to make their abnormal sexual behaviors appear normal by actions such as this.
[HT: reader JLM]
This woman is not a man - genetically and physically she is a woman. Even if she were to have her genitals modified to operate like a male, she cannot escape the fact that genetically, she is a female.
The news organizations really dropped the ball here by calling her a pregnant man...
Posted by: Ruben
at April 3, 2008 8:28 AM
Ruben - Not really. She's legally considered a man. I read another article on this story, and apparently after the sex reassignment surgery, a legal designation of the person's new sex takes place. So...they didn't really drop the ball.
Oh no! Abnormality!Posted by: prettyinpink at April 3, 2008 9:03 AM
Hieronymous: He didn't get sex reassignment surgery. All he did was take hormones and get a breast reduction.Posted by: Carrie at April 3, 2008 9:15 AM
Posted by: Mary
at April 3, 2008 9:16 AM
This is a genetic woman who has had hormonal treatment and some surgery to turn her into what is now a legal man. Genetically "he" is a woman doing what women have done since the dawn of creation and legally "she" is a man going where no man has ever gone before.
I am confused...how many men actually WANT to experience pregnancy? I mean the want to have a baby is YES, a human desire, but I don't know many men who would actually be willing to be pregnant. I know plenty of women who miss being pregnant.
If I'm so confused, it must be quite a mess for this person.Posted by: Elizabeth at April 3, 2008 9:26 AM
Posted by: Mary
at April 3, 2008 9:26 AM
I have seen true transgender people, and I believe this condition is very real, and those women who truly viewed themselves as men, but were trying to live as women, were very traumatized by giving birth. Growing breasts at puberty was also very traumatizing to them. They couldn't get rid of their breasts and uteri fast enough.
That's what strikes me as odd here. Why would anyone who truly considers him/herself a man want to keep female reproductive organs and have a baby? Why no sex reassignment surgery? I have to wonder if this person is truly transgender or has some serious identity confusion.
It's nice to know we're on the right side in the clash of civilizations.Posted by: John Jansen at April 3, 2008 9:29 AM
Or is extremely desperate for praise and attention since both of her/his parents were missing from her/his life.Posted by: Elizabeth at April 3, 2008 9:30 AM
I think this is something far more serious than being desperate for praise and attention, like a mental disorder. I don't believe this person is truly transgender but has some serious identity confusion. My opinion only. A truly transgender woman/man won't want breasts and a uterus any more than you and I want to grow a male appendage.
Also, if absent parents caused this there would have been lots more pregnant men by now :)
Don't people who want the transgender surgery usually go through a long period of therapy to determine whether they're appropriate candidates? I think I read that somewhere.
John Jansen said
It's nice to know we're on the right side in the clash of civilizations.
John - is that the inside or the outside? ;-)Posted by: Chris Arsenault at April 3, 2008 9:52 AM
Mary: I agree with your 9:26 comment. If he was truly transgendered, then he wouldn't have kept his uterus. He wants to live as a man, yet he also wants to give birth. If he wanted the full surgery after giving birth, I don't think he'd be approved.Posted by: Carrie at April 3, 2008 10:02 AM
That's what I understand to be the case. I also heard that few are found to be truly transgender and many people who believe they are transgender are diagnosed with other disorders.
I suppose a few could slip through, just like with anything. Maybe this person found a less than ethical and/or sympathetic doctor to provide hormone treatments and remove her breasts. The article says nothing about counselling prior to all this being done or if she was ever diagnosed as trangender.
Its my opinion, for what its worth, that this is not a true transgender person. I am suspcious of a familial mental disorder being that her mother committed suicide.
I am a man and trust me I have no desire to have my own child growing in my lower stomach. I will leave that to my future wife.
This woman is so confused and has no idea of what she wants. She is confused most likely because of her rough childhood.Posted by: Daniel at April 3, 2008 10:13 AM
Thomas Beatie is legally a man and legally married to HIS wife. Enough with the scare quotes already. Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it's not real. Anyone who continues to refer to him as "her" comes off as ignorant, rude, and uninformed.
Secondly, there seems to be some misunderstanding about cost and physical toll of complete gender reassignment surgery. Removal of the uterus (as women with hysterectomies often know) can have a negative impact on sexual pleasure. Creating a penis is a time consuming process involving multiple surgeries and sometimes leads to a lessening of sexual pleasure. Many (VERY REAL) transgender individuals choose to not undergo some surgeries for these and other reasons. And frankly, it's not really any of anyone's business why or why not one makes the choices they do about surgery.
