Stupak has 8 no's; "hopeful" about executive order caves

UPDATE, 5:56p:

From DC House insider:

The Executive Order does not apply the principles of the Hyde amendment. Instead it reiterates the Senate language that allows subsidies for insurance policies that cover abortion by collecting a special abortion fee from every person who enrolls in a plan that covers abortion. This approach is contrary to the clear language of the Hyde amendment which states, no taxpayer funds "shall be expended for health benefits coverage that includes coverage of abortion."

By providing abortion coverage to millions of Americans who currently do not have such coverage, the pending legislation will contribute to an increase in the number of abortions. Even Alan Guttmacher Institute research demonstrates that when abortion funding is made available the number of abortions increase by roughly 25% for the covered population.

Even if the text of the Executive Order were to effectively apply the Hyde amendment to the Senate health care bill (which it does not), it would still be ineffective because Executive Orders cannot overturn statutory law. Even pro-abortion Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) speaking on this abortion Executive Order has said that it cannot change the law....

UDPATE 5:45p: On the other hand, NOW's statement entitled, "President Obama breaks faith with women":

NOW logo.gif

President Obama campaigned as a pro-choice president, but his actions today suggest that his commitment to reproductive health care is shaky at best. Contrary to language in the draft of the executive order and repeated assertions in the news, the Hyde Amendment is not settled law - it is an illegitimate tack-on to an annual must-pass appropriations bill. NOW has a longstanding objection to Hyde and, in fact, was looking forward to working with this president and Congress to bring an end to these restrictions. We see now that we have our work cut out for us far beyond what we ever anticipated. The message we have received today is that it is acceptable to negotiate health care on the backs of women, and we couldn't disagree more.

UPDATE, 5:40p: Referring to 5:15p update, this tweet from Townhall's John Hawkins: "Clue #1 for Stupak that his piece of paper means nothing:The head of pro-choice caucus in cong. approved it." So any pro-abort anger may be feigned.

UPDATE, 5:15p: Consolation: At least some pro-aborts are apparently "livid," having not been showing the executive order's language before Stupak's press conference. There is concern that "the intent of the order is to go further than Hyde." They may be blowing smoke.

UDPATE, 5p: My comment: It is what it is. I'm heartsick. But the Lord knows. This episode is just another reminder we cannot put our hope in any person. I worked my church's tech booth this weekend so was blessed to hear 8 times this reminder from a beloved hymn: "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness." Amen.

LifeNews.com has pro-life/family group responses, unanimously condemning Stupak's decision.

UPDATE, 4:51p: Have been celebrating my mom's 75th birthday with family. So here's a recap of the past 4.5 hours: Maybe, maybe not, yes, no, yes. Stupak's press conference...

UPDATE 12:25p: CNN's Evan Glass just tweeted, "Stupak: 'I'm still a no // There is no deal yet. It's a work in progress. Maybe we'll get there today.'" Here's reconfirmation from a CNN producer who spoke directly with Stupak....

[HT: Steve Ertelt at LifeNews.com]

UPDATE, 12:22p: Stupak canceled a 12:30p EST press conference. There's still hope.

UPDATE, 12:14p: The Daily Caller is reporting protesters are converging at and near the Capitol.

UPDATE, 12:05p: MSNBC is reporting Stupak is a "yes." National Review Online has a preliminary copy of Obama's executive order, "a dangerous, non-binding show," according to Kathryn Lopez.

UPATE, 10:48a: Whether this executive order would be binding or not, pro-aborts don't like it. Still can't believe they'd let Obama/Dems do this.

UPDATE, 10:35a: Twitter update: "Stupak headed to Capitol to look at executive order. Leaning yes? 'We'll see.'"

This from Politics Daily:

House Democrats have scheduled a 12:30 meeting of their caucus in advance of the 1:00 House debate on the bill, and Stupak said he hopes to be able to share the language of a possible executive order with his fellow Democrats at the time.
10:25a: Bart Stupak appeared on MSNBC this morning. He said there are still 8 committed "no" votes to healthcare in his bloc pending resolution of the abortion issue.

Stupak indicated he's hopeful an executive order will take care of their concerns, although the USCCB all the pro-life/family groups he has previously said have his ear have indicated it wouldn't do the trick.

Still trying to figure out what's going on. I can't imagine pro-aborts would agree to Obama writing the Hyde Amendment, i.e., the Stupak Amendment, into the healthcare bill, if that's even legally binding.

Stupak seemed to say this is almost a done deal, and he hopes for a healthcare vote today...



Comments:

This may be a dumb question, but what's to prevent Obama from simply recinding this Order once the HRC is signed into law?

Posted by: Keli Hu at March 21, 2010 10:59 AM


I've wondered about that too, Keli. I think it's more likely that PBHO will craft something he knows is non-binding so that both can save face and give the appearance of prolifers and the administration accomodating each other. Stupak hasn't given him the problems he could have if he were fighting other anti-life provisions in the bill. It's only a few lines he's quibbling with. This is Obama's chance to hand proaborts what they want even if they feign outrage, Stupak gets to impose his vision of government-run health care on the people, and it all has the charade of addressing prolife concerns.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 21, 2010 11:41 AM


Reuters is also reporting Stupak is now a yes. I was waiting for something more credible than the Obama Channel.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 21, 2010 12:20 PM



If Obama has to shake hands with the devil in hell to get this he will. He will tell Stupak anything he wants to hear while all the while giving a wink and a nod to the PAs. I predict Stupak will cave, and this "executive order" is just face saving. Stupak is first and foremost a Democrat, I've said it all along and I do now.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 12:24 PM



I remember when the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which gave President Lyndon Johnson unlimited power to conduct the Vietnam War, was passed. Like this HC farce, deceit was employed. Some question if the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" even occurred. The "incident" was enough however to generate the hysteria and momentum that LBJ needed and wanted to conduct this war as he saw fit. An enthusiastic congress and senate gave him the power he sought. Certainly victory in Vietnam was now imminent! The power was now his to conduct the Vietnam War as he saw fit! There is a famous picture of one of the two senators who opposed this resolution warning LBJ he would rue the day this resolution passed.

Anyone familiar with history will know this war eventually destroyed LBJ's presidency, tore the country apart, and eventually destroyed LBJ.

Oh what an example of the gods punishing man by answering their prayers!

Be very careful what you wish for Obama and the Democrats! The gods might answer your prayers.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 12:44 PM


We need this voted down, not an executive order. Because they refused to put this language into the bill specifically that no plans in the givernement exchange can offer abortion services. They don't offer abortion services in the current government plan so anything short of that would NOT be the status quo. Congressman Stupak, Nancy Pelosi already called your bluff yesterday and now you need to show her you are a man of principle and call her bluff, vote NO!

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 12:52 PM



In retospect Obama's election, while devastating to us at the time, is responsible for the implosion of the Democrat Party, the Tea Party movement, and the likelihood that Democrats will be decimated this November.

Would McCain's election last November have resulted in this?

Maybe we better be careful what WE wish for.

We may be grateful down the road this passed and the Democrats may rue the day.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 12:52 PM


Thanks for the updates, Jill!

Mary, I hope Stupak proves you wrong :). I want desperately to believe that there is one "Mr. Smith" in Washington. Naive, I know.

Posted by: Nerina at March 21, 2010 12:59 PM


pray people. Pray to the Holy Spirit to guide your representatives.

Posted by: angel at March 21, 2010 1:01 PM


I just called Stupak's office and told him to vote "no" on this bill. The staffer said, "I'll pass that on to the congressman." Apparently he's taking a count of yes v. no. Call 1-202-225-4735!

Posted by: Nerina at March 21, 2010 1:08 PM


Nerina,

So do I.

I also take hope in the example of LBJ. Sometimes the very thing one fights for and wants so desperately that they will stop at nothing to get it, is what will destroy them in the end.

I think Obama will "win" this round like LBJ "won" his. Like LBJ, Obama will pay a terrible price.

The Gulf of Tonkin resolution only heralded the start of LBJ's downfall. This HC debacle may well do the same for Obama and the Democrats.

I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a purpose that we all too seldom do not see. Good reason to always be careful what you wish for!

