Lots of whip counts out there. I'm sticking with FireDogLake.com. A couple other sources say Pelosi has her 216, but she wouldn't be talking to Bart Stupak (see below) if that were true. Remember, whichever side gets to 216 wins...
An FDL add-on:
We'll certainly know in the morning, but Nancy Pelosi is fast running out of options without members of the ubiquitous Stupak bloc...
CNN picks up the story from there, reporting tonight...
The divisive issue of abortion is once again causing problems for House Democrats as they plan to move forward with the health care bill.
Anti-abortion Rep. Bart Stupak, D-MI, is asking for a vote on his language restricting taxpayer funding for abortion, and a group of female abortion-rights Democrats came out of an emergency meeting in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office Friday evening visibly angry about the request.
Rep. Diana Degette, D-CO, told reporters a vote on Stupak's measure was a "nonstarter," saying, "somewhere between 40 and 55" abortion-rights Democrats would bolt from the bill.
"We are holding firm this time," she said. "If Mr. Stupak and a few members along with the Republicans decide to use this to take health care down, that loss of health care will be in their hands."
It wasn't clear whether Democratic leaders were seriously considering allowing a vote on Stupak's abortion language, or in what form. But Stupak said he is in talks with Pelosi....
What is Stupak's offer? From The Daily Caller, tonight...
Stupak is reportedly trying to change the [Senate healthcare bill's] abortion language through a procedure called a "concurrent resolution," but a parliamentarian expert told The Daily Caller that such a move would face huge hurdles.
The House would likely have to pass the Senate bill, and then hold it back from going to the president for his signature while they voted on the concurrent resolution. That resolution would then have to go through the Senate....
Stupak just explained to Greta VanSusteren, from my transcribed shorthand: "I'm not asking for changes in the healthcare bill.... I introduced a separate piece of legislation...The resolution would say there's a mistake and has to be be fixed president signs it.... Both the House and Senate would have to vote on it, yes... I'm offering a way for them to solve the problem. I'm not saying they're going to accept it, but I'm offering it.
The Hill picks up the story from there...
Pelosi... on Friday evening met with a visibly angry Pro-Choice Caucus amid rumors from Democratic aides that the Speaker was working on a last-minute deal with... Stupak... to give his abortion language a separate vote....
[A] senior Democratic aide directly involved in the abortion debate said Pelosi appeared to have agreed to give Stupak a vote on an "enrollment resolution" offered by Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-OH), a key Stupak ally.
Kaptur's resolution contains the same abortion language that Stupak successfully attached at the 11th hour to the House healthcare bill in November. Were the resolution to pass the House, it would instruct the Senate clerk to change the healthcare bill to reflect Stupak's more restrictive language to prohibit federal dollars from going toward abortion coverage....
Pelosi spoke on the floor with Stupak for 10 minutes immediately before a group of pro-abortion rights Democrats angrily surrounded Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-SC), and then headed into the Speaker's office just off the House floor.
Stupak, meanwhile, has scheduled a press conference at 11 a.m. Saturday. "Hopefully, tomorrow, I'll have it for you and can give it to you," he said of the proposal.
Stupak has maintained that he has enough votes to kill the healthcare bill, and has threatened to do so unless his demands that his language be included in the eventual healthcare law are met.
Stupak's threats were real enough in November to force Pelosi to add his language to the House bill at the last minute. That language, which Stupak has said is the only language that upholds the Hyde Amendment, won the votes of 68 Democrats as an amendment to the House bill.
The vote prompted an angry backlash from members of the Pro-Choice Caucus, who vowed to kill any future healthcare bill containing the Stupak language, which they say goes beyond current law and places more restrictions on abortion than already exist.
Leaders of the Pro-Choice Caucus, some 30 minutes after storming into Pelosi's office, renewed that threat.
"This concurrent resolution which Congressman Stupak and several others have filed, from the position of the people who signed my letter back in November, is a non-starter," said Rep. Diana DeGette (D-CO), a Pro-Choice Caucus co-chairwoman. "We compromised to the concept 'no federal funding for abortion,' which is current law - we don't like that. And so if Mr. Stupak and a few members, along with the Republicans, decide to use this to take healthcare down, then that loss on healthcare coverage is going to be on their hands."
DeGette said a move allowing the enrollment resolution to go forward would put "somewhere between 40 and 55" pro-abortion rights votes at stake.