I'm surprised you all aren't more excited, what with the babymaking and all...Posted by: ER at April 3, 2008 10:14 AM
Thomas Beatie is legally a man and legally married to HIS wife. Enough with the scare quotes already. Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it's not real. Anyone who continues to refer to him as "her" comes off as ignorant, rude, and uninformed.
Another logic grenade from the left...Posted by: Hooves-in-Maw at April 3, 2008 10:29 AM
ER: If he didn't want people to know his business, then he could have hung-up when Oprah called.Posted by: Carrie at April 3, 2008 10:32 AM
I am well aware of the cost and physical toll. I'm also aware that people who want this done badly enough will scrape together every last penny they have to get it done.
I'm only telling what I have heard from TG people. Having characteristics of the "wrong" sex, i.e. breasts, ovaries, penis, testicles, is traumatic and a "defect" that they want removed.
Some may have to wait a long time for surgery, some may never have it.
The fact Thomas kept his/her ovaries is indeed curious, since this is one day surgery and not particularly traumatic. He did have his breasts cut off which couldn't have been too cheap. Neither is hormone treatment.
Also, I'm only stating that I've heard TG women/men describe pregnancy and childbirth as very traumatic to them emotionally. They had absolutely no "feminine" feelings concerning pregnancy or desire to give birth. Daniel gives us a man's perspective on this in his 10:13am post.
"Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it's not real.."
God made man a man and woman a woman...each has his/her own purpose in life...with all this talk/ procedure of bypassing the very laws of nature and creating confusion and abnormalities in peoples' lives.... WE are the ones who don't understand what's really happening???
Gimme a break!!!Posted by: RSD at April 3, 2008 10:41 AM
brace yourself - I agree - this person is terribly messed up mentally and emotionally - I cant even imagine what kind of life a child would have with a parent with this mentality - I suspect they are delighted to be the center of attention though ... I cant help but suspect thats the root cause of a lot of gender 'switching' - the need to be noticed. Im not talking about homosexuality - but the need to try to 'become someone else'Posted by: TexasRed at April 3, 2008 10:54 AM
Hell must be freezing over...I agree. :)
No surprise that Oprah is featuring this story .... she has really lost her mind.
Take a look at her blasphemy on this youtube video, it is very frightening but sadly not surprising anymore:
In it you will hear these gems, along with many others:
"my mind is part of God's, I am very holy"
"my holiness is my salvation"
"my salvation comes from me"
"heaven is not a location, but refers to the inner realm of consiousness"
"the man on the cross is an archetypal image. He is every man and every woman"
"do not make the pathetic error of clinging to the old rugged cross"
"one of the mistakes that human beings make is believing that there is only one way ... there are many paths to what YOU call God ... there couldn't possibly be just one way".Posted by: Kristi at April 3, 2008 11:21 AM
Im not talking about homosexuality - but the need to try to 'become someone else'
TR -- I often hear acquaintances who claim to be transgendered saying things that make me think that their issue is with gender roles rather than their specific gender. Like, they do not have maternal instincts, they do not like [insert activity women are supposed to like], they are better friends with men, etc -- so they are not a woman. It's hard for me to accept such statements sometimes, because I'm of the view that there is no inherently "female" way to behave or feel -- so saying that you're not a woman because you don't feel or like "womanly" things goes against everything I believe. Sometimes I think that if society were more forgiving of people of both genders who do not fit into expected gender roles, there would be fewer people who feel as though they are transgendered. As I'm of the view that gender roles are largely a social construct, I find it almost as offensive that one's gender is determined by one's role as I do that one's role is determined by one's gender. I've never thought I should have been born a man, but for a long time I felt like I was not a woman. It took me a long time to acknowledge that I am a woman, that I am fully female regardless of what I think or feel or enjoy or want. That no one gets to tell me what a woman is, and then tell me I don't fit the definition -- which would imply that I should change who I am in some way, be it my gender or the role I fill.
That said, I think that some people do legitimately feel as though they are not the gender they were born, regardless of social roles or gender expectations. That would be a horrible way to go through life, and I think people who feel alien in their own bodies should absolutely have the right to find some way to be comfortable, even if it involves changing their body and their gender. And it's not my job to weed out who I think is legitimately transgendered and who I think is just buying into traditional concepts of gender roles and defining themselves based on those roles just as much as people who buy wholeheartedly into them. So I accept people at face value and call them by the gender they wish to identify with, and I leave the wondering up to them since it's not like it's my life.