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 1:10 PM


According to an email I just got from the SBA List, "An executive order can be rescinded any time. President Obama could reverse it next week, next month, or next year. Should another pro-abortion president be elected in the future, it could be rescinded on inauguration day." So the answer to my question is, nothing is preventing Obama from rescinding it as soon as he signs HCR into law. Not unless Stupak has some really powerful political blackmail or something similar with which to keep him in line, and I just can't imagine that being the case. This isn't a solution, it's a placation.

Posted by: Keli Hu at March 21, 2010 1:12 PM


Hi Keli,

I got the same e-mail. This is nothing but a wink and a nod to PA groups and a face saving out for Stupak.

Like I said, Obama would shake hands with the devil in hell to pass this. Why would he have any qualms about conning Stupak?

Hey Obama, remember what happened to LBJ?

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 1:18 PM


Stupak should not accept the executive order. Obama has been very clever in his wording choice - he can say the federal government won't pay for abortion, and yet send money to pay for insurance that does cover abortion (which will happen now). Or he can say the federal government won't pay for abortions, and send appropriations instead to the states who will 'decide as they wish' and fund abortions.

Yes - the executive order can be rescinded at any time. What we need is codified law to state that the U.S. Federal Government won't fund abortions, directly or indirectly in any form, and that the government won't support agencies that do (read Planned Parenthood).

Don't buy the clever wording.

Pray Pray Pray.

I just called Stupak's line - you can't talk to anyone or leave a message since the mail box is too full.

But God's Grace can intervene and open hearts to moral, just and life-affirming law and health care.

God have mercy on our country.

Thank you for keeping us updated through this whole mess.

Posted by: joyfromillinois at March 21, 2010 1:32 PM



I just checked realclearpolitics.com. As of 2:20PM ET Stupak's office strongly denies any deal concerning himself or any other anti-abortion Democrats.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 2:09 PM


Pray to our Holy Virgin Mary in Jesus Christ our Lords Name. We need your Help here!

Posted by: Praxedes at March 21, 2010 2:10 PM


Mary,

I agree that this bill may be Obama's undoing eventually. I hate how the media is equating "health care reform" with the Civil Rights movement. They make it seem as if anyone opposed to this particular legislation must be a right-wing racist troglodyte. The irony being, of course, that democrats were the ones against desegregation.

I've been reading alot about the history of fascism recently and I think it perfectly reasonable to assert that Obama's ideology is deeply rooted in the progressivist/fascist movements of the early 1900s. He is also strongly influenced by the "New Left" of the 1960s.

Posted by: Nerina at March 21, 2010 2:18 PM


Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.

We are met on a great battle-field of that war.

We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live.

It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate...we can not consecrate...we can not hallow this ground.

The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract.

The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here.

It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced.

It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the
great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------

You and I have a rendezvous with destiny.

We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness.

If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here.

We did all that could be done.

Ronald Reagan

Posted by: kbhvac at March 21, 2010 2:29 PM


I'm disturbed that these people are working on a Sunday when this could just as easily be handled on Monday. Sunday is the Lord's day", a day of rest. I don't recall this happening in past administrations. Maybe my memory is short... Obviously the reason they're not going home is because the Dems want to wear everyone down to get the votes they need. I hope faithful Catholics had time to go to mass early this morning.

Posted by: Janet at March 21, 2010 2:32 PM


Check out Drudgereport.com. Looks like Senate Republicans found another wrinkle for the Democrats

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 2:37 PM


Hi Nerina,

Any number of movements (women's, gays) have been compared to the civil rights movement over the decades, which to me insults and trivializes the long and brutal struggle of black Americans.

There is absolutely no question at all Obama is a leftist. Only the constraints of the American political system keep him from dictatorship and sometimes I think it barely manages. His desire to run our health care system is a power grab. You will find that under dictatorships, health care is seized and run by government along with the major industries and fianancial institutions. Sound familiar?

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 2:43 PM


Stupak caved. The Senate Republicans must get the Parliamentarian to enforce the rules and stop Wreckonciliation.

Posted by: Gerry at March 21, 2010 3:08 PM


Stupak is in - the bill passes.

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 3:12 PM


"This may be a dumb question, but what's to prevent Obama from simply recinding this Order once the HRC is signed into law?"

Posted by: Keli Hu at March 21, 2010 10:59 AM

Not a dumb question at all. More important now than ever to know the answer since Stupak appears to have caved... and the executive order will be signed after the house bill passes...

Posted by: Janet at March 21, 2010 3:14 PM


Excellent. Considering the majority of Americans vehemently oppose this bill and more states than not have either already passed through or are filing documents challenging the legality of the bill to prevent it from ever even being enacted there, I think it still will work out for the best.

Posted by: xalisae at March 21, 2010 3:20 PM



I hate to say I told you so but.....

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 3:28 PM


This board should be elated, don't you think Mary?

Think it says something about the abortion movement in the past year or so. The major political force within the Dems was not the pro-choice or public option crowd - it was the pro-life folks. Interesting development if folks stop pouting and start pondering and looking at it all.

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 3:32 PM


EGV,

I'm afraid I don't understand your point.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 3:38 PM


Ex-GOP, President Obama made a promise to Planned Parenthood to enact the most pro-choice laws and policies. His base is not angry about this executive order. Why? Because it cannot be enacted! The courts have ruled many times that executive orders cannot enact or rescind laws! Yet this is what our President is trying to do. The executive branch CANNOT do what the legislative branch does. This is why we have separation of powers through the three branches.

It is an absolute lie that this executive order will prevent federal funding for abortions because it cannot do it. Furthermore, President Obama can undo his own executive order after the healthcare bill becomes law.

This is a trick that's as see through as grandma's underpants! It's disgusting, really. Politics as usual. So much for the hope and change...

Posted by: segamon at March 21, 2010 3:44 PM


EGV,
Most here have not lost sight that this is a monster of a bill that our children and grand-children will be paying for. It is going to grow government bureaucracy at the expense of individual liberties. Whether it will truly eliminate federal funding of abortion is yet to be seen. I can't imagine that pro-aborts won't figure out a way to get around it. The executive order could be repealed too.We shall see.

Posted by: Janet at March 21, 2010 3:48 PM


Hi Segamon,

Does anyone really believe Stupak was blissfully ignorant of this fact?

Personally I think a very long and drawn out battle is only starting. "Success" can have one very huge price tag.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 3:49 PM


So, with that "executive order", all the abortionist flunky "doctors" will have to do to get our taxes to pay for the abortions will be to certify (as they do today) that all the abortions will be for "health of mother" and no one will object. Isn't that right? There's no way that Planned Parenthood servant, Obama, doesn't envision that scenario, with PP in agreement.

Stupak just authorized the status quo and more - and with our money. He's a hypocrit if he mentions one more time that he's "pro-life".

Posted by: observer at March 21, 2010 3:52 PM


Janet: there was a special session called by Bush 5 years ago to try to save the life of Terri Schindler. It was called the Palm Sunday compromise I think......unfortunately, it didn't help very much since she was murdered a week later by starvation.


This bill is wrong on so many accounts. The elderly and disabled will be denied the care they deserve and need. We can't even trust the government with Social Security, how can we trust it with people's lives?!?!?!?!

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 3:56 PM


Mary,

I doubt that Bart Stupak is ignorant of the facts. I'm sure that he knows just how flimsy such an executive order is.

Besides, all the executive order really says is "you guys out there... yea, make sure that the law is followed which we *believe* means no federal funding for abortion."

This is very frustrating. I'm looking forward to the 2010 midterm elections.

Posted by: segamon at March 21, 2010 3:58 PM


Segamon and Mary,

Stupak must have known that an executive order can be repealed. All I had to do was google it.
Something's a foot.... What are the odds that Stupak and the House Dems might still vote "no" ? Wouldn't that be interesting ?

Posted by: Janet at March 21, 2010 3:59 PM


Everyone,

Check out Drudgereport. There may be a senate snafu. I think Obama and his minions may have bought themselves one huge mess.


Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 4:00 PM


Hi Janet,

I only wish. Stupak knows as well as anyone an executive order isn't worth wiping his fanny with.
He was looking for an out and got it. He wanted to vote for this bill.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 4:03 PM


Are you hoping that Congress overrides the order by passing something that conflicts with it?