That math was also leading to counter-rumors, including from aides of anti-abortion rights Democrats, that Pelosi could not realistically be putting even a dozen votes from the left at stake for the sake of Stupak and his allies.
One of those aides also speculated that even if they won a vote on the enrollment resolution, Stupak, Kaptur and the remaining holdouts would still have a difficult time voting for the reconciliation bill unless there was some guarantee that the Senate could pass it as well.
To that end, one version of the resolution apparently being discussed between Pelosi and Stupak would say that the Senate bill won't be considered as having passed in the House until the Senate sends a message to the House stating that it has also passed the Stupak resolution, according to a knowledgeable Democratic aide.
But that would seem to be a very heavy lift for the Senate - and possibly even the House - even under the best of circumstances.
In December, Sens. Ben Nelson (D-NE) and Orrin Hatch (R-UT) offered an amendment to the Senate healthcare bill based on Stupak's language, but 54 senators, including 2 Republicans - ME Sens. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe - voted against it....
More on the pro-abort flummox, from The Daily Caller...
Degette emerged clearly agitated from a meeting with Pelosi and other pro-choice members in a room just off the House floor.
She said the Stupak proposal was a "non-starter."
"Nobody likes this," she said, claiming that more than 40 pro-choice Democrats would oppose the move.
"If Mr. Stupak and a few members... decide to use this to take health care down, then that loss of health care coverage will be on them," she said.
Asked if she was willing to vote against the health care bill if Stupak got his way, she said "we are not going to vote for a bill that restricts the woman's right to choose beyond current law."
"So you're willing to take down the health care bill?" the Daily Caller asked.
"That's it! That's all I'm saying!" she said.
She then added: "I'm not taking any bill down."
So, where are the baby killing liars who post that there isn't any abortion funding in ObamaCare?Posted by: Gerry at March 19, 2010 10:58 PM
Posted by: Gerry at March 19, 2010 10:58 PM
Posted by: Kristen
at March 19, 2010 11:02 PM
That was exactly my question when I was reading this.
"We are holding firm this time," she said. "If Mr. Stupak and a few members along with the Republicans decide to use this to take health care down, that loss of health care will be in their hands."-Rep. Degette
All I have to say is better to have the loss of health care on your hands, than the blood of millions of innocent babies on your hands. The holocaust has to end.Posted by: kml at March 19, 2010 11:05 PM
Taking down a horrendous health care bill over what they call the non-issue of abortion.
Hmmm. Sounds like a way to make a hero of yourself, Congressman Stupak.
Who'll be making history here?Posted by: Leticia Velasquez at March 19, 2010 11:56 PM
Liars, Liars, pants on fire. They all said no abortion federal funding was in this bill.
More innocent babies will die.
Satan is "the father of lies" who comes to "Kill, Steal and Destroy" Guess who these Demoncrats spiritual father is?
Dear LordPosted by: Prolifer L at March 20, 2010 12:09 AM
Die HCR! DIE!Posted by: Ed at March 20, 2010 12:24 AM
If there is no abortion funding in the current bill, what is the pro-death mob so upset about?Posted by: Ed at March 20, 2010 12:26 AM
I recieved this e-mail from my Friend Joseph Herrin in which he nails it:
O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray, and confuse the direction of your paths.
We are living in the last days of America as a free nation. Every liberty guaranteed by the United States Constitution is under attack. The protections of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness have already been greatly diminished. America is quickly degenerating into a nation where her people have traded freedom for the promise of security and provision. In this bargain her citizens will truly lose their precious freedom, but they will fail to attain the promise of security and provision.
As a man who understands that I was created for Yahweh’s pleasure, and as a Christian who has been purchased by the blood of Christ and made a citizen of a heavenly kingdom, I view myself as an alien and a stranger in the land. Christianity has flourished in some of the most repressive political environments on earth. Indeed, suffering and persecution are the great purifiers of the faith of the saints. I am therefore not alarmed at what I see coming to America, but I would have the people of God within her borders to walk with understanding, anticipating those things to come. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Neither am I seeking to encourage anyone to work by human means to overcome the evil that is advancing on every front in this nation. Lies, deceit, and hypocrisy are the order of the day throughout society. Deception is very evident in the mainstream media, which is highly controlled, leading the people as sheep to the slaughter. There is no honesty in politics. The Luciferian motives of those in power are always hidden behind a mask of altruism as they pretend to be seeking the welfare of the poor, neglected and downtrodden.