There was an interesting article in the NY Times last week (or maybe two weeks ago now, I'll try to find it) dealing with transgendered women -- by this I mean, women who have become men or who are in the process of transitioning; I'm unsure of whether the proper term is transgendered men or transgendered women -- who attend women's-only colleges. I had conflicted reactions reading it, because my initial response was, "If you want to be a man, then why would you want to go to a women's college?" As I thought further about it, I was able to acknowledge that even if someone legally becomes a man at age 20, he's spent the first 20 years of his life as a woman, and as such has something to gain from and something to give to a women's educational institution. Women's colleges are intended to be inclusive of all perspectives experienced by women -- and I suppose that includes the perspectives of women who no longer want to be women, right? Then I found myself wondering: how would I feel about men who are transitioning to become women attending women's colleges? They have no history of seeing the world as a woman, but they do have a history of seeing the world as something other than a man (in that they have never felt like a man), and they will spend the rest of their lives seeing the world as women. It does make things tricky, and I have no answers, but it's interesting to think about.
I really hate not being able to preview comments. I'm at work so I'm sure everything is all scatter-brained and typo'd to heck. Bah, I say!Posted by: Alexandra at April 3, 2008 11:22 AM
I really don't see any difference between this woman and the guy who thinks he's a tiger trapped in a human body. I've seen him on TV several times...he's spent a fortune mutilating his body with surgery and tattoos. And I’m sorry, but LOTS of people had screwed up childhoods that don’t result in self-mutilation. And even more folks who do engage in self-mutilation, whether it manifests itself in extreme “body art” or “gender confusion” do so without plastering themselves all over TV. If you put fringe behavior on display, you are going to get gawked at and criticized…I don’t care WHAT culture you are in.
The problem here is we have a very sick individual who wants her 15 minutes of fame and is willing to prostitute her situation to the political agenda that will put her on display. They get their “victim” to parade around, and she gets her attention quota filled.
Sadly, there is going to be a child caught up in this mess. Just like Michael Jackson’s kids. So the tragic childhoods continue….
That's the article I mentioned. Long, but interesting.Posted by: Alexandra at April 3, 2008 11:45 AM
Alexandra - when I was about 5 my papa took a long look at me - strawberry blonde - Shirley Temple curls - and I guess he realized I was going to be all he had to work with ... he took me to the rifle range and taught me how to shoot a .22 rifle. I learned to fish - how to bait my own hook and take a perch or catfish off my hook without getting jabbed ... I learned how to tell a venemous snake from a nonpoisonous one, the safe way to pick up a snake or a turtle or a crawfish - I learned how to field dress and butcher a deer or a squirell. When I was 14 I could outshoot any boy my age and one whole heck of a lot of men. And I loved it. When mama tried to teach me the 'right' way to 'hold a coffee' in my home, the right and wrong time to wear dress gloves and a hat, or when I was 'supposed' to stop wearing white shoes, it just didnt take. Im not that interested in fashion. I wear jeans 80% of the time. My home is functional and comfortable. It isnt 'stylish'. But I never had any sense that I 'wasnt' female or wasnt a woman. I just recognized that I was different and not 'typical'. I feel deep sympathy for people who honestly feel they've been born in the 'wrong' body. But I think a lot of transgendering is simply a matter of not liking who you 'are' regardless of gender. And I think a lot of it is also a desire to have someone pay attention to them.Posted by: TexasRed at April 3, 2008 11:53 AM
A child who is wanted this badly will never have a tragic childhood. She will be loved by her parents who also love each other. I may be idealistic and- gasp- liberal, but I stand by what I'm saying. Isn't that what this blog is about, anyway? Celebrating people who value human life and get pregnant and have babies and love them? Who cares what their biological mother looks like? Perhaps this baby will grow up to be, oh I don't know, tolerant?!Posted by: am at April 3, 2008 11:54 AM
Never say never...
At the very least, I would think it could be a tad confusing for a child. Well, it confuses me. I hope that this child is loved and cared for.
Being a planned and wanted baby is no guarantee of anything. You can never predict how an unborn baby's life will turn out, even those born into the most "ideal" of circumstances. Life circumstances can change very radically.Posted by: Mary at April 3, 2008 12:26 PM
Id say the emotional and psychological issues of a parent are going to have an impact on a child - and from the sound of it, these parents have one whole big bucket load of emotional and psychological issues.Posted by: TexasRed at April 3, 2008 12:53 PM
It would be a lot easier for me to take this person seriously as transgendered if he wasn't so blatently allowing himself to be plastered all over the media like "LOOK AT ME!!!! ARE YOU LOOKING?!?!?!?!"