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 4:12 PM


Stupak is a liar too. All I have left is my Church. And I will not ever pay a penny into Obamacare because they would not yield and prevent funds from paying for abortion. We are no longer a nation under God, but rather subjects of a Godless nation.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 4:13 PM


And the Domocrats will now go on record as a Godless party.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 4:16 PM


Sorry, should have said the Dumbocrats or the Demoncrats

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 4:18 PM


Ex-GOP, was your comment directed towards me?

Regardless, I do not want the congress/courts/president to override/deem unconstitutional/rescind the executive order. In the end, thgouh, it doesn't matter one way or the other.

Even without the executive order being overridden/deemed unconstitutional/rescinded, it doesn't do much of anything. It just says "okay dudes, be nice and follow what the bill says which I *believe* doesn't allow federal funding for abortions" (although it does).

Posted by: segamon at March 21, 2010 4:19 PM


EGV,

I've been keeping an eye on Drudge and it looks like this bill has a very drawn out battle ahead of it. The senate has found some kind of snafu and states are challenging this bill. Hopefully it will go into November. My grandmother always told me not to wish my life away but I anxiously await November.

Obama was supposed to have his agenda long enacted by now, after all didn't he have the house and senate as well as a slavish media and adoring public? This has dragged out longer than anticipated and the fight isn't over yet.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 4:21 PM


Truth - no, I was talking to Mary (the post above mine) - sorry for not clarifying.

I find it slightly ironic that the thing of God we should have done, in your mind, was keep the status quo of tens of millions of people without health care coverage. Yes, that is so Christian!

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 4:21 PM


we are no longer WE THE PEOPLE if this happens. We the citizens are the BOSSES of these congressmen and women and senators. We should have the power to FIRE (impeach) anyone who thinks we are stupid enough to not know this funds abortion! Or that it puts grandma at risk or cousin "john" who has cerebral palsy or aunt "jane" who has downs, all at risk. Plus, its over 2000 pages long, who has time to read this? 72 hours is NOT enough!

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 4:22 PM


RINO,
Christians say NO to this health insurance becuase they would feel dirty getting health care on the backs of bloodied children. If you were truly Christian you would feel dirty too.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 4:28 PM


Ex-GOP,

Did you read my post @ 3:48? My being a Christian does not require me to vote for this legislation and it's wrong of you to throw that in the face of Christians. God gave us brains to make wise decisions and as I mentioned, I belive this is not an economically feasible bill. I would donate in a heartbeat if I had a neighbor who couldn't afford a necessary surgery (in fact I have). These guys in DC need to go back to the drawing board and create a concise plan to help all Americans get the healthcare they need.

Posted by: Janet at March 21, 2010 4:30 PM


To clarify. If you were Christian you would feel dirty getting health care if you had to participate in the slaughter of millions of innocent children in order to get health care.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 4:32 PM


Truth - you seem to be getting into the dangerous theological territory of saying that certain beliefs are more important than the belief in Jesus Christ. You've now set a contingency on being a "real" Christian. There a verse you'd like to site on that?

Truth - have you called your insurance company to ask if they have any plans that pay for abortion? Maybe you are on one. The GOP was up until about six months ago - yes, there plan covered abortion. My guess is that your specific plan, or ones offered by that company, cover abortion. Or do you have a non-taxed cafeteria plan? Yes those generally cover abortions as well.

I don't know if you are a Christian or not - I don't judge people - I let Christ do that. As for me? I don't need your help in deciding which side of the fence I fall on.

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 4:33 PM


The Dumbocrats are now the enemy...one and all. Mary, I don't mind admitting to you that you were right.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 4:37 PM


Stupak made a deal with the devil.

Posted by: Jasper at March 21, 2010 4:42 PM


The president won't hold up his end of the bargain (because he's a LIAR and doesn't tell the truth). Stupak gave in and sold his soul. He'll be replaced in November as will the other so called "pro life" democrats. They're democrats first, pro life 2nd. They're not pro life first or they would NEVER give in!

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 4:44 PM


ts,

Don't despair. I've been on this planet long enough to know we are often better off not getting what we wished for. There is a reason we do not immediately see.

Its like the drunk who hits bottom. It may be at this point he finally looks at his life and decides he has to change, and fast. I don't think our country would be experiencing this conservative reemergence had Obama not been elected.

The elections in NJ, Virginia, and Massachusetts are just a start. Thankfully we have the electoral process we have.

As I pointed out previously, LBJ and both the House and Senate were overjoyed when the Gulf of Tonkin resolution was passed. What a major victory. LBJ got exactly what he wanted. LBJ could conduct the war as he sees fit and be victorious! I remember it well. I also remember him leaving the presidency a broken man.

Obama and his minions may celebrate now, but they may have also plunked themselves into a quagmire. This ain't over yet.
Like LBJ, Obama may one day curse the day this passed the HOuse.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 4:46 PM


Why just assume that President Obama is looking for any chance to fund abortion? No he isn't- he has nothing to gain from funding abortions. Pro-choice people would still vote for him, especially if it were between him and a conservative like Sarah Palin running for office- the pro-choice people won't just walk out since many pro-choice people agree with his other policies. And only pro-choice advocates really support funding abortion. Most people are, in general, pro-choice in the sense that they 'think it's bad but should be legal.' Most people aren't advocates of abortion.

Most people don't support public funding of abortion. Obama would actually lose support by rescinding the order once the bill passes (squee!), so I highly doubt that he'll just randomly say, "Never mind!"

The reality is that President Obama wants universal healthcare and is probably pretty frustrated that people keep swearing that all that he wants to do is spread abortion when he would rather focus on the economy or health.

I know that you're all disappointed and I'm glad that you are able to express your opinions using words (I'm always happy to see people talking because the world today seems to be, "If you don't like it, blow something up"), but I'm happy that this is passing. The first year of Obama's presidency left me thinking, "That's it?" But now my faith is restored. I could send Obama a thank you card. :)

Posted by: Vannah at March 21, 2010 4:55 PM


Simple RINO,
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[b] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22: 36-40

And follow it up with:
If you wish to enter into life, keep my commandments Matthew 19:16-17

By facilitating abortion of others, you are not loving your neighbor as yourself and you are breaking the greatest commandment.

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12

RINO, You are dead to Jesus because Jesus reviles those who facilitate the murder of his creation in their mother's womb. You can't even answer a simple question about when human life begins and that makes it difficult for you to understand the consequences of your deeds when it comes to the sanctity of life. Maybe you are afraid to answer. Scripture also says:

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling"
Phil:2:12

And, lucky for you I do not judge your soul, that is for Jesus to do on judgement day. I merely profess that faith as Jesus taught us by his life and his words. I do not pretend I can save you cause I cannot. But I can speak the truth about Christian faith and keep you from spreading falsehoods and hypocrisy about Jesus. Not to condemn you, but to bring you to awareness and repentence cause scripture also teaches us:

"It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin."
Luke 17:2


Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 5:03 PM


Richard Doerflinger of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops previously condemned the executive order idea.

"The statutory mandate construed by the courts would override any executive order or regulation. This is the unanimous view of our legal advisors and of the experts we have consulted on abortion jurisprudence. Only a change in the law enacted by Congress, not an executive order, can begin to address this very serious problem in the legislation," he explained.

www.lifenews.com/nat6166.html

Posted by: Lauren at March 21, 2010 5:09 PM


The first year of Obama's presidency left me thinking, "That's it?" But now my faith is restored. I could send Obama a thank you card. :)

Posted by: Vannah at March 21, 2010 4:55 PM
Ignorance is bliss huh Vannah. Maybe you don't see the Planned Parenthood abortuaries going up throughout the US. Each time you walk into an Obamacare clinic you get your care on the backs of dead babies. Doesn't that make you feel dirty?

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 5:09 PM


Truth - did you not see my earlier post when I answered you question with "at conception???"

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 5:10 PM


Hi Vannah,

The majority of the American people didn't want his health care bill either. Obama twisted arms, lied, bribed, and whatever else he had to do to get it passed.

Obama doesn't give two hoots in hell what anyone wants. He supports abortion. Why would he have any qualms about "spreading" it.