II Corinthians 11:14-15
Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds.
The wise will not be fooled by appearances. They will look behind the thin veneer of benevolent posturing and see the malevolent intent of those who are quickly driving the nation into a totalitarian state where freedom is absent and prosperity is no more to be found.
Yet, the majority of Christians are not wise. The Internet is filled with blogs and e-mails urging believers to petition congress, to join a Tea Party, or to pursue some other carnal course to stave off the demise of America as a free nation. They have not discerned that the writing is already on the wall. The people of America, including the Christians in her borders, have been weighed in the balance and found wanting.
One might say, “the writing is on the Wall Street.” America’s dollar will not last much longer. The United Nations is now suggesting that a new world currency should be sought to replace the dollar. America’s money has been ruined by profligate spending, and cannot be sustained much longer by the greatest debtor nation on earth whose economy is in freefall. America’s debt burden is accelerating while her economic prosperity is declining. It is a recipe for disaster, and is now very far advanced.
Those who would be masters of a New World Order do not desire a powerful nation of sovereign people to exist. Only by reducing the nations to poverty and impotence can a strong central world government arise to dominate all the nations of the world. America must fall. Her vaunted economy must collapse. Her citizens must lose all control over the direction of her government. The stage has been set. The tragedy is about to be played out.
More importantly, however, God has judged that it is no longer in the interests of His people for America to remain free and prosperous. America has become as Sodom in her abundance and ease.
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it.
The affluence and liberty of America has led to great sin. America is a nation of idolaters, fornicators, and covetous men and women. Violence has increased in her streets. Theft is rampant. Tens of millions of babies have been murdered as her citizens have wanted to commit fornication and adultery without consequences. Yet, like David when he tried to hide his sin of adultery by murdering the husband of Bathsheba, the consequences of America’s sexual sins will now be far, far worse for she has slain babies to avoid the consequences of her actions.
The church has not been able to stand against the tidal wave of moral decay for she has abandoned the disciples’ cross. The people of God have diminished in salt and light by failing to count the cost of following Christ. The church has embraced a false gospel of selfish pursuit when she was called to live a life of abandonment to the will and pleasure of God. God will now bring a stern correction to His people. It is His mercy that leads Him to do so. A multitude will fall away into greater apostasy and abominations, but a remnant will be purged, purified and refined through the trials that await them.
As I look at all the energy being expended by the massed weight of political forces, and the continuous drumbeat of the media, to pass a massive restructuring of the healthcare system, I have wondered what it is all about. I have no doubt that there is no benevolent motive guiding this massive push. The citizens of the nation do not want what is being foisted on them. Yet it is being rammed down their throats by men and women who demurely testify that they are seeking only the good of the nation.
A few weeks ago, Evan Bayh III, senator from Indiana, made a surprise announcement that he would not run for Congress again in 2010. He had won his seat by record percentages in the last two elections, but he said he would not run again. His reason? He said that serving in Congress was very dissatisfying to him personally. Great pressure had come to bear on him since he spoke critically of his own party when the Democrats lost the Senatorial seat held by Ted Kennedy in a special election. Bayh stated:
“There’s going to be a tendency on the part of our people to be in denial about all this,” Bayh told ABC News, but “if you lose Massachusetts and that’s not a wake-up call, there’s no hope of waking up...”
“It’s why moderates and independents even in a state as Democratic as Massachusetts just aren’t buying our message,” he said. “They just don’t believe the answers we are currently proposing are solving their problems. That’s something that has to be corrected.”
Here is one man, and a Democrat to boot, who has stated the truth. The people of America do not want what is being forced upon them. The great effort to pass healthcare reform is undeniable. Bribery, extortion, blackmail, and every possible means are being used to pass this sweeping legislation.
Eric Massa - Just Vote “No” and Out You Go!
Just recently the Democrats forced one of their own members to resign. Eric Massa said the Democrats forced him out because he was a “no” vote on the healthcare bill.
Massa had the temerity to oppose his own party when he determined that this legislation was not in the benefit of the people who elected him. As a result, the Democrats launched an ethics investigation against one of their own. The charges truly sound trivial in comparison to much of the debauchery that fills the lives of elected representatives of America. Someone is playing hardball on this issue, and you can rest assured that this legislation will not be set aside until it is passed.