I just have a hard time reconciling it when people ask why can't the government just stay out of personal lives...while they're displaying their personal lives for all to see.
I'm not just saying that in regards to people who don't fit in to societal norms, but ANYONE... all these people who go on talk shows and blab about stuff that really shouldn't be anyone elses business. Its their choice, I know, I know. But what about their families? I always imagine when I'm home sick from work and catch one of those Maury shows where they're giving a girl her 3984534th paternity test - is she thinking about what it will be like after the filming when people recognize her. Imagine the water cooler chats at the place where that girls mom works? *shudder*
In general, I'm just SOOOOO sick of the celebrity-obsessed, fame-obsessed culture - to the point where being famous for something bad is still SUPERCOOL as long as you're famous.
When we give people that power, then they think they are some all-knowing expert on everything, and all of us lowly non-famous people should just take every word out of their mouths as fact because they're famous.
I realize I'm ranting, but I got all pissed off yesterday because I happened to catch Jenny McCarthy trying to play doctor and autism expert on CNN last night, claiming that her son "recovered" from autism because she fed him a gluten free diet and anti-fungal medications. *eyeroll*
Also, FTR, the camp I used to work at in Maine had a Transgendered Persons conference every summer. I do believe its completely legit, but part of being truly transgendered means you can't relate yourself to the body of the sex you were born with. So the whole "im a man but i still want to be pregnant" thing sets off alarms for me as to how genuine this is. Both sexes want babies of course, but no man I know (transgenered or born male) would have any innate desire to actually be pregnant.Posted by: Amanda at April 3, 2008 12:53 PM
I agree 100% with everything you just said :o)Posted by: midnite678 at April 3, 2008 12:56 PM
I wonder who will play him in the movie. 'Cause we all know that he has already signed a book/movie deal. *slaps own hand* Oops, I really should mind my own business. Bad Carrie!Posted by: Carrie at April 3, 2008 1:08 PM
For those who are arguing that Tracey/Thomas is legally a man, and that she and Nancy are legally married, "Sayin' so don't make it so." Just because something's legal doesn't make it right, or even true. Slavery used to be legal, too. Abortion is legal now.
No law in the universe can change Tracey into a man. Those tears she was crying were a normal, typical female response to learning that one's child is healthy.
My question is (forgive my skimming over others' comments if the answer is included in them), who impregnanted Tracey? It couldn't have been his/her 'wife' ...
mhc: My question is who impregnanted Tracey? It couldn't have been his/her 'wife.'
:: laughing :: Yeah, the guy's wife got him pregnant!
Or was it the milklady?Posted by: Doug at April 3, 2008 1:44 PM
While I agree with almost all of your post I must disagree with you on Jenny McCarthy. I think there can be a great deal of validity to what she says and we can't discount the research and observations of parents. We also can't blindly follow the "experts". I determined my daughter's mental disorder, and my late father's as well, by my own research. None of the "experts" ever had any answers. Or they had the wrong ones. I have also advised other parents of the possibility of the same disorder in their own children when they had the same perplexing symptoms. Hopefully they can do for their child what I could never do for mine. I always encourage people to do their own research and know more about a disorder than the "experts", which I have found is not a big challenge.
People can think of me what they want, I know I found the answer. I personally believe Jenny McCarthy did as well where her son is concerned.
Really!! Don't you know enough to respect people's privacy??Posted by: Mary at April 3, 2008 1:51 PM
I don't think they're doing it for the "fame." I think a big part of it is to raise awareness to transgender culture and the way they have been mistreated by people because of it. Of course, I could be wrong... but I think it's important not to just brush them off on first glance.
Also, the reason he didn't have the total surgery was because the couple knew the other partner had infertility issues. Because THEY wanted to have a baby, Beatie opted to go back to her female origin so that they could have a child. I'm sure he wouldn't have done it if his partner could have produced the child.
I mean, if you were infertile and your partner had the opportunity to have a baby, wouldn't you make sacrifices to do so? Since children are such a joy and all?Posted by: Edyt at April 3, 2008 1:54 PM
A good point. Perhaps he/she will eventually have gender reassignment surgery or will take enough hormones to suppress the ovaries, should he/she want to use them again.