Vannah, Obama is an ideologue. He is a sociopath/narcissist. These people are rigid in their ideology and quest for power. They do not take "no" for an answer. The ends justifies the means. Rev. Wright is a problem, toss him under the bus. Stupak wants a worthless piece of paper. Give it to him. Shaking hands with the devil in hell will get him what he wants, what's the fastest way there?

They are master manipulators expecially in getting people like you to see them as basically real nice guys with only the best intentions.

Don't be fooled for a minute Vannah.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 5:11 PM


Vannah: The EO is just a ploy to get Stupak to vote for death care. He wants to force tax payers to pay for abortion. The health care bill is NOT going to help ANYONE. Grandma and Grandpa: nope. Your best friend's disabled sister: nope. And pregnant women being visited? What's up with that? Why are maternity visits necessary? It won't be for routine ultrasound checkups or for checking the heart beat, that's for sure! This bill is a monstrosity and it will ruin America. America died the day that it voted in this socialist/fascist/communist into office.

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 5:12 PM


LOL,

I can't believe this. Looks like Obama is in deep doo-doo with the PC congressional caucus. He didn't show them the executive order. Check out firedoglake.com.

Oh what a tangled web we weave......

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 5:14 PM


Stupak at a townhall meeting in Cheboygan, MI in 2009. Here he made it clear that he was going to vote for taxpayer funded abortion. Did not realise that his comments were being recorded.Cheboygan

Posted by: John at March 21, 2010 5:29 PM


truthseeker @ 5:03,

Perfect choice of scripture quotes.
Amen.

Posted by: Janet at March 21, 2010 5:32 PM


God is in control, though Godless men conspire. His will unfolds though mortal minds are sometimes left to doubt. His ways are higher than our ways, so even through the fire, take heart and know. God is in control.

Posted by: carla Author Profile Page at March 21, 2010 5:34 PM


Hi Carla,

Already Obama is in a quagmire. He lifts up one leg but he's still up to his hinder and stuck in mud.

This may all be for a higher purpose as you say. Life has certainly taught me to be thankful I didn't always get what I wished for.

Do you have any idea how many women I still thank to this day for "stealing" old boyfriends! :)

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 5:41 PM


John @ 5:29,

Thanks for the heads up on the Stupak video. Wow.

I love the quote from Henry Hyde that you posted on your blog. God bless all who fight for LIFE!

Posted by: Janet at March 21, 2010 5:43 PM


I think people here are being way too harsh on Rep. Stupak. He has been fighting valiantly for almost a year on this issue and taken tremendous abuse over it. There's only so much one person can do. Even if he managed to get the Democrats in Congress to put the Hyde language in the bill, the Senate would have thrown it out.

I'm sure he saw his coalition melting away, and figured the bill was going to pass anyway even without his vote. I'm amazed that he was still acting tough enough and confident enough to get the President to step in and do this much. (That's supreme bluffing power for you). No, the EO is not enough, and it's mostly symbolic. But it does have a good side.

For one thing, the President most likely won't rescind this executive order right away. He would look too much like the liar and betrayer he really is if he does. I think he won't do anything until November. By then, the American people may will (we hope) have thrown the bums out of Congress and put people in who will repeal o this terrible bill and craft some more sensible health care legislation.

For another thing the EO is making pro-aborts furious. I wonder if Planned Parenthood, now feeling betrayed, won't issue a Supreme Court challenge against the order. That will tie the whole question up in limbo for quite some time. PP and other pro-aborts going against the President in court -- that would be quite a sight.

I realize many people here hate the whole idea of the Democrat-type health care reform. But don't hate Stupak because he supports it. How about giving him some credit for what he actually has done? He has demonstrated that there are some Democrats willing to fight for life. And they are the Democrats who are going to be popular with their constituents. That's a good thing in the long run and could lead to breaking the stranglehold the pro-death movement has on the party. Our work should be in that direction, not in useless recriminations.

Posted by: Lori Pieper at March 21, 2010 5:49 PM


Hi JIll,

She knew of and approved this EO but its uncertain if she saw the language before it was issued. There was concern that it may go beyond Hyde.

Is this anger feigned? Why would it be, they won. If anything, they should be laughing their rears off.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 5:49 PM


Lori, Stupak knows full well that his compromise means absolutely nothing. Worse, it gives him and other "pro-life" democrats political coverage to vote for a very anti-life bill.

Sorry, I'm not going to give him a pass. A year of work means nothing now.

Posted by: Lauren at March 21, 2010 5:51 PM


@ Mary lol, I hear ya.

Yes it's hard to remember that God is in control at times like this.

It would seem that politicians just can't do the right thing. Power is just too too tempting.

Maybe civil war can right things. Is that what it will come to again? :(

It seems that God keeps giving America many chances to get it right. Likely because there are still so many good and holy people who are trying to live good lives.
How long before time is up? And God simply leaves us to our sins? I wonder.

Posted by: angel at March 21, 2010 5:51 PM


Lori,
Stupak and his group would have been better going down voting NO than compromising on the sanctity of life. There is no such thing as a pro-life Democrat.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 6:02 PM


Hi Angel,

Glad I could add a little lightheartedness.

How true, whether you have a religious perspective or not. Its just what I have observed in my extended lifetime.
People are often amazed that I take the attitude, "its for a reason", but all too often it is.

Already I'm seeing problems for Obama. States are rebelling, the Democrats are imploding, Republicans are winning, and his approval is in the toilet. I love it when he offers to campaign for Democrats. I'm sure they blanche but what can they say?

I'm convinced this HC battle, which will be ongoing, will only slow down the rest of Obama's destructive agenda, and that is a definite blessing. Soo, things do happen for a purpose and maybe we should be very careful what we wish for!

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 6:03 PM


Hi Jill,

It sure looks like women are furious at NOW and PP over this EO. Are they not aware that its worthless? If nothing else its creating a lot of dissension in the ranks. Obama can hardly tell them its a con job, that might make Stupak and co. rething their votes.

I told you folks, Obama only stepped into a quagmire. He's got everyone mad at him!

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 6:08 PM


Imagine a Democratic Congressman at a town hall meeting and a constituent asks them for support in bringing a State lawsuit against the mandate in the bill.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 6:09 PM


truthseeker: you are right! There really is NO SUCH THING as a PRO LIFE DEMOCRAT. An authentic pro life democrat would NEVER give in to ANYONE!

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 6:16 PM


We have the best health care system in the world. Why break it?

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 6:17 PM


truthseeker -

Thanks for the various pieces of conversation - but the thought of getting theological thoughts from you is a bit like asking my grandma to do my taxes. I think I'll pass.

You seem to believe Jesus white a white upper-class Republican. You and Pat Robertson can have a nice life together.

I'm going to go eat with my family - I'm sure that somehow equates to "facilitating abortions".

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 6:18 PM


If its not broke, don't fix it......


Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 6:20 PM


Liz - can you tell me a bit about the premiums you are paying and the coverage you have?

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 6:22 PM


There is no such thing as a pro-life Democrat. Posted by: truthseeker

Amen, TS. Stupak made it known he'd vote for the bill even if it had abortion funding. The bargaining chip he brought to the table on behalf of the unborn was a token.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 21, 2010 6:23 PM


Jill,

Maybe no one has told the PA constituency this EO is worthless. They are just reacting to the news. Let them, I think its great. If feigned anger generates real anger and feeling of betrayal, go for it.
Maybe NOW and co. would be better off just shutting up.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 6:23 PM


Thanks for the various pieces of conversation - but the thought of getting theological thoughts from you is a bit like asking my grandma to do my taxes. I think I'll pass.
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 6:18 PM
RINO,
It was you in your 4:33 post who asked for scriptures. I understand if you have no response to the scriptures I posted. But don't get mad at me for posting them; it is the scriptures I posted that condemn you, not me.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 6:35 PM


We have the best health care system in the world. Why break it?
Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 6:17 PM

If you build on its strengths, it's hard to make a case for single payer. If you can crash it and simultaneously malign it with propaganda, you can make a case for single payer. Obama and the progressives want single payer and have said it's a slow process to get there.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 21, 2010 6:37 PM



Well the lawsuits are already being drawn up by the states. These could tie things up for years.
Oh, and the senate has some serious issues with procedure that can bog things down.

Geez, wouldn't just letting insurance companies compete across state lines been a lot easier?