Recently the news has reported that pages were added to the Healthcare Reform Bill that would designate hundreds of millions of dollars to go to Louisiana. This insured that congressmen opposed to the bill in that state would vote Yes. It has been perjoratively called “The Lousiana Purchase.” Then there is “The Cornhusker Kickback” to insure that legislators from Nebraska voted in favor. And Utah Congressman Jim Matheson’s brother was appointed to a Federal judgeship by Obama. Matheson, who was a firm "no" vote, has changed his opposition to the bill to “undecided” since this occurred. It is also reported that congressman Allan Mollohan had a longstanding FBI investigation into past actions canceled when he came on board with healthcare reform.
The past few days a news item has been receiving great attention. It has been revealed that the Democrats who are in control of both the Senate and the House are going to change the rules for the House of Representatives to vote on the healthcare reform bill approved by the Senate. Rather than requiring 60% approval, which they cannot get, they will only need a simple majority. Considering all the votes bought, the Congressmen who have been run off, and the changes in the way the vote will take place, it appears likely that the healthcare reform bill will pass soon.
Questions remain. “Why is this such a critical piece of legislation to those who are the true powers behind the scene?” “What are the puppet masters of the New World Order seeking to accomplish?” “What dire consequences await the citizens of America?”
The one overarching desire of those who desire to be masters of the world is control over all mankind. They want all men to march in tune to their drumbeat. There can be no true freedom in the New World Order. All thought, all will, all action, must be bent before Lucifer who is the Great Architect of this World Order.
There is included in the healthcare reform bill a foundation for a control so far reaching that it is staggering to the imagination. The healthcare reform bill includes legislation that would make the IRS the overseer of compliance. Any American who does not have health insurance can be fined $500, and undoubtedly the penalties for non-participation will quickly become more severe.
The USA Today article mentions the IRS being used by the government as an agent for “social engineering.” Yet the article does not mention the true scope of what they will be doing. Like every government program, it will expand rapidly.
Once the government becomes the overseer of all healthcare, and makes it a crime to not participate, their draconian rule will be observed in many intrusions into the private lives of its citizens. The government will be able to assess penalties for people smoking, being overweight, having existing medical conditions. They will be able to refuse healthcare to pregnant mothers whose babies are deemed to be at risk of disease, or birth defect. They can demand that children be aborted based upon risk assessment, and on projections of lifelong healthcare costs.
Care for the elderly will be rationed, and yoking healthcare to the IRS is merely prophetic of the direction all things will go. The level of healthcare one will receive will be linked to their productivity in the same way that Social Security benefits today are linked to the amount one paid in during their working years. People who are non-producers, or classified as “useless eaters” as the National Socialist Party of Germany (Nazis) declared the physically and mentally handicapped, the infirm, and uneducated, will be placed into the lowest tier of support, or shunted off to die.
At the same time that this legislation is being put forth, Barack Obama is being advised of a new Immigration Reform initiative led by Senators Chuck Schumer of N.Y. and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. This legislation includes provision for a National ID card, which is being touted as the solution to insure that all workers in America are legal workers. Without the ID card one would not be permitted to work.
The hour is quickly coming when one will not be able to buy, sell, work, receive healthcare, bank, or participate in society apart from the approval of that government which is being established. It will not be the government of the founding fathers of America. The Constitution will be laid to rest.
People of God, I am not being sensationalistic in making these statements. The Scriptures prophesy that these days are coming. It is appointed to us to live in such times.
In preparation for these days the Father led me back in the 1990s to begin withdrawing from dependence upon this world system. He led me to cancel my health insurance in the mid 1990s. He directed me to leave my job in 1999, and to look to Him to provide for all the needs of my family of four. Without a job, without healthcare, being committed to following the Father wherever He would lead, and doing whatever He would have me do, I found that He was faithful to provide for us. I did not tell my needs to others. I did not solicit funds when I had a pressing need. I was led of the Spirit to cast all my cares upon the Father.
I Peter 5:7
Casting all your anxiety upon Him, because He cares for you.