I question the safety of such large amounts of testosterone but I have no first hand knowledge of what effects it could have on fetal development.
I wonder if Thomas went through any of counselling and assessment transgender people are usually required to go through.
"People can think of me what they want, I know I found the answer. I personally believe Jenny McCarthy did as well where her son is concerned."
Of course - but you're not out there on Larry King trying to come off like you're an expert and assuming that what worked for your kid will work for EVERYONE. You're saying this worked for you, and you'd suggest it to people who sought your advice. I think thats very different from using your fame as a platform to proclaim yourself a spokesperson of some kind when you have no medical or educational credentials to speak of.
The post later today about Ted Turner is a perfect example. He's a frikking TV exec, and yet he has somehow promoted himself to Global Population Expert. Annnnndddd for some reason that baffles me, people take it seriously?!Posted by: Amanda at April 3, 2008 2:10 PM
I didn't see Jenny on Larry King so I can't comment. I have read some of her articles and she comes across to me as someone who is sharing her experience in the hope of helping others. Were I the parent of an autistic child, I would certainly look into this and would greatly appreciate Jenny, as well as any other parent, sharing their experience and research with me.Posted by: Mary at April 3, 2008 2:17 PM
As for Ted Turner. We give these celebrity twits, many of whom that never finished high school, entirely too much credit. I always loved parenting advise from celebrities with nannies, household staffs, and personal assistants, as well as fitness advise from celebrities with personal trainers, private chefs, and people who care for their homes and kids while they're busy getting in shape.
I remember years ago when Jessica Lange and Sissy Spacek testified before congress on the situation of the American farmer. Their qualifications? They played farm wives in a movie. Give me a break.Posted by: Mary at April 3, 2008 2:23 PM
Amanda, 12:53 and 2:10 p.m.
I totally agree!Posted by: Elizabeth at April 3, 2008 2:58 PM
I remember years ago when Jessica Lange and Sissy Spacek testified before congress on the situation of the American farmer. Their qualifications? They played farm wives in a movie. Give me a break.
Lol, Mary, you mean they have no idea about farming? I AM SHOCKED! lol.Posted by: Elizabeth at April 3, 2008 2:59 PM
Hi Elizabeth! Hi Mary!
I love the word twit!! I will use it in a sentence today! :)
I wouldnt keep 'him' (?) from having the baby - I just think 'he' has a whole lot of psychological and emotional baggage and needs a good therapist more than he needs an infant.Posted by: TexasRed at April 3, 2008 3:11 PM
"I remember years ago when Jessica Lange and Sissy Spacek testified before congress on the situation of the American farmer. Their qualifications? They played farm wives in a movie. Give me a break. "
All those letters I've been writing to my state reps and congressmen about how out-of-hand graduate school tuition is and that there isn't adequate financial aid for grad school are just being ignored because I'm ACTUALLY trying to go to grad school in REAL LIFE. All I need to do is play a college grad in a movie, and they'll all take me seriously. Good to know. =)Posted by: Amanda at April 3, 2008 3:23 PM
interesting, I just saw that tomorrow Oprah's show will be about the horrors of puppy mills.
Wondering ... what do you suppose will be required for Oprah to feature the horrors of BABY mills???
Just a thought.Posted by: Kristi at April 3, 2008 3:40 PM
That will be the day, won't it Kristi?
I used to watch her everyday. Now I can hardly stomach her self worship.Posted by: Carla at April 3, 2008 3:45 PM
your last 2 posts are bang on!
I personally think this whole situation is very sad and I feel dreadfully sorry for the child about to be born into such a family....
I think if we saw blood oozing out of the front doors of the abortion clinics MAYBE Oprah would pay attention, MAYBE.....
So... how does the whole "transgender" thing square with the idea that God made homosexuals as they are because He supports homosexuality? If God wanted transgenders to be a certain way physically, why do they need to be sliced up on the operating table? Or is this just another phony liberal argument?Posted by: John Lewandowski at April 3, 2008 4:26 PM
Homosexuals and transgendered people are NOT the same thing.
Some transgendered people identify as gay, but most consider themselves to be heterosexual.
And as for why God creates people a certain way, wasn't it you who was preaching to me in the thread about IVF that we shouldn't try to understand why God creates things the way he does, and isntead just accept that he has a plan?Posted by: Amanda at April 3, 2008 4:37 PM
We should keep in mind that at one time mental illness was viewed as demonic possession. We have learned instead that it may have more to do with chemical imbalance and "faulty wiring" for lack of a better word.