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 6:41 PM


Asitis: "Best healthcare in the world?"

Damn straight. Guess what, I don't have health insurance right now. Does that mean I'm going to die some horrible death? No. If I get injured the ambulance will come and I will get state of the art care. Will it cost a bundle? Yes. Is my life worth X amount of dollars? No.

Why not look at the ACTUAL care that people are getting rather than focusing on the number of uninsured? There are also plenty of people who DO NOT WANT health insurance.

I'm going to get health insurance very soon. I just got a job. But I'm not getting it through the company I now work for. I'm looking around for a HSA so that I can save my own damn money to pay for my own damn health care!

Improving the economy is improving the amount of people that have healthcare. Get people into jobs and then they will shop around for health insurance (or accept the one offerred to them at their work place). This is exactly what I'm doing. Where the heck is this "laser like focus on jobs" that President Obama mentioned? It's no where in sight.

Posted by: segamon at March 21, 2010 6:48 PM


"Lori, Stupak knows full well that his compromise means absolutely nothing."

So you can read minds, Lauren? Amazing. I sure can't.

My analysis wasn't based on such an iffy premise. I simply pointed out that getting this EO might do a bit more practical good than simply voting no would have. For one thing, it's already made some pro-aborts furious at the President, which can only be good.

I am not happy Stupak made this choice either. But until I've been in his shoes and seen the situation through his eyes, I'm not going to condemn him either.

Posted by: Lori Pieper at March 21, 2010 6:49 PM


Asistis,
I don't want phony people for friends. I want friends that I know I can count on when they are needed. Democrats are Pro-Life-IN-NAME-ONLY. These pro-life Dumbocrats would likely never have been elected in their districs if they hadn't feigned a pro-life position. I did not leave them, they left me when they decided to vote in favor of a law that creates an entitlement program that puts our government in the baby killing business.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 6:50 PM


Although I have family in Stupak's district, I will never spend another dime there I don't have to,and will even travel with energy bars in my luggage so I don't have to buy food when I visit.

And as for the troll's comment about how unfair it is that others don't have coverage as good as its own, we are supposed to take care of one another. That's the point of life on earth.

What is stopping you from donating to those you claim to care about from your own surplus, instead of killing them legislatively? Oh, but that would mean no more expensive cruises for you.

This is so sad. Instead of being angry, I am going to go try to read St Francis de Sales to calm down and remember that God's eternity is forever. He will somehow bring good from this evil, although I have to admit I can't see how.

Posted by: sabella at March 21, 2010 6:56 PM


I can't afford to wipe my ass. Can I get home health care twice a day to get somebody to wipe my ass too?

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 7:00 PM


truthseeker,

You can if you pay for it. ;)

Posted by: segamon at March 21, 2010 7:05 PM


Asitis: "I think everyone should have affordable health insurance. If that means that I have to pay more or get less, I am okay with that."

Yes, it does mean that you will have to get less. You're okay with it, but the majority of Americans are not.

Posted by: segamon at March 21, 2010 7:07 PM


Okay, fine then.

We need names on each and every one of these supposed "pro-life Democrats" that has caved. And having their names, we need local campaigns that keep this in everyone's minds. And I'm not just talking about TV commercials.

Local people need to put information on this under their flyers and signs, need to jam up their campaign Q&A sessions with heckling. Not only should we get mad, we should stay that way and make these people so unpopular that it is made clear we will no longer accept "pro-lifers" who do not vote that way. And we need to express that anger creatively, graphically, firmly, non-violently, and constantly.

If we do this--if we all do it--consistently, everywhere, this November won't just be a wash-out for the Democratic party. It will be a huge step towards filling Congress with pro-life legislators.

Posted by: Keli Hu at March 21, 2010 7:07 PM


This is so sad. Instead of being angry, I am going to go try to read St Francis de Sales to calm down and remember that God's eternity is forever. He will somehow bring good from this evil, although I have to admit I can't see how.
Posted by: sabella at March 21, 2010 6:56 PM

sabella remember God wins. Always. We will win. Just not right now. God wins the game in the end. People like Pelosi and Stupak make their choices. It's about powers and principalities.

as for the troll, she's the one who makes what, 1.1 million per year. If you are making 1.1 million in wages, you can bet you're cheating someone.

Perhaps A and her husband and her lovely boys would care to share their income with the people down the street. That I doubt very very much. :(

Mod's should remove her comments. She's a troll and she's been banned.

Posted by: angel at March 21, 2010 7:12 PM


and how many of those supposed 10s of millions that are uninsured could get insurance but are too lazy and expect the government to pay for EVERYTHING? Or how many of them are here illegally?

Common sense legislation is what's needed, not a 2000+ page monstrosity!

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 7:17 PM


@angel -- I hope you are right. Am feeling very discouraged and about to log off.

Only one bright spot - Karl Rove isn't one of my favorite people, but he said that all these extraordinary measures being taken to pass obamacare will make it that much easier to repeal when all the court challenges start. I hope he is right; he certainly understands the process better than I do.

If I can share what little I make, that troll could do the same (won't even use it's name). God Bless You and thanks for trying to make me feel better. Off to my library.

Posted by: sabella at March 21, 2010 7:24 PM


yes Liz
how many women who might have gone through with a pregnancy will now abort.
For shame.
And you can bet this is really a shot in the arm for PP. :(

Posted by: angel at March 21, 2010 7:28 PM


truth - and I see nothing in those scriptures that say that salvation requires voting for the correct political party instead of loving God and serving him.

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 7:37 PM


I bet there's no mention of pre-natal care coverage in the bill. Its 2000 pages long!

Planned Parenthood just LOOOVES this bill and when they LOOOVE something you know there's TAX PAYER FUNDED abortion or something similar in there for them, like "community health centers" that they get to RUN (which means poor women put on the poison pill or maybe even talked into sterilization). Don't forget they could sneak into elementary schools and give your child condoms w/o your knowledge!


In Germany, the Nazi regime made homeschooling illegal. How long until its illegal for Americans to be able to choose how to educate their own children?

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 7:53 PM


Liz - that vote is going to be next week I hear - making homeschooling illegal. It's a rider on a bigger bill to turn Nebraska into a giant lake in the middle of the country.

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 7:55 PM


RINO,
I'll try and make it simple and we will just look at one scripure here:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[b] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22: 36-40

Now follow this logic and tell me if it doesn't make sense.
1)You stated that you consider yourself to be pro-life.
2)You stated that you believe life begins at conception.
Therefore, if you followed Jesus' greatest commandment and loved your neighbor as yourself then you would not vote for pro-abort people.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 7:59 PM


How to destroy America:

1. Take God out of schools.
2. Make prayer in school illegal.
3. Ban the 10 commandments in government institutions.
4. Legalize abortion.
5. Feminize men.
6. Redefine marriage.
7. Promise a worry free life paid for by someone else.
8. Destroy free enterprise.
9. Promote consequence free behavior.
10. Demonize the rich or other class of people.
11. Muzzle the church via 501c3.
12. Weaken our armed forces.
13. Embolden our enemies.

Our country is very close to being destroyed from within.

Thanks Democrats and all that voted for them.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 21, 2010 8:01 PM


Oh dear, here we go again.

The GOP had control of the white house 20 of 28 years. Can you tell me the massive gains in abortion? What years did they propose and get close to passing a bill to outlaw abortion?

The GOP talks a good game when they need to - but what have they really done to end abortion?

So babies are my neighbors, but not uninsured people?

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 8:03 PM


Stupak is a liar; always has been, always will be:

After all, to be a Democrat requires one to be an anti-Christ.

http://www.tcunation.com/forum/topics/video-stupak-lying-all-along

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 21, 2010 8:05 PM


RINO,
Why are you so bitter. I thought you'd be happy this bill passed. Maybe you are striking out at people on this blog now cause you are finding out you not Christian? Don't shoot the messenger. You will not be held accountable for your past if you did not realize you were acting in un-Christian ways.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 8:07 PM


RINO,
The GOP didn't vote to pass the largest expansion of Planned Parenthood and aboruaries and funding of abortions since Roe V Wade though did they?

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 8:17 PM


truth - I am actually Obama himself - and have been bored and wanted to see what people said about me.