"For this reason I say to you, do not be anxious for your life, as to what you shall eat , or what you shall drink; nor for your body, as to what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single cubit to his life's span? And why are you anxious about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory did not clothe himself like one of these. But if God so arrays the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more do so for you, O men of little faith? Do not be anxious then, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'With what shall we clothe ourselves?' For all these things the Gentiles eagerly seek; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not be anxious for tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
I have walked this path for a number of years now. I am at this very day engaged in fulfilling that work the Father has called me to do. I daily look to Him to provide my need. I have no employment, no healthcare, yet my Father cares for me. He has told me that He has led me down this path as a pioneer and an explorer that I might encourage His saints in coming days when many more will be led to embrace a similar walk.
You will see shortly that all believers are brought to a place of decision. They will either have to embrace the beast system of this present world, or they will have to cast all over into the hands of God. To follow Christ will require a practical daily faith. Fears will have to be overcome. The opposition of friends, family, and the majority of those in the church will have to be withstood while pressing on faithfully down the path God has appointed to you.
It has been a costly walk for me. You can read about it in the book Evidence of Things Unseen.
At the same time, it has been a time of great fellowship with the Father, and much spiritual growth. Yahweh will soon lead many into times of trials, and to face difficulties, that they might be perfected as sons and daughters. You have before you also the leaders of this nation who promise to lead you to peace and safety and provision. Heed the words of God.
There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it.”
People of God, there will be no lack of voices, even among ministers in the church, who will tell you that embracing the beast system of this world government is God’s will for you. They will quote Scriptures, and speak with reasonable voices. They will truly appear as “servants of righteousness.” It will only be by being attentive to that still small voice of the Spirit, and refusing to judge by appearances, that you will be able to escape the snare of the Devil.
I have never counseled any man to live the way I have lived. I have told no man to quit his job, or to cancel his health insurance. I did not do these things myself until the Spirit directed me to do so. What I do urge all the saints of Christ to do is to seek the mind of the Spirit of God in all things. Where He leads, go. What He speaks, do. This will be your true path to peace, safety and provision in these days.
May you be blessed with peace and understanding.
P.O. Box 5546
Macon, GA 31208"
If there is no abortion funding in the current bill, what is the pro-death mob so upset about?"
Posted by: Ed at March 20, 2010 12:26 AM
This. If the Stupak amendment is just an extra piece of legislation that wouldn't change anything, then why resist it so hard?Posted by: Keli Hu at March 20, 2010 7:29 AM
I am opposed to this peice of proposed legislation on many levels but it is factually wrong to single out the Stupak and his fellow pro-life democRATS for failure of this bill to gain enought votes to pass the house without circumventing the constitution, not to mention the will of the american people.
The 'dead babies r us' folks are the ones standing in the way of the passage of B.O.'s hellth scare.
But they cannot have their dead baby and eat it too.
Even the wisdom of a king Solomon could not extricate from their vile folly.
A live baby would lead them all if they would listen.
"I call heaven and earth to witness this day against you that I have set before you life and death, the blessings and the curses; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live"...
(HAL, it is not a threat. It is a promise, from the ONE who keeps all HIS words. You would only view it as a threat if you choose 'death'. If you choose 'death', then fear has already been your constant companion and choosing death will only increase his fellowship with you.)
yor bro ken
Of course I would 'CREDIT' the pro life democRATS for 'BLOCKING' passage of B.O. hellth scare.
However, the 'die hard dead babies r us' democRATS, who place more value on killing than healing, are threatening to vote against B.O. hellth scare or abstain [a concept which is anaethma to them] if the proposal contains prohibitions agains using federal funds for elective abortions.
If the 'choose death' progressive/liberal humanist democRATS 'succeed' and B.O. hellth scare passes with provisions for federal funding of abortion then they will have earned some kind of 'wage' to paid in full.........posthumously.
For the wages of sin is death.
[Eternal death, not just assuming room temperature after their merciless heart stops beating. (One could argue the 'dead babies r us' folks have been brain dead for years.)]
The good news is that God's desire is that none should perish.
So there is hope for a live dog......democRAT.
I will pray for them just as soon as I have finished praying individually for each one of the prenatal children who will die in America today.
Just crunched the numbers.
I do not have enough waking hours in my day to even pray for all the babies, much less the 'dead babies r us' folks.
I am going to have to impelement some sort of intercessory triage.
You 'dead babies r us' folks will have to rely on God's grace.
yor bro kenPosted by: kbhvac at March 20, 2010 9:21 AM