Physical and mental anomolies were once thought to be divine retribution or caused by something the pregnant woman did. We now have a better understanding of genetic disease and developmental disorders in and out of the womb.
Disease, especially plagues, was viewed as divine retribution, until we discovered germs.
Its possible where transgender and homosexuality are concerned there are also factors at work that we have yet to comprehend. I'm personally of the belief that no one chooses either homosexuality, heterosexuality, or to be transgender. I'm not getting into any debates, I'm just stating an opinion.Posted by: Mary at April 3, 2008 5:15 PM
I saw an ad for the puppy mill story on Oprah. Isn't it time to start flooding Oprah's mail box with abortion horror stories? There has to be a way to get her to take notice.Posted by: Janet at April 3, 2008 5:25 PM
Mary, you are seriously amazing.
*oodles of applause*Posted by: Rae at April 3, 2008 5:59 PM
Thank you so much. How have you been? I hope all is still going well.Posted by: Mary at April 3, 2008 6:05 PM
@Mary: Oh things are fine. I have a lot of exams right now and I'm really tired (have been staying up too late arguing online...I hate going to bed when somebody is wrong on the internet! :-p)
Other than that, things have been going well. I know I need to get motivated one of these days to clean my apartment, it's getting quite messy.
How have you been lately?Posted by: Rae at April 3, 2008 6:26 PM
What a cute cartoon. That often looks like me late at nite.
Don't worry about the apt. No matter how long it takes me to get around to cleaning my house, it remains good and dirty until I do.
I'm recovering from some upper respiratory bug and have been off work a few days so I've accomplished little. Just too tired. People at work are all being hit with this bug as well. Everything else is going well.
Best of luck on your exams.
I'm sorry, but this story is creepy on so many levels. I'm sure we'll be seeing more "copy cats". I can't imagine that the changing hormone levels are not going to cause problems for her down the line.... Will her body think it needs to lactate? I feel very sorry for these people.Posted by: Janet at April 3, 2008 7:00 PM
@Mary: Oooh! Upper respiratory bugs are miserable! I've been lucky, I haven't gotten sick yet this winter, though I imagine it's only due time till it happens...Posted by: Rae at April 3, 2008 7:25 PM
This story was so misleading from the beginning. When I first saw the photo, my first thought was, "Good Lord, what has "science" done now?!?
What was Oprah thinking? Is it that important that we accept these freak shows as something normal in society? I mean, come on, there's alot of impressionable young kids home watching this garbage while on spring break.
Janet, I agree with you that this story is creepy on so many levels!
And honestly, the baby may be born to two parents that will love her dearly. That is great! But no matter how much our parents love us, there are so many other factors in life that can affect our self-esteem in negative ways. Why didn't these parents think of this before he-she decided to get pregnant? I'm getting so tired of self-centered people only caring about what makes THEM happy.
Sad...truly sad.Posted by: JLM at April 3, 2008 7:49 PM
I didn't know what to think about this situation. The number one thing is that it appears the child will be physically healthy and raised in a loving home, having access to positive male and female role models as well as loving adult siblings. But now that I have read through the best reasons people could come up with for why this is wrong I have decided that there really is no problem. Thomas wanted a biological child of his own and he was willing to do whatever it took. I'm fairly certain that other fertility treatments are not "normal" so how can we pass judgment on Thomas and his wife?
I do like that the author's comments included the notion that you can't simultaneously enjoy "male" and "female" benefits. Why? Is there some punishment for being born a certain sex? It seems that science is forcing us to redefine gender roles despite what people are and aren't ready for.Posted by: Anonymous at April 3, 2008 8:01 PM
I think it's sad that people think this is a freak show. :(
"freak show"? thats completely horribly judgemental of you...
and sad? who is it sad for? you? because regardless of what you or I may think of them, they're clearly not sad.Posted by: Amanda at April 3, 2008 8:30 PM
having access to positive male and female role models
Ummm...who's the male? The female that hated being female so much that she cut off her breasts and pumped herself full of male steroids?