Seriously though, as a born-again Christian, I'm excited. For years I voted blindly for the GOP. They talked a great game on morality - but then I started to realize something. They'd rather cut taxes for the wealthiest folks then do anything about the poor. They'd rather bomb other countries than work to end abortion. They talk about fiscal discipline while passing massive tax cuts and Medicare expansions - and then saying "we don't worry about paying for things".

But then I woke up. A few books from great Christian leaders that explained that Jesus wasn't a Republican (nor was he a Democrat for that matter) - and that believing Jesus would be on one side of a party or another was bad theology and downright idolotry.

So I was able to step back. I hate abortion. So if the GOP isn't going to do anything on it, I figure I'll vote for a party that is going to help people who choose abortion - help them get insurance, help them make more money (remember,the GOP hates wage hikes), expand education.

Politicians are politicians. Some of them talk a good game and then try to pick up a gay lover in a Minnesota bathroom. Or some of them are top "moral" guys, and go on a hike in South America with girlfriends. Or some of them are Presidents who tell us one thing while sleeping with interns.

But God is God, and to think that he's a mere Republican or a Democrat is really short changing who God is. Tomorrow morning, this country will continue on. The sun will rise and the Son will still be in control.

I have no doubts of where I'm going when I die. Christ is first in my life - not a political party. My hope does not lie in mortals. My provisions are not found in bank accounts. Truth - I know you're trying to feel cute and smart, but really, I'm the last person you need to be worrying about.

But please pray for me, as I will pray for you. And remember to love - for they will know we are Christians by our love - not by our words, who we vote for, or cute little postings on a webpage.

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 21, 2010 8:19 PM


My rep is pro life. My rep is Catholic, too. And he is also a father of FIVE daughters. He's a Republican, but I can count on him.

That can't be said for all reps. If someone campaigns as pro life, they must be authentic. Pro Life means pro ALL human life, from conception to Natural Death. Nebraska right to life learned the sad lesson after DEMOCRAT Senator Ben Nelson's betrayal in December. :(


Lord, forgive us and our nation....

Posted by: LizFromNebraska at March 21, 2010 8:24 PM


You gotta love the unmitigated militant gall of NOW.

It wasn't good enough that they got 100% of what they wanted in writing, but since Obama did actually use the words "F--- You" to prolifers, they are offended and aggrieved.

Posted by: hippie at March 21, 2010 8:25 PM


The 2nd vote tonight is for including the Stupak language in the bill, is he going to vote against his own language?

Posted by: Jasper at March 21, 2010 8:27 PM


Hey guys, on a positive note, there is still much to be hopeful about. You can go to RepealIt.org to find candidates running on a repeal platform and current legislators who have pledged to support repeal efforts. We need to hold their feet to the fire. You can also go to the 10th Amendment Center to see if your state has a nullification effort to get involved with.

Tomorrow morning, this country will continue on.
Yes, one day closer to the first Tuesday in November :-D One day closer to electing lawmakers to hold hearings on the corruption behind this bill.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 21, 2010 8:35 PM


Phil,

You're right on brother.

It's no coincidence that America has no clearly indentifiable role in the Book of Revelation.

Are you familiar with the vision God gave Shelley Hundley of the International House of Prayer several years ago? It perfectly compliments the Perfect Storm word given to John Paul Jackson.

Put on your Life Jackets folks, very stormy weather just ahead.

He loves us too much to allow us to continue in our sin, rebellion and wickedness, without correcting us.

He wants us to seperate ourselves from the world and seek to know Him and walk with Him.

(To hear Shelley recount her vision, follow this link , then select "Thursday Evening 1 of 2, March 18th, 2010" and go to about the 1:38 minute mark)

Posted by: Ed at March 21, 2010 8:35 PM


Actually Ed:

America is very likely the Beast of Revelation.

Read "The Day that Changed America".

Call 1-866-998-4136 to order.

Why do I say this? Every prophecy about the Beast fits America to a tee, the most prominent being its recovery from a head wound, i.e., Pearl Harbor.

Also, it makes sense that Satan would focus his efforts on destroying us since we are now the "Salt and Light" of the world.

Obama is merely a pawn in Satan's control.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 21, 2010 8:47 PM


RINO,
Your moniker reveals a lot of what drives you. You were let down by the GOP so you gave up on your ideals and get even with them by supporting the Dumbocrats. And now you have voted for genocide, deficit spending 1000% of any previous president, war will come but you'll have an incompetent commander and chief.

I was disillusioned at times in many of the same ways you were but I have not given up on my ideals. When looking at Dumbocrats vs. Republicans I look at the life issue cause it is fundamental to a persons disposition. When I saw what a pro-abort Obama was I knew I could not trust him as a person. Perhaps you really did not know when you voted for him. But I stand by my statement that a Christian can not know this about Obama and support his agenda, and his party's agenda, to subsidize poor mother's to kill their babies in the womb. You, as a Christian who now realizes this, must act accordingly in the future cause you can't hide from God.

Posted by: truthseeker at March 21, 2010 8:47 PM


Ex GOP Voter,

You and I could be friends. :)

Posted by: Vannah at March 21, 2010 8:53 PM


I haven't studied Revelations in depth so that symbolism is a little bit of a stretch for me. In other words I can't agree or disagree with your interpretation.

However, my spirit definitely bears witness with the words received by Jackson and Hundley.

Fasten your seat belts folks.

Posted by: Ed at March 21, 2010 8:55 PM


EGV,

Did Jesus ever demand that the Roman gov't care for the poor or that each of us care for our brothers?

How have the Democrats helped those who seek abortions do other than get abortions?

Oh yes morality. A particular politician who impregnates his documentary maker while his wife battles terminal cancer. A congress that welcomed back a congressman who had a gay relationship with an underage intern. A senator who left a woman to die in a submerged car. Yes, EGV, let's discuss morality.

Tax cuts increase employment. Who do you think does the employing EGV? Yes, its the eeeeeevil rich people. Oprah Winfrey has what 12 homes? You think she might, just might, hire people to take care of these homes? Gee, she creates jobs!

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 8:56 PM


Democrats have enslved the poor by teaching them to depend on the government.

We are to be dependent on God alone.

Ex-GOP, your theology is bad theology.

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 21, 2010 9:00 PM


Ed:

My daughter went to a IHOP in Kansas City 2 years ago. It was aswsome. He future husband is going to be a youth pastor.

I met Ed during Len Munsil's campaign in 2006.
Hey, my son Steve is now the 4th and 5th grade Pastor at Christ Church of the Valley in Peoria, AZ.

"In the last days, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh"...amen and amen.

Hang on brother, we're going home......

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 21, 2010 9:22 PM


Everywhere Ed are similar propehcies being proclaimed. The Lord is telling His Bride to get ready.

Here's an e-mail from a broterh I deeply repsoect:

Ecclesiastes 1:9
That which has been is that which will be, and that which has been done is that which will be done. So, there is nothing new under the sun.

This post is not so much a look back at the past as it is a forecast of the very near future. Undoubtedly, what is shared here will be disturbing to many, but it is offered with good intent. The people of God need to recognize the hour they live in.

There are certain patterns that play out in history. Things which have been often reoccur in a new generation. Atrocities and large scale suffering are very much cyclical for the nature of Adamic man, and of Satan, has not changed in the past 6,000 years. Neither has the fact changed that mankind can only be perfected through suffering. This fact was declared to our very first forebears in the Garden of Eden after they sinned.

Genesis 3:16
To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth. In pain you shall bring forth children; Yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."

I have shared before that these words of God to Eve are a great parable. Eve is a type of the church, which is the Bride of Christ. Christ is called “the second Adam” and “the last Adam” (I Corinthians 15:45). Even as the first Adam had a bride who could only bring forth children in his image through intense suffering, so too does the last Adam have a Bride. She too can only bring forth sons in His image through suffering. We find that Christ used this very analogy when speaking to His disciples.

John 16:20-21
Most assuredly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; and you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy. A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a man has been born into the world.

People of God, the Spirit has been testifying through many signs that the hour is at hand for the church to go through her birth pangs. Recently we witnessed one of the most powerful earthquakes ever recorded. It occurred in the nation of Chile. This earthquake measured 8.8 on the Richter scale. The number 8 speaks of new beginnings, and is a number relating to Christ.