Yep, some positive male role-model!Posted by: Jacqueline at April 3, 2008 9:22 PM
Well Jacqueline if you and others think that someone who is biologically female can't adapt to portray positive American male gender roles then it doesn't matter what neutral and positive things people have to say about the situation. In the end it is your own problem and you are always going to have it until you learn to deal with it.Posted by: Jessika at April 3, 2008 9:46 PM
Wow! And Val thought she went thru life confused!Posted by: mk at April 4, 2008 5:48 AM
Well Jacqueline if you and others think that someone who is biologically female can't adapt to portray positive American male gender roles then it doesn't matter what neutral and positive things people have to say about the situation. In the end it is your own problem and you are always going to have it until you learn to deal with it.
Deal with what? She's not a man!
Another thing, I could pretend to be a man- that doesn't make me a man. I could even mutilate myself to make me look more like a man- I'm still not a man.Posted by: Jacqueline at April 4, 2008 9:54 AM
I heard Tracy "Thomas" Beatie on the radio last night and she sounds like a woman. Also,the image of a woman who has mutilated herself is very disturbing.
I think this couple is seriously disturbed and to pass them off as normal is simply a sign of how decayed our society has become.
Jessika: your comment shows how off-base people really are today. Apparently everything is normal because it's all relative. You take situations like this and twist them so that it makes normal people who are the liars and who have the problem.
We have already seen this done with homosexuality where people's natural aversion to this lifestyle is deemed a phobia!
The bottom line Jessika is that a biological woman cannot "portray" a man because she genetically is a woman. Her brain doesn't think like a man's, she doesn't have the emotional character of a man and she doesn't have the real body parts of a man.
This poor woman requires years of therapy.
she wants to be like a male, okay let her live that way but it's crazy to say she's the "first pregnant man"Posted by: Down with PD Sk8tr at April 4, 2008 11:11 AM
Daniel gives us a man's perspective on this in his 10:13am post.
That's great, but Daniel apparently thinks that babies grow in the "lower stomach." You sure you want to take his opinion on this one?
...to pass them off as normal is simply a sign of how decayed our society has become.
What's "normal" anymore? I don't think anyone thinks they're "normal." If Thomas and Nancy were "normal," they wouldn't be on Oprah. IF (and that's a big IF) you watched the show or read the articles, you'd know that they want to tell their story so that the media doesn't get hold of it and screw it up as MSM tends to do. They know what they're doing has not happened before and that's why they're telling their story. Kudos to them for knowing what they want and following through.
"I wonder who will play him in the movie. 'Cause we all know that he has already signed a book/movie deal. *slaps own hand* Oops, I really should mind my own business. Bad Carrie!"
I don't know.... looks kinda like a pregnant George Michael to me....Posted by: Anonymous at April 4, 2008 3:22 PM
Like I said, a man's perspective. :)Posted by: Mary at April 4, 2008 3:23 PM
They know what they're doing has not happened before and that's why they're telling their story.
Yeah, there's never been a baby in a woman's body before.
That's totally a new concept.Posted by: Elizabeth at April 4, 2008 4:04 PM
Anon: Lol! Thanks for the laugh.:)Posted by: Carrie at April 4, 2008 4:43 PM
...And so it becomes a homosexuality and gender equality issue...or maybe that's all it ever was *shruggs*.
It actually makes me giggle thinking that Thomas and his wife have angered so many people because they have the courage to just live their life publicly and no one can stop them. All people can do is sit back and pass judgment and make up excuses for why they feel so uncomfortable.
Given the amount of hate mail and threats Thomas and his family are bound to receive, I think it would be fitting if everyone who truly cared about this child's well being would pledge one penny to go to their daughter's safety and college education for every hate letter they receive.Posted by: Jessika at April 4, 2008 7:33 PM
WHY is it our job to ensure the safety of that child? It's the parents job, if they wanted to ensure the child's safety, they didn't have to go on OPRAH! They know how people are in society, if they don't care, well then that's the risk you take.
You can live your life publicly and do what you want without broadcasting it all over Oprah. Duh.
I don't really feel uncomfortable by any of it..I just feel sad for those people and their child, because they have turned themselves into a spectacle. No one else...them. Don't want people to judge you and make yourself a target of hate mail? Don't put yourself into a position to be judged...like oh I don't know, on Oprah. But if you go on Oprah, EXPECT that people WILL judge you.Posted by: Elizabeth at April 4, 2008 9:54 PM
"freak show"? thats completely horribly judgemental of you...
uh.....yes. Freak show.
Take a look at the black & white picture at the top of the article, with the woman with the chopped off breasts, posing as a pregnant MAN, (hair under armpits & all!), with the caption "Pregnant Oregon Man below it.