This earthquake occurred near the city of Concepcion, and this too is part of the parable that is to be understood. Conception is a word that is linked to the subject of pregnancy and birth. An interesting note on this particular earthquake is that Concepcion has as a sister city the town of Bethlehem in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_twin_towns_and_sister_cities_in_the_Palestinian_territories

It was in Bethlehem that Christ was born, and it is in this last hour that sons must come forth in the image of Christ. Even as a woman knows birthpangs before she brings forth a son, so too must the church go through birthpangs for her sons to be manifest.

Romans 8:22-23
For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

An earthquake is a shadow and type of a woman experiencing birth pangs. Man’s body was formed of the dust of the earth. An earthquake is a great contraction and upheaval of the earth. This great earthquake symbolizes that which is at hand. Another parallel we see at this time to the birth of Christ is that 2010 is a census year. Not only is it a census year in the United States, but it is the year of the World Census being conducted under the auspices of the United Nations.

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/sources/census/2010_PHC/default.htm

For those interested in numbers, there are 222 countries/areas participating in the World Census, with 11 countries having no census scheduled. See graphic below:

144 added to 78 equals 222. America is also in the second year of the 111th Congress, and each Congress runs for 2 years. It is America’s 222nd year. What is the significance of this number? Two speaks of a second event. Three is a number of fulness and completion. Repeating the number two three times speaks of a second event that brings things to fulness and completion.

We read in Scriptures that there was a world census in the year that Christ was born.

Luke 2:1-4
Now it came about in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth. This was the first census taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. And all were proceeding to register for the census, everyone to his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem...

2010 is a world census year. One of the largest earthquakes ever recorded occurs near Concepcion, which is a sister city of Bethlehem. We are seeing a cycle repeated at this hour. It will be a traumatic time, a time of great upheaval in the earth. All those who desire to see the will of Yahweh fulfilled must stand in anticipation of this day. Do you know where the last 222 occurs in Scripture? Consider the significance of it.

Revelation 22:20
He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Yahshua.

This is the next to the last verse of the Bible, and the time is near for the fulfilling of all things. Though great tribulation must be passed through, it will all be forgotten when it is observed that a man child has been born, that sons have come forth in the image of Christ.

Romans 8:29
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren...

I want to mention in this post some thoughts that relate to this cycle of tribulation and birth. In the late 1930s and first half of the 1940s great tribulation was seen in Europe as Hitler launched the “final solution” which was the attempted extermination of certain people groups, foremost of which were the Jewish people. It is estimated that 6 million Jews died in the concentration camps established by the National Socialist Party of Germany.

This experience was one of the most horrible periods of human history, yet it will be eclipsed by a far greater time of tribulation that is to come. What the world witnessed in the 1940s was the affliction of the natural seed of Abraham. What we will see in days ahead is the affliction of the spiritual seed of Abraham. From a focus on the Jews, the focus will shift to Christians. The pattern is first the natural, then the spiritual.

I Corinthians 15:46
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

One result of the holocaust was the birth of the Jewish nation, which had not existed for nearly 2,000 years. The coming holocaust will also result in the appearance of a people of God in the earth. They will be known, where they have formerly been unknown. The coming days could well be described by the following words of the apostle Paul:

Romans 8:18-19
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed in us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.

The revealing of the sons of God will only come through great tribulation. Out of a time of darkness will come great light.

Isaiah 60:1-3
"Arise, shine; for your light has come, and the glory of Yahweh has risen upon you. For behold, darkness will cover the earth, and deep darkness the peoples; But Yahweh will rise upon you, and His glory will appear upon you. And nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.”

Even as Israel arose as a nation out of the horror of the holocaust, so too will a body of mature sons of Christ, adorned with His glory, arise out of the tribulation of the days we are entering into.

This morning I considered another parallel to the suffering of the natural seed of Abraham, and the days at hand. A sister sent me a link to the following post on the Unleavened Bread Ministry website:

http://www.unleavenedbreadministries.org/?page=2010

The article speaks of the technology being promoted by IBM to track all men and women. IBM has supported and partnered with the manufacturers of the Verichip system that I reported on recently. Verichip is now called PostiveID.

At the above link you will find more information on the plans for the implementation of this chip in the United States (to be used similarly in other nations). Also, there is some very sobering news on IBM’s involvement in the NAZI party, as the head of IBM met with Adolph Hitler and established offices even in the concentration camps to track Jews and other “undesirables.” I encourage you to read the article, and watch the video, which I am also including here.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4040930009676933149&hl=en#

I want to clarify a few things before closing this post. There will be other people who are targeted for persecution in this last hour aside from Christians. This was also the pattern for the holocaust of the 1940s. Jews shared the concentration camps with gypsies, Poles, Christians, and other people groups. Neither do I believe the Jews have seen the worst of their suffering. I believe that Art Katz has a very sound teaching on this subject. You can find it at the following link:

http://artkatzministries.org/the-time-of-jacobs-trouble/

Yet, I believe that Satan’s greatest wrath in these last days will be focused upon the spiritual seed of Christ.

Revelation 12:11-13
"And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even to death. For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time." And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the man child.

The woman who gives birth to the man child is the church. Even as Eve was the bride of Adam and she brought forth a male child in Adam’s image, so too is the Church the Bride of Christ. Out of her will come a man child in Christ’s image.

We read that Herod sought to kill the child born to Mary, but God warned Joseph in a dream to flee to Egypt where a place had been prepared for them. So too will the Father have a place prepared for the woman who brings forth the man child in this last hour. Great wrath will be poured out on that part of the body of Christ that remains.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Yahshua.

We see that in the time of Christ’s birth Herod slew all the children in Bethlehem and its surrounding area. It was a time of great slaughter. Satan’s focus in this last day will be upon destroying the seed of Christ, but God will help them.

I share these things to demonstrate again that the hour is very late. We are at the end of the age. I have no predictions on when things will occur. I do believe that things will move quickly, and will accelerate in the days ahead. Do we not see great changes coming to the nations at this time? Did not Barack Obama campaign on a theme of “Change”? Yet the change he will bring is not the change for which people were hoping.

It is a season to be watchful and waiting. It is an hour to walk daily by the leading of the Spirit. It is not a time to be pursuing worldly goals, or engaging in activities arising from the soul of man.

Matthew 24:37-42
"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, they were marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be... Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.”

Please note also that I have been spending much time getting the PARABLES BOOKSHELF newsletters prepared. I have sensed the leading of the Spirit in this work, and this is why I have not been posting many blogs in the past few weeks. I am still engaged in this work, and will be limited in my time available to answer e-mails and to post blogs for some more weeks. Please understand if I do not write a response back to every letter. I do read them all, and appreciate hearing from you.

As the Spirit prompts me, I will post writings to the Parables Blog. You can also access the newsletters for prisoners and for all others who want a printed copy of the books and teachings I have posted. There are 44 issues now online. They are available at the following link:

http://www.heart4god.ws/bookshelf/index.html

May you be blessed with peace and understanding in these days.

Heart4God Website: http://www.heart4god.ws
Parables Blog: http://www.parablesblog.blogspot.com

Mailing Address:
Joseph Herrin
P.O. Box 5546
Macon, GA 31208

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 21, 2010 9:41 PM


Anyone who spends any time in prayer and knows Christ intimately will be in one accord with other believers. The children of God will never be decieved.

I cannot believe that anyone who is truly a Christian would not be able to see what a Great Evil is headed our way in the form of this 'Hellth Care' scam.

Posted by: Heather M at March 21, 2010 9:42 PM


so it is written. So it is done. 219 votes.

Posted by: Hal at March 21, 2010 9:51 PM


Thanks Phil. I like what your friend says there and I'll dig a little deeper when I get a little more time.

When you said you met an "Ed" during someone's 2006 campaign, I'm not sure if you think that was me. We've never met, I live up in Michigan.

We'll meet one day though.

I believe you posted one time that you have a son that attended the Air Force Academy. I have a son at West Point.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement and God bless!

Posted by: Ed at March 21, 2010 9:55 PM


so it is written. So it is done. 219 votes.
Posted by: Hal at March 21, 2010 9:51 PM

And so it shall be challenged :) I am not in the least discouraged but feeling very energized and motivated to fight for repeal!