Yes, freak show.Posted by: JLM at April 5, 2008 12:03 AM
Jessika and Elizabeth,
According to one account I read this is not the first time that a transgender woman/man has become pregnant. Apparently the people involved in these previous situations valued their privacy and that of their children enough not to go public and the whole situation remained private.
I in no way condone harassing people with hate mail and threats. But you don't put yourself on public display to millions of people and not expect this to involve some serious risk.
I can't agree with the one penny bit Jessika. These people are responsible for the safety of their daughter and providing her with an education.
Elizabeth, great points. If you don't want the world to judge you then don't tell them your business in the first place!Posted by: Mary at April 5, 2008 5:06 AM
The "wife" looks old enough to be his Mom. Their physical resemblance is remarkable, they look like they could be related.
How is it that they are legally married, being physically the same gender? Oregon must have very liberal marriage/gender laws. The hubby is selling a book according to Oprah's blog. What's next?
Oprah, let's see a show about abortion, please.
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Hmm Mary, I see... This has happened several times before and continues to happen but America still isn't ready to see it on national television.
Once upon a time I'm sure 99% of America wasn't ready to see gays on national television, let alone holding hands in public. Looks like that number has dropped to about 97%... time for God to strike America down!
At least people stopped commenting about "how bad they feel for the child".Posted by: Jessika at April 9, 2008 6:42 PM
SHe is not a man---she is a woman who wants to be a man and still wants to be a woman. Can't have your cake and eat it too-----SHe didn't really want to be a man or she would have had her femle organs removed. If you ask me--lesbian!! Makes one wonder about her wife---is she a man or a woman. What a wonderful private decision this couple has made by going on Oprah-$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I fel sorry for the poor child.Posted by: GLoria at April 10, 2008 9:40 PM
Gloria's post should say "I feel so sorry for their daughter so I'm going to tranny bash her father". SO STRANGE HOW THE PEOPLE WHO CALL HIM A PERV ARE OBSESSED WITH WHAT IS BETWEEN HIS LEGS AND NOT IN HIS HEART AND MIND. Really all ya'll is just angry cuz tommy is hot-I said it HOT. Hot when he was a beauty queen, hot as a man, and that confuses you. If you saw him walking down the street and heard his nice baritone when he is on T you would be attracted to him. Little would you know he is trans. It would be so much e-zier if all trans people and homosexuals had purple horns but maybe ya'll will get lucky and Bush will pass a law that let's the government check in your pants.Posted by: Molly at April 21, 2008 7:25 PM
While you have a good point, your grammar/spelling makes you look horribly ignorant. Yes, we know that what's in your heart is important. That is the debate here. Thomas is stating that they felt the need to have a child, the "want" to have a child. For you ladies out there, we know what that is. That's the biological clock going, "DING!" and us being unable to hit the snooze button anymore. Cutting off your breasts and having testosterone treatment may make you look like a man and act like a man, but if you started life as a woman, you will always be a woman in some way. Has anyone else done the math on this, btw? Thomas stated that they had their operations 10 years ago, yet they've only been married to their spouse for 5. How would they know that their future partner couldn't have kids? Unless they were with that person at the time of the change...? Beyond that though, it sounds like Thomas doesn't really know what they want and making sex-change decisions without know what you want is a very dangerous thing. To be completely honest, I think that this is someone looking for their 15 minutes. I think that everyone is going to take rabid/snarling positions on this and turn this ridiculous parade of gender/sexual issues. Already this person has made people start huge debates about what is considered to be a gender. How about this, "Gender is physical, sexuality is mental." Gender-wise, Thomas is a woman. Sexuality-wise, Thomas is a man. That's it.
Just so you know Anon, I've always been taught that sex is a biological identity, while gender and sexuality are social/cultural identities. I've also been taught that these don't always add up the way we think they will; no teaching necessary really though just look around.
Given this, why should someone not want to have kids because they had a sex change? Probably
because they aren't a normal person right? They are some kind of sub-human anomaly? They are so desperate for media attention that they'd get a sex change and become pregnant just for 15 minutes of fame?
We'll never know what would happen if Thomas could somehow produce sperm...
By the way who the hell really cares? We just wouldn't treat anything else like this:
"What?! You are moving to Europe indefinitely and plan on having your kids there? You are going to let them CHOOSE which country they want to have citizenship in?! You are crazy and confused! Why would you want to have your kids there? Oh no, you've got to tell us right now which country they are going to have citizenship in so we know how to treat them."