Posted by: Fed Up at March 21, 2010 9:58 PM


Hi Fed UP,

He who laughs last laughs best. In my lifetime I have seen more than one political "victory" turn into a curse. I'm convinced Obama has just jumped into a quagmire. Already states are talking of filing lawsuits.
When the gods want to punish man, they answer their prayers....

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 10:04 PM


never trust a demoncrap

Posted by: Jasper at March 21, 2010 10:12 PM


Jake,

Try to get some sleep. In my lifetime I have seen more than one political "victory" turn into a curse. President Lyndon Johnson's presidency was destroyed by just such a "victory", but I'm sure you are far too young to remember.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 10:25 PM


Mary,
Nah, I think I will stay up and enjoy the evening!!! Thanks for your concern though.

Posted by: Jake at March 21, 2010 10:28 PM


Jake,

Anytime. Just remember that he/she who laughs last laughs best.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 10:30 PM


I am deeply saddened by the politics, maneuvering and game-playing.

All we have is prayer, our church, family and friends community. We must keep our eyes on Jesus - He is our strength, He is our joy, He is our everything.

We do not know what the Lord has planned, but His ways are not our ways, and we have to be faithful and TRUST.

Lord, help our country, help our people, help us to follow you. Night and day I cry to you Lord.

Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief.

We just have to be faithful. We know how this ends ultimately. It's the in-between part that tests our resolve, our faith, our hope.

If Israel can hope in the Lord during Egypt - and He answers with Moses, freedom and a homeland, we can do the same.

Lord, strengthen us. Lord, help us. Lord, thank you for all of our blessings - and there are still many.

My help is in the Lord.

Posted by: joyfromillinois at March 21, 2010 10:32 PM


I am deeply saddened by the politics, maneuvering and game-playing.

All we have is prayer, our church, family and friends community. We must keep our eyes on Jesus - He is our strength, He is our joy, He is our everything.

We do not know what the Lord has planned, but His ways are not our ways, and we have to be faithful and TRUST.

Lord, help our country, help our people, help us to follow you. Night and day I cry to you Lord.

Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief.

We just have to be faithful. We know how this ends ultimately. It's the in-between part that tests our resolve, our faith, our hope.

If Israel can hope in the Lord during Egypt - and He answers with Moses, freedom and a homeland, we can do the same.

Lord, strengthen us. Lord, help us. Lord, thank you for all of our blessings - and there are still many.

My help is in the Lord.

Posted by: joyfromillinois at March 21, 2010 10:47 PM


I'm convinced Obama has just jumped into a quagmire.

Hi Mary. I think "quagmire" will turn out to be an understatement. Purging moderates from Congress by making them walk the plank in November isn't going to help him unless the country is ready to elect the ultra-lefties that Soros and ilk will run in their places. I don't see that happening any time soon. Only massive election fraud would bring that about.

Joy, please don't be discouraged. That's what the Dems want you to feel.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 21, 2010 11:10 PM


Hi FedUP,

I posted on another thread that I look into that evil smile of Obama's and realize this is a man oblivious to how he is loathed and how quickly a "victory" can degenerate into a curse, as I am convinced this will. He need only look at his predecessor Lyndon Johnson as an example of a man destroyed by "victory".
I can't explain it FedUp, I just look at him and see it coming. A man who has yet to discover how the gods punish men by answering their prayers.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 11:21 PM


FedUp,

Did I not predict long before now that Stupak would cave? I looked at the man's face and knew it, in fact I was just waiting. I have that same sense when I see Obama and that smile of his. This man has no clue what is gonna hit him.

Posted by: Mary at March 21, 2010 11:26 PM


and how quickly a "victory" can degenerate into a curse, as I am convinced this will

Me too, Mary. This law has 3 years to blow up in his face. I think he'll rue the day he spurned the Republicans' advice to go the route of incremental reform, which would have let him tie enactment, implementation, and enforcement together in a series of steps. Now he's got health care workers and the public looking for ways to fight something he can't enforce or quickly implement. I'm not sure Alinksy is smiling on him tonight.

Did I not predict long before now that Stupak would cave?

Yep, you did. His willingness to allow other anti-life provisions in the bill to go unchallenged bothered me. It puzzled me that prolifers here put so much faith in him, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt because I am new to the prolife side and don't know all the players.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 22, 2010 12:13 AM


Hey Ed:

I meant to say I met Lou Engle when I was campaigning with Len Munsil.

Have you ever viewed this video by Lou on the "Doctrine of the Shedding of Innocent Blood"?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3722098690652929884#

Posted by: Phil Schembri is HisMan at March 22, 2010 2:20 AM


If anybody is going to say I have bad theology, I'm glad it is Phil - seeing that shortly before my post, he posted:

"After all, to be a Democrat requires one to be an anti-Christ."

Yes Phil - that is rock solid theology from you!

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 22, 2010 6:28 AM


Mary - I sure hope that there are some state challenges, and that the GOP runs to try to repeal this. The only thing I can really think of (and have read about) that could close the enthusiasm gap between now and November is a big push for the GOP to take away rights from Americans.

And yes, I thought about how I phrased it - if you remember back in the Clintoncare years, they talked about how it needed to be stopped because once it was in place, it would be a political disaster to take it away. I think the same will apply here - again, just an opinion I've read.

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 22, 2010 6:33 AM


EGV,

What rights could the GOP possibly take from Americans?

It was Obama and the Democrats who gave the American people the middle finger, in case you have forgotten.

Interesting analysis this morning on yahoo. Turns out what I predicted may be coming true. "Victory" may indeed come with a very heavy price tag for Obama and the Democrats. Well, wouldn't be the first time I have seen that in my lifetime, as I have pointed out.

Posted by: Mary at March 22, 2010 7:12 AM


Phil,

No I hadn't seen it. Thanks for the link.

His keynote address at OneThing this year was great too.

Mary,

I believe you are absolutely right that like the election of BO to office, the passage of Death Care will galvanize and embolden our side to take this fight to another level.

Like Jill and Carla have said, God is still in control. He loves America but despises our sin which, unless we repent, will be the downfall of our once Great Nation.

The battle lines are being drawn ever more clearly. God has begun a new Great Awakening. His people are being refreshed in His Love, growing in a healthy Fear of God causing us to depart from evil, and evil men are growing worse and worse.

We must keep an eternal perspective. As we continue to battle and fight for Life and Truth and Righteousness, we must not get discouraged by the ebbs and flows of the War or any apparent "losses".

Ultimately, we are battling for the souls of men and women, that they would turn from their wickedness and serve the One True God, the Father in Heaven, and His Son, Jesus Christ.

When bills like Death Care get passed, it just shows that people will worship the god of their choosing.

God will let us do what we want.

His Judgment Day is coming.

We just need to be faithful to do what God has called us to do and help gather in the souls the Father has given us. Like Jesus said, "Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled." Jn 17:12

What a glorious time to be alive! God is pouring out His Spirit on all flesh, we get to fight and battle and give the devil a black eye, we get to bring souls into the Kingdom of God...

and soon we'll be going home.

Posted by: Ed at March 22, 2010 8:47 AM


big push for the GOP to take away rights from Americans.
Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 22, 2010 6:33 AM

I thought you were a Christian, EGV. You view rights as coming from government and not coming from God? Interesting. What government can grant, it can take away. Obamacare is a withdrawal of freedom to make our own decisons. I can oppose it in perfectly good conscience.

Posted by: Fed Up at March 22, 2010 3:35 PM


Clarification - there's several articles on this out there now, including a good one on CNN from a Republican. The Republicans have to toe the line well on this. If their main line between now and November is about repealing the bill, then, well, I'll leave it to Donald Frum:

"More relevantly: Do Republicans write a one-sentence bill declaring that the whole thing is repealed? Will they vote to reopen the "doughnut" hole for prescription drugs for seniors? To allow health insurers to deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions? To kick millions of people off Medicaid?"

It will be interesting to see how the next group of months play out. I was liking the trend of Paul Ryan and seeing the GOP with actual ideas. Now they appear to be leaning the route of the "party of no" again. Only time will tell on who wins.

Posted by: Ex-GOP Voter at March 22, 2010 7:56 PM